Jocko Podcast Episode 487: What We All Can Learn From Being a "New Guy" with Bobby Holland

Released on April 23, 2025

In Episode 487 of the Jocko Podcast, retired Navy SEAL Jocko Willink engages in a profound conversation with fellow SEAL veteran and entrepreneur Bobby Holland. Titled "What We All Can Learn From Being a 'New Guy'," the episode delves into the foundational principles of discipline, leadership, and personal growth, drawing parallels between military life and civilian endeavors.

Introduction to the "New Guy" Mindset

Jocko Willink opens the discussion by addressing a common query among new SEAL recruits: "What can I do to be a good new guy in a platoon?" He emphasizes that the traits required to excel as a new SEAL are universally applicable to being a good human being.

Jocko Willink [00:05]: "Being a good new guy in a SEAL platoon is actually the same as being a good human being."

Bobby Holland echoes this sentiment, highlighting that fundamental principles learned as a new SEAL extend far beyond military applications.

Bobby Holland [02:23]: "They're fundamentals that last a lifetime."

Core Principles for Success

The conversation unfolds around several key mantras instilled in new SEALs, which Jocko and Bobby assert are essential for success in any field.

1. Keep Your Mouth Shut, Keep Your Ears Open

Jocko recounts his first day at SEAL Team 1, where the Command Master Chief delivered a stern message to the new recruits:

Jocko Willink [05:00]: "...keep your mouth shut, keep your ears open, don't be late, don't forget any gear."

This mantra underscores the importance of humility and active listening. Jocko stresses that leadership positions require even more listening rather than speaking.

Jocko Willink [07:06]: "If you can't show up on time, like can we count on you? That's a problem."

Bobby Holland adds that punctuality reflects one's dedication and reliability to the team.

Bobby Holland [07:17]: "It's kind of a betrayal to the team, you know, just signals that you aren't prioritizing your life accordingly."

2. Look for Work

Transitioning into the idea of decentralized command, Jocko explains that a good SEAL doesn't wait to be directed but proactively seeks tasks to support the mission.

Bobby Holland [16:04]: "You do your primary scan, secondary scan, and then you're looking around with your eyeballs looking for work."

This principle fosters initiative and ensures that every team member contributes effectively without waiting for orders.

3. Be Teachable and Eager to Learn

Both hosts highlight the significance of maintaining a learner’s mindset. Jocko shares how using a notebook to jot down instructions not only helps in retaining information but also signals attentiveness.

Jocko Willink [21:40]: "It is such a good sign when one of my subordinates goes, 'Hey, let me just make sure I understand what you're saying.'"

Bobby Holland reinforces this by sharing experiences of how being open to learning transformed leadership effectiveness.

Bobby Holland [23:39]: "People that were teachable and eager to learn would perform outstanding."

4. The Hard Way is the Right Way

Jocko narrates a harrowing experience during hydrographic reconnaissance where his team chose to follow protocol despite extreme fatigue and adverse conditions.

Jocko Willink [30:49]: "You gotta do the right thing. And no Marines, never would have known."

This anecdote illustrates the uncompromising nature of proper procedures and the long-term benefits of adhering to established protocols.

5. Don't Make the Same Mistake Twice

Acknowledging that mistakes are inevitable, both Jocko and Bobby emphasize the importance of owning up to errors and ensuring they are not repeated.

Bobby Holland [32:22]: "You got to own it. You got to own the shit out of it."

Jocko shares a poignant story about a fellow SEAL's honesty with a Master Chief, reinforcing the value of transparency and accountability.

Jocko Willink [34:22]: "Just tell the truth. Own it."

6. Slow is Smooth, Smooth is Fast

This principle advocates for deliberate and controlled actions over haste, ensuring precision and effectiveness.

Bobby Holland [42:16]: "Smooth and deliberate in some of the decisions that you're making. So you're not being hasty and emotional."

Both hosts relate this to decision-making processes, where taking a moment to assess situations can prevent costly mistakes.

7. Attention to Detail

Attention to detail is portrayed as a cornerstone of reliability. Jocko recounts scenarios where overlooked details led to operational failures, emphasizing that every small aspect contributes to the bigger picture.

