Angie Martinez IRL - Tisha Campbell: Living Life Freely Without Your Mask

Summary

Podcast Summary: Joe and Jada / Angie Martinez IRL – Tisha Campbell: Living Life Freely Without Your Mask

Release Date: February 18, 2026
Host: Angie Martinez
Guest: Tisha Campbell

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Episode Overview

This episode of Angie Martinez IRL, featured on "Joe and Jada," deeply explores Tisha Campbell's journey to living authentically after decades as a celebrated actress, singer, and comedian. Best known for iconic roles like Gina on “Martin,” Tisha Campbell discusses the lifelong habit of “wearing a mask”—hiding her true self to meet expectations—her ongoing self-discovery, mental health, the unique challenges of motherhood (especially raising a child on the autism spectrum), career pivots into standup comedy, and her aspirations for love and personal fulfillment.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Wearing the Mask: Self-Discovery and Dropping Pretenses

• Tisha Campbell introduces the metaphor of “the mask” (00:32):
  “I wear a mask so much. … When I leave my house, if I leave my gate, I’m at work. So I’m always here. … It’s a little harder for me to wear the mask [now].”
• Turning point: AJ Johnson’s advice (02:16–04:13):
  AJ Johnson, her friend & “House Party” co-star, told her to “take off the mask.”
  “It was crazy because it literally, figuratively felt like everything just shattered onto the ground…”
  The realization was freeing but also initiated a period of depression.

The Cost of Caretaking and Women’s Emotional Labor

• A lifetime of putting others first (05:05–06:46):
  Tisha started working professionally at age 3 to help financially support her family in Newark.
  “Since I was five years old, I’ve been paying bills. … I knew that I had this gift that God had given me, but I was very aware of how poor we were. … I became everything for everyone and my well was dry.”
• Learning boundaries from her children (10:27):
  Her kids taught her the importance of boundaries, even with family:
  “You’re throwing us into trauma; we don’t want to do that.”

Coping With Depression and Rediscovering Joy

• Depression after removing the mask (08:55):
  “I just started sleeping a lot. I didn’t know that’s what depression was.”
• Therapy and intentional joy (12:07):
  “Joy is a verb. That’s what my therapist said… you gotta work on joy. You gotta make a decision to work on joy. And that’s what I’m doing now.”

Uplifting Others: Mentorship and Advocacy

• Supporting Gabrielle Union (13:32):
  Tisha paid for Gabrielle Union’s first therapy sessions, recognizing the need for support in the industry—even without knowledge of Union’s personal trauma.
• Being a beacon to Tasha Smith (15:21):
  Tasha credits Tisha for modeling that a career in acting was possible for her, after meeting as teens in Camden.

Reinventing Creativity: Pivot to Stand-Up Comedy

• Initial foray into comedy (16:58–18:47):
  Tisha recalls sitting in comedy clubs, absorbing how comics turned real life pain into humor and discovering the blurred line between drama and comedy.
• Launching stand-up at the Kennedy Center (2024, ~2 years ago) (19:21):
  “I can host. Yeah, I can bring them up. [D-Nice said] ‘Do 15 minutes before…’”
  With advice from Chris Spencer, Tisha performed in front of 4,000 people her very first show.
• What stand-up gives her (21:20):
  “It’s the scariest thing I’ve ever done in my life… You’re trying to get people to laugh at your pain. … It’s addictive. Now people get to know me for me, not a character of me.”

Motherhood and Navigating Autism

• Learning language and advocacy for her son on the spectrum (28:16–29:32):
  She explains up-to-date terminology (“levels,” not “high/low” or “Asperger’s”), sharing her son’s journey from being nonverbal to living independently and attending college.
• Early challenges (30:43):
  The lack of resources, waiting lists, and the pressure to get timely intervention:
  “Especially in 2001-2002, there weren’t a lot of resources. … Even if you did call a therapist, you were going to be on a waiting list just to get a call back.”
• The unique fears of raising a Black child with autism (34:42–36:55):
  “If you have a black child on the spectrum… sometimes they might have ticks and quirks… I was afraid [police] would mistake it for non-compliance… until we would practice with [my son] to keep his body straight just in case he was approached by an officer.”

Love, Relationships, and Self-Compassion

• Searching for love post-divorce (38:46–44:13):
  Tisha candidly discusses not knowing if she’s ever truly been loved or if people love her for who she really is, rather than her famous roles:
  “I just want to know who I am. … I want to have and work on all the baggage and unpack that before I’m super committed to someone, so they get the best part of me.”
• On fans and her character ‘Gina’ (44:15):
  “Every damn day of my life [people say ‘Damn, Gina’]. … My son calls me that every day.”

Starting Over, Identity, and Friendship

• Advice for starting over at 50 (Listener question) (46:05–49:37):
  Tisha describes visualizing a baby’s first steps—embracing the “fall” of starting fresh and changing the narrative from victim to survivor and creator of new stories.

• Money and value (50:41–52:12):
  “Money ain’t important to me. Money ain’t my God. … My relationships are more important. … I’m a true artist.”

• On friendship: Tichina Arnold (54:24–57:13):
  Tisha reflects on her lifelong, loyal friendship with fellow actress Tichina Arnold, describing how they keep each other grounded and accountable in Hollywood.
  “I don’t play about Tichina Arnold. … We help each other survive through it.”

• Self-Awareness and the ‘Loudness’ Mask (52:43–54:31):
  Tisha explains her loud, funny persona is both survival and strategy:
  “I’m actually quite shy, and I hide it with jokes and loudness… But now, I know that it’s a tool in my toolbox.”

Final Reflection: God’s Hypothetical Text

• “If God were to text you… what would it say?” (57:41–58:43):
  Tisha: “Stop being so loud. … I know what you’re doing, sis. …You’re hiding. … It’s survival technique.”

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On boundaries and respect for self:

  “If you don’t have boundaries and you don’t cherish yourself… you better cherish the fuck out of yourself.”
  —Angie Martinez (10:17)

• On living joyfully:

  “Joy is a verb. … You gotta work on joy. You gotta make a decision to work on joy.”
  —Tisha Campbell (12:07)

• On supporting Gabrielle Union:

  “I saw her potential… I wanted her to have support because this business can be so crazy.”
  —Tisha Campbell (13:39)

• On starting stand-up:

  “You’re trying to get people to laugh at your pain… but it’s addictive. … I get to not have a screen between me and people anymore. They get to know me for me.”
  —Tisha Campbell (21:20)

• On starting over after divorce:

  “Change the narrative, sis. Don’t be the victim. … It’s okay to start again.”
  —Advice from Tisha’s friend Danny (48:51)

• On what truly matters:

  “Money ain’t important to me. Money ain’t my God… My relationships are more important… I’m a true artist.”
  —Tisha Campbell (50:41)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening / Mask Metaphor – [00:32]
• AJ Johnson’s Mask Advice – [02:16]
• Realization & Depression – [05:58, 08:55]
• Boundaries Taught by Kids – [10:27]
• Supporting Other Artists (Union, Smith) – [13:32, 15:21]
• Stand-up Comedy Journey – [16:58–21:45]
• Motherhood & Autism – [28:16–36:55]
• Searching for Love, “Gina” legacy – [38:46–44:15]
• Listener Q – Starting Over at 50 – [46:05–49:37]
• Money Isn’t My God – [50:41]
• Friendship with Tichina Arnold – [54:24]
• God’s Text & Self-Awareness – [57:41]

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Tone & Host-Guest Dynamic

Warm, candid, and humorous—even in the most vulnerable moments. Angie creates a space for honesty and introspection, resulting in unusually raw, unguarded insights from Tisha. There’s mutual respect, frequent laughter, and a sisterly vibe.

