Jocko Underground: My Best Man Insulted Me and My Wife. Should I Forgive Him?

Summary

Jocko Underground Podcast #190 Summary
Episode Title: My Best Man Insulted Me and My Wife. Should I Forgive Him?
Release Date: November 17, 2025
Hosts: Jocko Willink & Echo Charles

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Main Theme

This episode dives into a listener's predicament involving a falling out with his best man after a wedding incident, leading to questions about forgiveness, friendship, and personal discipline. Jocko and Echo use the scenario to discuss broader themes of drama avoidance, emotional maturity, and the value of focusing on personal growth — particularly through the lens of Jiu Jitsu.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Listener’s Story (00:14–03:03)

• Scenario Recap:
  • Listener married six months ago; the best man caused a scene by arguing with the bride at the wedding (about a bridesmaid’s ex-partner being invited).
  • Despite previous conversations and assurances from the best man, drama flared up post-wedding.
  • Apology by text was followed by more justification/argument, then cold silence for months.
  • Contact reignited around mutual friends’ birthdays, with the best man reaching out belatedly.
  • Listener feels the apology was hollow, is disappointed, and wonders if reconciliation is worthwhile.
  • Listener has also been training Jiu Jitsu for two years, credits Jocko's influence.

2. Jocko’s Core Advice: Focus on What Matters

(03:04–05:13; 08:01–10:23)

• Avoiding Drama:
  • “Don’t do drama. It’s not part of our jam.” (04:14, Jocko)
  • Jocko urges the listener to step away from unnecessary drama and not to be sucked into emotional, ego-driven conflicts.
• On Friendship Drifting:
  • “If there’s someone that is inviting me to a party, if I want to go, I go. If I don’t want to go, I don’t go. If the person that’s supposed to be there doesn’t want to go 'cause I’m there... I won’t go. I don’t really care.” (07:07, Jocko)
  • Let the relationship “drift apart naturally,” with no added drama or resentment.
• On Internal Priorities:
  • “You got married. You got a wife. You got kids on the way, most likely... Why are you concerned about this?” (08:26, Jocko)
  • Encourages focusing energy on more meaningful pursuits and relationships.

3. Jiu Jitsu as a Guiding Mindset

(03:04–06:25)

• The 2-Year Mark:
  • Jocko relates the listener’s frustration with friendship to Jiu Jitsu milestones: “At the two year mark... you’re starting to get good... but there’s probably one or two purple belts still getting you.” (03:21, Jocko)
• Development Advice:
  • Train with those better, equal, and less skilled than you to “develop all aspects of your game.” (05:55, Jocko)
• Lesson Applied:
  • The focus and discipline learned on the mat are contrasted with off-mat drama — prioritize self-improvement over interpersonal conflicts.

4. Echo’s Perspective: Extreme Ownership & Forgiveness

(10:23–15:23)

• On Apologies and Forgiveness:
  • “He said sorry. Call them up. Be like, bro, forgiven. What up? Where we at? What’s been going on kind of a thing. He said sorry. Take it for what it is.” (11:11, Echo)
  • Echo reminds listeners of “extreme ownership”: let things go if an apology is offered, don’t hold grudges over minor issues.
• On Assigning Malice & Expectations:
  • Don’t “assign malice to tardiness or whatever… I think there’s no factor.” (14:46, Echo)
• On Birthdays & Social Expectations:
  • Both hosts poke fun at giving importance to birthdays and taking offense at late well-wishes:
    • “If you’re salty because someone missed the day by two days or 48 hours... No, this text should have come 48 hours ago... Actually, it’s an offense to my sensibilities.” (13:37, Echo)
    • “Happy birthday from you is not happening.” (14:26, Jocko)

5. Closing Life Lessons

• Let Go of Petty Grievances:
  • Being “in the wrong for thinking about this kind of thing” (09:13, Jocko) and letting minor drama occupy emotional space is discouraged.
• Not All Friendships Last Forever:
  • “People just don’t value... It’s no big deal. Just don’t hold it against him.” (10:01, Jocko)
• Politeness and Decency:
  • Dealing with former friends with polite indifference is preferable to fueling conflict.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Drama Avoidance:

  • “We’re letting — we’re taking the oxygen away from this drama. We’re not going to feed the drama. We’re just gonna let the drama, like, consume itself over there by its own. And we’re gonna be over here thinking about Jiu Jitsu.”
    — Jocko Willink (08:01)

• On Personal Growth Over Friendship Drama:

