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- [00:00]
Jocko Willink
This is Jocko, podcast number 499 with Echo Charles and me, Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo.
- [00:06]
Echo Charles
Good evening.
- [00:06]
Jocko Willink
So I see a lot of people freaking out about things on a kind of regular basis. People reacting, people overreacting, even in some cases, panicking based on what they hear, what they see, what they think, the way things are presented to them. And that's not good, by the way. In combat is. That's a disaster. In combat, that's a disaster. If you're freaking out when something happens, it's a disaster. But it's not just a disaster in combat. It will cause problems in business and it'll cause problems in your life too. One of the things that you have when you have a military radio and they don't have them anymore, they don't have a digital version of it, but have you ever heard of a squelch button before?
- [00:57]
Echo Charles
Yes, I have.
- [00:58]
Jocko Willink
Yeah. So squelch button. On the old radios that we used to have, there was a squelch knob, and you would turn that squelch knob to get rid of the white noise. Like, white noise is a, is a lower level signal that's coming through the air at all times. And you don't want to hear that white noise, don't want that in your ear. So you turn that squelch enough so that it blocks any of that lower level noise. You don't hear it anymore. But then when someone else on that same radio frequency keys up their radio, it breaks through and you can hear what their communication is. So that's what you do. You adjust it so that you can't hear the white noise, because the white noise doesn't mean anything. It's just noise. It's just causing distraction, it's breaking your concentration, and also it's drowning out the other important sounds. Because if you got white noise and then someone makes an actual radio call, you might not hear it because it didn't break squelch. It was already in there. It's just mixed in with everything else. So as a leader and as a person, you. You've got to figure out a way to, to do that same thing for the various inputs that you're getting from the world. And there's a lot of them. There's definitely a lot of them. You got, you got to figure out what matters and what doesn't matter, what's important and what's not important. And this is a skill that you, you kind of have to develop. This isn't something you're just naturally going to Be born with, you know, as a human being, you're going to. As an animal, you're going to, like, be paranoid and pay attention to everything.
- [02:36]
Echo Charles
Yeah.
- [02:38]
Jocko Willink
On the battlefield, there's a lot of things going on. There's. You're going to have some kind of problems, right? You're going to have enemy movement, you're gonna have friendly movement. You're gonna be getting reports over the radio. You're gonna get updates for the operation, you're gonna get enemy contacts, gonna happen somewhere. Timelines are gonna get shifted and changes. Intel's gonna come in while you're in the field. People are gonna be crossing phase lines at various moments. Execution checklist is gonna be getting executed. Adjacent units are gonna be sending up their reports. So there's gonna be a lot of things that are happening out there, a lot going on. And you have to learn to apply that. That squelch to things that. That aren't going to impact you. Now, it's important to say that you can't just ignore them. Right. This happens on a radio as well. If you turn up that squelch too much, nothing will break through it. So now I've just silenced everything. Oh, everything seems quiet. Yeah. Because no one's breaking scrolls. So you can't crank it up to where you can't hear anything else. That's like a form of target fixation. But you gotta turn it up and then you back it off until it breaks. Then you put it back and you go back and forth. But you have to. You can't pay attention to all those things that I just listed simultaneously with the same level of care about each. And one of those things. Enemy movement, friendly movement, reports, updates, enemy contact. You can't, because there might be an enemy contact that's five or six sectors away. Do you need to know about it? Do you think you need to know about it?
- [04:12]
Echo Charles
Feels like you do. But if it's far away, yeah, you.
- [04:14]
Jocko Willink
Kind of need to know, but you don't need to focus on it. Like, you might recognize that if I call the QRF right now, I might not get them very quickly because there's another. Another element in a contact a few sectors away. So that's just. You just have to, as I say, sometimes. Noted. Right. You gotta be paying attention. You gotta put it into the. You know, that's why you say roger. Right, Roger. I understand there's. There's an enemy contact with a friendly unit a few sectors away. It's not going to interfere with my operation at all unless I need QRF or unless I need casabac. So those are things just to keep in mind. So if I'm thinking I might have to call qrf, if I'm thinking I might need to call a Quick reaction Force, and I know that there's another element that's engaged, I might call it a little bit sooner than I would if I knew I had him on standby immediately. So those are the kind of things you got to pay attention to. But I'm not asking for more information. I'm like, well, what. How many enemy fighters are there and are there any casualties yet? And what maneuver elements are entering the field? Like, I'm not asking for amplifying information. I'm just taking it in and it's noted and it might increase, right? So I pay attention to it a little bit. But. But things might change. The enemy might start maneuvering in our direction, or there might be a helicopter now entering the zone, or what started off as, like small arms fire now has escalated into some kind of a complex coordinated attack. I need to know about that, because now I know if I call for qrf, they might not be coming because they're going to be over in this other sector dealing with that massive problem. So when you turn up the squelch, you can't turn up the squelch until it blocks everything out. And you still got to pay attention to these other things, but you can't let them distract you from what's actually happening. Now, this is. This is very. This is adjacent to the thought which we've talked about before, that the first report from the battlefield is always wrong. Now, that's an extreme statement, right? And usually this quote is attributed to Patton. The first report from the field is always wrong. I wouldn't say the first report is always wrong, but I would say the first report from the field is not going to be completely accurate, at a minimum. Now, why is it that a report from the field, the first one and the second one and the third one, why is it that you have to kind of pay attention to those and not commit 100% when you hear a report from the field? Well, the first of all, when you get a report from someone from the field that's coming from one person, it's one person that is seeing something happening. It's not corroborated with anybody else. It's wrapped up, by the way, with a bunch of fear, with a bunch of stress, with a bunch of anxiety, which means it's already amplified. And that person only has their perspective. So if it's just their perspective, it's inaccurate because there's a lot more things. So when you're getting mortared, when you're getting mortared, you're sitting getting mortared. I've been sitting, getting mortared before. And when you're sitting getting mortared, the whole world could be getting mortared. It might as well feel like you're. The whole world's getting mortar. And I haven't been in like a World War I, not even in the same realm as a World War I artillery bombardment. I'm talking taking some mortar rounds and by some, let's say two or three mortars at a, at a crack. But when those mortars are inbound and you know that they're coming your way, you might as well like, it feels like you can't, you can't accurately judge what the, what is happening in the world. All you know is we're getting mortar. So if I was to call you and your headquarters and I'm like, we're getting a mortar barrage right now. Well, what does that actually mean? Does that mean three mortars are going to hit in my vicinity and they're 60 millimeter mortars, which are not even anything comparison to a 120 millimeter mortar. Like there's totally different things. So. But when I'm calling you and telling you I'm getting more work and mortar right now, like, what's your reaction? Is your reaction okay, we need to send a casualty evacuation. Do we need to get aircraft overhead to try and identify the mortar position, these enemy mortar positions? Well, no, because the fact of the matter is we're only going to get three mortars and then they're going to be gone. And the people that shot the motors are already in a vehicle and they're driving away, so it doesn't really matter. So what we have to do as leaders, we got to, we gotta, we gotta take a wrap off. Have you heard that expression before?
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Echo Charles
Yeah, from you.
