513: Be Big in the Little Things. Lessons from a Hero. With Ryan Manion

Summary

Jocko Podcast 513: Be Big in the Little Things. Lessons from a Hero. With Ryan Manion

Release Date: November 5, 2025
Host: Jocko Willink (A), Echo Charles (B)
Guest: Ryan Manion (C), CEO of the Travis Manion Foundation, author, and sister of fallen Marine Travis Manion

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Main Theme & Purpose

This episode focuses on the legacy and character of Marine 1st Lt. Travis Manion, whose selfless life and ultimate sacrifice have inspired a movement of service and leadership. Through the lens of Ryan Manion’s new children’s book, Things My Brother Used to Say, the discussion uncovers not just Travis’s heroism, but his everyday discipline, compassion, and the foundational work carried forward by the Travis Manion Foundation (TMF). The conversation offers lessons on leadership, character development, and the value of "being big in the little things," aiming to inspire both kids and adults to make a positive impact.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins and Growth of the Travis Manion Foundation

• Founding Story: TMF was started after Travis’s death in 2007, initially as a local scholarship fund [04:12].
  • "We thought it would operate locally in Philadelphia, and I'll tell you what, you know, there was this moment where all of a sudden, we kind of looked at each other maybe 18 months, 24 months down the line, and we were like, oh, shit. Like, she's really doing something here." – Ryan Manion [04:58]
• Transition to National Organization: Under Ryan’s leadership (after her mother's passing), TMF grew into one of the nation’s largest veteran service organizations, now with over 300,000 members [08:25].
• Unique Model: Veterans lead all programs; focus is not only on direct veteran/family support but also on character-based youth programs [09:23, 10:10].

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2. Character Development Programs & Impact

• Mission Evolution: TMF’s work with youth became a major arm, inspired by Travis’s character and mentorship experiences [10:10].
  • Over a million youth have participated in programs taught by veterans, covering servant leadership and character [10:55].
• Implementation: 70+ chapters, from in-school programs to assemblies and student-led service clubs [12:58].
  • "Our biggest issue as an organization is we can't fulfill the number of schools... that want to bring this program. We need more veterans.” – Ryan Manion [12:16]
• Community Engagement: Popular events like the Joggin’ for Frogmen and 9/11 Heroes Run ("not about the run, it's about galvanizing communities") [14:11–15:43].

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3. The Army-Navy Game & TMF Tailgate: Patriotism in Action

• The TMF Tailgate: Started as a small family tradition; now a massive patriotic festival attended by thousands [17:43–20:56].
  • "This isn’t a tailgate. This is like a goddamn festival." – Baltimore Sun reporter (quoted by Ryan) [19:32]
• Purpose: Celebrates camaraderie, service, and gives veterans and families a space for community [15:09, 21:02].
• Gala: TMF’s annual elegant event to honor supporters and veterans ("recognized Jocko Fuel for their support") [22:08–25:17].

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4. The Power and Challenge of Creating Children's Books on Character

• Genesis of ‘Things My Brother Used to Say’: TMF team wanted a way to reach younger kids with Travis's lessons; led to the children's book [25:54].
• Writing Process: Focused on real phrases Travis used; distilled down to five core lessons from many more [27:56].
  • "We had to cut down... What are the five most important ones we want in this book?" – Ryan [27:42]
• Making Travis Personal: Book opens with childhood photos to humanize Travis beyond his Marine image [31:17–32:27].
  • "It was just an amazing way to start off the book." – Jocko [31:58]

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The Five Key Lessons from Travis Manion ([41:06–66:44])

1. Find Your Brendan

   • Based on Travis’s friendship with Brendan Looney, emphasizes surrounding yourself with people who challenge and lift you up [42:25].
   • "Friendship was about finding people that pushed you to be the best version of yourself." – Ryan [43:01]

2. Kindness Matters More Than You Know

   • Travis’s friendship with an unremarkable classmate shows the importance and impact of simple, inclusive kindness [45:32].
   • "The humanity in him... he just possessed so much compassion." – Ryan [47:36]
   • Years later, that friend (pseudonym 'Sam') wrote to the Manion family, expressing how Travis’s friendship changed his life [46:13].

3. Dream Big and Work Hard to Get There

   • Travis set and wrote down concrete, ambitious goals from a young age, working methodically toward them [51:03–53:49].
   • "If you can teach your kids that, you will be in a really, really good spot." – Jocko [60:20]
   • Discussion includes Travis's time at the Naval Academy, his temporary departure, and mature return [54:02–59:51].

4. Be Big in the Little Things

   • The idea of excelling in daily, ‘little’ actions (helping at home, caring for others, doing small kindnesses), which builds the foundation for heroic acts [61:03–63:48].
   • "How you do anything is how you do everything." – Jocko [63:15]
   • Travis would paint "Be Big in the Little Things" on his wall, teaching by example [61:03].

5. If Not Me, Then Who?

   • Travis’s guiding motto signifying personal responsibility and the courage to step up—whether in profound or small ways [63:48–65:19].
   • "If you ask yourself, if not me, then who, it's gonna change your attitude 100%." – Jocko [64:13]
   • "Those five words are not unique to Travis Manion... but they represent this entire generation of men and women who have volunteered to step up and serve." – Ryan [65:40]

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5. The Lasting Legacy & Foundation’s Impact

• Expanding the Reach: TMF empowers veterans, provides them with purpose, and offers character programming to youth across America [70:21].
  • "We are making sure... at the forefront of everything we do is making sure that we're giving veterans continued purpose when they're taking off the uniform... helps their mental health..." – Ryan [70:21]
• Personal Reflections on Loss and Purpose:
  • "I would do anything to have him here. And I don't care about the legacy he's left... selfishly, he's my brother..." – Ryan [66:44]
  • "Your brother would not trade coming back to for the impact that his name and his story has created." – Unnamed friend (paraphrased) [67:39]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "If not me, then who?" — Travis Manion’s defining ethos [00:56, 63:48]
• "Be big in the little things." — Lesson and mindset Travis lived by [61:03]
• "Both those groups are looking for you... the kind of friends that you are looking for, you will find." – Jocko [44:24]
• "Being big in the little things... it made him even bigger in the big things, in the big moments, when it counted. I. E. April 29, 2007." – Ryan [63:24]

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Timestamps of Important Segments

• 00:07 | Introduction, Travis Manion’s story, book context
• 04:12–09:23 | Founding and rapid growth of the TMF
• 10:10–14:41 | TMF programs for youth and role of veterans
• 15:09–22:09 | Community events: running series, Army-Navy tailgate, gala
• 25:54–31:58 | Genesis and intent of the new children’s book
• 41:06–66:44 | In-depth discussion of the five key lessons from Travis (core of the episode)
• 66:44–70:21 | Legacy, purpose, and TMF’s ongoing mission
• 72:25–74:02 | Book release details, how to support/buy

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Resources & How to Get Involved

• Travis Manion Foundation: travismanion.org, social media @travismanionfoundation
• Ryan Manion: ryanmanion.com, IG/X: @rmanion
• Book: Things My Brother Used to Say (pre-sale on Amazon Nov. 5, full release Nov. 24; also available at TMF events and Army-Navy tailgate)
• Events: 9/11 Heroes Run, Joggin’ for Frogmen, TMF Gala, Army-Navy Tailgate

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Closing Reflections

Be big in the little things: The episode closes with the challenge to all listeners to embody Travis’s philosophy, emphasizing that consistency in small, positive actions leads to significant impact over time:

"Little things add up and over time the little things become big things." – Jocko [END]

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This episode is a must-listen for anyone seeking inspiration on leadership, service, and the enduring power of daily character. Ryan Manion’s heartfelt stories, Jocko’s thoughtful insights, and the legacy of Travis Manion offer valuable lessons for every generation.

Transcript

[A]

This is Jocko, podcast number 513 with Echo Charles and me, Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo.

[B]

Good evening.

[A]

One day before Travis was set to head back out with the Marines to serve in Iraq, he went with his friends to a football game to watch his favorite team, the Philadelphia Eagles, play and create fun memories. The Eagles won, and Travis and his friends were pumped. But they were also sad because he would soon be leaving the country. One of them jokingly grabbed Travis. How about we keep you from going back to Iraq so you can stay here and have fun with all of us instead? Travis knew his friend was just kidding around and wanted him to stay in Philadelphia where it was safe. But Travis also knew that he had to face the dangers of war because protecting America's freedom was the most important thing he believed he could do to help his country. Travis became very serious. He knew that staying behind would leave his team without his experience. And if another Marine replaced him, that Marine might not have the same level of training that he had. Travis took his duty very seriously. He turned to his friend and said five simple words. Words, if not me, then who? And that right there is an excerpt from a new book, a kids book. And the book is called Things My Brother Used to Say. And it is written by Travis's sister, Ryan. Man, Ryan Manion. And the book shares the wisdom of Travis Manion, who was a wrestler, a graduate from the Naval Academy, a Marine Corps officer, a recipient of the Silver Star, a man who sacrificed his life for his friends and for his nation, and the author, Ryan Manion. As I said, it's Travis Mannion's sister. She is also the daughter of Marine Corps Colonel Tom Manion, who is on this podcast many years ago, episode number 72. And we discussed the book that he wrote, which was entitled Brothers Forever. And it was about his son, Travis, and his son's best friend, Brendan Looney, another individual from the Naval Academy who is a SEAL who was also killed in combat. And Ryan has also been on this podcast before, episode number 201. And we discussed her first book, which is called the Knock at the Door. And so if you haven't listened to podcast 72 and you haven't listened to podcast 201, go listen to them to kind of hear the full backstory of Travis, hear about the hero that he was, the inspiration that he was and is, and how he left such an amazing and immense impact on the people around him. And Ryan has carried on that impact. And that's not only with her books, but she has a podcast called the Resilient Life Podcast. And of course, and perhaps most impactfully, she is the CEO of an organization called the Travis Manion foundation, which has the goal of empowering veterans and families of fallen heroes to develop character in future generations. And it is an honor to have Ryan with us once again here tonight to discuss this new book, this new kid's book, a kid's book that I learned a lot from. It's called Things My Brother Used to Say. And she can help explain how we can all continue to follow Travis Manion's incredible lead. Ryan, thanks for joining us once again.

