538: The Legendary Speech on How Leaders Should Lead. Major C.A. Bach Back, 1917.

Summary

Jocko Podcast 538: The Legendary Speech on How Leaders Should Lead — Major C.A. Bach, 1917

Release Date: April 29, 2026
Host(s): Jocko Willink & Echo Charles
Theme: Timeless principles of leadership as distilled from Major Christian Albert Bach’s famous 1917 speech, and how those lessons translate to military and civilian leadership today.

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Jocko and Echo discuss the historic leadership speech delivered by Major C.A. Bach to newly commissioned U.S. Army officers in 1917. Jocko reads and analyzes the speech, pausing to reflect on its core tenets—discipline, example, respect, self-sacrifice, confidence, moral ascendancy—and connecting these themes to his own military experience and broader life.

The discussion is rich in practical insights, blending centuries-old wisdom with modern, real-world leadership experience—emphasizing that while technology and environments change, human nature (and thus, true leadership) remains constant.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction to Major C.A. Bach and His Context

[00:00–07:56]

• Major C.A. Bach’s biography: born 1870, combat veteran (Spanish-American/Philippine-American Wars, WW1), renowned for his enduring leadership speech at Fort Sheridan, 1917.
• The relevance and influence of his leadership principles across generations in the military and beyond.

Quote:
"When you join your organization, you will find there a willing body of men who ask from you nothing more than the qualities that will command their respect, their loyalty, and their obedience... They are perfectly ready and eager to follow you so long as you can convince them that you have these qualities."
—Major Bach (read by Jocko, [02:55])

2. Leadership vs. Authority: Earning Respect from Below

[07:57–12:32]

• A commission (or formal authority) does not equate to true leadership; it must be earned from those you lead.
• The pitfalls of “old-school” authoritarian leadership and the timeless necessity to win trust and respect from your team—not just superiors.
• Jocko and Echo recount their own “first-in-charge” moments, emphasizing the discomfort and responsibility of directing others.

Quote:
"You must make good not so much with the men over you as the men under you."
—Major Bach (read by Jocko, [08:38])

3. The Subtle Power of Example and Relationship Leadership

[12:32–18:44]

• Jocko’s leadership philosophy: avoid “bossing” people and instead foster relationships, encourage initiative, and solicit input (“What time do you guys think we should show up?”).
• The leader’s approach should prioritize the mission, using requests and team engagement over orders.
• The dangers of micro-management and the value of decentralized command.

Quote:
"Everything I did in the military is based on relationships and listening to people."
—Jocko [13:04]

4. Discipline vs. Enthusiasm & The Nature of Morale

[18:45–24:23]

• Non-leader officers lean on discipline by order; true leaders inspire “willing, unhesitating, unfaltering obedience and loyalty,” making soldiers follow them “to hell and back.”
• Key leadership attributes per Bach: self-confidence, moral ascendancy, self-sacrifice, paternalism, fairness, initiative, decision, dignity, courage.
• Confidence comes from knowledge and competence—real training yields real confidence.

Quote:
"Leadership not only demands, but receives the willing, unhesitating, unfaltering obedience and loyalty of other men… to follow their uncrowned king to hell and back."
—Major Bach (read by Jocko, [21:02])

5. The Balance of Self-Confidence vs. Arrogance

[24:24–31:08]

• Jocko points out that expecting leaders to “know more than the experts” (admin, logistics, marksmanship) is unrealistic; know the fundamentals thoroughly, but rely on your people’s expertise.
• Real confidence stems from preparation and hard work, not bluffing.
• Leaders should understand the levels above and below their own.

Quote:
"Men will not have confidence in an officer unless he knows his business… But to think you’re going to know more than your radio man? It ain’t happening."
—Jocko [28:15]

6. The Importance of Communication & Public Speaking

[31:09–33:41]

• The ability to articulate clearly and think logically is vital; this applies in parenting and life as well.
• Jocko and Echo discuss getting kids to present their arguments, fostering clear communication and confidence.

Quote:
"To speak clearly, one must think clearly, and clear, logical thinking expresses itself in definite, positive orders."
—Major Bach (read by Jocko, [31:45])

7. Setting the Bar: Moral Ascendancy Without Arrogance

[33:52–41:51]

• Leaders must hold themselves to a higher standard, not by feeling superior but by setting the example.
• The attitude: “Act accordingly.”
• The necessity of self-control—don’t let anger break your bearing.
• Disagreement with the old idea that a leader should “never apologize.” Jocko counters: everyone screws up; owning it builds trust.

Quote:
"If you make a mistake, apologize. Hey, I screwed this up."
—Jocko [37:43]

8. Cheerful Endurance and Demeanor Under Hardship

[38:44–41:44]

• Leaders should minimize the appearance and impact of hardship, lightening burdens through attitude.
• Jocko illustrates with personal stories about tough training and injuries, emphasizing minimizing one’s own troubles to boost morale.

Quote:
"Make light of your troubles, belittle your trials, and you will help vitally to build up within your organization an esprit whose value in time of stress cannot be measured."
—Major Bach (read by Jocko, [39:15])

9. Self-Sacrifice, Care for the Team, and Individualized Leadership

[46:46–54:34]

• The concept of “paternalism” (in its positive form): leaders must put the well-being of their people ahead of themselves.
• True team spirit (“esprit de corps”) comes when people begin voluntarily caring for their leaders.
• Not all personnel should be treated identically; punishment and reward must reflect individual personalities and circumstances.
• The harm of “collective punishment” and public humiliation, and its place only if used very carefully.

Quote:
"Take care of your people, and your people will take care of you."
—Jocko [53:09]

10. Recognition, Respect, and Leading by Example

[61:00–66:19]

• Leaders must be fair in both discipline and praise—credit must be given where due.
• Resentment festers if a leader is a “human hog” (taking all credit).
• Officers should treat soldiers with respect, never insult or demean them.
• Vision for “initiative and decision”—act decisively, based on preparation.

Quote:
"The man who always takes and never gives is not a leader. He is a parasite."
—Major Bach (read by Jocko, [61:43])

11. On Decision-Making in Crisis and Planning Ahead

[66:20–73:07]

• In crisis, any reasonable order is better than inaction; most quick decisions that seem “intuitive” are the result of preparation.
• Jocko elaborates on training leaders to function in confusion: “Mental training is necessary but so is experience—just like an arm bar, you have to actually do it.”
• Know your job (“one-and-a-half levels up and down”).

Quote:
"Any reasonable order in an emergency is better than no order. The situation is there, meet it."
—Major Bach (read by Jocko, [65:45])

12. Moral Courage, Accountability, and Integrity

[73:08–75:44]

• Moral courage: do the right thing, regardless of personal consequences, even when it means hard choices about friends or family.
• The harm of moral injury and the price of failing to act justly.

Quote:
"Take the blame if it results in disaster. Don’t try and shift it to a subordinate and make him the goat. That is a cowardly act."
—Major Bach (read by Jocko, [72:24])

13. Physical Courage vs. Bravery—and Some Wild Animal Stories

[75:54–90:12]

• Courage differs from mere “bravery;” it’s about understanding risk and moving forward despite fear.
• Entertaining asides: Jocko shares stories involving African wildlife (rhinos, elephants, giraffes) and the difference between knowing danger and being oblivious.
• Discussion of animal behavior and how “courage” sometimes hinges on ignorance (“I wasn’t tough, I was dumb”).

Quote:
"Courage, however, is that firmness of spirit, that moral backbone, which, while fully appreciating the danger involved, nevertheless goes on with the undertaking."
—Major Bach (read by Jocko, [91:32])

14. Final Principles: Know Your Men, Know Your Business, Know Yourself

[91:32–96:03]

• The speech’s famous conclusion—still echoed by the U.S. Army today.
• The universal truth that human nature is largely unchanged, so leadership fundamentals remain vital and relevant.

Quote:
"Know your men, know your business, know yourself."
—Major Bach (read by Jocko, [95:54])

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “You must make good not so much with the men over you as the men under you.” — Bach (Jocko, [08:38])
• "Your company will be the reflection of yourself. If you have a rotten company, it's because you are a rotten captain." — Bach (Jocko, [46:46])
• "The man who always takes and never gives is not a leader. He is a parasite." — Bach (Jocko, [61:43])
• "Make light of your troubles, belittle your trials, and you will help vitally to build up within your organization an esprit whose value in time of stress cannot be measured." — Bach (Jocko, [39:15])
• "Take care of your people, and your people will take care of you." — Jocko [53:09]
• "Take the blame if it results in disaster. Don’t try and shift it to a subordinate and make him the goat. That is a cowardly act." — Bach (Jocko, [72:24])
• "Know your men, know your business, know yourself." — Bach (Jocko, [95:54])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:00–07:56] — Introduction to Major C.A. Bach and context
• [07:57–12:32] — What makes a true leader? "Second lieutenant, that commission does not make you a leader"
• [12:32–18:44] — Jocko’s leadership style: Relationships > Orders
• [18:45–24:23] — Discipline, morale, and intrinsic loyalty
• [24:24–31:08] — Confidence from preparation, not bravado
• [31:09–33:41] — Communication as a leadership skill
• [33:52–41:51] — Self-control, humility, standards, and correcting old traditions
• [46:46–54:34] — Self-sacrifice & individualized leadership
• [61:00–66:19] — Recognition, respect, and leading by example
• [66:20–73:07] — Decision-making and handling chaos
• [73:08–75:44] — Moral courage and avoiding moral injury
• [75:54–90:12] — Courage vs. ignorance: animal encounters and more
• [91:32–96:03] — The enduring core: know your men, your business, yourself

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Final Takeaways

• True leadership comes from example, care for your people, self-control, and moral courage—not title, authority, or self-importance.
• Preparation—mental, physical, and moral—is the bedrock of confidence and effective leadership.
• Treat every team member as an individual; avoid one-size-fits-all discipline and give credit where due.
• Never stop learning about your job, your people, and yourself.
• Human nature doesn’t change. The same core leadership traits that worked in 1917 still matter today.

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In Jocko’s words:
"The people that you lead, they ask nothing more than that. So... go get after it."
—[closing words, 104:57]

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For anyone in a leadership role—military, business, parenting, or elsewhere—Major Bach’s lessons, as dissected by Jocko and Echo, offer a blueprint for building respect, trust, and resilient teams in any era.

Transcript

[A]