- [09:15]
Jocko Willink
Okay, you heard it from me. You think it's a civilian expression at all? Take a wrap off? I think it might be. Maybe it means calm freaking calm down is what it means. Take a wrap off. Another translation for that could be detach a little bit. Take a, take a step back and process what is actually happening now. Now listen, everything that I'm saying right now, look, we're talking about combat, but I'm going to get into how this applies to everyday life. But the, there's a, there's a army manual, Army Techniques Publication, ATP 2 Tac 0 1.3. Intelligence preparation of the battlefield. IPB. That's a real buzzword back in the day. IPB, IPB, intelligence preparation of the battlefield. And they break down a process in that manual of, of how you bring information and intelligence into your world and make sense of it. So according to the manual, IPB is described as the, quote, the systematic process of analyzing the mission variables of terrain, enemy weather and civilian considerations in an area of interest to determine their effect on operations. That's, that's a long way of saying they're trying to figure out what it's, what picture is being painted. And some of the steps that they have are not, number one, identify and intake relevant data, determine gaps, initiate collection. So you're going to look at the picture, you're going to intake relevant data, and the first thing you're supposed to do is determine, like, what are we missing? That's the first thing you're supposed to do, what are we missing? Which is an incredibly simple yet profound technique. When you hear something, instead of reacting to it, react by saying, hey, what are we missing? What an incredible process. We hear something, we see something, instead of making a judgment about that thing. Instead say, hey, what, what are we missing here? What are the gaps? And once we figure out what the gaps are, then we initiate collection, collecting so that we can fill those gaps. So we're trying to paint a more clear picture. That's step number one. Step number two, analyze and process data for operational impact. Okay, so now we've, we're starting to collect this information. Information. And then the last one is refine and corroborate threat models using process data. So that's the last thing that you do do. You're actually going to process and refine it and corroborate it over and over again. And, and, and what's important is this whole process is an ongoing process. It, it goes on and on. It's a continual refinement. They say here. This is a quote from that manual. Quote A of IPB is refinement. The conclusions made and the products developed during IPB are continually refined throughout the operation. This information is incorporated into the running estimate as new information is obtained and further analysis is conducted during situation development. This refinement ensures that the commander's decisions are based on the most current information and intelligence available. So what that says to me is another good, simple, yet profound way of thinking is to never think, I know something. I know this is what's going on. I know this is what we're dealing with. That's, that's not happening. In fact, there's a funny expression that we were taught in the SEAL teams to use, which is, appears to be atb. And this was a huge deal because if you were passing information, intelligence. So we're out doing a reconnaissance back in the day out there and you're, you're looking at a target site and we're out in this target site. And you'd see, and by the way, these are training operations that I'm talking about. You'd be out at a target site and you know, they'd set up these cool targets and there'd be, you know, they'd make fake missiles, you know, face, fake ground, air missile. And you'd see them pull it out on like a trailer. And these guys were bad actors, but they're seals, but they're acting like bad guys, right. And they pull out the, the trailer with a missile looking thing on it. And you know, as a new guy, you write back, hey, they've got a, they got a surface to air missile, you know, that's on a launch trailer. And what they teach really quickly is no, that's what appears to be right. Because you don't know what it actually is. Yeah. So very important.
- [14:03]
Echo Charles
Yeah, that's, that is a good one. There's a, another one in the same vein. Instead of saying yes or I think so, you say I believe so. And the only reason I think it's different from I think so is because when you say I think so, it sounds really unsure. Right. Where it's like kind of ambiguous almost, you know, sometimes. And if you say yes, then you're doing what you said is a violation. Where it's like, well, you don't know that for sure, you know, but it's like, hey, it really appears to be so I believe so, you know, kind of a thing. Yeah, that's to sort of narrow it down, but leave that wiggle room for like, hey, but keep in mind, it could very well not be the case, you know, kind of a thing.
- [14:44]
Jocko Willink
Yeah. And plus, it's actually an interesting set of words I think versus I believe.
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Echo Charles
Yeah.
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Jocko Willink
Because I think means I'm leaning towards like, yeah, that, that's a, that's a missile.
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Echo Charles
Yeah.
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Jocko Willink
Right. I think it's a missile.
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Echo Charles
Yeah.
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Jocko Willink
As opposed to I believe it's a missile. Because we know that I, what I believe could be wrong.
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Echo Charles
Yeah.
- [15:03]
Jocko Willink
Now what I think could be wrong.
- [15:04]
Echo Charles
Too, but yeah, it feels like, Tell me if it feels like this to you when someone says I think, I think it feels like there's such a huge margin for, like, hey, I'm not sure. Like, there's. It. I think.
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Jocko Willink
Oh, so you think. I think is less compelled. Compelling.
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Echo Charles
Yeah. Okay. That's what I. That's what it feels like. I believe.
- [15:25]
Jocko Willink
You believe?
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Echo Charles
I believe so, yeah.
- [15:28]
Jocko Willink
Good. Yeah. Those are good points. So then there's another manual. FM2 Tac 22.3, Human Intelligence Collector Operations. And this outlines a methodology as well. Do you know what human intelligence is?
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Echo Charles
Yeah. Humint.
- [15:45]
Jocko Willink
Yes. Hume. I'll look at you. Freaking Tactical Echo has entered the chat. Yeah. These are. Yes, interacting with other human beings. The other human beings, generally speaking, are called sources. In the military, we call them sources. So that would be someone that is, you know, has knowledge, usually a local, national, and they're a source for knowledge. So we call them a source. And so we have teams that gather human intelligence from various sources. Human sources. There's also sources that are digital sources. But generally when you talk about human, you talk about the human sources. You're talking about a person. So this says, quote, processing identifies and exploits that information which is pertinent to the commander's intelligence requirements and facilitates situational understandings. Examples of processing include developing film, enhancing imagery, translating a document from a foreign language, converting electronic data into standardized report that can be analyzed by a system operator, and correlating dissimilar or jumbled information by assembling like elements before the information is forwarded for analysis. So that, to me, is huge, because before they even start to corroborate and look at this information, it's already getting filtered, it's already getting translated, it's already getting kind of put through a bit of a filter and. And then they forward it for analysis. And by. When they say forward for analysis, what they mean is sending that information into. That's been gathered into the senior intel officers. So up above them in the chain of command, the G2 or the J2 or the N2, whatever organization you're working in. And it says, quote, in this step, the G2 or S2 integrates evaluated, analyzed, and interpreted from single or multiple sources and disciplines into finished intelligence products. So there's a lot that's going on before making any moves. And again, this doesn't mean that we don't react at all when something happens. When you get a piece of information, Right. There's. There's small moves that you can make. If we hear that, oh, there's another sector that is an enemy contact, might we start to monitor their. Their radio channel? Yeah. We might do that. Like, hey, let's go ahead and monitor, see what's going on. Might, might I pull back some of my positions? Let's not get overextended right now because if something goes bad in this other sector, look, we're not there right now, but if something goes bad, they're already in enemy contact. Might I say, hey, you know what, let's, let's hold what we got. Don't, don't, don't get any more spread out right now. Let's just hold. Like that's just a little iterative step and 10 minutes go by and they go contacts out.
- [18:31]
Echo Charles
Cool.
