492: The Path Is Hard. Team Dealer Bravo Company 2-6 Infantry. With Ryan Jackson.

Summary

Podcast Summary: Jocko Podcast, Episode 492: "The Path Is Hard. Team Dealer Bravo Company 2-6 Infantry. With Ryan Jackson"

Podcast Information:

• Title: Jocko Podcast
• Host/Author: Jocko Willink, DEFCOR Network
• Description: Retired Navy SEAL, Jocko Willink, and Director, Echo Charles discuss discipline and leadership in business, war, relationships, and everyday life.
• Episode: 492: "The Path Is Hard. Team Dealer Bravo Company 2-6 Infantry. With Ryan Jackson."
• Release Date: May 28, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode 492 of the Jocko Podcast, Jocko Willink welcomes Echo Charles and introduces his guest, Ryan Jackson, a retired Staff Sergeant from Bravo Company, 2-6 Infantry, part of the esteemed Team Dealer. The episode delves into Ryan's harrowing experiences in Ramadi, Iraq, his struggles post-deployment, and his path to healing through service dogs.

Ryan Jackson’s Early Life and Military Enlistment

Ryan Jackson shares his upbringing, beginning in Dallas, Texas, before moving to Snellville and later Hiawassee, Georgia. Raised primarily by his grandparents after his father left, Ryan's early interests included dirt bikes, hockey, and motocross. Despite his potential in academics, he faced challenges with substance abuse, smoking weed since age 13, and trouble in high school.

Notable Quote:

Ryan Jackson [08:55]: "I had the potential, but I smoked a lot of weed, did some drugs, and I didn't really apply myself."

Ryan's inclination towards the military was evident from a young age, joining the Civil Air Patrol and ROTC. The tragic events of September 11, 2001, catalyzed his decision to enlist in the Army, seeking structure and discipline.

Notable Quote:

Jocko Willink [10:43]: "I was just like, what am I doing? Like, I'm not going to go to college, you know, not gonna do anything. Go in the Army."

Deployment to Iraq and Combat Experiences

After completing basic training and AIT at Fort Benning, Ryan was quickly deployed to Germany and subsequently to Iraq for the invasion of Baghdad in 2003. As a 240 gunner in a Humvee, Ryan witnessed intense combat, including engagements with armored vehicles and insurgent attacks.

Notable Quote:

Ryan Jackson [19:44]: "The invasion was wild. Just blasted our way all out to Baghdad."

His unit, Bravo 26, faced numerous challenges, including frequent IED attacks and sustaining heavy casualties. Ryan recounts the sudden escalation of violence post-capture of key insurgent figures and the mounting losses within his team.

Notable Quote:

Ryan Jackson [30:17]: "We were still brilliantly good at shooting, and then it got wild."

Challenges and Losses

Throughout his deployment, Ryan experienced significant personal losses, including the deaths of fellow soldiers like Staff Sergeant Swanson and Lieutenant Love. These traumatic events led to intense feelings of survivor's guilt and PTSD, which became apparent upon his return.

Notable Quote:

Ryan Jackson [44:57]: "Every one of these. Yep. See, Brett Tribble got killed... Tom Davis lost his leg. And then not even two days later, Lieutenant Love got killed."

The relentless combat and constant threat to his life took a profound toll on Ryan, affecting his mental health and personal relationships.

Reintegration and Struggles Post-Service

Upon returning from deployment, Ryan faced immense difficulties reintegrating into civilian life. Despite a hero's welcome, he grappled with PTSD, substance abuse, and strained relationships. Multiple attempts to maintain steady employment were thwarted by his mental and emotional state.

Notable Quote:

Ryan Jackson [93:46]: "I started looking into stuff. I went to a few programs. Few For PTSD and stuff."

His journey towards healing began with support from organizations like Mighty Oaks and Canines for Warriors, which introduced him to the therapeutic benefits of service dogs.

The Reunion and Healing Through Service Dogs

Driven by personal struggles and witnessing fellow veterans' challenges, Ryan co-organized a reunion for Team Dealer. This gathering became a turning point, leading him to discover the profound impact of service dogs through Canines for Warriors.

Notable Quote:

Ryan Jackson [117:57]: "He can identify my anxiety before I can identify it. He does this thing, which, ironically, hadn't done it this time."

Ryan's service dog, Caliber, became instrumental in managing his PTSD, providing emotional support, and facilitating his reintegration. The bond he shares with Caliber exemplifies the healing power of service animals for veterans.

Notable Quote:

Ryan Jackson [122:49]: "He can identify my anxiety before I can identify it. He does this thing... he jumped in my lap and saved my life."

Conclusion and Support for Veterans

The episode concludes with Jocko and Echo highlighting the importance of organizations like Canines for Warriors in assisting veterans like Ryan. They emphasize the need for veterans to seek help, break the stigma surrounding mental health, and utilize available resources to overcome their struggles.

Notable Quote:

Ryan Jackson [133:02]: "I want to emphasize to veterans out there that need help. Just don't be afraid to ask. And there's plenty of help out there."

Jocko encourages listeners to support veteran-focused organizations and underscores the enduring spirit of soldiers like Ryan Jackson, who continue to strive for healing and purpose post-service.

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Key Takeaways:

• Resilience and Sacrifice: Ryan's journey underscores the immense sacrifices made by soldiers in combat and the enduring impact of those experiences on their mental health.
• Healing Through Companionship: The introduction of service dogs can play a crucial role in helping veterans manage PTSD and reintegrate into civilian life.
• Importance of Support Systems: Organizations like Canines for Warriors and Mighty Oaks offer vital support, emphasizing the necessity for veterans to seek help and build strong support networks.
• Community and Brotherhood: Reunions and continued camaraderie among veterans provide essential emotional support and reinforce the bonds formed during service.

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Recommended Resources:

• Books Mentioned:
  • Ramadi Declassified by Colonel Tony Dean
  • Love Nick by [Author Name]
  • Jocko Willink’s titles: Extreme Ownership, Dichotomy of Leadership, Leadership Strategy and Tactics, Field Manual, and the Way of the Warrior Kid series.
• Organizations:
  • Canines for Warriors: k9s4warriors.org
  • Mighty Oaks Foundation: mightyoaks.org
  • Americas Mighty Warriors: americasmightywarriors.org
  • Heroes and Horses: heroesandhorses.org
  • Beyond the Brotherhood: beyondthebrotherhood.org

Upcoming Events:

• Ready First Ramadi Reunion: January 16-17, 2026. Veterans from Team Dealer Bravo Company, 2-6 Infantry, will gather to honor their experiences and support each other.

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Final Thoughts: Ryan Jackson’s story is a testament to the resilience of the human spirit and the importance of community and support in overcoming the profound challenges faced by veterans. His journey from the battlefield to healing through service dogs offers invaluable insights into the path of recovery and the enduring bonds formed through shared sacrifice.

Stay Connected:

• Jocko Podcast: jockopodcast.com
• Jocko Willink on Social Media: @jockowillink
• Echo Charles on Social Media: @EchoCharles

Remember: The path is hard, but with discipline, support, and unwavering determination, recovery and a fulfilling life post-service are attainable.

Transcript

[Jocko Willink]

This is Jocko, podcast number 492 with Echo Charles and me, Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo.

[Echo Charles]

Good evening.

[Jocko Willink]

The dealer NCO's carefully placed Lanzarin's remains into the ambulance for the final 100 yard ride to the helipad. First Sergeant Shaw commanded order arms. And in unison the salutes dropped. Wordlessly, the formation closed ranks behind the ambulance and followed it into the darkness to the edge of the helipad. The chopping sound of two Marine CH46C Knight helicopters in the distance soon replaced the constant hum of generators powering Camp Radi as the whir of the rotors grew louder, the members of the silent crowd stood a little straighter as the helicopters flared to land. A dust cloud of sand and pebbles filled the air, prickling the faces of the assembled soldiers. The back ramps of the Sea Knight dropped and two crew chief moved swiftly across the helipad, came to attention, saluted, then led the dealer NCOs to the aircraft for Lanzarin's trip back home. Colonel McFarland and I stood next to the ambulance in silence. Within minutes the back ramp rose. The assembled crowd snapped to attention as the wine of the engines increased. First Sergeant Shaw's voice filled the air again. Present arms. With the blade spinning faster, the lifting helicopter's prop wash blue sand harder into the faces of the troops gathered in formation, this time holding their salutes until the birds were out of sight. Again Shaw commanded the formation. Order arms. For Staff Sergeant Lanzarin, it was the beginning of his journey back to his grieving family. For the rest of us, it was time to continue the mission. Some soldiers left immediately, grieving on their own. Others milled about in small groups telling stories about their departed friend. Remember that time? Or you remember when he took the Some just stood quietly, sobbing or kicking the dirt and vowing vengeance. As we walked down the hill from the helipad, Colonel McFarland put his arm around me and asked me how I was doing. Sir, I'm fine, we're fine, I replied as I slinked out of his embrace. I had a job to do and for the sake of the unit, I could not go wobbly. Now my job was to lead the living. Tony, you know dealer has taken 25% casualties? He asked as I was lighting a cigar. Getting back into character. Yes sir. More. Counting the guys from Dagger, Chris Stilling's advisor team has lost almost 50%, I acknowledged. Colonel McFarland had seen a lot of injury and death in the past four months, as had we all up to that point, I had never thought of it as a percentage, but as individuals. Scotty Love and Crombie were dead. Rozonski had lost his legs and Sergeant McCool was shot. Now Sergeant Lands was gone. My guess is that one of the staff officers at the brigade headquarters ran the numbers and the magnitude of what Team Dealer was accomplishing and the cost associated with their success hit Colonel McFarland all at once. I'll get you guys some more help, he promised. I was truly grateful. I thanked him and he turned and walked away into the night. And that right there is an excerpt from a book called Ramadi Declassified and was written by Colonel Tony Dean, is a book that I discussed with Colonel Dean on podcast 452. And in that section of the book and on the podcast we talked about Team Dealer, death dealers, Bravo Company, 2nd Battalion, 6th Infantry, 1st Armored Division, who was attached to 135 arm armor under Colonel Dean. And we talked about their aggressive drive to accomplish the mission despite the sacrifice and the heavy losses. And while it was Colonel Sean McFarlane with the strategic goal and leaders like Colonel Dean turning that strategy into operational objectives, it was the soldiers and Marines in the company's place, platoons, squads and fire teams that were out there making it happen and taking the fight to the enemy in companies like Dealer. It is an honor to have one of the soldiers of Team Dealer with us here tonight to share his experiences in violent combat and his experiences after Staff Sergeant retired, Ryan Jackson. Thank you, Ryan. Thanks for joining us, man.

[Ryan Jackson]

Thanks for having us.

[Jocko Willink]

I'm glad, I'm glad we got connected, which I guess we got connected again through the reunion that's coming up. Yeah, the ready first Ramadi Reunion, which is going to take place January of 20, 26, 20 years. The 20 year.

[Ryan Jackson]

That's crazy.

[Jocko Willink]

The 20 year. And we'll get into the fact that you ran a little 10 year reunion a few years back for Dealer. We'll get into some of that stuff, but that's how we got reconnected. And we of course talked about the fact that you've got a lot of healing from a four legged friend. Right. Your dog caliber.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yep.

[Jocko Willink]

And we'll get into that as well with, with Canines for Warriors, an awesome organization that has helped out a lot of service members. So we'll get into some of that. But let's, let's start about, let's talk about just where you came from, some of your background. Where, where were you born?

[Ryan Jackson]

Dallas, Texas.

[Jocko Willink]

And then, and then where'd you grow Up.

[Ryan Jackson]

We eventually moved to Snellville, Georgia. And what's it. Snellville?

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah, Snellville.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah. Everybody's Somebody. It's the motto.

[Jocko Willink]

What? Everybody's Somebody. Yeah, I like it.

[Ryan Jackson]

It's right next to Stone Mountain, if you've ever heard of that. Yeah. Right down the road from that. And then eventually move up to Hiawassee, Georgia, which is right outside of Helen. It's top of the app, bottom of the Appalachian Mountains.

[Jocko Willink]

And what did your parents do?

[Ryan Jackson]

My mom worked for the first company that had the private modem. She sold that.

[Jocko Willink]

Oh, dang.

[Ryan Jackson]

My dad left when I was, like, three or four. My grandparents had a big role in raising me and stuff. My granddad worked for ems Electromagnetic Sciences. They actually invented the cell phone tower repeaters.

[Jocko Willink]

Okay.

[Ryan Jackson]

And the tracking system for the Hellfire missile and all that stuff.

[Jocko Willink]

So when you were. When you were growing up, were you spending a lot of time with your grandparents?

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

Because your dad. So your dad was out of the picture.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yep.

[Jocko Willink]

And. And then what was growing up? Did you actually live with your grandparents?

[Ryan Jackson]

No, no, I just. Yeah, I was with them on the weekends. And then some evenings, they were close enough that we'd go over there for dinner and stuff, and they pick me up from school, pick up my sister and stuff.

[Jocko Willink]

Okay. And so that was. The sibling scenario, was one sister.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, I got a half sister and two other half sisters, but no contact with them.

[Jocko Willink]

Okay, and then what were you into when you were growing up?

[Ryan Jackson]

Dirt bikes, hockey and trouble. And girls.

[Jocko Willink]

Georgia has a hockey scene.

[Ryan Jackson]

Roller hockey.

[Jocko Willink]

Roller hockey. Okay. You didn't specify roller.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah. I've actually never roller skated in my life. I started out on rollerblades and started hockey and.

[Jocko Willink]

And was there, like, club, like leagues?

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

Are people still playing roller hockey?

[Ryan Jackson]

I don't think so. I don't know. Maybe.

[Jocko Willink]

I saw some comedy talk, some comedian talking about Rollerblades.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

And it was like, you know, once somebody said something negative about at rollerblades, and everyone got rid of them real quick. It's like everyone had him. And then someone said, no, those are for girls. And then everyone threw them away real quick.

[Ryan Jackson]

We used to do, like, the aggressive skating, like, grinding on sidewalks and stuff.

[Jocko Willink]

And that's where you were into growing up and. And then dirt bikes.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, we had a. We have a lot of land up in North Georgia, so my granddad is always big on dirt bikes and motorcycles and stuff. So I grew up. My first dirt bike, I think I was, like, six.

[Jocko Willink]

Okay.

[Ryan Jackson]

Since then, I had him riding all the time I'd race them and motocross races.

[Jocko Willink]

Oh, you did motocross and everything, huh? Do you ever look at one of those army units where they have, like, motorcycles? I guess that's S.F.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, that would be cool.

[Jocko Willink]

I know S.F. has motorcycles.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah. All the cool toys.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah. And. And then what? What about, like, school? Were you into school? How were you doing in school?

[Ryan Jackson]

Oh, I was there. I. I had the potential, but I smoked a lot of weed, did some drugs, and I didn't really apply myself.

[Jocko Willink]

That's the best answer I've ever heard for how was school? He's like, I was there. I attended.

[Ryan Jackson]

I mean, looking back, like, I know I could have done a lot better. And I actually told my granddad, you know, I don't want to go to college right now because I don't feel like I'm mature enough to go. I'm going to get in trouble. I'm going to, you know, party and not show up to class. So I didn't really have anybody to push me to do that. I'd come home and do my homework if I wanted to or not. So.

[Jocko Willink]

Did you ever think about the military at a young age, or when did you start thinking about it?

[Ryan Jackson]

Probably when I was like, 10 or 11. I was in Civil Air Patrol.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ryan Jackson]

But I did rotc.

[Jocko Willink]

Apparently, they weren't drug testing in the Civil Air Patrol.

[Ryan Jackson]

It was. It was always something I looked up to. You know, I think inside I was looking for, like, the structure and, like, the discipline and, you know, male role models in my life that I didn't really have. So I was always big in the military and kind of going that way. Went to go join the marines. Like, 17 fell a drug test. They actually do test.

[Jocko Willink]

Oh, yeah. This ain't the Civil Air Patrol anymore.

[Ryan Jackson]

No, it's not.

[Jocko Willink]

So were you still in high school when you tried to join the Marine Corps?

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, so I actually joined the army on September 12, 2001. Like, right after 9, 11. I came. I walked into art class under the influence, obviously, and bad decisions and everything just kind of clicked because, like, we were still home from school. We're out next couple days, and I was just.

[Jocko Willink]

Are you a senior in high school? Your senior year in high school is when September 11th happened?

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

Okay. So you see it happening on TV and then what, you go into school and.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah. And watch it play out, you know, on TV and stuff, and the whole realization of everything that was going on and looking back and, you know, going to war and all this stuff. And I just kind of was like, what am I doing? Like, I'm. I'm not going to go to college, you know, not gonna do anything. Go in the Army. I'd already tried for the Marines before that because they have a. What's called a delayed entry program where you join and you have to wait till you graduate. So September 12, I went into the army recruiter's office, and I watched about six or seven different VHS tapes, recruited commercials, and he got an infantry. And I was like, that one.

[Jocko Willink]

So they're just telling you different mos. Yeah.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

And then you finally saw infantry.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

And you said, that's me.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yep.

[Jocko Willink]

But you're only a junior. You're only a senior in high school, and it's September.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

And so now you have to wait another, what, six months or eight months before you.

[Ryan Jackson]

About six months. But they had stuff where you had to show up, had to do PT on the weekends.

[Jocko Willink]

Did they. Did they pee? Did they piss test you?

[Ryan Jackson]

Oh, yeah, I was cleaning. Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

So by that time, you were like, all right, you realize you can't be smoking pot all the time.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah. I mean, I was in it, too. I was invested. I was like, this is what I want to. I actually had a special forces contract.

[Jocko Willink]

Oh, nice.

[Ryan Jackson]

And work out that way because it's fast. As we deployed.

[Jocko Willink]

What kind of music were you into when you were growing up?

[Ryan Jackson]

Like, sublime. Like, techno stuff.

[Jocko Willink]

Okay.

[Ryan Jackson]

See, I had a buddy, his. His mom or his stepdad, he managed concerts and stuff in Atlanta. So we got tickets to all the concerts and stuff.

[Jocko Willink]

Jack.

[Ryan Jackson]

I actually spoke to Joint Rob Zombie at the tabernacle in Atlanta. It was pretty cool.

[Jocko Willink]

That's legit. That's a good story.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

So once you were. Once you enlisted in delayed entry program, then you. Then you realize, like, all right, I'm going for this. Yeah, stop smoking pot. Did you perform at school at all or not really? Because you didn't care?

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, I started picking up a little bit. One like, stop smoking. Cleared my head up a lot. Because as a kid that young, you know, smoking, that's not good for you.

[Jocko Willink]

How long were you smoking pop for? Like, what age?

[Ryan Jackson]

Since I was, like, 13.

