Jocko Podcast 508: The Mission Continues Beyond Ramadi, with Major Scott Huesing

Date: October 1, 2025
Host: Jocko Willink (A), with Echo Charles (B)
Guest: Major Scott Huesing (C), USMC (Ret.), author of Echo in Ramadi

Episode Overview

This episode features a candid, deeply reflective conversation between retired Navy SEAL Jocko Willink and retired Marine Major Scott Huesing, author of Echo in Ramadi. Huesing shares the journey from his troubled youth through 24 years in the Marine Corps, leading Echo Company, 2nd Battalion, 4th Marines in Ramadi during some of the deadliest fighting of the Iraq War. The episode explores the reality of modern urban combat, leadership, loss, the transition home, and the ongoing mission of sharing veterans’ stories. The tone is raw, honest, and deeply human, filled with hard-earned lessons for anyone—military or civilian—interested in leadership, brotherhood, and overcoming adversity.

Table of Contents

1. Scott Huesing’s Path to the Marines (03:00)
2. Career Progression: From Enlisted to Company Commander (06:51)
3. First Combat Experiences & Leadership Lessons (13:13)
4. 9/11–A Career Turns Toward War (16:42)
5. Baghdad, Blackwater, and the Reality of War (21:57)
6. Leadership Challenges in Iraq (29:45)
7. Deploying to Ramadi: Entering the “Super Bowl” of Combat (30:59)
8. Combat Realities: The Burden of Command (40:06)
9. Key Principles of Leadership Under Fire (43:31)
10. Urban Combat in Ramadi: Malab and Beyond (45:26)
11. Teamwork Across Branches; Aggressiveness as Survival (52:35)
12. Stories of Sacrifice: Libby, Espinosa, Sanchez, Matus (59:15, 133:13)
13. Cultural Friction and Civilian Casualties (116:10)
14. The Transition Home: Loss, Reflection, and Moving Forward (160:33)
15. Veteran Storytelling, Authorship, and Solid Copy Media (181:13)
16. Full Circle: Human Connection and Leadership Legacy (217:48)
17. Ramadi Reunion & Closing Thoughts (231:44)

Detailed Summary

Scott Huesing’s Path to the Marines (03:00)

• Huesing humorously confesses a troubled youth—“graduated ultimately with a smoking hot 1.24 GPA” ([03:00], C)—but found direction thanks to an impulsive visit to a Marine recruiting office.
• The Marine recruiters’ bravado, uniforms, and energy “sold” him immediately on enlistment.
• Early years were spent as a Hawk missile operator and Stinger gunner, then post-Desert Storm, a shift towards college and then the Reserves.

Career Progression: From Enlisted to Company Commander (06:51)

• Transitioned from enlisted Marine to officer via the Platoon Leaders Course, thanks to a “catalyst” recruiter, Sergeant Connor.
• “Sergeant Connor, man, if you’re listening to this show, give me a shout, brother.” ([07:44], C)
• Commissioned in 1998 (same year as Jocko), assigned to infantry after “equal distribution of smartness and dumbness” at The Basic School.
• Detailed the unique Marine Corps’ assignment system and the “secret society” of the Infantry Officers Course.

First Combat Experiences & Leadership Lessons (13:13)

• Assigned to 29 Palms—initially disappointed, but came to love constant “blowing stuff up and shooting all day long.”
• Describes initial leadership lessons: the most important thing he learned from being enlisted time was not “to waste [a Marine’s] time on ancillary tasks” ([09:42], C).
• “I just wanted them to be training, studying, chasing girls or PT, man. Like, that’s the important stuff.” ([09:42], C)
• Early experience of force reduction post-Desert Storm and the quirks of peacetime military life.

9/11–A Career Turns Toward War (16:42)

• On Sep 11, 2001, stationed in Okinawa—vivid recollection of watching the attacks unfold on a “tiny TV.”
• The war’s onset led to rotations through FAST Company, anti-terror ops, and diplomatic security (including in Spain, Baghdad).
• “Any professional warrior, you guys understand… everybody wants their war.” ([18:25], C)
• September 11 marked a turning point, both personally and for the military.

Baghdad, Blackwater, and the Reality of War (21:57)

• Describes life in Baghdad, 2004: “It was like the Star Wars cantina… civilians, contractors, USAID, Marines, Blackwater yahoos… it was madness.” ([25:03], C)
• Worked closely with Blackwater, survived routine rocket and mortar attacks.
• Tells the story of meeting Rich and Andy Devine—powerful examples of “the power of human connection” ([24:52], C).

Leadership Challenges in Iraq (29:45)

• Sent to Expeditionary Warfare School, then suddenly ordered to take command in 2/4, living at work (“no point even getting an apartment or house because the training cycle is just so intense” [30:28], C).
• Training for deployment to the MEU; kept in operational secrecy until told en route they were going into Iraq as part of the major “Surge.”

