480 Joe Rogan Experience Review of Derrick More Plates

Summary

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Joe Rogan Experience Review Podcast

Episode 480: Review of Derrick (More Plates More Dates)
Date: December 13, 2025
Hosts: Adam Thorne and Nick (from Lesser Known Operators)
Guest/Focus: Derek – More Plates More Dates & Frequent Joe Rogan Guest

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Episode Overview

This episode of the Joe Rogan Experience Review Podcast centers on a detailed discussion and analysis of Joe Rogan’s recent JRE episode featuring Derek from More Plates More Dates. Adam and Nick break down Derek's influence in the bodybuilding and supplement world, his honesty about performance-enhancing drugs, and the broader implications for fitness culture, supplements, regulation, and mental health. As always, the hosts focus on the most compelling moments from Rogan’s show, add personal insights, and debate the ethics, reality, and science behind fitness trends.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Derek’s Role in the Fitness World

• Derek as a Staple Guest:

  • Derek has made multiple appearances on the JRE due to his deep knowledge and honest approach to supplements and performance enhancers.
  • “He has such a good channel. He's been around for a long time on YouTube. …he tackles things head-on.” (A, 02:46)

• Investigative Work — The Liver King Exposé:

  • Derek played a significant role in exposing Liver King’s steroid use, bringing receipts and making the PED discussion mainstream.
  • “Derek did a bit of investigative journalism… He's clearly dosing massive amounts of stuff too. I think it was like $11,000 a month or something he was pumping into himself, which is terrifying…” (A, 07:14)

2. The Illusion and Reality of Fitness Influencers

• Believability of Fitness Claims:

  • Many people want to believe you can get jacked through natural means or supplements alone, but the reality is more complicated.
  • “There are natural ways to be big and strong, but they take a long, long time to do. And you won't look like Liver King.” (B, 04:53)

• The Dangers of Unrealistic Goals:

  • The hosts emphasize the importance of setting realistic fitness goals rather than chasing influencer physiques.
  • “We have this unhealthy view of what we should look like instead of what we should be fit and healthy for. What. What is the goal for everybody?” (B, 09:24)

3. PEDs, Supplements & the Culture of Disclosure

• The Problem of Lying to Consumers:

  • The big issue is deception, especially when influencers sell supplements with false claims.
  • “The problem is when you're lying to people about your supplements...that does have a legitimate business and that does do things the right way, and they're going to come after you. The Internet is undefeated.” (B, 08:12)

• Honest Disclosure and Transparency:

  • Both Derek and the hosts stress the value of full transparency about what goes into being big and strong.
  • “It's addiction that can get a hold of me. I'll tell you exactly what I take. I'll even tell you my workouts. ...I'm not a secret about what I do and how I get like I am.” (B, 11:21)

4. Rogan’s Privilege & Perspective

• Wealth & Disconnect:
  • Discussion on how Rogan’s lifestyle creates a disconnect with average listeners.
  • “Joe has had everything he's ever wanted for several years now...So you lose that feeling of normal everyday life. Like 99% of the population of America have. Like real life sucks.” (B, 13:44)
  • “...it's like two rich guys talking to each other. And I start to just check out because...I can't even buy a house. This is annoying.” (A, 16:24)

5. Supplement Marketing – Energy Drinks & Efficacy

• Skepticism Toward New Products:

  • Conversation about Gorilla Mind energy drink and the never-ending cycle of fitness product marketing.
  • “I've tried all the drinks...they're not changing your life. Like, I'm just not getting that excited about energy drinks.” (A, 16:51)

• Derek’s Trustworthiness:

  • Despite skepticism, Derek’s demeanor and knowledge instill confidence.
  • “The way he talks and is just so matter of fact about the supplements and what they do, I believe the guy.” (B, 19:34)
  • “He's surprisingly smart when it comes to this...he seems very genuine.” (A, 20:33)

6. Science, Regulation, and the Changing Landscape

• Peptides, Regulation, and the FDA:

  • Discussion about the regulatory gray area for peptides and why the FDA is cracking down.
  • “There are two kinds—through a doctor and prescription or non-pharmaceutically titrated peptides for ‘research purposes only’...the FDA is going to start cracking down on them.” (B, 26:27)