This is Jocko podcast number 538 with Echo, Charles and me, Jocko Willink. Good evening, echo. Good evening, Major Christian Albert Bach, more commonly referred to as Major C A Bach, born in 1870, entered the US army as a private in the 13th Minnesota Infantry A little later. By the time he deployed to the Philippines for combat in the Spanish American War in 1898, he was a sergeant by that time. Fought with the 13th Minnesota on the right flank of the US line during the Battle of Manila, August 13, and the right flank became the most contested terrain during that battle. 13th Minnesota suffered the highest casualty rate of any American unit in that battle. He continued to see combat in the Philippine American War for the next few years after that, where Sergeant Bach was promoted and commissioned to become a second lieutenant. And then after the Philippine American War, he transitioned to the regular army, served in the 7th Cav. By the time America entered World War I, Bach was a major. And based on his experience, his combat experience from fighting in the Philippines, he started off the war, World War I, training cadets that were to become officers and to go into company command. Eventually, he did join the fight overseas. He was awarded the Silver Star, the Army Distinguished Service Medal, and then after the war, he continued to serve in the army until he retired in 1934 after 36 years of service. He, after retiring, became a military historian. He came an author. He put out some books about the history of war. Specifically, I think his most popular book was about the 4th Division and its, and its achievements in World War I. But the most enduring thing that he passed on was not something actually from his books. It was a speech that he gave to graduating students that were about to become officers or go into command as officers. Company command in Fort Sheridan in 1917. So this is right before we got into World War I. He was training officers and he, he gave this speech about the principles that he had learned about leadership when he was in combat. So let's hear how Major C.A. bach told young leaders to lead. He says this. In a short time, each of you men will control the lives of a certain number of other men. You will have in your charge loyal but untrained citizens who look to you for instruction and guidance. Your word will be their law. Your most casual remark will be remembered. Your mannerisms will be aped. I always thought aped was like a modern, you know, slang word for imitating. That's what he means. Your mannerisms will be aped. Your clothing, your carriage, your vocabulary, your manner of command will be imitated. So he goes out of the gate, you're being watched. You're being watched. And the way that you behave is the way your team is going to behave. When you join your organization, you will find there a willing body of men who ask from you nothing more than the qualities that will command their respect, their loyalty, and their obedience. That's a very, very high bar. Hey, look. Nothing more than the qualities that command their respect, their loyalty, and their obedience. They are perfectly. And by the way, I forgot to say this. So this, this speech is something that you can find. You can find little pieces of the speech throughout all, all different areas of military leadership. It's all kind of infused in various organizations, especially in the army, but it's infused a little bit in the Air Force as well. So a lot of the things might sound a little bit familiar, and it's because they're rooted. Because this speech became very, very famous inside the military. They are perfectly ready and eager to follow you. So long as you can convince them that you have these qualities. Hey, they'll follow you as long as you're a badass. When the time comes that they are satisfied you do not possess them, you might as well kiss yourself goodbye. Your usefulness in that organization is at an end. From the standpoint of society, the world may be divided into leaders and followers. The professions have their leaders. The financial world has its leaders. In all this leadership, it is difficult, if not impossible, to separate the element of pure leadership, that selfish element of personal gain or advantage to the individual without which any leadership would lose its value. So what he's saying there is, you know, if you're a banker, there's a certain amount of, what do they call it, personal advantage, personal gain that you get by being a leader in a bank or in a financial industry or in a trade. You get a certain amount of gain from that. Then he says it is in military service only, where men freely sacrifice their lives for a faith, where men are willing to suffer and die for the right or the prevention of a wrong, that we can hope to realize leadership in its most exalted and disinterested sense. Therefore, when I say leadership, I mean a military leadership. Now, there's a couple things, a couple things to navigate there. Number one, if you think military people, military leaders don't do things for personal gain, you're completely wrong. I mean, this is. I've talked about that since day one. And if you know anyone in the military, they can definitely tell you about bosses that were looking to get promoted. That's the main Thing they're looking for, they're looking to get the best possible situation for themselves. Right? So that's not true. And also in the civilian sector, when people do the right things for the right reasons, they will end up more successful. And look, are there people that do bad things, do the wrong things for and try and give themselves personal gain? Of course there are, but I'm just saying that exists in the civilian sector and it exists in the military sector as well. And you see it, you get to see it when it falls apart in the civilian sector. Some guy that's been embezzling, some guy that's been, you know, falsifying contracts or falsifying documents or falsifying what they're doing for, from their financial perspect or they're egotistical, trying to make the, like, all those things come out. And they don't come out when they win. In most cases they come out when they lose. Now look to someone, do people occasionally pull, pull it off? You know, some guy builds up some fake ass company or is abusive and just kind of gets it done and makes money? Yeah, it happens. It happens eventually. Usually they get found out, you know, but, but it does happen. So keep that in mind. It's not quite as pure as, as he mentions here, but what he does say, and I will, so, so I'm, I'm going into that one a little bit hard. But he says what we hope to realize is leadership in its most exalted form. So he's, he's, he's admitting it to like we hope to see the pure leadership.

[B]

Yeah, it's ideal.

[A]

Yeah. Continuing on, in a few days, the great mass of you men will receive commissions as officers. These commissions will not make you leaders. Well, that's a little news flash there, second Lieutenant. That commission does not make you leader. They will merely make you officers. They will place you in a position where you can become leaders if you possess the proper attributes. But you must make good not so much with the men over you as the men under you. Oh, dang. Okay, okay. So we in the game now. You know what I'm saying? Hey, it doesn't matter what your boss thinks. You, what do your boys think of you, what do your troops think of you? That's, that's how you become a leader. And it's always interesting because you ever heard somebody talk about, we know you can't get away with the way we used to be able to do things. Can't lead like that anymore, almost in a negative way. That's not true. Like, people act like, oh, when I was, you know, when I was in. Somebody got out of line, smack them upside the head. It's like, oh, yeah, yeah, you did that. You weren't a good leader. You know what I mean? Even me, I did that. Like, you know, when I was. When I was a E5 mafia, you know, my leadership style was definitely more harsh than it was as I got older, more mature, and had better examples. So the fact that you have to make good with your troops and earn their respect and earn the position of leadership, that's what this is about. Even in 1917. And by the way, he's bringing back, you know, experiences from 1898. Like, this is old school stuff.

[B]

Can I ask you something?

[A]

Send it.

[B]

Do you remember or know when you first became in charge of other people?

[A]

Well, in my. It was interesting. Even in my first platoon, I was the primary comms guy. And so there was one guy that was my guy, like, subordinate. He was my subordinate, technically. Yes.

[B]

And when was this, like, your first year?

[A]

This is my first. When I first got to a SEAL platoon.

[B]

Okay, so. Okay, so com's guy. What was his position name or whatever?

[A]

He was? Secondary. Comms. Primary.

[B]

Primary. Okay. Separate. Okay, so so you. You had to tell him what to do from time to time?

[A]

O. Oh, yeah, for sure.

[B]

And he would re. He wouldn't really tell you what to do. So it was. It was. Was it very, like, tangible and established that you were his boss?

[A]

Yeah, it was, it was. Yes, it was the change. Like you're the primary comm guy.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yep, 100%.

[B]

Okay. And then do you remember. I guess that might. Okay. Do you remember when you were in charge of, like, more than just one guy? Like when you got either promoted or, you know.

[A]

Yeah, So I guess once. Once, you know, when you're a little bit of a fire team leader, which I didn't usually do because I was a radio man. So, you know, my fire team would always have the lieutenant in it, so I'd have an officer in my fire team, so I wouldn't be the fire team leader. So it wasn't really when I got. I guess when I got to trade at. Or, sorry, training cell at team one, and we'd go on trips, and I would be, like, in charge of a trip.

[B]

Is that like, permanent or is that just part of the rotation? Okay, okay, that's. That's what I mean. Like, where you're, like, established, like permanent.

[A]

And that's the thing I was going to say, because even, you know, when you're like, you've heard me tell a story about when D.C. took over the platoon and put me and another guy in charge to run the op, but that's not really what you're looking for. You're looking for, like, technically, according to. By the book, you are now in charge of these individuals. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

You're their boss. Yeah. And even though that happened all the time on a temporary. Like, oh, you're running this op, or. Or you're. Hey, you're in charge of, you know, clearing the backside of this target, or you're in charge of this op observation point, like, getting put in charge of that stuff a lot, or, like, you're the dive supervisor for this dive, or you're the range safety officer for this range, all those things are leading. Like, hey, I'm giving the range brief. I'm making sure that everything's squared away. If something goes wrong, I'm in charge on a dive. Like, hey, I'm making sure that everyone's showing up, making sure that everyone div. Expected. I'm in charge of the overall safety. Like, so, you know, you're in charge of things. But to go straight up by the book, it wasn't really. Until I got commissioned and I went to team two, and now I'm in a platoon as a assistant platoon commander, and I have a squad of guys.

[B]

Okay. Actually, you know what? This question might. Could very well apply to, like, even when you're temporarily in charge. So I personally have a very hard time, I have to admit this to myself, telling people what to do, like, being their boss, you know, like, hey, you. You go over here, make sure this is done. You know, like, bro, I feel. Always feel like I shouldn't be bossing nobody around, you know?

[A]

Yeah. And I would say even. Even when I was, like, the. The primary calm guy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Bossing people around has never been something that I did much of.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's never really. And you. You've heard me say this when I. When I talk about relationships, you know, everything that I did in the military is based on relationships and listening to people, what people have to say, and this is what we're doing, boys. Or like, hey, Echo, you need to be here at this time. Right. I'd be like, hey, we're launching around here. When do you guys think we should show up?

[B]

Yeah. And that's.

[A]

And as a matter of fact, I wrote in Leadership Strategy and Tactics. I. I told a story in Leadership Strategy and Tactics where I. My guys, there was, like, a guy. Guy that showed up almost late, not quite late. And then we forgot a piece of gear. And I told the. The E5 mafia and the leadership of the platoon because I was a platoon commander. But I told, you know, like, the lpo. I was like, hey, if anything like this ever happens again, I'm going to run everything. Meaning, like, I will micromanage everything. And I. And I told him, I want to do that, but I'm not going to. I want to. And they were like, we got a boss. We got a boss and never had any issue ever again. But. But to your point, like, I was never like, okay, here's what time we're mustering and here's what gear you need to bring. And you know, I never did that kind of stuff. I would say, like, hey, guys, here's the op we got. What time you think we need to be here? What? Hey, what gear? This is what we're doing, you know, make sure we got the right gear for it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, you know, I was never really, like, telling people what to do. And again, does this apply when you're doing an immediate action drill and desert warfare training and you go peel, Right. No, that's a different thing. It's like a different scenario.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, fully so, I guess. My. So. And you're right, though, now I'm like, reflecting now where even now you, like, sometimes my daughter will be like, oh, something about, blah, blah, your jocko is your boss. And like, I don't. I don't care what she says, but when she says it, it gives me, like, a very specific feeling, like I want to correct her. Not because. Not my boss. It's not that. It's just that it doesn't feel like it. I don't feel like I'm following your orders all the time.

[A]

You know, like, it e. I don't

[B]

feel like I got a ch. You know, so it doesn't feel like a boss scenario.

[A]

Well, I don't really consider myself your boss. You know, I really. The weird thing is, is I don't. Even though, like, we just came back from the muster. I use the term subordinate a lot.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't actually consider anyone to be my subordinate.

[B]

Right. And that's.

[A]

Which is a weird. Which is a weird thing. Like, I don't. I don't look at anyone and think, oh, that person's a subordinate to me. I just look at other people and go, oh, they've got this part of the mission. They got this part of the task. I got this part of the task. We're going to work together, cover for each other, and make sure that it gets done. Like, that's the way I view everybody. And by the way, even, you know, even. No matter where I am, you know, even. Even out in, you know, walking around the streets, you know, I don't look at other people like, oh, I have a nicer car than that person. They're subordinate to me, you know, or inferior.

[B]

Inferior.

[A]

Inferior. I look at him like, oh, yeah, that person's probably doing something cool and probably has some skills that I don't have. So I don't really consider anyone to be a subordinate.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. And it doesn't feel like it. It just feels like back in the. You know, in those days when you get promoted. Okay. Actually, this is more appropriate to when you're temporarily in charge. Actually, now that I'm thinking of it, because one moment you're part of the team, that. I think that's why. Because I always feel like we're kind of doing the same. Let's say, okay, me and Connor, we'll say. Let's say we're going on a video shoot. Actually, this happened. We went on a video shoot and I got, like, the camera, I got this other stuff or whatever, and I'm like, technically, I could carry everything. He wouldn't be carrying it. We have to go down this canyon and all this stuff or whatever. I felt uncomfortable telling him, hey, can you carry this? Because I know technically I could carry it. So why would I tell him to carry when I can do it kind of a thing? It's like I'm bossing him around.

[A]

Like, I'm this boss.

[B]

It felt very uncomfortable because I see him. LeBron, we're both kind of making this video, so why would I order him around right now? See what I'm saying? But then isn't there, like, an element of that that you have to, like, overcome? Because it, like, it. It would help. Like. Yeah.

[A]

I mean, that's the thing that you prioritize the mission a little bit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But also, it's. It's, you know, you don't say, hey, come over here, grab these three bags and carry them down. You go, hey, man, could you give me a hand with these things?

[B]

Yeah, right.

[A]

That's not really an order.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And. And in fact, if you picked it all up yourself and you started walking, most people that you interact with be like, hey, let me grab one of those bags.

[B]

That's how it is every single time. Yeah, it was. Yeah. I'd go into a whole thing, but, yeah, that's exactly how it turns out. And that's why I know that it's kind of an issue, because I'm like, my discomfort for, quote unquote, bossing people around or telling them what to do or whatever is keeping is like, hindering the myth, like, the mission and the efficiency.

[A]

Yeah. And again, I don't want to sound like I. I don't want to. I'm not sitting here making a claim. Like, I haven't been like, hey, grab that table over there. You know what I mean? Like, of course. But I would say that to anyone. You know what I mean? Like, I don't care if you were the admiral or you were the. The new guy. If I was like, had to pick up this. This piece of equipment and put it on the pallet, I'd be like, hey, Admiral, can you grab that? You know what I mean? Like, it's not that big of a deal, right? So I think as long as you're doing stuff for the good of the mission, I think people recognize that.