- [18:31]
Jocko Willink
We continue with our mission, but we can make these little iterative decisions without saying, oh, the other, other, other elements in contact collapse security. We're gonna go support them. We don't even know if they need support or not. So we could pre stage the team. We could, we could kind of slow down, slow roll a little bit. I could give, you know, if we're back on base, we could give a warning order. I could say, hey Echo, we might have a QRF we gotta do. Or, hey, Echo, we might have to go out in the sector. Hey, Echo, make sure the vehicles are prepped. Like, I could, I could make some small little movement in the direction in case things start. Maybe I just have to, you know, update you as a key leader. Maybe I bring the platoon chiefs and the platoon officers into the room and say, hey, here's what's going on. Just to keep them abreast of the situation. Just give them a situation of what's happening. So we're going to inform the team as to what's going on, but we're not going to freak out and we're not going to be taking a bunch of actions about it. And this goes back to the whip, the whip theory, which is when headquarters or corporate decides to make a little change, which, which takes them four seconds to make. And this, this came from being on a, deployed on a ship in a SEAL platoon. And we got a mission tasking from our headquarters that was on another ship. And they said, hey, you guys are gonna launch on the Navy boats at such and such a time. So we spend the next four hours lugging all of our boats up to, you know, to the. Oh, no, they said helicopter. We're gonna launch on helicopters. We have to lug all our boats up to the flight deck, bring the gas up there. You gotta, you gotta coordinate getting the gas up there. You gotta. Firefighter like Navy dudes that are firefighters, they Gotta go and set a corridor for you to bring the mo gas. It's called mogas up there. Get everything staged build. These limp ducks are called limp ducks because you got to slightly deflate the boats and then you wrap 1 inch tubular nylon around them and you rig them up with. Damn. With honeycomb cardboard. You got to put the engine because they're going to drop like 10ft. You gotta. It's a real process, bro. Yeah, it's not fun. So five hours into this, we're almost done building these limp ducts and we get another call. Actually, you guys are. You guys are going to launch, you know, directly from the well deck, which is nine stories below the big. The back of this giant ship, lowers down, this, this, this like ramp lowers down and you can just launch your boats from there. So they go, hey, actually you're not using helicopters. You're using the boat. You're going to launch off the ramp. Okay, cool, great. We're breaking all this shit down, throwing away honeycomb, getting the fire crew set up, lugging everything back downstairs. We re rigging the boat for sea. Four hours goes by, we get another call. Actually, you know, you're going to go ahead and do helos. By the way, this is just. Someone said you helos tonight. Oh, yeah, they'll use heos. Okay, cool. You know, actually we. It looks like there might be weather. Okay, we'll just send them on the boats and said, okay, cool. They're making a decision in four seconds. Yeah, we actually did this. We. We re rigged the boats down in the well deck. We got told hilo again. We went back up topside, did the whole freaking rigamarole again. Got told no again.
- [21:48]
Echo Charles
So this really happened.
- [21:49]
Jocko Willink
This really happened. Yeah, this is. And I'm so glad it happened to me when I was a young enlisted guy because it made me. You ever heard that saying, don't forget where you came from? I never forgot where I came from. From this event right here. Dude. You freaking lug 55 horsepower motors up and down damn ladder ways on a ship nine times. You're pissed. And you know that they just went, oh, yeah. Okay, well, we'll go ahead and launch from the well deck. That's fine.
- [22:20]
Echo Charles
Yeah.
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Jocko Willink
And then four hours later. Oh, no, no. Oh, there might be weather. Okay, well, we'll go ahead and launch from the hilos. That's great. Okay. Boom. So that little whip, that little movement at the top can create real problems for your people. So you have to understand that as a leader and it's not. It's not just in, in combat situations, not just in the military. It happens in business as well, where some little reaction happens in the business world and we say, oh, there's gonna be a new regulation. Let's, you know, let's, let's make this change to the, to the widget that we're making. And you don't recognize what it's gonna take to make that change to the widget that we're making. You guys used to give me, hassle me about this, you and your brother, Jade Charles, because I'd say we'll just make an app for it or I'd say just program it or whatever.
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Echo Charles
Yeah.
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Jocko Willink
And you guys would both start giving me a freaking stupid lecture about how long it actually takes. But that's the same thing, right?
- [23:15]
Echo Charles
It is the exact same thing. That's what I was thinking about the whole time. Yeah. As a non military person, it's still very clear where these, where that miscommunication can kind of exist. Even with like video stuff. I mean, not to go too deep enough video compared to military operations. I was like that. But it's the same thing where, yeah, if you don't know how it works, you're like, yeah, yeah, just change this text to say this. But meanwhile, it took like three programs and eight days to render out this text. So it's like, okay, I'll change whatever you need to. And then midway through the change, you're like, yeah, you know what? Now that I think of it, yeah. Probably just go, you know, bring it back to the original. And it's that same thing conceptually. Yeah.
- [23:58]
Jocko Willink
So interestingly, what got me, what got me thinking about this topic was, was not just was business, but combat, but more important, life. And specifically right now, the media and every type of media that's out there. And as I mentioned, people freak out about things that are happening. And a lot of things that they see that are happening, they freak out in the media. And a lot of that is due to the goal of a headline. Right? The goal of a headline is. The goal of a headline is to get you to click on that headline. Right? That's, that's the goal. And in order to get you to click, there needs to be some, something compelling in that headline to make you click on it. And there's an old, the old saying, if it, if it bleeds, it leads. You ever heard this saying? Yeah, because they want travesties, they want emotion. And there's, there's such a thing. There's something called the negativity bias. And we've covered biases on, on the underground podcast, but the bias, the negativity biases. We as human beings were programmed to focus on negative things. And the reason we're programmed to focus on negative things because when we were cavemen, in order to survive, if there was something that was seen as a threat, we needed to focus on it. We weren't focused on the happy stuff because we would be dead. So we're programmed genetically to focus on negative things. So when you throw a negative headline out, we're all about it. We're going to click on that thing and negative words will, will translate into increased, increased click rates, which is what they want. That's how they get them. That's how they get their advertising money get you to click on that thing. They need emotional, emotional triggers. Fear, anger, excitement, surprise. But it's a lot easier to make someone angry than it is to make them happy. You have to squelch. You have to. You have to create a squelch button in your mind so that you pay attention to it, but you don't overreact to it. Some. Some. Let's look at some headlines we've had last. I went back to the year 2000. The reason I went back to the year 2000, I was on deployment in the year 2000. And they, they had this thing called Y2K. Do you remember this?
- [26:34]
Echo Charles
Yeah, yeah. Hell yeah.
- [26:37]
Jocko Willink
Here's a headline from the year 2000. Y2K. The end of the world as we know It. That's a freaking headline, dude.
- [26:45]
Echo Charles
Straight up.
- [26:46]
Jocko Willink
You know what I'm saying?
- [26:47]
Echo Charles
Yeah, that's. That goes hard for sure.
- [26:49]
Jocko Willink
That, that's, that's a headline. Yeah, so. So that's meant to fill you with fear and make you click on it, but it's also getting registered. You're registering that. 2009, WHO declares public health emergency as US swine flu cases rise. Remember the swine flu thing happening? What about 2010? Avian influenza? The looming threat. These are just headlines I'm reading. Just headlines. 2011, US debt ceiling crisis. Could the US default? 2013, Ebola in the air. A nightmare that could happen. And by the way, that's cnn. This is not some, you know, off brand low red thing. This is CNN. 2014. New Ebola cases may soon reach 10,000 a week. Officials predict. That's New York Times. 2016. Brexit will cause immediate economic collapse. Immediate economic collapse. And by the way, that's the BBC. That's the BBC again, these are not small like little unknown organizations. 2016 economists. A Trump win would tank the markets. 2018, North Korea will launch a nuclear strike by 2018. I'm going to say that again. North Korea will launch a nuclear strike, bro. 2019, climate catastrophe by 2020. 2020. Bitcoin will be worthless by 2020. That's CNBC. New York will be underwater by 2015. That's an old one. Election meltdown is a real possibility in 2020. Presidential race. Author warns then. I mean, look, do we need to Talk about COVID 2021 COVID 19. The end of the world as we know it, bro. If you ever had a cold before, shit got wild. 2022, global food shortages will spark mass riots. 2023 forecast for US recession within year hits 100% in blow to Biden. And by the way, that's from Bloomberg. That didn't happen. The economy still grew. 2024, election officials say democracy is still at risk in 2024. Look, these are ones we now remember, right? Gulf Stream. You know the Gulf Stream, like the atmospheric movements. Gulf Stream could collapse as early as 2025. Studies suggests. So these are the kind of headlines that are being written. And listen again, these aren't things you can just turn off the squelch on. Like you got to pay attention to things you got to say. Noted. You got to say, Roger.