[Jocko Willink]

Dang.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah. Bad influences my life, easy access to it. And just looking back, you know, like I said, I had the potential to be good in school, but I just wasn't applying it. So it was.

[Jocko Willink]

So are you training to, like, you're gonna go to Special Forces selection at this time?

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, they do all kinds of PT and stuff. I had some pretty Good. I can't remember the recruiters, but I know it was aggressive. Like, they come pick me up at the house. It wasn't a mandatory thing, but they were like, you want to do it? It's here. And so they'd come pick me up on the weekends and I'd go do PT and just learn army stuff. And I think it was my recruiter that was invested, which. I wish I remembered his name. Shout out to whoever that was.

[Jocko Willink]

Good job.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

So then you. You get done with high school, your senior year, you make it through with no drama, you graduate, and then it's off to boot camp.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yep.

[Jocko Willink]

And so now it's what? So have we even gone into Afghanistan? Yeah, we would have gone into Afghanistan, but Iraq's not going off yet.

[Ryan Jackson]

Right.

[Jocko Willink]

Okay. How's boot camp?

[Ryan Jackson]

It was eye opening. So, you know, I wasn't that athletic, aside from the hockey, the motocross. Like, I wasn't. I didn't know I couldn't run until I got the basic training. Still not a fan to this day, but. So I had some issues with that. But, you know, that's what base training is for. Break you down and build you back up. And that's exactly what happened. I caught on quick. I knew all the marching stuff already, so that was easy.

[Jocko Willink]

That's from rotc?

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah. So I did like the drill team and all that stuff.

[Jocko Willink]

Did you do ROTC all through high school?

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

Even when you were smoking pot, you were going to rotc?

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

That's a classic.

[Ryan Jackson]

It was just after school.

[Jocko Willink]

That's classic. Yeah. It's crazy. Did you have that moment in boot camp or did you have a few of them where you're like, what the hell did I just do to my life?

[Ryan Jackson]

No, I really didn't, but I feel like every day was more exciting, like we'd do something different. Except, I mean, there was a few times, like on a 12 mile road march where I'm like, what did I get into? You know, 4 o' clock in the morning, you're on mile 11 or 7. Stuff like our long runs.

[Jocko Willink]

But did you feel like you kind of found your thing?

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, that's exactly what happened.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah. Yeah, I know. That's definitely what I felt when I got in the. In the Navy, when I was like, okay, cool, I got this, this, this I can. This I can do. And the Navy is a different kind of boot camp. Especially when I went through, it was like, it was literally about folding underwear and just the lamest stuff. But, yeah, got through it. Did you have any major challenges besides running?

[Ryan Jackson]

Not really. I mean, I didn't really. I didn't miss home. I mean, I literally, I joined to get away from home, to get away from my friends at the time because, you know, bad influences and all that stuff. I joined to keep myself out of trouble. And so, yeah, other than running, that was my, that was the hardest thing. And then I found out I was really good at ruck marching and then really good at shooting and really good at a lot of stuff. So.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah, that's, that's a thing, man. Like, there's different types of muscle genetics that you can have and you can be like an endurance guy or you can be a really fast sprinter.

[Ryan Jackson]

Right.

[Jocko Willink]

And then there's dudes that are good at rock humping.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

Which is a good thing to be good at when you're in the military. Yeah, I was like that too. I never won a damn four mile race in the Seal teams and I never won 100 yard dash either. But I'd win some rocks.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

You know, I could, I could rock.

[Ryan Jackson]

Pay for now, but check.

[Jocko Willink]

And then what was after that? You go to AIT?

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, after that it was one station unit training. So infantry at Fort Benning, it's just all straight. I think it's 18 weeks. 18, 19 weeks. But whatever it is. But it's one station. So basic training and you just kind of phase into infantry training. They just incorporate it all together. So that's kind of unique. I don't think there's any other moss that do that.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah.

[Ryan Jackson]

So after that, graduated basic training, December, went home on leave for 30 days and already had orders to Germany because that was part of my enlistment contract. Go to Europe.

[Jocko Willink]

How's it like when you went home for leave?

[Ryan Jackson]

It was very different. Very different.

[Jocko Willink]

Like, were you disconnected from your friends enough to be like, yeah, this is.

[Ryan Jackson]

I started to realize a disconnection. Like, you know, I've been gone for six months and you guys haven't done anything. Like, you're in school, you're not in school, you're not in school. Like, that could have been me.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah.

[Ryan Jackson]

And then like, people started looking up to me and I didn't really understand. I was like, I just did this thing, you know. But some of my friends even came to my graduation. They were kind of impressed with that. So it was, it was definitely different. But it was quick too because, you know, I had a. I didn't have anything to take with me, so just my army stuff and spent time with the family and did Christmas and then I was off to Germany.

[Jocko Willink]

And how was your experience getting to Germany now?

[Ryan Jackson]

Well, I was 18, 19. So that was a little eye opening. It was my first like major flight and it was like nine hours and then I got there and it was a processing unit and my name was like. They were going alphabetical order and then they skipped over my name and I was like, that can't be good. And then some guy leaned over at me, he's going, you're going to the rock. I was like, what? So bomb holder Germany is known as the Rock. It's just a small military baseball on top of a hill in Germany. So they called my name and said, jackson, go on the rock and call the bomb order. And then me and four other guys loaded up in a van. And the longest van ride in snow at nighttime, just going around mountains. And that may be a little eye opener. I got to my unit and immediately got hazed by an entire platoon. Had no idea what I was doing. Woke up the next morning, my squad leader told me I was going to be a 240 gunner.

[Jocko Willink]

Get some.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, 19. So that's pretty cool. I only shot it once, you know, at basic training, on a range, on a tripod.

[Jocko Willink]

And at this point, the US army and the US Military is gearing up to invade Iraq.

[Ryan Jackson]

Right this.

[Jocko Willink]

Did you at 19 years old make that connection or did they let you know when you landed on the ground? Were they like, hey, we're going to Iraq?

[Ryan Jackson]

No, it wasn't for about another month after all getting there. And then all of a sudden they had a random month long training mission in Hohensfeld, Germany and Grafenwehr. So in Grafenwehr they do the gunnery. Hohensfeld, it's like applying all the action and movement, contact lanes and stuff like that. And we did that back to back. And then they're like, by the way, we get down to this, we're deploying. So I mean I was in Germany for three months before we deployed.

[Jocko Willink]

Dang.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah. I didn't get to do anything.

[Jocko Willink]

And then you guys deployed? Deployed to Kuwait?

[Ryan Jackson]

No, we went straight. Oh, we were in Kuwait for like four days. Okay. We were part of the invading force. And going into Baghdad 2003, how much.

[Jocko Willink]

Time were you sitting around in, in waiting to, for the invasion to take place?

[Ryan Jackson]

Less than a week. Like it was that quick. It was more like in processing. Here's your vehicles, here's your guns, here's your stuff. And we were gone.

[Jocko Willink]

Dang. So you weren't part of that Force that like waiting on the border for months on end?

[Ryan Jackson]

No, no.

[Jocko Willink]

You just showed up in the invasion.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

What was your, what was your attitude as that invasion was kind of kicking off?

[Ryan Jackson]

Exciting, scared. We invaded Iraq in soft skin Humvees in the back of five ton trucks and then Bradley.

[Jocko Willink]

So it was America's finest, the world's greatest fighting force. Right. Cheapest, bitter canvas doors on the.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, the invasion was wild. Just blasted our way all out to Baghdad.

[Jocko Willink]

And you were what, a 240 gunner in, in what vehicle? What kind of vehicle?

[Ryan Jackson]

Just a Soskin Humvee. Like we had it strapped down on sandbags. Like on soft skin Humvee.

[Jocko Willink]

Your 240 was strapped down in sandbags?

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, like on a tripod. It was, I got pictures of it. It's kind of. It was sketchy looking back on it.

[Jocko Willink]

Dude, I gotta get some of those pictures.

[Ryan Jackson]

They didn't have doors on them.

[Jocko Willink]

Like just. What about. And you're. That's crazy. This is the first person I've talked to where their lead up time was like very short. Most people were sitting there for months.

[Ryan Jackson]

No, like we were gone.

[Jocko Willink]

Doing the drills with the, with the gas masks and the mop level four gear and all that stuff.

[Ryan Jackson]

We did a few of those. Yeah, we were walking around the mop gear for a while. We had the Scud attacks, but it was quick.

[Jocko Willink]

And then what was. As you guys are pushing up, like what are you doing? Are you just securing the road? What's happening?

[Ryan Jackson]

Wow. We're just in a convoy and our, our end goal was the cross sabers in Baghdad.

[Jocko Willink]

Okay.

[Ryan Jackson]

And it's a freaking legit.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah, that's a legit end state.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, it was pretty cool. And then Saddam's palace, the one right there in between the Tigers and Euphrates lived there for a little while. Just. I mean it wasn't like crazy combat because third idea had already come through, but just going, I mean we're still getting, still engaging T72s and still engaging, you know, mooch fight. Not mooch fighters at the time, still Iraqi army at the time. But we're in like, literally we had dudes sitting on boxes of water facing out in the back of a five ton truck and just like taking shots. And I don't think we, I mean we stopped for a couple days, but I know it was like 67 days before I took a shower.

[Jocko Willink]

And as, as you must have been the lowest ranking guy in your, in your platoon.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, luckily I was PFC because I already had all the ROTC and stuff. So I got graduate based training as a pfc.

[Jocko Willink]

So how was your knowledge of what was going on from like a strategic picture?

[Ryan Jackson]

Well, I didn't know. I didn't know anything. I didn't know. I just did what I was told at the time I was supposed to do it. And when I was off, I was either burning or pulling guard somewhere else.

[Jocko Willink]

And it was 67 days before you took a shower?

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah. And that was at Saddam's palace. And some, somebody busted a water pipe on accident and it made like a shower and everybody was like, oh. And some dudes came up and put, put some ponchos around it and that was our shower.

[Jocko Willink]

What do you remember getting shot at for the first time?

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

What was your. Were you like, oh, this is it. Did you, were you ready for it?

[Ryan Jackson]

I definitely wasn't ready for. Was eye opening. It was different. You know, in, in infantry basic training you do the. What's it. It's like a movement to contact lane where you have to like crawl on Constantine water where you get shot at. So you hear like the snap and the crack and stuff and bullets go by you and you're like, all right, that's what it is. But you know, when they like start hitting the vehicles and stuff, that's a different story. Luckily they weren't that good a shot back then, so.

[Jocko Willink]

But did you guys take any casualties?

[Ryan Jackson]

No.

[Jocko Willink]

And by the way, with what unit had you, what. What company were you a part of at this point?

[Ryan Jackson]

Bravo 26.

[Jocko Willink]

You straight into Bravo 26 and you went right to war with them?

[Ryan Jackson]

Yep.

[Jocko Willink]

Dang. Awesome. But you didn't take any casualties?

[Ryan Jackson]

No.

[Jocko Willink]

Smooth sailing, relatively speaking.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yep.

[Jocko Willink]

Did you see, did you see the Iraqi populace, like with the flags, American flags and stuff like that?

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, one thing going back a little. Well, that's the second appointment. Yeah. So as we were going up, we had all of our, our rucksacks and our A bags strapped to the outside of the Bradley. So, you know, they'd be outside waving and the white flags and stuff and kids were excited. But also we had dudes that had sticks with knives taped to the end of them and they were cutting our bags as we were driving by. So when we got there, nobody had anything. So not only not taking a shower for a while, you don't have to like, you're, you got the clothes you got, if you're lucky, you know, if your rucksack didn't get cut open.

[Jocko Willink]

Dang.

[Ryan Jackson]

I guess nobody stopped to fix that. There's nowhere else to put it. So we just kind of carry it with us.

[Jocko Willink]

And then once you got up to. Did you settle in anywhere in Baghdad? Is that where you settled into?

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, we settled at the museum of Presence to the President right outside of Saddam's one palace, next to the crossovers.

[Jocko Willink]

Okay.

[Ryan Jackson]

We had to clean out. The museum's attached to the crossover, so we live there. We had to clean it out first because looters that came in there, and we had U.S. customs agents in there that were, like, making sure we didn't see anything or protecting stuff. And I know Saddam, he had, like, a prison in the bottom of it, and there was some gold down there, and I know some SF dudes, like, blew a hole in there. I don't know what happened to that, but I think that's why customs was there. But so we secured that because it was supposed to be, like, a tier one site, and then we moved to the power plant.

[Jocko Willink]

Where was the power plant? Also in Baghdad?

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, like, right down the road.

[Jocko Willink]

And you would just set up shop there?

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

And then almost like a little mini combat outpost.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, I was. Yeah, pretty much like one of the first ones, I guess we just pull, you know, pull guard on towers and do patrols out of the base.

[Jocko Willink]

And then how long was this whole.

[Ryan Jackson]

Deployment ended up being? 15 months. So it's supposed to be 12, but we got extended three days before we're supposed to go home.

[Jocko Willink]

So it took you, what, a couple weeks to push up into Baghdad?

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

And then you settled in, and then you stayed there for 15 months?

[Ryan Jackson]

Oh, well, we stayed in Baghdad for, I'd say, eight or nine months. And then we did Mutad Al Assadi army, which is like. All right. So the way that deployment worked was the very first couple months was, like, intense, and then it was nothing. This is before the insurgency started, so it was kind of. It was nothing. Like, you know, the Iraqis were super friendly to us. They loved us being there. We were doing good stuff. And then all of a sudden, the insurgency just kicked off, and it's like they flipped a switch, like, turn the light on, the cockroaches, you know, run away, but. And they started doing all kinds of stuff. I remember, like, the first IED we found was literally like a bomb next to a side of a highway and a dude, like, sitting behind a berm.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah. Almost looks like.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

That's exactly what I gave to my mom when you said that. What. What month do you remember the insurgency get starting to get gnarly.

[Ryan Jackson]

Ooh. So that deployment was March. We were supposed to come home. And September, I think March to March, I'd say about eight or nine months through. I can't remember the months, but. And they certainly. It was raw at that point. Like, I don't think they know what they were doing either. They were just like, I don't want you here anymore. Which we can't blame.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah. Yeah. This is when I look back at this whole thing. So I was in. I got to Iraq in, like, Oath in the fall of O3, and we were doing a bunch of hits and taking down targets, blah, blah, blah. But with. The whole time we were targeting Muktad al Sauder, and, you know, like, different groups were gonna go hit him, but no one could ever get permission because no one knew what was gonna happen. Everyone's kind of afraid if we hit Muktad al Sauder, like, does the whole country turn into a disaster? And so someone had got the bright idea to send us to go and hit Muktad Al Sauders. Like, one of his top lieutenants was this guy named Yakubi. And so we went and captured Yakubi. And that was in April of 2004. And, like, the next day, it was total chaos in Iraq. And it was like. There was. Like. I woke up in the morning, and there was. I looked out because I was. I was writing by Baghdad International Airport, and, like, there was just smoke coming from vehicles all over the highway. There was. People were getting mortared. It was just really bad.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

And so that was sort of a turning point, looking back in, when there was a real escalation of violence. And I don't think anybody predicted that. Yeah, I don't think. Because I think we would have been like. We, as coalition forces would have been like, well, let's continue to negotiate. Let's figure something out. But they wanted to see what would happen. And that actually might have been an even worse move.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, right.

[Jocko Willink]

Because now you still had Solder leading his people, and yet you really pissed him off. It was almost like the joke about, like, flicking a bear. Like flicking a bear in the balls. Right. You're gonna. You might just kill the thing, but they didn't do that. And so things started getting much, much worse. And then for me, we. My platoon left, like, you know, another couple weeks later, we were out of there. And then we get back to America, and we're watching just downward spiral.

[Ryan Jackson]

Right. I think the turning point I remember the most is when we killed Saddam's sons, because we were there for that. We were out outside security and stuff. And I remember once, you know, they put some javelins in there and all kinds of stuff in, you know, the palace and stuff. And I remember that night or the next night, it just AK fire every like tracers going up in the sky, just going everywhere. And we were like, what the hell's going on? And that from. I think from then on it kind started getting a little wild.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah. Some of the other things was the Abu Ghraib prison thing, that was bad too because now you had Al Jazeera was putting that stuff. Americans are torturing Iraqis and that was not helpful at all either. So there's a bunch of things that led to it. Things are getting worse and worse. Didn't. So what was your op tempo? Were you guys. And what were you guys doing? Like, what was your mission?

[Ryan Jackson]

Securing the power plant and the palace. Um, so it was a pretty mundane thing, you know, I think it was like 8 on, 10 off and some admin stuff. You know, it's back when we. We're still literally burning our shit. Like, you know, you'd have a 50 gallon drums, you'd put some diesel fuel, JP8 in there and burn it. And as a private, you're starting it with a stick. We had one private that he decided he didn't want to do that anymore, so he put too much in there and ended up burning down our shitters. So we're sitting in boxes for a while, then they finally got us porta potties.

[Jocko Willink]

And that's where you were for. For how many months were you sitting on the power plant?

[Ryan Jackson]

So our unit, we had three different tier one sites. So they would rotate us through. So there was the power plant. There was like a gypsy camp where. I forget. I think they were Kurds and they were just kind of like put there. So we had to like watch over them. I don't know the point behind that mission. Like I said, I was just private, so. And then there was one of. I think it was something at biop, something like that. So we'd go up there and they would rotate us like every month or so, go through it and just pull guard, just security dude, just doing patrols. It got kind of mundane and.

[Jocko Willink]

But patrols inside the wire?

[Ryan Jackson]

No, outside, like through, like downtown, back.

[Jocko Willink]

Okay. So you were pushing out patrols?

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

How was the. How was the enemy activity at that time during that deployment?

[Ryan Jackson]

It wasn't really much of it. I mean it wasn't. It didn't really kick off until, I'd say like the last four months. Where deployment. So one big thing is we were three to four days before deploying. Like we were turning in ammo. Like we were getting our Bradleys ready to send back to Germany. And so Al Solder did his thing. There was a British CAC building or something that got overran.

[Jocko Willink]

Oh, yeah. Down in the job.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

So I went to QRF that thing. All right. So. And I didn't get there in time.

[Ryan Jackson]

So when that popped off, we hit. We went to Maquadilla, Tue and then Najaf in four days. And we end up staying in a job. And that was shitty. I mean, that was bad. We got mortared every single day to the point where we were putting sandbags on the roof. I remember getting up to go take a shower one time because they brought the trailers in and we came back in. A mortar had laid on top of the building and my cot had shrapnel in it. I was like, that could have sucked. And then we had one dude that was in the shower and mortar hit. You could see like the silhouette of his body from like where it went through. He ended up going home. But that was like, you can't do anything about that. You know, you get outside, whether you're cleaning your gun or whatever, you just get mortar. Like there's not many places to run to. So that was a little shitty, but.