[C]

Thanks for having me.

[A]

Yeah, it's great to see you. And, you know, we're going to get into this book. I'm sure a lot of kids are going to get to this book, and I bet a lot of parents are going to learn a lot from this book as well. Let's talk a little bit just to, just to introduce the Travis Manion Foundation. Tell us about when it started and where it's at right now.

[C]

So the foundation started really right after Travis was killed. That was 2007, and there was no go fund me back then or anything. And in the newspaper and Travis's obituary, we had put in lieu of flowers, please donate to the First Lieutenant Travis Mannion Memorial Fund. And my parents, friends had set up a bank account at a local bank outside of Philadelphia. And a couple of weeks after his funeral, we had several hundred thousand dollars in this bank account. And we were like, oh, crap. Like, what are we doing with this? You know, Travis wasn't married, he had no children. And so really, at first we were like, okay, well, what's the natural thing to do? We're going to support initiatives at his high school and at his college. So we did some stuff at the Naval Academy. We did some stuff at LaSalle College High School outside of Philadelphia, where he went to high school. And then it was really my mom, she was like, you know, I want to, I'm gonna, I want to become a foundation. I want to. I want to do stuff. And my dad and I, I always say, because people all the time are. Will say to my dad and I like, what you've done, what you've created. And we are very quick to say we created nothing. Like, we looked at this. I remember it was actually in, I believe it might have been in San Diego. It was at a Marine Corps ball that we went to the year after Travis died. We went with his recon unit. They had invited us, and my dad was sitting out on the Deck. He was smoking a cigar. It was after the Marine Corps Ball. And he's like, you know, I think we should let your mom run with this. This is a really good way for her to, like, put her energy into something. And so we saw it this as this great way for her to channel her grief. And we thought it would operate locally in Philadelphia, she'd give out scholarships. And I'll tell you what, you know, there was this moment where all of a sudden, we kind of looked at each other maybe 18 months, 24 months down the line, and we were like, oh, shit. Like, she's like, she's really doing something here. And so I'm always very quick to say, like, I jumped on the bandwagon. I waited until there was, like, proof of concept, and then I was like, I want to be a part of this, you know, so. So we opened our second office here in San Diego. We were located in Philadelphia, open in San Diego. And I joined the foundation, and I was working underneath my mom, like. Like, I was just like, her protege. I was following her around. And it was so awesome to see my mom as a military spouse who never had a career herself because we moved so many times. So she just showed up, and she was a teacher's aide or she worked at the dentist office as a receptionist. She did whatever she could just to find something wherever we were living. And to see all of a sudden her have this, like, incredible business acumen, and I'm like, she's running stuff. Like, this is incredible. And I only worked with her briefly just a little over a year before she was diagnosed with cancer. And she died eight months after the day she was diagnosed with stage four cancer. And two weeks later, our board of directors held a emergency board meeting. And they said, ryan, you're in charge. And it was probably the scariest moment of my life because I had no idea what I was doing, because really, I was just kind of my mom's TaskRabbit. It was like, I can get that done. I can do that. And now I felt like I had these incredible shoes I had to fill. It was this organization named after my brother that my mom had founded and had gotten at that point, like, people were talking about us, like, in the VSO space. You knew of the Travis Manion Foundation. So there was a lot of pressure, and a lot of times people will say, well, like, how did you take TMF from where it was after your mom passed to where it is today? And I got some really great advice, and it came from Alex Gorski, who serves as our vice chair at the Travis Manning Foundation. He's a West Point grad. He was the chairman and CEO of Johnson and Johnson. And I remember having a conversation with him, and I said, I don't know what I'm doing. And he said to me, hire smart people then. And that's what I did. And I went out and I found the smartest people I could find that knew how to do this. And that's how the Travis Manion foundation grew. And, you know, here we are today. We are one of the largest veterans service organizations in the country with over 300,000 members of Veterans and families of the fallen. And, you know, for us, our work is very different than a traditional vso. Our model is flipped. We cannot function as an organization if we don't have veterans leading our programs. So it's a very different model than you see in other veteran service organizations across the country.

[A]

Yeah, it's interesting. So a lot of times people ask me questions about, like, oh, they got a problem with one of their leaders, or they got a problem with one of their students, or they got a problem with one of their team members. And I always say that, for me, leadership itself is a really good tool for leadership. In other words, if I've got problems with you, Ryan, like, you're. You're not stepping up and making things happen, I'll put you in charge of something where you will step up and make things happen, or you're going to learn, and you're going to learn a lot while you're doing that. And so that's kind of the model that you guys have, which is taking veterans and saying, hey, we. We need you to lead. Yeah, talk me through some of the. Because you really have, like, an area that's focused on kids and then an area that's focused on adults.

[C]

Yeah. I mean, so the work we do with youth is. Is. It's funny because it's kind of secondary to originally to what our mission was, but when my mom put our 501C3 paperwork in, it was this blanket mission. And it said, the Travis Manning Foundation's mission is to provide support and resources to our nation's returning veterans and families of the fallen, and to also play a part in helping to create the next generation of leaders. And I was like, how the heck are you going to do that? And I was like, mom, that is way too broad. We got to focus down. And she would always. And when I would say, okay, how are you going to help create the next generation of leaders. She didn't know, like she, she actually did not know how we were going to do that or how she wanted to do that. But she kept talk about who Travis was as an individual and the mentorship that he had along the way. And it was great coaches, it was great teachers, it was great parents. And, and she said this, this is really important and, and we're gonna figure it out. And we did. And we did that by creating a program that over a million youth have gone through where we're teaching kids about character, about how to live lives of character. They listen. A million kids have seen your face, jocko, talking about leadership because you're in the video that we show to these kids. But it's an entire curriculum built on this idea of you need to live a life of character. You need to understand, regardless of whether you join the military or not, how you become a servant leader in your own backyard, in your own community. And who better to teach these principles than our nation's veterans who have taken off the uniform but still have a desire to serve. So yeah, it's two parts, but it's, it's one, right? It's all one, one mission at this point.

[A]

Explain to me or explain to the people, if I've got a school or I've got a kid, I want to get my kids into this program. How does that work?

[C]

I mean we're, we're regionally set up across the country. We have over 70 chapters. You contact us and I will say this is my out. Right now. Our biggest issue as an organization is we can't fulfill the number of schools, sports teams, youth groups that want to bring this program. We need more veterans. So if you're a veteran out there listening, join our mission and become a character does matter mentor, like activate in your community. But that's how you do it. You get in touch with us and, and we work with you to, to set it up.

[A]

And then if my kids or how does it, how does it enter a school? Like, is it okay, there's videos, there's curriculum. Is it books, is it like workbooks? It's how we teaching the kids.

[C]

It's a caveat of different things. So we have schools that do, you know, 12 week, 12 week courses with cohorts of veterans where they're meeting once a week after school. Every all the way down to the most kind of basic is a veteran comes in and gives like a student wide assembly and, and everything in between. The other thing that we do and which has been an offset of this program, which is so cool, is that we now have over 50 student led clubs. So these kids are. There are 50 Travis Manion foundation service clubs across the country. So if you're a kid that like. And we have. And she's sitting right here, she's the one that works with all these kids across the country and gives them the resources and the tool book. But it's not like, oh, go do a service club. It's, you want to do a service club with us? Here's the guidebook. Here's our expectations of what we need you to accomplish if you want to run what we deem to be a Travis Manning foundation service club. But seeing the kids get back out there, it's. It's awesome.

[A]

That is awesome. And then you guys do a bunch of, like, events, right? A lot of running events. So you have what the.

[C]

Yeah, we. Well, we have the Joggin for Frogman. I know you've come to that for us. So we have the Jogman for Frogman race series, and then we have our 911 Heroes Run race series. And so we just closed out the 911 Heroes Run race series. We had over 100 events worldwide, over 60,000 participants. I was at our last one, which was last Sunday in Doylestown, Pennsylvania, where it all began. And, you know, there were 3,000 people out there, and it was. It's just like. It was incredible, you know.

[A]

So do they do jogging for Frogman in other places besides San Diego?

[C]

Yeah, I think we. Yeah, we have. I know we have Virginia Beach. I think we have like, maybe close to 10 locations. And then we do a virtual extortion run with that, too.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, those are. Those are really good events.

[C]

Like, I.

[A]

Like you mentioned, I've been to those quite a few. Quite a few times. It's really good to see the community come out. And it's not like some big pressure situation where, you know, it's just everyone in the community that's out there having a good time.

