Jocko Podcast: Underground #192

Addressing Evil In The World With Kids

Date: December 1, 2025
Host: Jocko Willink
Guest: Echo Charles

Overview

In this episode, Jocko Willink and Echo Charles tackle challenging questions from listeners about raising children in a world where both profanity and evil exist. Drawing from personal anecdotes and their experiences as parents and leaders, they discuss the delicate balance between shielding kids and preparing them for harsh realities. The main focus revolves around how to approach swearing and the concept of evil with children, exploring growth, exposure, and responsible communication.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Swearing Around and By Kids

• Both Jocko and Echo share their approaches to swear word usage with their own children.
• Jocko's Rule:
  • "I didn't swear in front of my kids and I actually didn't swear really in front of my wife." (01:01)
  • Swore extensively in the military, but intentionally did not make it normal around family.
  • Now, with adult children, he swears more freely.
• Advice: Don't overreact if kids experiment with swearing; recognize it's not optimal communication, but also don't make it glamorous or a big rebellion.
  • "They just need to recognize that it's not a good look. Right. It's not a good way to gain respect." (02:51)
  • Occasional use for emphasis is acknowledged but shouldn’t be default behavior.
• Echo reflects on times he felt swearing was over-normalized in his upbringing and how that affected adult behavior.
  • "I wish it was less normalized for me...my default was like, you kind of only swear under certain circumstances." (12:42)

2. Introducing the Concept of Evil to Children

• Gradual desensitization/exposure is key: Start with smaller, more graspable evils, then build to larger, harder-to-comprehend realities.
  • "I think it's just a slow exposure to reality...you kind of start off with lesser evil." (03:22)
• Exposure therapy: Allow them to process unsettling realities over time rather than all at once.
  • "It's wrong to not let them understand that these things are in the world. But it's also wrong to expose them at a young age when they can't really comprehend it." (04:29)
• Personal Anecdote: Jocko’s son saw a drug-addicted man arrested early in the morning.
  • "My son...he's like, dad, what is going on with that guy? And I said, that guy's on drugs. That's what drugs does to you. That left a mark." (04:56)

3. Movies as Vessels for Exposure (Rated R/Scary Content)

• Both hosts agree: It’s not about the age, but the content and the child’s sensitivity.
  • "[With] movies...it totally depends on the movie." (05:54, Echo)
• Caution with horror vs. action/gore—violent but fictional violence may be less harmful than psychological horror.
  • Echo: "If I show him...Friday the 13th or something like this, it'll mess with him, you know?...But then some movies with jokes or stylized violence, he's fine." (06:03)
  • Jocko: "We watched The Exorcist when I was a kid, which was horrific...But I think you can utilize movies as an introduction to things." (08:06)
• Gradual progression from fictional to factual: Start with fiction, move to reality-based stories, then documentaries.
  • "You can show kids movies...they're fictional and you can say, hey, look, this isn't real, but this does happen. And then you can get...move to movies that are based on reality, and then...to a documentary." (07:09)

4. Fear, Vulnerability & Protection

• Recognize that kids are physically and psychologically more vulnerable.
  • Jocko shares about his friend’s nightmares of an "Uncle Fester" type—”even if you’re strong, the idea of a greater, unstoppable force is terrifying, and for kids, almost everyone is bigger and stronger." (09:53)
• Reinforces that shielding kids from everything is as harmful as overexposing them.

5. Normalization and Social Impacts of Swearing

• Echo shares a story about accidentally swearing in a social context, which led to awkwardness.
  • "[Swearing] kind of came out real naturally, you know, like almost like a default...shoot, maybe swearing was normalized a little bit too much." (11:32)
• Emphasizes the importance of kids understanding context and appropriateness.

6. Parenting Takeaways

• Both hosts conclude: err on the side of less swearing in front of kids, but don’t act as if it is a catastrophic event if they do.
  • "If there's a song going on and they're swearing in it, [my kids] kind of look at me like, oh, that was crazy, you know, or whatever." (13:47)
• The goal is to help kids navigate the world—one that contains both bad language and genuine evil—without being naïve or overwhelmed.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jocko on Swearing and Communication:
  "If you have to swear all the time, it’s...there’s better ways to get things done. And I would err on the side of not swearing, but...I don’t make a huge deal out of it." (02:29)

• On Gradual Exposure to Evil:
  "You have to do this over time, where they can understand and they're not overwhelmed by it." (04:18)

• On Movies as Teaching Tools:
  "You can show kids movies...they're fictional and you can say, hey, look, this isn't real, but this does happen." (07:09, Jocko)

• On Unprocessed Childhood Fear:
  "If you’re a kid, pretty much everyone’s bigger and stronger than you, so it’s pretty horrifying." (10:18, Jocko)

• Echo on Adult Swearing Defaults:
  "I wish it was less normalized for me, actually...if my default was no swearing...then I wouldn't have to endure that, you know?" (12:45, Echo)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:26 – Listener question: swearing and teaching kids about evil
• 01:01 – 02:51 – Jocko on swearing policy at home and with kids
• 03:22 – 04:29 – Gradual exposure to reality and evil
• 04:56 – Camping/drugs story and teaching moments
• 05:54 – 07:28 – Rated R movies, content vs. age, scary vs. silly exposure
• 08:06 – 09:53 – How movies and nightmares affect children, personal fears
• 11:32 – 13:04 – Echo’s story of social swearing and effects of normalization
• 13:47 – Kids' reactions to swearing in music/social situations

Final Takeaway

Jocko and Echo advocate for balanced, intentional parenting: gradual exposure to the world's darker sides, mindful modeling of language, and honest, controlled conversations. Shielding children completely is unrealistic, but guided preparation and an awareness of context make for resilient, thoughtful adults.