[Jocko Willink]

And how long did you stay down in the job for?

[Ryan Jackson]

We were there for three months.

[Jocko Willink]

And what were you doing down there?

[Ryan Jackson]

That was a little intense. I remember. So the day we found out that we were getting extended, so I. When I came home mid to relieve, I proposed to my now ex wife. And so we were supposed to go back. She was planning a wedding. It was supposed to be in June. I think the army had a yes. So after we took over that British CPA building, they left behind all kinds of stuff and they left behind a sat phone. And I remember sitting on top of a building, the CPA building, I think, and calling, you know, my ex and being like, we're not going home. And before I could get that off, a Kiowa came down to the. Straight from the middle because Solder's army started marching through the street and Kiowa just came down and that's the last time I talked to her. And for about a month and a half, that. That's when it started getting wild. They had a lot more IEDs and stuff.

[Jocko Willink]

And you guys were. Were you guys at the cpa?

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

You guys went there to reinforce that thing?

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

Awesome. And you're Getting attacked. But it's. But you're. But you're staying in a static position. Are you still pushing out patrols?

[Ryan Jackson]

We're still pushing out patrols. And both, you know, you'd be on a guard tower and then you get down and go to a patrol or something like that. And the attacks, there was nothing, no strategy behind it. You know, they just pop out from on a wall and take a pop shot. It's like we were fighting ghosts. Never get to really see them. And rarely would we have, like, actual gunfights.

[Jocko Willink]

And so you got extended three months or four months, something like that. When did you have. When did you end up going back to Germany? July.July of 2004. Yeah, got it. And how was the. How was the. What do they call it? They got a word for it. Reintegration. How was the reintegration to the world?

[Ryan Jackson]

Quick, fast, in a hurry. You know, I came home. That's back. I mean, I wore my DCU's home one. We still didn't have, like, the modern amenities, so we would wash our. Our uniforms in JP8 and like, water. So I remember, like, walking to the airport one. I got all the stand innovations. I think dudes were buying me drinks, like steak dinners, waiting at the airport. Got all the attention stuff. When I came home, it was literally a hero's welcome.

[Jocko Willink]

I mean, and this was coming home to Germany.

[Ryan Jackson]

No. So come home to Germany. Yeah, sorry, too far ahead. Coming home to Germany was. It was fine. Like I was.

[Jocko Willink]

You talking about before going home on your leave?

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, leave after that. So coming back to Germany, it was quick. I was single, I lived in the barracks. So we just kind of got pushed away. You know, the married dudes had their whole thing. I just remember, like, we walked into the gym and they said, welcome home. We did a whole speech and stuff. And then there's a reintegration process where you have to go through and talk to doctors and stuff for like three days. Everybody was just. Whole place smelled like a brewing factory and just reeked of alcohol. Everybody was drunk. I think everybody just wanted to check the boxes and get out of there. We did have to. Everybody had a peanut jug for like a gallon jug because we were shooting du rounds. Pl. Uranium rounds. So there was that. And then we were at the. To wait. The power plant where there was yellow cake enriched uranium. So I tested for that. I think that's why my kids are so smart to this day. But yeah, you know, the. The whole idea of like, PTSD and stuff like that didn't really Come up. Nobody wanted to admit that at the time. We had a bunch of replacements that were there, so they were just kind of blown away and looking up to us. And so nobody wanted to like admit that like, you know, it kind of might have sucked a little bit. Not as bad as it was going to get later on, but.

[Jocko Willink]

And then you went home to America on leave.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

And that's when you were getting treated like a. Oh yeah, a hero.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah. 30 days leave. Got married. So that was August 2004. Got married, went and got my wife at the time an ID card and you know, went on a little small vacation with able to do Christmas with the family again. Got to see everybody, went back to Germany and then had her sent over. And that was a turning point for me. I was a. Just got promoted to sergeant or I was about to be at the time. So I was married. So out of the barracks, got housing now. That was a shocker too because I was like, oh, I don't have a car, I don't need furniture. So luckily the army has a program where they loan you furniture, so. And just houseful army furniture.

[Jocko Willink]

And did you get a car?

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, yeah, I eventually got.

[Jocko Willink]

Did you get a cool German car for cheap?

[Ryan Jackson]

It wasn't cool. It was 85vwagen Golf.

[Jocko Willink]

Okay.

[Ryan Jackson]

It was a manual and it had like rust spots on the wall where you could see the ground.

[Jocko Willink]

Okay.

[Ryan Jackson]

It was enough to get around base.

[Jocko Willink]

But it was cold, not cool.

[Ryan Jackson]

One of the things, I guess the way the German environmental stuff is you can't. If it's that bad and you want to like junk it, you have to pay to junk it. So you just sell it from soldier to soldier. So I paid 500 bucks for it. Got me around.

[Jocko Willink]

No, because I, I was in Germany for a while and the guys would buy like nice cars. Yeah. You know, they'd take out a loan and buy a BMW or something because it's way cheaper than buying a BMW or Mercedes in America.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah. But you can't ship them back.

[Jocko Willink]

Can you not?

[Ryan Jackson]

No, they don't have American specs. Some of the windshield and the seat bells or something, I don't know. But I did eventually work my way up. I got a, you know, after I was there for another year or so, I got a BMW and see, moved.

[Jocko Willink]

Up in the world. Did it have a floorboards in it?

[Ryan Jackson]

Yes, it did.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah. And what's your job when you come back now you're, you're promoted, you're a sergeant.

[Ryan Jackson]

I was a team leader. So so in between that, I was a Bradley driver for a little bit too, because it's. Because I wanted to get off the ground, I wanted to learn the Bradley. So I drove that for a while. And then I got back on the ground. I was a team leader. I got promoted and then I wanted to be a gunner on a Bradley. So I asked Walplatoon sergeant if I can be a gunner. He was like, sure. And I did that. So then I went from being on the ground to being in a mounted section and I got really good at shooting the Bradley. Then I got promoted to be Captain Lanson's gunner. So I was his gunner, which was pretty cool. That was the lowest ranking. I was company commander's gunner. I was still at E5.

[Jocko Willink]

That's legit.

[Ryan Jackson]

But that was cool.

[Jocko Willink]

And then you guys are now preparing for another deployment at this point?

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, that was quick turnaround. So we had, we got back, we got our replacements in. A lot of the old guys left and then we already knew as soon as we got back, like we're deploying to get in a year. And our mindset started changing a lot more, you know, because now I was married and now I was like, not just me anymore. And also we just got back and we're going back again and we have new guys to train up. So we got to train them up, get them ready.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah, and by the way, you're coming back from a 15 month. See, I don't know if you know this, but the Marine Corps and the Navy, they do six months deployments for the most part. Like maybe it's seven, maybe it's eight, but it's like they're just on that cycle. And the reason they're on that cycle, it's all based on ships. Like ships go out for six months, generally speaking. They used to do nine back in the day, but now they figured out that like six months is. So they're the Navy and the Marine Corps is like six months. Yeah, we'd, you know, I'd always feel like, damn, dude, these guys are doing 14, 15 month deployments. Get some.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

And then you come home and you have a one year turnaround.

[Ryan Jackson]

Right.

[Jocko Willink]

And you know you're going back for.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, part of that one year was we did two Grafenville rotations, which is the gunnery, and then we did a graphene veer and Holinsville back to back rotation. So, you know, movement to contact lanes and all that stuff. I, we're, you know, I joke about all the time I was in Germany for Five years. I went to one Oktoberfest. So hardly ever got to travel anywhere. Hardly got to do stuff. It was a quick turnaround.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah, that is an interesting thing too because the Navy and the Marine Corps deploy regardless of what's going on in the world, whereas the army doesn't really do that. Like the Army. You might, you might be at home for a long time if there's no war happening. Of course, we weren't predicting two decades of war after September 11th. So you, you just spend all the time on the road. You're. All the time is training. You'd only get one Oktoberfest. You, you don't. You might as well not even gone to Germany.

[Ryan Jackson]

I mean, there was still, you know, it was still block leave and times and you know, four day weekends and we could get on a train and go to Paris, go to all over. We went to a lot of places. It just wasn't, you know, non wartime Germany living.

[Jocko Willink]

And you got kids coming along the way at this point, no kids yet. So now you're preparing for this deployment. How's that workup now that you've kind of been in combat before, you've been to Iraq before, how's that workup feel?

[Ryan Jackson]

Lot more, I wouldn't say stress, but a lot more awareness of what I'm doing. Like now I got my own soldiers I'm responsible for and we're going to war. So like the whole, you know, now I have to be responsible for them, bring them back. So I put a lot of focus on training, a lot of focus on pt as much as I didn't like to still did it. So getting them ready to go was, you know, that was. There was a lot to that.

[Jocko Willink]

You like that leadership position?

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, very, yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

Pre deployment leave, do you guys get pre deployment leave? No, no pre deployment leave.

[Ryan Jackson]

Now just pack up and go? Yeah, pretty much. I think it was like a four day weekend or something worked in there, but.

[Jocko Willink]

And then where did you. You guys didn't deploy? You guys didn't do. You deployed to Kuwait this time?

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, so we had to go to Kuwait and we were the ready reserve force. This is after Fallujah, so we got. Yeah, so they were expecting something like that again to happen. So we were in Kuwait waiting, which I can tell you was hell on earth. Like, literally, I don't. People were ready to go to war, which is something I was thinking about earlier. You know, I had young soldiers and that as much as we've been training, you know, doing CQB and Houses with live rounds and stuff. Like, they're good and they're excited. They just. They wanted war. And I remember thinking, like, be careful what you wish for. This is before we left, but being in Kuwait, everything's brown. There's nothing to do. It's hot as shit. You're walking everywhere in the sand, wearing all your gear, and it's just miserable. I mean, Captain Lancelot had us training every day. I mean, all the training. I think Colonel Dean mentioned in the. Your other podcast where we were ready, but there was nothing to do. And then, you know, we're getting paid. It. Part of me was like, you know, we're getting paid. We're not getting shot at. So just live life, you know, just do your job, whatever. And the soldiers just wanting to go. And I remember being like, you don't really know yet. But I didn't, you know, I was compared off the first deployment, so.

[Jocko Willink]

And you guys are training hard. You guys get anybody injured while you're training? Anything like that?

[Ryan Jackson]

Not from training. We had. It got to be so crazy that we had one soldier kill himself in the portal body. We had a lot of fights. Like, a lot of people get in trouble, you know, mailing alcohol from home and doing stupid stuff. I can't remember any significant. We had. I think it was Alpha 2 6, where they were at a Bradley range and somebody was like, cycling up the ghost round in the Bradley, the 25 millimeter, the way you do it to, like, feed it into the chute and stuff and cycle it. And he actually fired off a 25 millimeter round and a sabo pedal hit a dude in the neck and. But that was. That was, you know, just leading up to it.

[Jocko Willink]

At what point do you find out that you guys are going to Ramadi?

[Ryan Jackson]

About five months in. It just. It happened quick. Like, I know Colonel Dean, which I wasn't part of that. I didn't know anything. We just hear, you know, rumors on the streets and stuff. But I know Captain Lancean went up to Baghdad to, like, recon some stuff. And they came back and they said, we're going to Ramoni and, you know, we're cut off from all the news. We don't know what's going on. So we just hear, you know, what everybody else is talking about. And I was part of the Advon force, so I was with. Because I was Captain Lanson's gunner, so I went up with him like two weeks before the rest of the company got there, which was crazy.

[Jocko Willink]

What was your assessment when you got.

[Ryan Jackson]

On the ground there, quick, fast and hard. I mean, ECP3 happened like the second day we were there, and that was. We were out on a right seat ride with them, and we just see, you know, the giant explosion like right in front of us and just tear off over there. And we pull up the ECP3 and set up a cordon. I'm a 240 gunner now. We got armored Humvees, thankfully. I just remember sitting there and as soon as we pull up, Captain Lancelot's trying to get out and there's three dudes running across the field like pulling a cart or something. And I yelled at him to get back in the truck and I just cut them down with a 240 and I ended up getting an award for that. And I was kind of thinking about that. I was telling my wife the other day, you know, I was like, you know, a kid, an award for like cutting down three dudes with a machine gun. Like, cool, you know, awesome engagement. But looking back, like, yeah, that ECP3.

[Jocko Willink]

So this attack happened, and this would happen when Americans would try and turn over control points to Iraqi forces. And when the, with the, when the insurgents would see that, they would know that that was going to be a easier target for them.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

And so they would oftentimes hit those. Those ECPs really hard.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

Then that's what happened at ECP 3. And I think that's the one where the oncoming MIT team commander and the offgoing mid team commander were both killed, if I remember correctly.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, I don't think anybody was killed. That's what Sergeant Reinhardt got hit and then Garza. That's when Colonel Dino was talking about like living in and showing up the Iraqis or.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah, there was, there was one. I guess I must be confused because there was one. And it was during a turnover op because the incoming mid team commander and the outgoing mid team commander, one of them was wounded, one of them was killed, or both of them were killed, but just it was such a terrible welcome aboard to the guys now. Now you guys are coming on board, right? And it's like, oh, man, welcome. Welcome to Ramadi.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah. And like you were saying, when we're changing out, like the enemy, they know, with different vehicles, different markings, so that, you know, they see that and they're, they're going to exploit the weakness. What they didn't know is we had Bradley's on the way. Like they weren't there yet, but. So when we showed up, the Bradley, that changed a little bit.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah. There's a beautiful thing about. About Abrams and Brads, for sure. So. So how long is it. How long is your turnover with these guys?

[Ryan Jackson]

I think it was about a week.

[Jocko Willink]

And you jumped in the left seat immediately and, like, we're going out.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yep.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah. There's another part in Ramadi, declassified, where Colonel Dean was talking about the fact that, okay, we got to get guys out into the ao. Even if the guys are going to be on qrf, we got to get them out in the ao. They got to start doing patrols. And he sent out however many patrols it was, and every single one of them got hit.

[Ryan Jackson]

Every one of these. Yeah. Yep. See, Brett Tribble got killed within the first. So once the rest of our company got there, about two weeks after that, I think it was like the second mission we had. Brett Tribble got killed. My buddy Tom Davis lost his leg. And then not even two days later, Lieutenant Love got killed. And PFC Crombie, which Crombie was a brand new medic. I remember the dude, like, so slept in a cot across me, and I maybe saw his face. I can't remember his face today. But, like, that young. Just like two days. Like two days, like, second patrol just annihilated. I mean, the. The IEDs that they were hitting us with were crazy.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah. I got this book right here. It's actually. His mom put it together. It's called Love Nick. But it's just. It's a. It's a bunch of letters that he had written home. And, well, as you just pointed out, what's really heartbreaking about the book is, like, there's, I think, one letter from Ramadi, because the rest of it is letters where he's writing from Kuwait, from other areas, and from just being in the Army. There's. There's a. One. One letter. And actually there's a. There's a. It's actually not even a letter. It's a. It's a cell phone message that his mom got. Hey, mom, this is Nick. I'm in Iraq right now, and it's pretty cool here. I went on patrol the other day. I got to save someone's life. They got shot. He had gotten shot. He was an Iraqi guy. He got shot in the upper left abdomen. We had to fix him up while we were on patrol. It's pretty exciting. I got to save someone's life with all my cool medical knowledge. Like, I ended up living. But he had to get his spleen removed. It was exciting. As I mentioned, as a medic, I don't really have to do anything dangerous. I guess the only dangerous thing I have to do so far is like I raided a store. We had to search it out real quickly for a bomb or anything suspicious. We pull over cars, look for an IED or something. You know, it's just exciting. Being over here is like being BPs, Border Patrol or state trooper. We kind of drive around all day trying to arrest bad guys. That's. And that's what it's, that's what it's about here we're doing during these days, it's pretty safe. Everyone's trying to make their parents think it's hot, dusty and Sandy and. Yeah, that's about it. I'll try and call you some other time, but I don't know how often I'll get. How often that's going to be because it's hard to get like on a phone or a computer out here. It takes a little time and patience. So. Yeah, I'll try and call you again in a bit. All right, bye. The telephone message immediately after. Oh yeah, I forgot to tell you. I love you, mom. Bye.

[Ryan Jackson]

Damn. Yeah, I know. The book was out there.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah. Like you were saying though, it's a young, young soldier that just showed up there and, and then this other guy, Lieutenant Scott Love, who is which it's interesting because when you hear lieutenants, you know, you hear first lieutenant, you think a lot of like a young guy that's kind of inexperienced, but he was like a 30 plus year old guy. He was, everybody loved the guy. And that's what you guys roll into.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, yeah. I was a tenant, loves gunner for a little bit. And he was super chill dude. I mean he was professional, but he was super chill. And he, Colonel Dean said he was investing the mission. He was investing the mission. Like he, he spoke Arabic. He, he was about the, what we were doing. Like he was about the hearts and minds. He was still tactical leader and stuff, but he was invested in, you know, fixing Iraq and restoring peace, whatever. And his, his death was bad. I mean, we were looking for stuff. Stuff got blown a block away that was not even two weeks in. That was eye opening for everybody.

[Jocko Willink]

How is it getting your gear back on and going back out?

[Ryan Jackson]

At the time it was kind of crazy. I mean, we'd go on patrols and somebody get killed. And as a squad leader, you got to come back and like pack that kid's stuff up and like you were just playing spades with him last night and now you're packing this stuff up and sending a Home. And that, that's. I think that's when it hit me. I was like, damn, you know, one of my good friend Tom just got blown up. And then we already lost two soldiers. And then that's when I wouldn't say the lights went off, but are on. But, you know, that's when I knew this was serious because the Unit before was 228. I think unit before us, they took casualties, but I don't think they told us how many are. It didn't really disseminate all the way down to our level, so it was eye opening for everybody. But we'd go on and go right back out. Like when you started the, the podcast, that memorial ceremony, I remember they called us in from sector just so we could go to memorial service, and we went right back out. Like, we parked our humvees, took our gear off carries Heartlands because I was a squad leader, so I had to carry him on the plane or the bird and smoked a cigarette, bullshit it for a little bit, and we were gone right back out until 7 in the morning.

[Jocko Willink]

That's another weird thing that I never like when I was watching war movies and stuff as a kid. You. It's like your base was way over here and then you'd go on helicopters to some other place where you'd go fight and then you'd get done fighting. You'd go back to. But I was like, no, you. You guys were out in Tamim. Like, you go outside the gate, take a right, you're there. Yeah, it's like going to the, the grocery store. Like, it's. It's not like, okay, hey, I'm gonna go to this memorial service and then I'm gonna go get in a vehicle and we're gonna drive and then we'll fly somewhere and it's gonna take an hour or two hours or three hours. It's like, no, I'm. When I get my vehicle and go out the front gate, 30 seconds later. Yeah, you're into meme.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah. I think they got us a Predator drone to like overwatch the. Our area while we came in. And we were probably back on base for like an hour, if that, you know, between getting on, getting back off and right back out. And you talk about vengeance and stuff like that. It was on everybody's mind.