[C]

Well, and that's what I always say, like our. Our race series, they're not. It's not about the run. Right. It's like galvanizing communities to come together. Right? So that's, you know, people will be like, well, I don't run. I'm like, then come out and stand on the sidewalk, you know, and cheer for the runners that are going by. Like, it's not about the run or the race. Nothing drives me crazier than when you get these, like, you know, these 5K pros and they come out and they're like this. This lonely. Logged is three point, you know, not 3.09. And I'm like, dude, that's not the point. You're. You're missing the whole point of what we're trying to do here.

[A]

Now is your favorite event of the year, the Army Navy tailgate. It is. Is far and away far. Not even close.

[C]

Not even close.

[A]

So you guys do this massive. So in America, we have the Army Navy game, West Point against the Naval Academy. It's a huge deal. It's a huge tradition. It's epic. I'd never been to one until.

[C]

Was that the. I was. I was actually wondering, was the first one you came to with us?

[A]

Yeah, that was the first I ever went to. So it was very cool to see it up close and personal. And I had a friend of mine who was a quarterback and he was in the SEAL teams with me, and his name was Altmead Grizzard. And he. He got killed. And. But so I kind of hurt. You know, I heard about it, but, man, it was awesome to go out to. You see, it's got to be. It's got to be like the epicenter of American patriotism.

[C]

It is. Ever. Well, do you remember the first. It was that. The first game, the first Army Navy game, because you've now been to a few.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

We were walking around Philadelphia afterwards, and, you know, it's all the midshipmen and cadets and everyone's out there, and you couldn't walk. You could not walk 6 inches without getting stopped. Like, it. It was wild. And we're just trying to get to a place to get, like a burger. And we ended up back at the hotel because we're like, there's nowhere to go. Like, this is not gonna. This is not going to work. But, like, it is. That's what I always say. Like, the. The feeling of patriotism you have when you're at this event. There's nothing like it. Nothing like it.

[A]

Yeah. No, it's crazy because I've. I've spoken at the Naval Academy and I've spoken at West Point, and, you know, I hear from people at the West Point, at. People at West Point in the Naval Academy all the time. So when I go out there and see all these cadets in Midshipman, it. It's nuts. Yeah, it's. It's epic. It's awesome. And so you guys do a tailgate or the TMF does a tailgate party. And is that the main party that exists there besides, like, individual human beings having Parties.

[C]

There's other tailgates, but none of them compare to what we do. But I'm going to tell you the backstory on this tailgate, which is. Which is interesting. So this tailgate started when my brother was a midshipman at the Naval Academy. And my dad would do a tailgate with Alex Gorski, our. Our vice chairman of tmf, West Point grad. So Alex went to West Point. My dad, you know, he didn't go to Navy, but Marine, who's got a son at. At Navy. So they started doing these, these tailgates and they would. I mean, and when I say tailgate, it was like 20 of us wherever we parked the car, but we would joke like we're a true Army Navy tailgate because we have army fans and West Point fan or army and Navy fans here. And so after Travis was killed, we continued on. And Travis was at the Army Navy game in 2006. He was there the year before, right before he left in December of 2006. He left the day after Christmas in 2006 for Iraq. So he was at that last tailgate with, you know, where we're drinking Basil Hayden and we're just having fun. And after he was killed, we continued on with that tradition. And as the Travis Manning foundation started to grow, we would like invite people that were part of the foundation. And I remember the one year, Alex's wife, she was like, you know, because we just used to have like coolers and stuff. And she said, I hired a bartender. And I was like, really? And it was this woman named Ivy. And she came with a fold out table and she was making Bloody Marys. And I was like, this is big time. I mean, literally, we took up four parking spots and it just continued to grow and grow and grow. And I remember the one year in Philly, we had gotten pretty large. There were several hundred people there. We. We weren't charging for tickets. You could just walk up. There wasn't any barricades or anything. And Rob Riggle came upon our tailgate. And we had a pickup truck with a microphone. And. And he got up on the back of the pickup truck, he grabbed the microphone, and he was like, this is better than any Catalina wine mixer I've ever been to. And the crowd, like went crazy, you know, and again. And then there was that other moment where I was like, this is insane. Oh, my gosh. And then fast forward to last year. I'm sitting there with a reporter from the Baltimore sun, and he says to me, this isn't A tailgate. This is like a goddamn festival. And I'm like, it is. You know, it's. It was wild. Like, there's thousands of people there and they're waiting. You saw them last year. There were people waiting just to get in. Like, we're there early, and I'm like, look at all those people just waiting for it to open, like. And they've all bought tickets to this event.

[A]

Yeah. So it's. It's truly an epic event. And yeah, it's like Travis Palooza, you know, it's like a full on festival because there's bands and there's like games and all the kinds of sponsors. It's. It's awesome. And. And people, you. You buy tickets to go and interestingly, you don't need tickets to go to the game to go to the tailgate. No, you can just go to the tailgate.

[C]

There's a lot of people in that. In at that tailgate that don't have tickets to the game.

[A]

So people. If people want to come to that, like, there's a bunch of people there. I'm. I'm there hanging out all day, then. I. I do have a ticket to the game.

[C]

You do?

[A]

So I'm going to the game, but I'm hanging out there all day. Are you going this year, Echo? I don't know.

[C]

I just said that to him. I said, I'm like, echo, you gotta come.

[B]

Yeah. How many hours before the game does it start?

[C]

Starts at 10.

[B]

10Am yeah. And then the game is what?

[C]

The game's at like three or four. It's all you can eat and drink.

[A]

You know, it's. It's. It's a little bit of mayhem.

[B]

Yeah. Because tailgating is a thing.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

Even in Hawaii, bro, we tailgate all. But I think you're.

[A]

Wait, what'd you tailgate for in Hawaii?

[B]

In Hawaii, for the, uh, football games.

[A]

When you were on the team.

[B]

No, no, like before or after?

[A]

Before you were on the team. And after you were on the team, you were tailgating.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Right.

[C]

I guarantee it's not. You've never seen it.

[B]

I. I believe that 100%.

[A]

This. This thing is epic. So people can. If you want to come to that, get a ticket. Where's the game this year?

[C]

It's in Baltimore.

[A]

Sick. So, yeah, if you want to, you can go to travismanion.org and get a. Get a ticket, come out and hang out. You also have the gala.

[C]

Mm.

[A]

Which is you could recognize people from the community, recognize the veterans that are doing things, recognize business that have been big supporters and whatnot. So that. That's a really nice event. Elegant event. Like, I. That's a lot. I think that might be. I had to put my uniform on for that event. You did, because I spoke at one of those things.

[C]

You did. You were our guest. Guest of honor a few years ago, and you. You. You came up and you were. The intensity of your. And, you know, it's funny, because you got up there and you started talking at first, and I. I was like, where's he going with this? And the way you brought it all back around, I was like, oh, wow. I'm like, that was pretty awesome.

[A]

Yeah, well, appreciate it. And I think Brian Stan's gonna be there this year. Was he the presenter?

[C]

He's a presenting sponsor. Yeah. Brian's always there. Yeah. So, yeah. Great.

[A]

Yeah. It's wild how all these little things cross over. I mean, Brian Stan having Travis Manion as his corner man in his first fight.

[C]

Well, you know. Yeah. Like, Brian said when he got into mma, like, he was like, my ground game sucked. And I think they were in Quantico. And he says to Travis, like, dude, you got to help me. Travis is a wrestler. He's like. Because the thing about Brian, it was like, you know, if Brian got you, it was one punch, and you were done. But if you got Brian down on. On the ground, he struggled. And so Travis was working with him on, like, grappling, being down, what to do. And, yeah, it was his. In fact, it was. He was his cornerman in his. For his first MMA fight. And then he was also. Travis was there with him. I think they're out in Vegas. And that's when Travis got a call. They were in the hotel room, and Brian's. Brian shared the story publicly and obviously with our family. And they were in the hotel room, and my brother got a call on his phone, and Brian said, you know, we're 20 minutes from walking out. And it was his first, like, big, big fight. And he's like, I could just see looking at your brother's face. I was like, what? What? And he was like, nothing, Nothing. Let's go. And he's like, tell me. He's like, I'm not walking out till you tell me. And Travis was like, JP Blacksmith was killed, and JP Was a Marine Corps officer, football player at Navy. And Brian's like, I went out to that fight, like, just hearing that, you know, one of my good friends had been killed. He's like, I'll never forget that moment. So, yeah.

[A]

Yeah, that's again, that's one of the coolest things about the Army Navy football game. And it's, you know, cliche to say it, but, like, these guys are going to be out there playing hard against each other, but this is literally the, the leaders of our military, you know, that are going to be out fighting together on the battlefield. So it's, it's a really epic event. And yeah, the gala is a really cool thing to. What do people buy tickets to that as?

[C]

Well, we don't sell individual tickets to that. So it's all. I mean, if you're, if you're a company out there and you want to sponsor a table. Yeah. But, yeah, that's a. Just a great night, like thanking the, the big groups and organizations that support us. Jocko Fuel's getting a nice award this year.

[A]

Oh, that's good to hear. Yeah, that's good to hear. Yeah. We did a epic cookies and cream protein in honor of Travis because apparently he ate quite a few Oreos back in the day. Echo, Charles. You know, you got to cut weight sometimes. You got to get little. You got to take a little pleasure sometimes when you're cutting weight all the time in high school. Yeah, that's. Yeah. Jockey feels been a obviously huge support of what you guys do.

[C]

It's.

