Angie Martinez IRL - Gabrielle Union: You Never Know What Your Friends Are Going Through

Summary

Joe and Jada Podcast

Angie Martinez IRL – Gabrielle Union: You Never Know What Your Friends Are Going Through

Date: February 11, 2026
Episode Overview:
This episode features Angie Martinez in an intimate, wide-ranging conversation with actress, author, and producer Gabrielle Union. The discussion delves deep into Gabrielle’s search for inner peace, her journey through trauma and healing, her family life in the public eye, the challenges and joys of marriage and motherhood, and the importance of honesty, boundaries, and support from friends and mentors. It’s a raw and honest look at the unseen battles people fight and the power of living authentically.

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Main Themes & Episode Structure

• The Pursuit of Peace in the Face of Chaos
• Healing from Trauma and the Impact on Physical Health
• Public Advocacy, Family Choices, and Motherhood
• Friendship, Boundaries, and Accountability
• Love, Marriage, and Personal Happiness
• The Role of Mentorship and Community
• Notable Life Lessons and Practical Advice

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Gabrielle’s “Let Them” Era

[02:03–03:28]

• Gabrielle describes her current season as her “let them era,” inspired by Mel Robbins' quote: “Let them think X, Y, Z about me. Okay.” She’s learning to let go of others' opinions and focus on inner peace.
• She jokes about a less peaceful moment struggling to get into a game in Miami, reminding us everyone has off days.

Quote:

“To live in truth, I may have been a prisoner to PTSD, but I will never be a prisoner to the fuckery. I just won’t.”
— Gabrielle Union [18:06]

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2. Navigating Retirement and Family Dynamics

[04:24–06:31]

• Gabrielle and her husband (Dwyane Wade) are adjusting to post-retirement life. Dwyane’s quest for new passions (golf, photography, podcasting, investing) inspires and amuses her.
• She shares how changes in the household routine and her husband’s attention to detail can be both disruptive and a catalyst for growth.

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3. Healing from Trauma: Gabrielle’s PTSD Journey

[07:14–16:26]

• For over three decades after a sexual assault, Gabrielle managed PTSD with general therapy, but recent specialized trauma therapy (through a program called NIMA) brought her unprecedented relief.
• She describes in detail how untreated trauma had manifested physically—full-body anxiety, health issues, autoimmune flare-ups—and how new therapy allowed her to discover true peace for the first time.

Quote:

“I didn’t understand how much that kind of anxiety was inflaming my body, exacerbating the autoimmune.”
— Gabrielle Union [11:55]

• She highlights that trauma can affect anyone, not just obvious cases:

  “We are being traumatized daily, and we don't recognize that we are being traumatized daily.” [09:47]

• Now, she values the ability to remain calm amid chaos, not submitting to panic or external pressures.

Quote:

“I was able to find what peace feels like in my body... My health improved dramatically—night and day.”
— Gabrielle Union [11:38]

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4. Living Truthfully Despite Public Scrutiny

[16:54–23:21]

• Gabrielle and her family live openly, discussing difficult issues like surrogacy and supporting her transgender stepdaughter Zaya. She acknowledges the heavy toll of being public, including threats and anxiety.
• She champions advocating for loved ones—especially children—and being a sanctuary rather than a source of stress or shame.

Quote:

“You’re supposed to be the sanctuary, not the hell they’re escaping.”
— Gabrielle Union [23:07]

• She notes that with authenticity comes risk:

  “There’s a price... your life may be threatened. Your family's lives may be threatened... There’s other ways of participating in resistance.” [23:21]

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5. Motherhood: Intentional Parenting and Self-Reflection

[27:56–32:56]

• Gabrielle discusses her intentional approach to parenting, sharing poignant moments with her daughter Kaavia and stepdaughter Zaya about self-expression, boundaries, and public life.
• She reflects on how children watch everything and challenges herself to model what she teaches.

Quote (On Kaavia):

“She’s gonna check you, boo.”
— Gabrielle Union [28:34]

• On letting Zaya control her own narrative:

“She did not like people dead-naming her... She was very determined, and so that sort of opened the door for her speaking out and being very clear about her identity and her confidence.” [30:24]

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6. Marriage: Communication, Time Apart, and Choosing Each Other

[34:16–38:33]

• 10+ years in, Gabrielle says marriage is “a living, breathing thing you have to feed and nurture,” and every marriage is unique.
• She and Dwyane prioritize quality time, physical connection, and better communication, especially with demanding careers.
• They avoid couples who incessantly complain about their partners:

  “That shit is contagious... Like, I like this man.” [35:44]

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7. Friendship, Boundaries, and Accountability

[39:33–45:18]

• Gabrielle’s approach to boundaries has evolved after experiencing betrayal and realizing some friends are only there for transactional reasons.
• She values accountability and expects her close friends to own their actions:

  “I’ve had to figure out how to love you from across the street.” [40:50]

• She and Angie discuss the importance of knowing what different people bring to your life and respecting the different types of friendship.

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8. Mentorship and the Legacy of OGs

[53:08–58:33]

• Gabrielle pays tribute to mentors Tisha Campbell, Tichina Arnold, and Regina King for protecting and guiding her in Hollywood.
• Tisha Campbell paid for her first Black woman therapist:

  “She paid for the first... a lot of sessions with the therapist I still have to this day.” [54:28]

• Gabrielle is paying it forward, supporting the next generation—including Keke Palmer, Meg Thee Stallion, and her family.

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9. Career Turning Points: “Being Mary Jane”

[60:28–64:13]

• Gabrielle recounts not being cast in “Scandal” but landing “Being Mary Jane” the day Whitney Houston died—highlighting how fate, mentorship, and support from other Black women helped her continue in the industry.
• She reflects on how this role allowed her to grow as a woman and an artist.

Quote:

“It was a great period of my life while in the midst of crazy chaos.”
— Gabrielle Union [62:56]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On finding peace:

  “I don’t want to ever not have peace. I’m like, obviously, it’s life. So bad things are going to happen… It doesn’t have to be feeling like I’m being actively hunted.”
  — Gabrielle Union [13:17]

• On boundaries:

  “If you’re in my life... and you can’t own your shit, you have no place in my life. I cannot do no accountability. I can’t.”
  — Gabrielle Union [41:09]

• On marriage:

  “I like him a lot. Like, he’s literally my favorite person.”
  — Gabrielle Union [36:30]

• On advice and trying:

  “Don't take advice from people who've never done what you've done... Most people need to shut the fuck up.”
  — Gabrielle Union [51:40]

• On OG support:

  “Sometimes you need, you know, an OG to be like, cut the shit. Have some sunflower seeds.”
  — Gabrielle Union [59:39]

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Timestamps for Essential Segments

• Let Them Era / Mindset: [02:03–03:28]
• Marriage, Retirement & Adjustments: [04:24–06:31]
• PTSD & NIMA Therapy Breakthrough: [07:14–16:26]
• Advocacy, Public Life & Family: [16:54–23:21]
• Motherhood and Modeling Agency: [27:56–32:56]
• Marriage Quality & Communication: [34:16–38:33]
• Friendship and Setting Boundaries: [39:33–45:18]
• Mentorship from Tisha & Regina: [53:08–58:33]
• Career Moments—Being Mary Jane: [60:28–64:13]

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Tone & Style

The tone throughout is candid, humorous, reflective, and at times deeply emotional. Angie Martinez draws out intimate and vulnerable stories from Gabrielle, who responds with honesty and warmth, often peppered with jokes and asides.

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Closing Reflections

The episode leaves listeners with the message that everyone—even seemingly strong and successful people—may be fighting unseen battles. Gabrielle’s journey underscores the power of specialized healing, the necessity of boundaries, and the impact of both giving and receiving support. Her story also challenges us to examine our own assumptions, embrace honesty (with ourselves and others), and support the people we love by letting them be their truest selves.

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Final Thought:
If God texted Gabrielle today?

“You got this.” [64:22]

And Gabrielle believes it.

Transcript

[Andrew Martinez]

This is an I heart podcast.

[Gabrielle Union]

Guaranteed human at Charmin. We heard you shouldn't talk about going to the bathroom in public, so we decided to sing about it.

[Andrew Martinez]

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[Gabrielle Union]

Charmin ultra strong with diamond weed texture cleans better than the leading one plaid brand so you you can use less. Enjoy the go with Charmin. One of her first directing gigs, unless it was her first, was on Being Mary Jane. And you know, everyone has a moment. And I was having a little moment, a little bratty moment, and she like, came to my trailer. She has a little thing of sunflower seeds and she was like, you know, hand me some sunflower seeds. And she's like, basically, cut the shit. Cut the shit. I was like, I'm gonna cut the shit.

[Andrew Martinez]

You know what I mean?

[Gabrielle Union]

And you sometimes you need that too. You know, it's not always, you know, moonlight and rose. Sometimes you need, you know, an OG to be like, cut the shit. Have some sunflower series.