• Quality Control vs. Freedom:

  • Weighing individual freedom to access substances against the public need for safety and regulation.
  • “Personally, I think people should be able to go to a vending machine and buy whatever the they want. ...Would society collapse? Maybe.” (B, 31:26)
  • “...as much as I hate to say it, the government can prevent some bad things from happening.” (B, 32:04)

7. Plant Medicine, Trauma & Mental Health

• Plant Medicine’s Promise & Limitations:

  • Insight on ibogaine and other psychedelic treatments for veterans and trauma—but with emphasis on careful medical oversight.
  • “Ibogaine's the most dangerous of all of them. That's why...you need to have a cardiologist there so people don't go into cardiac arrest…” (B, 34:03)
  • “...these things are not a fix-all. You still have to do all the work after you take it.” (B, 38:24)

• Trauma Before Service:

  • Military/veteran mental health issues often have roots in childhood; plant medicine is seen as a possible way forward—but it’s not an instant cure.

8. DIY Drug Use vs. Medical Supervision

• Risks of Self-Experimentation:

  • The dangers of unregulated, self-prescribed use of PEDs and supplements are highlighted.
  • “You can kill yourself ... dosage makes the poison.” (B, 41:52)
  • “If you jump on performance enhancing drugs, your joints will not keep up with your muscles, so your chance of injury goes up like 400%.” (B, 43:42)

• Value of Medical Supervision:

  • The hosts advocate for doctor involvement, especially as telemedicine makes it easier to safely access testosterone and peptides.
  • “My sponsor for my show is a Green Beret that is now a medical doctor in North Carolina...He gives me my TRT and my peptides.” (B, 54:14)

9. Motivation, Change, and Example Setting

• Change Comes from Within:
  • Personal growth and overcoming addiction are discussed as deeply internal processes.
  • “...people don't change unless they have to or want to. ...All I can do is try and be a better example. ...People don't read and they don't listen, but they will watch what you do, and they hopefully will be inspired…” (B, 55:23)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Illusions of Natural Physiques:

  • “You want to believe that? I do believe.” (B, 03:54)
  • “There are natural ways to be big and strong, but they take a long, long time to do. And you won't look like Liver King.” (B, 04:58)

• On PEDs and Honesty:

  • “The problem is when you're lying to people about your supplements being able to do what he was saying they do, and that's where you're gonna...upset everybody. ...The Internet is undefeated.” (B, 08:12)

• On Rogan’s Wealth:

  • “Joe has had everything he's ever wanted for several years now...So you lose that feeling of normal everyday life.” (B, 13:44)

• On Safety and Regulation:

  • “You should be able to go to a vending machine and get whatever you want. This is America. ...Now if that were to let that happen, would society collapse? Maybe.” (B, 31:22)

• On Ibogaine and Safety:

  • “Ibogaine's the most dangerous...you need to have a cardiologist there so people don't go into cardiac arrest…” (B, 34:03)

• On Addiction and Self-Development:

  • “...when I was drinking, the only thing that made me better was quitting drinking. And then I can move on to the next problem and start making the rest of my life healthier.” (B, 55:23)

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Timestamp Highlights

• [02:44] Introduction & significance of Derek/More Plates More Dates
• [07:14] Liver King exposé and the consequences of PED use
• [13:44] Rogan’s privilege and connection to everyday problems
• [16:51] Skepticism about the latest fitness products and energy drinks
• [26:27] The FDA, peptide regulation, and the supplement landscape
• [34:03] Dangers and reality-check on ibogaine use for PTSD
• [38:24] Perspective on trauma, plant medicine, and recovery
• [41:52] The perils of self-dosing and the importance of medical guidance
• [54:14] The value of seeing a doctor for TRT and peptides
• [55:23] Motivation, example-setting, and overcoming addiction

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Final Thoughts & Ratings

• The hosts reaffirm the importance of honest, informed guidance when it comes to health, fitness, and supplements.
• Derek is praised for his transparency, education, and no-nonsense approach both for himself and the audience.
• Both Nick and Adam rate the episode highly for its practical discussion and relatability.
  • “I would give this...I like Derek. I like him a lot. I give it a 8 out of 10 for sure.” (A, 57:28)
  • “Anything...to get more information to the health, health and wellness of people is in the 80s at least.” (B, 57:40)

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Thematically, this episode offers:

• A reality check against fitness hype and supplement marketing.
• Practical advice for listeners who want to improve health, with an emphasis on honesty, seeking medical guidance, and setting sustainable goals.
• Critical discussion on the balance between freedom and regulation in an ever-evolving supplement and wellness landscape.