[A]

It's epic. So I just listed like, all these crazy things that you've got going on from the gala to these programs and all this other stuff. At what point do you like, say to yourself, you know what? I need to write a book. I need to write a kids book, too?

[C]

Well, honestly, I'd like to say that I came up with this idea to write a kids book. I didn't. It was. Some people on my team said, you know, I think there are. I think there are. We were really trying to find a way that we could hit a younger demographic for the work that we do with our youth. You know, right now, our program is designed for kind of high school, junior high, high school. And we had a lot of veterans that were like, I want to talk to my kids third grade class or fourth grade class. And it was like, well, how do you walk in and talk to kids about character, young kids? I've got an 11 year old, you know, I mean, and what did, what did I do? I gave him way of the warrior kid books. I gave him Mikey the Dragon, you know, and I was like, read this. So then it was like, well, maybe if we have this, like, we have this tangible piece that a veteran can walk in and say, sit Down. I'm going to read you a story. And with that story comes some important messages that, that can help them as they grow.

[A]

How did you grab on to the, you know, the, the, the things my brother used to say? Because I want to say, and I'd have to go back and listen to it, but it seemed like those were always kind of just. I mean, clearly the driving motto of the organization is what your brother said and used to say. And so as you were putting the book together, you're thinking about it like, well, I'll just talk about the things that he used to say.

[C]

Yeah. Because I just, I started to think about all these things that everything in here is stuff that I say all the time. And I'm like, God, we could break this down. There's so many. It's like, you know, be big in the little things. If not me, then who? Like, find a friend and everyone. Kindness matters more than, you know, like all of these things are. There was nothing where honestly we had to cut down.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Because we were like, all right, what. What are the five most important ones that we want in this book?

[A]

You didn't have to brainstorm and try and figure stuff out. You're just like, these are the things that he used to say. Here's the kind of most impactful for. For book one, anyways. Yeah, right.

[C]

Love that.

[A]

And then you sat down and wrote it.

[C]

And we sat down and wrote it. Yeah. Yeah. Which I tell you, you've written children's books. It's super hard.

[A]

I.

[C]

It's really hard.

[A]

It was not hard for me.

[C]

So I think, here's what I'm gonna tell you. This is why I think it was hard when, when I did the first iteration of this, it wasn't a children's book.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

So that.

[A]

When I say it was hard, see.

[C]

That was the hard part for me.

[A]

And that's why it wasn't as hard for me. Because I have the mind of like a 12 year old. You know what I mean? For me to like break stuff down and, you know, just be like, oh, yeah, this is what a 12 year old's thinking. It's not. It's a much shorter distance for me to get to 12 than it is.

[C]

It was actually funny because I'd have words in it and John from Jocko Publishing would come back and he's like, yeah, a kid not going to understand that. Like, no.

[A]

So see, he didn't have to do that with me.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

You know, he was just like, what?

[C]

I say it was hard.

[A]

That's like a 10 year old.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, the funny thing is about the kids books for me is when, when people ask me about the kids books, I will be like, dude, these books are awesome. Which I normally like. If you ask me about extreme ownership, they you know, say oh, you know, I really liked your book. And I go thanks, you appreciate it. But you get excited when someone says oh, I read the warrior kid books, they're awesome. I go, yeah dude, they are awesome. And the reason I do that is because when I read them it feels like I didn't write them, you know, because I was like writing them from the mind of a 12 year old. 10 year old.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And so when I'm writing I'm like, dude, this is such a cool book that this kid wrote. And it's like I 100% wrote it. Like I've never had a ghost writer or anything like that. And but, but it's like such a good little character that I put my mind into that it seems like this kid wrote it, you know, and so, so that's why I say it wasn't hard for me because it was like, oh yeah, I just have to like act like a kid. And I've always been, I've always had a mind that related to kids. Like you know, when, when I was a kid I worked at like summer camps and taught stuff to kids and I taught jiu jitsu to all my kids and I had, you know, wild kid Echo. Charles has seen me in action with kids. Like I don't know why I relate to kids because they're cuz I have a immature brain I guess is the reason. Correct, correct. So that's why when I'm writing kids books it's just like I get to be that, that 1012 year old kid. So maybe that's why I enjoyed it so much. Well, regardless of how hard it was for you, I'm glad you put the work in because it, it came out really, really awesome. There's some, I have some commentary, we'll talk a little bit about the writing of the book. But let's get into it a little bit here. So one thing that I loved about is it like it opens up with these pictures of Travis and your family like as a kid. And, and to me it's just so important to do that because hopefully look, we see a picture of a Marine, of a 22 year old, a 23 year old, a 24 year old Marine and it's really easy because they all look the same, they all have the Same uniform on there. It's very easy to forget that that's a person.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

That that's a kid, that that's a son, that that's a brother. It's. It's easy for people to forget that until you see, you know, these. These just awesome pictures that really just. I mean, they're just great pictures of, you know, a kid.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

A young kid who's wearing a camouflage uniform. Okay. But he's also, like, kiss. You know, hugging his mom. Like, all these pictures that. I love that. The book opens with this. This is. This is a person. This is a brother. This is a son. This is a. You know, someone that wanted to. That had hopes and dreams in life and was pursuing them and having a good time. So it's. It's just an amazing way to start off the book.

[C]

I can't take credit for that. I think that was John that. That put that up in the front, and, you know, we knew we wanted pictures, and. And there's a whole other picture collage in the back, too. And that's kind of how I thought it would be. But I love that he put them right up front. So, like, before you even start reading it, you're like, okay, this is.

[A]

This is.

[C]

This is it. This is a kid. This is who I'm going to learn about.

[A]

And I know that kid. You know, like, we all like these. These school pictures. Like, I have a son as well. And like, yeah, you look at my son's picture, it's like, this is. We all know this kid.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, and so it just makes it so relatable. You start off by saying this. In the book, Travis was a person of character. That means that he always tried to do the right thing, even when it was hard. And it's. You know, you kind of mentioned as we were talking earlier, but, you know, you talked about his coaches, you talked about his parents, you talked about, you know, people that were in his life, but, man, he really had a sense of character from an early age. Where do you. Where do you track that to? And, you know, we talked about this when you were on the podcast. Like, you were. You were a little bit more of a wild child. Okay.

[C]

I was wondering where you're gonna go with that.

[A]

I could say you weren't a person.

[C]

I mean, I even kind of put that in this book in some ways. Like, there's a little piece of that where he's down lifting weights, and I'm like, come hang out. You know, it's great outside. Yeah, we. I We talked about this the last time I was on your show, and I talk about it a lot. Like, it's very easy to find a way when someone you love passes, especially someone in the military who you can point back to all these, like, incredible things. And. And I'm always very quick to say that, like, Travis was a real human and he had flaws, but he was different. Like, I'm not putting my brother up on any sort of pedestal post death. Like, I talked about my brother while living the same way I talk about him not being here. I was in awe of my brother from the moment I could understand that he was different than I was and that many people his age were. Like, I saw something. And I don't know what I attribute that to. I attribute that to a lot of times I look at, you know, being raised by a Marine Corps colonel and. And he just. He. He was so attracted to this idea of discipline and setting goals and everything my dad taught him. I was quite the. I just rebelled against all of that. I was like, anything you're going to tell me to do, I'm going to do the opposite, you know? So, you know, part of it was just maybe something inside his DNA. And it's cool because I see other examples of kids like that these days when I'm out and when I'm speaking and I. And there will be a kid that I'm talking to, and I'm like, oh, my God, you're just like, Travis. Like, I see it, and there's some. You. You can't put your finger on it, but you just know they're a little bit different, you know, so, yeah, that's.

[A]

I remember when I was teaching Jiu Jitsu. Teaching kids Jiu Jitsu. Like, you'd get, you know, out of every 50 kids, there'd be a kid. And this is like Jiu Jitsu specific. You'd be like, oh, this kid is going to be really good at Jiu Jitsu. And. And you. And you'd be right. Yeah, like, oh, yeah, they're right. And so you can, you know, it's like, well, you see someone that's like. You see a kid that's, oh, this kid's gonna be a really good wrestler. This kid's gonna be really good at basketball or whatever. And then you get these kids where it's like, oh, they've got. They've got, like, a leadership potential.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

That. They're gonna be. They're gonna have some inherent qualities that are going to be good for leadership and, like, for Travis, like, there's an inherent. And we'll get into it, but like an inherent humanity in him.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

That you're like, oh, this kid is different.

[C]

That's such a good way to put it. And frankly, you know, I talk about the wild child in me growing up now, I am. I parent exactly like my dad did, which is. I mean, sometimes I catch myself and I'm like, oh, my God, I am my father's daughter. And it's wild. And I ended up getting a kid just like her, just like my brother, you know, I mean, my oldest is a spitting image, not physically, but of who he was and how he. His work ethic and all of that. So, yeah.

[A]

Awesome. I'm gonna fast forward a little bit in the book here. One day, Travis and his fellow Marines were on patrol in Iraq. While driving around to see if anyone needed their help, they were attacked by the enemy. As the enemy attacked, the Marines fought back. With his team under fire, Travis bravely ran into the middle of the ca chaos to help those injured in the fight. One by one, he pulled them away from danger. In the end, each one of them escaped to safety, except for Travis. He had been shot while saving his teammates and died because of his injury. So now this is. This is a section where, you know, going back to what you said earlier, it was hard to write this book right here. We. Here we take this heroic and courageous actions of your brother, and we put him into. What is it, like, seven sentences.