[Andrew Martinez]

Thanks for watching, guys. Today's episode is brought to you by Boost Mobile. From starring in American teen classics to becoming a scene stealer in some of our favorite movies like Bring It On, Deliver us from Eva. Bad, Bad Bunny.

[Gabrielle Union]

Bad Bunny.

[Andrew Martinez]

Bad bunny movie Bad Boys 2. She went on to lead as being Mary Jane, which is one of BET's most success this series. She's here promoting her new role on the animated sports comedy Goat, produced by Steph Curry. She's a New York Times bestseller, a producer, a wife, a badass, a mom, a friend, many, many things. Please welcome my friend Gabrielle Union to IRL podcast today. That intro, I'm going be honest, it doesn't really hit all the points. There's so many things that you have done in your career. It's really quite impressive.

[Gabrielle Union]

It's weird. It's like you're talking about somebody else.

[Andrew Martinez]

So what era is this? What season is this for Gabrielle Union right now?

[Gabrielle Union]

Oh, this is my let them era.

[Andrew Martinez]

Yes.

[Gabrielle Union]

It's like, okay, okay.

[Andrew Martinez]

And you're doing so well.

[Gabrielle Union]

Except when we were having challenges in Miami getting into the game, maybe that wasn't my finest hour. That was definitely not a let them. It was like, let me take over.

[Andrew Martinez]

Where did we go? We went to.

[Gabrielle Union]

To the national championship game.

[Andrew Martinez]

That game.

[Gabrielle Union]

Yeah.

[Andrew Martinez]

I didn't know what we were going to. I just kind of showed Up. That was the first time I've hung out with you and Dee before. That was the first time I was hanging out with you guys, and it was an event that you were part of, and he was like, the plus one.

[Gabrielle Union]

Yeah.

[Andrew Martinez]

And it's kind of really sweet to see you two in that dynamic, because he really puts an effort to say, no, no, no, I'm just a plus one. I am.

[Gabrielle Union]

He likes saying that, but I'm like, baby, you're never the plus one. Of course. He walks in. We're in Miami.

[Andrew Martinez]

I know.

[Gabrielle Union]

And, you know, Tom Brady is also doing this gig, and Tom's like, where's. Where's the guy? Where's my. Where's my guy? I was like, he's over there. Never saw Tom again. They're just chopping it up. Yeah. But no, he's. He's in a very supportive space. You know what I mean? It was supposed to be after he retired. You know, we were moving to la, and it's all about me and, oh.

[Andrew Martinez]

This was gonna be your season.

[Gabrielle Union]

This was gonna be my season. And then he prompt, like, eight more jobs.

[Andrew Martinez]

Yeah.

[Gabrielle Union]

But, yeah, we're doing better at actually being present and being truly supportive.

[Andrew Martinez]

You ever notice how everything keeps going up? I mean, rent is going up, streaming services are going up. Even, like, your favorite burrito place all of a sudden wants to charge you for salsa. You go to the supermarket, they want to charge you extra for the bag. It's kind of crazy out here. The good thing is, with Boost Mobile, you and your phone bill do not have to play that game. You don't have to play the will this go up soon? Game.

[Gabrielle Union]

Why?

[Andrew Martinez]

Because Boost Mobile has an unlimited talk, text, and data plan at a price that will never go up. In fact, it's the same price you'll pay for life. So switch now to unlimited wireless at a price that will never go up. Only at boost mobile, after 30 gigabytes, customers may experience slower speeds. Customers will pay $25 a month as long as they remain active on the Boost Mobile unlimited plan. So how is retirement life for you? How does it affect you as a couple? Like, how has life changed?

[Gabrielle Union]

Well, just him being was just different. Like, he doesn't, you know, you get into a rhythm of how things are done in the house, and then he comes in and, you know, he's very particular and a little persnickety about how things are done.

[Andrew Martinez]

Yeah.

[Gabrielle Union]

Yeah.

[Andrew Martinez]

So that will cause a little shift.

[Gabrielle Union]

Yeah. Because we're, like, a little looser. You know what I mean? It's like, oh, this doesn't have to be put away or this doesn't have to be perfect. And, you know, he came home and he's like, what have I been paying for?

[Andrew Martinez]

He's paying attention to details.

[Gabrielle Union]

Oh, so much attention to details. But it was also like watching him find different passions. You know, when you, when you've been so good at one thing for so long and you're recognized globally for being good at this one thing, you know, what's my next challenge? And watching him find new passions, you know, you know that he's taken up golf, and that's yalls passion.

[Andrew Martinez]

He's my best friend. He's one of my golf best friends.

[Gabrielle Union]

Because he's very into it because he's.

[Andrew Martinez]

As much of a psychopath as I am, and I love that about him.

[Gabrielle Union]

No, but he's like, he's really, really into it. Has coach and he wants to be the best. And now he's really into photography.

[Andrew Martinez]

Oh, wow.

[Gabrielle Union]

So no matter where we go, he hires a local photographer to, like, teach him, you know, new things. I love that.

[Andrew Martinez]

Yeah.

[Gabrielle Union]

So, you know, he's. He's really into different things and he's more interesting and he's into art and travel and wine. Wine, of course.

[Andrew Martinez]

And potting. He was potting. Podcasting for a little.

[Gabrielle Union]

Yes. No, he still has a podcast. I thought you were.

[Andrew Martinez]

Nevermind.

[Gabrielle Union]

I was like, pot. No, he. I mean, he is an investor in cannabis companies. Yes, that too. He does. I was like, is that called potic? No, he has a podcast.

[Andrew Martinez]

You guys have really, by the way, of this, of my pod era. Like, you guys have really been a lovely support. Like, you support it. Like, I feel like, I don't know. We went on your, your 50th party and, and, and he had like a hundred questions about interview style and the way I was doing certain interviews that he had watched. And it just was, it's, you know, sometimes you don't think your friends are even paying attention to what, what, what you're doing in that kind of way.

[Gabrielle Union]

Well, because it was like a new thing. You know, he's in that period of, of discovery.

[Andrew Martinez]

Yeah.

[Gabrielle Union]

Of like, could this be something I'm passionate about? Could this be something I'm good at? And so he's like, I want to talk to the goats, and you're a goat and all that. You do.

[Andrew Martinez]

Thank you.

[Gabrielle Union]

So he really, I mean, he was legit very interested. And then he watched. He watches every episode.

[Andrew Martinez]

Oh, my God, I love that.

[Gabrielle Union]

And I'll be Like, did you see, like, how she did, like, what, she transitioned? I was like, yes. You should talk to her about it so much. No, he pays attention to all the little things because he wants to be great at being a podcaster. He wants to be great as, you know, interviewer. And. Yeah, so he watches the goats.

[Andrew Martinez]

What are you working on now? Like, what are you trying to be great at? What are you finding new in your life?

[Gabrielle Union]

I'm trying to be great at being in a peaceful state. And, you know, no matter if there's adversity going on, that, like, my soul is at peace, like, I don't have to submit to the chaos. I don't have to join in.

[Andrew Martinez]

Give me an example. What are you talking. What are you. What are you thinking about?

[Gabrielle Union]

I mean, it's Hollywood, right? So I'm working on this movie that I guess I can't talk about just yet, but we're working on this movie, and I get to work, and there's no pages. Like, I was like, well, what are we performing today? And they're like, we're just waiting on the pages. And I'm like, so I'm just supposed to get these pages and act and deliver and deliver. Like, with no preparation.

[Andrew Martinez]

So old, you would have what I.

[Gabrielle Union]

Had of an anxiety attack, for sure, because I live to be prepared. You know, I believe there is no such thing as luck. It's, you know, when opportunity and preparedness come together. And so if I'm not prepared, how can I be good?

[Andrew Martinez]

Right?

[Gabrielle Union]

And so you panic, Full panic. And then the rage. How dare you set me up for failure? You know what I mean? And I was like, it's gonna be great. Okay. Like, my soul is not new for you being disrupted. Yes.

[Andrew Martinez]

Yeah.

[Gabrielle Union]

Yeah. But I also did this. Or I did this program. It's called nima, and it's. It helps people with post traumatic stress syndrome, which I've been a victim of for 33 years since my sexual assault, and. And finally getting help that is. Is specific to post traumatic stress.

[Andrew Martinez]

And this is a new thing that you've been doing? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Gabrielle Union]

I mean, I believe in it so greatly, I became. Become an investor. Like, I'm a part of the. The. The. The NIMA team because it. It changed my life.

[Andrew Martinez]

Tell me how. Tell me what it is.

[Gabrielle Union]

Like, it's. It's a. So I. You can either do, like, between, like, 10 and 15 sessions. I did mine sometimes back to back every day. So I might do five one week, three the next.

[Andrew Martinez]

Is it therapy?