Jocko Willink [73:52]: "How you do anything is how you do everything."

Bobby adds that meticulousness not only builds personal reputation but is essential for effective leadership.

Bobby Holland [75:32]: "If you don't know the details, you can't really lead that."

8. Be a Good Follower

Understanding the value of being a good follower is presented as equally important as leadership. Bobby shares insights on respecting the chain of command and supporting team leaders effectively.

Bobby Holland [75:38]: "You gotta be a good follower. Learn the mission. Get yourself informed, get plugged in."

Jocko complements this by highlighting how being a reliable team member enhances overall mission success.

Jocko Willink [84:14]: "If you can count on this dude to be here at this time with the right gear, a hundred percent, that is huge in its own right."

9. Maintain Your Body and Mind

Physical and mental conditioning are intertwined aspects of maintaining peak performance. Both hosts advocate for continuous training and learning to ensure readiness and adaptability.

Bobby Holland [90:13]: "Train and maintain both. If you keep staying, you keep in shape."

Jocko underscores the necessity of consistent physical training to prevent decline.

Jocko Willink [50:28]: "You gotta fight it every day, you gotta get it done every day, you gotta move every day."

Applying Military Principles to Civilian Life

Throughout the episode, Jocko and Bobby draw parallels between SEAL training and civilian life, illustrating how the disciplined mindset developed in the military can lead to success in business, personal relationships, and everyday challenges.

Bobby Holland discusses his transition from the SEAL teams to entrepreneurship with Hooligolf, emphasizing the importance of being adaptable and proactive in learning new skills.

Bobby Holland [24:00]: "I'm doing all these things. I had to ask for help... I'm wearing all these hats."

Jocko Willink relates this to the broader concept of continuous improvement and the ability to pivot when necessary, a trait essential for both warriors and entrepreneurs.

Closing Thoughts and Takeaways

As the episode concludes, Jocko and Bobby reinforce the importance of integrating these fundamental principles into daily life. They advocate for:

• Discipline Equals Freedom: Maintaining discipline in small tasks leads to greater freedom and success.
• Extreme Ownership: Taking full responsibility for one's actions fosters trust and reliability.
• Prioritize and Execute: Identifying the most critical tasks and tackling them systematically ensures mission success.

Jocko Willink [122:05]: "Learn and maintain both. Train and move."

The episode serves as a comprehensive guide for anyone looking to adopt a disciplined and proactive approach to personal and professional growth, inspired by the rigorous training and unwavering principles of Navy SEALs.

Notable Quotes:

• Jocko Willink [00:05]: "Being a good new guy in a SEAL platoon is actually the same as being a good human being."
• Bobby Holland [02:23]: "They're fundamentals that last a lifetime."
• Jocko Willink [05:00]: "...keep your mouth shut, keep your ears open, don't be late, don't forget any gear."
• Bobby Holland [07:17]: "It's kind of a betrayal to the team, you know, just signals that you aren't prioritizing your life accordingly."
• Jocko Willink [07:06]: "If you can't show up on time, like can we count on you? That's a problem."
• Jocko Willink [21:40]: "It is such a good sign when one of my subordinates goes, 'Hey, let me just make sure I understand what you're saying.'"
• Bobby Holland [32:22]: "You got to own it. You got to own the shit out of it."
• Jocko Willink [34:22]: "Just tell the truth. Own it."
• Bobby Holland [42:16]: "Smooth and deliberate in some of the decisions that you're making. So you're not being hasty and emotional."
• Jocko Willink [73:52]: "How you do anything is how you do everything."
• Bobby Holland [75:32]: "If you don't know the details, you can't really lead that."
• Jocko Willink [50:28]: "You gotta fight it every day, you gotta get it done every day, you gotta move every day."

Conclusion

This episode of the Jocko Podcast offers invaluable insights into the mindset and principles that underpin both military excellence and personal success. By embracing the roles and responsibilities of a "new guy," individuals can cultivate discipline, humility, and proactive leadership that transcend traditional boundaries.