Joe and Jada: Pete Rock on CL Smooth split, Nas & 'Illmatic,' 50 Cent & G.O.A.T. Hip-Hop Producers
Episode released Jan 15, 2026 · iHeartPodcasts & The Volume

Episode Overview

In this nostalgia-rich, high-energy episode, Fat Joe and Jadakiss sit down with legendary producer and DJ Pete Rock. The conversation dives deep into hip-hop history, centering on Pete Rock’s relationship with CL Smooth, classic records, insights into working with Nas and on "Illmatic," stories from New York’s golden era, the state of hip-hop today, and a breakdown of the greatest producers and producer/MCs. The tone is candid and unfiltered—a treasure trove for anyone who cares about real hip-hop and its legacy.

Key Topics & Highlights

1. Pete Rock’s Influence and Relationship with Heavy D

[08:30 – 12:50]

• Joe asks Pete about the influence Heavy D had on him and if Pete Rock recognizes how much Joe tries to honor Heavy D’s legacy.
• Pete acknowledges Heavy D opened the door for a generation:

  “He opened the door for, like—the way he…man, yes. You know what I’m saying? Like, he opened the door.” — Pete Rock [10:00]

• Both share personal guilt about not expressing their gratitude more directly in the era of having to act tough.

2. The CL Smooth Split — Causes and Reflections

[13:50 – 19:20]

• Fat Joe probes Pete Rock about his longstanding split from CL Smooth and whether reconciliation is possible.
• Pete Rock bluntly attributes it to jealousy:

  “What would you say is his faults, though?”
  “Jealousy. It’s a bad disease, bro… I seen he has that in him. …That don’t work for grown people.” — Pete Rock [15:40]

• Pete wishes it had never come to the split but admits chemistry just couldn’t last.
• Discussion compares their rift to other groups’ conflicts and the pain it causes for both fans and artists.

3. Behind Classics: “They Reminisce Over You (T.R.O.Y.)”

[21:00 – 28:50]

• Fat Joe tells the story of how “T.R.O.Y.” is, for him, the greatest hip-hop beat.

  “That might be the greatest hip-hop beat of all time. …when I heard that beat, it was almost ancestral.” — Fat Joe [23:15]

• Jadakiss, deeply moved, describes how the track made Westchester, Mount Vernon, and Yonkers feel seen and gave local hope.
• Pete Rock details the session and its tribute to Trouble T. Roy.

4. Producing for Legends: Run DMC, “King of Rock,” and More

[28:55 – 35:25]

• Pete describes being summoned by Jam Master Jay to work on “King of Rock,” feeling immense pressure to impress Russell Simmons at just 18 or 19.
• The collaborative nature of the session (with JMJ shaping the beat, Pete handling the sounds).
• Anecdote about lack of credit for his contributions to major hits, similar to Fat Joe’s gripes with Scott Storch about "Candy Shop."

5. Creating “The World is Yours” with Nas

[36:10 – 40:30]

• Pete Rock breaks down the first encounter with Nas and how their creative synergy led to the iconic hook.

  “He came in and just stands against the wall. And then I pop that one in… He was like, ‘Hey, yo, yo, chill, chill. That’s the one.’” — Pete Rock [37:00]

• How Nas specifically directed Pete to sing the hook.

6. The Unfiltered Truth about the Music Business & Respect

[40:31 – 47:30]

• Fat Joe vents about artists who, after being helped, grow egos:

  “…you get artists who somehow you make them big. And they start thinking they bigger than you. And they start talking to you crazy.” — Fat Joe [42:00]

• The need for “logical uncles” in the industry to pull hotheads back from the brink.
• Reflection on how street loyalty and betrayal play into music business dynamics.

7. All-Star Collaborations: “Don’t Curse” and Working with the Best

[55:00 – 1:03:30]

• They reminisce about the making of “Don’t Curse,” which uniquely brought together MCs under one roof and had a no-profanity challenge.

• “I came up with every concept. …From hooks to bridges—that’s where I learned it from, how to build songs.” — Pete Rock [57:15]

• Jadakiss and Joe highlight the joyful energy and the fun of those sessions, calling them the “funnest time I ever had in hip-hop.”

8. Top Producer/MCs and Hip-Hop’s Greatest Beats

[1:08:00 – 1:13:00]

• Pete Rock’s top-5 DJ/Producers who rap:
  • J. Dilla
  • Diamond D
  • Eric Sermon
  • Dr. Dre
  • Himself (“I don’t like people putting themselves in the list, but you definitely in the list.” — Fat Joe [1:10:50])
• Love for Daz Dillinger, who was underrated as a producer/MC.

