Jocko Podcast Underground #187

Episode Title: Smashing Life with No Support | Could a Woman Be a Navy SEAL?
Release Date: October 27, 2025
Hosts: Jocko Willink (A) & Echo Charles (B)

Episode Overview

In this episode, Jocko Willink and Echo Charles tackle tough listener questions about overcoming adversity without a support system and examine the challenges behind why no woman has ever completed Navy SEAL BUD/S training. The discussion is frank, motivational, and rooted in the mindset of personal accountability, resilience, and tactical, step-by-step improvement—even in the face of overwhelming odds.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Dealing with Adversity With No Support System

• Listener’s Situation (00:23–01:35):
  Echo reads a question from a 26-year-old pitching coach who has faced considerable hardship:

  • Lost his father at 16
  • Lives with multiple learning disabilities and partial deafness
  • Endured family hostility as half-Native American
  • Battled depression, drug addiction, and nearly died by suicide
  • Recently lost his job (accepts responsibility) and relies on his girlfriend’s support
  • Asks: If I didn’t have a support system, how do I pick myself up as an adult?

• Jocko’s Guidance (01:35–06:05):

  • Draws a parallel to a "battlefield mentality":

    “Always improve your position. Always, always improve your position on the battlefield. Always improve your position.” (01:37)

  • Warns against focusing on the distance fallen or the daunting climb ahead; instead, urges focus on small, controllable actions:

    “If you can just focus on improving your position right now, just a little bit, then the overwhelming nature of these events will begin to fade because you’re now focused on something that you can control.” (02:20)

  • Cites practical examples from leaders:
    • Admiral McRaven: “Make your bed.”
    • Jordan Peterson: “Clean your room.”
    • Jocko: “Wake up early and work out.”
  • Stresses the concept of extreme ownership:

    “That actually is extreme ownership…The recognition that the world does not control you…you control how you respond.” (03:32)

  • Concludes with a message of agency and self-reliance:

    “The support system is you. That’s the way it is. That’s the way it is always going to be...What you need is that recognition that this is your life…how you respond and the way you behave are choices that you get to make. And that’s awesome. You are the support system. So own it. And then get after it one small step at a time.” (04:27–05:59)

2. Why Haven’t Women Become Navy SEALs?

• Listener’s Question (06:05–06:25):

  • “Why do you think no women have ever been a Navy SEAL, finished BUDs? Looking at the required and even recommended fitness standards, I know women who can pass, but what is it that has prevented this from happening, in your opinion?”

• Jocko’s Analysis (06:25–07:38):

  • Acknowledges uncertainty about specific standards the listener referenced.
  • Notes that, physically, the challenge of being both “really strong and have endurance” is rare—especially the combination of upper and lower body strength plus speed and stamina.
  • Explains the demands of SEAL BUD/S training:

    “You’ve got to be able to carry that big ass log around and carry that boat on your head and you’ve got to be able to run fast and…have strong upper body that you can do pull ups and rope climbs. So…you see the fitness standards or whatever, the recommended fitness standards that are like 20 pull ups…that is a little excerpt of what we are doing.” (06:46–07:30)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Extreme Ownership and Agency:

  “The world does not control you…you control how you respond to those things. You do. You control that.” — Jocko (03:49)

• On the ‘Support System’ Within:

  “The support system is you…how you respond and the way you behave are choices that you get to make. And that’s awesome.” — Jocko (04:31)

• On why the SEAL pipeline is so demanding:

  “It’s a very hard category to fit into. To be both strong and have endurance, it’s very difficult. And BUDS basic SEAL training is a test of those things.” — Jocko (06:32)

Important Timestamps

• 00:23 — Listener’s adversity story and question about support systems
• 01:35 — Jocko’s “improve your position” mindset and advice on agency
• 04:27 — Clarifies that ultimately, you are your own support system
• 06:05 — Listener asks why women haven’t completed SEAL BUD/S
• 06:25 — Jocko discusses the unique and demanding combination of attributes SEALs require

Tone and Style

• Direct, Military-Inspired Language: Jocko uses battlefield and training analogies to frame life’s challenges.
• Empathetic, No-Excuses Attitude: Clear understanding of hardship, but relentless advocacy for personal responsibility.
• Supportive yet Challenging: Encourages listeners to own every step of their journey with actionable philosophy.

Summary

Jocko and Echo deliver tough, actionable advice rooted in discipline and self-reliance. Whether facing life with (or without) external support or wondering about the realities behind the Navy SEAL selection process, the episode distills complex struggles into practical, empowering steps—emphasizing: Your response, your ownership, your agency. And when adversity strikes, focus on what you control: always improve your position.