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Summary for New Listeners

This episode offers a rare, intimate portrait of Tisha Campbell: her battles, breakthroughs, and ability to find humor even in hardship. Whether you’re a fan from her “Martin” heyday, a parent navigating special needs, a woman learning boundaries, or anyone pondering reinvention, there’s wisdom and comfort here—delivered with Tisha’s signature mix of honesty and humor.

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Recommended segments:

• Tisha on “the mask” and first taking it off (00:32–04:13)
• Her honest story of supporting Gabrielle Union (13:32)
• The launch into stand-up at 4,000-seat Kennedy Center (19:21–21:45)
• Fears and lived experiences as a mother to a Black son with autism (34:42–36:55)
• “God’s Text” and the meaning of being “loud” (57:35–58:43)

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“I just want to know who I am, completely. … I want to be the best me that I can be first.” – Tisha Campbell (43:46)

Transcript

[Tisha Campbell]

This is an I heart podcast. Guaranteed human. I'm still waiting for that to come. I have hope.

[Angie Martinez]

Yeah.

[Tisha Campbell]

That somebody will love me past Gina. So I'm open.

[Angie Martinez]

You feel like that got in the way? Gina got in the way.

[Tisha Campbell]

I don't think Gina itself got in the way.

[Angie Martinez]

Their perception of you, or I think.

[Tisha Campbell]

My perception of myself may have gotten in the way.

[Angie Martinez]

Thanks for watching, guys. Today's episode is brought to you by Boost mobile. For over 40 years, today's guest has been a true multi hyphenate in film television. From early roles in Little Shop of Horrors and Spike Lee's School Days to her iconic run as Gina on Martin, one of the highest rated sitcoms of the whole 1990s. Her career and her characters are still quoted, clipped and trending decades later, she now leads in this new movie, be Happy, a Mary J. Blige production on Lifetime. She's back to stand up comedy.

[Tisha Campbell]

Yes.

[Angie Martinez]

She's a legend and a boss. Welcome, Tisha Campbell, the irl.

[Tisha Campbell]

I'm excited to be here. Boo.

[Angie Martinez]

I just love you.

[Tisha Campbell]

I love you too.

[Angie Martinez]

I said this to you when you walked in. I was like, if you can't have a good time with Tisha Campbell, you are the problem.

[Tisha Campbell]

Something's wrong with you. You are the problem. Because every time I have ever been in your presence, we have good times.

[Angie Martinez]

And the energy, your energy is never. It's always good.

[Tisha Campbell]

Thank you. I tell my mama you said so. She did good.

[Angie Martinez]

Is your energy always good or it's just when I see you?

[Tisha Campbell]

Hell, no. No. I only show that part to the closest people to me. But for the most part, like a dark side, you know? Not really a dark side, but I wear a mask so much. I've been trained to wear a mask so much. And when I say mask, I'm talking about if you think of the drama and comedy mask. I'm always wearing the smile because, you know, when I leave my house, if I leave my gate, I'm at work. Like, people are gonna take pictures, wanna talk to me. So soon as I leave out my house, I'm at work. So I'm always here. And it's just really interesting that nowadays it's a little harder for me to wear the mask. It was a good friend named AJ Johnson who I did house party with.

[Angie Martinez]

Love, aj. Yes.

[Tisha Campbell]

Aj. So super brilliant. She was one of the people who told me to unmask, take my mask off because I was always like this. And I'm just learning.

[Angie Martinez]

AJ's like a life coach too, right?

[Tisha Campbell]

She Is she's an actress and a life coach. She actually went to school to Spellman. She, I think she made it. She wanted to be a medical doctor, but, you know, made that turn anyway. She was the one that took the mask off.

[Angie Martinez]

Is that the first person who ever said that to.

[Tisha Campbell]

The first person who ever said that to you? It was 2016, Easter. Were you arrested? No, no, no. I was begging her because she was life coaching a bunch of people that day. And it was an Easter party that I was having at my house. And. And I was like, I'm next. Cause she would play this game, salt or pepper, mom or dad, you know, and in between, she would read you for filth. Right? I was like, I'm next, I'm next. And she was like, ah. So then she told me the truth. She was like, take the mask off. And it was crazy because it literally, figuratively felt like everything just shattered onto the ground. And I saw all of these people that happened to be in my house that day. A lot of them I didn't even know. And I was like, you know, with the wizard of Oz, when they turn into color, when the black and white turns out, that's what it was like. I opened my eyes and I was like, oh, everybody's not nice. Because I'm a type of person that believes in a good man first, always have been. But what that does is it doesn't leave room for discernment. And so at that moment, I, I, my eyes open, I was awake and I couldn't put the mask back on. It was a little harder to do, even if I'm doing it for the betterment of everybody else.

[Angie Martinez]

To make what she said was take off the mask.

[Tisha Campbell]

That's what she said.

[Angie Martinez]

But what did that mean to you? Like, what did you hear when she said that?

[Tisha Campbell]

Wake up. You don't have to be on for everybody. You have to put yourself first. And that's something that I was not used to doing. I always put everybody else since I was a little kid. You had said earlier in the intro that I've been in this business for 40 years. I've actually been in this business for 50 years. I started when I was three. Wow, 50 something years. 54 years. And I started when I was three. And since I was three years old, well, since I was five years old, I've been paying bills, I've been taking care of my family. I knew that I had this gift that God had given me. I also was very aware and conscious as a child of how incredibly poor we really were. I mean, we was eating mayonnaise sandwiches for breakfast, lunch and dinner sometimes. Right. I grew up in Newark, New Jersey, in the projects.

[Angie Martinez]

Not the Newark now, like.

[Tisha Campbell]

Yeah, no, not because Newark is fly right now, but Newark back in the day. But I was really very conscious and I wanted to help my family. And so this became how I could help them best, along with, you know, singing and acting and whatever I was doing to help get us out of our circumstances. So it meant that I couldn't do. I couldn't wear this mask anymore. I had to be true to myself. If I'm sad, be sad. If I'm angry, be angry. I can still be kind. But I had to take it off.

[Angie Martinez]

And this was at a big age. Right?

[Tisha Campbell]

You said this is like 10 years ago. 2016 is when it happened.

[Angie Martinez]

Yeah, so 10 years ago.

[Tisha Campbell]

So I've been working on it. Well, at first I got depressed because I didn't know how I was going to take the mask off. How am I going to do that when so many people are counting on me to be this girl? And it's interesting because that's kind of what this movie is about. And I was mad because I was like, who is this Cameron J. Ross, writer, all up in my business? Who is this seeing me in real life? Right, right, right. And it really is about, you know, when you get to a certain age, a grown ass woman, you start to realize that what you may have missed because you sacrificed so much for others. And that's where I was and that's where this character is too. Nice transition, Tisha.

[Angie Martinez]

I know that sounds crazy.

[Tisha Campbell]

That's how I didn't know I did that, y'. All. But it really is true. And that's why I wanted to do this film because it was really touching something right here and here in my soul.

[Angie Martinez]

I love the trailer. I do want to talk about the film because I have a lot of questions about that. And also, Mary's my sister. I love the whole film.

[Tisha Campbell]

We love Mary J. Bosch. Yes.

[Angie Martinez]

And it looks so delicious and fun and I can't wait to see it. But I do want to stay in that moment for a second because she tells you, take off the mask and you look around and you see the cracks in everybody. Because before, what, you was looking at everybody with rose colored glasses.

[Tisha Campbell]

I was.

[Angie Martinez]

That must have been very tricky in relationships.

[Tisha Campbell]

I was depressing when I first realized what I had been kind of doing to myself.

[Angie Martinez]

But what does that mean, like in real life? Like, what does that look like? So you Have a friend or a partner.