[Gabrielle Union]

It's Therapy? Yes. You do one on one with a trauma specialist that's trained specifically in PTSD therapy. And they have tremendous success. And they've. They've been using this therapy on veterans, on, you know, anyone who's suffered, you know, from. Suffering from post traumatic stress syndrome. And it's funny. It's not funny, but it's. The majority of the people that they see, you would imagine that they're soldiers, you know, or veterans. And we have been. We are being traumatized daily, and we don't recognize that we are being traumatized daily.

[Andrew Martinez]

You mean like news or just.

[Gabrielle Union]

Whether it's the news or just things that are happening to us that are devastating, that we're. That we're not expecting, and you can't predict how it's going to land in your body. Right. You know, like, my husband grew up. Oh, that guy's dead on the street. Oh, you know, parents dealing with addiction and what comes with that, like the. The uncertainty of childhood. Everything is on the table. Basically, anything could happen at any time that can leave you traumatized and how it manifests. It may progress to PTSD or not, but there's a lot more people that can benefit from these therapies than probably. Who would think that they could?

[Andrew Martinez]

But wait, so what is the difference between that and regular therapy?

[Gabrielle Union]

So I've been in regular therapy literally three days after my assault. Right. Workman's comp kicked right in and I started seeing a therapist to help deal with it. But it's therapy that's not like specializing in trauma in that kind of trauma. So it got me to where it was like a band aid but on a gusher. So it got me till the next week, but I wasn't seeing any progress. I've been in therapy for 33 years, but I wasn't. I didn't feel like I was getting better. I have. So, like, the anxiety would be a full body anxiety and because I'm a full now. No, not since I completed the session, which is insane because I just. That's how long ago I completed it? Beginning of October.

[Andrew Martinez]

But that's a long. So you've been carrying that for all.

[Gabrielle Union]

Those years and it just becomes a normal part of your body. But then, you know, health issues and you're not realizing that it's slowly killing you at the same time.

[Andrew Martinez]

Wow.

[Gabrielle Union]

So not only did I was able to find what peace feels like in my body, my health improved dramatically. Like night and day. Like the. You don't. I didn't understand how much that kind of Anxiety was inflaming my body was exacerbating the autoimmune.

[Andrew Martinez]

That's so fascinating to me, Gab, because all these years, I feel like you've done so much work on yourself and therapy and all the things. I feel like you've done all the things.

[Gabrielle Union]

That's what it was. I thought that was the best case scenario. I didn't think it could be better. Like, I'm doing everything I can function. Like I'm not, you know, in a padded cell.

[Andrew Martinez]

But there was something I was gonna say for you to go searching for that, there had to still be something.

[Gabrielle Union]

Well, I heard about it. I'd heard about the NIMA treatments, and I was like, I wonder if that. That would work for me. And the more I learned about it, I was like. And it's. It's like therapists, you know, Driven, centered. And I was like, can I invest? Can I be not only a client, but the player president? Like, I want it in. Because I'm like, if this works for me, I want to scream it from the rooftops that it could work for anybody else. And it changed everything. And it's. You get homework every night. Like, the homework might be, like, an hour, almost as long as the session. And it's, like, reaffirming your safety. And when I felt safe enough to allow peace in, now I don't want to let it go. So, like.

[Andrew Martinez]

So then what shifts? Like, what has changed in you since that?

[Gabrielle Union]

The immediacy of the panic, the immediacy of the terror. It's like, if we were to go out, like, golf, right?

[Andrew Martinez]

Yeah.

[Gabrielle Union]

If I hate for somebody to have to come correct me. Right. So if we didn't have the right. Whatever, collared shirt, or it's not tucked in, or we don't have a belt, whatever the rules are at the golf course, I would live with anxiety that someone's gonna come up and say something to me, and I'm gonna be disciplined, and I wouldn't be able to enjoy myself. But you guys might not notice. Cause it's just what was normal to me in my body. Like, a state of, like, full terror. And now it's the absence of this. And I was like, is this peace? Because I don't want to ever not have peace. I'm like, obviously, it's life. So bad things are gonna happen. Adversity's gonna happen. You might not have a script the day you're supposed to be shooting 10 pages. It's gonna be all right. We'll figure it out. It doesn't have to be feeling like I'm being actively hunted.

[Andrew Martinez]

Wow. Yeah. The fact that you've been feeling that felt that way for so long because you don't present that way at all.

[Gabrielle Union]

That's why everyone's like, you don't really give me, you know, like, someone who's anxious. And I was like, because I don't have the option of looking anxious, but that's what's happening.

[Andrew Martinez]

And also because you've been managing it for so long that you manage it well.

[Gabrielle Union]

Well, it's normal now.

[Andrew Martinez]

Right. So you know how to put a face on and you know how to work through it, but you still feel.

[Gabrielle Union]

It, like, throughout my whole body. Like, stomach issues, heart issues. It was manifesting in literally out of every pore.

[Andrew Martinez]

Wow.

[Gabrielle Union]

And I was like, so wait, there's another way. And so when I completed it, I was like, okay, is this gonna stick? And I'm also like, when people come up and I can't see them, like, the feeling of being startled is like, you might as well have a gun to my head. Like, just somebody saying, hey, it's nice to meet you. But if I don't see them coming, it's like, you know, inside. Inside. But what ends up happening is I'm like, it's so great to meet you. But inside, it's just, you know, so I could tell the first time somebody came up to me and I couldn't see them.

[Andrew Martinez]

Wow.

[Gabrielle Union]

And I was just like, it's nice to meet you. And it wasn't the full body jolt that.

[Andrew Martinez]

That was recently. Just recently?

[Gabrielle Union]

Yeah, in the last few months, you know, going to Rome, that makes me.

[Andrew Martinez]

Feel like, well, first of all, my God, it's like a lesson for, like, we don't even know what our people, our friends, people close to us. I mean, you. You know, some things that I've shared with you about my life, and I have the same thing as you. I have to show up for work. I gotta do this. So sometimes you have the worst day. But. But we know how to show up and deliver and do the things. But it's just. I don't know, hearing you say that, that's like. It's just really a testament to, like, really. You do not know what's going on inside other people's bodies or inside other people's kind of traumas or just their internal voices that they have going on. And we could miss it by so much. And we're so quick to judge people, how they behave. Or somebody could see you in that moment. Somebody could have just done that to you and not be thrilled with how you greeted them. Not having no idea of the trauma that you were feeling inside when it.

[Gabrielle Union]

Makes people feel bad. Like, you walk up to somebody that you want to say hello to, and they're like, you know, I mean, it's kind of hard to continue after that.

[Andrew Martinez]

Yeah. You're like, never mind. Sorry.

[Gabrielle Union]

Yeah. And I was like, no, no, no. I just got startled. I'm sorry.

[Andrew Martinez]

Well, this is a big deal then. This is a big shift.

[Gabrielle Union]

It's a. It's a major shift. And, like, to feel at peace in my body in the midst of chaos, but I don't succumb to the chaos is huge, and it's new, and I'm like, I'm not going back.

[Andrew Martinez]

So what are the perks of that? Like, is, like, life better?

[Gabrielle Union]

Like, everything. Like, there's. Everything's better, everything's better, and I'm not. I just. Still. Okay, you know, like Mel Robbins says, let them.

[Andrew Martinez]

Let them.

[Gabrielle Union]

I'm like, okay, you think X, Y, and Z about me. Okay. Life didn't change. But thank you for taking time out of your day to tell me how awful I am. But, like, I don't care. I don't care. That's not something I'm going to give energy or attention to.

[Andrew Martinez]

But you did before.

[Gabrielle Union]

You know, I generally don't scroll past the first three comments for the most part. So if I go looking for it, you're going to find somebody to tell you about yourself, and you're going to read something that someone said that you actually feel about yourself, and you'll spin out and you're. Oh, my God, is it. Am I that transparent? Like, are people seeing every flaw that I feel like I have? And it just. It could ruin your day, could ruin your week, and now I don't care.

[Andrew Martinez]

God bless. It makes me realize how brave you are, though, because you've made choices in your own life. You've made choices. Your family has made choices to live their lives truthfully and publicly and publicly. So to know that it would affect you that much, but you still made the choice.

[Gabrielle Union]

Because I. To live in truth, I may have been a prisoner to ptsd, but I will never be a prisoner to the fuckery. I'm just. I won't. You know, I'm one of those see something, say something people. I need the freedom of truth. I need the freedom to tell the truth, to hear the truth, to hold your hand when you're dealing. You know what I mean? But If I'm in that other space of pretending and always, you know, having to. To be on it doesn't really allow for you to be human. You know what I mean? And I'm just not willing to go back. It feels too good for you.

[Andrew Martinez]

Did I just kick you? Sorry, Boo Boo.

[Gabrielle Union]

It feels too good to be fully in my body and fully present. And so no matter how hard it is, you know, no matter how many. How many times the FBI calls you and it's like, you know, you and your family are on a hit list.

[Andrew Martinez]

Is that a real thing?