[C]

This was a hard part to write.

[A]

Yeah, this. So speaking of, you know, things being hard to do, I did a TED Talk one time, and for the TED Talk, you have. I think it's 12 minutes. Right. And so part of the TED talk, I wanted to explain how I had been in charge of an operation and there was. An Iraqi soldier was killed. One of my guys was wounded. Several more Iraqi soldiers were wounded. There was. It was chaos and mayhem. And so the first, like, draft I did of this just to explain what happened was like a 15 minute talk.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And I had to take all that and put it down into, like, three sentences of what had happened. And, you know, actually, in your dad's book, it's. It's like chapters. Chapters. It's like a long, detailed explanation. And when you listen to it, man. And what's really good about that in that book is you start to recognize, like, oh, Travis knew what was going on. Travis was consciously making decisions beyond like, oh, my friend needs help right now. I'm gonna go get him. No, it's like oh, my friend needs help right now. I'm gonna go get him. I understand the threat. That wonder. Oh, now I'm gonna go and. And maneuver again. Go out into fire again. Like he had to, consciously. So it's really good to hear all that detail. Just like, when I had this, because the thing I talk about in the TED talk was a. Was a fratricide. It was a blue and blue. It's a friendly fire situation. And so it's good to understand all those details. And here you have to write this kid's book, and you're going to take all those heroic details and you put them into. One by one, he pulled them away from danger. That's. That's. That's what he did. Heroic. And that's what you put into. And I realized as I was reading the book is that's part of the story, but it's not the most important part of the story.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And so for you to explain what happened to kids and go, oh, okay, I get it. But truly, his heroic actions that day, obviously incredible and. And courageous and heroic in. In every sense of the word, but that's one little moment in his life where his, you know, his personality and his character was displayed.

[C]

Yeah. I mean, I think that was the culmination of everything he did in his life. Like, I always say that the decisions Travis made that day were because of a series of small decisions that he made over the course of his life.

[A]

Yeah. You. Then you end up saying this. Travis may not be with us today, but I will always remember the example he set for me and his fellow Marines. He understood the importance of character, the value of leadership, and the power of bravery. And you got the little measuring wall here.

[C]

My dad used to.

[A]

You still got that?

[C]

Well, I'm in a different house. I have it with my kids. But, yeah, that was like, have you grown? You know, Ryan, you're a. Run. Forget it. Travis, you know, get over here. Let's keep measuring.

[A]

Yeah, I used to have that, too.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And it was. It's cool. I. And have a new house, you know, so we don't have that wall anymore. Except for my old. My youngest daughter still has some marks, you know, because when we got the new house, she was still growing.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

But, yeah, it's very cool to have that, to have those things. If you have a house, man, measure your kids on the wall, mess up the paint, leave those marks there. The way Travis lived his life has taught me so much. Here are the five most important lessons I've learned from him. So again, this is, you know, you broke down these lessons that you learned. You picked the top five, at least the top five fitting for this first book. The first one is my brother used to say, find your Brendan. And this is, you know, a reference to Brendan Looney, who I mentioned earlier. And again, the Brothers Forever book that your dad wrote is, you know, explains this incredible story about your brother and Brendan Looney, who both went to Naval Academy, were incredible friends at the Naval Academy, and they. They were both killed in combat, one in Iraq and one in Afghanistan, and they're buried together in Arlington Cemetery, which is. Which is a touching story and a sad story, but this isn't meant in a sad way at all. This is like, find your friends. Yeah, talk to me about it.

[C]

So find your Brendan. You know, and again, my dad tells a lot of the stories in here, most specifically the bike ride story. That's a real story through the streets of Annapolis, where they raced on bikes, and it was this hardcore competition, and. But it was this idea that, you know, when Travis used to think about friendship, friendship was more than just finding someone that was fun to hang out with. Friendship was about finding people that pushed you to be the best version of yourself. Right. And so the. The. The message here is a little bit about the healthy competition they shared. And. And. But again, it was like Travis looked for people in his life that weren't going to bring him down, but were going to make him rise. And, you know, Brendan was a real big part of that and a big person for him in that way. And so, you know, you want. Again, if we get back to my wild child days, I never thought about friends like that. I thought about friends in terms of, like, who threw the best parties, who could get the beer the quickest. You know, it was like, you don't. Sometimes you don't think about when you're building relationships and how important relationships matter and how important the people we surround ourselves with matter in terms of who we're going to become. And that was something Travis knew very early on.

[A]

Yeah. You ever. You ever heard the advice that, like, the person you marry, like your spouse is, like, the most important decision you're gonna make in your life? But that's to your point. It's not just about, like, your spouse.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Who are you hanging out on with? And the other thing I was thinking of is if you're. If you're looking for friends that are gonna push you to make you better.

[C]

You'Ll find them 100%.

[A]

And if you're looking for Friends that are gonna drag you down and have a negative impact on your life, you'll find them too. And by the way, both those groups are looking for you.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, both of those groups are looking for you. Both groups. Anyone that is, like, trying to step up and trying to do good things with their life, they're looking for other people to come with them.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And help them and push them. And people that are looking to do negative things, they're looking for companions as well. Misery loves company. Right. And they're looking to make those things happen as well. So the kind of friends that you're looking for, you will find.

[C]

Yeah. And isn't there the. I'm going to misquote it, but there's like, you know, you are the sum of the, like the five people you hang out with the most. So choose wisely, you know?

[A]

Yes, indeed. Yep. Awesome. So that's. The first one is find your. Your Brendan. The second one is kindness matters more than you know. And. And you kind of go through the story. There's a guy called Sam in the book. And actually that's. That's his real name. Right.

[C]

Because he had not his role.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

There's a guy named who's called Sam in the book. And he's, you know, the way you describe is the opposite of Travis in every way. So Travis is confident, outgoing. Sam is quiet and reserved. Travis is tall and athletic. Sam was short and awkward. Travis well known and popular. Sam wasn't even noticed by many of his classmates. But despite all this, Travis, you know, becomes friends with him and includes him with things and is. Is freaking nice to him.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And then after Travis died, your parents got a letter from this, this Sam character that's explained, like, how he was a good human being and was his friend.

[C]

Yeah. And how much Travis's friendship, like, helped him through high school. And fun fact, on Sunday at the Doylestown Heroes Run, I was walking to the start line and there was Sam and he was standing there with his two kids. And I was along the. I ran the race with my dad. And again, his name is not Sam. But I said to my dad, I said, dad, you'll never guess who I saw. And I told him and he was like, oh, that's so great. And he was there with his two kids running the. The 911 heroes run. But, you know, it's this idea. You don't thinking about who you hang out with and who you choose. It's not about choosing like all the alphas or like the top of class. Right. It's like, who are you going to. They're. Travis recognized something in this guy that he recognized that he was. I mean, and he wasn't getting necessarily bullied, but he just wasn't part of it. Like, he wasn't brought in. And Travis was. You said the word. Like, the humanity in him. My dad and I. I had my dad on for Memorial Day last year to talk about Memorial Day, on the resilient life. And we were talking about just the compassionate side of Travis, and he just. He just possessed so much compassion. And I told the story of one day we came out, we were living in Virginia, and came outside, and a bird's nest had fallen out of a tree, and the birds had already hatched, and they were dead. And the mother bird kept flying around, and there were these, like, four dead little baby birds. And he was so affected by these birds. And, I mean, he was like, 8, 9 years old, and he had a funeral for the birds, and he invited all the kids in the neighborhood, and he was crying at the funeral that he had for these birds. And so he just had this really compassionate side to him. And, you know, and I think he saw something in, like, hey, I'm gonna. I'm gonna be friends with this kid, and I'm gonna make sure that he is invited to everything. And, you know, because no one else was doing it, and it's very easy to overlook that kid that doesn't get included. You know, not necessarily getting picked on, but just, like, not part of the group. Right.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. It also speaks to, like, being a leader and just being a very confident in who you are type of individual, because, you know, when kids are in. Whether they're in high school or whether in middle school. Right. Like, being popular and being cool, you don't want to be seen doing things that are uncool. So the last thing I'm going to do is like, oh, everyone's. You know, maybe they're not making fun of Sam, but, you know, I'm not going to go out of my way to go and get with the kid that's kind of awkward and weird.

[C]

It's like, no, Physically, Sam and Travis looked very different in high school, I'll put it that way. You know, so.

[A]

And Travis just was like, you know, I don't care what you guys say about me. Yeah, I'm going to go hang out with Sam. It's all good.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, supreme confidence and knowing who you.

[C]

Are.

[A]

And just the. The importance of being nice to other human beings.

[C]

I mean, that's That's. That's basically it. Just be nice, you know, Be nice.

[A]

To other human beings. Yeah, I know you always. There was an advertisement that was on. I forget what it was for a long. A few years ago, but it was like people walking through the world, and, you know, the other. You know, someone's walking, they're looking as they're looking at other people, like their. Their problems were above their head. You know, it's kind of like saying, like, oh, you know, husband's cheating on her, kid is sick with, you know, this disease. And, you know, maybe if you can try and picture what's going on in other people's worlds a little bit and recognize how hard people have it in the world. I mean, everyone is going through something.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And, you know, you don't really need to add to that.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

By being a jerk to them. And if you can, you know, treat people with a little kindness, be nice to them, it's gonna go a long way.