9. Dream Beats and Classic Rivalries

[1:21:00 – 1:28:40]

• Pete Rock talks about beats he wishes he made (“two Dr. Dre beats… at least two Primo beats… I wish I made the Chronic—Jesus Christ.”)

  “I can’t front, I got a little jealous of The Chronic.” — Pete Rock [1:22:10]

• Discussion of iconic battle records and their cultural impacts, including KRS-One, LL vs. Kool Moe Dee, and Ice-T’s legacy.

10. Hip-Hop’s Past, Present, and Future

[1:31:30 – 1:42:00]

• Pete Rock on bridging the generational gap:

  “Now we understand how important the youth is… We want to connect with them. Because I had a hard time listening to that music.” — Pete Rock [1:32:50]

• His “apology record” to the youth: “Yours” off De La Soul’s latest album.
• The group discusses the decline of artistry, artists preferring streaming over rapping, and Alchemist as the five-year MVP among producers (“Alchemist shines,” says Pete Rock).

11. Sampling, Production Philosophy & AI in Music

[1:45:00 – 1:54:30]

• Pete’s love for horns as a key sample component—crediting 45 King and Marley Marl as inspirations.
• Fat Joe laments the loss of analog “raw sound” and issues with today’s beatmakers glossing up raw tracks.
• Pete warns about AI:

  “This is why AI is bad for music, okay? They don’t have souls. They don’t have the ideas that come from here and land here.” — Pete Rock [1:49:15]

• Discussion how hip-hop’s genius is its ability to sample any art form, giving it roots in all music and cultures.

12. Closing Stories & Hip-Hop Memories

[1:55:00 – end]

• Favorite jams and records from the NYC park jam era—“Good Times,” “Apache,” “To Be Real,” etc.
• Loving shoutouts to Westchester, BX, and NY hip-hop culture.
• Celebration of how timeless tracks set the template for generations.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Jealousy Breaking Up Pete Rock & CL Smooth:

  “Jealousy. It’s a bad disease, bro… that don’t work for grown people.” — Pete Rock [15:40]

• On “T.R.O.Y.”

  “When I heard that beat, it was almost ancestral… just feel good about yourself.” — Fat Joe [23:15]

• On Nas Recording “The World Is Yours”:

  “He came in and just stands against the wall. …then he comes up with the hook, like, gave him a few minutes.” — Pete Rock [37:00]

• On Respect and Giving Back:

  “Any young kid, I don’t care if he’s worth 200 million, 20 million, that’s hot, he needs an unk. They could tell him, ‘Yo, chill’ before they touch the frying pan.” — Fat Joe [43:10]

• On Sampling and the Soul of Hip-Hop:

  “Hip-hop comes from sampling all other art forms of music… We sample everybody else’s music and make sure… We come from all kinds of music.” — Fat Joe [1:50:00]

• On AI in Music:

  “AI is bad for music…They don’t have souls. …It has to come from within for it to be dope. AI can never reach.” — Pete Rock [1:49:15]

• On The Golden Era & KRS-One:

  “KRS-One was my hero… He’s the first gangster rapper, actually.” — Fat Joe [1:27:50]

• On the Current State of Hip-Hop:

  “Artists don’t even want to rap no more. Now these young boys want to stream. Only the pioneers could save us.” — Pete Rock [1:39:45]

Segment Timestamps

• Heavy D’s Influence: 08:30–12:50
• CL Smooth Breakup: 13:50–19:20
• T.R.O.Y. Deep Dive: 21:00–28:50
• King of Rock & Jam Master Jay Stories: 28:55–35:25
• "The World Is Yours" & Nas: 36:10–40:30
• Respect in the Business: 40:31–47:30
• "Don’t Curse" Session: 55:00–1:03:30
• Producer/MC G.O.A.T. Lists: 1:08:00–1:13:00
• Wished-for Beats & Beat Battles: 1:21:00–1:28:40
• Bridging Old & New Hip-Hop: 1:31:30–1:42:00
• Sampling Philosophy & AI: 1:45:00–1:54:30
• Park Jam Memories/Favorite Records: 1:55:00–End

Final Thoughts

This episode is a celebration of hip-hop’s soul, its unsung legends, and the ongoing responsibility vets feel for the new generation. Pete Rock, Fat Joe, and Jadakiss open up with humor and sharp opinions while always uplifting the art form and paying homage to those who paved the way.

For hip-hop heads, producers, and anyone curious about the behind-the-scenes magic, this one’s a must-listen—authentic, raw, and absolutely classic.