[Gabrielle Union]

It's absolutely a real thing. But that's what comes with truth telling, you know? But there's also that other price to pay. But I just. I just can't. I can't be put into a gilded cage. I don't know. I watch too many people that I know and love who have so much to offer and have so many amazing things to say, put themselves in a gilded cage, you know? So afraid. Deathly afraid. I mean, and there's things to be afraid of.

[Andrew Martinez]

Yeah.

[Gabrielle Union]

You know what I mean? Death threats are weird. It's a weird sensation. And it's like, if it's just me, but my baby has to die, that's something. And I don't think people really understand the. The weight of truth telling in this day and age.

[Andrew Martinez]

Yeah. Talk to me about that.

[Gabrielle Union]

Being at trying to lead from the front all the time. I mean, the first one to the microphone, the first one who says something, the most fierce and ferocious advocate and activist. And then my health took a big hit. You know, it took a big hit. And for years, it took us a while, process of elimination, to figure out what was actually going on in my body and that I was being ravaged by an autoimmune issue that is exacerbated by stress and anxiety. And it was just me always feeling like I gotta always be 10 toes down on everything. I was dying slowly.

[Andrew Martinez]

I had no idea. Yeah.

[Gabrielle Union]

Yeah. Because it's like for a long time we didn't know what exactly it was. So it's like MRIs and scans and biopsies and this and that and the other. And like you're waiting for the results. And they're like, well, it's not cancer. You're like, okay, well. Well, what is it? They're like, it's a mask. You're like, okay, thanks. Insert more anxiety. But I'm supposed to not have anxiety, so I'm not in health. It's been the last four years.

[Andrew Martinez]

Yeah.

[Gabrielle Union]

So finally, again, Kind of close to, like, October getting on the right medication to deal with, you know, some of these issues. But when you're in it, you know, people don't understand, like, inflammation. Crazy. Inflammation can literally make your face look like a circle. And it's not gonna be the most symmetrical. You know what I mean? So it could be bigger over here. Or this could be bigger. Or this part of my lip is swollen, and they're like, ah, bad filler. And I'm like. Or I'm slowly dying. But get your jokes off. Get your jokes off. Oh, she's ruined her face. And then now people see me and I'm like, I'm just not inflamed. You know, I'm not. My body is not trying to kill me. And they're like, oh, she's. She's. Let it settle.

[Andrew Martinez]

Okay, first of all, stop reading the damn comments.

[Gabrielle Union]

Okay?

[Andrew Martinez]

Stop reading the comments.

[Gabrielle Union]

You know, you don't do it.

[Andrew Martinez]

You don't live that way. Just for you, too. Like, as. How you say, you step out, you're advocate, and you stand for so many things also. I think you guys, as a family have done that, right? Like, you've made a conscious decision to be. To stand in your truth about private things, relationship, your. Your marriage, your surrogacy, your. I mean, so many things about your life. You've been on the front lines, kind of like presenting as, hey, guys, this is okay.

[Gabrielle Union]

It's okay. It happens to everybody. You know what I mean? And you don't have to throw your children out, you know, if they're not exactly how you imagine them to be, talking to people. And they're like, I just. I mean, what will my family say? What will my church say? What will these people say? And I'm like, that's your best child.

[Andrew Martinez]

You mean of. Of trans or trans kids?

[Gabrielle Union]

Queer kids. Family of doctors. Kid wants to be an engineer. And it's like, this isn't life and death.

[Andrew Martinez]

Yeah.

[Gabrielle Union]

Still your baby.

[Andrew Martinez]

Yeah.

[Gabrielle Union]

You love them, love them, support them. You're supposed to be the sanctuary.

[Andrew Martinez]

Yeah.

[Gabrielle Union]

Not the hell that they're escaping.

[Andrew Martinez]

Yeah.

[Gabrielle Union]

But it could be literally about anything. Yeah. And right is right and wrong is wrong. And to me, it's not that hard. But I understand when people don't.

[Andrew Martinez]

Yeah.

[Gabrielle Union]

Because there is a price. You may not work again. Your life may be threatened. Your family's lives may be threatened. And you may not be well versed enough to lead the charge. But there's other ways of participating in resistance. You know, I talk about leading from the Front leading from the middle. You could be an organizer, keeping all of us together in the middle. You could be pushing from the back and holding the line. There's. You don't have to always be front facing. But in this day and age of performative activism is like, if you didn't post it, it's not happening in our situation because of. I don't want to hear from the FBI anymore about which group has a. We're on a hit list on. I do. I move differently. And you may not see or hear about every move, but you know me, you know my heart. I think my history speaks for itself and my reputation speaks for itself. But also I. I needed to get better. You know when they say, you gotta put your oxygen mask on first and then, man.

[Andrew Martinez]

So living this way was literally eating away at your body.

[Gabrielle Union]

Yeah. Like, I can't be in that state all the time, you know? And I don't have control of every situation. Like, El Boog was on your show. Lauren, Lauren, Lauren, El Boog.

[Andrew Martinez]

We love Elle Boogie.

[Gabrielle Union]

I watched that episode like, ooh, gems. And I was hitting Lauren. I'm like, yo, when you said this, this and that, she's like, okay, I'm gonna come over and we're gonna sit in your backyard and we're gonna talk about this. And what was it? It's about, like, the control element, the need for control and feeling like you always have to chime in or offer advice. And is the advice really for the other person or is it for you to have some control, some semblance of control, trying to control situations?

[Andrew Martinez]

We talked about that in my episode with her.

[Gabrielle Union]

Whatever you guys talked about, that's what led to that. Yeah, it led to that. And she was like, unless they specifically ask for your opinion, don't offer it. People need to. To come to their truth, how they come to it. And it's not up to us to steer them in any one direction because then we have to get into our need for control. What is that about? You know what I mean?

[Andrew Martinez]

Like, I love that you saw our conversation. And I mean, I know you know her and you have a relationship with her, but I love that it sparked another conversation that literally.

[Gabrielle Union]

No, it sparked a lot of conversations. She was there for a few hours.

[Andrew Martinez]

Wow.

[Gabrielle Union]

And just there's a wisdom that she has gleaned from her life that she has just, you know, she has so much to offer. And you really.

[Andrew Martinez]

Oh, it was my first. One of my favorites. Yeah, for sure. I learned so much from that. Somebody was just asking Me the other day about, like, they always ask, what's your favorite enemy? I'm like, I can't say. It's really hard to. It's just. We're all just trying, man. We're all just like, I'm trying to do a show. She's trying to survive her situation, and she's learned so much along the way. And to me, like, that's all we could do, is show up with what we have to offer on that day, share our experiences in a way that we hope hope lands in a positive way for someone else.

[Gabrielle Union]

And I mean, well, none of us should be having to suffer in silence or feel like you're suffering alone. Like, no one could possibly understand this. It's like, it helps to talk about it, you know, whether it's, like, sparked from a podcast. It's like, I think I need help with this. How do you move through the world? How do you get up every day? What does joy look like to you? What does justice look like to you? Like, how do you have tools? You know what I mean?

[Andrew Martinez]

And it's crazy because we have to learn those and ask those questions for ourselves. But then you take you, for instance, or any of us who are moms now, you. You also have to do it as a parent. And I. And you as a mother, I think is an interesting topic, because, no, you're really a lovely mother. Like, you worked so hard to be a mother, and you're like this amazing mother, not only to Kaavia, but to all of your kids, your bonus children. I don't know what you call them. Do you call them step kids? Just your kids. They're just the kids. Yeah, but, I mean, you worked to be a mother. It wasn't just the easy. For some women, it's too easy. It's like they get pregnant, Somebody give flirts with them, and they're pregnant. Like, you really worked for that and struggled. And then. And you do it in such a meaningful, intentional kind of way. Just watching you with Kav, and I just wonder what it's changed for you, what you've learned about yourself just becoming a mom.

[Gabrielle Union]

And, well, you know, there are. They watch every single thing, right? Like Kav said the other day, why do you wear wigs all the time? And I was like, well, mommy goes to work, and I have to be different characters. And sometimes I wear wigs to try it out before I commit to the look. She was like, oh, you know? But in her mind, why wasn't I happy with how I looked when I preached that to her, you know what I mean? I'm like, I love your curls. Oh, my gosh, your hair is so beautiful. And she was like, yeah, I think your hair is beautiful too. How come you got a wig on? You know what I mean?

[Andrew Martinez]

She gonna check you.

[Gabrielle Union]

She gonna check me, boo. And, like, there was one day, it was me, her and Dee driving the car, and I was like, oh, can you wear your hair, like, half up, half down? Like, that's, like, one of my favorite looks. And she was like, I don't really want to do that. And I was like, oh, come on, can you do? She was like, I thought it was my hair. And Dee goes, ooh. But I'm teaching her how to advocate for herself and have agency over her own body. And, you know, if this. It's her hair, who cares? It's not like, you know, but that figuring out, like, when do you, like, force your will on your child? And when do you offer options? Just so trying to find those balances.

[Andrew Martinez]

Yeah.