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For JRE fans and fitness truth-seekers, this review episode is packed with insight, cautionary tales, and a grounded perspective on a rapidly changing world.

Transcript

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[B]

Think of us as the talking dead to Joe's Walking Dead.

[A]

You're listening to the Joe Rogan Experience Review.

[B]

What a bizarre sing with crib.

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Now with your hosts, Adam Thorne might.

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Either be the worst podcast or the best one.

[A]

One go.

[B]

Enjoy the show.

[A]

Hey guys and welcome to another episode of the Joe Rogan Experience Review. What's happening this week? Joined by Nick from Lesser Known Operators. He's been on the show half a dozen dozen times. How many times you been on, bud?

[B]

I think I'm a semi regular guest at this point. Enough for that to be my moniker.

[A]

Mm, I like it. And we have Derek from More Plates, More Dates this time around. And what's it like his fifth appearance on Rogan, I think. I mean he is a staple.

[B]

He's got more than both of us combined, that's for sure.

[A]

Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, I, He. He has such a good channel. He's been around for a long time on YouTube. He's been really. I mean, he's just a brave guy. Like, he takes it, he tackles things head on. He took on the Jon Jones thing, the PDs, and all of those testings. I mean, what did he expose Liver King to? I mean.

[B]

I mean, Liver King did a great job of exposing himself.

[A]

Yeah, it was pretty obvious, but you.

[B]

Just had to look at the guy to go, I think this guy's lying or full of shit, you know?

[A]

But so many people believe that and they need somebody.

[B]

I feel bad for those people. I really feel bad.

[A]

Yeah, you need.

[B]

But, you know, they dig their heels in.

[A]

Dude, I'm not going to lie. Like, this is how much of a dummy I am. I want to believe sometimes that there's like some, you know, liver testicle supplement that I can take that's healthy. And then all of a sudden I'm that jacked.

[B]

You want to believe that? I do believe.

[A]

I want to believe it. I know it's not possible, but, you know, there was a part of me that's like, maybe he is. I just don't know enough about that kind of thing. Like, you know, I assume people were super jacked before there were steroids. There must have been a way.

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah, the getting some sleep, eating enough protein, working out, training, not having all these existential noise to keep you from what you're trying to do. We're so distracted now. People were more focused on what they were doing and, you know, it was all about surviving a long time ago, and it's not about that anymore. So we've drifted away from the necessity to focus on ourselves, focus on everything else now.

[A]

So, yeah, cell phones.

[B]

That's it, man.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

All of our business is on our phone and everything. It's not good for you, but that's the way things are right now. There is a. There are natural ways to be big and strong, but they take a long, long time to do.

[A]

And you won't look like Liver King.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like, there's no way you can do that naturally.

[B]

That's. That's not healthy. That's not. That's. I mean, I'm right at the top end of healthy for size. I'm. I'm 5, 11 and 240 pounds. 9% body fat. And that's borderline unhealthy. I'm carrying around too much muscle. If you carry around too much muscle, your heart's working Harder than it should to get oxygen to your muscles. And it's a strain on your or on your organs to keep you alive. Or it can be over time. So there is a point where it all becomes unhealthy. That's why bodybuilders have a shorter lifespan. There is a way to do things on the right, on the correct way. But you know, that costs a lot of money as well.

[A]

Yeah, but you look at like Dorian Yates and Ronnie Coleman. I mean, they, like, Dorian changed this whole thing up. So he's the British guy that was Miss olympia in the 90s, like legend. But now he's like, just runs a lot.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Doesn't lifts. He had to change things big time. And Ronnie can barely move, who was just a specimen. I mean, that was beyond massive.