Deploying to Ramadi: Entering the “Super Bowl” of Combat (30:59)

• Arrival in Ramadi at height of Surge: “It really was a Super Bowl of combat, man… fighting every single day, four, five, six times a day on some days against a very well-trained insurgent force.” ([30:59], C)
• Commanded over 250 Marines under daily urban combat—intense leadership pressure: “It was survival… If you had to take a scoreboard… we were lighting up the scoreboard. But that was never really quantified to us.” ([30:59], C)
• Senior leadership never outlined what "winning" was; leadership at every level became critical.

Combat Realities: The Burden of Command (40:06)

• Relays how he told his Marines before combat:

  “This is the first time you’re in combat... you will have to kill. I don’t expect that this will be easy… But know this. I am ordering you to kill...And when this is all over, it will be my burden to carry, because I am ordering you to do it… you will leave this place without regret.” ([40:06], C)

• Stressed the need to release the psychological burden from his young men, to give them space for the unnatural act of killing.

Key Principles of Leadership Under Fire (43:31)

• Ultimate leadership lesson: caring about your people above all else. “If you don’t care about what you’re doing… get out… that’s what builds great teams.”
• “You can teach a Marine to fight better, to shoot straighter… the one thing you can't teach [him] is how to care.” ([44:22], C)
• Fundamental dichotomy: You’ll risk the lives of those you care for most, which is the “ultimate dichotomy.”

Urban Combat in Ramadi: Malab and Beyond (45:26)

• Describes the Malab district as “South Central”—urban combat so intense “you could start your stopwatch [when] you went on patrol… you were going to get contacted.”
• Adopted aggressive tactics: walking, not riding, through the city to avoid IEDs. “We’re going to walk… We’re going to clear systematically. If a bad guy sticks his head around a corner, he will run into us and get fucked up.” ([46:13], C)

Teamwork Across Branches; Aggressiveness as Survival (52:35)

• Worked with outnumbered, exhausted Army companies: arrived at full strength (approx. 200 Marines) and absorbed “enablers” (EOD, interpreters, etc.)—“if you wanted to fight, you rolled with us.”
• Aggressiveness as safety: “Being more aggressive is the safest thing to do.” ([52:35], A)

Stories of Sacrifice: Libby, Espinosa, Sanchez, Matus (59:15, 133:13)

• The episode contains several vivid accounts of casualties—most notably, the deaths of Libby, Espinosa, Sanchez, and Matus.

• Stresses both the burden and the beauty of command: relationships with Gold Star families, and carrying on the memory and legacy of fallen Marines.

  “I don’t know where Gold Star families come from… They breed these young warriors, then you lose them in combat… I only have one word to describe them: extraordinary.” ([64:37], C)

• Also told: miraculous stories of Marines surviving, returning from hospitals to the front without command even knowing.

• Explains the “insurance policy” of aggressive action: accepting the unacceptable reality that casualties will absolutely occur, trying to minimize them.

Cultural Friction and Civilian Casualties (116:10)

• Describes heart-rending incidents of civilian casualties: “collateral damage” isn’t a statistic—it’s people, and these stories had to be included.
• Example: Marines, despite extensive warnings, opened fire on a car carrying a family to the hospital, as the information didn’t pass in turnover: “It was nothing… Hindsight’s always 20/20 in combat.” ([117:36], C)
• Highlights the impossibility of American cultural “imposition” on ancient societies: “American hubris. To think we can impose our piss-ant 250-year existence and culture on a culture that’s been around almost 4000 years.” ([117:36], C)
• Lessons for post-war planners: training on culture matters as much (or more) than military prowess.

The Transition Home: Loss, Reflection, and Moving Forward (160:33)

• The return voyage on ship gave time for decompression, “no liberty incidents” en route home.

• Easier transitions for leaders with life experience; harder for some Marines, especially those who lost comrades.

• The need for connection, support systems, and purpose after return—finding new “friction” or missions to fill the void.

  “It was like the absence of that friction… For me, it was the absence of that friction. How do you replace that type of adrenaline?” ([167:13], C)

• Scott describes his own post-war struggles: pain, panic attacks, and ultimately a brush with disaster in a post-retirement drunk driving crash—his "rock bottom" before moving forward.

Veteran Storytelling, Authorship, and Solid Copy Media (181:13)

• The healing (and challenge) of writing: “It wasn’t some big cathartic moment… For me, writing is a job. It’s work. It’s a kick in the balls most days.”
• Importance of accuracy and humility in military writing: “If your ego doesn’t hurt when you’re putting pen to paper, you’re not doing the right thing.” ([97:54], A)
• Huesing’s post-military mission: mentoring veterans to write and share their stories through SolidCopyMedia.com—a platform to guide, filter, and connect aspiring vet authors, with contributions from accomplished editors and writers.
• “You have to invest in yourself… I’ve created the world’s best bullshit filter.” ([193:25], C)
• Developed a robust network, connecting best-selling vet authors, publicists, and editors to help bring important stories to the world.