[Jocko Willink]

And to meme was like a. It's like, what is it? Grid layout, you know, so the roads are kind of like western. You know, you're just like driving down the road, look left, look right. It's very it seems like the layout is very western and there's normal looking buildings. You know, you're like, okay, this seems, this seems relatively normal, but it's anything but normal.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

And then what was your, what was your op tempo like? Like how, how often were you going out? How often did you come back?

[Ryan Jackson]

Every day.

[Jocko Willink]

Every day? You're going out every day?

[Ryan Jackson]

It was eight hour patrols. I started out, you know, first starting Charlotte rotate us. So I was on daytime patrols, which mornings is not bad. Afternoon patrol suck. It's super hot and everybody's tired. But we would go out and eight hour patrols. You're probably going to get in contact of some kind.

[Jocko Willink]

Were you in a brad?

[Ryan Jackson]

No, I was in, I was in Humvee and then we were walking. We just stopped taking Humvees for one. We kept getting blown up. I mean we went through 16 humvees in like less than two months and we just started walking because figure safer that way.

[Jocko Willink]

I think everybody felt that way. I know I, I, I hated being in Hummer's and I hated being in Bradley's. Like for me being in a Bradley because I'm not an armor guy. I mean I was in the SEAL team. So like being in a vehicle is already a stretch. But put me in the back of a Bradley where it's like I have no idea where we are. It's harder than hell. And you're just waiting for to get blown up is what it felt like.

[Ryan Jackson]

The first time I got blown up in Bradley. Just dust everywhere. Loudest. You can't hear anything. Just nobody could understand what's going on. You just got rocked.

[Jocko Willink]

And how early was that for you in deployment?

[Ryan Jackson]

Like a week.

[Jocko Willink]

What were you doing in the brad?

[Ryan Jackson]

They would drive us out to the end of sector and we just walk. Like, we'd walk. You saw the grid system. We just walked down streets and we were slowly pushing our way into the city, making our presence known. But what we didn't know is, you know, the Moos, they were coming behind us and intimidating the local population and watching us and filming us. Like, I know we sent y' all some intel stuff, like video cameras we captured and stuff. And they were just watching us. They were planning and just waiting. But yeah, as far as optimpo, like we go on a patrol.

[Jocko Willink]

So wait a second, so you got blowed up? That was your first time getting blown up in a brad?

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

Anyone get wounded?

[Ryan Jackson]

No.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah. Also that's early on the Brads, because they got bigger and bigger IEDs as time went on. Yeah. Yeah, so they probably had a. They probably had a B. An IED meant for a Humvee. But they hit a Brad.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

Didn't get anyone.

[Ryan Jackson]

And it was just. I remember Brad just like it hit us and just blew right through. So I think we stopped and called EOD so they could do a post blast analysis or something. I don't know if we did that. I think we were just everybody. The adrenaline was kicking so much. But we go patrol and come back and you think you got eight hours to, you know, recoup. But when we come off patrol, we're immediately on QRF for another eight hours. And then you get your eight hours to prep for the next patrol. So we would be off. Sometimes you get an hour, sometimes you get two hours. But just be laying there on your. On your cot, whatever, and hear an explosion or. You don't have to say anything. Just get your gear on. We're going back out. And we had our own qrf. We had to respond to our own guys.

[Jocko Willink]

So, yeah, before we hit record today, I was. Well, I guess I was essentially thanking you guys because we didn't have our own qrf. We didn't have enough people to QRF ourselves. So our QRF was always an army or Marine Corps unit. It was always you guys coming to help us when we got into trouble. And, you know, so when you hear those explosions or you hear those big gunfights happen or you hear casualties happening, you guys would know it'd be you coming to get us.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, I know. You remember Charlie Med, you know, they would put out announcements over the intercom. You know, we need a positive blood. And everybody, if you. Whatever it was, it didn't matter who it was. Like sometimes I donated blood to, you know, an Iraqi fighter. I didn't know at the time, but you just, you go to give blood and it was blood, blood transfusion, and you just. That happened every day. Yeah, you just come across the loudspeakers and.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah, they'd have the MASH casualty recalls for blood. Yeah, we'd send guys up too.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

So your op tempo is 8 hours on 8 hours QRF. 8 hours prep for the next mission.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

Somewhere. At no time did I say sleep. At no time did I say pt. At no time did I say relax and call home.

[Ryan Jackson]

No, no, that was. We didn't do pt. I mean, PT was every day, but, you know, in the winter months, I think it would slow down a little bit, but not really much. Usually after we go out on a QRF mission, you have A little couple hours of downtime, but you're just prepping for the next patrol with the chow hall, if you're lucky. Luckily, we had good cooks. They were always there for us. I did have one situation where I just got off a patrol, and we are nasty. I've been covered in dirt, blood, and sweat. And I had a major that was standing at the door that said we couldn't come in like that. I was like, bro, we're going back out in like 30 minutes. Like, you're gonna let my guys eat. I got into it with a major. I know. I think I called Captain Lan Song or Captain Graham at the time, and I was like, this. What's going on? He was like, I got it. Yeah, took care of that.

[Jocko Willink]

But, yeah, they were generally pretty friendly to the guys that were out in this getting after it. That's. That's kind of the vibe that I got because, you know, I. I had one of my CB guys who. We had a. We got mortar, and we got like a big water tank blown up, and he went out and like, within 24 hours, actually, it's probably within 12 hours, he had his new water tank. You know, it got like. I don't. It's probably like a thousand gallon water tank. He got it back and got a new one and blah, blah, blah. And I was like. I was like, hey, Chief, really appreciate you getting that thing done. He goes, hey, sir, as long as. I just don't want no more boom boom in the camp. Yeah, that's it. Cool.

[Ryan Jackson]

I didn't even know what a CB was until we were there. And they. They helped us out a lot. I mean, they would come in and build bunks for us and stuff. And we, you know, we started sleeping on cots, and all of a sudden they were building us, like, bunk beds and stuff, hooking up AC units and definitely shout out to those guys.

[Jocko Willink]

So as this is all going on, do you have how much. How much of your thought processes about like, hey, what progress are we making? What's the overall plan here? Were you getting briefed on that stuff, or were you more thinking day to day, this is what we're doing?

[Ryan Jackson]

It was day to day. I mean, we had target packages every night at that point. I didn't think we were making any progress. It didn't seem like we were. Definitely didn't seem like we were. If anything, the enemy was getting smarter. Genius tactics. I got to give them credit for that.

[Jocko Willink]

What were some of the things that impressed you?

[Ryan Jackson]

So their pressure plate, the way they detonated pressure plates. You know, there would be a house in a courtyard, and there'd be a street, a tiny little canal road, and there'd be a garden on the other side. We found one where they had a garden hose. They had somehow got the positive negative wire through the hose, and we drove over it. And that. That triggered the ied or where they would take the side of the sidewalk out and they would encase a 155 round and like Styrofoam and paint it to look like the sidewalk and put it back. Or just simple things like they'd send a. Just cardboard just laying in the street. Positive negative wire we just run over that detonated. And then when we got the. The red and blue system, the jamming systems, they figured out that we could. Because they were using cell phones or the two way radios to detonate them, they figured out we were jamming them. So they would have kids out in the street, remote control cars, and they would try to see which vehicle had the jammers on it. And I mean, gotta give them credit for that. I mean, they're smart.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah. One of the things that impressed me was they would burn a tire in the street. That would melt the tar. And so one person would burn a tire, and then someone else would go and dig the tar out and. And then someone else would go dig a hole. Yeah, and then someone else would put a bomb in the hole, and then someone else would rig it back up, and then someone else would fill the hole back in, and then someone else would put the tar back. And then once they put the tar back on, this is what impressed me was it was like they would then put dust on it and sweep it and then unsweep it. And so it just. You wouldn't be able to see it. It just looked like the freaking road.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

Because it's not like the roads are there beautiful pavement anyways. But it would. Just the effort that they would go through over time to make this happen and do it and in a clandestine way where it's like, oh, they are. This is their neighborhood.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah. There's trash and debris everywhere. All right. One crazy thing. We had the financier, the IED cell, like, I don't know where we got the intel from. We knew it was him. We had arrested this dude three times. And every time he gets out, we didn't have anything to keep him locked up for a while. And one of our lieutenants got the idea, you know, we're gonna use the propaganda against them. So we snatched them up and we would take them to a corner of Tamim and get out, take pictures of them, you know, with the cell phone, you know, with Americans, and take them to the other corner and do that, take pictures. The next day we found him, hands and feet tied up behind his back, forehead split open, and they had sewn a 155 round in his back. We were like, yeah, that's him. But also there's wires coming out of his back. So savages. I mean, absolute savages.

[Jocko Willink]

As time is going on day to day, what's your mentality? You know, at first you're, you know, you're in Kuwait, you're fired up, like, want to make this happen. We want to go to war. You get there, you guys are taking casualties out of the gate. You're losing guys out of the, out of the gate. Does it become, at some point, I always feel like things just become kind of a blur of just like. It was interesting when I had. I know you said you mentioned you listen to the podcast with General McFarland. It wasn't until I did that podcast that I realized the timeline in my mind, it was all these kind of separate events that had happened. It seemed in my mind weeks, if not months apart, but they were literally two, three days apart. But every operation was so massive and so much moving parts that it seemed like this one singular event and then another singular event. But in reality it's like, no, we were just, oh, that was three days later. That was two days later. Did you get into like a blur mindset what was going on in your head?

[Ryan Jackson]

Absolutely. So, you know, like they all ran together. You know, we'd have some high profile missions, but we just get, you know, one night, Tuesday night we'd get go, go get this guy. And those were cool. But then there was always something that popped off with those things that would, you know, that's how you remember it. Like so and so got shot, so and so got blown up. And that's how you remember it. And it wasn't until, let's see, about three or four years ago, I was listening to Joe Rogan's podcast and he talked about sensor deprivation tanks. And they're one opened up in Columbus, Georgia. And I went and did that and it was like my second or third time and I just remember there laying there and like stuff just pops up. Like missions that pop up or like certain memories that I didn't. They're just buried in the back of my head. And I think that's where a lot of ptsd stems from that. People don't realize.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ryan Jackson]

You can't. You can't talk about stuff if. If it all blurs together. You know, I used to joke that everything we did was legit and legal, but we were always under investigation. And they sent in a, you know, army CID or whatever, come down, investigate us. I'd be like, which mission? You know, like, what. Which one are you talking about? And it was hard, you know, to remember. Like, we did this last night, we did this night before, you know, so.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah, that there's no doubt of the amount of scrutiny we were all under in terms of, like, rules of engagement and, you know, collateral damage. Like, there was investigations. We. I mean, my guys had to. Had to sign a sworn shooter statement.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

After every operation, everything killed. I don't know if you guys had to do that. And at the time, you know, my guys were like, oh, what's this for? And I said, hey, listen, in the future, someone's going to dig into this and be like, well, why'd you kill this guy? Here's why we killed this guy. Here's what was seen. Here's why the shot was taken. And so it was a good move.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

But at the time, it feels like, you know, it feels like unwanted scrutiny.

[Ryan Jackson]

Feels like you're getting it from both ends.

[Jocko Willink]

But one of the best things I learned from the. From the first, the 506 over on the other side of Craig, was like, the attitude of, like, come investigate. Like, if you think something is wrong, please come down here, investigate. And I said that over and over again. Oh, you think something's going on? Please come and investigate. You know, send people down here, take them out. You want to go see what's up?

[Ryan Jackson]

Come on, Come with us.

[Jocko Willink]

Come on out. Come and get it. Like, you want to see what's going on there. You want to see why people are getting shot? Why. Why the enemy is getting shot, why our kill counts so high. Come and come down here. Bring a notebook and bring some body.

[Ryan Jackson]

Armor, because that's ever happened.

[Jocko Willink]

Let everyone out, you know, and that's another cool thing that you just talked about was, you know, when people talk about. When they think of, like, special operations missions, they think of like, oh, we get this target and we go out and hit this target. Well, it didn't take us long to figure out, Ramadi, that if we got a target, because we had great. Our. My intel shop, my guys were freaking awesome, and they worked in close conjunction, but we had really good forms of intelligence. I'll leave it at that. And we would get targets all the time. And didn't take me very long to realize, well, I could get my guys, spin them up, put them in humvees, drive them out to town, have them dismount, have them go hit a target, by the way, with Iraqi soldiers, you know, come back and that's what they'd be doing for the next 12 hours. Or I could call you guys to go be like, hey, there's a guy in building 18 Alpha. You guys cool? We'll call you in 20 minutes. We literally. They call us like your, your, you know, platoon commanders or company commanders call something like, hey, we got the guy. Cool, send him. We'll send more detainment facility. We'll be there and, and we'll do the interrogations. Because you guys were out in the streets and you were out in the neighborhood so much. And we had. Obviously we had 38 and 13 7, the. The 506. So in the downtown area, it was like totally covered by US military. And you guys knew the neighborhoods and knew the buildings so well. You probably knew the guy that you probably be like, oh, yeah, we already talked to that guy. We talked to him yesterday. We'll go talk to him again. We'll go grab him. So the cooperation that we had with you guys was. It was awesome.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

And, you know, occasionally we'd be like, oh, yeah, there's this guy or there's this particular threat or something like that. And so we'd roll out, I think. But we only did like, we probably only did like 35 or 40 actual direct action missions where we went out and hit a target. Most of the time we just call you guys up. When I say you guys, I mean, we'd call up you guys, whatever battalion owned the battle space, and you guys would just get it done in like 12 minutes. Like, yeah, we are there. I had conversations like, you're in the building right now. They're like, yeah, okay, cool. Let me get my intel guys and get the name for you. Because you guys hit the target so fast. And that's. That was the. That was the idea of the permanent presence inside these neighborhoods was that you guys were just always there.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, yeah. I got to the point where we were doing so many, you know, raids like that that before we started doing the skts, know, the small kill teams that instead of doing like a hard entry, you know, where you blast the door, throw flashbang stuff, we would try to sneak in. I got videos that we would like, we snuck in someone's house and one of our dudes jumped in the bed with them because we were that quiet, you know, or we'd, like, step over people to, like, clear the rest of the house and then wake them up and then zip strip them and stuff. But, like, we got surgical with it.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah, that was a definite change. Same thing for us. You know, this idea of breaching the front door, which always seems exciting, and it always seems. And there are some tactical advantages to it, but the tactical advantage of sneaking into the building and just getting full control before you wake anybody up, that doesn't get. There's not much more advantages. You can get that mission right there. So as these things blur together in your head, are you start. Are you feeling any combat fatigue? Are you feeling, you know, the odds starting to click up? You know, I feel like, you know, we're playing a little bit of Russian roulette here, and you start rolling the dice every day, and you're rolling the dice every eight hours, Right. Every dowager's rolling the dice. Were you thinking about that or were you disconnected to the point where it's like, this is your job. This is what you're doing?

[Ryan Jackson]

I think it was about a month in where I've made the conscious decision, you know, it's going to happen. You know, we've already lost so many guys, we're taking so many hits that my time's my time. Hopefully it's quick, you know, hopefully snipe around or an IED or something catastrophic. Hopefully. I don't, like, lose legs or something bad like, I. I just accepted it. And between that, you just live off adrenaline, nicotine, and hate, I guess.

[Jocko Willink]

I think we just made a T shirt, Charles. Adrenaline, nicotine, and hate. That's a long. That's a long stretch of time in your brain. The casualties keep coming for you guys. I know on you guys lost staff Sergeant Swanson as well. That's what, July, I think. And again, all you can do is go to the memorial service, go to the angel flight, get your gear back on, and go back out.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

Over and over and over again.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yep.

[Jocko Willink]

I know you mentioned that you remember a little bit about, like, setting security for Colonel Dean to go meet with some shakes and not realizing at the time what a huge impact that those meetings were going to have on the war.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah. I don't know how I got attached to his psd. I think Captain Lanon was out with him or something. I was just part of the. The whole convoy. But I remember sitting outside his compound and, you know, we were obviously out outer security. So we'd sit with him and some of his guys would come up and with us and Chevy Aztec, nickel plated ak, like just hanging out with them.

[Jocko Willink]

And that's another T shirt, dude. A Chevy. I got pictures. A Pontiac Aztec with. I got pictures.

[Ryan Jackson]

Let's go sitting next to. Dude. It was a shorty too. It wasn't even like a full size. It was bad. But just like hanging out with these guys and I was like, what? I. I didn't know what we were doing at the time. You know, that's above my pay grade. So I know we're just there. And yeah, at the time, I had no idea what we were doing. I thought we were just talking to like the mayor or something. But lo and behold, you know, we're changing stuff.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah. That was the beginning of the. The Alar awakening. Did you get any leave during when you were in Radi? Did you go home on leave?

[Ryan Jackson]

I took my mentor leave right before we went to Ramoni, when we were still in Kuwait, which I'm very fortunate was the way it happened, because I couldn't imagine, you know, leaving Radi and coming back. You know, I don't. It's hard to turn your brain off from that one and just to go back and like, you know, be back in civilian world or whatever and then have to go back into that. So I'm glad I. I was fortunate enough to, you know, do it before we went up to Romani, but a lot of guys weren't, you know, Colonel Dean said he went in the middle of deployment, so I just can't. It's hard to turn your brain off for something like that. So.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah, I definitely. Like I said, we do shorter deployments and so I haven't been in a position of going home and then having to come back to it. But I'll tell you, that seems like it would be very, very difficult to do. Very, very difficult to like, oh, I'm about to get killed, go home, Be in total peace and harmony with your family and then know that as soon as you get home. Okay, I got two weeks.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

And then be right back in the. Again.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah. You know, measured up like America Sniper, you know, and Chris, Carl comes home and he's watching stuff on the news, you know, something like that. Like you're see, you know, what's going on, you know, more than anybody else does. And at that, you know, you got to go back too. So I'm just glad that wasn't a situation.

[Jocko Willink]

Did you see the movie Warfare?

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah. Yeah. I was gonna bring that up.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah. Well, one thing that's interesting about that is I was talking to Colonel McFarlane about it and he was, he was home on leave.

[Ryan Jackson]

Really?

[Jocko Willink]

Yep.

[Ryan Jackson]

He.

[Jocko Willink]

Because he asked me, he's like, hey, what, when did this happen? Like, I'm trying to remember if this was this or this was that. And I said, no, this was November 19th, 19th. And he goes, oh, it's home on leave. And you know, he's. And he sings praises of his, his subordinate leadership because when he was home on leave, like they did some of the really successful operations and he's really proud of that because he wasn't even there to.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

To take part in them. But yeah. So you did see Warfare.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, by far the best, you know, war depiction of what we went through I've ever seen. And I watched it with my wife and then eventually I watched it with my 17 year old son. I. I want to make sure 1. I watched it first by myself to kind of get the reaction. I didn't go to theaters. I bought it off Amazon. Then I watched it with my wife. And you can't really explain to your spouses what you went through. You can't really, like, you know, now we got shot at, we got blown up. But until you see something like that, like, that was by far the best depiction of what we went through.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah.