[B]

Yeah, I gotta. I gotta.

[A]

I'm not like, hey, Admiral, can you load my bags while I sit over here with my feet up? And I'm also like, hey, new guy, can you grab my bags while I sit over here with my feet up? Each of those. Those are equally disgusting.

[B]

I understand.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. I think it's like a reframe, I guess, because I. I don't know, maybe I'm traumatized. Maybe like some old bosses or whatever had that high horse kind of vibe to them, you know, and it's kind of. You know, sometimes you get the impression, like, oh, some. This person's telling me what to do in that tone just for the sake of, like, flexing their authority in front of people or something like that.

[A]

Yeah. By the way, like, there are times when you're in charge where you're making the call.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, I. I can think of millions of times where, okay, this is going on. This going on, this is going on. This is an option. This is an option, this is an option. And I go, all right, do this. And everyone goes, cool.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, usually there's enough time and space so everyone kind of realizes, like, oh, there's advantages, disadvantages. We need to go one direction or the other.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And when I feel that right there, it's like, okay, here's what we're doing.

[B]

Yeah. You know what I'm thinking? And you're laying out these perfect scenarios where I'm, like, proud. That's how, you know, that's the jam right there. And when I think in my mind of my. The past, I think I'm like, envisioning these very real experiences that I've had where I see someone just get put in charge and they turn into a whole different person and start ordering people around and, like, you know, with their chin up and just sort of, you know, just quote, unquote, run and stuff. You know, like, really embracing the boss role. And I remember thinking, probably, like, I would rather die than look like that. See what I'm saying? So I'm, like, all scared or whatever.

[A]

You're a little shy.

[B]

Yeah. Or something.

[A]

Yeah. But like I said, I think there's. There's absolutely appropriate times to. To do it. And I think you just need to be aware of that.

[B]

Yeah, I. I think I gotta frame it where, like, your. Your whole vibe comes off just like how you said, where it's kind of like, hey, we're all, like, doing it. And sometimes, bro, I'll tell you, like, I'm in this position sometimes too, where some of us kind of need direction. Since you have a. More of a mental grasp on the whole thing, it's like, right. It's best coming from you, you know, it's like, hey, there's a hole right there. Can. Can you feel that? Oh, perfect. Because I was looking for something to. To fill. You see what I'm saying?

[A]

For sure.

[B]

Where if you. Yeah, I guess I got to just frame it like that more.

[A]

But from the leadership perspective, if I'm running, if I'm telling you what time to show up, what equipment to bring, I'm tell. I'm giving you every possible order that I can. Number one, you have no. You don't learn anything. You don't take any initiative. And you're like, well, I'm just going to wait until Jocko tells me what to do. So that's bad. And then when I really need something, you don't. It's just another. It's. It's order number 49 out of, you know, 50 and who cares? As opposed to like, oh, you kind of figured out what you can bring. And I go, hey, one shot you need to get today is this. You're gonna get that shot. But if I told you to do all these other things and get this other shot too, you're like, I can't be surprised when you weren't able to do it, or you didn't do it, or you didn't understand the priority of it. Right, Right. It's just the way it is. Yeah. Carrying on men must and will follow into battle officers who are not leaders. But the driving power behind these men is not enthusiasm, enthusiasm, but discipline. They go with doubt and trembling. That prompts the unspoken question, what will he do next? Such men obey the letter of their orders, but no more of devotion to their commander of exalted enthusiasm, which scorns personal risk of self sacrifice to injure his personal safe safety. They know nothing. Their legs carry them forward because their brain and their training tell them they must go. Their spirit does not go with him. That's people that are just not good leaders. When people aren't good leaders, there's no. There's no spirit, right? They're not going to take extra personal risk. They're not going to do more. They'll just kind of do what they're told. And what are the chances that you as a leader are going to be able to tell everyone exactly what it is they need to do all the way to the nth degree? The chances are zero. They're going to be in situations where they have to change, they're going to have to step up, they're going to have to do more than what you told them to do. And if you don't have good leadership, they're not going to be able to do it and they're not going to do it continuing on. Great results are not achieved by cold, passive, unresponsive soldiers. They don't go very far and they stop as soon as they can. Now he gives the contrary. Leadership not only demands, but receives the willing, unhesitating, unfaltering obedience and loyalty of other men and in a and a devotion that will cause them, when the time comes, to follow their uncrowned king to hell and back again if necessary. That's leadership. As opposed to following people that aren't leaders, you will ask yourselves of just what then does leadership consist? What must I do to become a leader? What are the attributes of leadership and how can I cultivate them? Leadership is a composite of a number of qualities. Among the most important, I would list self confidence, moral ascendancy, self sacrifice, paternalism, fairness, initiative, decision, dignity, courage. And now he rattles through him. Self confidence results first from the exact. From exact knowledge, second, the ability to impart that knowledge, and third, the feeling of superiority over others that naturally follows. All these give officer poise. Now it's interesting. I'll continue to lead. You must know, you may bluff all of your men some of the time, but you can't do it all the time. Men will not have confidence in an officer unless he knows his business, and he must know it from the ground up. So what's interesting about this is you've heard me say a thousand times, if you don't know how to do something, you don't pretend like you do. And he's singing that, but he's, he's like eliminating the fact that there might be some stuff you don't know. You know, he's like, got to know. You got to know. And what's interesting is when you talk about confidence. Like, if you're feeling confident going into jiu jitsu match, what makes you feel confidence? Is it a pep talk? No. Is it a, a go drinking a go before you compete? No. So what gives you real confidence before you compete? You practiced. You practiced hard, you trained hard, you rehearsed. Like, those are the things that give you confidence. And by the way, that confidence follows through in leadership because if you have trained and you prepared and you study, you feel confident, and people are going to see that, and that's a good thing, you know. And again, of course, we're not letting this flow into arrogance, but it is, you know, we're not following people that lack confidence. We don't like to follow people that are egomaniacs, but we don't want to follow people that are scared and lack confidence. Confidence is a good thing. The officer should know more about paperwork than his 1st sergeant and company clerk put together. He should know more about messing than the mess sergeant, more about diseases of the horse than his troop farrier. He should be at least as good a shot as any man in his company. So that, that's kind of a tall order. And I'm going to tell you, I never, I never knew more about admin than my admin people. I never knew more about the logistics than my logistics people. I never was, you know, never. There was always people in a platoon that are going to be a better shot than you are. So that's a, that's, that's a tall task there. If the officer does not know and demonstrates the fact that he does not know, it is entirely human for the soldier to say to himself, to hell with him, he doesn't know as much about this as I do, and calmly disregard the instructions received. Yeah, this is, this is a tough one, man. Like, I'm not, I, I don't agree with all this. The way, the way I break this down, the way I've always broken this down is. You ever heard the thing that there's no such thing as stupid Questions? Well, there are, especially if you're in a leadership position and you have neglected to do the basic groundwork to understand the fundamentals of the situation that you're in. Yeah, those are stupid questions. Those are the things that people will lose faith in you if you're, if you go out and you know, you shoot your sniper rifle with the sniper or you shoot the sniper rifle of the sniper and you don't shoot as well as him, the sniper doesn't go, what a piece of. Yeah, no, he goes, yeah, well the boss is out here. He's not gonna be as good. If you don't know everything about programming a certain radio, the radio man's like, oh, he's a loser. No, that's not true. So, but if you come out and you see the sniper rifle and you go, what's that? Or you pick up the radio. Yeah, yeah, you know, is it, what weapon is that? Well, bro, you didn't, you don't even know what sniper weapons we have. Or you pick up a radio and say, what radio is this? Like, I understand you don't know the detailed how to program four levels into the radio, but for you to pick up the radio, hey, this is good. Good UHF radio. Good. It's got embedded crypto in it. Great. Like knowing the basics, knowing the fundamentals is where is what you need to do. And listen, occasionally you're gonna get caught off guard and maybe you have to raise your hand. There's something you don't know, it's okay. But to not to do that on a regular basis is a problem. And, but, but to think that you're gonna know it more than your radio, man, it ain't happening. You think you're gonna know more than your sniper? It ain't happening. You think you're gonna know more than your medic. It ain't happening. Man, those people went to a year long school to figure that stuff out. You're not going to be better than them. But if you've got stupid questions that shows you haven't even put forth the effort, that's gonna be a problem. Continuing on, there is no substitute substitute for accurate knowledge. Become so well informed that men will hunt you up to ask you questions that your brother officers will say to one another, ask Smith. He knows. And not only should each officer know thoroughly the duties of his own grade, but he should study those of the two grades next above him. A twofold benefit attaches to this. He prepares himself for duties which may fall to his lot during any time in a battle. He further gains a broader viewpoint which enables him to appreciate the necessity for the issuance of orders and join more intelligently in their execution. Totally agree with that. Always know what the next couple levels above you in the chain of command have going on and what their job is. And by the way, I would say two levels down as well, right? One or two levels down. One. I used to actually teach one level up and one level down. Maybe it's like 1.5 and 1.5, because again, you should know how to pick up that radio and make comms with it, but you probably don't know how to troubleshoot it. Yeah, you should know how to fire some rounds during, you know, on that sniper weapon, but you might not how to not know how to dope it in. So there's, there's a difference. And up the chain of command it's like, oh, I can definitely make communications with the overhead assets, get information from them, but I probably don't know how to plan the whole stack of aircraft that are up there. So like one and a half up and down the chain of command is probably a good spot to aim for. Not only must the officer know, but he must be able to put what he knows into grammatical, interesting, forceful English. He must learn to stand on his feet and speak without embarrassment. I am told that in British training camp, student officers are required to deliver 10 minute talks on any subject they choose. That is excellent practice for to speak clearly, one must think clearly and clear. Logical thinking expresses itself in definite, positive orders. Absolutely.

[B]

So a lot of this stuff I'm thinking in regards to like my kids. I just thought of this thing and you can be kids, whatever. But so you know how your kids will have like arguments, right? Like, hey, I want to stay up late or I want to do a sleepover tomorrow. Right. And sometimes we're on the fence about it, like, yeah, you know, I want them to have these experiences or blah, blah, blah. But it might not be a good idea for XYZ reason. But you're on the fence. If you could do an exercise. Actually, I'm gonna do this. I'm like thinking out loud.

[A]

Kind of make them present an argument.

[B]

Yeah. In front of everybody. See what I'm saying?

[A]

Great.

[B]

And then, you know, ask questions. I mean, look, not like full on freaking interrogation mode or nothing, but, but really kind of you're rooting for them, but ask them some challenging questions, you know, like, hey, what about, you know, hey, I think I'm gonna do that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because Brian get arguments all the time. Not, you know, terrible, but.

[A]

Yeah, there's a lot of. That's great. And I. I had my kids present cases at times. They want to get a phone. Yeah, the case.

[B]

Perfect. Yeah.

[A]

You know, and there's a lot of things that you can do that with. Very, very helpful.

[B]

So the idea of standing up in front of everyone, to me is. Is because my kids are. They'll present their case. As of right now, their whole thing is presenting their case. And sometimes I'm like, that's quite impressive, you know? You know, like, oh, bro, have you ever seen that video? Okay, It's a video. It's like a dash cam, you know, not a dash cam looking out, but looking in at the driver and the passenger. And then they had a girl, a daughter, 6, 7 years old in the back. They're at a drive through, and the mom's like, oh, can I get a. A coffee and this and that. And then so the, the mom's in the driver's seat doing. Making the order through the drive through, and the dad is in the passenger seat and the daughter's in the back. So the, the mom says, oh, can I get a coffee and a blah, blah, blah. And then the girl goes, from the back, she goes, oh, can I get a cookie? And then the mom goes, mom goes, no, honey, we have a cookie at home. And then the dad's just kind of looking at the drive through, and the girl goes, well, we have coffee at home. And the dad. You look at the dad go in the passenger seat, he's like, bro. He had no, you know, he's kind of like, bro. She has a point. He kind of made that gesture. And then the lady's like. She's thinking about it and she didn't get mad. Prop Sarah. She didn't get mad. She's like, thinking about it, a little bit frustrated, but she's like. She pauses and she goes, and can I get a cookie too?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You see what I'm saying? It's like, bro, kids will have an argument, but if you can add that little layer of talking in front of people and making a clear case. See what I'm saying while you're talking?

