Jocko Underground Podcast #180

Is Taking Weight-Loss Drugs "Cheating"?

Host: Jocko Willink & Echo Charles
Date: September 1, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Jocko Willink and Echo Charles address a listener’s question about the use of Tirzepatide, a popular weight-loss drug. The discussion explores the feelings of guilt or "cheating" associated with taking medical intervention for weight loss, examining the relationship between discipline, behavioral change, the role of medical assistance, and what truly constitutes "cheating" in the pursuit of better health.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Listener's Dilemma: Is Using Weight-Loss Medication "Cheating"?

[00:14-01:18]

• A listener shares their struggles with obesity, repeated failure in weight loss, and recent success with Tirzepatide (lost 12 lbs, improved energy, starting Muay Thai again), but feels conflicted about whether using medication is "the path of least resistance" or a legitimate kickstart.

2. Jocko’s Perspective: It’s About Health, Not Ego

[01:18-03:59]

• Medical Problem: Jocko emphasizes that obesity is inherently a medical issue:

  "Being obese is a medical problem ... it causes all kinds of other medical problems and it'd be great if you could have done it without the drug. But you, I'm assuming you've tried everything and you've still failed." (Jocko, 01:18)

• Medical vs. Surgical Risk: Turning to medication is viewed as less extreme—and likely safer—than invasive surgical options:

  "This seems like a much safer option than getting a surgery... people do it and have done it because they had such a hard time losing weight." (Jocko, 01:51)

• Making a Plan: Jocko stresses the importance of using medication as a tool, not a crutch:

  "Let's have a plan of like, okay, at this point, we're going to get off the drug... and hopefully you can get a pathway to the future when you don't need it anymore." (Jocko, 03:28)

• No Cheating Here:

  "I'd rather have you like losing the weight, getting some help medically than have you continue down a path of, you know, being obese and all the other medical problems..." (Jocko, 03:28)
  "I don't think you're cheating... You got to do something right now to get it squared away." (Jocko, 03:59)

3. Echo’s Perspective: When Is It "Cheating"?

[04:25-05:25]

• Cheating Defined:

  "The only time you cheat is if you're A, competing with someone, and B, there's rules to it, and when you break the rules, you're cheating." (Echo, 04:25)

• Self-Imposed Rules:
  Echo acknowledges the internal conflict many feel about "not using drugs" to assist, but points out it's often a self-imposed virtue, not a real ethical violation.

4. Behavioral Problem, Not Just Medical

[05:27-06:45]

• Behavior is Core: Echo reiterates the listener’s own admission:

  "Struggled to control my eating habits. That was his, his words. It's. It's a behavioral problem... when the decision comes time, he behaves the incorrect way... So these drugs... control your behavior with food." (Echo, 05:27)

• Medical Excuses:

  "It's not good practice to say, 'oh, it's probably my thyroid,' if you didn't go medically test that and get it professionally diagnosed... mentally it can serve as this excuse." (Echo, 05:27)

5. Weight-Loss Drugs: How They Work and the Behavior Loop

[06:45-09:18]

• Quote from Miha (via Echo):

  "It's funny how before we couldn't just say to obese people, 'eat less.' ... Now we say, lift up your shirt, pull out one of your fat rolls, stick this drug in there and... then eat less." (Echo quoting Miha, 06:47)

• Behavioral Chain Reaction:
  Echo shares his sister's experience (not using drugs, but similar idea) highlighting how one small change can trigger a positive chain of behaviors—weight leads to walking, walking to more weight loss, which motivates further healthy choices.

• Behavior > Chemistry:

  "Really, at the end of the day, it's what you do. Your behavior is going to control all that part of it. How your body... responds to it." (Echo, 08:29)

• Sustainability Warning:

  "If you get off of it, just, hey, pay attention to that kind of stuff. You know, if you want this thing to keep going, you got to pay attention to that..." (Echo, 08:55)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jocko:

  "I don't think you're cheating. I think you're... you got to do something right now to get your... get it squared away." (03:59)

• Echo:

  "The only time you cheat is if you're A, competing with someone, and B, there's rules to it..." (04:25)
  "Behavior is going to control all that part of it..." (08:29)

• Echo quoting Miha:

  "It's funny how before we couldn't just say to obese people, 'eat less.'... Now we say, lift up your shirt ... stick this drug in there and... then eat less." (06:47)

Key Takeaways

• Health Over Purity: Using medical help when traditional means have failed is not "cheating"—it's addressing a serious issue with the tools available.
• It's Only Cheating If There Are Rules and You Break Them: Personal health isn’t a competition with set rules for most people.
• Medication Is a Tool, Not a Solution: The real work is in sustained behavioral change. Be prepared for the challenges of eventually tapering off medication.
• Beware of Excuses: Unless medically diagnosed, avoid falling into the trap of self-diagnosing root causes (“must be my thyroid”) that give mental excuses.
• Sustained Attention is Key: Whether you’re taking meds or not, consistently monitoring your choices is central to long-term success.

Important Timestamps

• [00:14] – Listener question introduction and context
• [01:18] – Jocko’s medical perspective & safety comparison to surgery
• [03:26] – Risks of regaining weight post-medication; need for discipline shift
• [04:25] – Echo’s rules on what constitutes cheating
• [05:27] – Behavioral causes of obesity & medical excuses
• [06:47] – Miha’s quote on drug use for eating less; behavioral modification chain reaction
• [09:18] – Final emphasis: track your behavior & be mindful

This episode offers sobering, supportive advice for anyone wrestling with weight loss and the morality of using medical aids—focusing on real success anchored in behavior and consistent effort.