[Tisha Campbell]

And so I'm everything to everybody, including especially victims. So I would take them on, I would help them. But I was really everything to every. I was the cook, I was the chauffeur, I was the butcher, the baker, the candlestick maker. I was everything to everyone. And I. I wasn't. My well was dry and I had nothing else to give. Even though I was running on empty, I was running on fumes. And you gotta combine that with the fact that I have a child on the spectrum. So I'm running around here, whether I'm at work, trying to be there for my coworkers, then I come home trying to be the best wife. And then there's. On top of that, I gotta take my kid to his different therapies. I have to negotiate with these people. Sometimes you don't get therapists right away. You have to, you know, deal with the meltdowns of autism. You have to deal with all of these things. And I was running around again being everything for everybody but me and this. Oof.

[Angie Martinez]

Girl. I feel you.

[Tisha Campbell]

So what it looked like after she told me to take the mask off and get back to that was depression, because I didn't think that I could do it. I didn't think I could put myself first. And so I just started sleeping a lot. I didn't know that's what depression was, but I just couldn't stay awake. Like 3 o' clock in the morning, 3 o' clock in the afternoon. It didn't matter. I was asked.

[Angie Martinez]

I hear that a lot when people talk about depression, that it shows up that way, just being in the bed.

[Tisha Campbell]

Yeah. Like anywhere at a restaurant.

[Angie Martinez]

And you couldn't even know. And you didn't know why.

[Tisha Campbell]

I didn't know why. And then things changed and I started to accept it that I couldn't operate like this no more.

[Angie Martinez]

So that is a major ass life shift.

[Tisha Campbell]

It is.

[Angie Martinez]

I hope somebody watching that feels that deeply because it's not a small thing you're talking about right here. It's like a major thing. And I think a lot of women.

[Tisha Campbell]

A lot of women will understand that in particular. Yeah. Always give to everybody but ourselves. Yeah, we're always.

[Angie Martinez]

And you know, there's something lovely about that. And I. And it's funny. It's beautiful. It is beautiful as long. But I. I think the piece that women miss is that you can be a giver. You could be empathetic. You could see people through roles. You could see the best in people even when they don't see it themselves. But if you don't have boundaries, girl.

[Tisha Campbell]

If you don't have boundaries.

[Angie Martinez]

If you don't have boundaries and you don't cherish yourself, like, if you're that good of a human, yeah, you better cherish the fuck out of yourself.

[Tisha Campbell]

That. Fuck that part. It was my kids that taught me boundaries. Believe it or not. I bet my kids taught me boundaries. My kids. Because, okay, I grew up a baby boomer, raised me, right? So, you know, when you're raised by baby boomers, blood is thicker than water. Family first, all of those things. Not the blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb. That's the real quote. But we were brought up, blood is thicker than water. And so my kids, both of them had a problem with a family member. And I was like, oh, you guys, you gotta fix it. They're family. You gotta fix it. And they're like, yeah, you throwing us into trauma. We don't want to do that. So here's what we gonna do. Like, they were like, mom, just kind of stay out of it. We'll fix it on our own time if we decide to fix it at all. And I realized I really am pushing them into trauma. That's not cool. And so I've learned to just step back and adjust for myself, even when my kids taught me that, because that's.

[Angie Martinez]

All I know, man. That's so good, Tisha. It's the fact that your kids. How old were they when they.

[Tisha Campbell]

I believe one was 20, so. And the other, he's 8 years old.

[Angie Martinez]

They were grown. They were grown.

[Tisha Campbell]

He's 8 years old. They were old enough to know that you got to stop.

[Angie Martinez]

Yeah.

[Tisha Campbell]

And they understood who I am as a person.

[Angie Martinez]

So you've had a pretty significant shift in your life in the past 10 years.

[Tisha Campbell]

I really have.

[Angie Martinez]

Good for you.

[Tisha Campbell]

It is the most amazing time. I really. You have to. Really? Joy is a verb. That's what my therapist said. And you gotta work on joy. You gotta make a decision to work on joy. And that's where I am in my life right now. You know, I'm working towards it every single day. And that's what makes me happy.

[Angie Martinez]

Yeah. I think sometimes we think if we don't put ourselves first, if we don't put other people first, like, we're not a good person.

[Tisha Campbell]

That part.

[Angie Martinez]

Like, you could do both, actually.

[Tisha Campbell]

You actually could.

[Angie Martinez]

You could be an amazing.

[Tisha Campbell]

It doesn't mean you're selfish. It means you're self full.

[Angie Martinez]

Yeah.

[Tisha Campbell]

And that's okay.

[Angie Martinez]

Yeah. It's actually smarter.

[Tisha Campbell]

It's smart.

[Angie Martinez]

It's a better way to live.

[Tisha Campbell]

Absolutely.

[Angie Martinez]

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[Tisha Campbell]

I did.

[Angie Martinez]

And I was like, well, why did she do that? And she said, I don't know. I think she just knew I needed it and I couldn't afford it.

[Tisha Campbell]

Well, let me just say this. It was. I saw the potential in gab. She was working her butt off, but I knew she was gonna be even bigger than what we were witnessing at that moment. And so I wanted her to have support because this business can be so crazy.

[Angie Martinez]

And so you didn't even know the history of what she had been through? No.

[Tisha Campbell]

She looked fine to me. It wasn't like I saw something wrong. It's just that I wanted her to be able to navigate this business. You're not gonna be unscathed, but at least you could have some type of support. And so I paid for like 10 sessions, 10 of her first sessions. I said, I really want you to see this therapist. And you mean a lot. You know, you're gonna be big.

[Angie Martinez]

And what did you see in her? Why did you know that?

[Tisha Campbell]

I could tell. First of all, if I'm walking down the street, I could tell an artist from a mile away.

[Angie Martinez]

Really?

[Tisha Campbell]

Yeah.

[Angie Martinez]

How?

[Tisha Campbell]

It's a feeling. It's a feeling. I can see an artist right away. And then I can also. You can see an it factor. Anybody can see an it factor. And she had it. She had that it factor, that X factor. And I knew she was going to be huge. I think it's God. God tells me who's going to be like that.

[Angie Martinez]

Yeah. And you wanted to help her?

[Tisha Campbell]

Yeah. And I, you know, I feel like I could see that I. I just think that she needed to be supported, and I like to support my sisters.

[Angie Martinez]

I know. And then we had Tasha Smith on.

[Tisha Campbell]

Really?

[Angie Martinez]

Tasha Smith said you were the one. One of the first people that made her believe that she could do this because you were one of the first examples. And I guess she met you in Camden, New Jersey.

[Tisha Campbell]

Yeah. When she was little. Club. Her and her sister were 15.

[Angie Martinez]

Yeah. And so she really credits you for making her feel like this career would be possible.

[Tisha Campbell]

Well, you know, a lot of times when I see people, I'll say things like, you know, you're not supposed to be here. Right. You know that you are going to be in a different place. You know, you're not supposed to stay where you are. You could feel it in your soul. I see it. So I need for you to see it, and I need for you to do something about it. I do that with a lot of people.

[Angie Martinez]

You do. You just see it and you offer it.

[Tisha Campbell]

I do. I do.

[Angie Martinez]

Who did that for you?

[Tisha Campbell]

I think it was, like, a family member or something, maybe. Cause I grew up. Okay. So my mom and her sisters were gospel singers called the Shockley Singers, and they used to sing background for Mahalia Jackson. Woo. Yeah. And then my dad was in a group, and that's how they met. So music and artistry has always been around me, and so I could tell who's who. But it's more of a spiritual thing. It's not an artist thing. Like, ooh, she could probably sing. Like, she looked like she got the breasts to, like, the big old breasts to, like, really blow. Like. No, it's not the chest. It's a spiritual thing. So I can kind of tell when I see them.

[Angie Martinez]

So when did comedy come into it? When did you think?

[Tisha Campbell]

So I couldn't get arrested doing comedy. I started out as a. I couldn't. I started out as a dramatic actress doing a lot of theater. And if you wanted somebody to cry on cue, Tisha was your girl. So I would always get hired for that kind of stuff. And as a matter of fact, you.