- [30:34]
Echo Charles
Yeah, especially if it's going to be the end of the world.
- [30:36]
Jocko Willink
Yeah, especially if you got to play close attention to that one. But those are headlines from, you know, big organizations. When you get down to like the YouTube level. Here's. Here's YouTube. Here's some YouTube titles I pulled for you. Each one of these has like a million plus views. World on the brink. Nuclear threat escalates in Europe. Massive cyber attack shuts down major banks. Are you safe? I like how they're now speaking to you. The next pandemic. New virus outbreak sparks panic again. All these with over a million views. China, Taiwan. Tensions explode. Is war inevitable? I guess these questions, a lot of these are coming to question format. Extreme weather destroys cities. Is this the new normal? Deadly heat waves sweep the globe. Globe. Millions at risk. Millions. Like I remember, you know, when I was a kid and growing up, there'd be heat waves in New York City and like people would die. It'd be sad.
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Echo Charles
Of course. Yeah.
- [31:58]
Jocko Willink
Financial meltdown. The next great Depeche. Depression is here. Now listen again. Do you need to. Can you just ignore these things? I'm not saying ignore these things. Do you need to pay attention? What's going on in the economy? Yeah. Do you need to pay attention to what's going on with the weather? Yes. Do you need to pay attention what's going on with health in the world? Sure. Do you need to pay attention what's going on with global politics and make sure that, you know, China's not invading Taiwan?
- [32:23]
Echo Charles
Yeah.
- [32:23]
Jocko Willink
Pay attention to those things. But if you allow yourself to just to freak out about this stuff all the time, you're gonna be in a bad spot. But that's what you're. So what you're up against, what we're up against is this type of provocative, fear inducing clickbait 24 hours a day. And by the way, we also lose the fact of what could, what's actually important. Like what headline are you going to run when there's a real threat? What are they going to say? What can they say? That doesn't sound as bad as millions at risk. Right. Or war is inevitable. Like what? Like what are they going to tell us when war actually is inevitable?
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Echo Charles
Yeah.
- [33:03]
Jocko Willink
What are they going to say then?
- [33:04]
Echo Charles
Or when it is the end of the world or when the end of.
- [33:07]
Jocko Willink
The world is coming? How are they going to notify us of that if we don't believe them? Because they've been crying wolf day after day, year after year? So this was kind of an interesting tool. I thought. Fm once again going back to the human intel collection operation. It says normal policy of not relying on single source information should help prevent deceptions of this type from being effective. And it also says the army uses a standard reliability matrix to rate both the source and the content of the reports, acknowledging that initial information is often of uncertain value until confirmed by other means. So they have various descriptions. The first thing they talk about is reliability. So reliable. This is the best form. This is the A level. Reliable. No doubt about authenticity, trustworthiness or competency. History of complete reliability. You know how many media sources fit into there?
- [34:16]
Echo Charles
I don't know.
- [34:17]
Jocko Willink
1. I can't think of any usually reliable minor doubts. History of mostly valid information. That's B. C, fairly reliable. Some doubts has provided valid information in the past.
- [34:33]
Echo Charles
Okay.
- [34:35]
Jocko Willink
D, not usually reliable. Significant doubts has provided valid information in the past. Okay. E, Unreliable. Lacks authenticity, trustworthiness and competency. History of invalid information. Dude, do you know how many media outlets have put out invalid information that have an actual history of invalid information? It's a lot of media organizations. And the other crazy thing is they don't even, they don't even admit it when it happens. Yeah, they just let it ride. Bury It, Yeah. Very seldom do they correct their story, especially now with the Internet. They can just kind of sneak in and change it. And then the worst rating is reliability cannot be judged. Insufficient information to evaluate reliability. Actually, I don't think that's the worst. I think E is the worst. There's reliability cannot be judged. Which, again, that's a category to think about when you hear something or you garner a piece of information to say, you know what? I can't even judge whether this is accurate or not. I have no history. I don't know. I don't know what, where this information is coming from. I don't know what the source is like. So then you get into, what's the likelihood that this is true or not? The highest level is confirmed. Confirmed by other independent sources, logical and consistent with other info. Just imagine if you just got a piece of information and you just ran through this matrix. You said, wait a second, is this, Is this logical and consistent with other info? That's a predicate to saying, I believe this is like, oh, this, this actually makes sense with everything else I've heard. And by the way, there's other independent sources. That's something that we can confirm. Make sense and confirm by other independent sources. Okay, cool. Then there's probably true. Logical and consistent with other relevant information, but not confirmed. See, people confuse these sometimes.
- [36:34]
Echo Charles
Yeah.
- [36:36]
Jocko Willink
Because something can be logical and consistent, but unconfirmed.
- [36:41]
Echo Charles
Yeah. And also I think sometimes we as people mistake what, what it, what something means when it's logical. Like logical. If you really understand the definition of logical. Sometimes you understand that some people don't know it, what that means.
- [37:01]
Jocko Willink
Yeah. There's also the fact that. Have you ever heard there's a thing with Nancy Pelosi and she's g. She's. She's kind of in a press conference type thing. And she goes through this loop of how you get someone to write a story or a document of some kind, a book, magazine, newspaper article, that sort of calls out an idea that is not true. But then you fast forward and people start to refer to that document as if that document is true. But people don't go and check the original document. And so you end up with this. I, again, this is. I'm not giving 100% accurate information right now because I can't remember the whole loop. But it was a whole loop that she described where you basically are creating a reality by someone writes a newspaper article about something. Then someone writes another newspaper article and refers to that article. And you go a few layers deep and all of a sudden, this thing that is not true at all becomes true, and people are referring back to it.
- [38:07]
Echo Charles
Yeah.