[Ryan Jackson]

Hands down.

[Jocko Willink]

I went and saw it in the theater. I went with my wife as well. And it was interesting. I sat down to watch it and all of a sudden I hear, hey, Jocko. And I look over and it's another guy from Tasking. When he's with his wife. I'm like, what's up, bro? Then we sat there and watched it and it was over and the theater emptied out. And we're sitting there like, okay, I think. And I haven't really directly asked my wife. I mean, my wife was kind of like. I mean, obviously she thought it was really moving movie. But I haven't really asked her like, what she thought. It seemed like, from her perspective, like, I, like, I would like to say, like, did it seem crazy? Did it seem like there was like a lot of mayhem going on? I think obviously it was like that. So she'd be like, absolutely. But we haven't really had that deep conversation about it. And the other interesting thing is, like, she knows Elliot and so there's like another connection there. So I don't know. I'll have to ask her about that.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, Most of the dudes that made it.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah, yeah. And the guy that made it just, you know, he was there.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yes.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah. So you watched it three times? Because I've only seen it once.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

How is it the second time? How is it the third time?

[Ryan Jackson]

I mean, what is bad? That's that same comment my son made when we finished watching. He said, so you watch it three times now? Yeah, but I had to watch it by myself first just because I make sure, you know.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah.

[Ryan Jackson]

One I was going to do to me. I don't know if that was a good idea or a bad idea, but it was fine. And then it made sure there was no distractions and watching my wife and went through that. And.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah, I told those guys because I had Nick or. Sorry, Elliot and Joe on the podcast, the two guys that got wounded. They came on the podcast and, like, telling them, you know, like, what it was like leaving Ramadi and knowing what those guys were getting into. And you know how it is, man. Like, it's kind of like you said when you turned over the 228. The 228, they probably told all your leadership like, hey, it's really freaking bad out there. And of course, leadership's like, yeah, it's not that bad. Like, we're gonna go. That's what it's like. The. The guys from Team five, like, same thing. Like, we're like, hey. I remember telling them, and I said this on the podcast, like, you guys are going to take casualties, and no one ever thinks you're going to take castles, you know, and certainly no one ever thinks they're going to be the casualty. Right. It always happens to someone else. But that is a good. You know, some of the images that they put in with the guys walking or the moos walking around and walking in and out of buildings and, like, looking and not looking and talking on radios and not talking on radios and snipers are like, wait a second, what are you seeing? Well, I got something here, and I got movement. We got building with. And you're hearing the radio reports. It's like, all that stuff is very radish.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah. Yeah. Like, can you shoot a guy holding a cell phone looking at your position? You probably get away with it, but, you know, at that time, you can't. I mean, he's not doing anything. He might just be calling home. But you. You know what he's doing deep down inside. You know what he's doing or.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah.

[Ryan Jackson]

You know, the guy at. I shot our dude at the university right before we did that big mission, like, we were doing Overwatch, just seeing what they're doing, just looking at dudes. And it was two dudes with a shovel and a wheelbarrow. And I was like, I. You know that gut feeling. I was like, ain't no reason to be digging right there where he was digging. I ended up shooting him. And lo and behold, he had debt cord, he had a pickaxe, and they were putting something in so they weren't.

[Jocko Willink]

Doing freaking road construction in 2006. That's the same thing with like people with bombs. It's like you're not. And by the way, someone with a radio, because the cell phone towers were actually down.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

And sometimes people get reported as they were talking on a cell phone, and you could say it looked like they're talking to cell phone, but they're talking on a radio.

[Ryan Jackson]

Right.

[Jocko Willink]

But even those guys, it's like they're coordinating an attack. And it's really. As soon as you see maneuvering taking place and now you got a guy on the radio. Okay, well, this guy is no longer talking to his grandma. Yeah, this guy is coordinating an attack on coalition forces and he's going to get killed. That's what's happening.

[Ryan Jackson]

The other thing we did mosque monitors a lot, which I thought was kind of dumb at first, but then like, looking back and you know, they're called a prayer. They give like the whole sermon over in the mosque. So they literally called everybody in for the jihad. Yeah. And they're like, bring them in.

[Jocko Willink]

And did you guys have interpreters with us?

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, yeah. We would have actual mosque war intermissions. We'd go out and we just park some somewhere and wait for, you know, call a prayer and listen. And the truck would be like, this ain't good.

[Jocko Willink]

Yep. Like, we had. We had both Iraqi soldiers and interpreters. Like American or coalition interpreters. Yeah, same thing. You'd be like, this isn't gonna go. They're coming right now because they're straight up saying, hey, it is time for jihad. That's like what they are saying. The time for jihad is now. Assemble in this area.

[Ryan Jackson]

Right.

[Jocko Willink]

Like, assemble at the soccer stadium. Assemble here. Like, that's what they're straight up doing.

[Ryan Jackson]

I don't know if they knew we were listening to them or they just didn't give a shit. But I mean, that's. That's part of the religion. So.

[Jocko Willink]

As. As time is progressing, did you feel like your awareness, your combat, like, how good did you feel? Like you and your team were getting.

[Ryan Jackson]

More confident as we were going. Luckily, I didn't have any Serious injuries or casualties. In my squad at the time, I, you know, everybody had their own nickname for their squad or whatever. I don't care what ours was. But yeah, we were just getting good. I know you talked Colonel Dean about scooping up that emom. That was my squad. Like we were setting up for an skt. That's one of the house we actually snuck into. And we got, we caught the dudes jump on the wall. And one of my soldiers like grabbed him because the mosque was right there behind the house. And we grabbed him like, where you going? What are you doing? Suspect? He's like, oh, I don't know. Emoms don't jump walls. You can use the door.

[Jocko Willink]

Emoms don't rerun it.

[Ryan Jackson]

But. So we scooped him up and at the time I had no idea the impact that would have. So we got him and called him up and I remember some black SUV showed up and took him away.

[Jocko Willink]

And how did you feel like your guys were handling it like on your team?

[Ryan Jackson]

Oh, they were getting, they were getting their own confidence. You know, we'd go hit a target package or we'd do skts, you know, small kill teams. We'd set up. We'd walk in Bradley's, drop us off one end of town. We walk in, we'd take a building or sometimes we would go into one building and then we use the rooftops and go a couple downs so they couldn't like target us. And we'd set up and we'd catch them putting IDs in and we'd smoke them. And that would just build confidence. Like we felt like we were protecting our dudes that were going out the next morning. That's exactly what we were doing. But we were getting good at it too.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah. Damn to me was a freaking idea. It really was. Those IDs were massive too. Like, massive. Like especially was. Horror was horrific was when they started building IDs to use against Bradley's and.

[Ryan Jackson]

Tanks, the shape charges.

[Jocko Willink]

But then they would hit humvees with them.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

And it would just be like total devastation.

[Ryan Jackson]

I mean for a mine resistant cougar to get cut in half, I mean that's, you know, they would, they would take one, the manhole cover that Colonel Dean talked about. And then, you know, copper plates that would just make an EMP or efp.

[Jocko Willink]

Efp.

[Ryan Jackson]

And then they'd add the accelerant and they just.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah, that's another thing I've, I've always kind of talked about is the damn vehicle graveyard when you're driving out the main gate, and you're driving by 75 or 100 freaking vehicles that are just twisted wreckage. And you're like, wait a second. All those vehicles right there come from the city that I'm driving out through right now.

[Ryan Jackson]

We took 14 Bradley's to Ramadi. Didn't bring any back. Bradley's. I mean, we had. We went through two fleets of Humvees. Yeah. I mean, they. They would just get annihilated and up armored home fees. Oh, Bradley like to take a Bradley out, that's. That's serious.

[Jocko Willink]

You know what was a Bradley?

[Ryan Jackson]

Way 33 tons, I think. Don't hold me to that, but I'm pretty sure that's it.

[Jocko Willink]

That's insane.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

And they took out nine. I think it was nine Abrams.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

Which is almost 70 tons.

[Ryan Jackson]

And I think it's like six inches of armor on the bottom of Bradley. And specialist Schaefer, when he was killed, he was a driver. And the ID that hit underneath his driver's seat and actually forced him up. Like, that's what killed him, the impact. But, like, the amount of explosives it takes for that. We had one barrel that got flipped over on its side, and the barrel just happened to be pointing to the side. I got flipped over the bear. I got a picture. The barrel is buried in concrete, like, in the cement, like, up to 6 inches. And it's like laying on its side barrel holding it up. So that's a lot of explosives.

[Jocko Willink]

You guys lose Schaefer on September 13th and then. And then Lazarin, which we started this thing off on September 26th, and that was pretty close to you guys going home, right?

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

When did you actually head home?

[Ryan Jackson]

November, I believe.

[Jocko Willink]

Okay.

[Ryan Jackson]

2000, 6 or 7.

[Jocko Willink]

How. How are you guys doing at the end? Coming towards the end of deployment.

[Ryan Jackson]

We didn't stop. Cop dealer was the last thing that we did. And my squad happened to be the squad that got left there, and we didn't have any Bradley's left, so it was time for us to, like, rip out. And my squad walked from cop dealer all the way back to the front gate because nobody can pick us up. Like, we didn't stop. Our op tempo was all literally up to the day we left.

[Jocko Willink]

And cop dealer was by the university, right? Yeah.

[Ryan Jackson]

I mean, a couple kilometers, like, three or four kilometers.

[Jocko Willink]

Did you skirt the city?

[Ryan Jackson]

No, we walked down the middle. I think we all just said it like. Like, sorry, excuse me.

[Jocko Willink]

Do I want to walk four clicks through. Through a little bit safer. We're going straight through to Meme.

[Ryan Jackson]

I think we were just trying to catch. With our pants down maybe, I guess just walk through and, you know, let's see what we could. Let's get in one more fight or, you know, one more thing, but we're going. They didn't know we were leaving, so. Also, nobody replaces the cop dealer that I recall that we just left. They just told us to pack it up and come home and just walk back down the streets.

[Jocko Willink]

Dang, dude. So you guys pack up? Do you. Did you know when your last mission was?

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, that was it.

[Jocko Willink]

That was it.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah. Yeah, we. We were doing the right, like, seat. Right seat. Ride with the other unit. It was first id, which, ironically, is the unit I went to. After that. I was like, can't catch a break. But I know. Ripping out with them. And they had, you know, static position, so we weren't, like, alone into me, you know, we had stack position checking in with them and stuff. And. Yeah, that I think they told us y' all come in. That's it. That's it. Yeah. I think two days later, we were out of there.

[Jocko Willink]

And then it's back to Germany.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

And how are you doing when you're heading. When you. When you get back to Germany?

[Ryan Jackson]

Numb, I guess. Best way to describe it. It's hard. Like, I know when I got blown up, they had a thing where they were calling the wives. I was like, why are we doing this? Like, we don't need to do that. Like, if we're not seriously injured, then you call. But they would call the wives for any incident like that.

[Jocko Willink]

Did they keep that up for the whole deployment?

[Ryan Jackson]

Oh, no, they didn't start, like, in the last three or four months.

[Jocko Willink]

Oh, okay.

[Ryan Jackson]

So I was like, I'm gonna get ahead of this. And I called my wife at the time, and I was like, I blown up, but both my eardrums are ruptured and I couldn't hear. So I'm yelling, you know, I got blown up. She's like, what? I don't know if you can hear me or not, but I can't hear myself. So I got blown up. Just in case somebody calls you let, you know, like, I'm okay, whatever. Okay. You know, tell her what. Okay. So I felt. I felt like at the time that would be better to hear from me than, like, somebody calling and say, hey, John Jackson got blown up. But so coming back to Germany, it was. It was even wilder than it was the first deployment. Like, dudes, I remember going to check on my guys the first Night, like drove. Driving from housing, going to the barracks and pulling up on the barracks and there's, you know, a three story beer bong with a garden hose. Just, I mean, ain't drinking a year and not out here pouring liquor and beer or whatever into the. Just trying to. I feel like dudes are just numbing themselves even more and just. Same thing. Reintegration was like three or four days and everybody just checking the box. Checking the box.

[Jocko Willink]

When you go to reintegration, like for the. Is it like a psych eval that they're doing?

[Ryan Jackson]

It's a whole bunch of different stations. I think it was like the gym and they had it all like sectioned off and you go to like, go to audio, take the hearing test, you go to tbi, which it wasn't really a thing back then. So they were kind of figuring out, you just go to General Med and, you know, you. All the different states, whatever they were. I can't remember what they were. But you had. You walked around this checklist and you had to get it signed off.

[Jocko Willink]

So the quicker you get done with that, the greater you get back to that three foot beer bowl. Yeah.

[Ryan Jackson]

Oh, three story.

[Jocko Willink]

Three stories.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah. They were on the three store. They had a garden hose. A garden hose.

[Jocko Willink]

Oh, man.

[Ryan Jackson]

And dudes are going downtown. I don't know why they lock us down the base, but dudes going downtown. Bomb Holder's tiny community. Like, when we left, the community fell apart because there was no income. So when we got back, dudes were just wild. I don't know if the Germans were ready for that or not, but getting in fights, just trash and stuff. I mean.

[Jocko Willink]

And how are you doing at this point?

[Ryan Jackson]

I mean, I was at home at the time with my wife, so. I mean.

[Jocko Willink]

Are you sleeping? All right.

[Ryan Jackson]

I don't remember. I know I was drinking a lot.

[Jocko Willink]

Just getting after the German beer.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, it's just. I don't. Yeah, that was all a daze. I mean, they just waiting to go home because everybody went home. I think it was, what, even two weeks before we all got like block leave. So everybody's just trying to get through the process and get home.

[Jocko Willink]

And then where'd you go and leave?

[Ryan Jackson]

I went back home to Gwinnett County, Georgia, Snellville area. And then I went up to my family's house in Hiawassee, North Georgia. And we just, you know, we tried to cover everything. Tried to see everybody at the same time, which. Cramming it all in. You know, it's. I don't know if that was the best idea. But you got to see everybody. You know, one, we've been in Germany for so long and coming home and just got out of war and got to see everybody. So it was non stop boom, going everywhere, doing everything. I think that was kind of a good thing. Because it can be distracted.

[Jocko Willink]

Yes. Yeah, I imagine it could be good in that way.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

And how it's interesting because you, you did that first deployment where it was relatively mellow.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

And you know, you got this big hero's welcome and everything. And now you come back from this deployment where it was anything but. Yeah, mellow.

[Ryan Jackson]

But my family didn't know any of that. Yeah, they didn't know anything that we went through and didn't tell them. So I mean it's kind of faking the funk as you go through and just kind of acting like everything's fine and smile on your face and carry on. Yeah, pretty much.

[Jocko Willink]

What was the next, what was your next assignment?

[Ryan Jackson]

So we came back and then a huge chunk of our, our company was all getting orders to leave at the same time.

[Jocko Willink]

And once you're going to go be a drill sergeant or something.

[Ryan Jackson]

Well, first I was, I was gonna go to 3rd ID in Savannah, Fort Stewart. Okay. So you know, we were looking forward to that. One part of the leave was I'd knocked my ex wife up at the time, so we had it. We were pregnant. So we're going back to the States and we're gonna have a baby. Looking forward to that. Which we did actually try for. So I. We decided we want to wait till we got back to the States. So we did that. The night we left was a little rough on her. All the guys, the hotel together got trash and stuff. I don't know how I made it back, but. So I was supposed to go to Fort Stewart, Georgia and so it was.

[Jocko Willink]

Going to be like getting stationed by your home.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah. Or at least.

[Jocko Willink]

And that's where she's. That's where she was from as well.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah. Okay. So we would be like three hours from home, which is a hell of.

[Jocko Willink]

A lot closer than Germany.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah. Yeah. So but two or three days before we were supposed to fly. Like our household goods are gone. We got nothing. Like we back to the army furniture. What we started three days before. Like I'm checking my mil part, my army email and stuff. And my orders got changed to forhood Texas. We're stand up a new light infantry unit, first ID 22 infantry. I was like, that's. That's a chicken. The nuts right. There. So I guess we're going to Texas. So our. Our household goods were on a boat already, like on the way to Georgia, and we had to get to Texas. And, you know, I decided we're not going to live on post, we're going to live off post. So had to rent a house. It's my first time doing that. We did have furniture and all that stuff at that time, so didn't have.

[Jocko Willink]

To get the army issues.

[Ryan Jackson]

No grandfather clock and all the. All the stuff. And we got set up in Texas and my oldest son was born in October. That was crazy. It was literally a brand new unit that they disbanded 2, 2 infantry and then restarted at Fort Hood. And I was one of the first NCOs to get there. So out of all of us that left, they just spread us across a new battalion. So I was like the only NCO and Charlie Company, Tutu infantry for like three or four months. When I got brand new privates, like out of base training, I was like, I don't know what to do with y' all. Really. Nobody's telling me what to do. I don't know what to do. So we just did PT and we'd hang around for a little bit and do some training and sent them home. And finally we got a first Sergeant. Appreciate you holding it down. Here's what's going. Then, you know, unit started filling up and stuff, and they're like, we're going to Afghanistan in 11 months. I was like, jesus Christ, I can't catch a break. And then, yeah, I was like, Afghanistan, that's a different ball game. So about three months before we were supposed to go to Afghanistan, I came down on drill serge orders.

[Jocko Willink]

So you. So you did like a workup with these guys?

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, we did everything. Yeah, I had my own squad. I was a platoon leader for a little platoon sergeant for a little while. I had a whole platoon. We were ready to go. Afghanistan.

[Jocko Willink]

How'd you like. How'd you like being in those leadership positions?

[Ryan Jackson]

I love it. I mean, I liked it.

[Jocko Willink]

And are you at this point thinking you're gonna be in the army for 20 years, 30 years, whatever?

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

This is your deal.

[Ryan Jackson]

Actually, I just done the in depth reenlistment.

[Jocko Willink]

What's that?

[Ryan Jackson]

Where you just the rest of my time. So I was in like eight years.

[Jocko Willink]

And I was like, 12 more years.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, 12 more years.

[Jocko Willink]

You get a bonus for that?

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, it was like 15 grand. Yeah, well, the way the army does it, you know, get all at once and it gets taxed, like.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah, The Navy does the same thing.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, it looks good on paper. Yeah. Right. Sounds good when they're signing it too.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah. Because if you think. Because. Well, the way the Navy did it was they would. You'd get half of it now, but then the rest of it would be divided over the rest of your time. So you five. Five. Yeah. To get taxed. So you probably got like four grand in your pocket.