[Angie Martinez]

Were made to do this Lifetime movie that you're in, by the way.

[Tisha Campbell]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm gonna get to that, too. But when I was younger, I remember about 18 years old, I auditioned for a sitcom. And so the casting director goes, you need sitcom classes. And I was like, oh, okay. Where do you get those? She was like, there aren't any. So I was like. So I had to figure out what comedy was, so I would just go to the comedy Store by myself or the Comedy Act Theater, the Laugh Factory. And I would just sit in the back with the comedians to try to figure out what is comedy, because they were giving all the men these deals. In the 90s, everybody had a deal. Robert Townsend, Sinbad Martin, everybody, right? So I was like, I gotta jump on somebody's show. I gotta work. So I would sit in the back, and the. The ones that were really good were the ones who told their real life story. And I was like, oh, there's a thin line between drama and comedy. All I gotta do is support and ground it, and I can do it. So that's how I started out doing comedy.

[Angie Martinez]

Wow. And then did you get up there?

[Tisha Campbell]

Like, did you. No, I was too afraid to go up because back then, the. The climate of the standups. And I'm saying this from people that were, you know, in the 90s, they weren't collaborative or. It was very competitive.

[Angie Martinez]

It was brutal.

[Tisha Campbell]

It was brutal. It was brutal. They were brutal to one another. So I never did it, But I worked with so many standup comedians in scripted. In the scripted world, that they kept telling me, you gotta. You. You really are good at telling stories. Like, you gotta get up there. You gotta try it. You're really funny. You're really funny. But I would never. And it just so happened our friend. Our good. Our good friend D. Nice. Derek D. Nice, had a residency at the Kennedy Center. That's what I call it.

[Angie Martinez]

That was like a couple years ago.

[Tisha Campbell]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, like two years. Only two years ago.

[Angie Martinez]

Two years ago, Right.

[Tisha Campbell]

And he had a residency. I happened to be coming to support him. His host fell out, and he was like, tish, can you bring people up? And I'm telling you, he had the best of the creme de la creme. He had Sherri Shepherd, Michael Che, Chris Spencer Zaynab. He had great people. Oh, Gina Ryashare. Great comedians. Big comedians. And I was like, sure, I can host. Yeah, I can host. I can bring them up. He was like, yeah, do 15 minutes before. I was like, huh? Who you talking to? Right? So did he just assume that. No, you know what? It was Beck. You know Rebecca, of course, yes.

[Angie Martinez]

She works with Dee Nice.

[Tisha Campbell]

Yes.

[Angie Martinez]

We love Beck, by the way.

[Tisha Campbell]

We do love her. Beck. We love you, Beck.

[Angie Martinez]

Wait, so did they just assume that you had done stand up?

[Tisha Campbell]

No, no, they didn't. And they were like. She was like, oh, Chris Spencer will help you. And I was like, chris ain't gonna help shit. He got add, Right? So Chris ain't gonna do nothing.

[Angie Martinez]

Right.

[Tisha Campbell]

So I called Chris and Chris says, ah, just tell a story. I said, I knew your ass wasn't going, so. But I also had taken classes with Chris a long time ago. We took writing classes, me, him and Tichina. And so I know how he operates. Right. They were terrible in that class, too. I was the class victim. I was a victim. But no, he was the class clown.

[Angie Martinez]

Uh oh.

[Tisha Campbell]

So anyway, I know how he operates. So I said, I got 15 minutes before I go on to ask him questions. So I did that and he gave me, you know, really great advice and I went up there. By the time I got off, there was an agent in the. In the audience, and she started representing me. And that was it.

[Angie Martinez]

Wow.

[Tisha Campbell]

I started going on the road with finesse, Mitchell.

[Angie Martinez]

And you've been doing stand up comedy ever since.

[Tisha Campbell]

I've been doing stand up comedy ever since. And the first time, mind you, I ever went up there at the Kennedy center, it was 4,000 people.

[Angie Martinez]

How many?

[Tisha Campbell]

4,000.

[Angie Martinez]

Oh, my God. And did you tell jokes? Are you telling jokes? Yeah. But you're also Tisha Campbell.

[Tisha Campbell]

Well, that's different, though. This is a completely different genre. It's the scariest thing I've ever done in my life. Yeah, because you're telling your real life stories. You are trying to get people to laugh at your pain. And. But it's so. It's addictive. And I get to not have a screen between me and people anymore. They get to know me for me, not a character of me.

[Angie Martinez]

Did you think for a second to not do it out of fear?

[Tisha Campbell]

Yes. I think about that every single time I go up.

[Angie Martinez]

Yeah, yeah. Fear could stop you if you let it.

[Tisha Campbell]

If you let it. But I wasn't. Again, I'm at a certain age where I'm like, I'm a try and do everything I've ever wanted to do.

[Angie Martinez]

That's why I love this story. It's number one. It's like this just happened two years ago.

[Tisha Campbell]

Yeah, it was just.

[Angie Martinez]

You already have all your credits on your resume and you have. You have done what you have done. You have done enough. You're going to start something new that's terrifying and say, yes, I'm going to go do that.

[Tisha Campbell]

Lunel told me, why are you getting into this misogynistic business? I was like, there's something so beautiful about this genre, this art form, and I've always respected it. And I wanted the people that I worked with to know that I took it seriously and that I'm really doing the work. Yeah. So love that.

[Angie Martinez]

So how does it feel when you're up there? Like, when they laugh, when they hit, engaging.

[Tisha Campbell]

When it hits, it feels like I'm taking their pain away for just a half hour.

[Angie Martinez]

What about when a joke doesn't hit?

[Tisha Campbell]

When a joke doesn't hit, you just keep it moving. It actually motivates me to get up there even more.

[Angie Martinez]

To figure it out.

[Tisha Campbell]

Yeah.

[Angie Martinez]

To unlock.

[Tisha Campbell]

Yeah. It hurts, but it's like, oh, I gotta get back up.

[Angie Martinez]

That's how I feel about golf, Tisha.

[Tisha Campbell]

Really?

[Angie Martinez]

You golf like that?

[Tisha Campbell]

I golf.

[Angie Martinez]

I started golfing maybe three, four years ago.

[Tisha Campbell]

Yeah.

[Angie Martinez]

And I love it so much. I'm terrible. It's really hard.

[Tisha Campbell]

Yeah. Because you get better and you get worse.

[Angie Martinez]

You gotta do it in front of people. I go to these celebrity tournaments and I play in front of people, and I'm like, oh, God. But I don't care. I like it anyway, and I just do it.

[Tisha Campbell]

It's not feeling.

[Angie Martinez]

It's not the same thing, but. No, it is the idea of finding new things at whatever age you're at, whatever success level, whatever marital state.

[Tisha Campbell]

Stop.

[Angie Martinez]

Like, you always should be trying to find things that. I don't know, just new, fresh.

[Tisha Campbell]

That's right.

[Angie Martinez]

Fun.

[Tisha Campbell]

Keep you alive, keep exploring, finding the joy.

[Angie Martinez]

Yeah. I want to see you do stand up so bad now.

[Tisha Campbell]

Oh, I. I want you to come.

[Angie Martinez]

I totally want to come. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Tisha Campbell]

When I'm in your area, I'll hit you up.

[Angie Martinez]

So the movie that I saw, the trailer today, it looks so good.

[Tisha Campbell]

Thank you.

[Angie Martinez]

I mean, number one, because you just. When we see you on camera, it automatically is. Elevates the feeling. Like, it's just like, we know it's gonna.

[Tisha Campbell]

You're gonna get something out of it.

[Angie Martinez]

I know it's gonna feel good. It's gonna be funny. Like, I don't know, you just. Your presence just lends something elevated to anything.