[Gabrielle Union]

And also, you know, she's very much a leader at home, but at school, she can follow the crowd. And helping her find her voice where I'm like, you know, you don't have to do that just because your friend told you to. Yeah, I want her to play with me at recess. I was like, ooh, it starts early, you know, do this so we can be friends. Do that so I can love you. Do this, you know, and it's like, it seems like, well, it's harmless, you know, but it's a pattern where you start just being people pleasing, shape shifting to fit in and shape shifting and doing whatever people pleasing to get the invite to have access. And it's like, oof. Once you start, it's hard to stop.

[Andrew Martinez]

She's so great, though.

[Gabrielle Union]

She's awesome.

[Andrew Martinez]

Do you ever worry about her? Because I look at, like, the famous kids, Blue Ivy and North, and you. I see the way they. People talk to these children. Children. Then they have so many people have opinions about children.

[Gabrielle Union]

So many opinions.

[Andrew Martinez]

Do you worry about that for you even Zaya, because she's been such. Like, she's a poster child somewhat at this point. Like, do you have a. I don't know, concerns or regrets of being. Having them so public?

[Gabrielle Union]

But with Ziya, that was her choice. She did not like people dead naming her. And we were like, we can correct people, but it kind of opens up a whole other can of worms. And she was like, I want them to use my name. And we were like, okay, well, this is how we could do this, but it's really going to open up a whole can of worms. Like, you can't, you know, put back. Put it back. And she was very determined, and so that sort of opened the door for her speaking out and being very clear about her identity and her confidence and comfort in it. And we support her being her full, true self. We would have probably been more comfortable where, you know, she waited a couple years, but it's years of her parents doing a ton of interviews where they're speaking of her with a name that she does not recognize. And so I respect it. I absolutely respect it. And every kid is different. Like. Like, every child is different. And, you know, it is. It is what it is. And you. You rally. You know what I mean? You offer support like Kav. Because I had talked so much about my infertility, and we were so overjoyed, and so many people, like, strangers wanted me to be pregnant so badly, and I would like. And, you know, I remember there we were on our way to some event in New York, and I was, you know, I think I was in the middle of an IVF cycle, and I looked two months pregnant, like, or second trimester pregnant. And people, like, the Page Six was like, she's pregnant. And people were so happy. And it led to a miscarriage. You know, it didn't lead to. Obviously, it didn't lead to a live birth. And so when she was finally born and home, I was like, I want to share with people that, you know, keep hope alive. And here's our beautiful baby. And this is the route I had to go. And these are the reasons. And then she just had such funny faces.

[Andrew Martinez]

I know she's such a good personality.

[Gabrielle Union]

You know, and now she does it on her own. And it's like, we're like, kavi, you want to post this? No. Okay. And it's less than what it was, obviously, when she was little, and it's really her choice. And usually she chooses, like, she doesn't want to. No, we respect it.

[Andrew Martinez]

Yeah.

[Gabrielle Union]

Keep it pushing.

[Andrew Martinez]

Hey, guys. Today's show is brought to you by our presenting sponsor, Hard Rock BET Florida Sportsbook. If you haven't signed up yet for Hard Rock Bet, there has never been a better time than right now to do that. New signups can double their winnings on their first 10 bets, maximum $50.

[Gabrielle Union]

That's right.

[Andrew Martinez]

So if you would have made a hundred bucks on your bet, now you'll make 200 bucks on your bet. It's pretty great. The Hard Rock BET Sportsbook app is the only legal sportsbook in Florida. And it's also live in Arizona, Ohio, New Jersey, Indiana, Tennessee, Virginia, Illinois, Colorado and Michigan. Coming soon to more states, too. So plus, Hard Rock Bet offers new promos daily. So whenever you're listening or watching, you just open the app and check out what you've got. Any day of the week, download the Hard Rock Bet app and make your first deposit today. Offered by the Seminole Tribe of Florida in Florida. Offered by Seminole Hard Rock Digital, LLC and other states. Must be 21 or older and physically present in Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, New Jersey, Ohio, Tennessee or Virginia. To play, terms and conditions apply. Concerned about gambling in Florida, call 1833 play wise in Indiana. If someone you or you know has a gambling problem and wants help, call 1-800-9 with it gambling problem, call 1-800- gambler in Arizona, Colorado, Illinois, Michigan, New Jersey, Ohio, Tennessee or Virginia. All right, what about marriage? What have you learned about marriage that.

[Gabrielle Union]

You don't know about?

[Andrew Martinez]

Is that true? Even now? How many years are you?

[Gabrielle Union]

10.

[Andrew Martinez]

You're plus 10, right?

[Gabrielle Union]

You're 10, 11 years. But it's like marriage is this living, breathing thing that you have to feed and nurture, and you don't always have the time to be great at it. And on those days, as you're trying to take shortcuts are probably the days you had to suck. You were supposed to suck it up and offer more grace and offer more kindness or companionship. And people are like, oh, marriage goals other than us being honest about our marriage, you gotta figure out what works for your marriage. And each one is very unique. Like, I don't know anybody who has a marriage like ours. And it's not. Cause we're, you know, whatever. It's like we were. I don't know what that was like, you know, whatever. People, whatever. People like to think about it. But like, we're very. Our schedules. We miss each other a lot. And we miss each other a lot. So, like, our time together is like, literally legs, like, all intertwined. Like, we are physically touching all the time. You know, joined at the hip. And then I'm in Rome for three weeks and, you know, whatever. So our level of communication had to improve. You know what I mean? And we try not to hang out with other couples who don't like each other.

[Andrew Martinez]

Oh, that's.

[Gabrielle Union]

You know, I mean. Because that shit is contagious.

[Andrew Martinez]

Yeah.

[Gabrielle Union]

You know what I mean? You get. And that, you know, previously we. There might be circles where they're like, ugh, this bitch. It's like this right here.

[Andrew Martinez]

Like.

[Gabrielle Union]

And then you kind of fall in. Because that's how you guys are communicating as friends. Like, you're complaining as communication. And then you go home, you're like, ugh. You know what I mean? Because that's just what you were with. You know, when we talk about vacations, are you. You know, we've all vacationed together, but you gotta have other couples who are at least on the same page. It's obviously your relationship is gonna be different, but I need you to, like, this motherfucker. Like, don't come on vacation and you want to complain, you know, I mean, shit. Like, I like this man.

[Andrew Martinez]

That is contagious.

[Gabrielle Union]

Yeah. Like, so surrounding yourself.

[Andrew Martinez]

You actually like your husband, right?

[Gabrielle Union]

I like him a lot. Like, he's literally my favorite person.

[Andrew Martinez]

Oh, my God, that's so cute.

[Gabrielle Union]

Like, we talk all day long, but it's like, half the time we talk in memes and gifts.

[Andrew Martinez]

Yeah.

[Gabrielle Union]

You know what I mean?

[Andrew Martinez]

But that's how it has to start, though. It starts with that, right? Yeah.

[Gabrielle Union]

Like, we were in Japan for two weeks and just having, like, adventures, you.

[Andrew Martinez]

Know, just the two of us.

[Gabrielle Union]

Just the two of us. Have the time of our lives. I mean, granted, we ran into Michael B. Jordan and Steelo, but.

[Andrew Martinez]

Oh, not bad.

[Gabrielle Union]

Yeah. Hung out with them for New Year's. But, like, we had our own adventure. It was great.

[Andrew Martinez]

I think that's a big key to getting it right, is just picking somebody that you like, get over it.

[Gabrielle Union]

You know, like, if you get into an argument with your friend.

[Andrew Martinez]

Yeah.

[Gabrielle Union]

If you really, really like them, you get over it. Like, you figure out how to communicate through, you know, the tough spots. Because, like, half of our arguments, like, I'll be so pissed, but then I want to tell them something, or I got a joke. I'm like, okay, we have to make up just so I can get this joke off. But I don't know. That's so true. We have figured it out for us.

[Andrew Martinez]

And he adores you the same way that you adore him.

[Gabrielle Union]

Like, when I look up and he's looking at me, and it's like, that's so cute. It's kind of like the best because it's like the person I want, whose eyes I want on me. You know what I mean? And that's pretty great. I like him. Look at him. He was gonna miss the premiere because, you know, his coaches. His college coach is being honored at Marquette, and he, you know, he was supposed to be there and. For the goat. Yeah. He was gonna Miss the goat premiere. And he's in it, like, you know, and then he was like, I'll be there.

[Andrew Martinez]

And I was like, wait, he's in it, too?

[Gabrielle Union]

Yeah, he's a voice.

[Andrew Martinez]

He's the voice.

[Gabrielle Union]

He's a voice. I mean, there's a lot of voice.

[Andrew Martinez]

There's a lot of voice.

[Gabrielle Union]

Who.

[Andrew Martinez]

Are there other voices besides.

[Gabrielle Union]

I mean, Steph is a voice. He's the giraffe. Caleb McLachlan. He's from Stranger Things. He's the main voice. Aaron Pierre, Jennifer Hudson, Jennifer Lewis, Nick Kroll podcast.