[C]

Well, yeah. And. And just to. To finish up on that, you know, we knew Sam in high school. We knew Trap. We had no idea until Sam sent that letter after Travis died what that friendship meant to him, you know, and. And I, I, I'll never. And we received thousands of cards and letters like that one. Like, hit hard. It hit hard.

[A]

Number three. Dream big and work hard to get there. So, again, this is a. This is a wild thing to see in a young person. Travis had goals.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And he literally wrote those goals down. Wrote him on a beam in the basement.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

This is what I'm gonna do. This is what I'm gonna make happen. And then, like, focused on those goals and made them happen. And you saw that.

[C]

I saw it. I saw the words on the beam. I knew what he was trying to do. Yeah.

[A]

Was it going to. Becoming a national champ in wrestling in high school or something like that? What was his goals?

[C]

It was. It was. It was a GPA. I think he wanted, like a 35 or 3. 6 GPA.

[A]

Who does that?

[C]

Yeah. It was being all American wrestler. It was All American wrestler. And. And then he had other things that were, like, more mundane. You know, bench press, X amount. Like, you know, I mean, there was a bunch of stuff. He just wrote them down.

[A]

We had probably three wheels. Echo. Three wheels. Yeah.

[C]

I mean, we had an unfinished basement, and we had, you know, my dad had, like, a bench press that. And, you know, and he just went down there. There was. There was nothing special about what he was doing in that basement. And the equipment he had or anything like that.

[A]

Yeah, really good. It's actually good advice, you know, to kids. Like, when your kids. When kids see this and they go, oh, maybe I'll write down my goals as well. Because when you write things down and you put them in front of you, it's like, it's real. It becomes real.

[C]

Well, it's funny because, you know, I just had Dave Burke on, and when I read his book, and. And the first thing I like highlighted, underlined, was when he said to his mom, I want to be a top gunpowder. And she goes, well, why can't it be you? You know? And I was like, that's like. I think. I mean, listen, I think adults do it, too. But even kids like, you look at things as unachievable, right? As unachievable. When Travis wrote down he wanted to be an all American wrestler, he was a freshman in high school, and he weighed 145 pounds. When he became an all American wrestler, He was wrestling 189. You know, like, you. If. And if you would have said, hey, you're going to be an all American Wrestler Wrestling 189, and have an undefeated season, that seems unachievable, right? But why couldn't it be him? Somebody could do it. Anybody. Somebody had to do it, right?

[A]

Yeah. And it's interesting, too, because Dave Burke, in his book, he kind of lines out the methodical approach that he took to become a Marine Corps fighter pilot.

[C]

We had this long conversation. I'm like, I get it. Like, I watch someone do everything you said. Like, it was like, you got to do this, and once you accomplish this, then you do. Then you do the next thing, and you keep working through those wickets.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And I'm like, that's exactly what Travis did throughout his entire lifetime. He just knocked down wickets. It was like, check. All right, what's next? Because this is where I got to go to get to this next goal.

[A]

That must have been bizarre when you. When your brother left the Naval Academy after what is freshman semester, was it the first semester?

[C]

First semester. And it was. It was Christmas. He did not go back after Christmas. And, you know, I. I used to take. Have a lot of guilt on that, because, listen, I played a large, large role as I. As I talk about, you know, Travis and how I looked up to him. Travis also looked up to me. Like, Travis, I think, envied a little bit of my laissez faire approach to life and how I was just in it for the fun. Like. And I think in some ways, like, he would be like, God, like, you know, there. There would be times. And then you get into this environment at the Naval Academy, and it's so rigid, and it's so structured. And frankly, you know, there was a little bit of, like, he wasn't necessarily seeing everyone there, all of the. The midshipmen, like, in the same mindset that he was, you know, and there were. There were. There were things that he would say to me about, like, he didn't love every midshipman there. It's just a fact, of course, you know, and he would have conversations with me about kind of. I. I remember what it was, was a night where there was a bunch of midshipmen that bought. Went to the drugstore and bought Robitussin, and they bought multiple bottles of Robitussin.

[A]

Well, is that. Is that, like, to get drunk or something?

[C]

Yeah. And they did these things called robo trips, where they just chugged the whole bottle of Robitussin so they could get a high. And he was. He called me and he was like, this is crazy. Like, this is crazy that I'm sitting here watching kids in a dorm room just drinking bottles of Robitussin. He's like, I don't know if this is where I want to be. And, you know, it wasn't that. He wasn't like, I don't want to start. He's like, I can go. I can go anywhere and be a Marine, right? I can go do ROTC somewhere. And I was like, hell, yeah, you can. And so I would talk to him every night for weeks between Thanksgiving and Christmas, and I'd be like, dude, just leave. I'm in Philadelphia. You go to school in Philadelphia, we'll have the best time ever, the best time of our lives in college, you know.

[A]

Did you say anything to your dad?

[C]

No. I told him after the words that, you know, that I know, and. And, you know, and then he. He kind of just stunned my dad and was like, I don't want to be here. And my dad said, like, you can't. And I know it now, having a child at Navy, like, if they don't want to be there, it's. You can't force it. You can't force a kid to be at a service academy. And so my dad said, you want to leave? Then figure it out. Get a job. Find a place to go to school. I'm not helping you figure it out. And so he went and he talked to. Went to Drexel, walked on, because he was like, oh, spring semester, wrestling season's over. Walked on to the men's lacrosse team. Started as a freshman on the men's lacrosse team at Drexel. And yeah, so he's got. He's two time, you know, played two sports, dual sport. And. And he had my guitar at Drexel. He was at a party, I think I've talked to you, that he liked to play the guitar a little bit. Like, very unaccomplished, but he liked it. And his. My guitar was stolen at a party. And so, because I always, like, Travis was very analytical. It was like, there was this one thing that, like, opened up everything for him. And he said, your guitar was stolen? I'm really sorry. I'm gonna buy you a new one. He goes, but these aren't my people. Like, these were all my friends at this party. And one of them stole your guitar. And he was like, I made the wrong decision. And I'm like, you're screwed. Yeah, I'm like, you're screwed. And he went back to my dad and said, I screwed up. Like, I want to go back to Navy. My dad's like, I'm not helping you. And he said, I'm not helping you. And my dad did drive him back to Navy, and he sat down with the senior marine who we just recently saw, and he said, you know, the reason that I even considered letting your son back into Navy is because you didn't walk in that door with him because you made him go in by himself. And he got back in redid plebe year.

[A]

How has. How many times has that happened in the history of the.

[C]

I don't know, but not a lot.

[A]

I can not be a lot. Not a brother leaves and then gets let back in.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

That's amazing. So. But awesome. Okay. Sorry.

[C]

Yeah, no. So he got back in. Had to redo plebe year. But I think it was the best thing that could have ever happened for him because it left no question that he was where he was supposed to be. And once he got back there, he was so locked in, like, ridiculous.

[A]

Yeah, it's. I did not recognize until today, because even talking to you last time, talking to your dad, I never made the connection, which it makes sense now of.

[B]

Of him.

[A]

Like, this is my first time hearing the Robitussen story. Right. But I could see someone with high ideals like Travis. This is the connection I didn't make. You know, I thought, oh, well, it was like, a little bit, you know, like, okay, don't get to wrestling off people yelling at me. Like, this is stupid. It's kind of like. But it was more a. There's an ideal that I have that Travis has in his head of what these people should be like. They don't meet that ideal. And he's like, what am I even doing here?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Which I did not make that connection until today. So now that. Now it makes more sense to me. And it also makes more sense to me that once he left and he gets out into the civilian world, he's like, wait a second. I thought the robot was bad. These people are liars and thieves.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And then. And now you could see his dedication is through the roof. Because when he goes back to the Naval Academy, understands what he had walked away from, understand the miracle that it took to get back there, and he obviously continues on and does incredible things. Yeah. But that's a little bit of a. Of like a. A vector off of the idea of dream big and work hard. That didn't. Didn't make sense to me until now. Now I understand it.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. So that's number three. Dream. Dream big and work hard to get there, man. If you can teach your kids that, you will be in a really, really good spot. Next one. Number four. Be big in the little things. So you hear that and. Or you don't hear it. You say, one day I walked past Travis's room and saw him painting. Be big in the little things in green paint on his wall. What does it mean? I asked. What little things Big How? I'll tell you what he said. Stick with me. This week, we're going to do a lot of little things together. When we're done, this will make sense. Did you ever Google this expression and see where it came from?

[C]

I haven't. Did you?

[A]

No, I didn't. I didn't think of Googling it until right now. Because I wonder if he heard of it or like, where.

[C]

No, I. I never have. That's. That's. We'll have to do that.

[A]

Yeah. Because it's of. You know, it's kind of a. It's a. It's a artistic little statement.

[C]

Right.

[A]

Be big in the little things. That's a kind of a cool way of saying. It's a catchy little phrase.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So again, for him to have made this up and then. Was he just painting on his wall? That's just what's happening.

[C]

Yeah. You know, wrote on beams painted on walls, like, that's what you do. Right.

[A]

In green paint.

[C]

In green paint. Because of the eagles. Come on. That's why it was green.

[A]

Okay, well, now. Now Everything comes together. So how old are you when this is happening?

[C]

Like, junior high. Ish. Yeah.

