Episode Summary: Jocko Podcast #481 - "Deeds. Not Words." with Airborne Ranger Will Bardenwerper

In this compelling episode of the Jocko Podcast, retired Navy SEAL Jocko Willink and co-host Echo Charles engage in an in-depth conversation with Will Bardenwerper, a former Airborne Ranger and accomplished author. Released on March 12, 2025, episode 481 delves into themes of discipline, leadership, military service, and the profound impacts of warfare on both individuals and communities.

Introduction

[00:00] Jocko Willink:

"This is Jocko podcast number 481 with Echo Charles and me, Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo."

[00:07] Jocko Willink:

"In January 2006 I stepped off a C130 in Tal Afar, Iraq... But what strikes me is the disparity between the lives of the few who are fighting and the many who are asked to continue shopping."

Jocko sets the stage by reflecting on his deployment in Iraq and highlighting the disconnect between military personnel's sacrifices and the civilian population's indifference.

Early Life and Education

[05:00] Will Bardenwerper:

"My childhood... was a typical middle-class, upper-middle-class, suburban childhood outside Washington D.C. in Bethesda, Maryland."

Will shares insights into his upbringing as the eldest of five children, emphasizing his father's role as a lawyer and his mother's dedication to raising their large family. He proudly notes being the first in his family to attend an Ivy League school—Princeton—followed by his younger siblings.

[06:21] Jocko Willink:

"Did you inherit any of the firstborn kind of stereotypical traits? Like, are you a hyper rule follower?"

Will responds affirmatively, attributing his competitive nature and strong work ethic to both parental influence and innate disposition.

Career in Finance

[23:14] Will Bardenwerper:

"I contacted some people I knew from school and got a job in equity capital markets in Manhattan. It was demanding but not as relentless as some of my future experiences."

Will recounts his brief but intense tenure in the high-stakes world of investment banking in Manhattan, contrasting it with the military's Spartan lifestyle.

Impact of 9/11 and Transition to Military

[24:58] Will Bardenwerper:

"Yes, September 11th happened while I was working in finance. It was a pivotal moment that changed my career path."

The events of September 11, 2001, profoundly influence Will, inspiring him to leave his lucrative finance career to serve his country. Despite his initial interest in joining the Marine Corps, logistical challenges and opportunities led him to enlist in the Army.

Military Training and Ranger School

[31:25] Jocko Willink:

"How long did it take before you actually left for boot camp?"

Will details his rigorous journey through Army Basic Training and Officer Candidate School (OCS), culminating in the grueling Ranger School.

[37:00] Will Bardenwerper:

"Ranger School was, to date, the hardest thing I've ever done. The lack of sleep and minimal food took a severe toll."

Will candidly discusses his struggles with Ranger School, particularly his difficulty with knot-tying—a skill crucial for Ranger operations.

[41:02] Will Bardenwerper:

"I ended up recycling to the beginning of the phase because I couldn't tie a single knot correctly."

Despite initial setbacks, Will persevered, eventually succeeding in Ranger School after intensive retraining and mental fortitude.

Leadership and Deployment

[49:58] Will Bardenwerper:

"It was infantry platoon leader in Germany. Inheriting a platoon without combat experience was challenging."

Upon completing Ranger School, Will assumes command of an infantry platoon in Germany. He emphasizes the critical role of effective leadership and mentorship in military units.

Deployment in Iraq and Counterinsurgency

[56:26] Will Bardenwerper:

"Deploying to Tal Afar under Colonel McFarland was a transformative experience. We focused on counterinsurgency and building relationships with local tribes."

Will describes his deployment to Tal Afar, Iraq, highlighting the successful implementation of counterinsurgency tactics under Colonel Sean McFarland's leadership. He underscores the importance of cultural understanding and community engagement in stabilizing conflict zones.

[60:09] Will Bardenwerper:

"Travis Patrick, the brigade civil-military operations officer, created impactful strategies like 'How to Win in Al Anbar,' which was instrumental in our success."

The collaboration with specialized officers like Travis Patrick showcases innovative approaches to military operations that prioritize winning hearts and minds over purely kinetic actions.

Experiences in Iraq

[68:40] Will Bardenwerper:

"Building police stations staffed by tribal leaders significantly improved local security and reduced insurgent recruitment."

Will elaborates on specific initiatives aimed at empowering local governance and security forces, fostering long-term stability in the region.