[Tisha Campbell]

I think this was an interesting project to take on, and I'm really not sure. I think it was a combination of a couple of things, but it was Mary, of course. And then there was Gabby Sidibe, who directed the film. And I worked with her before doing a pilot of hers. And she saw my work where it was not just comedy. She knew that I could ground a scene and that I was still a drama, that I could do drama rather than. And so I knew that she was directing, and I wanted to do well for her. Because you're such a girl's girl. I think I am, but she's a really good person. But even on top of her being a great actress and a good person, she's a fucking excellent director. I will work with her again and again. She's very clear about what she wants. Her storytelling is good. She communicates very well. And I wanted to make her proud. I put. And she sent me a message. I literally cried because she was like, you put your whole heart into this. You put your whole heart into this. Everything that you may have been through. And I see it on screen, and I just appreciate it. She said, even Lifetime appreciates it. They really like the film. So I'm happy about that.

[Angie Martinez]

I'm so excited. I can't wait to. So I need to see you in the film.

[Tisha Campbell]

Yeah.

[Angie Martinez]

And I need to see some stand.

[Tisha Campbell]

Up, because I guess. Yes.

[Angie Martinez]

I mean, all those things.

[Tisha Campbell]

All the things.

[Angie Martinez]

What about, like, so you must have learned so much in the past couple of years of having this kind of transition.

[Tisha Campbell]

Yeah.

[Angie Martinez]

So people. We hear people say that even on this pod, for some reason, it comes up a lot like, I'm in my.

[Tisha Campbell]

I don't care season.

[Angie Martinez]

I'm in my. We all say that.

[Tisha Campbell]

Yeah.

[Angie Martinez]

But what is the actual, like, execution of that look like? Like, what are the things that you have to do to remind. Like, for me, I will tell you, I have to literally actually remind myself that what feels good for me is okay. I don't have to explain anything bad about it. I don't have to. And it's almost like you have to massage your muscle memory to get you thinking.

[Tisha Campbell]

To remember who you are, to get.

[Angie Martinez]

You thinking a certain way. It has to become a habit.

[Tisha Campbell]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Angie Martinez]

So, like, it's okay.

[Tisha Campbell]

For me, it's therapy. I have been super committed to unpacking baggage and understanding myself a little bit more where I am today, aligning that nervous system. And, like, I've been working so hard in therapy, and I can see the difference in myself surrounding myself. The other thing is I surround myself with a limited amount of people with whom I can trust. And then I'm a writer. I write.

[Angie Martinez]

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[Tisha Campbell]

Yes.

[Angie Martinez]

And you mentioned, you know, having a.

[Tisha Campbell]

Child on the Spectrum.

[Angie Martinez]

On the Spectrum.

[Tisha Campbell]

Yeah.

[Angie Martinez]

I know. You just, like, you always want to be very careful about the language. The language.

[Tisha Campbell]

Because it changes. It changes. Yeah.

[Angie Martinez]

Well, enlighten us. Like, what are the wrong words? What are the right words? What did you have to learn about that?

[Tisha Campbell]

They no longer use words like Asperger's.

[Angie Martinez]

Okay.

[Tisha Campbell]

Because that was a. Or when. When you look at the Spectrum, there's no more low on the Spectrum or higher up on the Spectrum. You're on the Spectrum. And then there are levels now. So there's level one, level two, and level three. Level one is where it doesn't affect them living independently. Level two is where they might need a little bit more support. Right. Level three is where they need a whole bunch of support to function.

[Angie Martinez]

And your child was on what level?

[Tisha Campbell]

I think he started out around. He was non verbal until he was like eight. So I would say level two and a half. And now level two, he's actually one and a half.

[Angie Martinez]

Okay.

[Tisha Campbell]

I think he's one and a half because he can. One of my goals was to get him as independent of me as possible. So this boy is in college. He keeps two jobs in his pocket because he don't ever want to ask me for cash or anything. He prides himself on being the man of the house, prides himself on protecting me. And he's just an amazing human being. So I would say one and a half. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. When I think about my kids, it just makes me smile so hard. They're incredible people. Like, even my youngest, my youngest. The teachers at the school always call me about him, and they're like, he is the kindest child I've ever taught. I get emails like that all the time. Like, I wish I had a dozen Ezekiels in my class.

[Angie Martinez]

So you did good.

[Tisha Campbell]

As a mom, I think we're doing good.

[Angie Martinez]

You did good. But I'M sure there were challenges in that. Yes, of course you love your kid and of course you did great.

[Tisha Campbell]

But, like, in the beginning, it was very challenging. Yeah, it was very challenging.

[Angie Martinez]

What do people not know about that, about being a mom and the challenges?

[Tisha Campbell]

I think what most people don't know is that when I got the diagnosis, I was on the set of my wife and kids.

[Angie Martinez]

Wow.

[Tisha Campbell]

And I pride myself on being the type of person who doesn't bring their problems to work. And plus, Damon created such a family oriented, loving atmosphere on that set, and I felt like I owed it to him to make sure that it stayed that way. So far be it for me to bring my ish.

[Angie Martinez]

Make it heavy to work.

[Tisha Campbell]

Yeah. So, yeah, I.

[Angie Martinez]

Does he know that you did that at that?

[Tisha Campbell]

No, I think this is my first time talking about it, actually. But I adore him and his family so, so much. He even put a nursery in my dressroom so that I could bring my baby to work. Like, he was always so supportive. When I first got the job on Wife and Kids, he was like, hey, I think we gonna be here for a good five years. You can get pregnant if you want to, because we're going to be here. And so he didn't have to tell me twice. I got pregnant with Zen right away, so. And had him the second season. Wow.

[Angie Martinez]

And so you would never bring anything to set?

[Tisha Campbell]

No, I still don't do that. It's how we were trained in this business. I grew up in the theater.

[Angie Martinez]

No wonder you would learn to wear a mask, baby.

[Tisha Campbell]

Yeah. Cause in the business, all you would hear was, one, you're only as good as your last job and you will be replaced by your understudy. Like, who cares?

[Angie Martinez]

Yeah.

[Tisha Campbell]

You know, so you come to work and you do your best and you consider the people around you. But I always tried to make sure I had a smile on my face because I really wanted to support the atmosphere that he.

[Angie Martinez]

So you're going to work on set and it's fun and jolly.

[Tisha Campbell]

You just.

[Angie Martinez]

Your child just gets diagnosed. And you're young.

[Tisha Campbell]

Right. You're 33.

[Angie Martinez]

30S.

[Tisha Campbell]

Yeah, 33.

[Angie Martinez]

You're on set. Young mother. And so then how do you manage that when you go home? I mean.

[Tisha Campbell]

Oh, I was constantly running, running, running. So. So Zen was on set. Sometimes therapists would come to my dressing room, or I was running around trying to find therapy because one of the major problems that most caretaker caretakers or parents run into is the fact that time is not on your side. You need to get that early Intervention in. But especially in 2001, 2002, when he got the diagnosis, there wasn't a lot of resources. There weren't a lot of people that I could go to. And even if you did call, like a behavioral therapist or speech therapist or an occupational therapist, you were gonna be on a waiting list just to get a call back to make an appointment. All of that said, like, I was literally running around, and I'm very aggressive when it comes to my kids. I'm very, very, very, very, very aggressive. There are people who are like, how you get an appointment so fast? Cause I. Even though I'm on this waiting list, I'm still gonna call you every single day.

[Angie Martinez]

They tired of you. Fuck you.

[Tisha Campbell]

And they got tired of my ass, and they gave me an appointment.

[Angie Martinez]

Oh, wow.

[Tisha Campbell]

That's how I had to operate. That's how I had to work.

[Angie Martinez]

Advocating for yourself.

[Tisha Campbell]

It's my child.

[Angie Martinez]

Yeah. Wow.