  • “You got married, so, bro, you got married. You’re married. Like, why are you concerned about this?”
    — Jocko Willink (08:27)

• On Apologies and Letting Go:

  • “He said sorry. Call them up. Be like, bro, forgiven... You gotta start letting stuff slide.”
    — Echo Charles (11:11)

• On Social Rituals:

  • “If you’re salty because someone missed the day by two days or 48 hours or whatever. No, no. This text should have come 48 hours ago... Actually, it’s an offense to my sensibilities.”
    — Echo Charles (13:37)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Listener Scenario Read-Aloud: 00:14–03:03
• Jocko on Focusing on Jiu Jitsu Instead of Drama: 03:04–06:25
• Approach to Drama & Drifting Friendships: 06:29–10:23
• Echo on Forgiveness, Friendship, & Birthdays: 10:23–15:23

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Summary Table

| Topic | Key Insight | Timestamp | |------------------------------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------|-------------| | Listener's Fallout with Best Man | Event recap, emotional fallout, Jiu Jitsu alongside | 00:14–03:03 | | Jocko on Priorities | Avoid drama, let relationships drift naturally | 03:04–10:23 | | Jiu Jitsu Lessons Applied to Life | Focus on training, improvement, don't sweat the drama | 03:04–06:25 | | Echo on Apologies & Ownership | Accept apologies, don't assign malice, downplay birthday drama | 10:23–15:23 |

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Takeaways for Listeners

• Prioritize your own growth and meaningful relationships.
• Avoid adding fuel to petty drama or ego-driven conflicts.
• Accept apologies and move on—don’t hold grudges over minor slights.
• Let friendships drift naturally if they're fraught with drama.
• Don’t sweat social rituals like birthday wishes; focus on bigger things.
• Use the mindset and discipline learned in pursuits like Jiu Jitsu as a model for handling turbulence in life.

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The tone throughout the episode remains direct, pragmatic, occasionally humorous, and centered on personal responsibility and emotional detachment from unnecessary drama.

Transcript

[A]

This is the Jocko Underground podcast number 190, sitting here with Echo Charles. We have some questions from you that we will do our best to provide guidance, courses of actions, possibly in some cases, actual answers to actual answers. Let's get to it.

[B]

All right, first question. Kind of a scenario here. Friendship scenario. All right. Hello, jockey. Six months ago, I got married, and my best man and I have not spoken since. After the wedding was finished, he started an argument with my new wife about how a bridesmaid's partner was invited. The bride, the bridesmaid is his ex. However, we asked him beforehand, what's a bridesmaid's partner? So a partner meaning like boyfriend, boyfriend, girlfriend, you know. So, you know, we got the bridesmaid used to be dating this dude who is the groom's baby best friend.

[A]

Okay, cool.

[B]

See what I'm saying? So basically, this couple, one is the bridesmaid, one is the groom's best friend.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And then they broke up. Boom, wedding goes down. See what I'm saying? And that's the scenario he's talking about. Ch. So after the wedding was finished, he started an argument with my new wife about his. About how a bridesmaid's partner was invited. The bridesmaid is his.

[A]

You have my heavy side. Just did.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Did a heavy sigh.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And that is part of my answer.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But just noted.

[B]

Okay. However, we asked him beforehand if he was comfortable with this, and he said he was his new part two, heavy s. Okay. His new partner was also invited. So his new girlfriend was also invited but couldn't make it. He apologized to my wife the next day through text, but then after the apology, argued that it wasn't confirmed about the bridesmaids partner attending. I didn't make contact with him after all this and waited for him to reach out. He didn't until a couple. Until a couple of weeks ago. This was all six months ago, by the way. So a couple weeks ago, the mutual friend's birthday and my birthday came up. I agreed to go as my best man, who I haven't spoken to, wasn't going. Then he contacted this mutual friend that he wanted to go, and I said I would not attend because it would be awkward. Long story short, the mutual friend told my best friend not to attend. Then a couple days later, he texted me. He said sorry about everything, and he just wanted to wish me a happy birthday. This was two days after my actual birthday. The text just seemed very hollow. And had he reached out at any other point previously, I would have happily accepted it and have. I would happily have repaired the relationship. But to me, he just seemed selfish and I didn't respond. Am I in the wrong or is this justified? I feel he doesn't value me as a friend due to all this happening. And I don't think I'm interested in a reconciliation. Any input or words of wisdom would be much appreciated. P.S. i've been training the jujits for two years.

[A]

There we go.