[A]

That's good because there's that whole thing with, you know, public speaking is one of the biggest fears or whatever, phobias, so you can help them get over that at a young age can be very helpful.

[B]

I like it.

[A]

Continuing on while self confidence is the result of knowing more than your mental moral ascendancy over them is based upon your belief that you Are the better man. Again, this is kind of opposite of what I just said. You know, I don't, I don't see. I don't see other people as like, subordinates or, or inferior, you know, And I, But I think I, I think I get where he's coming from and I'll get to in a minute. He says to gain and maintain this ascendancy, you must have self control, physical vitality and endurance and moral force. You must have yourself so well in hand, even though in battle you will be scared stiff, you will never show fear. For if by so much as a hurried movement or a trembling of the hands or a change of expression or a hasty order, hastily revoked, you indicate your mental condition, it will be reflected in your mental to a far greater degree. So I think what he's doing there is. He's setting them up. You ever, you ever had like a coach or, or, or a parent say, like, you're better than that? Yeah, I think that's what he's setting up is like, hey, be better than that. Yeah, be like, behave in a way. You know, this is actually something I tell young military people. Like, when you're part of this unit, you represent this unit and everything you do, people look at it, at what you do and how you behave, and they put that on this whole unit, including, by the way, guys that died.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Act accordingly is what I tell them. Act accordingly. And so that's what he's saying. I think you have to be careful. Obviously, you're walking around thinking you're better than other people. That's terrible. But to elevate yourself to say, hey, you're better than that, you need to behave to the highest possible standards.

[B]

Standard, exactly. Yeah. That's how I got. I mean, you know, let's face it, this is old school, you know, so the presentation might not be as, you know, finely tuned as it could be, like today or whatever, but yeah, the. If you do. Yeah, like, take that. Taking the high road, holding yourself to a high standard, because, hey, bro, people are looking. You got to, you know, you got to kind of set the example. So make sure that example is high standards. You're saying, like, it feels like. Yeah, I feel like that, that checks out there.

[A]

Yeah. And. And one thing he says that he gets to later, you know, unless you. He's saying, like, oh, you know, you need. Don't change your order. But he talks about later, like, when you make a mistake, you have to change. So don't get. You don't want to get locked into Something just because you said it. Now that's what we're doing. Continuing on in garrison or camp, many instances will arise to try your temper and wreck the sweetness of your disp. Position. If at such times you fly off the handle, you have no business to be in charge of men. For men in anger say and do things that they almost invariably regret afterwards. Boom. Don't lose your temper. An officer should never apologize to his men. Also, an officer should never be guilty of an act for which his sense of justice tells him he should apologize. So, I mean, I totally disagree with not apologizing. I think when you mess up, you should absolutely apologize. That being said, it's almost like a. It's almost a trick, right? He's saying you should never apologize because you should never do anything where you have to apologize. But hey, since we're not perfect, if you do screw up, you should absolutely apologize. And I've heard that today. I've heard. I hear people say that never, Apollo. Like, you should never have to apologize to your kids, or you should never have to apologize to your team. Like, I call on that. You make a mistake, apologize. Hey, I screwed this up.

[B]

Yeah, it feels like a lot of times the. The no apology or, you know, you. You got to know everything or whatever because, you know, a lot of us, like, we kind of need. If we're gonna follow somebody, we need an element of consistency there. You know, you don't need some wishy washy, you know, person that doesn't know what they're doing. So it's. It's almost like they're trying to maybe over index on that. That element of perfection. Like, you gotta stay, you know, and even if you mess up, which we all do, it's like you can't let them see you sweat. You can't. You know, it's like almost like that vibe.

[A]

Yeah. Gotta be careful with that. Is. It comes out so much better when you just. When you screw up, everyone sees. When you screw up, they see. It's not like they don't see it, they see it. So just apologize, take ownership and move on. Another element in gaining moral ascendancy lies in the possession of enough physical vitality and endurance to. To withstand the hardships to which you and your men are subjected. And a dauntless spirit that enables you not only to accept them cheerfully, but to minimize their magnitude. That's legit. You got to be in freaking shape. You got to be able to handle it physically, not only so that you can accept it gleefully, but you're like, no factor.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You can minimize its magnitude. This is a great one. Make light of your troubles, belittle your trials, and you will help vitally to build up within your organization and a spree whose value in time of stress cannot be measured. So you got some big problem going on. No factor.

[B]

You like that one?

[A]

I do like that one.

[B]

It's like that. You know, I always refer mentally back to the jujitsu incident where, like, I was trying to cross my leg over or whatever, and I kicked you in the face hard, like it was a straight up strike to the face, to the point where I had to say, oh. I was like, oh, wait, pause the roll. You know, like, hey, are you okay? You're like, what. What happened? No. You didn't feel it? Didn't even notice it happened. Okay, all right.

[A]

That's some cool stuff. We don't notice that. We're not admitting what. Is your. Is your heel okay?

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Well, shin okay.

[B]

Yeah. What happened? You said your heel hit something. Are you good? Because.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Yep. I caught a couple. I caught, like, legit, like, two freaking hardcore knees to the face. Yeah, I saw that from Noah, by the way.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Makes it last round scenario. So it was, you know, all right, last one. I think we did 10 rounds. It was. It was getting crazy, and everyone's getting kind of nuts, but it was. But, you know, towards the end, everyone's kind of like, de. Escalated a little bit. But then I'm like, you know, I'm all right, last round, boys. And. But it was, you know, the little flashes. You get hit when you get hit. Yeah, yeah, I got one. And then I kept going. Got another one double. And then I felt blood. And I was like, I really hope. I was hoping it wasn't a cut. It wasn't a cut. It was just a bloody nose. But I had a pretty good shiner. Yeah, thanks, Noah. Good job. But I tried to make light. Kept. You know, I couldn't keep going because now I was bleeding, you know, and you want to get blood all over the mat in the whole nine yards? No, but, yeah, as much as I can. I'm going to belittle my trials. Moral force is the third element to gaining moral ascendancy. To exert moral force, you must live clean. You must have sufficient brain power to see the right and the will to do the right. Be an example to your men. I think that's what that all boils down to. You know, there's a. We have to watch out. You know, we have to watch out that we're not believing that we're better than people. Because a lot of this, if you. If you have the wrong personality, you're going to take this and like, the person that, you know, you go to the. You go to the restaurant and, you know, you order. You order a steak and Caesar salad, and then you got someone else, and they order a steak and Caesar salad, but then they pull out the croutons. And you're eating the croutons.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they think they're better than you as a human. You know what I mean?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

They're like, oh, type 2 diabetes much, you know?

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Like.

[B]

Well, that.

[A]

That kind. If you gotta watch out, that we're not taking all this stuff to where we feel like we're better than other people.

[B]

Yeah, fully, bro. And that's, like, in that example, even is actually. I mean, that was a fun example, you know, the croutons. But even that example is. Is impactful. So, again, we'll go back to the kids real quick. So I know a person that we know. I'm gonna say his name. He. He's a fitness guy. You know, he's into, you know, fitness and stuff, and he'll compete in certain things. So in preparation, or I think it was in preparation, like, you know, the family would go eat dinner, and he had a young daughter. And so when he would eat dinner, his dinner was different than the rest of the family's dinner. And the daughter, unbeknownst to him, felt this overwhelming guilt that, you know, because he's obviously eating the correct stuff, she's eating the incorrect stuff.

[A]

He's eating broccoli and skinless chicken breast.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. Right. And to the point where the daughter wound up having a slight, like, disorder from it as a result, and she admitted this later or whatever. And. Yeah, so you think, you know, like, no, no, I'm not pressuring nobody. I'm just doing my thing or whatever. But, Brad, you can kind of give off that vibe if you're not careful.

[A]

And people can smell that vibe. People can smell your intent. And if you and your heart believe that you're better than them, you got a problem. Like, you got a problem, man. It's gonna be problematic, you know, if we're out at the bar. Yeah. Hey, man, like. Like, even when. When I go out somewhere, right, and people are drinking alcohol, which I totally disagree with, drinking alcohol, I don't. I literally do not think I'm better than them. You know what I mean? I'm not, like, I'm like, oh, they're. They're, you know, they're gonna have a good time. And I, you know, probably not thinking too much about the future, but they're living in. In the moment. Props to that. You know what I mean? I don't think I'm better than them.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that is definitely something that can happen. So that's what this whole. Like, a lot of this list right here, you have to watch out for. Because even when I think I know, you know. You know what's a classic example, actually? Jiu Jitsu. Jiu Jitsu. When I am better than someone at Jiu jitsu. And I've told this to many people. When you're better than someone at Jiu jitsu, you're not a better person. You've just trained a little bit more Jiu Jitsu than them. You know what I mean? It doesn't make you better. You're not a better human. You're not a better athlete. They just. You just been training longer than somebody. And that's. That's a very good thing to keep in mind. You know, people are in various stages of their ascension.

[B]

Yeah. In that particular thing.

[A]

In that particular thing which you or they may or may not care about, by the way. They may not care. You know, at the muster, I was talking about bowling.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

Because Dave Burke beat me in bowling, you know, But I was talking about in different ecosystems, people judge things differently. And one of the things, you know, in. In. In every ecosystem, they have different things that they judge differently. Right. The. You know, I brought up, if you're a biker and you've done time, it's kind of like more respect. If you're a banker and you've done time, it's like your back goes down. You might not even have that job anymore. And depending on what ecosystem you're in. Oh, you know, people really care about. I was like, bowling is one of the examples I brought up. And then I remembered, as I was on stage, I remembered that Dave Burke and our families together went bowling. Yeah. And Dave beat me in bowling. And, you know, I'm like, if there's be being beaten in, bowling is really. I don't know what's at the bottom of my list of things that I care about. But it's way down there. You know what I'm saying? It's way down there. It's way down there. But, you know, but if someone's into bowling, like, they're like, oh, this guy's that good at bowling. Whereas I literally don't care at all. Not in one. Not in no part of my brain. Any part of my brain do I say, damn, like, respect.

[B]

What was your score?

[A]

I have no idea. I have no idea. Dave was. Dave was beating me and he beat me. Yeah.

[B]

Hey, real quick.

[A]

My wife's good at weird stuff. Like, I think she. She'll. She's good at, like, billiards, like pool.

[B]

Oh, pool. She.

[A]

She had a. In England, they have a game called snooker.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So she's. She played snooker all the time growing up. She plays darts. She'll, like, beat you at weird stuff or she'll try to.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Until you have to go aggro.

[B]

It's kind of respect. Darts too.

[A]

Oh, yeah, darts. She'll cross. Maybe she's a Brit, you know. Yeah, she'll just.

[B]

Why? That's how.

[A]

Oh, yeah. And they go in a pub and play darts like, it's going out of style, bro.

[B]

Oh, yeah, I remember American Werewolf in London. That was like a big thing.

[A]

Yeah. Or what's the soccer TV show right now on Apple tv. Yeah, well, it's in there, too. Real quick, back to the famous dart scene.

[B]

Oh, on the. On this show. Okay. I didn't know that. Back to belittling your own trials. So that can help yourself even as an individual in life too, for sure, by the way. And actually probably more. I remember when I first got wind of that, where I was in. It was my third.

[A]

Second.

[B]

Third Jiu Jitsu tournament. Dean Lister was coaching me. First match of the. Of the tournament. And I was like, we're kind of battling with this guy Chris. We know him. He. I haven't seen for a few years. But anyway, he. We're going. We're battling back and forth, and I was kind of getting tired, so my pace started to slow down. And Dean Lister's, you know, he's coaching me up or whatever, and he goes. He goes, you are not tired. And, bro, I just became not tired all of a sudden because it's true. Because I kind of, like, allowed myself to accept it that, oh, I was getting tired. So let me slow down my pace, you know, kind of a thing. But I was not even nearly as tired as I probably in real life was, you know, where it's like. It was that mental gray area where you have the choice to accept or

[A]

reject, you know, reject.

[B]

Exactly. Little that.