[Andrew Martinez]

That's a lot of people.

[Gabrielle Union]

Yeah, it's so many voices.

[Andrew Martinez]

What a cute little concept, though, the.

[Gabrielle Union]

Goat, I think it's just so relatable. And it's like this little goat who, you know, believes. And the goat is like, the goat. The movie is based on. Loosely based on Steph's, you know, career. Because when I first met Steph, he was just. It was his rookie year, and him and Aisha were, you know, joined at the hip. I mean, the same. They have been. I was gonna say, that's been a.

[Andrew Martinez]

Good couple for you guys to hang out with.

[Gabrielle Union]

Yeah. And we have randomly, like, randomly.

[Andrew Martinez]

I think they really like each other.

[Gabrielle Union]

They very much like each other, and they're very much in alignment. You know what I mean? So it's interesting to listen to the commentary because you're like, clearly you've never been around them. Ain't nobody loved Steph more than Aisha. Ain't nobody loved Aisha more than Steph. Like, he's such a good egg, and he does a great job. Yeah, he does a really great job as a voice actor.

[Andrew Martinez]

All right, so we have. We have a couple IRL questions for you and IRL bowl so we can get into your real life philosophies. But first, we have a voice note. This is our Boost Mobile voice note, where someone comes in, leaves you a voice message or a question.

[Gabrielle Union]

Okay.

[Andrew Martinez]

I don't really know what it is. We have to listen to it first.

[Gabrielle Union]

Hey, Gab, it's shy girl. How do you protect your boundaries? See, I'm a thug, but I'm a nice one, and I forgive way too much. So I want to know, how are you forgiving but still making sure that people don't cross you? Because it never gave doormat. For real? For real.

[Andrew Martinez]

It never gave doormat.

[Gabrielle Union]

I feel like we talked about this a little bit in Miami a couple weeks ago. I had to learn that when it comes to access opportunities, money, that people will always be cheering for you. But if their access, money, whatever, is threatened, that they can turn on you. And when you watch people that you thought you could trust, like, show what really matters and it's not you, it's devastating. And you realize, like, I had no boundaries because, like, you know me. Like, if. If we ride, like, we are riding till the wheels fell off, like, I will go to battle. Like, that's just how I move with my friends. If we're close enough.

[Andrew Martinez]

Yeah.

[Gabrielle Union]

Where, like, I'll physically fight somebody for you, then it is what it is. There are no boundaries. You know what I mean? But I've had to figure out how to love you from across the street. Like. But also part of having boundaries is if you're in my life and, you know, people make mistakes, things happen, and you can't own your shit. You have no place in my life. I cannot do no accountability. I can't. I don't. And I don't need, like, a whole operation. I just. Oh, my bad. You know what? My bad.

[Andrew Martinez]

Sorry. Apologies.

[Gabrielle Union]

Sorry. And it's like.

[Andrew Martinez]

It's really hard for some people, by the way. It's, like, impossible.

[Gabrielle Union]

We had this conversation on set the other day, and I'm like. And it's a scene. These are fake people. These people do not exist. And, like, the guys were like, no, he apologized. I said, no, the apology was. And for that, I apologize. He was wrong for the whole thing. Why do you. Why you guys don't hear, like, the. I apologize for that. When the issue is the whole thing was wrong. Why do you have to qualify your apology? Why can't you just admit to being wrong? Why can't this character admit that he lied? Well, he didn't lie. I'm like, well, he didn't tell the truth. When asked, what do you call that? The omission of the truth is. It's a fallacy. It's a lie. Same shit.

[Andrew Martinez]

Yeah.

[Gabrielle Union]

Why does it. Like, what. These are fake characters. Why won't you guys. What is the issue? And I'm like, what do you think happens inside when you just own your. And then we got on this conversation, and it dawned on me. When people refuse to be accountable, especially when they want to gaslight you, they want to control you. They want to control your movements, they want to control your. Your. Your. Your body. They want to control your reactions, and they want to control how you ultimately see them. And that's so devious. It's so manipulative, and it's. It's dark, and I'm just too Old to be dealing with this.

[Andrew Martinez]

And it's not uncommon.

[Gabrielle Union]

Oh, it's super common. And you let it slide. Cause that's not a big deal. But then it starts to add up, and it's like, you just never want to own your shit. I can't be around you because I can't trust you. You'll lie about. I saw you at Burger King, and you're like, I went to McDonald's. What is wrong with you? Now you're like, that's so. Like, I don't want you around any problem. Honesty and accountability is the barest of minimums. Ye. And then also, everybody doesn't need to be everywhere. Everyone doesn't need free access to every part of your life, especially people who cannot be trusted with your truth. And if everything that happens to me has to be somehow quantified for you in terms of money, in terms of opportunity, in terms of access, that's not a friend. That's. I feel like it's constantly. Everything is transactional.

[Andrew Martinez]

It's like a burden. Sounds like a burden.

[Gabrielle Union]

Yeah. And so I've had to learn how to create boundaries and understand what it is and understand what it isn't. And I was trying to make fetch happen with a lot of people and fetch people.

[Andrew Martinez]

I was talking about that the other day. Because you put people in boxes.

[Gabrielle Union]

Yeah. And it's okay.

[Andrew Martinez]

And some friends are like your friends that you have for play dates. Or there's friends that you have that are just a good time. Yeah.

[Gabrielle Union]

Like, great, let's go to the bar. Let's have a drink.

[Andrew Martinez]

I think where people fuck up is that you try to take a friend that's there for a good time, and you try to make them your person or you try. You miscategorize people in your life. And so it's important to kind of know why they're there and know what their role is in your life. I think is also an important thing with boundaries.

[Gabrielle Union]

You learn the second you say no who is really there for what. What people's reaction to no. Like, just a no if they lose their who that. I mean, that I don't know what other kind of sign you need. They reveal themselves. But also, like, I don't say yes to everything. I used to feel like I have to be everywhere and do everything, and I got to be. I got to be everything for everyone, and it left nothing for me. So just learning through trial and error. It's life. You're never gonna get it right. But just understanding that, like, you don't have to say yes to everything. You don't have to be everyone's everything, because you will end up at a deficit.

[Andrew Martinez]

Hey, guys. Support for this podcast is brought to you by Walden University. Have you ever thought to yourself, what if I could go after what I actually want and I could really make a difference? Well, you are not alone. And this is exactly why I wanted to you about Walden University. For over 50 years, Walden has helped working adults like you get the w with the knowledge, the skills, and everything you need to build the future that you want. And you can make a difference where it matters most. If you've been waiting for the right moment, this is it. Head to waldenu. Edu and take that first step. Walden University set a course for change. Certified to operate by Shiv. Okay, in real life life, let's do bowl. This is our IRL bowl of questions. In real life, Gabrielle Union, let's see what you get. And our IRL bowl is brought to you by Walden University. Is it good or no?

[Gabrielle Union]

Well, there's the real answer. And then what I'm gonna. I would say I would like the real one. I cannot.

[Andrew Martinez]

Okay, what is the question? You.

[Gabrielle Union]

Because you know the answer. But what do you do to decompress after a long day? The answer I will share is that I like to sit or lay in silence. Like, I just need 15 minutes of no sound.

[Andrew Martinez]

Do you really do this every day?

[Gabrielle Union]

Yeah, yeah. Usually it's after Kav goes to bed. So it's like she goes to bed at 7:30. We increased it an hour. So once she goes to bed, I feel like I've lost the war. And I just get in my bed and I lay there in silence. And Dee respects it.

[Andrew Martinez]

Oh, it's like a known thing in the house.

[Gabrielle Union]

Yeah. Like, I just need a minute to just.

[Andrew Martinez]

Yeah, yeah.

[Gabrielle Union]

And for me, silence is so golden. I can hear my own thoughts. It just gives me a chance to just calm down.

[Andrew Martinez]

I must try.

[Gabrielle Union]

And then I step out on the.

[Andrew Martinez]

Balcony and do whatever else you need to do for yourself. All right, take one more. Let's do one more while we pick a good one.

[Gabrielle Union]

If you could instantly master a skill, what would it be? Listen, if I could sing. Look how you just lit up. Sang.

[Andrew Martinez]

Oh, sing.

[Gabrielle Union]

Like, I practiced for, like, eight months to sing this one song for our anniversary. And it was the hardest. I mean, the respect I have for singers.

[Andrew Martinez]

Wait, what did you sing again?

[Gabrielle Union]

Shania Twain.

[Andrew Martinez]

Oh, that's right.

[Gabrielle Union]

And. Cause it was. It's. It could. Like, it was one of the first. You Know when you meet somebody, tell.

[Andrew Martinez]

This story for somebody who doesn't know.