[Ryan Jackson]

I know some of my SF bodies would have like they would get deployed to a combat zone just so it would get all tax free. Yeah, it must be nice. But yeah, like I was prepared to go mentally. One, I had a son at the time, so I was mentally preparing myself to go to Afghanistan. And then I came out and drill started orders and I was relieved. I was embarrassed. And then I was like, I don't.

[Jocko Willink]

Torn like so do they. How do you get selected for drill sergeant?

[Ryan Jackson]

It's the top 1% of your MOS. I don't know. I guess they just look through files and trying to find somebody like spots to fill and so is it considered.

[Jocko Willink]

Like a good thing when you get selected sergeant? Okay. Because I don't know, it's really good for your career.

[Ryan Jackson]

Guaranteed to get promoted when you get done, if not while you're there. And so I was looking at that aspect like I just realistic in deaf going on the trail trail to be a drill sergeant, do that and I don't have to deploy. So I was like, I'll be safe for at least two years.

[Jocko Willink]

Because they've been. You've been, you've been burning your share.

[Ryan Jackson]

I was like, at least I get two years off, you know, even if I'm working 18, 20 hour days, six days a week, coming home every night. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Jocko Willink]

So but at the same time, you've also got the hold on these guys that I've just, just trained and now.

[Ryan Jackson]

I'm gonna leave them. And my worst fears actually happened. You know, they were in Afghanistan. I was, I just graduated drill sergeant school. I was on the 50 Cal range yelling at some privates and I get a call from my ex wife saying that my squad got hit. Two of my soldiers got killed from suicide bomber. The lady that just walked up to him in the market and the squad leader replaced me and got blown up and lost his arm. And we were best friends. So I was like, that was rough. You know, one of my favorite soldiers, really good friends, Josh Rath, he was killed. And then another really good soldier of mine, Keith Esther got killed. Like the two closest ones to me are the ones got killed. My middle name, son's named after Josh for that reason. But that, that really messed me up, I think, like survivor's guilt, I guess because I couldn't be there for him. I should have been there for him. But at the same time, we got a family now, so it should be a home, a family. So it was kind of hard to weigh all that. I think that's when stuff started piling up.

[Jocko Willink]

So what is it? What does it look like when, or feel like when, quote, stuff starts piling up, like what's happening in your life as you're dealing with the survivor's guilt and all the combat that you've been through, losing guys. When you say that things are piling up and it starts to take, take its toll on you, what does that look like?

[Ryan Jackson]

If I wasn't a drill sergeant and didn't have that distraction, it would have been a lot worse than it was. But short temper, easily angered, drinking a lot. I go to the doctor for. I had bad headaches, bad, like debilitating headaches. My back was jacked up. I go to the doctor and they would give me 120 Percocet for a month. They would give me hydrocodone at the same time. Like just. I had a bag of. And I'm still a drill sergeant. Like I'm still walking around, going on 8, 9, 10 mile road marches and just eating pills and drinking in the evening when I get off and just, you know, didn't really have a relationship with my family, you know. Luckily I was. I was able to turn off the drill sergeant when I got home. So I had like, it's weird, I had this tree outside my house and I would like, I'd rub the tree and I would like turn off the drill sergeant, like take off my hat. So I go in the house. I could be a normal person. You know, My son at the time was three, whatever. So interact with him. And that was my, that was my piece. But it was starting, it was, it's getting bad. And I was constantly going to appointments and I go to the TBI clinic and they're like, I couldn't remember. I started messing up at work, forgetting stuff, you know, and with TBI clinic and they're like, you, it ain't gonna work. I'd get MRIs and there'd be like a mass. They didn't know what it was.

[Jocko Willink]

They'd look at it and that's reassuring when they look at your brain and go, there's some shit in There, we don't even know what it is.

[Ryan Jackson]

But then you go back for the next appointment to a different doctor, and you have to re. Explain everything. They have to look at everything else again, and nobody can give you a solid answer. So eventually, they're just like, I. I feel like they just said, we're tired of dealing, dealing with you. So they offered me a medical retirement. They didn't offer me. They told me, I asked to, like, reclass, like, changing L. Give me a desk draw, give me something else. And they're like, no, you're out. So say like, 18 months as a drill sergeant. You know, I. I plan to stay in the army, so I didn't have a career lined up. And all of a sudden they're like, you're out? And they started this new program where they were getting dudes out in 90 days, so. 90 days. I mean, I was like, out of the Army. And they told me, you know, your VA benefit, you're gonna get VA benefits, you're gonna get retirement, all this stuff. And I was like, all right, well, that's not. Not so bad. You know, go work at Walmart as a Greer or something like that. And that did not happen at all. I got out and nothing. They said I didn't have any money. You know, I didn't have a job. My first job was working from AT&T for a call center. It was a program for veterans they did, which I didn't know at the time, but, like, if you call ATT about your bill or something, you're talking to a disabled veteran. So, like, people would be like, thank you for service. And like, what the hell are you talking about? How do you know that? But it was working from home. It was like, from seven to the graveyard shift, which was terrible. Couldn't spend time with my family. Couldn't do anything. And I was like, I ain't gonna work. Oh, be streaming.

[Jocko Willink]

Got a little interjection there from Caliber.

[Ryan Jackson]

The dog laying down in a good. Yeah, yeah, he's dreaming.

[Jocko Willink]

That's cool.

[Ryan Jackson]

Dreams, which means he's relaxed, so that's good.

[Jocko Willink]

Good. So. So how long did you stay at AT&T for?

[Ryan Jackson]

Oh, like, six months. The. The trainer was like, you know, this might not be the best job for you. I was like, really? Shocker. He was like, you want to be a trainer? And I was like, we can give it a shot. He was like. And then, like, a manager called me and was like, this is not going to work. I was like, okay. I went to some other program. I Can't remember who it was, but this dude really helped me out. He had me take like these assessments and like, they gauge your stuff and help me write a resume. I can't remember his name right now. It'll come to me in about 20 minutes. So Greek name.

[Jocko Willink]

So he put your. He helps you put your resume together.

[Ryan Jackson]

And like, yeah, he was a veteran.

[Jocko Willink]

These are some jobs that you'd be good at.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, he was actually. He ran security for the Georgia Lottery. I was like, that sounds kind of cool. I got towards the facility and stuff. And also, by the way, we just came back from Texas, so we didn't have anywhere to live. Like, I was in Phoenix. I mean, we were in Phoenix City, Alabama already. So we were staying there. I was like, whatever. I was still into guns and.

[Jocko Willink]

I.

[Ryan Jackson]

Was like, I want a suppressor. How do you get a suppressor? So I started looking into it and I found a company that was getting. Because they hadn't passed the law yet that you can have suppressors of, Alabama. So I found a dude that was getting ready. He was like, we're going to be selling suppressors soon. And turned out he was the ex sergeant major for 375 Ranger Battalion. And he was running a shop in his backyard. So I went and met with him. He's like, oh, you're a veteran. I was like, looking around. Can I work for you? He was like, yeah, sure. He was doing contract work, like spook stuff. So he was like. He showed me how to build some guns with custom AR15s. I found out. I love that. I was like, this is cool as we can build anything. Design stuff. We were like, actually CNC in our receivers and turning our own barrels and stuff. I started doing that and we started making.

[Jocko Willink]

What was the name of that company?

[Ryan Jackson]

Chatty Hoochie Gun Works.

[Jocko Willink]

Chattahoochee gun. Is it still around?

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

Oh, right off.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah. He's still running out of his basement, but.

[Jocko Willink]

Awesome.

[Ryan Jackson]

I gotta drop his name because he still has a spook stuff too. But yeah, started doing that and ended up working out great. Like, he was like. He started paying me a retainer and I started. Eventually bought into the business. That's the one time I started feeling like, pride myself and like, this is something I could do. But I did that for seven years, I think.

[Jocko Willink]

Okay.

[Ryan Jackson]

And then had a falling out with some stuff. He was deployed. We made it right after the shooting at the school. Which one? It was the bad one where everybody thought they were going to lose their ars. I made like 120 grand in a month by myself. And he had to pay me commission for that. And it was crazy, but I decided to separate from that. And then I started doing contract work for Raytheon.

[Jocko Willink]

What kind of contract work? Like gunsling and contract work or.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, and then working on the ranges and stuff. Okay, that was cool.

[Jocko Willink]

But stateside or. Yeah, overseas.

[Ryan Jackson]

Both.

[Jocko Willink]

Okay. And how'd you like getting back in the mix again?

[Ryan Jackson]

It was cool. Felt like, you know, one of the cool guys, you know, get to do the cool guy stuff, but you're not in the army. But I did that for about three years and then went in on a Monday and they said our contract was up. And then Friday was my last day.

[Jocko Willink]

So that was that.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

And so what happened after that? What was the next move?

[Ryan Jackson]

I had a. I had an application or a resume on. Indeed. And a. A former Blackhawk colonel found it and contacted me. He owned a budget blinds franchise. He's like, you want to homework? What kind of budget blinds?

[Jocko Willink]

Budget blinds, like.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, it's a franchise. Like.

[Jocko Willink]

Like window coverings.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah. Calm block.

[Jocko Willink]

Blind.

[Ryan Jackson]

I was like, blind what? I don't know anything about that. He was like, I'll teach you. I was like, all right, cool. He took me in, tried to pay me really good working for him, and he showed me the ropes, and I was doing pretty good, working my way up. And we had a falling out. I just. I went through a couple jobs. I just couldn't keep a job. Like, after that, I went to work for the local city doing maintenance stuff that didn't go well at all. I just couldn't assimilate with anybody.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

And this is just. How's the alcohol doing at this time? You drinking a lot?

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, it's working well.

[Jocko Willink]

And what about all these painkillers that you got? Were you staying on pills?

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, not as much because they started regulating them stuff. I had to go like a pain management center and all that, but I definitely cut down for what the army was getting was giving me.

[Jocko Willink]

But you made it up for that with alcohol?

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah. Yeah. And I got back to smoking weed again because I could. And it just started stacking up, and I never really got any kind of treatment for it. After, like, my second or third job, I was like, maybe I'm the problem. And we, at this point, yeah, it takes a little while to admit that. It takes a little while to make that. At this point, we already had, like, three suicides just, you know, from our unit alone. I was like, it's not like nobody like, dudes going to jail for 20 years for beating somebody up in a bar and, you know, put them in a coma. Like, I saw the writing on the wall, and I saw where I was at. And at this point, I had two kids, and I was like, this is not gonna. It's not gonna end well if I keep on this path. So I made the conscious decision to start looking into stuff. I went to a few programs. Few For PTSD and stuff. I went to Chad Robichau. We went to his Mighty Oaks Foundation. That was huge for me. That was a big thing. Awesome. But I was on my. My path to, like, get better. But it wasn't the same at home. Like, at the time, I was into some other stuff and not being there to support me, I guess. Best way to say it. So it was a struggle. Like, I was fighting. Fighting my own demons and then fighting stuff at home, trying to keep our marriage alive, trying to, you know, trying to make myself better so I could be a better dad and a husband and all that stuff. And I wasn't getting the same, you know, on the other end. So went through a little bit more. I think, finally, that's about time. The reunion kicked off. So we had.

[Jocko Willink]

What sparked the idea, because that was your idea, the reunion?

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, me and one other soldier. But he kind of bailed on me for a couple of months, but I'll probably hear this more. So we had one of our soldiers ended up taking his own life for reasons, whatever.

[Jocko Willink]

Is this before the reunion or after?

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, this is what caused the reunion.

[Jocko Willink]

Okay, so this is what caused it.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah. This is like our nine years after Ramadi, probably. And we were just talking, you know, I just bullshit with some guys every now and then through text message, FaceTime, whatever, and, like, nobody see each other in a long time. You know, guys are falling apart. They're drifting away, you know, and are.

[Jocko Willink]

You looking at the whole kind of where everyone's at?

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

And saying, like, bro, we need to get together.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, that's exactly what it was.

[Jocko Willink]

Got it.

[Ryan Jackson]

That's when Facebook let you do stuff like that. So I was like, we need a reunion. Because we were coming up on. It was 2016. Well, it's still 15 at the time, but coming up on 10 years, like, well, let's have a reunion. So we got the idea, and I just started plugging away. Had no idea what I was doing, but just started outsourcing stuff. One, I just put a census out, see who's interested. Everybody was like, yes, yes, yes. Let's meet Up. Let's get together. I started. I got a friend from back home that has a laser engraving shop. So we killed some merch, some cool logos and stuff, started selling that. People were getting excited about that. We had like GoFundMe account, started getting some money. We got money from private people. Cindy Brown, a lot of people, like, helped us out. It started coming together. We did it in Helen, Georgia, right outside of my hometown. And I think we had about 40, 50 dudes show up.

[Jocko Willink]

Nice.

[Ryan Jackson]

And. Which is a pretty big deal at the time because people come from all over the country.

[Jocko Willink]

Is that like a third? How many people were in the company total? 150, 200.

[Ryan Jackson]

120.

[Jocko Willink]

120.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah. But, you know, based after everything else, like losses and stuff like that, it was a decent turnout. Everything was paid for. We had money to like pay for dudes. I actually had money that set aside for bail funds. Like.

[Jocko Willink]

That'S some NCO planning right there, boy.

[Ryan Jackson]

We took over all of Helen, Georgia, and we had a great time. But to me, like, reconnected with my guys, like, that was therapy. I didn't realize, but I was like, that was therapy. And a lot of guys felt the same way when we got done. But at the reunion, one of my soldiers showed up that on Facebook, he's got all the signs and symptoms of, you know, what I had, but a lot worse. He showed up to the reunion and he had a service dog. And he was a different person. Like, he was not the same person. He wasn't the guy that was, you know, borderline suicidal or anything like that. I was like, what the. He was like, it's a dog, man. I was like, what? And he told me about canines for warriors. And I was like, immediately came on from there and applied, did the application.

[Jocko Willink]

Do you have dogs growing up?

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, I've always had a dog. I mean, did you have a dog.

[Jocko Willink]

In at the time, like a non service dog?

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, I had a shepherd, German shepherd. I even had dogs in Ramadi. You know, we'd have puppies that we'd find and they would follow us out on patrols. So I've always had a dog in my life.

[Jocko Willink]

So what's the difference between you? So you had a dog. So when you went to the reunion, you already had a dog?

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

But it wasn't a service dog.

[Ryan Jackson]

No, it was just really smart German shepherd.

[Jocko Willink]

Just a smart. But that. And that German shepherd wasn't connected to the same way as this. This guy you saw with his service dog?

[Ryan Jackson]

No, no, it was just a Dog. He was, you know, he was my best friend. He was a good dog and did all kinds of cool stuff, but it was just a dog. I didn't look at it that way. And then I saw him with his dog, and I was like, you can do that. You can take him everywhere. Like, you. You can take him to grocery store, you can take him to Walmart, like, everywhere. Yeah, man. And, you know, the way he was trained was just 100 professional. And they. I did the application process for K9's this is before COVID Like, this is right when I put my application in which. Perfect luck. The application process. Super long pretty.

[Jocko Willink]

It is. As I was hearing about that, I was looking at the website yesterday, too, for the. For the canons for Warriors. So they're trying to figure out kind of like your personality through that application so they can figure out what kind of dog you need.

[Ryan Jackson]

That's exactly what they do. They. They match your dog to you before you even get there.

[Jocko Willink]

Because it's not like when a lot of people. When I think of a service dog because I was in the service, but I think of a working dog, right? I think of a German shepherd or a male. Like, that's all I think.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

And so I think that's just what, like, they're going to give you that dog. But then when I looked at the canine for warriors website, they give people all kinds of different. Like, there's no. There are every different type of dog from freaking poodle to the pitbull, like, and everything in between, buddy.

[Ryan Jackson]

When I got a poodle. Yeah, make fun about that. But I don't even know if they knew I was a gunsmith and he was named Caliber before I even got him. And I was like this, obviously, fate, but backing up the application process. So I had to wait about 14, 15 months. And it's during COVID too. So the class sizes went, you know, from 12 to, like, four. So I was at that point, I started getting a little discouraged. I was like, well, this ain't gonna work. And I've tried everything. I went back to Mighty Oaks again. I was like, that worked for me. So that's another thing I want to touch on Mighty Oaks. Are you familiar with the program? All right, so it's. It's.

[Jocko Willink]

It's more actually one of my buddies. Well, not only Chad, who I'm friends with Chad, and he's been on this podcast, I think twice at this point, but another guy that runs at Lou Rivera, he was a sealed teammate of mine from SEAL Team three. Great dude.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

Supposed to have him on the podcast at some point, but. Yeah, so I'm. I'm very familiar with it. I've been briefed about it. I've looked at all the literature. I've talked to Chad a bunch about it, and. And I've actually. They're kind of like my emergency button when. When I have a. When I have one of my friends or one of my teammates or a veteran that reaches out, that's really in a bad way. Those are the guys I call.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, it's geared more towards guys in our line of work, not just like, you know, I was on a. No, no, discredit to them, but it's more to, like, direct action kind of guys that actually, you need it. So when I went there for the first time, seeing dudes, like, one of my mentors was a pj, and this dude was telling me crazy stories, and I'm like, if you can get help, there's no excuse for me not getting help. You know, seeing dudes like, you know, SEALs and PJs and SF guys, like, there to get help like, that, maybe you do need to, like, reach out and get some help. So that was a motivating factor for me. So, like, when the canines thing.

[Jocko Willink]

And real quick, the symptoms like, look, you can't hold a job. I just want to make sure that when people hear this, they go, oh, I think they might be talking about me, but, like, you're having trouble holding a job, you're taking pills, you're drinking, short temper. Like, what are the signs and symptoms? Forgetting stuff. What other signs and symptoms are there that people need to go, oh, this could be me. I. I might need some help right now.

[Ryan Jackson]

No connection with civilians. Like, it wasn't that I wasn't good at any kind of job. It was just that I can't connect with anybody, you know, like, there's no camaraderie there. There's no brotherhood. There's no purpose. I guess it's kind of hard to reassimilate into society and people, oh, you're a veteran, and it's just one big lump. There's no, like, they don't have a clue what you did. And I got a buddy of mine that, you know, highly decorated, you know, Ranger Sergeant Major, and he's got all the awards. And I was like, dude, when you go to public situation check out, they don't care. When you walk through Walmart, they don't. Nobody cares. Like, the only thing they see is the way you live your Life and the way you carry yourself and every, all your accolades while they're awesome in the military, they don't translate anything outside and nobody really. They don't understand. They don't appreciate that or understand it, I guess. But yeah, that's the, the disconnection between civilians, I guess. And then just everything piled up. Ruin relationships, you know.