[A]

Little that. Continue on. An officer can be a power for good or a powerful evil. Don't preach to them. That will be worse than useless. Live the kind of life you would want Them to lead. And you will be surprised to see the number that will imitate you. A loud mouth, profane captain who is careless of his personal appearance will have a loud mouth, profane, dirty company. Remember what I tell you. Your company will be the reflection of yourself. If you have a rotten company, it is because you are a rotten captain. Self sacrifice is essential to leadership. You will give. Give all the time you will give of yourself physically for the longest hours. The hardest work and the greatest responsibility are the lot of the captain. He is the first man up in the morning and the last man at night. He works while others sleep. Boom. You will give of yourself mentally in sympathy and appreciation for the troubles of men in your charge. This one's mother has died and that one has lost all his savings in a bank failure. They may desire help more than anything else. They desire sympathy. Don't make the mistake of turning such men down with the statement that you have troubles of your own. For every time you do that, you. For every time you do that, you knock a stone out of the foundation of your house. Your men are your foundation and your house of leadership will tumble about your ears unless it rests securely upon them. Finally, you will give of your own slender financial resources. You will frequently spend your own money to conserve the health and well being of your men or to assist them while in trouble. Generally, you get your money back very frequently. You must charge it off to profit and loss. Even so, it is worth the cost. That's it, man. Self sacrifice. And you know what? This is one of those things where everybody notices it. And the one way you can diminish it is by chiming in about it. You know what I'm saying? Like if I say, dude, I had to stay here until midnight last night, like you, you already know, like you showed up to work in the morning and the things that had to get done that weren't done when you left. And you know how much time they take and you show up and they're done. You know it. You know, I at least stayed till 10, maybe 11. You might not know that, man, but I want that last little bit of credit for midnight. The, the worst, the best way to diminish the credit you want is, is to ask for the credit you want. Keep your freaking mouth shut. And whether that's the physical, like, well, I was actually carrying this much weight on that, or whether it's the mental, well, you have no idea what it's like answering to the, to the headquarters all day or the time why had to come in Even earlier than you did. No matter what. The thing is that you want that little bit of credit for, don't ask for it. Hide it. Freaking hide it if you can. You can't hide it though. They're gonna know. Just have faith that they're gonna know and everything's gonna be okay. The next one is paternalism. When I say that paternalism is essential leadership, I use the term in its better sense. I do not now refer to that form of paternalism which robs men of initiative, self reliance and self respect. I refer to the paternalism that manifests itself in a watchful care for the comfort and welfare of those in your charge. Soldiers are much like children. Sorry? They're my. My army brethren. Soldiers are much like children. You must see that they have shelter, food and clothing, the best that your utmost efforts can provide. You must see that they have food to eat before you think of your own. That they each have as good of a bed as you provide. Before you consider where you will sleep, you must be far more salacious of their own own comfort than your own. Solicitous of their own comfort than your own. You must look after their health. You must conserve their strength by not demanding needless exertion or useless labor. Team comes first. And by doing all these things, you are breathing life into what would be an otherwise. Otherwise be a mere machine. You are creating a soul in your organization that will make the mass respond to you as it as though it were one man. That is a spree. And when your organization has a spree, you will wake up some morning and discover that the tables have been turned. That instead of your constantly looking out for them, they have, without even a hint from you, taken up the task of looking out for you. You will find that a detail is always there to see. That your tent, if you have one, is properly pitched. That the most and cleanest bottom bedding is brought to your tent. That from some mysterious source, two eggs have been added to your supper when no one else has any. That an extra man is helping your men give you a hor. Give your horse a super grooming. That your wishes are anticipated. That every man is Johnny on the spot. And then you have arrived and you've heard me say, take care of your people and your people will take care of you. And that's exactly what that is. That's exactly what that is. You take care of your people, they're absolutely going to take you. Take care of you. And they're going to do it with pride. Next, you cannot treat all men alike. A punishment that would be dismissed by one man with a shrug of the shoulders is mental anguish for another, a company commander who, for a given offense has a standard punishment that applies to all is either too indolent or. Or too stupid to study the personality of his men. In his case, justice is certainly blind. And this is. I oftentimes I would have guys that would do something stupid, and I didn't need to do any punishment to him. Like, I literally didn't need to do anything. They were punishing themselves. You know, they were horrified by what they had done. And. But what you got to be careful of, then other people that are like, well, man, he kind of got a slack. Do you? Jocko doesn't care about that. So you'd have to find how you talk about it so that everyone understands that a grievous thing happened and it can't happen again. But at the same time, to, like, mutilate a guy's soul when he's already freaking feeling terrible himself, right.

[B]

It's like the. It's like this idea of, like, punishing somebody for almost, like, revenge versus, like, actual rehabilitation, like, solving a problem. See what I'm saying? Like, if.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If you can tell the guy is so beat up internally because of the shame and the embarrassment that this. And the anticipation of getting fired, like, just going through something psychologically, and you can tell, it's. It's kind of like, okay, like, we can kind of rest assured this guy learned his lesson kind of a thing. But if you're like, no, no, he needs some kind of, like, pain that I inflict on him, it's, like, different.

[A]

It's like your own ego.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. It's like.

[A]

It's.

[B]

It's the difference between doing it for, like, the group and the system versus, like, making it about yourself kind of a thing.

[A]

Not good.

[B]

How do you feel about, like, group punishment?

[A]

Collective punishment is what they call it.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

It depends. It depends. There are times when it's. When it's necessary. There are also times when it's stupid and just depends on the situation, you know, like, occasionally. And sometimes it. Sometimes it elevates to collective punishment. Meaning, like, okay, this guy got in trouble, and now this guy got in trouble. And, hey, listen, if one more guy gets in trouble, you're all gonna pay. You see what I'm saying? Like, one guy forgets a piece of gear. Cool. You know, that guy's gonna show up an hour early for the next two weeks. Another guy forgets a piece of gear. Okay. That guy's throwing up, by the way. Next time this happens, everyone's showing up. You see what I'm saying? So sometimes, like, the group needs to police itself. And if the group isn't policing itself, then I gotta police the group.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

See what I'm saying?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because we're. Our goal is that the group. The gang polices itself is what the goal is. The gang polices itself. That's what generally happens. That's why, you know, when I was a platoon commander, I was a task unit commander. I didn't have to go and police the group when someone showed up late. I didn't have to say a damn word. It was getting handled. Someone forgets a piece of gear. I didn't need to go and do a gear inspection. It was getting handled. So it didn't really ever. Usually things for me did not elevate to group punishment. I did tell that story with my guys that almost showed up late and forgot a piece of gear. And there was a little bit of a spotlight on us for what we were doing at the time, and so unacceptable. And that's why I escalated immediately to a threat of, like, group punishment, which was me running things. Because when I'm running things, bro, there's a whole. It's. It's. It's on, you know. You want to talk about showing up early, bro? We're doing dry rehearsals for the rehearsals to rehearse. See what I'm. See what I'm saying? They did not. The look. Look. That was a great group of guys, but I remember the. The acting leading petty officer at the time and who's a great dude, who I always had a great time with and did a great job in combat. But I remember the look on his face when I said, like, I'm gonna run this. You could see he was like, dude, we do not want this. We do not want this at all. He was like. He was like, hey, hey, boss, boss. We got it. We got it. Won't happen again. Won't happen again. And probably a week before this, I had said, like, hey, let's get here tomorrow. Like, I don't know, 6:30? And he was like, how about 6:45 or something like that? And I go, bro, you trying to squeeze 15 minutes of liberty out of me,

[B]

Jack, that group punishment, I. At first, I always thought that, hey, I think this is, like, abuse. Like, you shouldn't do this because it causes, like, secondary, like, problems. So, like, okay, Pop Warner football. We.

[A]

We do. What was the name of your team?

[B]

Color Rams The Rams and then Calor Raiders. When you move up to midgets, it's peewees and midget. Anyway, so we did this drill where we're doing sprints. But it. When you do sprints in football, sometimes they want to condition you mentally as well. So you know the count, right? Set down, hot, hot, hot. Right? This football. So the first height is one, second, hut is two. So sometimes the count will be like, on two. And if you go on, if you do a fault, it's a false start. If you don't go on the correct thing, right? If it's on two, you say, set, down, hut, and someone jumps, that's jumping off sites or a false start, right? So it's to con. It's to train you with that as well. So if the quarter quarterback says, hey, in the huddle, hey, it's on three. You guys gotta focus, you know, because it's. Once you hear the first height, it's almost automatically you go, you see? I'm saying. So you can run into that issue. So you train it in practice.

[A]

Practice.

[B]

But they train it in practice when we do the sprints for conditioning. So you're kind of physically. You see what I'm saying? You gotta lock in, bro. So if someone keeps jumping off sides, and every time someone jumped, like, of the whole team now, you got freaking, however many 60 guys or whatever lined up across the whole field. And we're all doing sprints for conditioning and mental change. So if one guy jumped out anytime, this is the one. It's like, okay. The coach goes, okay, it's on three. Everyone's already ready. All right, bro. Someone's gonna jump.

[A]

Jump.

[B]

Of the whole team, no one's gonna jump, right? Impossible, right? So we're all like. And if someone jumps now, we gotta back up five yards. So now the sprint is five yards. You see what I'm saying? So it could be in a compound. So it's like, oh, my gosh, it's very stressful. So anyway, if the same guy starts jumping off sides too much, like, if he does two, three in a row, people start getting mad, right? But it messes with the guy. So now he can concentrate. Even, like, it's hard. It's like a combo compounding thing for that guy. So after a while, the goat is like, all right, brother, can everybody do push ups? Everybody but the guy. Except for the guy who jumped off sites. You gotta watch. So everyone, like, hates him. I remember thinking, hey, that's. I see what you're doing. But now, even when we're done with conditioning. Everyone hates that guy. Now we're less of a team. See what I'm saying? But when you think about it like one more step, it's kind of like. No, no, no. Your lack of focus, your shortcomings are affecting the whole team. The whole team has to go five yards back, not just you. See what I'm saying? So you got to lock in. It kind of trains you. And plus and everyone being mad at you is part of the punishment, but psychological and social. See what I'm saying? It's not like.

[A]

That's like in Full Metal Jacket when he gets caught with a donut and everyone else is doing push ups and he's just eating the donut. You know what I'm saying?

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Collective punishment.

[B]

I dig it. Yeah.

[A]

There's a time for it.

[B]

Yeah, that and that's. That's what I think. That's spot on how you're like, hey, if there's. If you're doing it through a very specific methodology for. For a reason. Yeah, yeah. Makes sense to me.