- [38:10]
Jocko Willink
So you got to watch out for that, too, in this day and age. Then there's number three. Possibly true, reasonably logical, agrees with some relevant information. Not confirmed. Number four, doubtfully true, not logical, but possible. No other information on the subject, not confirmed, improbable, which is not logical, contradicted by other relevant information. And then the same thing, you get this category of cannot be judged. The validity of the information cannot be determined. So what I'm saying is, the reason I'm walking through this is that the army has an entire methodology to process and categorize information that it receives. So. And I would even say we could probably sit down and develop another. Another matrix on how we're going to react. Meaning, like, the lowest level of reaction might be, hey, let's inform people, let's inform the leadership. And the highest level of reaction means let's get our gear on and get ready to fight, you know what I'm saying? Or whatever that case may be. But we should, as humans, in this onslaught of information, we should at least put together some kind of a thought process in your head where you can squelch out and you can correctly categorize a lot of these reports and these emotional headlines that come in that are literally meant to spin you up. That's what. That's how they're written. And then we have to modulate our response so that we don't overreact. So there's a bunch of things that we can do that are going to help us not overreact, not freak out. And it's by making sure that as you intake information, you process it correctly, you actually think through it, and then you modulate your response accordingly. Now, in. In order to do this, of course, we have to detach. And detach is a skill that you can learn and you can practice, but there's a protocol for it. And I've actually was. I was talking to some people, and I. And I've made a couple little additions to my detachment protocol for people to make it easier for them. You've heard some of them before. Right. So what's the first thing we're doing is we're going to take a bit. Take a step back. Literally take a step back. Like there's something going on. Something is making your emotions start to increase.
- [40:51]
Echo Charles
Sure.
- [40:52]
Jocko Willink
Take a step back and take a breath. Right. That's the first thing we're going to do. And then we're going to look around and we're going to broaden our vision, and that makes us more calm, and the breath makes us more calm, and taking a step back makes us more calm. That all. All these things are set to make us more calm. Now I'm going to give you another. These are a couple little things that I've added to my detachment protocol that I think will help people be able to detach. And I'm not sure if there's a better word for this, but I'm going to use the word touch point. It's like a physical action that you can take that will force you to mentally to utilize your brain. So for instance, if someone is. If someone. You. This is a little bit of a joke at echelon front. Like, if someone's asking a question of me, I'll sort of like, put my hand on my chin and my finger over my mouth. And everyone jokes that, you know, it kind of looks like the thinking man. You ever seen that statue? Yeah, except from I put my hand kind of over my mouth, and everyone jokes that, oh, you do that. So I do that. So I don't interrupt you, like you're trying to ask me a question or you're making a comment. I literally will put my hand over my mouth to keep my freaking mouth shut. Because I know if I'm jumping in overreacting to what you're saying, it's not going to be good. Now, you could do something like that. You could. You could. You could clasp. Maybe you clasp your hands. Like you feel your pressure start to rise. Like, clasp your hands and like, tap your thumbs. Do something. Put your fingers on your temple. Like, okay, let me think about this. Like, just do. Do something physical. I mean, I used to, like, when I had my gear on, I would like, just, like, put my hand on my pistol. Like, just check where it was. I'd put my hand. You know, you check your safety. You're just going through just doing something that's kind of getting your. Your. Your mind and body connected, right? And at the same time, getting your mind and body disconnected. So you're doing something physical that is going to help you recognize that you're in control of the situation. And then the other part here that I've been telling people lately is like, have a diddy. Have a diddy. A little something that you can say that will get you to freaking calm down, right? You know, you might say something like, recognize, analyze, and react. That's something that I learned when I got to SEAL Team one. They're like, oh, and things are getting crazy. Recognize, analyze, and react. Okay, so recognize what's happening, look around, analyze what the situation is and then react to it. You know, reflect before you react. Something like that. Wait for the desk to settle. Just, you know, it's even that way. Okay, just wait for the desk. Don't let. Don't let the spark start a fire. Cool. Cool heads. Clearer path. Cool head clip. Have a little diddy like that that you can say to yourself that will help you not act like an idiot.
- [43:54]
Echo Charles
I have one.
- [43:55]
Jocko Willink
What is it?
- [43:56]
Echo Charles
Perfect form.
- [43:57]
Jocko Willink
Is that when you're lifting? Perfect form.
- [44:00]
Echo Charles
Perfect form, yeah. You can use it even when you're not lifting, though. So it's, you know, basically prevents you from being emotional, you know, so you.
- [44:07]
Jocko Willink
Say, perfect for perfect. Yeah.
- [44:09]
Echo Charles
Yep, it's true.
- [44:11]
Jocko Willink
One of the best ones came from General Mattis, who said, engage your brain before you engage your weapon. This was his guidance to the 1st Marine Division before Operation Iraqi Freedom. He said, quote, use good judgment and act in the best interest of our nation. You are part of the world's most feared and trusted force. Engage your brain before you engage your weapon. Share your courage with each other as we enter the uncertain terrain north of the line of departure. What great advice, but it's a little ditty that you can say to yourself, oh, you're about to engage your weapon. Wait, did I engage my brain first? That is. That is what we have to do. And if we do that and you don't allow yourself to get spun up, or you don't allow yourself to get frazzled or flustered or emotional, you're going to be in a much better situation. You have to detach. You have to assess. You have to. You have to put that information that you're receiving through that matrix in your head. And then you just make good, small, iterative decisions that move you in what you believe to be the right direction without expending a too much time, too much effort, too many resources, too much leadership, capital. You don't go overboard. And if you do that, when you receive information, again, we're not. I'm sure some people can say, oh, you're, you're ignoring this stuff. It's going to. The economy is going to collapse, or the, the. The weather is going to get bad, or the cities are going to be destroyed. It's like, okay, okay, I'm not saying ignore everything, but I'm saying put it in perspective. If you're freaking out about everything, then nothing really matters. And you're not you're just hearing a. But you end up hearing just a bunch of white noise. You need to be able to squelch enough of those things what's pertinent right now. And if you do that, it's going to make your, your business life, your family life and your emotional health a lot better. And, and it's going to make your decision making process a lot more sound and that's going to improve everything in your life. So that's what I got often do.
- [46:34]
Echo Charles
You think is, is it that people react in these ways because they enjoy it?
- [46:41]
Jocko Willink
I think there's a little bit of that. I also think if you're, I think once you're aware of it, it's, it's not a hard thing to. It's. It's not like an addiction. Now some people, I think to your point, there are some people that like to get angry. They want, they're looking for something to make them mad. Right. That happens. But a lot of people I think, and, and some people I think learn this just they don't learn it consciously, but subconsciously they've all gone, oh yeah, that's another freaking crazy headline. Right, Right.
- [47:10]
Echo Charles
Yes.
- [47:11]
Jocko Willink
But then they get hit with that one headline that gets to them. You know, people that they're more happy when they're mad.
- [47:20]
Echo Charles
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [47:21]
Jocko Willink
Oh yeah. So you know, they're clicking on these things and they're getting mad and they're swearing at the TV or whatever.
- [47:28]
Echo Charles
Yeah.
- [47:28]
Jocko Willink
You know, rage tweeting.
- [47:31]
Echo Charles
Yeah, yeah. Hell yeah.
- [47:32]
Jocko Willink
I think there's also a decent percentage of people that this, they, they need this protocol in their life.
- [47:39]
Echo Charles
Oh yeah.
- [47:40]
Jocko Willink
You know what I mean?
- [47:40]
Echo Charles
I believe most of us.
- [47:42]
Jocko Willink
Yeah. I mean there's people that really get frustrated and, and over things that they have very little control over and by someone, by entities that are literally trying to get them to be emotional about the subject.
- [47:59]
Echo Charles
Yeah.
- [48:00]
Jocko Willink
That's what they're trying to do. And so I think setting up a little protocol. The other thing is, is a lot of these things, I mean, if you look at the headlines that come out every single day, there's like a cat. There's like a catastrophic thing that's happening every single day. Right. Every single day there's, there's a catastrophic event that's about to unfold on all. And we're all gonna die.
- [48:22]
Echo Charles
Yeah.