[B]

The King. But then you look at Jay Cutler, who is still mobile. Yeah, good point. He looks great, he sounds great. He. But he learned as the technology evolved and we got more information and the right way to do things. But the way Ronnie was king was he lifted those heavy weights. He lifted weights heavier than everybody else. He worked harder, he ate the insane meals and that's what worked for him. So hopefully, hopefully, as we move forward, the professionals at every level will be learning from the prior generations. Professionals and build on that.

[A]

Yeah. And then let's not forget, he also juiced himself with everything that you could possibly put into your system.

[B]

I'm sure if you got the money, take it all.

[A]

Yeah, they did. So let's talk about Liver King for a second. Even though it didn't come up a ton on this episode, but since Derek called him out, you know, Liver King's been through a whole thing and since it really connects with Rogan anyway, and the chaos with him going down to Austin and getting arrested and that nonsense, you know, he got called out by Derek and others. Derek did a bit of an investigative journalism and was like, he's doing this. Here are the emails. He's clearly dosing massive amounts of stuff too. I think it was like $11,000 a month or something he was pumping into himself, which is terrifying to think of.

[B]

I mean, that's so $10,000 a week cocaine habit. So who is this? Eric Clapton was spending $10,000 a week on cocaine. So, I mean.

[A]

Good point.

[B]

Drugs can add up.

[A]

It's a good point. They're expensive. So he's doing that and then he gets hit and then he's like, okay, now I'm going natty. Which he, like, tried to persuade us that he was doing yet he didn't. His body didn't change at all.

[B]

It's. It is tough to shed muscle. There's ways to keep it, but if you get addicted to how you look and how strong you are, and it's very easy to just continue on the path. The problem that everybody had with Liver King, it's, who gives a. If you're taking. If you're not competing, right. If you're not in professional sports and you're not trying to be a champion at whatever your arena is. The problem is when you're lying to people about your supplements being able to do what he was saying they do, and that's where you're gonna. You're gonna upset everybody. That's that. That does have a legitimate business and that does do things the right way, and they're going to come after you. The Internet is undefeated. They will never. The Internet has never lost a match in its entire career.

[A]

Yeah, but he's also worth hundreds of millions of dollars, so. And he's still selling a lot of his supplements, believe it or not. I mean, people are still somehow falling for it. I don't know if that's, like, good marketing or, you know, I'm not saying that, like, supplementing with some liver is bad. Like, it probably has value, but it's not going to make you jacked.

[B]

No. Getting the correct amount of sleep, hydration, electrolytes, grams of protein, staying active, taking some creatine. Those are all the things that are your best first step to getting there. Then work out after that. Get a correct workout plan where you're focusing on getting stronger. And then. But what is it all for, right? The normal person, that they're not working out for that. Do they want to look good in the mirror? Do they want to look good with no shirt on? Do they want. They want to be able to pick up their kids. We have this unhealthy view of what we should look like instead of what we should be fit and healthy for. What. What is. What is the goal for everybody?

[A]

Right?

[B]

We look at that and go, oh, I want. You know, I want to be strong like that. Well, for what reason? And we get caught up in the things that we want more than the things we need.

[A]

Yeah, for sure. I mean, look, if your whole image is selling those supplements and you're making hundreds of millions of dollars, I'm sure it's easy to get pulled into that trap. I mean, you know, take what you're doing with your social media and your message, and there's a part of that message, that's. You know, people see you, you're a strong guy. They know that you were trained with the skills of special forces stuff. You represent, like, that masculine thing. It's like, is there an energy to be like. Does it also inspire you to be like, yeah, I need to keep working out. I need to be strong and show people that I'm strong. You add one extra piece to that that's like, oh, if I get extra jacked, I get 10 times the followers, you know? Now, I know that's not you. I know you, Nick. You're not, like, fake like that. But you can imagine that that would cross people's minds.