[A]

Check back to the book. Study your men as carefully as a surgeon studies a difficult case. When you are sure of your diagnosis, apply the remedy. And remember that you apply the remedy to affect a cure, not merely to see the victim squirm. That's what you were talking about. It may be necessary to cut deep. But when you are satisfied as to your diagnosis, don't be divided, diverted from your purpose by any false sympathy for the patient. Hand in hand with fairness and awarding punishment walks fairness and giving credit. Everybody hates a human hog. When one of your men is accomplished, an especially credible piece of work, see that he gets a proper reward. Turn heaven and earth upside down to get it for him. Don't try and take it away from him and hog it yourself. You may do this and get away with it it, but you have lost the respect and loyalty of your men. Sooner or later your brother officers will hear of it and shun you like a leper. In war there is enough glory for all. Give the men under you his due. The man who always takes and never gives is not a leader. He is a parasite. There's another kind of fairness. That which will prevent an officer from abusing the privileges of his rank. When you exact respect from soldiers, be sure to treat them with equal respect. Build up their manhood and self respect. Don't try to pull it down. For an officer to be overbearing and insulting in the treatment of enlisted men is an act of a coward. He ties the man to a tree with the ropes of discipline and then strikes him in the face, knowing full well that the man cannot strike back. Consideration, courtesy and respect from officers toward enlisted men are not incompatible with discipline. They are parts of our discipline. Without initiative and decision, no man can expect to leave to lead. So what I mean, this is just obvious. And again, people think, oh, back in the old days they were so hardcore. And there's no. Here's a guy Pre World War I, this, this document is pre US involvement in World War I. And he's saying, do not insult, do not be overbearing, treat people with respect. In maneuvers you will frequency frequently. See, when an emergency arises, certain men calmly give instant orders which later on analysis prove to be, if not exactly the right thing, very nearly the right thing to have done. You will see other men in emergency become badly rattled, their brains refuse to work, or they give a hasty order, order, revoke it, give another revoke, that in short, show every indication of being in a blue funk. Regarding the first man, you say that man is a genius. He hasn't had time to reason this thing out. He acts intuitively. Forget it. Genius is merely the capacity for taking infinite pains. The man who has already, the man who was ready, is the man who prepared himself. He has studied beforehand the possible situations that might arise. He has made tentative plans covering such situations. When he is confronted by the emergency, is ready to meet it, he must have sufficient mental alertness to appreciate the problem that confronts him and the power of quick reasoning to determine what changes are necessary in his already formulated plan. He must also have the decision to order the execution and stick to his orders. So again he's saying, hey, someone's going to make a quick call. It's because they planned for it. Which is good, that's good. And he's going to make it even more solid here. Any reasonable order in an emergency is better than no order. The situation is there, meet it. It is better to do something and do it wrong than to hesitate, hunt around for the right thing to do, and wind up doing nothing at all. And having decided on a line of action, stick to it. It don't vacillate. Men have no confidence in an officer who doesn't know his own mind. Occasionally you will be called upon to meet a situation which no reasonable human being could anticipate. If you have prepared yourself to meet other emergencies which you could anticipate, the mental training you have thereby gained will enable you to act proper, promptly and with calmness. And I'll go one Step further than that. Which is. It's not just mental preparation. It's getting put in scenarios that are crazy and complicated and having to figure out what to do. You get better at that. So that's what I got to see. Running the advanced SEAL training is you put a guy, the first time he gets put into a chaotic situation, disaster.com locks up, doesn't know what to do, freaks out. Then you, you know, you put him in another situation and maybe, obviously you tell them, like, hey, man, take a step back. Hey, assess what's happening. Get up. Get up to a little bit of high ground. Look around. Don't try and figure everything out at once. Make a very small decision. Okay, try it again. They'll do a little bit better. They do a little better, and eventually they learn the protocol to get through these complex emergencies that happen. So it's not just mental training. It's like a physical thing that you have to do. And just like you can teach someone an arm bar for three months with PowerPoint, the first time they do an arm bar, it still won't be there. You gotta do it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Continuing, you must frequently act without orders from higher authority. Time will not permit you to wait for them. Here again enters the importance of studying the work of officers above you. If you have a comprehensive grasp of the entire situation and can form an idea of the general plan of your superiors, that and your previous emergency training will enable you to determine that the responsibility is yours and to issue the necessary orders without delay. Understand what the mission is. The element of personal dignity is important in military leadership. Be the friend of your men, but do not become their intimate. Your men should stand in awe of you, not fear. And I tried to find if there was like an alternate meaning of awe. And there is, you know, it. It doesn't quite mean, you know, there's alternate meanings that are like, less profound. You know what I mean? It's not like, Ah, right. It's like. Oh, yeah, like. Like heavy levels of respect. Right?

[B]

Almost reverence.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But not quite reverence. But we're approaching it.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. I'm saying, looking up to this guy, he's close. Closer to the ideal. Ideal.

[A]

Exactly, exactly. You know, because again, you got to be careful. If you're like, goal is to have people. If you think people should stand in awe of you, that's not going to go well. But if you think people should respect you and see how you behave and respect your actions, that's good. If your men presume to become familiar, it's your fault, not theirs. Your actions have encouraged them to do so. And above all things, don't cheapen yourself by courting their friendship or currying their favor. They will despise you. If you are worthy of their loyalty and respect and devotion, they will surely give you all those things without asking. If not, nothing that you can do will win them. So this is. This is the classic case of trying to get everyone on the team to be your buddy. And if you do that, you're not holding the line like you need to. It is exceedingly difficult for an officer to be dignified while wearing a dirty spotted uniform and a three days stubble of whiskers on his face. Such a man lacks self respect, and self respect is an essential of dignity. There may be occasions when your work entails dirty clothes and an unshaven face. Your men all look that way at such time. There's ample reason for your appearance. In fact, it would be a mistake to look too clean. They would think that you were not doing your share. But as soon as this unusual occasion is passed, set an example for personal neatness. Kind of a big deal. And then I would mention courage. Moral courage you need, as well as mental courage, that kind of moral courage which enables you to adhere without faltering to a determined course of action which your judgment has indicated is the best one suited to secure the desired results. You will find many times, especially in action, and he means combat action, that after having issued your orders to do a certain thing, you will be beset by misgivings and doubts. You will see or think you see, other and better means for accomplishing the object sought. You will be strongly tempted to change your orders. Don't do it until it is clearly manifested that your first orders were radically wrong. For if you do, you will begin. You will again be worried by doubts as to the efficacy of your second orders. I have a little bit of beef with that. My beef with that is you make a call and he says to wait until it is clearly manifested that your call was radically wrong. To me, that's a little bit much. Right. I don't need to. I don't need to see clear manifestation and I don't need to see radically wrong. I can see strong indications that this is a bad move. Now, I do you ever heard me say plan your dive? Dive your plan?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah, there's a reason for that. And that doesn't only apply to diving most of the time, like we plan, we briefly, we rehearse. Sticking to that is a smart move. And. And Thinking that you're going to make some quick adjustment. It's. It doesn't go well. Plan your dive. Dive your plan. Now if you're diving your plan and you're. It's not, you see that it is clearly wrong. You know, maybe not radically, what is it? Radically what? Maybe not radical disaster, radically wrong. But you start going, oh yeah, this is not, this is not effective. You don't need to wait until it's clear, crystal clear. You can be like, oh yeah, this is not going well. And what you can do this doesn't mean you need to, doesn't mean you stop and do something totally different. But you can, you can make some, start making some small adjustments to mitigate your bad call. Every time you change orders without obvious reason, you weaken your authority and impair the confidence of your men. Have the moral cords to stand by your order and see it through again. If you're telling someone to do something and it's not working, you should have the humility to be like, oh, this was a bad call. Stop what you're doing, come back over here. Moral courage further demands that you assume the responsibility for your own acts. That'd be a good idea for a book, wouldn't it? Assuming responsibility for your own acts. If your subordinates have loyalty, have loyally carried out your orders, and the movement you directed is a failure, the failure is yours, not theirs. Yours would have been the honor had it been successful. Take the blame if it results in disaster. Don't try and shift it to a subordinate and make him the goat. That is a cowardly act. So there you go. When you make a mistake, you need to take ownership of your mistake.

[B]

Let's say goat. That means escape.

[A]

Yeah, he means scapegoat, not goat.

[B]

Great clarity.

[A]

Furthermore, you will need moral courage to determine the fate of those under you. You will frequently be called upon for recommendations for promotion or demotion of officers and non commissioned officers in your immediate command. Keep clearly in mind your personal integrity and the duty you owe your country. Do not let yourself be deflected from a strict sense of justice by feelings of personal friendship. If your own brother is your second lieutenant and you find him unfit to hold his commission, eliminate him. If you don't, your lack of moral, moral courage may result in the loss of valuable lives.

[B]

So moral courage, I mean, I've actually recently been hearing that a lot, that expression, moral courage. So that is just to be just in the spirit of understanding. That's what during the. Doing the right thing, right. Even when it's uncomfortable Painful in the short term.

[A]

Yes. And. And doing the right thing, even though there's a heavy price to pay, and it's not a physical price. It's. It's, you know, courage. Physical courage is like, I'm gonna do this thing and I could die.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Or I. I will get hurt or whatever. There's huge sacrifices that I. That I might have to make to make this thing happen. But moral courage is like, oh, I might get in trouble. I might, you know, have to answer to the man. You know, there's. I might get canceled from this thing that I'm supposed to be doing. All those things would be moral courage.

[B]

And it's. Correct me if I'm wrong, so. And. But it has to be based on doing, quote, unquote, the right thing.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Doing the right thing.

[A]

100.

[B]

Because regular, even, like. Like, it doesn't have to be physical courage. If it's like, I don't know, freaking having, like, courage, like a hard talk with somebody or something like that. That's not necessarily moral courage. That's just like, hey, sack up, you know, or if you're gonna ask for a raise, you know, all this stuff.

[A]

Moral courage is like a whistleblower.

[B]

Yeah. Standing up for somebody, like a bully or something like this. Yeah.

[A]

That's moral courage. Now, if the bully's gonna kick your ass.

[B]

It's both.

[A]

It's a little bit of both. You know what I'm saying?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. And I was about to talk about moral injury. Right. And this is when things happened where. This is the. You know, I really first started hearing this from General Mukayama. You know, he's. He's very involved with the moral courage thing. Or. Sorry, the moral injury thing. This is when something happened that you witnessed, you participated in, and it was you. You did the wrong thing, and now you have a moral wound because you feel like you did the wrong thing. Maybe you feel like you should have stood up. Maybe you felt like you didn't take the action you should have taken from them. And it wasn't. It didn't have anything to do with physical courage. Like, oh, I'm a coward because I didn't do this thing. I'm a physical coward. But, oh, this thing happened and I didn't report it, or I didn't, you know, stop it from happening when I should have. And, you know, if, you know, in Vietnam, you know, the My Lai massacre. Right. If someone was there and they didn't participate in it, but they didn't, like, tell people to stop, they might have a moral injury because now they feel the guilt of not doing the right thing. They did. They know they didn't have the moral courage to stop it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Continuing on. If, on the other hand, you are called upon for recommendation concerning a man whom for personal reasons you thought thoroughly dislike, do not fail to do him full justice. Remember that aim is the general good, not the satisfaction of an individual grudge. I'm taking for granted that you will have physical courage. I need not tell you how necessary that is. Courage is more than bravery. Bravery is fearlessness, the absence of fear. The nearest, the merest dolt may be brave because he lacks the mental. The mentality to appreciate his danger. He doesn't know enough to be afraid. Courage. You never tell you about my, my fearlessness in Africa?

[B]

No, I don't think so.

[A]

Leif and I were in Africa and we were working with a company down there. And after we worked with the company, we went on, we went to like a. A park. And the parks down there is where the elephants, the rhinoceroses, the lions, tigers, like, like straight up safari. Safari park, right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But so we go to this safari park and we're. It's a long drive. We're in Johannesburg and we drive and, you know, I'm in the vehicle and we're talking because we're with a guy, great dude. And, and we're all talking and carrying on and it's like a three, four something hour drive. And at some point we were driving and there was like this beautiful sunset.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And I go, oh, dude, let me like get a picture of the sunset. You know, it's like looking out over the plains, right. So I'm like, hey. And I tell the guy that's driving, I'm like, hey, you know, will you stop the car? So I get a picture of the sunset and he's like, yeah. So he pop. He stops the car and I just like get out of the car and I kind of. Because, you know, I don't want to take it through the window or whatever. So I get out of the car and I kind of like line up and get a couple shots, you know, walk around a little bit, check it out, get a good angle.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I get back in the car and, you know, we start driving. Well, it turns out that during our conversation I had missed the fact that we had entered this, this park, right. And he, you know, he just thought, dude, Jocko just, you know, he just, he'll just deal with it. Like, he just got like, he's like, he just, I Guess he'll take on whatever lion, you know, hyena, whatever. He's ready for it. Like, Jocko, like, because. But what I. But I saw when we left, you go through, like, a gate and it's like, do not get out of your car. You are entering the safari zone. You are. You know, there's all these dangerous animals. They will kill you. We literally drove by a sign that said that you missed it. So I just rolled, got out of my car, started, you know, whatever, taking some pictures. And it wasn't until, like, like late, I guess, later on that night, they're like, yeah, dude. You just kind of just got out of the car. And I was like, well, what do you mean? They're like, this is an open. Because it's weird. In Africa, all the. All the animals are in these game reserves. Like, there's no. There's no, like, a lion that's just walking around in. In the clear. In the public. Because they'll kill people. People, right? So they're all. You think. You think it's that way? Like, in America, like, there's a moose walk walking out through, like, a town.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, you see that, right? You know, you see grizzly bear walking, like, digging through garbage. Like, that's the way it is in America. But in Africa, it's not like that. Partially because these are like, like, not. I don't even. What's more ferocious, a grizz or a damn lion or. But. But they keep them all, like, cooped up, you know?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Not cooped up because. Because the land reserves are huge.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, they're. It'd be like if we put a fence around our public lands.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, if we. If. If we put a fence around freaking Yellowstone and we're like, hey, you know, they can't get out and you can't go in and when even. But the crazy thing is, it was like Jurassic park. Like, once we got to our little cabins where we stayed, there's an electric ass fence. Like, they're. And it's like Jurassic park, you know?