[72:06] Jocko Willink:

"The loss of Travis and Megan was devastating. It reminded us of the personal costs of war."

Tragically, Will recounts the deaths of close comrades, reinforcing the unpredictable and perilous nature of military service.

Writing and Publishing

[87:58] Will Bardenwerper:

"After leaving the military, I pursued writing, initially facing rejection from top editors who critiqued my storytelling approach."

Will shares the challenges he faced in transitioning to a civilian career as an author. Despite early setbacks, his determination led to eventual success.

[102:14] Jocko Willink:

"Can you tell us about 'Prisoner in His Palace' and your interactions with Saddam Hussein?"

Book: "Prisoner in His Palace"

[120:06] Will Bardenwerper:

"The book explores the complex relationship between soldiers and Saddam Hussein, highlighting moments of unexpected humanity amidst conflict."

Through vivid storytelling, Will examines the intricate dynamics between American soldiers and their Iraqi captor, Saddam Hussein. He grapples with questions of manipulation versus genuine human connection, providing a nuanced portrayal that challenges traditional narratives of enemy engagement.

Book: "Homestand, Small Town Baseball and the Fight for the Soul of America"

[129:07] Jocko Willink:

"In your book, you draw parallels between minor league baseball and community bonds. Can you elaborate?"

Will delves into his second book, illustrating how small-town baseball serves as a unifying force in communities facing adversity. He contrasts the intimate, supportive environment of local sports with the impersonal nature of major professional leagues, emphasizing the essential role of such institutions in fostering social cohesion and mental well-being.

[141:06] Will Bardenwerper:

"The Batavia Muk Dogs symbolize more than just a baseball team; they represent community resilience and the preservation of American values."

Through this narrative, Will underscores the significance of maintaining grassroots sports as pillars of community strength and identity.

Afghanistan War Commission

[175:04] Will Bardenwerper:

"I'm involved with the Afghanistan War Commission, aiming to provide an objective account of our 20 years in Afghanistan to inform future policy decisions."

Will discusses his role in a bipartisan commission tasked with analyzing the U.S. military engagement in Afghanistan. He highlights the importance of learning from past mistakes to guide strategic objectives and avoid repeating historical errors.

Reflections and Upcoming Projects

[195:50] Will Bardenwerper:

"Connecting with diverse individuals through sports and community initiatives reveals the true essence of unity and mutual respect."

Will reflects on the broader societal implications of his work, advocating for environments that foster genuine human connections beyond superficial interactions, whether in military contexts or civilian communities.

[196:50] Will Bardenwerper:

"I'm currently working on supporting the Afghanistan War Commission and exploring future writing projects that continue to shed light on critical social and military issues."

Conclusion

The episode concludes with Jocko and Echo expressing gratitude to Will for his service and contributions. They encourage listeners to explore Will's books and engage with his ongoing projects aimed at fostering leadership and understanding within and beyond military circles.

Notable Quotes:

• Will Bardenwerper [07:42]:

  "Thinking back on their experiences did play a role in my motivation to ultimately join the military."

• Will Bardenwerper [36:08]:

  "Ranger School was, to date, the hardest thing I've ever done. The lack of sleep and minimal food took a severe toll."

• Will Bardenwerper [72:06]:

  "Travis Patrick... created impactful strategies like 'How to Win in Al Anbar,' which was instrumental in our success."

• Will Bardenwerper [120:06]:

  "The book explores the complex relationship between soldiers and Saddam Hussein, highlighting moments of unexpected humanity amidst conflict."

• Will Bardenwerper [175:04]:

  "I'm involved with the Afghanistan War Commission, aiming to provide an objective account of our 20 years in Afghanistan to inform future policy decisions."

Recommendations:

Listeners are encouraged to read Will Bardenwerper's insightful books, "Prisoner in His Palace" and "Homestand, Small Town Baseball and the Fight for the Soul of America," to gain deeper perspectives on the interplay between military service, community dynamics, and personal resilience.

Connect with Will Bardenwerper:

• Website: willbardenwerper.com
• Twitter: @willbardenwerper
• Facebook: Will Bardenwerper
• Substack: Personal writing diary (no longer active)

This episode provides a profound exploration of Will Bardenwerper's journey from a finance career to military leadership, and finally to becoming an author tackling complex social and military narratives. His experiences underscore the enduring values of discipline, leadership, and the human capacity to forge meaningful connections even in the most challenging circumstances.