[B]

Absolutely. I. It's addiction that can get a hold of me. I'll tell you exactly what I take. I'll tell you. I'll even tell you my workouts. I'll tell you what I do, what I've done in the past as well. I don't put it out as, like, a public forum information, but I'm not a secret about what I do and how I work out and how I get like I am. But there's people way stronger than me, and they're funnier, and they make better content and things like that. And, oh, yeah, I mean, we. They brought it up in the episode, right, Joe. Joe said, you know, you're trying to impress these people you don't even know. You know, for likes. Oh, it only got 5000 likes. What the. Okay, Yeah, I can see people falling into that trap as well, because. And here's one thing that I thought while he was saying that.

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[B]

I've been listening to his show that no matter how long you do something, you will forget you. You are bound to forget how things were. Joe has had everything he's ever wanted for several years now, if not a couple of decades. Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So you lose, you lose that feeling of normal everyday life. Like 99 of the population of America have. Like real life sucks. Like, it is hard. You're depressed, you're worried about money, you're living paycheck to paycheck and then you can go on your phone and just get a little happy and see some other stuff and distract you from what you've got going on, you know, and for him to say like, oh, we get sucked into this and it's not healthy. It's not this, but a lot of our lives are into our phones. They're. They're in there and it's, we're sucked into them. And because real life sucks and everybody wants a distraction and I don't know, I feel like I've noticed a few times where he said things where it's like, yeah, but because Joe, you know why you think that? Because you have everything you want. You've, you've had it for a long time now. And it's, I don't know, just a little thing that I noted but noticed when he said that.

[A]

Are you sure? Sure. I mean, listen, he's, he has had escape velocity opportunities, money and experience for a long time. I feel like he has been one of the few people that have had those opportunities that have stayed pretty grounded, relatively speaking. You know, but it still must be difficult. You know. When was the last time he flew commercial? Decade ago. I mean, you start Doing that long enough. It's really hard to remember what it's like to, you know, remember what it's like to, well, just not want to go out to eat twice a week because a steak is expensive. Like, he hasn't been in that world.

[B]

Since the 90s, but he does know that he came from that. It's just, it helps if enough, if enough time passes, you're going to really forget. If you've spent enough time in the now, you're going to forget how things. You're going to at least lose track of that memory. You know, the real severe things that happen to you. People remember those acute moments, but you know the feeling of the drudgery of life, of, of things and like that. But he is smart enough to recognize that. It's just something I noticed because if you're, if you're in it and then you get away from it, you're going to forget some of it.

[A]

But he, you know, he also needs that reality check. Like everybody, I think, and, and I think he reflects. But you do catch it sometimes on the pod where, you know, it's like two rich guys talking to each other. And I start to just check out because I'm like, I. I can't even buy a house. This is annoying. This is too much.

[B]

Most Americans can't buy a house.

[A]

What did you think about the push for that new. What was his drink called? Gorilla Mind Energy Drink. I mean, it was a commercial for like 20 minutes on this podcast. And it. Look, I'm all for, I'm all for promoting people's stuff, but, you know, I've tried all the drinks they like, yeah, they wake you up for a bit. They're not changing your life. Like, I'm just not getting that excited about energy drinks.

[B]

Unless you are chugging on all cylinders. There are very few things in life that you can add that you're going to notice the difference. You can add creatine and you will notice a difference. You can get rid of coffee in your day and you will notice a difference because you're dependent on it. If you hydrate well or, or don't hydrate, you're going to notice that if you sleep really well and don't sleep, you're going to notice those things. But if you're not dialed in on everything where you have a good baseline of where you're at, you're not going to notice a lot of these things. Like those drinks. He started going off on ingredients and what they do for 10 minutes, and I went, I Don't even know what the this guy's talking about at this point. Yeah, he's like, oh, it crosses the blood vein brain barrier. And I'm like, I haven't even figured out the four things ago that he said. Trying to get that.

[A]

And listen, I'm not saying I don't believe that he doesn't know what he's talking about, but also I'm like, okay, sure, great. I also know you're selling this. And I. Yeah, what was it called? Red Gummy Fish. It just sounded like a kind of gross taste.

[B]

Gorilla Mind, I thought. I thought it was Gorilla Mind. And that was the flavor was.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. The flavor was that. But Red Gummy Fish flavor doesn't speak to me much. Sounds too sweet. And maybe it's a bias. Maybe I should try it before I talk shit about it.

