A (0:00)

This is the Jocko Underground podcast number 165, sitting here with Echo Charles preparing to answer questions from the troopers of planet Earth.

B (0:08)

Sure. So we ready?

A (0:12)

Yeah, we're ready. Gonna present some courses of action, some thoughts, and then we'll move forward.

B (0:18)

Yeah. See how we can move forward. Good. Agree. Okay, first question. Hi Jockey. I write to you to ask for advice on behalf of my girlfriend. She's one of the most squared away and hard working people I know. Wakes up early, works out, goes to the lab, works all day. She's in the last phase of her PhD program where, where her advisor, the person who runs the whole lab, is making life difficult. For starters, he's rarely in the lab. From what I can tell, he keeps students in the dark about their future. For example, he hasn't reviewed the papers that my girlfriend submitted over a year ago. There is a minimum, there is minimal communication. He'll meet with students occasionally where he yells at them for not having, for not achieving the results he expected. All of that would be tolerable except for he keeps pushing back her graduation every single semester. Everyone, everyone who has recently graduated from the lab has left on bad terms with this advisor. What can she do in this situation? Should she just keep at it and hope for the best? She's even ready to jump ship to another PhD program. But that will undo a lot of effort she has put in. Thanks for everything.

A (1:30)

Well, I'll start off by saying I don't really know a lot about PhD programs and how they work other than hearing stories from people that I know that are doctors of some kind.

B (1:39)

Sure.

A (1:40)

And you know, there's different kind of. But they do mention labs. So I'm imagining it's not like a PhD in literature or something like that. This sounds like some kind of a science based. Right. At a minimum, going to a lab. So. But I don't know much about those programs. I didn't get any degree past my just regular degree in English, which wasn't science anyway. So you're talking an area that I don't have a lot of expertise and I certainly don't know the specifics of the program that she's involved in. So I'm just going to look at this from sort of a, a leadership and a human interaction perspective. And I think what I would do if I were her is I would kind of start to document what is happening and I would, I would gather documentation that has already taken place. Right. And I would start to document things that are going on. Sending emails, hey, checking in you know, doc, you know, I'm assuming the person that's running the lab is doctor Checking in. Doctor. Doctor Advisor, you know, you know, what's up with this? Can I expect a grade back? And then I would just start to maintain what kind of communication are you getting? And if you're not getting communication that's by the way, that's a form of communication if you're getting blown off. As I make communications, whether I receive things or not back, I would start to not demand, but I would request very specific things be put in writing. You know, I'd be saying like, hey, you know, Dr. Advisor, I would like to know about this. I would. I've got this thing working. I'd like to know what I can expect here. I would start to ask for very specific requirements that then I can hang on to and I can be able to. Where I'm going with this, be able to present some kind of a case. Right. I would probably gather other information from other students as well. Like, you sure you have friends that are there. Maybe you have some friends that graduated. Let's get some documentation from them. And then I would put together like a nice request, an outline of a plan that this advisor approves that to a commitment for how you're gonna finish this program and then hopefully get traction. But if you don't get traction, I would set a meeting with the advisor and I would say, listen, you know, here's where we've been for the last three months, four months, five months, because she. She must have some emails. So you. Maybe it's the last nine months. Here's where what I've been through, here's where I'm at. And unless you can help me resolve this, I'm actually going to go and talk to the professor, not the advisor, but the professor or the department head or something like that, and get this resolved. Because this is unacceptable. It's unacceptable for this. Be cordial and be professional. And. But this is wrong. You know, this is just wrong. So that's what I would do. I would gather evidence. I would build a case. I would eventually request like an outline of what I need to do to get this done in writing. And then if I'm not getting the response that I need, I would present the case first to the advisor and say, hey, because I don't want to blind someone side. I don't want to blindside someone. I would present and say, hey, listen, Echo, here's where I'm at. Here's I've been nine months of correspondence from you. You sent me too many emails back. I've sent you 37 emails. The only thing you sent me back, one email says yes. The other email says, check back with me later, and I did. And you never responded. So that is nine months of me putting forth my maximum effort, and this is what I've gotten back from you. I need to graduate from this program. I need to carry on with my life. If you cannot give me a simple, clear, concise answer on how I can make that happen, I am going to take this information to the professor that is running the course, and I'm going to get this resolved. Now, listen, I'm being a little bit more aggressive than I would be in this conversation, but that's ultimately what you have to do, in my opinion.