[Jocko Willink]

So the first time you go to Mighty Oaks, you're. I cut, I cut you off. But you're talking about the first time going to my yolks. You see that there's like PJs and seals and people that you're like, oh, maybe I could use some help too, right?

[Ryan Jackson]

And definitely like looked up to people like that. Like, you know, if you can admit that you have an issue, then there's no excuse for me doing it. I mean, you've done 10 times the crazier stuff than I have and seen a lot of crazier stuff. So, you know, if you can admit that you have an issue, then there's no reason why I can't do it or anybody else can't do it. So that was kind of a kick in the nuts for me, I guess. And.

[Jocko Willink]

And then you ended up going back to Mighty Oaks again.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

And then how was it the second time through?

[Ryan Jackson]

It was. It wasn't as impactful the first time. I just felt like I needed some accountability for myself, you know, I felt like it was, I was slipping, getting, you know, stuff getting worse. I never had any legal problems, never had a dui, never hit my wife, never hit my kids or anything like that. But I could just see the writing on the wall. Like I'm drinking a lot, you know, smoking a lot, so take the pills, still can't hold a job, all that stuff. And like, it's not going to end well. Like something catastrophic is going to happen and it's going to be bad and I can't afford my family to go through something like that and all. Ultimately it would be my responsibility or it'd be my fault, you know, So I had to hold myself accountable. You know, Money Oaks is faith based program, which in the beginning they didn't really lead onto that, but now it's geared more towards that. So, you know, I encourage my ex wife and go to church and do this stuff and start a routine. The structure, you know, like we used to have that, that's another thing, not having the structure in your life and getting out. I mean, first thing I did was not shave. Like I got two kids that have never seen me Without a beard, just, you know, having that. That freedom where you. I can just do what I want now. Can't tell me what to do. But that also is a problem too, because if you don't have that kind of structure in life, that's how you get in trouble. So. Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

And then. So the application process, you're waiting for a dog. You don't get a dog. It's taking too much time during COVID.

[Ryan Jackson]

So it just keeps getting stretched out.

[Jocko Willink]

And that's when. So you go back to Mighty Oaks. Now you're done with Mighty Oaks.

[Ryan Jackson]

And I was on a standby list because I was retired at the time and I wasn't working anymore. So I was the guy that if there was a spot open at the last minute, they could call. And damn, they did. April of 2020, they called me and they're like, we got a spot open, graduating class in May. And I was like, I got it.

[Jocko Willink]

How long is the class?

[Ryan Jackson]

It's three weeks.

[Jocko Willink]

Okay.

[Ryan Jackson]

And it's. You live there and the class is for you to learn how to use the dog. Because the dog is already trained. The $40,000 I think is what they spend to train these dogs. And like you said, as far as matching the personality of the dog, they did that to the T. I mean, I can't tell you. It's crazy the way Caliber is like me. We do the same thing. And he adapts my schedule and he is amazing. But so end up going like two weeks before. I would go to Walmart and shop at 3 o' clock in the morning because I didn't want to be around people. You know, I just. I didn't. Or I didn't leave my house. I just didn't want to go out. I don't want to have to deal with that. Really reclusive. Didn't. Didn't I really have many friends? All my friends were in the military. They're either other side of the country or still active duty. So I didn't interact with anybody. Then I was like, I'm gonna have a dog bring even more attention to me. That's what I don't want. So I almost backed out. Like, I was like. But then I was like, I need this. This is. I wouldn't say it's a last shot, but it's like you went through this much effort for application process and waiting all this time, like, just do it. And I went there and dude, when I tell you it's a family, like, they welcome you. Like a family 1. The facility is amazing. 2. They have, like, house moms, like, people from the community that volunteer cook dinner. Like, somebody from the community drops off a meal every single night. The living conditions are awesome. And it was during COVID so we had, like, our own apartment to ourselves, which kind of funny story about Caliber and sleeping on our bed together. But just the way they take you in, like, they had changed up the process a little bit. So we got there early Friday morning. We did all the paperwork. Whatever paper was left seemed like it never ended. But the next day, we wake up, we get our dogs. It's dog day, which is a huge thing. And from that moment on, we haven't been separated. And that was May 2020. But, like, the. The anxiety building up to that. Like, they keep you all separated, and one guy will go out of the kennel and get his dog and walk back, and I'm like, damn, that's a cool dog. And one guy walked back with a poodle and be like, no, I don't want a poodle.

[Jocko Willink]

But.

[Ryan Jackson]

So I remember they walked me back. I was super nervous. I'm nervous to get a dog. I don't understand that. But walked back there, and I saw him, and his favorite toy is a chicken, which we still have to this day. And he immediately ran up to me and sat down and just floppy ears and golden brown eyes and just instant connection. And they were like, his name's Caliber. And I was like, what? Like, did y' all change it or something? His name's Caliber. We been named that for two years already. All our dogs are rescues, too. So he was a rescue. He was in doggy jail for a while when he was first born. And then you just go through the training and learn how to use your dog and learn the rules, and, you know, what, you can do, what people can't do to you and stuff like that. And just what's.

[Jocko Willink]

What's some of the things that you really rely on Caliber for?

[Ryan Jackson]

Oh, so he. For one, he can identify my anxiety before I can identify it. He does this thing, which, ironically, hadn't done it this time. The whole. Because I thought I was gonna be nervous coming in here, but I'm not really nervous. But if we're, like, in a waiting room somewhere and I'm going to an appointment or I'm getting stressed out, he'll come and he'll jump in my lap, and he'll just, like, make me focus my attention on him. So it distracts me from, you know what? I was anxious about one thing, which he wasn't trained to do, but I had a stroke like, four or five years ago. I was sitting in the living room, and he came up to me and, like, a different way, approached me and jumped in my lap and started, like, pawing on my chest. And next thing I know, like, I'm starting to get paralyzed and left side of my face and stuff. He legit saved my life because I was able to, you know, mumbling to my son to call on one and stuff. But he, dude, he. He's. He's always there. Like, he doesn't judge me too much. He spoiled. So if he doesn't get, you know, everything he needs, but he's just always there for me, distracts, you know, from anxiety. One of the biggest. The biggest rewards for having him is interact with people. Like, I interact with people now. Like, we go out on almost a daily basis. If I don't go out, he'll start getting, like, kind of antsy like that. Go somewhere, even if we just go to the gas station, whatever. But being able to interact with people. People. I remember the first time we were walking through Walmart, and it was like an autistic kid that was having, like, an issue, and he was looking at the dog, and mom was like, can't pet the dog. He's working dogs. I was like, he can pay. You can pet him. And I let him pet Caliber. And that kid just immediately calmed down. I was like, jesus. Like, that's why he's here. And then talking to other veterans, like, I can't tell you how many times other veterans would come up to me and be like, dude, how'd you get your dog? And that's an opportunity to, like, tell them, like, if you need help, dude, like, that's why they're there. And just. I've pointed a lot of people that direction. Hopefully it helped and worked out. Probably never see him again. But the fact that, like, I'm okay with, like, talking to other dudes about it and being like, yeah, I had problems too. Like, I went through stuff, and this didn't cure me, didn't fix it. But this is, like, the best thing that's ever happened. I've been through a lot of programs for stuff like that, and this is by far the most beneficial one.

[Jocko Willink]

When they train the dogs, like, so it can go in and out of buildings, go on elevators, escalators, in cars. Like, what are the things that make this. That make these dogs sort of, like, adaptable to so many different environments?

[Ryan Jackson]

Just the skill from their trainers, like, the. I think it's like a year and a half that they train these dogs. I'll be wrong.

[Jocko Willink]

So they do, do they do like straight obedience too?

[Ryan Jackson]

Oh, it's more than obedience. Like now canine's program is advanced so much where they actually have like airplane seats that you can like, you practice going to the airport, you practice going through checkpoint security. You practice like everything. I mean they, they're always changing, always adapting and. Yeah, there's nowhere he can't take them. Well, I haven't legally like can't take him back to the kitchen or restaurant, but I've had. My middle son had to have an emergency appendectomy a couple of months back and Caliber immediately knew and climbed up in bed with him. It was comforting. My middle son, you know, because he was scared. He was about to have surgery. He's done that for my wife when she's having an anxious moment. Like he just picks up on it and he comforts people in a way that I guess I don't know if they didn't see coming or whatever, but he's there. Like, I don't know how, I don't know how to explain it. It's kind of hard, but.

[Jocko Willink]

No, that's awesome. And so it's obviously had a positive impact on you. I mean, cuz you're married again now, right?

[Ryan Jackson]

Yep.

[Jocko Willink]

How long you been married for?

[Ryan Jackson]

It'll be one month tomorrow.

[Jocko Willink]

Oh, okay.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

Good job. Caliber. Got it done. And you're an ambassador right now for canines for warriors, right?

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

And so how big is canines for warriors? How many dogs are they doing a year?

[Ryan Jackson]

Oh, just crossed a thousand dogs overall for the whole program. I want to say like six months ago. I think they're up to like 1200 now. They have more that they have, I think have three campuses now. They have.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah, I saw the campuses on the website. They're like really nice.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah. They also have the Mega kennel, which is the largest kennel in the world, I think. Don't quote me on, but I'm pretty.

[Jocko Willink]

Sure it is the largest kennel in the world.

[Ryan Jackson]

So they, they rescue dogs, you know, from kill shelters. That's their main thing. They rescue dogs, you know, their thing is a new leash on life. So they're saving a dog and a veteran. That's how he was, you know, he was in Doggy Joe for a while. He got saved by canines and the rest is history.

[Jocko Willink]

And, and that's. I think it's. Let me just check my notes here because I've got it Written down on the Canine for warriors. Canine for warriors.org is what it is. Yeah. Canineforwarriors.org another big thing that helped you, obviously, because it reconnected you with these, with your. With your brothers from Dealer is this reunion. And, and that's how you and I got reconnected because we got this massive reunion coming. 1, 1 A.D. ramati reunion January 16th and 17th, 2, 2026.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, so.

[Jocko Willink]

So there's a Facebook site. There's a website. If you Google. I've googled it. If you Google ready first reunion, you. You'll find it. And we've got. Already, I want to say, like, there's. I want to say there's like almost a thousand people that have already responded that, that are planning to come.

[Ryan Jackson]

That's awesome.

[Jocko Willink]

I mean, this is out of a brigade of 5,600 people. I mean, it's a big brigade, but that's a huge amount of people to come 20 years later.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

So it's going to be a really awesome event to get to and looking forward to seeing a bunch of people there and, and hopefully we'll be more well behaved than you guys were. And we don't need to set aside funds for bail money, although for contingency purposes. Purposes we may have to do that.

[Ryan Jackson]

Well, it's on Fort Bliss, so hopefully they'll just, you know, true. Keep us, keep us there. But one thing we tried to work in. I don't know how it's going to work out now, but I wanted to have some of our own soldiers and sailors and airmen and Marines and stuff. If anybody needed the help to go through canines, my goal was to have them go through canines and graduate and have a dog presented at the reunion. But the, the few that we had for medical reasons or personal reasons, whatever, didn't work out, but I think can still be there for as far as advocacy, just to let other people know that it's a program that's out there. It's a program that I didn't know existed.

[Jocko Willink]

Well, if somebody's hearing this right now too, like, there's time, right?

[Ryan Jackson]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

So if somebody's hearing this right now, reach out and we'll get you connected and make something happen. Hopefully.

[Ryan Jackson]

Definitely.

[Jocko Willink]

And that. That'd be epic. So that's it, man. You got a dog, you got a wife?

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

Pretty good scores in that order.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

She said, Tiffany sitting over in the corner, give me, give me, give me looks that. But just like a huge progress in your life at this Juncture, you know, going through some of the worst combat, losing so many guys, and now here you are, kind of reassembled, getting it done. Does that get us up to speed then?

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, I think so.

[Jocko Willink]

Right on, right on. And so for people to find canines, for warriors. I know you're not really big on the social media a thing, but for canine. For warriors, we got canines, it's K, the letter K, then 9, and then an S. And then for warriors dot org. That's where it's at. And then it's on YouTube, on Instagram, and on Twitter. X. All those, the same handle, same call sign at same thing. K9s for warriors. K9s for warriors. And that's where people can find this program again, trying to make something happen for the reunion. Maybe do a dog presentation there. That'd be freaking epic. Very cool. But I'm sure we'll see you and Caliber at the reunion. If anyone wants to come and meet Caliber. Well, Caliber's getting fired up. She's like. Hears me talking over here. He. He hears me talking, so I gotta.

[Ryan Jackson]

Also Mighty Oaks, too. Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

Mighty Oaks.

[Ryan Jackson]

Biggest thing is that, you know, if there's somebody out there that needs help, it's. It's not. You swallow your pride and admit it and go get it.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah.

[Ryan Jackson]

Before something bad happens. I guess. Like, don't. I think suicide is kind of a selfish thing to do or get yourself in trouble legally, you know, like, there's help out there. There's plenty of places. Try them. Try one. Don't work. Try something else. Or go to the gym. Do some MMA or something.

[Jocko Willink]

Awesome stuff, brother. Echo, any questions?

[Echo Charles]

Oh, yeah, real quick. As far as, like, after the. The process of matching you guys up, you said you have two weeks.

[Jocko Willink]

Three.

[Ryan Jackson]

Three weeks.

[Echo Charles]

Three weeks to get to know each other. You said get trained up on, like, how to. What would you call it? Use or.

[Ryan Jackson]

Or. Yeah, pretty much how to interact. Use your dog. Like, they know so many commands, so you have to. There's different commands for different things. You know, I can say, say side. And he knows to come to my side and sit down. I can. I can go to the bathroom and go to a urinal and say, look, and he'll turn around and look behind you. I mean, it's. He's literally covering your six. So you have to. You have to learn how to. To integrate all the commands. He's already been taught how to. When to use them. I mean, they actually. They can brace. Like, if you got guys with mobility issues, you can say Brace and you can put your hands on his back and lift yourself up. I mean, they, there's commands for getting underneath the seat or riding on public transportation or at a restaurant and he sits underneath the table. So you have to. They teach you how to use the dog.

[Echo Charles]

Yeah. Brad, that's so legit too, because you don't think about that kind of stuff. You know, where it's like, bro, this is like a straight. Of course, yes. Companionship, all that. But it's like this is kind of like a utility, like.

[Ryan Jackson]

Absolutely.

[Echo Charles]

Friend scenario.

[Ryan Jackson]

Like your little partner scooter. Like you have to learn how to use it.

[Echo Charles]

Yeah. So legit. You said something real quick too. You said you get to know what people can't do to you. Or like that, like. Oh, you, you just said. I mean, that was your words or whatever.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Echo Charles]

So you kind of, what, you get trained together and you kind of. What does that mean?

[Ryan Jackson]

You learn, like the ADA laws, like where you can take them. So like, you know, I've had a couple instances, nothing big. Going to a restaurant and either get sitted in the back of the restaurant away from everybody or treated differently. Like, hotels can't charge you for a pet fee because it's not a pet, a service animal. So there, there's a whole class. They teach you on that. On like the laws and stuff. Americans with Disabilities Act. Like it's a whole thing.

[Echo Charles]

Yeah.

[Ryan Jackson]

And so they just teach you how to identify that stuff. And, you know, you can't get discriminated against. He can go anywhere. I got an Uber on the way here and the guy kind of gave me some looks and I was like, well, we've had this issue before with Uber and it don't work out.

[Echo Charles]

How, how often. Like that, for example, how often do you run into that?

[Ryan Jackson]

I've had him for six years and probably five times maybe. But at the same time, Cadence for warriors, they have a team of people. That's their job. I, I have a, they have a. What's called a duty phone. It's like a CQ or whatever. If you have that, it's a 24 hour number. You call if you have an issue, whatever, your dog's sick or you can't get into a restaurant or somebody discriminated against, you, you call them and they have a way to fix it. You know, they have a lot of connection, they have a lot of pool. It's not something you're not going to make a million dollars and sue, you know, McDonald's, because they won't let you come in, they. It's more about educating everybody else and being like, you know, look, he's. It's like a wheelchair. Like, you know, you can't discriminate. You know, the VA recognizes it now as, you know, actual therapy, so they just teach you how to navigate, stuff like that. And they're. They're literally always there when I say it's a family. I mean, they check up on you every month. They call you every month, make sure you and your dog are okay. I had a. The one I was talking about earlier that, you know, he was going through some financial times and worried about his dog. They sent him, like, a couple bags of dog food. I mean, they're not going to let you fail. Yeah. I think their success rate's probably up there with Mighty Oaks, as far as, you know, 99.5%. I don't think they've ever had a suicide or anything like that. After another thing, you know, when I went to canines, before I went there, I was on 20 medications.

[Jocko Willink]

Damn.

[Ryan Jackson]

You know, SSRR stuff that I don't. Haven't taken since. Completely off, like, you know, Motrin and blood pressure medicine and stuff like that. I'm off all that stuff in the last six years, and I really feel like that's because of him. And canine swords.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah. Plus, you gotta, like, go out for walks. Yeah.

[Ryan Jackson]

You know what I mean? That's a total too.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah. I'll tell you what. We. My. My. My dog died at Christmas. And, you know, my wife was. My wife was heartbroken. I was heartbroken, too, but my wife was like, you know, immediately after, like, I don't want to get another dog. Like, I. I can't go through this again. And then, like, a few days later, I came home and, like, my dog wasn't there. The house is totally quiet. And I just said, darling, we need another dog. She says, yes, we do. And so we. We got, you know, new dog, but. And just awesome, you know, like, you got. You got to take that thing for a walk. You got to throw at that ball. You got to just. You got to get engaged. He doesn't care. Like, he's just, like, wanting to have a good time and wants that belly rub and the whole nine yards and so those little things. And. And this is just from a dog. Yeah, my dog, he's an awesome dog, but he's a dog. He doesn't. He doesn't know the brace command. Not yet to go home and learn.

[Ryan Jackson]

It now, but, you know, it's accountability for me. Too. Like, one, representing canines for warriors. And two, I have him, like, highly trained service dog. Like, I have to. I have to get up. I might not want to, but, like, this morning in the hotel, like, I didn't want to get up, but he did. So we're getting up because I'm not cleaning anything up and not going to make him suffer because I'm too lazy to get up. So we got up and we. We walked. And then as soon as we start, you know, out the elevator door and outside, start walking, you know, fresh air, and you're walking, you start feeling better, and you're like, it's because of the dog.

[Jocko Willink]

Let's get better already. Awesome. Echo, you got any more questions?

[Echo Charles]

Good to meet you, sir.

[Ryan Jackson]

Man. You too.

[Jocko Willink]

Ryan, any closing thoughts, bro?

[Ryan Jackson]

No. Just want to emphasize on veteran out there that needs help. Just don't be afraid to ask. And there's plenty of help out there.