[B]

Thanks to you.

[A]

Okay. Input and words of wisdom. Keep training Jiu Jitsu. I would definitely focus more on Jiu Jitsu. You've been at it for two years. You know, two years, critical time. We got to talk about that, right? Because at the two year mark, you know, you're starting to get good. Maybe you already got your blue belt. Right. And, but you're, maybe you're thinking like, man, I think I kind of deserve my purple belt. You probably don't after two years, but you know, you're feeling good, you're, you're catching pretty much all the blue belts, you know what I'm saying? But there's probably one or two purple belts, you know, getting a couple times. Probably one of them you can kind of dominate. Sure. But then there's the other ones that are more challenging for you and you're kind of. But you know what we're going to tell you or say don't, don't focus on the belts. Just focus on the process. Keep training. Right. So that's, that's what I would do in this situation.

[B]

I understand what you mean.

[A]

You know what I'm saying? Because listen, two years is a, it's a good amount of time.

[B]

Good amount of time.

[A]

And you're. But there are a lot of people that quit after they get their boot belt. It's a big step.

[B]

Yeah, it's true.

[A]

But if you are still training, you got your blue belt, let's say you get your blue belt in a year. Is that reasonable?

[B]

One year is reasonable. If you're competing and training hard, that's reasonable too. Yeah, yeah, it's real realistic. We'll say so.

[A]

It's realistic. You, we're assuming that you got your blue belt in a year because you're training and you're training, we're assuming hard, but even if you're not, you're probably six months away. Even if you were like training three times a week, you're probably gonna get your blue belt in a year. Year and a half. Year and a half. Year and a half. So you're there. We hope you're a blue belt right now. And as a blue belt, like I said, it's pretty easy to get focused on other things. Distracted. Sometimes it can be drama. Like, even in Jiu Jitsu, there can be drama, but we don't do drama. It's not part of our jam. So there might be someone in your academy that's like, doesn't you think they're avoiding rolling with you? Or when they roll with you, they spaz out, and you can get caught up in that, or you can be like, oh, that person doesn't want to roll. Cool. I won't roll them. No big deal. So I'm not worried about it. Or there might be someone that's like a brown belt that kind of beats you up sometimes and you think, taking it personally, and you're like, I don't think I want to roll with them. Okay, well, you know, don't roll them if that's concerning you a lot.

[B]

So are you saying that the most significant part of this question is that last Jiu Jitsu part?

[A]

Well, I mean, he's been training Jiu Jitsu for two years, so I think this is. This is the kind of thing that, you know what you. When you look at your world. Yeah, because he didn't really talk about what he does for work. So we're not going to apply to work. Right. We can't. He doesn't have any leadership. There's no leadership questions in here about interacting with his boss, his peers, his subordinates. You know, there's no financial drama that's going on. So really, this is a question about Jiu Jitsu. The way I read it.

[B]

The way you read it.

[A]

Okay, I see. As a Jiu Jitsu question. So he's been training Jiu Jitsu for two years, and we're just giving some. He wanted advice, words of wisdom. So my advice and words of wisdom are, of course, keep training. Train with people that are a little bit better than you. I think this is something that I could have done better with my whole jujitsu career.

[B]

Yeah, okay.

[A]

Is train with people that are better than you. That's what I always did. But also train with people that are equal to you and train with even with people that are worse than you. As much as that kind of you. You feel like it's not as rewarding.

[B]

Right, Right. No, you're avoiding the iron sharpens, iron philosophy.

[A]

You gotta. You gotta train. So you work on your defense with the good people. You work on your. Both offense and defense with someone that's equivalent to you and you work on your offense with someone that's not as good as you, and that's how you're developing all aspects of your game.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

So that's what we're doing, you know. Yeah.

[B]

He did mention reconciling a friendship. That was half, according to him, half attempted.

[A]

Amen.

[B]

You know.

[A]

Yeah. So that sounds like it's a lot of drama wrapped up in this stuff. We got parties and birthday parties and bridesmaids and stuff like this. This is not my area of expertise, you know, because if there's someone that is, like, inviting me to a party, if I want to go, do I go. If I don't want to go, I don't go. If the person that's supposed to be there doesn't want to go. Cause I'm there and they don't want me to go, then I won't go. I don't really care what's gonna happen at a birthday party, we're gonna have a piece of cake. We're gonna have a moke. We have a malt cookie. I got more cookies at home and milk, by the way. And I won't be bothering anybody. So. Sounds like maybe. It sounds like the best man might be a lot of drama.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And you're allowing yourself to be wrapped up in this kind of drama. Don't do it. I. In this situation, I would just kind of ease away from the best. The best man type guy. Like, I don't make a big deal out of it. You know what I mean? When you. When you make a big deal out of something, like, if you call him up ahead and appreciate the way you. And now, like, Spats going on, he's going to be talking behind your back and all that stuff. Instead, you just go, oh, cool. Oh, you said happy birthday to me. Two days. Hey, man, appreciate it.