[A]

So now you kind of hang with him for a week. Starts off, you know, he wakes up early in the morning, you wake up with him. You make breakfast for your parents. Next thing you do is, you know, a couple, you know, you go to the library after school, you get all your homework done and study hard and all that stuff. You guys go to a basketball game and instead of, like, celebrating, celebrating when everyone's done and leaving and high fiving, you guys clean up again. This is in junior high. And then, you know, he gathers up some stuff that he doesn't really need and takes him to a veterans home and donates these things. And this is the things that he's doing.

[C]

Yeah. He was always trying to teach me little lessons. Like, there I can. When I think about, like, Travis in my head, I think about him being like. Like, come on, Ryan. Like, that's kind of how he was with me. Like, why don't you try this? Like, why don't you. Why don't you try and do this for a week? Or why don't you. Why don't you think about it this way? You know, I can hear him. Like, come on, Ryan. So, yeah, so that was his. That was him teaching me how to be big in the little things.

[A]

Yeah. And, you know, you've. You obviously you figured out and there's a saying in this. In. I first heard it in the SEAL teams. I don't know if it's from the SEAL teams, but it's similar. It's how you do anything is how you do everything. Have you ever heard that before?

[C]

No, but, yeah, very similar.

[A]

Very similar. And it's because, you know, oh, the way that I fold my clothes is kind of the way I'm going to take care of my gear is kind of the way I'm going to behave.

[C]

Exactly. Like. Well, and that was the thing. So after Travis died, it was my uncle who actually said. He said, you know, Travis was all about being big in the little things. And because he was big in the little things, it made him even bigger in the big things, in the big moments, when it counted. I. E. April 29, 2007. You know.

[A]

All right, the last thing. And clearly this is the driving force. My brother used to say, if not me, then who? And this is what I started the podcast with. This is the story that you tell in your book. It's in this book, it's in your dad's book, and it really is Just a. A way to position yourself in the world.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Where you will do the right thing, the good thing. When it's really easy to look around and say, well, you know, I'm not going to do the right thing. I'm not going to take action. And if you ask yourself, if not me, then who, it's gonna Change your attitude 100%.

[C]

Yeah. And, you know, it's like when Travis said that, you know, I wasn't there when he actually said it. It was at a Philadelphia Eagles game. And he. And he said those five words, and. And then, you know, it's this, like, moment of reflection where you look back over the course of his life, and it's. And it's those five words. They. They. Those were. That was the first time anybody heard him say it. But those five words were what he lived by every single day. And, you know, you can make them real big and profound and what they mean, or you can also, like you said, you can dumb it down to like, how am I going to have an if not me, then who moment today? No matter how small that is. Right. And then those if not me, then who moments, they start to build up, you know?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. And this is something your dad pointed out a bunch with. With. You know, he was first, you know, thinking about writing about Travis, and then when Brendan died, he added Brendan. But then it was also like, hey, this is. This is like, what our service men and women do. Like, this is what they're doing. They're all saying this. And this is like a universal.

[C]

Well, yeah, And. And I've said that all. I'm like, those are the five words Travis spoke. But those five words represent this entire generation of men and women who have volunteered to step up and serve. Like, those five words are not unique to Travis Manion, you know.

[A]

Well, he certainly took them to the next level in his life. So that's the. Those words are the driving force, you know, behind the Travis Manion Foundation. They're. They're written everywhere. They're said all the time, which is just. Just epic. So much of his life has become legacy. Right. And I've never really thought about the way that what. The way that he lived his life has translated into this legacy that he has left behind, which is now being transformed into and. And transmuted into all these people and all these kids and all these veterans everywhere. Just so powerful to see.

[C]

I had a conversation with someone recently, and I was talking about just, like, missing my brother, and, like, I would do anything to have him here. And I don't care about the legacy he's left, and I don't care about the hundreds of thousands of people that have been helped as a result of it. Like, selfishly, he's my brother, and I want him here with me in San Diego at his favorite burrito shop. You know, like, that's, That's. And. And he said to me that your brother wouldn't want to be here knowing the impact that his legacy has left. I can tell you right now, he's like, I didn't know your brother, but I knew your brother. And your brother would. Would, Would not trade coming back to. For the impact that. That his name and his story has. Has created. And I thought about that, you know, and at the end of the day, it's probably true.

[A]

Yeah, it's one of those harsh realities, you have to admit.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, yeah, he's had just such a massive impact. What else do we have going on right now?

[C]

Well, we're. I mean, we're gearing up for Army Navy. We're. We're almost there. So, you know, we. We know our team is going to win. Our team Navy.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, Navy.

[C]

That's right. Listen, you know.

[A]

Yeah. So you're. You've got a funny look on your face. You're making like you busted me for something.

[B]

So.

[A]

As is, if anyone heard me talk about the Army Navy game or the Army Marine Corps. Air Force Navy in general. Like, I truly. I cannot say anything negative about the other armed services. You know, first of all, because I worked so closely with the army and the Marine Corps in my career, and in. In the battle of Ramadi, like, it was one team, one fight. And those. The army soldiers and Marines truly would risk their lives to rescue my guys. And they did that.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Over and over again. You know, even, you know, you had Dave Burke on your podcast. Like, Dave Burke, you know, he lost one of his Marines, Corporal Chris Leon. Like, they were on a rooftop of a combat outpost that we had secured. Like, I don't know if it was, you know, quite recently before that. Like, it was my guys up there, and we left and, you know, Chris moves up in a position, they're doing what we're doing their job, and he gets killed. Like, this was such a unified fight. And so I can't. I can't. I just can't bring myself to say anything negative about.

[C]

I'm not saying anything negative. I'm just saying.

[A]

My point. My point in saying all this is that when people ask me, like, who I'm rooting for. I'm always very diplomatic, you know, and I'm like, hey, America's gonna win. Right? But then when we were talking beforehand, you and Echo busted me saying, like, well, how's our team looking this. This year? Meaning, like the Navy team, Because that's. That's our team. Because I wasn't. I was in the Navy. Like, we can't deny that fact. So that's what I said. I said what I said. Do I view the Navy as my team? Well, I. I guess. Yeah, of course I do. I was in the Navy for 20 years, so I do view it as my team. But I truly do. I truly do support both teams and hope it's an awesome game.

[C]

As do I. Yeah.

[A]

So that's what we're gearing up for.

[C]

That's where, I mean, yeah, from a, from a fun event perspective, but, you know, the work of the Travis Manning foundation is so much more than an Army Navy tailgate. I think that's important to note out. Like, we are making sure, like, at the forefront of everything we do is making sure that we're giving veterans continued purpose when they're taking off the uniform, which in turn helps their mental health, which in turn helps plays a role in the incredible suicide epidemic that we have facing our veterans. So, like, we have real important work that we're doing at tmf. We have a lot of fun stuff, but at the end of the day, there is no veteran that is going to come to the Travis Manion foundation and not be positively impacted by the programming and the opportunities that we provide.

[A]

Yeah, it's. It's just outstanding. And what are you seeing in terms of, like, the wars are over, you know what I mean? Like, now we have people that are getting out and, you know, they might not have served in combat. I was thinking about it today. You know, it's. It's been like you could do a four. You could have done a four year hitch right now and not get like the, you know, not be in a wartime scenario at all.

[C]

I think those service members deal with their own set of challenges as a result of that.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

As crazy as it is, you know.

[A]

So incredible work that you guys are doing across the front. Where can people find. Where can people find you guys? So it's travismanion.org Yep. It is on Instagram at Travis Manion Foundation. Twitter X and YouTube is @TM Foundation. And then, dude, Facebook is Travis Manion Foundation. And then for you, you can be [e-mail] and then you're on Instagram and Twitter. X at R Manion.

[C]

That's correct.

[A]

Did I get everything right?

[C]

You got it.

[A]

This book. It. By the time this podcast comes out, this book will be available for order on Amazon.

[C]

It'll be available for pre sale and then published date is November 24th.

[A]

November 24th.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So it'll be out at the game when we're there.

[C]

It'll be out at the game.

[A]

Are you gonna bring copies?

[C]

Absolutely. We'll be selling it at the game.

[A]

Okay, There we go. Rock and roll.

[C]

For sure.

[A]

Awesome stuff. Awesome to see you. Echo. Charles, you got any questions?

[B]

No questions. But I do have to mention that the, the shirts, I forget if you or your dad gave them to me. The TMF shirts.

[C]

Yeah, those.

[B]

I wear those shirt. Those are probably the highest frequency shirts in my rotation.

[C]

What if you still have shirts that my dad or I gave you? I mean the last time I was on this podcast was like years and years ago. So we need to get you some new gear because we've got some good gear.

[B]

I respect it and I'm going to accept it. But I will say that these current shirts that I have are still 100% capability right now and they're in the rotation. But more importantly on the back it says if not me, then who? So my kids always like read it when I walk by or whatever and they'll say that for, from time to time.

[C]

I love that.

[B]

Thanks for that influence there.

[C]

Love it.

[A]

That's awesome.

[B]

Good to see you again.

[C]

You too.

[A]

Brian. Any closing thoughts?

[C]

No. I mean, I think at the end of the day, I love that Jocko Publishing has given us this opportunity to put this children's book out. We didn't, we didn't really mention that. This, this book is a product of Jocko Publishing. So we're excited to be part of, of the incredible leadership books for, for both adults and kids. And I'm just excited for parents and educators and our youth to get their hands on a copy.