[Gabrielle Union]

I did not take him seriously. You know what I mean? Like, I was doing the most, and I just didn't take him seriously. So I kind of tortured him initially. I made him listen to the Jersey Boys soundtrack, like, on repeat. I was playing, like, country music hits. So one of the first songs I played for him when we met was, like, Shania Taine, Shania Twain, you're Still the one. And then it just became this reoccurring joke. Like, I wrap a movie. He hires, like, a choir and a band to sing, you're still the One, and give me flowers, like, before I head to the airport to come back home. Like, it's just, like a thing that.

[Andrew Martinez]

We did that was so cute.

[Gabrielle Union]

And. Yeah. And so I practiced with a vocal coach and then got in the studio and laid the track with, like, a full band. And I wanted to do, you know, do it special, but it's really hard, and I. That's not a skill I have.

[Andrew Martinez]

It's not a skill.

[Gabrielle Union]

You would never. I would never. Shut up.

[Andrew Martinez]

I'd be like, man, Jean, that's why you can't sing.

[Gabrielle Union]

That's why I can't do.

[Andrew Martinez]

That's why God didn't give me that gift. I would be the same way.

[Gabrielle Union]

Oh, I'd be obnoxious.

[Andrew Martinez]

That's funny. Because Valentine's Day is coming up. You guys are big. Like, you're festive. You do events like, what is the. What is Valentine's Day? What is the key to romance in your house to you.

[Gabrielle Union]

Valentine's Day got co opted, and it's been co opted our whole relationship because it falls over all star Weekend. But he, like, he does Valentine's Day throughout the year. So he'll send me flowers just because. Or he'll write me a poem. Or he'll just send the most beautiful letter. And you're like, who are you? Like, who are you right now? Like, for real?

[Andrew Martinez]

And it works.

[Gabrielle Union]

It works, honey. It works. It works.

[Andrew Martinez]

And what about you? What is your love language? Like, how do you show romance?

[Gabrielle Union]

Oh, I mean, his thing is physical touch so easily. Just cut to it. That's romantic, right?

[Andrew Martinez]

He's like, great, I love your.

[Gabrielle Union]

I love your version of romance.

[Andrew Martinez]

So whatever clearly is happening. Okay, on a scale of 1 to 10, how happy are you, Gab?

[Gabrielle Union]

Ooh. Today I'm a 10.

[Andrew Martinez]

Really? I love that. Yeah. And average.

[Gabrielle Union]

What would you say I'm now in the last few months? Like, eight? Like, I average. Like, A solid eight.

[Andrew Martinez]

Since learning how to be peaceful.

[Gabrielle Union]

And since learning, like, since teaching my body not to stay in a state of terror.

[Andrew Martinez]

Okay.

[Gabrielle Union]

Like, I find the joy in everything there's. Generally speaking, I get anxious before I do press runs because I'm honest, and I'm gonna say something that's gonna go viral, and then I gotta deal with that. And if you ask, I'm gonna, generally speaking, tell the truth. Except what I really do to decompress. And you just have to deal with your truth being out there and however people are gonna tweak it. And he goes, just have fun. He's like, it's fun. This is what we dreamt of. Have fun.

[Andrew Martinez]

Who said that?

[Gabrielle Union]

Dee.

[Andrew Martinez]

Oh, Dee.

[Gabrielle Union]

And I was like, so this morning, it's like 5am I'm like, I'm up. I didn't sleep, but I'm gonna have fun. And it's been fun. And knowing that it was ending, the day was gonna end with you.

[Andrew Martinez]

In real life, what should people care about less?

[Gabrielle Union]

Oh, what other people think of them.

[Andrew Martinez]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Gabrielle Union]

Because you will. I've seen so many people create a small life for themselves just so people don't have something to say. And you watch dreams like that, you know, they have never. They never even try because of the noise and because of this, because of that, and they just. Their lives end up smiling.

[Andrew Martinez]

I think that's probably way more common than.

[Gabrielle Union]

It's very common. Yeah. Or you do the safe thing, but not the thing you're passionate about, and you just kind of give up. And for what? And for what?

[Andrew Martinez]

For what?

[Gabrielle Union]

Somebody. Don't take advice from people who've never done what you've done.

[Andrew Martinez]

Yeah.

[Gabrielle Union]

Which is why, you know, I'm very glad Steph and Aisha never took my advice, because I was putting my bullshit onto them. You know what I mean? I was putting my fears about marriage. This is before they were married.

[Andrew Martinez]

Wait, what was it? I don't know.

[Gabrielle Union]

This one day, I'll tell you this full story, but I offered some stupid advice, kind of like, what, publicly? No. We were at a party, and I was like, let me tell you how it's gonna go. Cause of course, I've been drinking. And luckily, they were like, okay, that's. Thanks, Gab. And then didn't take my advice. And they're happy and successful, and they did their family route their way at their pace. What worked for them. But had he listened to me or she had listened to me, they wouldn't be the Curries that we know. And I needed to shut the fuck up. Most people need to shut the fuck up. You know what I mean? Like, shut the fuck up. You literally don't know what you're talking about. And we center ignorance in our decision making, and it's the quickest route to have a small life that you will never find joy in. He didn't even try. You didn't even try.

[Andrew Martinez]

You didn't even try. You gotta try. You don't have to. You know, we have Tisha Campbell coming up in. Was it next week or the week after? And I know. I don't know why her name keeps coming up. Like, I just had Tasha Smith on who said Tisha, the beginning of Tasha's career, let her stay at her sleep in her house and showed her what was possible. But she also had an impact in your life, right?

[Gabrielle Union]

Yeah. No, I mean, when I first got into Hollywood, I'm so lucky that my OGs took my sanity and protecting me very serious.

[Andrew Martinez]

Who are your OGs?

[Gabrielle Union]

Tisha Tichina and Regina King. And they just took that. Their privilege and they put a bubble around me and so many of us. And Tisha and her former spouse invited me and my former spouse.

[Andrew Martinez]

They have no names. They will never. They will not be named.

[Gabrielle Union]

Up to their. Up to their. Their camp, their house in the. In the. In Big Bear or whatever. And she recognized that I was struggling, and she was like, gab, are you seeking therapy? Have you ever had a black therapist? A black woman therapist? And I was like, if it's out of co pay, like, if it's out of my. You know, I can't afford that.

[Andrew Martinez]

Because you're a young actress at this point.

[Gabrielle Union]

I'm a young actress. Yeah. And I'm like, I can't afford out of pocket. Like, it's got to be, you know, and she was like, there will. That will never be an excuse for you. She's like, I got it. And she paid for the first. I mean, it was a lot of sessions with the therapist. I still have to this day.

[Andrew Martinez]

She paid for it.

[Gabrielle Union]

For it. She paid for me to go repeatedly. Like, a lot of sessions. Like, a lot.

[Andrew Martinez]

What did she see in you? What did she see that she was that.

[Gabrielle Union]

Like, I was circling the drain in it, and she didn't want that for me. And she just constantly held my hand through different life transitions, and she just. She just wasn't interested in watching me fail. You know what I mean? And that's just the person that she is, and she's done it for so many people.

[Andrew Martinez]

Oh, my God, I keep hearing, I.

[Gabrielle Union]

Can'T wait to sit with her. She's done it for so many people. Like, Jennifer will be like, you know, for a very long time. She called me Bobby. But Bobby, if you're gonna be a bitch, be a lovable bitch. Say it with love, dammit. But she, she'll pull your coattails. And they offer, they use their, their privilege as protection, you know. That's good to hear. Not everybody was doing that. You know, there's some people who are like, burn, you know, like, fail, bitch, fail. But they, they didn't. And Tisha, she, she extended so much grace and kindness and opened her wallet. It.

[Andrew Martinez]

Wow.

[Gabrielle Union]

It wasn't just like, you should get therapy.

[Andrew Martinez]

Good luck to you.

[Gabrielle Union]

She was like, nope, there's no excuses. You're going to get the help that you need. And she just paid for it just because.

[Andrew Martinez]

Why, why did she think that she.

[Gabrielle Union]

Saw something in me? But she's just a kind, very thoughtful person.

[Andrew Martinez]

That's amazing.

[Gabrielle Union]

And you know, when like black Hollywood, you know, it's, it's, it's its own family, you know, and she wasn't an auntie. Like, she was in her 20s, you know, she's not, not that much older than me.

[Andrew Martinez]

Is this like her around McMartin time? Is she like popping at the.

[Gabrielle Union]

Yeah, she's like, she's, she's Tisha Campbell. Yeah. You know what I mean? She's Tisha motherfucking Campbell. And Tichina was. Tichina McFucking Arnold.

[Andrew Martinez]

Yeah.

[Gabrielle Union]

Regina King was Regina King. And they just weren't interested in watching us fall into traps, you know, get set up. Like, just, they just were like, no, not her, you know, not any of them that they had the ability to.

[Andrew Martinez]

And what about Regina?