- [48:22]
Jocko Willink
Or whatever the case may be. Almost every single day. I'd say there's something catastrophic like that.
- [48:26]
Echo Charles
Right.
- [48:27]
Jocko Willink
And so if you're constantly in that cycle that I don't think that's healthy, man. I don't think that's healthy. If it's truly getting to you in an emotional way, then I don't think that's very healthy. I don't think that's very good for you. And I also don't think it's not just from like a physical health thing. But what do you, how do you differ, how do you eventually differentiate between what's real and what's not real? Like what's, what's an actual threat and what's not an actual threat? And how are you going to contend with an. A new threat to our existence every single day or a new threat to the economy every single day or a new threat to the environment every single day, or a new threat to our society? Everything single day. Like every day there is a major imposing existential threat. And if that's where you're at, it's not healthy. And even if you're just getting angry all the time, like that doesn't help you interact with your family or your co workers. Right. So there's very few things that are going to matter that much. And so if you don't learn to squelch some of these less important things. And again, I'm not saying ignore them. Like, yeah, there's tensions between China and Taiwan. Should you know about that? Yes. Do you pay attention? Yeah. There's war escalating in Ukraine. Okay, well, yeah, you need to pay attention to that. There's Israel and Gaza going on. That's bad. We need to pay attention to what's going on over there. But each one of those things, if you got really focused on it, you, you could, you could over focus and you could turn your world into white noise. And you might forget that your kid just came home from school and got an A on her math test. And maybe you should like congratulate her and say, good job studying.
- [50:11]
Echo Charles
Yeah. You know, you know how, you know, you probably know a few people, you know, one or two people who tend to catastrophize things every once in a while. If I come across someone like that. Oh. Kind of smell it on them. That I feel like they're just, they're kind of enjoying it. I'm not saying it's making them happy, but I feel like they're getting some kind of a payoff for, for being like that.
- [50:37]
Jocko Willink
Well, well, from a leadership perspective, it's not good, Right? From a leadership perspective, you, if you catastrophize things, it's not good because. Because first of all, there's very few things that are actual catastrophes, right. That are full on catastrophes, global catastrophes. There's just not that many things that are full on global catastrophes. So if everything or same thing with, you know, with your business, like there are very few things, hopefully you've got a business that is sound and secure enough that there's not many looming catastrophes that could take down your whole business. Right? I mean, very seldom do, do businesses get taken down by a singular event. Very seldom does that happen. But they make mistakes and they have to recover from those mistakes. But if you as a leader, everything is a catastrophe. That, that hurts, that's going to hurt because people, people want to trust you. But you're saying that the world's. The sky is falling. The sky is falling, the sky is falling. The sky never falls. But you've just lost leadership credibility each and every time. Now listen, when something is a true threat, you need to address it, obviously. But catastrophizing everything that occurs is not going to be beneficial for you as a leader. People, people will lose trust in you. If everything is a design, everything is like, oh my gosh, the sky is falling. You're crying wolf all the time. The sky is always falling. People lose trust in you as a leader. So you, you, you have to be very cautious in allowing something to appear, something to come from you as if it's going to be a catastrophe. There's. What does it take to take down a business? I mean, we should, we'll do another review of some of these companies that have made some kind of a mistake and had some kind of a catastrophic impact where the company failed, like Lehman Brothers, like they, in the financial crash went under. But there was a bunch of other ones that were in similar situations that didn't go over under.
- [52:39]
Echo Charles
So yeah, you're right. That's a good way to put it in perspective where it's like, what does it really say? You could go out, you know, down the list of that, you know, that list that you said, like, okay, you know, the end of the world as you know it. Like, what would it really take for it to be the end of the world as I know it? You know, kind of a thing. It's like, well, it's kind of a hard. That's a, that's a big statement there, Channel 8 news.
- [53:04]
Jocko Willink
And then by the way, like, if it was something that took down your business, what is, what is going on with the rest of the world? There might be some of kind, kind of a legitimate global scenario. That's happening. But again, what does it take to cause a global scenario? Like, that's got to be something absolutely massive. You know, even with COVID 19, which was a global phenomenon, and depending on where you were, it may have had little to no impact on what was happening. Look at. It may have had a bigger impact. You know, people died from COVID but there's also a lot of people that just kind of carried on.
- [53:37]
Echo Charles
Yeah.
- [53:37]
Jocko Willink
And so. But that's in the last. In the last we. I guess the. The global economic collapse of 2007, 2008, that was, you know, again, depending on who you are. Guess how much that impacted me. I was in the military. I'm collecting my paycheck every two weeks. Guess how much it impacted me, the global economic collapse. It didn't. It didn't impact me at all. I didn't even. I didn't know it was happening. I mean, I saw it on the news. I saw like a headline, but I didn't. It didn't impact me at all. I didn't have any big investments. I didn't have a bunch of real estate. I wasn't upside down on my mortgage. I had. At that time, I had two houses and I kept paying my mortgage because I kept getting my paycheck and my mortgage was a fixed mortgage, and it was just normal. So this global event didn't, you know, it just didn't impact me that much. And look, some people and I had some friends. I had a friend, he tells a great story, a seal. And he had bought. I think he bought eight houses during the. During the no doc loan scenario.
- [54:43]
Echo Charles
He.
- [54:43]
Jocko Willink
And. And it's so funny. He tells a great story because he'll be like, yeah, I was walking around the team thinking everyone was so stupid. And yeah, he just thought everyone's so stupid. He's the smartest guy in the world because he had now eight houses. Eight houses, bro.
- [54:58]
Echo Charles
Yeah.
- [54:59]
Jocko Willink
And he. He had. He said he had a moment where he had asked like, his. One of his loan guys, like, hey, well, what if the value of the house doesn't go up and the guy's like, oh, then you can you just slowly start selling them off and, you know, be no factor. Every one of his houses. He was able to save his house, but he lost seven houses and it was in like 45 days or something. Something like that. Like, it all just fell apart. So, yeah, it greatly affected him, but that was a glo. Most of the guys in the teams with me didn't affect us at all. We Were all just walking around like, oh, we were talking about like, you know who, what's our next training trip? You know what I mean? We were talking about what are we gonna have for dinner? We weren't talking about this global, global where people killed themselves. Like people killed themselves because they lost everything financially. That was a global economic meltdown. And I didn't even barely know what was happening. And, and I was not the only person. So. And by the way, the houses, I owned houses at the time, like I said, I owned two houses at the time. And I think they lost like they're by the ocean, which was a good thing because they don't make more oceanfront property. Not oceanfront, but they don't make more coastal property. Right. There only is what there is. But in San Diego, like the eastern parts of San Diego where they have track homes and people had bought these track homes and they could just build more track homes and they built more track homes and more track homes and some of those things lost like 40% value. But I lost my homes when I go back and do the research again because I didn't care at the time. Like I didn't care. I was like, I didn't even know it was happening. But when I look back now and you look at the, the, the charts of how much values went down, like coastal San Diego went down 10%. So like a house that I bought for 200 grand, you know, went down to what, 180. But I was sitting there paying the mortgage like it didn't even phase me in any way, shape or form. So these to have a true global catastrophe. And by the way, you know, diversify yourself so that you have, you're not relying on one thing. And again, this just comes down to leverage and not putting yourself in a position where the bank can take your house from you. Right. Don't put yourself in that situation. That's again, this, you know what else? I was driving a 1997 Dodge Grand Caravan, you know, I was driving a 10 year old minivan. And so I didn't have some big loan out against my, for equity on my house. You know what I mean? Would I have wanted to be driving an F350 Super Duty? Sure, I would have loved that. But guess what? I wasn't going to put myself in that situation buying an $80,000 truck. When I got my minivan, I bought a used, my minivan was used and it was like, I don't know, what was it, 4800 bucks? Who knows what it was? But it wasn't, it wasn't like an impact to my monthly budget and I damn sure didn't have to take a loan out against my home in order to buy it.