[Tisha Campbell]

Did I answer your question?

[Angie Martinez]

I think so.

[Tisha Campbell]

Okay.

[Angie Martinez]

I mean, I was just trying to understand the. Every day of that, like.

[Tisha Campbell]

Yeah.

[Angie Martinez]

As a woman. Young woman, and, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sherry was great. Sherry shared. We had Sherry on the show.

[Tisha Campbell]

Yeah.

[Angie Martinez]

I don't know how many months ago, but I understood a lot about, you know, some of her fears of raising a child and. A black child.

[Tisha Campbell]

Yeah, a black child also.

[Angie Martinez]

What.

[Tisha Campbell]

That.

[Angie Martinez]

How challenged. You know, she was afraid to let him out in the street. She struggled with his independence. You know, this is not a small thing. We're like, oh, yes, my child was on the. And I showed up and I worked, and I was. But, like, that's a heavy burden for a mother to carry.

[Tisha Campbell]

Absolutely. And. And, you know, I remember growing up in newark, right. In the 70s, 80s, and one of the things my mother was really, really fearful of when my brothers. Because I have three brothers by my mom and dad, when they would go out of the house and leave the house, she was deathly afraid of whatever the gang members that lived in that area of them getting, you know, attacked by that or police, you know, and just as black men. But I have a black child on a spectrum, and when you have a black child that's on the spectrum, sometimes they might have ticks and quirks or they can't keep their body still. And that was one of my biggest fears that, you know, law enforcement wouldn't. They're not. Back then. They weren't educated or trained in this type of diversity or what autism looks like. So his movements or the way that he might, you know, move his body, put his hands behind his back. When he's nervous, he puts his hands behind his back. I was afraid that they would mistake it for non compliance or there was a gun in his back, you know, and behind him or something. And so I have to think about that all the time until we would practice with sin to keep his body straight just in case he was approached by an officer. I know, right?

[Angie Martinez]

That breaks my heart for him.

[Tisha Campbell]

Yeah.

[Angie Martinez]

For any kid who. I mean, for, you know, the fact that kids have to do that.

[Tisha Campbell]

Absolutely.

[Angie Martinez]

Is heartbreaking.

[Tisha Campbell]

The fact that a mother has to train their kid.

[Angie Martinez]

Yeah.

[Tisha Campbell]

To, you know, make sure you get a receipt and a bag when you leave. I don't care if it's a piece of gum. Get a bag and a receipt before you. So when you walk out, nobody assumes you're stealing. Those are things that you have to teach your.

[Angie Martinez]

I never taught my son that.

[Tisha Campbell]

But see, that's the thing you gotta teach Latino and black kids have to know these kind of things because people automatically assume the worst of them.

[Angie Martinez]

Get a receipt in that bag. Do you have a good support system or did you then. Because now I feel like there are so many women.

[Tisha Campbell]

I had a very limited. There was AJ Tichina, my friend from high school. Sahira. Not a lot. The ones that I could really rely on. Rely on. And a girl named Danielle that I met in Los Angeles.

[Angie Martinez]

Wow, that's small.

[Tisha Campbell]

Very small. They were all moms. They kind of understood, but they gave me the support I needed to get me through this diagnosis. Yeah. There might have been one more, but. Oh, Holly Robinson Pete. Holly Robinson Pete really helped me through all of this. Yeah.

[Angie Martinez]

Cause she's navigated those waters through.

[Tisha Campbell]

She did. Yeah.

[Angie Martinez]

Yeah.

[Tisha Campbell]

And as me, she was an early advocate. She was. She was the earliest advocate that I knew, so she was the first person I called. And then there was also Lorna Kyle, who is Cedric the Entertainer's wife. So she. During that time, they were all very, very supportive and kind of helped me, Holly, the most because she understood it in a different way. But you mentioned Sherry, and. Sherry and I have become sisters in the autism community. And we've been sisters in, you know, just helping one another and supporting one another and pushing one another. And we always call each other the queens of pivot.

[Angie Martinez]

I love a good pivot.

[Tisha Campbell]

Yes, yes.

[Angie Martinez]

I love a good pivot.

[Tisha Campbell]

We do.

[Angie Martinez]

Where are you in love in your life now?

[Tisha Campbell]

What?

[Angie Martinez]

What'd you say, Tisha? That was a very direct question.

[Tisha Campbell]

I didn't hear you.

[Angie Martinez]

Where are you with love? Where do you stand with it. What does it mean to you? I'm not saying who's loving on you.

[Tisha Campbell]

No, no, no. What does it mean to me? I don't know. I'm still trying to figure out the love for myself. I'm still unpacking all of that. I don't. I know that I love people. I just don't know if I'm loved back by people. That's a really hard statement to say. Let me tell you this story. So I was doing this thing with Shirley Ralph. It was called Diva, Simply singing. Right. And on the show was Brenda Russell. Remember Brenda Russell?

[Angie Martinez]

Of course. Piano in the Dark.

[Tisha Campbell]

Piano in the Dark. She's a fantastic writer and she was a well known singer in the. In the 80s.

[Angie Martinez]

Yeah, 90s.

[Tisha Campbell]

Piano in the Dark was one of my favorite writers and singers. Right. But she was doing the show with me and she also wrote you can reach me by trailway. Right. Get there if you can. And I asked her, I said, that song, I said, God, it's so beautiful.

[Angie Martinez]

I don't care how you get there, just get there.

[Tisha Campbell]

Just get there if you can. I said, who are you talking about when you wrote that song? And she says, oh, yeah, that's where people get it. You know, misconstrued. Because I wasn't talking about a person. I was talking about love itself. I've never been loved in my life. And I did like this. And then the meaning, the words started going in my head. The meaning of the words took on a different. A whole different vernacular. A whole different meaning.

[Angie Martinez]

Yeah. Wow.

[Tisha Campbell]

And she was maybe 30 something, 40 years old at the most. And I was like, you've never been loved in your life. And then now I am here in this moment, kind of more understanding her words. I have loved and I put my whole heart into it. I not only believe in the good of man, I also believed in marriage, commitment, all of the things. And I'm still waiting to be loved properly, the way that I define love. Maybe that's not fair to somebody. Um, fuck that.

[Angie Martinez]

It shouldn't be fair to you.

[Tisha Campbell]

But I, again, I'm such a giver. I've given, giving, giving, giving, giving, giving, giving.

[Angie Martinez]

Yeah.

[Tisha Campbell]

And I'm still waiting for that to come. I have hope.

[Angie Martinez]

Yeah.

[Tisha Campbell]

That somebody will love me past Gina. So I'm open.

[Angie Martinez]

You feel like that got in the way? Gina got in the way.

[Tisha Campbell]

I don't think Gina itself got in the way.

[Angie Martinez]

Their perception of you or I think.

[Tisha Campbell]

My perception of myself may have gotten in the way. Maybe back then I was okay with crumbs. I was okay with. I don't know.

[Angie Martinez]

You were okay with you doing all.

[Tisha Campbell]

The things I was okay with. Loving on people.

[Angie Martinez]

Loving on people.

[Tisha Campbell]

Because I thought that was my job.

[Angie Martinez]

Yeah.

[Tisha Campbell]

That was what my job was. From him.

[Angie Martinez]

Yeah.

[Tisha Campbell]

How do you.

[Angie Martinez]

I feel that so deeply. I know.

[Tisha Campbell]

I've never had an interview like this, by the way.

[Angie Martinez]

Really? Oh, thank you for trusting me. And thank you for that.

[Tisha Campbell]

I do.

[Angie Martinez]

I appreciate that. Thank you, honey. I know we got real. It is real. Because people, you know, people are trying to figure it out. Everybody's walking around life fronting like they got it all together.

[Tisha Campbell]

Nobody got that shit together.

[Angie Martinez]

Nobody got it.