[Gabrielle Union]

Regina is like my heart. Like, I almost like, I don't know why I was about to get teary eyed, but she's just been my, she's just been my heart. And it's hard watching her heart get ripped out of her chest. And we all grew up with Lil Ian and watching him, like at each milestone and it's hard. And you just try to be there for people in any way that they allow you to be. Can't dictate anyone else's grief. You can just be there. Yeah. But I think there's a reason we all feel so strongly about her because she feels so strongly about us and she showed the fuck up. You know what I mean? Like, there's people who are like, oh, I'm cool with such and such. Oh, I'm cool. Like, if I see you, it's love, but, like. Like, you know, but how.

[Andrew Martinez]

What does that mean? She showed up, like, for. What does that. A girl.

[Gabrielle Union]

I know you're under the bed. Like, I'm coming. I'm coming to get you. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not going to let you suffer. I'm not interested in watching you suffer. I'm interested in being a guiding hand and to offer safety and protection and guidance. You're just really about that life, you know, her and her sister Reina, like, I don't know. And then you get to know everyone's families and then, you know, like. But that's, you know, and then I try to be that same OG to the next generation. You know what I mean? Like, I've had that relationship with Keke, you know, with Keke Palmer and, you know, young folks, like, when Meg thee stallion got on the scene. And like, my little cousin Sweetie, we call her Dee Dee. But, like, if I gotta pull your coattails, if I'm. Or I gotta reach out and be like, this is my number. You can always reach me. Ain't shit that could happen that I haven't been through, you know, I'm here, you know, you just have to return the favor. I'm sure you had an og and then you. You offer that same thing. Like, I don't have to see you every day to know that you're a safe place in the storm.

[Andrew Martinez]

Yeah.

[Gabrielle Union]

You know what I mean?

[Andrew Martinez]

That's beautiful.

[Gabrielle Union]

Yeah.

[Andrew Martinez]

I think the thing with Regina, because she was on the pod too, and I obviously don't know her as well as you do, but we just love her. Like, you just. You know what I'm saying? Even from outside, who don't have an intimate relationship with her like you do, it's like to watch someone, anybody's heart be ripped out like, that is very painful to see. So as her friend, I can only imagine how.

[Gabrielle Union]

No, and there's a reason. You just see this outpouring because she has poured into so many people and wasn't keeping score, wasn't like, well, I did this for you. It's like she came on, like, one of her first directing gigs, unless it was her first, was on Being Mary Jane. And, you know, everyone has a moment. And I was having a little moment, a little bratty moment, and she, like, came to my trailer. She has a little thing of sunflower seeds. And she was like, you know, hand me some sunflower seeds. And she's like, basically, cut the shit. Cut the shit. I was like, I'm gonna cut the shit.

[Andrew Martinez]

You know what I mean?

[Gabrielle Union]

And you. Sometimes you need that too. You know, it's not always, you know, moonlight and roses. Sometimes you need, you know, an OG to be like, cut the shit. Have some sunflower series.

[Andrew Martinez]

Is that really what she said?

[Gabrielle Union]

That was dead ass, like, what she said. And we just sat on my, you know, the soup of my trailer and talked it out. And what were you going through?

[Andrew Martinez]

What was the thing?

[Gabrielle Union]

I mean, it was. It could have been anything. I know it wasn't, you know, life or death.

[Andrew Martinez]

Yeah.

[Gabrielle Union]

And, you know, sometimes you get a little puffed up. Number one on the call sheet. And sometimes you need to be reminded that this is a business. And you don't get to hijack the whole operation because you're in a mood. No, no. One person is more important than the whole. And cut the shit. Cut the shit. Gab. Have some sunflower seeds.

[Andrew Martinez]

I'm gonna bust that out on somebody.

[Gabrielle Union]

Because no one can turn down Brittany.

[Andrew Martinez]

Don't even think about bringing sunflower seeds to set, okay? You're gonna be like, don't even think about it. I love that, though.

[Gabrielle Union]

Yeah. But like.

[Andrew Martinez]

Like, being Mary Jane was.

[Gabrielle Union]

It's.

[Andrew Martinez]

When you look at the tent poles of your career, do you look at that as, like, super meaningful one?

[Gabrielle Union]

It really brought me back, you know? Cause you go through periods of, like, you work all the time to, like, not working all the time. You work all the time, not working all the time. And after I didn't get Scandal, which, you know, let's be clear, I was not close. Close. I was maybe down to, like, a handful. I just thought that was. That's the only opportunity we're gonna get to play a character like that. And I was so sad that there were just so few possibilities. Like, people weren't writing black female led shows. And then I met with Mara. It was. I don't even know if I've ever said this publicly, but I met with Mara and Saleem Akil on the day that Whitney died.

[Andrew Martinez]

Wow.

[Gabrielle Union]

And Whitney had been so supportive of me.

[Andrew Martinez]

Whitney Houston.

[Gabrielle Union]

Yeah.

[Andrew Martinez]

Wow.

[Gabrielle Union]

And it was just, like, shocking and it. But, you know, like, it was. It was. The whole thing was just surreal. And you just see all these people. The phones are going off. I think we were at the Four Seasons restaurant, and you just see all these people's phones going off. And, you know, of course, it's like, it was, like, around the Grammys, and it was like, this is surreal. And it hadn't been that Long before I was. I was hosting BET Honors, and there was, like, a glitch. You know, when you're hosting things, you gotta go out and, you know, do the. You know, schmooze the crowd. And I come out, and Whitney stands up and is, like, giving me this, like, standing solo standing ovation.

[Andrew Martinez]

Just her.

[Gabrielle Union]

Just her. And, you know, it just gave me, like, just enough to be like, okay. Like, I can do this. It's gonna be okay. I'm not just out here by myself. I'm with my community, and there's people who cheer for me, and that person happened to be Whitney Houston right in the front row. It was just. It was so. It was just a surreal day. And that was the day I got presented with being Mary Jane.

[Andrew Martinez]

Wow.

[Gabrielle Union]

And it was such a gift, you know, and to be able to play her for so many years and to have a destination, you know, as actors, you're like, I don't know where the next check is gonna come from. I don't know if that last job might have been the last job. And so to be able to grow with the character and do all the fun, crazy stuff that Mary Jane got to do and work with all of my friends. And so it was. I don't know. It was a great period of. In my life while in the midst of crazy chaos.

[Andrew Martinez]

I love that.

[Gabrielle Union]

Yeah.

[Andrew Martinez]

You don't think about how much something could. I guess it's just what's for you is for you and what's not. Because I could imagine the scandal thing.

[Gabrielle Union]

I mean, everyone and their mother was up for scandal. But, like, you're like, that is my only opportunity. I have not read anything like that. There probably will never be anything like that. I've been in the industry 20 years at that point or so, and it's like, okay, I guess we got one every generation.

[Andrew Martinez]

And you killed it.

[Gabrielle Union]

I killed it. And I was.

[Andrew Martinez]

I love that. You know, you killed this.

[Gabrielle Union]

No, that's like, listen, I am Mary Jane. Like, Bron called me Mary Jane for a very long time. He still does. It's fine. But no, that show really gave me a deeper roots in pop culture, in the community. And just as an artist, I got to make a ton of mistakes, and I got to correct as a woman, too. As a woman, as I was going through so many things, and I got to act a lot of that out when it didn't feel safe to cry or to. To throw a tantrum. In real life, Mary Jane could handle it the way she wanted to handle it. Yeah, you know, pretty great. But I loved him. Yeah, I loved that.

[Andrew Martinez]

We loved it, too. All right, but before we go, question. It's in the bowl. You didn't pick it. But I'll always ask you, if God were to text you today, what would it say?

[Gabrielle Union]

You got this.

[Andrew Martinez]

That's it.

[Gabrielle Union]

You got this. I got this.

[Andrew Martinez]

This.

[Gabrielle Union]

He got it.

[Andrew Martinez]

Really?

[Gabrielle Union]

He got it.

[Andrew Martinez]

Yeah. You got this. Why do you normally feel like you.

[Gabrielle Union]

Don'T, you know, you don't know? I don't know if I'm hitting it out of the park every day, you know, you don't know. But, like, having your faith and just knowing, like, as long as you have peace, you know that God is in you. You know what I mean? The absence of peace is like, you haven't made space for God and his grace, their grace. Like, I think of God as generalist, but, like, you know, so peace is the presence of God to me. And when you don't feel that peace, we haven't done. We haven't taken enough active steps to create space for his grace.

[Andrew Martinez]

And so the message was, what?

[Gabrielle Union]

You got this, you got this? Because he got this or they got this?

[Andrew Martinez]

They got this.

[Gabrielle Union]

You know, depends on how, you know, a lot of people use the feminine. So, you know, but I love that. Yeah.

[Andrew Martinez]

Gabrielle Union, everybody, in real life.

[Gabrielle Union]

Hey, this is Gabrielle Union in real life.

[Andrew Martinez]

Hey, guys, thanks for watching. Make sure you subscribe, like, comment and check out all of the other episodes we have on Andrew Martinez, IRL podcast. This is an I heart podcast.

[Gabrielle Union]

Guaranteed human.