Full Circle: Human Connection and Leadership Legacy (217:48)

• Huesing’s story comes full circle: first military book he read in Desert Storm was Guns Up by Johnnie M. Clark—years later, became friends, exchanged books, and reflected on the lasting power of human connections in war.
• Jocko and Scott reflect on the importance of capturing veteran oral histories while they’re still alive—vital for future generations’ understanding, and for honoring true sacrifice.

Ramadi Reunion & Closing Thoughts (231:44)

Ramadi Reunion 20

• Event for anyone who served with or alongside the Ready First Brigade in Ramadi, or Gold Star families:
  January 16-17, 2026, El Paso, TX
  RamadiReunion20.com

Additional Resources and Connections

• Scott Huesing: scotthuesing.com, Instagram @echo_in_ramadi, solidcopymedia.com
• Book: Echo in Ramadi
• Other recommended books: Forged in Chaos by Tyler Grey, A Few Bad Men by Fred Galvin, Where Cowards Go to Die by Ben Sledge, Guns, Girls & Greed by Morgan Lerette, Guns Up by Johnnie M. Clark

Final Thoughts

• Importance of reunions and continuous connection for veterans: “It’s important to reunite… We have to make time to do that.” ([237:04], C)
• Jocko’s parting charge: “Honor their sacrifices by the way you live your life—and that should be to the fullest.” ([237:55], A)

Notable Quotes & Moments

On the Burden of Command:

“I spoke in forceful, confident tone… ‘You will kill. And when this is all over, it will be my responsibility… you will leave this place without regret. And we will win. Is that understood?’” ([40:06], C)

On Leadership:

“If you don’t care about what you’re doing, get out… that’s what builds great teams is having those leaders… that really understand that you have to care.” ([44:22], C)

On Writing Honestly:

“If your ego doesn’t hurt when you’re putting your pen to paper, you’re not doing the right thing.” ([97:54], A)
“Talking about the failures, man, is what real leaders do.” ([101:53], C)

On Lessons in Urban Combat:

“We’re light infantry. We’re gonna walk… If a bad guy sticks his head around a corner, they’re going to run into one of my squads and they’re going to get fucked up.” ([46:13], C)

On Legacy and Remembrance:

“You may not realize you’re doing it, but everything you do is leaving an impression and impact on those you lead, good, bad, or otherwise.” ([97:07], C)

On Cultural Friction:

“American hubris. To think we can impose our piss-ant 250-year existence and culture on a culture that’s been around almost 4000 years.” ([117:36], C)

On Loss Beyond the Battlefield:

“A lot of guys in my company have killed themselves. I don’t ever sugarcoat it. They took their own life by suicide. The numbers are just astronomical…” ([56:47], C)

Key Timestamps

• 03:00 — Huesing’s youth and enlistment
• 06:51 — Officer commissioning pathway
• 16:42 — September 11 and FAST Company
• 21:57 — Baghdad deployment, Blackwater
• 29:45 — Taking command, deployment prep
• 30:59 — Going to Ramadi for the Surge
• 40:06 — Huesing’s pre-combat speech to Marines
• 43:31 — Core leadership lessons
• 45:26 — Malab fights, aggressive tactics
• 52:35 — Aggressiveness as defense, enabling teams
• 59:15; 133:13 — Espinosa, Libby, Sanchez, Matus—sacrifice and Gold Star families
• 116:10 — Civilian casualties, complexities of urban operations
• 160:33 — Returning home, decompression
• 181:13 — Struggles after war, storytelling mission
• 217:48 — Connection with Johnnie Clark, “Guns Up”
• 231:44 — Ramadi reunion, calls to reconnect
• 237:55 — Jocko’s closing charge to honor the fallen

Episode Tone & Takeaways

A deeply authentic snapshot of war and its aftermath told with humility, humor, and pain. Scott Huesing’s candor—about leadership, mistakes, trauma, and recovery—offers lessons in authentic leadership under fire and the importance of human connection in and after combat. The obligation to remember, record, and honor these stories extends far beyond the battlefield—and, as Jocko says, “honor their sacrifices by the way you live your life.”

For more:

• Echo in Ramadi by Scott Huesing
• SolidCopyMedia.com for aspiring writers
• RamadiReunion20.com for 2005-2007 Ramadi veterans and Gold Star families

“Semper Fi to the magnificent bastards of 2nd Battalion 4th Marines. Thank you for carrying on the proud tradition of the Marine Corps.” ([237:55], A)