[A]

Yeah, you and me both. And it's, you know, it's going to be right up there and people are going to learn from it, people are going to read from it. And I'll tell you from my personal experience, as awesome as it is to have, you know, adult come up to me and say, hey, thanks for your book. I really helped me, you know, get promoted or save my marriage or whatever they went through, that's always awesome. But having a little kid come up to you and say I did my first pull up or, you know, for this for this, it's going to be, you know, I got an A in this class, and, you know, I wrote my goals down. There's. There's truly no better reward than knowing that your brother's going to have an impact on. On a whole nother generation. So thanks for writing the book as an honor to be able to publish it and honor to be able to help out as much as we can with what you. You guys are doing, because it's all just awesome. So thanks for joining us once again. Thanks for the service, thanks for the sacrifice of your family, and truly thanks for what you're continuing to do today to help out our veterans, their families, and this next generation of Americans with your brother's principles.

[C]

Thank you.

[A]

And with that, Ryan Manion has left the building and left us with some awesome lessons learned, some awesome approaches to life, and, you know, going back, and I was reviewing some of those old podcasts that I did with Ryan and her dad, and it's interesting and factual that your mental state is tied to your physical state. And Travis obviously knew that. And so if you want to have a good mental state, you got to get a good physical state, which means you're training, which means you're lifting, working out, running, sprinting, training, the jiu jitsu. If you're doing that, you need some. Well, quite frankly, you need some fuel. We strongly recommend Jocko fuel. Hey, check out jockofuel.com. get yourself some creatine. Get your. You on the creatine. What are you on right now? How many grams a day?

[B]

You just got the repack. Restock.

[A]

What do you want? Talk to me. 10. Okay. I'm now currently at this time at 15 grams.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And I might be going 20.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Because it's not a big stretch for me to go two in the morning. Two. Two scoops in the morning, two scoops at night. Right now I'm doing one scoop in the morning, two scoops at night.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Not a big stretch for me to just add up because everyone's getting into the creatine. And let's face it, when you take extra creatine, you feel extra good, you feel stronger, your cognitive abilities increase. So good across the board. The other thing is we have the collagen and colostrum combo out right now. And it's plain. It's plain. No taste, right? But if you put in your greens, you're getting that double activity. It's like a streamlined activity, extra protein. You're getting the collagen. Collagen, you're getting the colostrum, you're getting that joint health and you're getting the green activity. So that's a good one to give a shot at. My. My oldest daughter came up with that system and it seems to be working quite well.

[B]

I just added it to my current system. My hydrate, creatine. Boom.

[A]

Collagen right in there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

No factor.

[B]

Boom. Yeah. It. It does not. It does affect the texture slightly, but that's not a factor at all.

[A]

My wife is taking it with milk.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So she has. She's got her own. She's got her own little world worked out where she's doing some kind of coffee, tea, milk thing now with the collagen colostrum in it.

[B]

So interestingly, my wife knew about the collagen.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Knew about the whole collagen thing.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So she jumped right in the game.

[B]

Yes. Which was weird. I was like, oh, yeah, cool. There's this, this new thing, this new product, collagen or whatever. She kind of lit up because, let's face it, when I was like, yeah, mocha's rtds now. She's like, cool and just kept living her life, you know. But the collagen, what up? So she already knew it. Knew about it. You mentioned your wife. So I'm like, oh, yeah. It was interesting because collagen is more of a universally like, ex. Not accepted, but a taken like thing. You don't have to be hardcore into lifting, as I consider myself to be from time to time.

[A]

Not all of them. Time check. Well, all this stuff, including hydrate, including mok protein, including cookies and cream, milk protein, by the way, you can get it all. You can get [e-mail] you can also get it a bunch of different stores out there. You can check Hy vee, You can check Walmart. You can check. I mean, really Wawa h e b meijer. Like, they're just wearing so many Harris Teeter dash stores. Like there's so many places that we're at right now, military gnc. Like check these places out and you can, you can get yourself some Jocko fuel. Also check out origin USA.com and we got some products coming out right now. Bonded fleece jacket. It's like, it's like a hoodie that's wind and waterproof, water resistant. You can't say proof because we don't have tape seams on it. But it's really, really legit. Next level up, like you're. You want to be next level, prepare preparedness for life. Sure. Get that next level up, get yourself that bonded. It's like a jacket. And then also the mo. Have you seen the Moab jacket yet?

[B]

I've seen pictures of it, yeah.

[A]

Well, I have the Moab jacket. I just ordered another one. I have a gray one, but I'm getting like the kind of. What is it? Like a rust colored type one, Brownish color, type one.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

So these are good to go. And look, the good thing about them is, like, there's so many times of year that you can wear that, like anytime it gets. I'm gonna use a word right now, brisk. Anytime it gets a little brisk. Yeah, you know, you're good. And you're good for like, from brisk all the way up to like, it's really cold, getting cold. Cold, you're good. But really cold. You'll be like, all right. I didn't know I need to get a hoodie underneath it or something like that. But it's solid, so. Origin USA 100 made in America. All of it from the, from the cotton. Yeah, that's in the materials. The zippers, the buttons, all of it.

[B]

Which, which is saying a lot though, because let's face it, sometimes you can kind of sidestep some of those elements and be like, oh, wait, the cotton, the this, the that is not made in America. But since at this point of production, they started to make the rest of it in America, we can, boom. We can, you know, out the gate.

[A]

Taking Chinese made pieces and sewing them together in America does not make something American made. It makes it a fugazi, a fake. So don't buy into the fugazi stuff. The fugazi stuff. Get yourself some stuff from origin USA.com. 100% made in America. American hands. Put. Put your money back into our economy here in America. Help our communities rebuild. Help our nation remain free. Don't help the growth of communism and slave labor. Don't do it. Don't do it.

[B]

Also, too. I know people are wondering about Jocko store. Like, when is the. I realize a lot of this stuff is like 10 years old. Old. Like this design implemented 10 years ago. And so I get it. I get it. And some people, they want to, hey, well, what about some new stuff? Don't worry, I got you. By the end of the year, we're gonna have all new stuff on there.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And then look at that one from time to time or more often, we're gonna have more and more new stuff. All on jocastor, choco store.com.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Speaking of new stuff, often we have A thing called the Shirt Locker. If you don't know, I know some people know already. Some people are down for the cause already. But if you're not, Shirt Locker subscription scenario. New shirt, new design, all kinds of designs relevant to the path for sure, but new design every month. People seem to like that one. So check that one out. Go on the store, go on the the website, click Shirt Locker. You can see other designs. Just see what it's all about. Because it's like I said, slightly different vibe if you want to look at that one. But anyway, yeah, it's all there.

[A]

Jocko store.com check if you need a book. Well, I've written a bunch of books, which is cool, but also Dave Burke new book, need to lead. Check that book out. And then obviously we've got things my Brother used to say, written by Ryan Mannion, amazing book for look, get it for your kids, get it for your neighbors, get it for the kids across the street, get it to the classroom, give it to the library, get this book out there to the world. It's going to help out so many people. Echelonfront.com, we have a leadership consulting company. We solve problems through leadership. So if you need help inside your organization, go to echelonfront.com also we have events. The next big event that we have, I believe is the Muster. It is going to sell out. So if you want to come, go to echelonfront.com and register. And if you can't go to an event but you want to learn the skills of leadership, check out Extreme ownership dot com. It's where we teach the skills of leadership in an online environment. And if you want to help service members, active and retired, you want to help their families, want to help Gold Star families, Check out Mark Lee's mom, Mom Alicia's got a charity organization which is amazing. If you want to donate or you want to get involved, go to America's mighty warriors.org also check out heroes and horses.org and finally, Jimmy May's organization beyond the brotherhood.org if by any chance you fought in the Battle of Romani in 2006 with the Ready 1st Brigade Combat Team, check out Ramadi reunion20.com Big reunion down in Texas, January 16th and 17th. I hope to see you all there. Army, Navy, Air Force and Marine Corps, let us know. Also, if you want to connect with the Travis Manion foundation, go to travismanion.org on Instagram. They're at Travis Manion Foundation, Facebook, Travis Manion Foundation, YouTube and Twitter. Is TMF. TM foundation at TM Foundation. And then for Ryan Manion. Ryanmanion.com and she's also on Instagram and Twitter at R. Manion. And then if you want to check out us, you can check out jocko.com and then on social media I'm at Jocko Willink Echoes at Echo. Charles, don't spend too much time on there. It should annoy you to be on there. That's the point that I've reached in my life. I'm annoyed by social media. Like don't, don't go on there and think that there's going to be anything that's going to help you out. No, it's not even the thing that you think helped you out in the moment. I got really motivated by this thing. So what'd you do? I screw scrolled to the next thing. Didn't help you at all. So let's get off there, get off that social media. Once again, thanks to Ryan Manion for everything you've done, continue to do for our families. For our veterans and our and their families. Thanks for capturing and sharing the legacy of your brother Travis. We will not forget him. Also thanks to all of our military members, Army, Navy, Air Force, and of course the United States Marine Corps. We live free because of your sacrifices and we are grateful for this gift every day. Also thanks to our police, law enforcement, firefighters, paramedics, EMTs dispatchers, correctional officers, Border patrol, Secret service, as well as all other first responders. We are safe at home because of your sacrifices and we are thankful to you as well and everyone else out there. Remember all these lessons from Travis Manion. I think a good one to focus on every day and they're all awesome. But be be big in the little things. The little things. The little things matter. The little things count. Little things add up and over time the little things become big things. That's all I've got for tonight. Until next time, the Zeko and Jaco. Oh.