[B]

Good.

[A]

That's it, man. Not, you know, you're. Two days. No, no, no, no. We're. We're. We're. We're extinguishing. We're. We're letting. We're taking the oxygen away from this drama. We're not going to feed the drama. We're just gonna let the drama, like, consume itself over there by its own. And we're gonna be over here thinking about Jiu Jitsu, and you got married, so, bro, you got married. You're married. Like, why are you concerned about this? You got a wife, you got kids on the way. Most likely it's six months. You got probably a few more months to your first kids coming, right? I Mean, again, assumption. But we're. We're active in the game, sir, so. So that's what I would do. Like, sounds like the guy's kind of naturally drifting away from you. And I would just let it naturally drift away. I wouldn't cause any more drama. I wouldn't add any fuel to the fire. I would be polite and I would carry on and I would let. Let it run its course because its course is headed that you two are. Are going to be a little bit more distant. And that's fine because it sounds like he's got a lot of drama and emotion and stuff like that, and you don't want to be wrapped up in that. Right. Even thinking about the text seeming hollow, like, okay, it's a text, bro. You know, we can't get wrapped up around stuff like this. You're a married dude with, you know, a wife. You got important things, jobs, jiu jitsu. We're not thinking about this kind of stuff. Am I in the wrong, or is this justified? It's. You're in the wrong for thinking about this kind of thing and kind of. You know what I mean?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I get it, dude. You're kind of, you know. You know, the guy was your best man, so clearly he had some level of connection to you. You guys went through. You guys both were on the wrestling team or whatever together, and now you've grown up a little bit or, you know, but it's going to drift apart. This is the way it is. No factor. I wouldn't worry about it. I wouldn't worry about it, man. He doesn't value me as a friend, bro, if that's what's going on.

[B]

Cool.

[A]

You know, hey, man, no factor. That's. That's the way people are. It's the kind of the way of. The way of the world. Sometimes people just don't value. It's no big deal. Just don't hold it against him. That's. He's, you know, he's got his own thing going on. He's got his ego, he's got his personality. He doesn't recognize how good of a friend you are. Of course not. That's the way people are. No big deal. I'm gonna hold it against him. That's fine. That's what I got, man.

[B]

Makes. Makes sense that you'd say that. Overall, the only reason that I might feel a little bit different, a little bit more, how should I say? Involved. Not involved, but, you know, invested in the scene.

[A]

Hey, this. This is probably the good place for Echo Charles to chime in with relationship male on male relationship connections. Go ahead.

[B]

Well, I cuz. Well, now I will say I don't know the whole like relationship, whatever, but we do know that this guy was the best man. So it's obviously something. It's not nothing. It's not like just some dude that, you know, whatever. And Al, in the spirit of extreme ownership, something I had learned a few years ago, by the way, if he did say sorry, he text. He reached out and said sorry about everything.

[A]

Yeah, be cool. Then we're good, bruh.

[B]

Forgiven. You're sorry. Call them up. Be like, bro, forgiven. What up? Where we at? What's been going on kind of a thing. He said sorry. Take it for what it is. You know, the whole. And I'm saying if it's his, which it is. I mean, all these feelings to me are justified. Look, is a behavior justified? No, not necessarily. But he said sorry for that. See, I'm saying like, bruh, if someone feels like the main thing that's going to make a person feel uncomfortable, it's going to be another person that's like the number one thing on the list. Like what else can make. I mean, what, maybe like a wild animal or something like this? But I'm just saying in everyday life, like so for someone to feel uncomfortable that their ex is there or, you know, but that makes sense to have those feelings. Like I said, it doesn't justify behavior. But he said sorry for that. See, I'm saying so you got to start letting stuff slide. Now. This is just my opinion, but I believe that it makes sense. Someone wishes you happy birthday and it's two days late and you're salty about it being two days late. I think that's your problem, bro.

[A]

You know it's not, bro, even if you expect anyone to say Happy birthday to you.

[B]

Exactly right. Like, bro, it's. It is not.