[Tisha Campbell]

And it's interesting because I'm so much more than the characters that people have seen me play. I'm much more than the smile that I wear on my face at all times. I'm so much more than that. Yes. Yes. And I'm learning. I'm peeling away the onion in therapy and in my friendships and in my now relationships, you know?

[Angie Martinez]

I love that.

[Tisha Campbell]

Yeah, but I don't mean I don't have no situationships. I'm just like.

[Angie Martinez]

Until you find that love.

[Tisha Campbell]

Hey, I ain't by myself now.

[Angie Martinez]

You're not opposed to a good time?

[Tisha Campbell]

Listen, I'm too grown for this. What we doing? What we doing?

[Angie Martinez]

Oh, my God, Tisha. I still want love for you, if that's what you want for yourself. Do you want that?

[Tisha Campbell]

I just want to know who I am. Completely. I want to be the best me that I could be first. I want to be able to have and work on all the baggage and unpack that before. I'm super committed to someone so they get the best part of me and I get the best part of me out of the relationship.

[Angie Martinez]

Heard you.

[Tisha Campbell]

Yeah.

[Angie Martinez]

So good. How many times do people say Damn, Gina to you?

[Tisha Campbell]

Every damn day of my life.

[Angie Martinez]

Cause like three times when you were talking today, I wanted to say, Damn, Gina. I really wanted to.

[Tisha Campbell]

I don't mind it, but it was so real.

[Angie Martinez]

I didn't want.

[Tisha Campbell]

You know what I mean? You know, I. Instinct. My son calls me that every day. I told you he does every day.

[Angie Martinez]

Oh, my God.

[Tisha Campbell]

He doesn't call me. He doesn't call me Mommy.

[Angie Martinez]

Shut up.

[Tisha Campbell]

I'm telling you, he don't call me mommy.

[Angie Martinez]

He calls you Gina.

[Tisha Campbell]

He only calls me Gina. You know why? Because that Dag on Nalayans Keenan's daughter was babysitting him when he was, like, three years old. Right? And I never let my kids watch my work Because I just wanted them to know me for mommy. I didn't let them watch my work. I didn't put them on red carpets. I wanted them to be as far away from Hollywood as possible. I did do a red carpet once. Cause it was a Disney thing, so I could take them to a Disney movie. But other than that, no, they weren't on the red carpet when they were little, on everything. And she was babysitting him one day. And I came home and they're streaming the Martin Show. And so Zeke turns, he's three. He goes, hey, Gina. And he been calling me Gina ever since. And I be answering. Cause I'm tired. I don't have the time. Okay, child. Oh, my God.

[Angie Martinez]

So they watched. They watched five.

[Tisha Campbell]

They watched the whole five seasons, I think. Oh, my God. And then Nala goes, you're welcome. And I'll kill you. Why you got this boy? So from then on, he's been calling me Gina.

[Angie Martinez]

Oh, my God, I love that.

[Tisha Campbell]

So I'm used to it.

[Angie Martinez]

All right, we have a couple. You're so good. I could talk to you all day. Okay, so our first. Our first segment is a voice note segment. Comes from one of our IRL listeners.

[Tisha Campbell]

Okay.

[Angie Martinez]

It's usually a question or a comment. This one is for you.

[Tisha Campbell]

So my question would be, how do I begin to start over when I've already gone through so much turmoil, so much trauma, and life as I know it is no longer the same? How do I maneuver through turning 50? Like, I feel like 50 is where I should have been at my peak and I was headed there before everything else. So just looking, where do I go from here? How do I start over at 50? Wow, that's a great question.

[Angie Martinez]

So it's feel like she was listening to our interview today, right?

[Tisha Campbell]

It's crazy.

[Angie Martinez]

So what was her name?

[Tisha Campbell]

Lady T. Lady T. Okay, Lady T. So when I had to start over, I really had to.

[Angie Martinez]

Start over from what?

[Tisha Campbell]

From like divorce. So I'm a backup. So I've been. Like I said, I was in this business since I was three years old. So I went straight from a momager and them being my manager into a marriage. And when I had to start over and when I left, I had to go from ground zero, complete zero, complete nothing. And it was scary. But I kept visualizing, you know what I kept visualizing?

[Angie Martinez]

What?

[Tisha Campbell]

You know how a baby, when they're first learning how to walk, they get up on their feet and they kind of teeter and they do this little wobble wobble. If you look at their faces. There's this excitement, this thrill. They know they're going to fall on their little pampered butts. They know they're about to fall, but they embrace the fall, and then they get right back up. I think sometimes when we're adults, we forget to enjoy and embrace the fall. That everything could look like. It feels devastating, but it's more like a. A beautiful devastation. And I just kept saying, things are going to get better. A friend of mine named Danny, who was one of the. One of the people who really helped me through, she told me she's my. Actually, she's my writing partner and co producer at my production company. But she kept saying, change the narrative, sis. Don't be the victim. Don't tell this story over and over again. Make new stories. It's okay to start again. It's scary, it hurts, it's complicated, but it's okay to start again. You got this. And so I had to stop singing the same song over and over.

[Angie Martinez]

What was the song you were singing?

[Tisha Campbell]

Just, you know, this happened to me. That happened to me. I don't think I'm gonna be able to do this, because now I have. It's just. It's the same thing that goes on in your head, you know? And I had to stop, embrace the fall, and change the narrative.

[Angie Martinez]

What is the narrative?

[Tisha Campbell]

Now do everything you want to do that you've ever wanted to do in your life. Put yourself first, Tisha. Put yourself first.

[Angie Martinez]

Angie.

[Tisha Campbell]

Angie. And everybody else will fall into place. If you're okay, then they'll be okay. But if you're not okay, how the hell you going to get to them? So that's where I am right now.

[Angie Martinez]

Mm. Damn, Gina.

[Tisha Campbell]

That was so apropos. That's great.

[Angie Martinez]

I felt that so deep. Okay. Hey, guys. Support for this podcast is brought to you by Walden University. Have you ever thought to yourself, what if I could go after what I actually want, and I could really make a difference? Well, you are not alone. And this is exactly why I want to tell you about Walden University. For over 50 years, Walden has helped working adults like you get the W with the knowledge, the skills, and everything you need to build the future that you want. And you can make a difference where it matters most. If you've been waiting for the right moment, this is it. Head to Waldenu. Edu and take that first step. Walden University set a course for change. Certified to operate by Shiv. Now welcome to our IRL bowl of real questions about real life. Okay, see what you get you can pick.

[Tisha Campbell]

All right. All right.

[Angie Martinez]

You can pick till you get one that speaks to you. You don't have to pick your first one because we have the magic of editing.

[Tisha Campbell]

I got my glasses on, so let's see.

[Angie Martinez]

Okay. I can help you if you need, because I had Lasik.

[Tisha Campbell]

How important is money to you? That's a good question. Money ain't important to me. Money ain't my God. And I think that's where a lot of people get hung up in this business. They make money their God. They make prestige something that they need. Fame, fame, prestige, control, money. Money was never my God. So when money was gone, I've been poor before. I can make it again. So it's never been something that was the end all, be all for me and never will be. My relationships are more important to me. The way I affect people is more important to me. Utilizing the gift that God gave me is more important to me. Making people forget their problems, making them cry, making them laugh, making them think, making them change the mindset is more important to me. That is what a true artist is. I'm a true artist. And this shit right here don't mean shit to me.

[Angie Martinez]

Heard you, sis. Mm. But it's not bad when you get it.

[Tisha Campbell]

Well, there are benefits to the shit. Like. But if you're still. You have integrity and you're a good person and you still can do what you do, it's gonna come.

[Angie Martinez]

Yeah.

[Tisha Campbell]

You gonna get blessed by it, and you're gonna be able to take care of your family. But it doesn't have to be your God.

[Angie Martinez]

Yeah.