[B]

Hell, yeah.

[A]

And I didn't realize I was just in the clear, just walking around. So. So to put it the way he put it, I was adult.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

A mere dolt. Because I lacked the freaking mentality to appreciate the danger at all. And I think Leif was kind of like. Well, you know, you know, like. And. And actually his wife Jenna was with us too. It's kind of like, hey, Jocko. Just goes hard. Yeah. That's just what we're doing. You know, hey, let's go. No, I'm not tough. I'm just dumb. Not courageous. Just too stupid to know any better. So that's one of those moments where. But luckily nothing happened. And then like five minutes later, we see rhinos, like, for real. And boy, those rhinos, do they look, they look like they were gonna, they look like if they wanted to do. You don't stand a chance, bro. I, I, I made eye contact with it, and we're in a car. We're wearing like a Land Rover, right? And I make eye contact with this thing, and I was like, this thing can completely kill, not just me, and not if I get out. Like, I felt like if it, if it got fired up. Yeah, it doesn't matter. You're in a car. It, I mean, this thing, I don't know how much they weigh, but they're as big as a car and they got a freaking giant ass horn.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

You know that, that thing will kill you. Yeah. And he didn't look happy, bro. He looked pissed. He looked pissed. You know what I'm saying?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That was a weird thing because most of the time when I make eye contact with something, I'm kind of sizing him up, and I kind of feeling pretty good about it. No, no, did not feel good about that.

[B]

Makes sense.

[A]

But it was a badass. Like in that Jurassic park, when he got in the camp thing, there's like straight up activities going on, you know. Hey, have you ever seen a giraffe? Do you know what a giraffe's primary weapon is?

[B]

What?

[A]

You know, how they defend itself and how they, like, fight and kill and all that stuff?

[B]

I don't know, but if I were to guess, I would say the, the feet.

[A]

Nope.

[B]

The legs, bro.

[A]

They use their head and they swing their head on that long ass neck and like, hit. Oh, like a wrecking ball.

[B]

Yeah, like a wrecking ball.

[A]

Yeah, like a wrecking ball. And then I went with Jason Gardner. We went to a damn special zoo in Nebraska, and we got to feed, like, rhinos and stuff.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

But the, the damn, Damn. You wouldn't want to get hit in the head with that.

[B]

No.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No, A lot of these, I mean, yeah, a lot of these animals. Like, you know, you see them on TV and you're like, yeah, cool. That's freaking crazy. But then you see me in real life. You're like, bro, this thing is way bigger than I thought. Like, way bigger and wider, like.

[A]

Yeah. And they have the, they have a different strength than humans. Yeah, you Know what I'm saying? Like, when you wrestle. When you wrestle, like any animal, it just feels stronger than a person.

[B]

Yeah. Like, even my little dog is, like, pretty impressively scrappy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

For, you know, its size. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Pound for pound, pound.

[A]

Animals are. Are just, like, kind of stronger than that.

[B]

Hey, whatever happened to the picture?

[A]

The picture? The picture, the picture.

[B]

The sunset.

[A]

Oh, I probably have to go look for. I could find it.

[B]

Oh, you still have it.

[A]

Yeah, I'm sure I do.

[B]

Yeah, right.

[A]

I'm sure I have. It's a good pick. You know, luckily, I'm alive.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

No, life was about to film me getting just brutalized. Actually, it's funny that. That was a good one, too. Like, a. A damn elephant. We were in a. In a Land Rover. An elephant, Like, I don't want to exaggerate. Elephant came close to us. You know what I mean?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And, like, real close.

[B]

Right?

[A]

And. And, bro, if that thing wanted to kill you, you don't. You don't stand a chance, man. Like, if that thing. If that thing just had one fake out, which the fake out would be, I'm gonna walk close to this Land Rover, and then when I get close enough, I'm gonna knock it over and kill everyone inside.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, some of us would be able to run away, you know?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Can't get everybody if they're scattering.

[A]

Yeah. Like, I don't think they'll be able to get everyone because it was just one. But. But I videoed that too.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it was pretty. It was pretty interesting. The weird thing about elephants, when they're moving, they're so big, they look like they're moving in slow motion. They're huge.

[B]

Oh, yeah. In Honolulu, back in the day, elephant got loose from.

[A]

I remember that show. Hell, yeah, I remember that.

[B]

But, yeah, you don't want to mess around.

[A]

I was. I. I'm scared of elephants. I understand completely because I was in Thailand and I went to, like, an elephant park, and it's not cool. Like, the elephants are not happy. They're chained up, and they probably get beaten. But I didn't know that going into it. I went into it like, oh, cool, elephants, Right? And I was feeding the elephants. They give you, like. You can buy bananas, right? So I buy some bananas. Gonna feed the elephants. And these are not big, giant elephants. These are, like, kind of smaller type elephants. And I start feeding the elephants, and they start getting a gr. Like, they're. They want. They want what I got. And finally I was kind of running low and I was close to this elephant. You know elephants, their head is sort of vertical. Like. Their head is vertical, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I was standing right in front of its head, and it. It bucked and it threw me through the air. It threw me through the air. I had no. I had. No. I had nothing for it. No, I had nothing for it.

[B]

Dang. So it assaulted you? Yeah.

[A]

Salt to me. And I was like, yo, I want it. I wanna. I wanna leave here. But. But that's why I don't. I don't. I don't mess with elephants.

[B]

Well, I'm.

[A]

They're mean.

[B]

I'm a thousand percent with you. And I feel like this was, like, pretty much.

[A]

Why, when they. When they got after it.

[B]

No, no, that was. That was in Honolulu. So I only was on Holland for, like, five years, but, yeah, it jammed up a guy, too. I don't know if he did it. I think it might have killed him. I don't know. I forget. But there's video of it.

[A]

I've heard this, and I have to read re. I. I fre. I don't know if this is. I've heard this for a long time, so I don't know if it was just some Internet rumor, because this is pre. Internet rumor for me. But I heard that in Africa, if, like, an elephant kills a person, they have to kill all those elephants because it just learned, like, they all just learned, like, oh, we don't need to take on these little ant things.

[B]

I heard that. I've heard that before.

[A]

So.

[B]

Huh? The. Yeah, bro. I don't mess with any wild animals at all. I think it's like a. You know, like, we get into this almost like collective complacency kind of like. Oh, yeah. They're like pets at the zoo, like a petting zoo, you know, and they forget that, like, no, brother. Freaking giraffe. Like, just like how you said, like, they look kind of cute and pretty or whatever.

[A]

You know. What a big sucker is in America is moose. Because. Because, you know, moose, they kind of look a little bit dopey and friendly.

[B]

Yeah, they're kind of like.

[A]

They're the meanest of those type of animals, you know? I mean, not as mean as a grizz, but, like, they're. They will kill you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like a moose will. It will run roughshod all over your head.

[B]

Moose is one of those animals that I was surprised on how huge those are.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like a moose. And I've never seen a polar bear, but there was, like, this video saying, oh, five animals that are way bigger in real life or something. And it showed a polar bear next to like a person. I was like, bro, that's like AI. Then you go look it up at the numbers and you're. Bro, that thing is freaking. Like it's huge. Yeah, it's like a monstrously huge.

[A]

Polar bears are like the, the most like legit if you're going out, bro, like if I'm going out, I'll take that polar bear. Like just let's go in the glory. You know what I mean?

[B]

It's like pretty impressive.

[A]

Yeah. Like that thing's just gonna. That, that thing. You know when you eat, imagine us. Imagine a cherry. You know when you eat a cherry, Imagine a cherry. When you take up. When you take a whole cherry and you bite it, that's what your head is to a polar bear. Like one shot, there's that crunch, boom. Like this is game over. Yeah.

[B]

No mess with the animals. Yeah.

[A]

I was getting, I was hunting with Dudley and we were, we were going after a elk and then there was a, a mountain lion that was going after it and we kind of were behind it. It was like, bro, if that thing wanted to get you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You wouldn't know it, Brian. Just grab you by the head. Just them big ass claws.

[B]

Yeah. Even small mountain lions are. Can like jam you up. Pretty hardcore.

[A]

Yeah. Although there was one article about a guy like beating up a mountain lion and it was kind of in the headlines and they showed a picture of. It was like, it was like a large cat. Like a large house.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And hey bro, like a large house cat. That thing will jack you up too. With all kinds of scrapes towards your eyes and stuff.

[B]

Oh yeah. So the, and I run, you know, I have a canyon by my house. It's like it's trails. That's where I go get my road work from time to time every day, by the way. But they, there's not mountain lions, but they're those like a Bob. Bobcats. Exactly right. And I saw one and they're like pretty cool. I wasn't scared of that thing, bro. I was like, bro, I would kill that thing. Like if it came down to it, I would win. But it just like how you said, you know, like a house cat when they get real aggressive and scratch you. Yeah. Like wanted. Like if it caught a vein or something. Oh, you could die for sure. Oh yeah. But yeah, they're not, they're not impressive like how you see on like, I don't know, movies or whatever.

[A]

But then the mountain lion Thing. But the weird thing is, you've heard Rogan, when Rogan talks about, like, chimpanzees, like, they go for your eyes, like your. Your testicles and stuff. Like out of the. The gate, they're just chewing your face off. I wonder if a cat knows that too. You know what I mean? Like, is a cat like, oh, I'm going for eyes?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because then you're. You're screwed.

[B]

Yeah, they. They kind of have this kind of thing to them where they. They got things figured out a little bit more than like a. A random dog. Just the. The vibe. I mean.

[A]

Yeah. Like dogs. Dogs will bite your arm or your leg, and kind of. That's partially because that's how they were trained, but also they're just like, when you watch a dog fight another dog, they're going for the back legs that incapacitate it, right?

[B]

Oh, yeah. No, I didn't notice that.

[A]

But if. If it knew. But also, a dog doesn't have the dexterity to go after your eyes. Like a cat.

[B]

Yeah, that's cat.

[A]

One slash at the eyes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're. You're in trouble.

[B]

You're screwed.

[A]

And not to mention, you could grab onto your face with one, like, with three paws, and you just get at the eyes with the other one. I don't know if they have the ability to do that, though. You know what I mean?

[B]

They're pretty freaking agile.

[A]

That's what I'm saying.

[B]

Yeah. Even like a dog.

[A]

No, I don't have the ability. I know they have the physical ability. Do they have the cognitive capacity to recognize that? That would be a real game changer, you know what I'm saying? Like a real game changer. Never mind. It's like. Like trying to bite your eyes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I bet we would know if they did that, because Rogan seems to know with confidence, by the way, that the chips are getting there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The chimps. But maybe that's because they're similar to us and they know how to win a fight against themselves. Each other.

[B]

Feels like it. Yeah.

[A]

Like they would just get in there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Dogs are kind of dumb. Comparative. Not dumb, but they feel kind of dumb, comparatively speaking.

[A]

Yeah, but there's a whole spectrum of dogs.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Like, some dogs are. They're so smart.

[B]

Like, you ever, like, all, like, I'll taunt my dog. And thankfully she knows that. They're like, I'm playing, but, you know, it's trying to bite you. It's like it's chomping at every little thing. Even, like Faint. Faints. You know, like she's like reacting to faints. But cats, it feels like they kind of know what a faint is.

[A]

But the weird thing is, you ever seen when you ever see people throw cheese at a cat and a dog, like randomly throw a piece of cheese at a dog and it just like immediately bites. Eats it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And a cat, it like, like discombobulates them. They fall over and stuff. Yeah, it's a whole thing.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

It's a whole thing.

[B]

That's why I don't mess around. But it's unpredictable.