- [58:09]
Echo Charles
Yeah.
- [58:10]
Jocko Willink
So you got to set yourself up correctly.
- [58:15]
Echo Charles
That's actually a good point.
- [58:17]
Jocko Willink
You don't want to, you don't want to put yourself in a scenario where you can be impacted by a little ripple. Right. Or a big ripple.
- [58:26]
Echo Charles
Yeah. And even that, that does go for these health things because you know how like if you look into it on the healthy you are, the better off you'll be in these sickness scenarios. So it's kind of like that's another method of diversifying yourself in a way where it's like, yeah, sure, it can, it can, it can be, it can affect some people for sure, but there's a certain element of it that's kind of up to you a little bit, you know, not fully.
- [58:53]
Jocko Willink
Not fully, but you can get a horrible disease tomorrow. But there's also a lot of diseases you can fend off if you're living a healthy lifestyle.
- [58:59]
Echo Charles
Just like economically, if you take a hit, if you're, as you said, diversified a little bit, you know, maybe you won't be as affected as much and you have to worry about these clickbaity news reports coming. Coming up at 11. Yeah, that's the, that's when I first realized they were doing it, by the.
- [59:16]
Jocko Willink
Way, you know, back in the day.
- [59:17]
Echo Charles
Yeah, the local news story. 11. Yeah, like, is your credit card killing you more at 11? You know, like, I don't know, I made that up.
- [59:24]
Jocko Willink
Yeah, no, that's a good, that's like, sounds one I just saw today, you know.
- [59:27]
Echo Charles
Yeah, the. Well, you know that fake news report that I made then you were part of you the robot one, right. Where at the end it says, is your weight loss pill killing you more? That. Anyway, that was, that was an homage to the old school local news.
- [59:40]
Jocko Willink
And now there is a weight loss pill that can kill you. Well, I don't know if I'll kill you. Yeah, I think it can make you go blind. No, I'm serious. I read some catastrophic report that the weight loss pill contains. Make you go blind.
- [59:54]
Echo Charles
Hey man, that's yet another example. You know, if you're, if you're taking a pill to lose weight, then it's like maybe that's not the right way. Cuz if that thing turns against you and tries to kill you, you know, you'd be in bad shape. But if you just lose the weight the regular way, you know, you won't have to worry about any murderous weight loss pills or anything of that nature.
- [60:12]
Jocko Willink
Yeah, I think they made those pills for people that are, like, morbidly obese, but now some. Someone that's got to lose, like £9 to fit in your pair of jeans is going on it.
- [60:24]
Echo Charles
Hey, man, run your unit how you run your unit. I. I agree with you. I believe that that is a good protocol.
- [60:30]
Jocko Willink
Yeah, Jack. Well, like I said, detach. Take a step back, take a breath, do a little touch point and say that little ditty. Whatever you're gonna say, I'm not gonna overreact or whatever. Say what you're gonna say. Get that little ditty going in your head. You're gonna make better decisions. You're gonna have a better life. That's what I'm saying. And speaking of better life, and you just mentioned this part of the. Part of life that we can control a lot of, not all of, but is our health. So what, did you train today already?
- [61:06]
Echo Charles
I did one Light. Yes, but later.
- [61:10]
Jocko Willink
What'd you do with light?
- [61:11]
Echo Charles
Road work. Road work? Yeah.
- [61:13]
Jocko Willink
What'd you do for road work?
- [61:14]
Echo Charles
One hour hike down. Up and down the canyon.
- [61:17]
Jocko Willink
Do you listen to anything or you just. Oh, natural. Today.
- [61:19]
Echo Charles
Today I was listening to. I go sometimes. Sometimes on, sometimes off. Today I was listening to Huberman, which I text him right afterwards, said, this one goes hard. It was the one about. They were talking about fractals when I turned it off. Damn. But, well, you know these different patterns in life that just repeat themselves. How big? When you go big and small and stuff like that, a lot of it was just like, you know, how you like a lot of them, but it was this specific one was interesting just how your mind works. When.
- [61:44]
Jocko Willink
Was there a guest on there?
- [61:45]
Echo Charles
Yeah, there was a guest. Okay. I forget his name. Oh, I don't know. But it was.
- [61:49]
Jocko Willink
You'll have to Google that one.
- [61:50]
Echo Charles
Well, just. Or just open the podcast and press play again. But nonetheless, you did work out. But you still did work out. I own the other one. Yeah, we're good to go. We're solid.
- [62:00]
Jocko Willink
You're in the game.
- [62:01]
Echo Charles
We're trucking. Yeah.
- [62:02]
Jocko Willink
So when you're working out, did you work out yesterday?
- [62:04]
Echo Charles
Yes.
- [62:04]
Jocko Willink
Yeah, yesterday I did. I had a good day yesterday. Training Jiu jitsu. A lot of jiu jitsu training.
- [62:11]
Echo Charles
Your yesterday was what, five? Was it a five?
- [62:14]
Jocko Willink
No, I lifted, ran, and then I trained jiu jitsu twice.
- [62:16]
Echo Charles
Yeah, that's a five, right? And imminently qualified.
- [62:19]
Jocko Willink
Oh, yeah, yeah, that's A five.
- [62:20]
Echo Charles
It's like.
- [62:21]
Jocko Willink
Yep, it's. Oh, by the way, also, that's on ice bath. Yeah.
- [62:24]
Echo Charles
Oh, yeah. That's a fight.
- [62:25]
Jocko Willink
It was a great day.
- [62:25]
Echo Charles
Yeah. Yesterday was a one, which was good. Wait, what is it? Two is kind of. So it was a one. I didn't. I had to modify more. More because. Injured injury. Yeah. I don't know. We did it. We got through a BTN for sure. Better than nothing.
- [62:39]
Jocko Willink
Check, check. Hey, when we're working out, need fuel, we recommend jockofuel. Go check out jockofuel.com jockeyfuel.com we got the goods. We pretty much have stuff in stock. If it's not there, it's gonna be tough to get. But we. We pretty much keep everything full stock up at Jocker fuel all the time. Jockerfuel.com free shipping. Over 99 bucks. And by the way, if you used to. If you used to get Jocko fuel back in the day, it might take us like a few days, like four, five, sometimes six days to get it shipped. Now we. We. We ship either the same day or the next day immediately. So everything's in stock. We ship it quick. We got a bunch of loyalty programs, and we got what you need. We got mulk protein. By the way, I've been just drinking milk like, it's crazy. Like a day. Like yesterday.
- [63:29]
Echo Charles
I.
- [63:30]
Jocko Willink
There's no way I would have gotten my macros done if it wasn't for just drinking milk. And have you tried the root beer?
- [63:37]
Echo Charles
No.
- [63:38]
Jocko Willink
Yeah, it's.
- [63:38]
Echo Charles
What?
- [63:39]
Jocko Willink
I don't really even like root beer floats, but we got like a root beer float powder.