[A]

I say happy birthday to him. I mean the. Like I'll be on the echelon front group text group and like 14 people will say happy Birthday, Dave Burke. You know, and at the end I'll be like, whatever. Haha, you know?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

There was no way I would v. There was no way I would inherently by myself text Dave Burke or you or anyone. Hey, Ekko, Happy birthday, bro. Hope you have a great day.

[B]

Yeah, you do it. See how you laughed right there? You do it as a joke. You'd be like, happy Birthday. And then like an hour later be like, I hope you die today or something. Like that's how non Factor. It is, I think, and I agree with that. Not everyone does. And I get it, but I agree, like, after about maybe, I don't know, 10, 11 years. 10 years old? Really? Your 11th birthday is a non factory for the rest of your life.

[A]

Sixteen's good. You get your driver's license?

[B]

If you're a girl. Yeah, sure. But if you're not a girl, sorry, bro. It's. Yeah, it's a cool day, but I'm saying it's a big deal when you.

[A]

Turn 16 and you get your driver's license. That's a big deal.

[B]

Yeah, I'm not talking about.

[A]

You don't celebrate it. You're gonna like.

[B]

You're correct. Yeah, I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about somebody wishing you happy birthday, which is exactly what this is.

[A]

You can finally join the military without your parents consent.

[B]

Yeah, man. You can vote the whole deal, bro.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But if you're salty because someone missed the day by two days or 48 hours or whatever. No, no. This te should have came 48 hours ago. Oh. Therefore, this text is null and void. And actually, it's an offense to my sensibilities.

[A]

That's a pretty good like. Like, what do they call that mental drill to go through is like, if I were to express my feelings to this individual about what they did, how would they sound? But the problem with that is sometimes. Sometimes people would think they would sound good, you know? Well, it was 48 hours, you know, that's 48 hours worth of my suffering.

[B]

Right?

[A]

That I didn't know that you wanted me to have a happy birthday today.

[B]

Exactly right. What. What kind of world?

[A]

You know what Jocko says you can't. You can't get a workout back. How am I supposed to have a good day when it already got blessed, bro? I don't. You try to bless me with a happy birthday. But it was already two days ago. That's gone. I can't ever get that day back. Exactly right. Happy birthday from. From you. Is not happening.

[B]

Not happening. It's hollow.

[A]

It's hollow.

[B]

Quote unquote. What kind of world do we live in where people are just wishing happy birthdays to me on days that eight, Dude.

[A]

Happy birthday. I go.

[B]

Happy birthday. Exactly right. You see, what I'm saying is nothing means absolutely nothing.

[A]

When is your birthday?

[B]

Doesn't matter. Okay. This year sometime. Yeah.

[A]

Happy birthday.

[B]

Don't worry.

[A]

Happy birthday.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Nonetheless, I mean it from the bottom of my heart.

[B]

And I mean, it's a fun exercise. I get it, but it's actually true. I think anyway, like if you're like for real saying hey, it was hollow cuz it wasn't on my real birthday and all this stuff. Unless you suspect that he did it on purpose, which I mean, I don't. There's no indication to that, I don't think. But that is a non factor and it's kind of like a bad move to start doing that, you know, like assigning like malice to like freaking some tardiness or whatever. So I think there's no factor. I think he says, he said sorry if that's your friend, obviously he was best man scenario. He said sorry and then you're saying no, not good enough. Under what circumstance? Why is that not good enough?

[A]

Yeah, I would just say this. And again, you know, like if we have, we're talking about this kind of thing, then you're not my best man and I don't want you to be my best man. And I wouldn't be your best man if you were telling me this guy stuff. You know what I'm saying? Like, there's just a lot, you know, I, I would not talk to people for years. So that is a little excerpt of what we are doing on the Jocko Underground podcast. So if you want to continue to listen, go to jockounderground.com and subscribe. And we're doing this, we're doing this to mitigate our reliance on external platforms so we are not subject to their control. And we are doing this so that we can support the Jocko podcast which will remain as is free for all as long as we can keep it that way. But we, but we are doing this so we don't have to be under the control of sponsors. And we're doing it so we can give you more control, more interaction, more direct connections, better communications with us. And to do that, we are, we're building a website right now where we'll be able to utilize to strengthen this legion of troopers that are in the game with us. So thank you. It's jockounderground.com it costs $8.18 a month. And if you can't afford to support us, we can still support you. Just email assistancecounderground.com and we'll get you taken care of. Until then, we will see you mobilized underground.