[Jocko Willink]

So awesome stuff, man. Well, thank you for joining us tonight. Really appreciate it. But more important, you know, thanks for what you and your boys did from team dealer in Ramadi. I mean, it was relentless, day after day, night after night, and you guys were always there. You guys never faltered. And we will be eternally grateful for your service and the sacrifice of your boys.

[Ryan Jackson]

Appreciate it.

[Jocko Willink]

Thanks, brother.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah, man.

[Jocko Willink]

And with that, Ryan Jackson has left the building. Pretty awesome to hear his story and just what he's been through, what he done. And I'm telling you, get. Get the book Romati Declassified by Colonel Anthony Dean. We covered on the podcast, but we only covered a little bit of that book on the podcast. And the fighting was so hard, the losses were so heavy. And to you know, as you heard from Ryan, he was right in the thick of it the whole time. Eight hours in the into meme and other areas. Eight hours there, eight hours on qrf, which is getting called all the way by. By. By the way, just to let you know. And then eight hours to prep for your next mission and eat and sleep. It's rough. So those are some real soldiers and some real heroes. So thanks to Ryan for coming on and just to see what Ryan went through there and then faced some struggles and then out on the other side, man, doing awesome. Making progress, or he has made so much progress. And it's a sign to me that we can all make progress, right? And look, maybe it's getting a dog. Maybe it is, man. I know my dog's good. Dog. You got a dog, too, right?

[Echo Charles]

I do.

[Jocko Willink]

Technically speaking, right? Because you didn't select your dog. Right. Correct. What kind of dog is it again?

[Echo Charles]

Yorkie.

[Jocko Willink]

Okay, we've been through this before.

[Echo Charles]

Yes, we have.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah. Do you. Does your dog like to get petted?

[Echo Charles]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

Do you like to pet the dog?

[Echo Charles]

I do now, to be honest with you. Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

But at one time, you did not.

[Echo Charles]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

How come?

[Echo Charles]

Oh, just wasn't into it, you know, whatever. Oh, it's.

[Jocko Willink]

Dude, you're gonna. Your ratings are gonna go down, bro.

[Echo Charles]

It's possible. But, you know, it put it this way. It wasn't my idea to get the dog. It was like yet another thing. And I'm like, all right. You know. Right. It was the classic tale.

[Jocko Willink]

Plus, here's something I'm gonna reveal about you right now.

[Ryan Jackson]

Okay.

[Jocko Willink]

That you play it off pretty well, but let's face it, you don't like things that jam up your. Your system. You know what I'm saying?

[Echo Charles]

I do know what you're saying.

[Jocko Willink]

Am I accurate?

[Echo Charles]

I'd say, yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

You don't like things that jam up the Echo Charles world.

[Echo Charles]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

Right. Because you're gonna do what you. You like to do. What Echo Charles likes to do.

[Echo Charles]

I'd say that's fair.

[Jocko Willink]

So if something's going to jam that up, technically speaking, it's not welcomed right away. Welcomed right away. Yeah. So the dog was gonna. Could. You know, you might have to feed this animal. You might have to take this animal. It might go to the bathroom in the house. There's all kinds of jamming up that could happen.

[Echo Charles]

Yes.

[Jocko Willink]

And that's where you were against in the beginning.

[Echo Charles]

Yes. The. You know, the classic.

[Jocko Willink]

Again, dude, you're gonna take heavies in this.

[Ryan Jackson]

I.

[Jocko Willink]

And that makes the whole world's gonna be against you.

[Echo Charles]

I understand.

[Jocko Willink]

Especially after you see what the. What. What caliber did for. For Ryan. You're over here just not wanted.

[Echo Charles]

Keep in mind that's different.

[Jocko Willink]

Okay.

[Echo Charles]

Well, you know the whole classic thing where it's like, oh, the whole family.

[Jocko Willink]

Rallies to get cancelled.

[Echo Charles]

It's possible. But the, you know, the family's like, hey, get. Oh, let's get a dog. And then the dad's like, oh, my God, like, who's going to end up having to take care of the dog? Right? It's like, so the dad's going to be against it. And then it was like, no. Then finally the dad's like, fine, I got to think outside my own selfish wants or whatever. Let's get the dog. And then the dad ends up having to train it, take care of it, and then eventually likes the dog better than everyone else does. You see, I. I feel that that's. That was the arc.

[Jocko Willink]

What's your dog's name?

[Echo Charles]

Maya.

[Jocko Willink]

Maya.

[Echo Charles]

Maya. Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

Maya. All right, Maya. All right. Well, it could be getting a dog.

[Echo Charles]

Yep.

[Jocko Willink]

That gets you moving in the right direction.

[Echo Charles]

Yeah. So it. And here was. This is why, like, I asked the questions I did because, you know, I've seen. Sir, obviously we've seen many service dogs before, but beyond seeing them and kind of little things you hear about them, you don't really know the depth of what really a service dog does and is for, you know, so, yeah, I know. I have my dog. We have our dogs, and we know what they can do. So, you know, as far as, like, the good scenarios where it's like, yes, it's like a little companionship, the free. You know, like that. And so. But you don't really know. But when you think about it and get more details, it's kind of like, oh, sure, they're all that. The companion, like that whole part of it. But they're trained in that whole direction.

[Jocko Willink]

That's an important part because, you know, talking about, like, with Mike Ritland, who literally trains dogs, but you know, how dogs, they can instant. They know what your mood is.

[Ryan Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

Or they know if you're nervous about something, they know it. Like, even if a person makes you nervous, they're getting, like, aggressive towards. Or they'll get alerted to your nervousness about someone or something. And so what they do, you know, apparently talking to Ryan, it's like they take the dogs and they take those instincts and they hone them and they train them. It's like, oh, you're sad. Here's what I should do as a dog to get you squared away.

[Echo Charles]

Yeah. Because they already can sense it to begin with. And that part is true too, where. And Mike Ridley's the one who turned me on to this whole idea where it's like, bro, that makes so much sense. Where he's like, you know, if I. If I know. Known you for a little bit, I'm paraphrasing. But if I've known you for a little bit and. Or if I didn't know you at all, and I see and I say like, hi. And then the way you say hi back to me, I already know as a. Just another human being, like, that you're kind of nervous when you said hi or that you're really relaxed when you said hi. Like, I kind of know that. I can pick up on that. These dogs can pick up on that even more. So when you kind of consider that stuff, it's like, oh, man. And then you pay attention to your own dog. You're like, oh, bro, this dog can pick up on all that stuff. Because think about it. They're not distracted by your words or all this or the stress of this or stress of. They're not distracted by that. They're just kind of reading you from moment to moment to moment to moment. So, like, all these patterns are emerging in that way. So they're so in touch with it. And I noticed that, too, about my little silly dog. It's like she just runs around, like. You know, like, I think she's strange for sure, but she's not one of these. But sometimes I am surprised. I'm like, bro, this dog's kind of psychic in that small way. Seems like it.

[Jocko Willink]

How do you like my new dog?

[Echo Charles]

I like, compared to Odin, I. I don't think I've been around them long enough to see the difference. I think they're. I was gonna make a joke. When you're like, then we got another dog. I say, yeah, same dog. He just looks slightly different. Different color.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah, that's it.

[Echo Charles]

But, yeah, same dog. Mellow, big German chick.

[Jocko Willink]

Check. All right with that. If. Speaking of making progress, another good things you could. There's more good things you can do to make progress. Hey, a nod to Echo Charles. Get some rest.

[Echo Charles]

Yeah. Hell, yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

It's part of the whole thing.

[Echo Charles]

Yes, sir, it is.

[Jocko Willink]

You don't want to get jammed up.

[Echo Charles]

Nope.

[Jocko Willink]

So get some good rest. Workout, train, jiu jitsu, run, sprint, and make sure you're getting some clean fuel.

[Echo Charles]

Yep.

[Ryan Jackson]

It's true.

[Echo Charles]

Really? That's the three things. Yeah, well, I know the three Oil one, because I told you that many, many times. What you do for exercise, what you do for recovery, which is rest, what you do for nutrition.

[Jocko Willink]

Well, we need fuel. Check out Jocko fuel. Check out jockofuel.com. go to jockofuel.com. a couple good things. Authenticity. Because there's. I know it sounds crazy, but there's fake Jocko fuel. Just like, there's fake Jocko T shirts, there's fake Jocko books. Like, all those things are real. But you would think, like, look, you understand how to make a book, a fake Jocko book. You just take the words and, you know, print them on a photocopy. Right. To make a T shirt. Oh, we don't even. We just need a silk screen print and a design, and we put Jocko on it and sell it on Amazon. But you can actually get fake Jocko Fuel, which to me is crazy. And again, we're cracking down on it. We're on it. We're law enforcement involved. Like, it's crazy that this stuff is going on, but it goes on. But if you go to jockey fuel.com, there's no. That's not happening. Also, there's like, really good deals we put out on jockey fuel.com and we got free shipping, over 99 bucks, by the way. Our shipping used to take like a while to get stuff shipped, but we're out of that phase now. Ships either that day or the morning, the next morning. So it's squared away. And then we got a whole like loyalty pro, which, you know, when, when my team started talking about loyalty programs, I quite frankly am not a big like loyalty type shopper. Shop. Yeah, I don't even. I like, I fly all over the place. People like, what airline are you? And I'm like, I'm all airlines. Like, I'm all of. And I'm like, I don't even know what my status is. The various airlines.

[Echo Charles]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

You know, I'm not like, oh, excuse me, Emerald member coming through. But. So I don't know that much about it. But when they told me like, hey, you got people that are using the product all the time [e-mail], we should take care of them, I'm like, oh, well, 100%. So we got a bunch of things there where, you know, you can get earned points, you get money off, you get free gifts again, you get like new products that come out, you get first access to. There's a bunch of cool things there. And like I said, you got the subscriptions which, like between 10 and 20 off for those when you subscribe and you have to worry about not ordering it or it not being in stock. That's another thing. At Jockerfield Documents, everything's in stock for the most part. 98 of the time, maybe 97 of the time, we got it. So there you go. Check out jockerfield.com Also, if you don't get it there, you can get it at Walmart. I heard Ryan mention Walmart. He went to Walmart a lot today. He was like, oh, you're going to Walmart. Walmart, Walmart. So we know Ryan Jackson said, well, Ryan, you can get jogger fuel, Walmart, also Wawa, Vitamin Shop, gnc, Military commissaries, aps, Hanford Dash Doors, Wakefern, shoprite, HEB down in Texas, Meijer out in the Midwest. Wegmans on the east coast, primarily Harris Teeter, Publix. It's another thing you heard Ryan mention today. He's like, you're going into Publix. We're going to Publix. Going in publics and get Jocko fuel. Check that out. Also Lifetime Fitness shields and small gyms. And we got a whole team that's out getting the stuff into small gyms and chiropractors offices and hair cutting barbers.

[Echo Charles]

Hair cutting barbers.

[Jocko Willink]

The team is out there because people want to have Jocko fuel. So if you're in one of those situations, you got a little shop or something, email JF [e-mail] Take care of your customer and plus make a little extra money. That's what we're doing. Also Origin USA.com you can get jeans, you can get boots, you can get hats, belts, T shirts, hoodies, Jiu jitsu, geese, jujitsu, rash guards, GI or no gi. I don't know. Look, sometimes people are gi, sometimes they're no gi, sometimes they transition, they go back, sometimes they're like they're doing both. I don't know. I don't know what you're doing. But we got you covered. Like literally covered. Because we got rash cards or geese got belts. Custom belts. No, is what we're calling them.

[Echo Charles]

Jiu Jitsu belts and regular belts, by the way. Oh, that's right at the origin.

[Ryan Jackson]

It's true.

[Jocko Willink]

And by the way, all this stuff is 100% made in America, which is a big deal because. And we've been making it in America. We didn't just jump on the Made in America train like seven months ago or jump on the Made America train when they started putting tariffs and penalizing people for supporting communism. You're getting penalized for supporting Communism. Okay, cool. We're not supporting communism over here. So go to originusa.com and get some stuff that's made in America. Hunt gear, boots, whatever you need. Training gear. I was just skiing. I was just wearing Origin all day. So good to go. So that's what we're doing. Origin USA.com Go get some.

[Echo Charles]

Speaking of having you covered, if you want to represent discipline equals freedom, we got your shirts and hoodies, hats on there, got socks on there. I know I keep saying that, but it's true. Also, speaking of subscription scenario, new design every month. It's called the Shirt Locker. Subscribe.

[Jocko Willink]

You're wearing that one right now. That's some kind of. I didn't get.

[Echo Charles]

You didn't get.

[Jocko Willink]

Well, I Don't understand. Like Ryan understood it immediately.

[Echo Charles]

Yes.

[Jocko Willink]

What do you say was. What is it?

[Echo Charles]

It's a. Well, it's a kind of a. Inspired by the old Nintendo Entertainment system game cartridge of the game Contra.

[Jocko Willink]

Okay.

[Echo Charles]

Remember the game Contra?

[Jocko Willink]

Because I remember you telling me about the super spreader or something.

[Echo Charles]

Hell yeah. So no, Super Contra has the spreader just like regular contrast. Any spreader is one of the weapons you can get. You know, these two Rambo type guys. Anyway, it's a game for those who know. They know. So, yes, if you look at the video game cartridge from the old Nintendo Entertainment System, this was like the graphics, but instead of Contra.

[Jocko Willink]

He's killing donuts.

[Echo Charles]

Yeah, it's you killing donuts. Hell yeah.

[Jocko Willink]

I like it.

[Echo Charles]

So that's one. That was one of the designs, I think maybe two a year, two years ago, something like that. Anyway, so, yeah, they're different kind of designs, all representing. This one equals freedom in some capacity. But they're just a little bit kind of outside the box type stuff. Anyway, people seem to like it. Yes. Again, it's called the Short Locker and it's on Jocko store dot com.

[Jocko Willink]

Check that out. Also check out coloradocraft beef.com and primal beef.com. this is where you can get steak, you can get burgers, you can get jerky, you can get beef sticks. You can get beef tallow from Colorado Craft Beef. I've been cooking in the beef towel now like 100. Are you doing that too?

[Echo Charles]

Yes, sir, I am.

[Jocko Willink]

It's good to go. Yes, it is good to go. Now, I haven't. I'm not one of these people that's like putting it on my skin yet. But that's the thing. Yeah. For real.

[Echo Charles]

Yeah, I've done that. So oddly, I got. It wasn't from. Wait, Colorado Craft Beat doesn't give the skin. Do the skin one right.

[Jocko Willink]

You can put it on your skin.

[Echo Charles]

Oh, okay. Just the straight tallow.

[Jocko Willink]

Yeah, just beef tallow.

[Echo Charles]

So I heard about the beef. This is good for your skin or whatever. So I was like, all right. And so I got this one freaking. What was the company? It's somebody like, we know. Anyway, so I got it. It's like the small little thing, more expensive quality. Hell yeah. And I put it on. I was like, okay, cool. If that's what we're doing, that's what we're doing. Just gotta have faith kind of a thing. And bro, my dog just keeps, like chasing me around and licking me. I'm not joking either. And I never put it on after that. So just know, hey, I'm not saying it's bad for your skin. I'm not saying don't do it. I'm just saying, hey man, just, no, just, just know what you're getting into, that's all. If you're going to put it on.

[Jocko Willink]

Your skin, well, even if you're not going to put on your skin, you can cook with all day. GTG so check that out. PrimalBeef.com and Colorado Craft Beef.com also subscribe to the podcast. Also check out you Jocko Underground.com. those are coming out every week. We're answering questions. Check out our YouTube channels. Check out books. We got a few books for you. For the books I referred to today, number one, Rati declassified, which is from Colonel Anthony Dean. He was the battalion commander of the 135, a great guy and he wrote an incredible book. So detailed. And get that book if you can. Also I mentioned a book today called Love Nick, which is Notes, emails, recordings of David Nick Crombie. Real moving book and just shows you the kind of people that are out there, out there serving their country and have made the sacrifice that we can never repay. So thanks for that, Nick. And then of course I've written a bunch of books. Everything from Extreme Ownership Dichotomy, Leadership, Leadership Strategy and Tactics, Field Manual, and then I've written a bunch of kids books as well. Matter of fact, I sent the whole rack of kids books to Ryan a couple months ago and he was super stoked on him. Said the kids are, the kids are digging them. So Way of the warrior kid 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5. Also Mikey and the Dragons, bunch of books out there for you. Check those out. Also, Echelon Front, we have a leadership consultancy. We solve problems through leadership. If you have problems inside your organization, they are leadership problems and that means that leadership is the solution. So if you want to check that out or you need help, go to echelonfront.com for details. Also, we have an online training academy because leadership is skills. It's a skill that you must learn and in order to learn it, you must be taught. So that's why we have extremeownership.com it's an online leadership education academy. But no matter who you are, no matter what your position at work or at home, you're in a leadership position. So you want to learn how to lead and improve every aspect of your life. Go to extreme ownership.com and and if you want to help service members, active and retired, you want to help their families. You want to help Gold star families? Check out Mark Lee's mom, Mama Lee. Incredible organization. You know, we through that organization are able to help so many people and you know, things come up all the time. I know there was just a veteran in need that reached out and within hours we were able to help that individual financially. So AmericasMightyWarriors.org incredible organization. Thank you, Mama Lee, for what you do. Also, heroes and horses.org taking veterans up into nature to find their souls again. Micah fink, check out heroesandhorses.org also Jimmy May's got an organization beyondthebrotherhood.org helping seals get out of the military and establish themselves, reintegrate to the world. And then of course, you heard about it today, Canines for Warriors. You heard Ryan's story. It's an amazing organization helping out so many people. And if you want to connect with Canines for Warriors on the interwebs, it's k9s4warriors.org and then they have a YouTube, an Instagram, a Twitter X and a Facebook. And that is at K9s4 warriors. And if you want to check us out, you go to jocko.com you can also check us out on social media, Ocko Willink, and then at Echo Charles. And just be careful because when you're on there, there's going to be people that are going to try and destroy your life one millisecond at a time, one swipe at a time. Don't fall for it. Thanks once again to Ryan Jackson for joining us. Thanks to you and your brothers for everything you did for us in Ramadi, for the army and for America. Thank you, brother. And thanks to all our servicemen and women with a reverent salute tonight to team dealer Bravo Company, 26 Infantry. It was an honor to serve alongside you guys. Thank you for your service and your sacrifice. Also thanks to our police, law enforcement, firefighters, parents, paramedics, EMTs, dispatchers, correctional officers, border patrol, secret service, as well as all other first responders. Thank you for your service and sacrifice here at home to keep us safe and everyone else out there. Look, man, the path is hard, the life is hard and sometimes things don't go well and sometimes things get dark. And when that happens, remember the services and the sacrifices that have been made. Remember that there's people that gave their lives for our freedom. We owe it to them to go out there and live. That's all I got for tonight. Until next time, this is Echo and Jocko out.