- [63:43]
Echo Charles
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [63:44]
Jocko Willink
Gtg. Look, you need protein. You need protein to rebuild. We got the best protein, the best tasting protein. We got go drinks. Go energy drinks. I just had one. I might even have another one today because we're recording some underground podcasts, so I might be going deep greens. What else, man? Hydrate joint war for. You know, I had a friend of mine text me the other day, and he's like, asking me about peptides. He's like, hey, have you. Have you tried peptides? Over 40, having a hard time recovering. And I was like, bro, I haven't tried peptides. I've. I hear good things. Exactly what I told him. I used an Echo Charles quote. I said, I hear good things. But I said, here's what I do. Joint warfare, super krill, time war. I'm like, do that. And I will say I ripped off from. I was talking to Sloan, and Sloan said he heard Mikey Musamechi say that after hard training, he goes for a jog. Now, I already run, but there's a difference between running and jogging. And, and Sloan was saying he feels good after he goes for a jog. I was like, oh. So I've. What I've done is I've extended my jogs a little bit and, and taking a wrap off of like the. I'll still run intense sometimes, but just like a longer, slower jog. And I will confess, feel pretty good after it. It feels like it, it feels like it kind of evens you out. Get the blood flow through the, you know, the, the, the rest of the areas instead of going out, going. You know, when a run is a chore, it's like, all right, here we go. Like, that's what a normal run has always been for me. And I just sort of said, oh, okay, let's see what this other type of running. It feels like. Feels pretty good. So that's what we got. Do those things and you will feel better. Check it out. Jockey fuel.com also you get at Walmart, Wawa vitamin shop, GNCS, military commissaries, a feast, Hannover- Doors, Wake Fern, Shoprite, H E B down in Texas. HEB down in Texas has been out there taking care of those flood victims, which is awesome. I know Leif rolled out and is helping out as well. So great to see. Thanks to Heb for what they're doing down there. And I know we got some Jocko fuel heading out there as well. We also got some jocko fuel heading up the firefighters up in Washington right now. So thanks to all the firefighters that are up there fighting those fires and the rescue workers looking for flood victims. Yeah, that's, that's Heb supporting them down in Texas. Also, Jocko fuel available at Myers, Wegmans, Harris Teeter, Publix down in Florida, Lifetime Fitness, Shields, and a bunch of small gyms everywhere. If you want to have Jocko fuel at your gym, email jfsales aquafuel.com and we got you covered. Also Origin USA we got, we got. We make clothing here in America, which is a big deal because people did not think it could be done. They thought we'd lost the ability to manufacture. They thought Americans were idiots or lazy or we'd lost the knowledge. But we brought the knowledge back. We brought the machinery back. And now we are making jeans, boots, T shirts, hoodies, belts, joggers, workout gear, rash guards, jiu jitsu, geese, all of it a hundred percent made in America from American materials. 100 communist free 100 tyrannical leader free. 100American made. Go to originusa.com and get what you need to get.
- [67:24]
Echo Charles
Speaking of clothing. Jocko store.com Discipline equals freedom shirts. Got some hats on. Actually hats sold out. Sorry. We'll get some more soon. Some hoodies on there. I know it's summertime still, so, you know, maybe we're not having hoodies that much, but you know, that's why the lightweight hoodie. Lightweight hoodies on there. Short locker. It's a new design every month. People seem to like that one. So yeah, sign up for that subscription scenario. We, we do have a new discipline equals freedom shirt coming out in.
- [67:58]
Jocko Willink
What version is this? 3.05? 5.0 fifth edition. Okay.
- [68:03]
Echo Charles
Yep, it's a good one. Updated. It's a good one. Anyway you want to. If you want to put your name or your. Sorry, your email in there to get notified for like all this new stuff or whatever, just do it through that website.
- [68:14]
Jocko Willink
Jocko store.com but what if people don't want to get spammed?
- [68:18]
Echo Charles
They do not have to worry about spam for me ever under any circumstances.
- [68:22]
Jocko Willink
Check j store.com check that out. Also primal beef.com and coloradocraft beef.com you need steak in your life, might as well get the best steak from the best people. Primalbeef.com coloradocraftbeef.com check them out. Also subscribe to the podcast. Also Jocko Underground. We're about to record some of those. That is us answering your questions. Check that out. Jocko underground.com got YouTube channels. Also I've written a bunch of books. Dave Burke wrote a book.
- [68:51]
Echo Charles
Yeah, good deal too.
- [68:52]
Jocko Willink
Called need to lead. You can pre order it right now. Comes out October. You don't want to get that second edish. Do you want to get a second edition? Get you want to get you on the mailing list for the second edition?
- [69:03]
Echo Charles
No sir.
- [69:03]
Jocko Willink
Want that first edition. Got to get that first edition from Dave Burke. Also I've written a bunch of books. I've written a bunch of kids books. Check those out if you want. We have a leadership consultancy. It's called Echelon Front. We solve problems through leadership. The problems that you have inside your organization, regardless of what they are, they're leadership problems. In order to solve those problems, you need leadership. Leadership is the solution. So go to echelonfront.com if you need leadership consultancy inside your organization, we can help you. Or you come to one of our events. We got the muster coming up December 7th through the 9th. In Orlando, Florida. If you want to come to these things, you gotta register early because they sell out. So check out the muster. Check out some of our other events. FTX Council just finished the council. They're awesome. We do the Battlefield Women's Assembly September 11th through the 13th in San Antonio, Texas. So we got a bunch of good stuff for you. Check those out. We also have online training to teach the skills of leadership. Go to extremeownership.com if you want to learn how to lead. Leadership is a skill. It's actually a bunch of skills. You know, you just don't pick up a basketball and you're able to shoot a free throw. That doesn't happen. You need to learn the skill. You don't pick up a guitar and you can play Led Zeppelin. Doesn't happen. It's a skill. Leadership is a skill. If you want to learn the skill of leadership, go to extreme ownership.com also if you want to help service members active and retired, you want to help their families, you want to help gold star families? Check out Mark Lee's mom, Mama Lee. Incredible charity organization helping all the time. If you want to donate or you want to get involved, go to America's mighty warriors.org also check out our heroes and horses.org and then Jimmy May's organization beyond the brotherhood.org if you want to connect with us, you can check out jocko.com or you can find us on social media. I'm Jocko Willink. Echoes at Echo Charles Just watch out because that algorithm will get you drown you electrons and you'll lose your life. Also thanks to the army, Navy, Air force and Marine Corps for holding the line around the world leading from the front. Also Coast Guard out there did some epic work down there in Texas. So thanks for what you do as well. Also thanks to our police, law enforcement, firefighters, paramedics, EMTs, dispatchers, correctional officers, border patrol, secret service, all of the first responders. Thank you for keeping us safe here at home. And for everyone else out there, let's get some final guidance from Colonel David Hackworth. He wrote a book called About Face. It's my favorite book. Here's his statements here quote the worst thing you can do is overreact. If you lose your head, you lose your men. Panic is contagious. I learned in World War II that the slightest bit of excitement in a leader is transmitted to to the men. You might be afraid, but the fear gets magnified in the troops. Somebody has to keep his cool. If you're a decent leader, you don't dare lose it. For your own good, you've got to keep your unit up there doing its job. If a leader loses control, the whole unit can fall apart. Calm, deliberate action saves lives. End quote. And there you go. Listen to hack. That's all we've got for tonight and until next time, this is Echo and Jocko out.