[A]

That's what I'm saying. The animals. The animals. All right, back to the book. Courage, however, is that firmness of spirit, that moral backbone, while fully appreciating the danger involved, nevertheless goes on with the undertaking. Like, if I would have known what was outside of that vehicle, I wouldn't have gotten out of it. Bravery is physical. Courage is mental and moral. You may be cold all over, your hands may tremble, your legs may quake, your knees may be ready to give way. That is fear. If, nevertheless you go forward, if, in spite of this physical defection, you continue to lead your men against the enemy, you have courage. The physical manifestations of fear will pass away. You may never experience them, but once. They are the buck fever of the hunter who tries to shoot his first deer. You must not give way to them. A number of years ago, while taking a demolitions course, the class of which I was a member was handling dynamite, the instructor said, regarding its manipulation, I must caution you gentlemen to be careful in the use of these explosions, explosives. One man has but one accident. And so I would caution you. If you give way to fear, that will doubtless beset you in your first action. If you show the white feather, if you let your men go forward while you hunt a shell crater, you will never again have the opportunity of leading those men. Jack, use your judgment in calling on your men for displays of physical courage or bravery. Don't ask any man to go where you would not go yourself. If your common sense tells you that the place is too dangerous for you to venture into, then it is too dangerous for him. You know his life is as valuable to him as yours is to you. Occasionally, some of your men might be exposed to danger which you cannot share. A message must be taken across a fire swept zone. You call for volunteers. If your men know you and know that you are, are right, you will never lack volunteers, for they will know your heart is in your work. That you are giving your country the best you have, that you Would willingly carry the message yourself if you could. Your example and enthusiasm will have inspired them. And lastly, if you inspire to leadership, I would urge you to study men. Get under their skins and find out what is inside. Some men are quite different from what they appear to be on the surface. Determine the workings of their mind. Much of General Robert E. Lee's success as a leader may be ascribed to his ability as a psychologist. He knew most of his opponents from West Point days, knew the workings of their minds, and he believed that they would do certain things under certain circumstances. In nearly every case he was able to anticipate their movements and block the execution. You cannot know your opponent in this war the same way, but you can know your own men. You can study each to determine wherein lies his strength and his weakness, which man can be relied upon to the last gasp and which cannot. And he closes it out with something that has been adopted by the, by the military, by the army. Know your men, know your business, know yourself. And that's what we got. Know your men, know your business, know yourself. Such a, such a great document and so much is so applicable today because it's all based on human nature and technology changes and environments change and business changes and combat changes. But at the end of the day, we as humans, our nature doesn't really change. And Colonel Christian Albert Bach died in 1944, but left us these lessons we can still apply today. So of course you also mentioned physical vitality.

[B]

Yeah, Hell yeah.

[A]

Critical part of leadership to be able to endure physically. And you know what, sometimes people think that they can just rise to the occasion. You know what I mean?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Hey, you know, if I really, if I really needed to do it, I could do it. That's actually not freaking true. Yeah, you might be able to do a little bit more. A little bit more. But if it comes down to it and you got to do a rope climb and you haven't been climbing ropes and you haven't been doing pull ups, I don't care how bad you want it, you can't get up that rope. You gotta put, you gotta carry somebody, got a buddy, carry somebody. You can do it for, you know, maybe do it for 30, 40 meters. Then you just gotta start going uphill. What happens? You get your muscle failure, right? That's a real thing, muscle failure. It doesn't matter how much mental will you try to summon to make something happen, it ain't happening, it ain't happening. You the, where you need to use your mental will is in the preparation. You got to Prepare. Which means we need to lift, we need to run, we need to sprint, we need to train. Jiu jitsu. We need to. Need to surf, swim, rock. We need to get after it. That's what we need to do. When we do that, by the way, we need fuel. I recommend Jocko fuel. You need protein. You need milk, protein powder. Ready to drink the whole nine yards. You need energy. We got you covered. You need hydration. We got you covered. You need supplementation. We got you covered. Joint warfare. Highly recommend. Super Krill. Highly recommend. Every day. Time war. Highly recommend. Every day. That's what we're doing. If you want to get on the path, check out jockeyfield.com. sounds like you need some cold war. What do you got going on over there? You okay? You all right? I feel like coughing up a storm. You have to. Even making yourself. You're gonna have to edit. People won't hear it because you. You're gonna edit it out? No, but you've caused yourself a couple edits here. That's an extra labor for Echo Charles.

[B]

I don't feel like I'm sick in any way. I feel like I inhaled something. You know, you inhale something, like some dust, something. Something physical.

[A]

Okay. Yeah, that's what it feels like. That's annoying.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Jockofield.com. go to your store. You can get it. We're all over the country now. Appreciate the support. It's weird in. In this modern age, people know, like, exactly what's being sold in the store. They know. So it's every time you roll in and you grab yourself a rtd, ready to drink, as they call it. Or you grab a bag of protein powder. Delicious horchata flavor.

[B]

Wait, is there really horchata?

[A]

Yeah, we just made horchata.

[B]

Wait, is that the. The. This is a pro series. And then there's og.

[A]

Og.

[B]

Okay. All right. Dang. That's interesting. Cuz my kids freaking love that. I was unfamiliar with it. Like, I heard it. Yeah. But I never, like, had any. And then we. This was maybe, I don't know, two months ago or something like this, and they got it. I was like, oh, bro, this is kind of different. I dig it.

[A]

The thing that's. It's very sweet. Like, it ain't healthy. The. The regular.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The real, you know. But our Horata.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Tasty.

[B]

What is it, like a cinnamon scenario? Yeah.

[A]

So it's horchata.

[B]

Yeah. So the. Yeah, like cinnamon. So you know how you have the. What I'm. The point here is that that's A good move because you know the fruity cereal one, right? And I remember thinking, oh, that's a good idea. But my favorite cereal milk remnants scenario is Fruity Pebbles Cinnamon Toast Crunch.

[A]

Oh, okay, we're good with that.

[B]

Oh, I didn't know we had it. Yeah, I know. You know, we're good to go.

[A]

That's why we're here, man. Check it out. Jockofuel.com or go to a store and get yourself what you need. Also check out Origin USA.com and get yourself some American made gear. By the way, women's jeans. Yeah, it's been a long time coming, but the women jeans, women's jeans, check them out. My wife got one of the prototype pairs and they were already good to go.

[B]

Yeah, I saw a video.

[A]

Favorite jean, favorite jeans, by the way.

[B]

Oh, yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Oh, because that's all minor.

[A]

You know Katie from Echelon front.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

She gave me like a rundown of why those, those women's jeans are the best jeans. She went full. She gave me every detail that there was like things that I don't even know, bro.

[B]

That was my whole point.

[A]

The fit, the whole nine yards.

[B]

Yeah, the video that I saw is like, you know, the, you know, I don't know, maybe four, four or five ladies, you know, wearing the jeans. And bro, they're just giving the report and I'm like, bro, they put, they know there are so many more elements to gene fit and all this other stuff compared to like a guy's jeans that I'm aware of. Anyway, so I, you know, I got my 1, 2, 3 elements of criteria and I'm kind of good to go.

[A]

Gtg.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

For the females, they got. She was telling me, I can't even remember what she was saying. Like, it was a, it was a list of excellence.

[B]

Good.

[A]

A list of excellence. She's like. And she, you know, she's a, she's an athlete. She's a jiu jitsu player. And she's like telling me why they're so good.

[B]

It makes sense too, because let's face it, the, the, generally speaking, the female body has more curves and angles and like all this other stuff than let's say, generally speaking, a male body. So I, that makes sense because in the video they're like, oh, it fits here, but a lot of times it doesn't fit here when it fits here. So. But this one fits here and here. You see, I'm saying. So it's like the little, the ratios. Yeah, we're a Little bit more intense, I think.

[A]

And by the way, 100American made. And are we selling them for $480 the way other companies try and sell American made jeans? No, we're not. We're not. They. They are in the zone. So check out originusa.com/ you got jeans for you, geese for you, rash guards for you. I mean, this is what we do from the ground up. American made. No comp, no communism. Communist free jeans. It's important. A lot of people, so you don't know it. A lot of people, they're putting on communist infused jeans. You know what I mean? And then they're wearing communism and that communism is infusing into their body. Next thing you know, they're a slave. Someone puts on a pair of origin genes, freedom is infusing into their body and they go out and take ownership of the world. That's what. That's what we're doing. Doing. So check out OriginUSA.com. get some American made gear.

[B]

It's true. Yes. Also, jocko store freaking in full effect at this time. You know, we got the new get after it out. That was kind of clever. You look close on that one. It looks clever. There's layers. I told you. I think I told you this.

[A]

Yeah, I know. The layers.

[B]

Okay. What's the layers?

[A]

The layers are tape. Yep. The layers are JP Dennell putting tape on his helmet that says jp.

[B]

Yeah. Because you asked him to.

[A]

Because I was like, hey, put JP on your helmet in big letters because I want to be able to see you on the battlefield.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So you can handle.

[B]

So when you told that story, I was like, okay, that's a cool story. Actually, JP told the story, so I was like, oh, yeah, that's pretty legit. And then when I saw the actual picture.

[A]

Yeah. Of JP's, JP has that helmet.

[B]

Yeah. So I figured Sharpie or something like this. And I'm like, cool. And just, you know, never gave a second thought. But when I saw the actual. It was like, with this black tape. It's like tape. I was, oh, that's a good look right there. Plus, JP gets after it. Let's face it, there's a video called JP getting after.

[A]

There's a reason why I was like, jp put JP on your helmet so I can see you. Because I might need you to get after it in a certain way.

[B]

Exactly. Right.

[A]

At a certain time. And he's. He's the kind of mfer that will get after us.

[B]

Yes, exactly.

[A]

Factually.

[B]

Jp, the freaking get after it instrument.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In this case, I'm saying. So yeah, I took inspiration from that whole scenario. And they get after his main tape looks dope.

[A]

That's.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. So that's the new one also, you know. Good. We got an updated. Good. We got an updated Discipline equals freedom.

[A]

It's kind of, just kind of good

[B]

to go at this.

[A]

Yeah. GTG, as they say.

[B]

All on Jocko store.com. sure. Locker subscription. New design every month. People seem to like it. Guys at the Mustard, we just got back, by the way. Guys at the Mustard were like, they didn't know. They're like, hey, I saw a shirt that said sugar coated lies and it had that symbol, you know, the next leg symbol. It's like, yeah, bro, that's the one from the shirt locker. So the design's a little bit more what creative? We'll say outside the box. We'll say, you see, I'm saying. But anyway, check it out. Go. If you click on the top where it says shirt locker, you can see kind of what it is all about. And yeah, man, if you want to subscribe to that.

[A]

Get it, get it. We got some books. Put your legs on by Rob Jones. We got need to lead by Dave Burke. I've written a bunch of books. Extreme ownership dichotomy, Leadership Leadership strategy and tactics, Discipline equals freedom. Field manual and a bunch of kids books. So check all those out. Also check out primalbeef.com you need steak. So you. If you go to primalbeef.com you can get steak delivered to your house. Also Colorado Craft Beef can deliver steak to your house. So check out primalbeef.com check out Colorado craftbeef.com Echelon Front, we have a leadership consultancy. We solve problems through leadership. If you need help inside your organization, go to echelonfront.com if you want to come to one of our live events, go to echelonfront.com and also if you can't come one of our events, you can go to extremeownership.com and you can learn the skills of leadership online. So check that out. And if you want to help service members, active and retired, you want to help their families, you want to help gold star families, check out Mark Lee's mom, Mama Lee. She's an amazing woman who had an amazing son and she now has an amazing charity organization. If you want to donate or you want to get involved, go to America's Mighty Warriors. Also please check out heroes and horses.org and finally, Jimmy May's organization beyond the brotherhood.org and if you want to connect with us, check out jocko.com and then on social media, I'm at Jocko Willink. Echoes at Echo. Charles Just don't spend too much time there because it ain't healthy. It's a monster. Thanks to all the soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines deployed right now in harm's way around the world protecting us and our freedom. We are grateful. We are also grateful to our police, law enforcement, firefighters, paramedics, EMTs, dispatchers, correctional officers, border patrol, secret service and all other first responders. Thank you for protecting us here at home and everyone else out there. We got some lessons today. Keep your emotions in check, have self control and have physical vitality, which you got to work for and you got to earn. Make light of your troubles, belittle your trials and of course, assume responsibility for your own actions. The people that you lead, they ask nothing more than that. So go get after it. And that's all we got for tonight. And until next time, this is Echo and Jocko out.