[Tisha Campbell]

It never has to be your God.

[Angie Martinez]

You answered the shit out of that question.

[Tisha Campbell]

Damn. We wanna know.

[Angie Martinez]

Yeah, get another one. Get another one.

[Tisha Campbell]

We in it. That's it.

[Angie Martinez]

Let's do it. Let's do, like, baseball. Let's do three. Let's do.

[Tisha Campbell]

Okay, okay, okay. Let's do three questions before we wrap this one. All right. What's one thing you hope never changes about you? How loud I am. I know.

[Angie Martinez]

I like it too.

[Tisha Campbell]

I'm really loud, but it's actually part of the mass. I do enjoy it, but it has been a survival technique, actually. So I'm actually a very shy person, believe it or not. Nobody would believe that.

[Angie Martinez]

I would never believe it.

[Tisha Campbell]

Nobody would.

[Angie Martinez]

But I also would believe it.

[Tisha Campbell]

Yeah. I'm actually quite shy, and I hide it with jokes and loudness. And it has always been a strategic.

[Angie Martinez]

Move, and it work. And the problem is that it's effective.

[Tisha Campbell]

It's so effective. And you're so good at it. Yes. I'm so loud.

[Angie Martinez]

You demand attention, and then when you get the people's attention, you deliver. You're funny. You have some. You have meaningful things to offer and say.

[Tisha Campbell]

It's, it's. It's. It's the reason why I'm here. Like being able to do interviews like this, which is, like I said, I don't think that I've ever had an interview like this. This in depth, this just. What's the word? I'm trying to find the word.

[Angie Martinez]

Thank you. I feel you.

[Tisha Campbell]

You know what I'm saying?

[Angie Martinez]

I think it's just honest.

[Tisha Campbell]

Honest and inviting. And I don't feel like I have to put up a guard with you.

[Angie Martinez]

Thank you.

[Tisha Campbell]

You're very good at what you do.

[Angie Martinez]

Thank you, sis.

[Tisha Campbell]

So I'm able to say things that most people have never heard me say before. What was the fucking question? Oh, the loudness. The loudness. I love being that I was able to be strategic with how loud. I truly am not. Because I'm actually quite shy, like I said.

[Angie Martinez]

Yes, I could see that, though. But it has worked for you. But you're so self aware now that you know that it's a tool. It's a tool in your toolbox.

[Tisha Campbell]

Yeah. And plus, when I was 11 and 12, when I met Tichina. Well, I say 11 and 12. Tichina was 11, I was 12. She likes for people to tell. She likes for me to tell people that because she wants everybody to know she's younger than me. So when I first met her on an audition and she was like, blech, you're so shy. Why are you so shy? Speak up for yourself. I hate shy people. So she forced me out of my shyness.

[Angie Martinez]

What a blessing it was.

[Tisha Campbell]

And then she would take me all around all the gays in the 70s, and, honey, they would crack on you, honey, they would let your ass have it, so you had to get thick skin. So she was actually the blessing that helped me navigate the life.

[Angie Martinez]

How amazing it is to have a friend that long. You were. How old were you?

[Tisha Campbell]

11 and 12.

[Angie Martinez]

11 and 12, yeah. My best friend. We've been friends since we're eight years old, so I know the benefit of that. Somebody that has seen you through all.

[Tisha Campbell]

The seasons, knows you like we finish.

[Angie Martinez]

Each other's sentences, remembers things that you don't even remember.

[Tisha Campbell]

I do not play about Tichina Arnold. That's one thing I do not play about. I don't play about her. I do not play about Tichina Arnold. That's my girl. That's my friend. That's my sister.

[Angie Martinez]

Yeah.

[Tisha Campbell]

And as protective as I am of her, she's just as protective of me.

[Angie Martinez]

Oh, my God. What a blessing that the two of you had each other.

[Tisha Campbell]

Yeah. In this business because we were able to survive this business and not get caught up. We'll wait. We gonna wait for this bullshit, right?

[Angie Martinez]

I mean, they went crazy on you.

[Tisha Campbell]

They go crazy.

[Angie Martinez]

They want you to get louder.

[Tisha Campbell]

Oh, yeah, you wanna be loud? We gonna be loud talking. Okay. Sirens, they're gone. But I was saying that I do not play about.

[Angie Martinez]

Could you imagine, like, being famous, having that level of success, the success that Martin had, that show in the 90s and what fame does to young people and Hollywood, the fact that you were able to navigate those waters with my.

[Tisha Campbell]

Friends, with your friends, it was like a bubble around. Our friendship was a bubble. And we helped each other survive through it. We helped each other navigate around it.

[Angie Martinez]

We probably kept each other in check.

[Tisha Campbell]

Kept each we. The thing about the two of us is we tell each other the truth. We don't have the yes men around us. We don't want it. That doesn't keep you honest. And we hold each other accountable and keep each other honest, and we do it with so much laughter. She is how I get through life. She helps me laugh at everything.

[Angie Martinez]

What a blessing.

[Tisha Campbell]

Yeah. She'll be like, put a H on your shirt, bitch, and handle it. Like, put the H on your shirt, bitch, and handle it. Okay. That's Tichina Arnold.

[Angie Martinez]

I love that.

[Tisha Campbell]

Yeah, I love her.

[Angie Martinez]

My final IRL question, I like to ask everybody on the show. Do we have anything else before I do it? Final question, I like to ask everybody this question.

[Tisha Campbell]

Okay.

[Angie Martinez]

My final question.

[Tisha Campbell]

My final question. Yes.

[Angie Martinez]

You are so wonderful today, by the way.

[Tisha Campbell]

Thank you.

[Angie Martinez]

If this is a question in the bowl, if God were to text you today, right now. Yeah. What would it say?

[Tisha Campbell]

I don't know. I don't know what God would say to me. And y' all know what God was saying? Stop being so loud. That's what he said. Stop being so loud. I know your tricks. That's what he would say.

[Angie Martinez]

You know, if God texted you, stop being so loud, you would know exactly.

[Tisha Campbell]

Exactly what he.

[Angie Martinez]

What he means.

[Tisha Campbell]

He really means. I know what you're doing, sis. I know what you're doing, daughter. You're hiding. So stop being so loud. I'm never gonna stop being so loud. Lord, I'm sorry. I think it's. Lord, I'm sorry. I don't know if I could do it. It's very hard for me. It's survival technique.

[Angie Martinez]

Lord, he made you. He knows you.

[Tisha Campbell]

Okay, Tichina, a T shirt to say Tishina Arnold. Oh, the other one.

[Angie Martinez]

By the way.

[Tisha Campbell]

Tichina Arnold.

[Angie Martinez]

By the way. We need her next because I need the flip side of this. I need the flip side of this story of this duo. My goal one day would be to have the two of you in the chair together.

[Tisha Campbell]

You're going to very soon, and I can't say why. Project happening.

[Angie Martinez]

We'll get both. That would be amazing. I just want to make sure there was nothing else here. I think so. That was amazing. You are brilliant.

[Tisha Campbell]

No, you got to understand, Angie. It's you. You create a safe space for people to speak.

[Angie Martinez]

Thank you.

[Tisha Campbell]

Because we're always so guarded, but the way that you handle your guests.

[Angie Martinez]

Thank you.

[Tisha Campbell]

It's so. It's so comforting. So we don't mind saying things that nobody has ever heard.

[Angie Martinez]

Thank you for that, baby.

[Tisha Campbell]

Thank you, baby. Tisha Campbell in real life. In real life, too.

[Angie Martinez]

In real life. Yo, that was beautiful.

[Tisha Campbell]

This is Tisha Campbell in real life.

[Angie Martinez]

Hey, guys, thanks for watching. Make sure you subscribe. Like, comment and check out all of the other episodes we have on Andrea Martinez, IRL podcast.

[Tisha Campbell]

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