[B]

Just side sidebar. You sounded. You sounded a thousand years old there. When you're like, that doesn't sound good to me. Red Gummy Fish. That means you're old.

[A]

And you know, I don't eat candy anymore.

[B]

Yeah, no, that's too sweet for me. That'll. I, I'll have to take my diabetes medicine before I get to bed if.

[A]

I. Yeah, maybe that is that. But no, I don't know. I wasn't sold on it. And I like the guy, so I was just like, okay, it's got a lot of caffeine. What else did he say? Like, L. Tyrosine. I don't know what that is. Some GPC stuff. And then I. Did it even have any creatine? Was it a creatine drink or no.

[B]

I don't think so because he said he was drinking a bunch of them and they went on about how many milligrams of caffeine to put in something because 200 milligrams is this happy middle ground. And you don't want to get people shaking and you don't. And you want to have enough to where people feel it. The way he talks and is just so matter of fact about the supplements and what they do, I believe the guy. Whatever he says. He starts talking about him and goes, this is good because it does this. And this is good with this because it does this.

[A]

Yeah, I'm sold.

[B]

I feel like I can trust this dude in what he says. And every time he comes on, it doesn't change. None of his mannerisms don't change. The way he speaks, the cadence doesn't change. And he's just very matter of fact and just goes through it and that's why I think people like him is because he just lays it out there of what the knowledge that he's learned. And he's obviously very well read and very highly educated in that subject. And if he doesn't know something, he will go, I don't know.

[A]

So, yeah, he's surprisingly smart when it comes to this. And I, and it's interesting too, because obviously Rogan has access to so many smart people, Huberman, you name it, and yet keeps bringing this guy on. And he seems very genuine also. You know, he went down that rabbit hole of like, you know, not being classically trained in the PhD world of, like, science and nutrition, however, was also like a jacked bodybuilder. So he's like, kind of done the experiments on himself, which is brave.

[B]

There's no substitute for experience. There's no substitute for experience if somebody has done the life at whatever level, because body, bodybuilding at whatever weight class and whatever level sucks. It's a, it's a bulk and then a cut and then a, and then you're in the week leading up to the show and you're miserable and then you're about to die before you get up on stage and you got to do all this prep and everything. It's terrible for your system. It's a, it's very painful. But, you know, you're addicted to it. You like doing it. So if somebody's put them through a whole cycle of bodybuilding cycle, and there's a lot of experience in there and lessons learned and, you know, you can sympathize with somebody if they're trying to go through the same thing and give them some pointers and, but there's no substitute for experience when it comes to any of this stuff. So you have to, you know, it's what I say about, you know, lifting weights. I very seldom take advice from people who haven't at least done some of the things I've done. You know, if, now, if they've got a, a tried and true program and then I, I have friends that have worked with them. Yeah, things, things like that. But, you know, I, I, we all are more apt to take advice from people that have been there and done the thing. And it seems like it sounds like he has done the research and some experience in the air in the area of focus that he's in. And also, you said he's had this guy on a lot of times, he records a good episode as well. And how many people can you just call up and say, we need to Record a banger and hey, you got a new thing. Come on. Yeah, and come out there because at Joe's level there's. You start counting up the people. How many people are a plus level celebrities that can come on and get on the schedule and record an excellent episode at the drop of a half.

[A]

Well, I think there's a bad habit that takes place with. And you know, maybe you can speak to this too, but I notice it like when it comes to Rogan gas, they go on enough times. Even Jordan Peterson, Lex Friedman, you name it, right? Weinstein, the rest of them, they go on initially and they went on because they're very interesting people with a lot to say. They talk about their background, their history, their whole story. But once they've been on three or four times, that's kind of done.

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See CarMax.com for details. So they haven't seen Joe and it's just like a catch up where they talk about whatever. And that's when Joe starts bringing up UFOs or elk hunting or AI or like anything that he's thinking about, which is fine because in the world of Rogan, it's like what is always being thrown around. What I like about Derek is because he's always doing his research, he's always doing his channel. He doesn't even come on with notes. He's just on to this next thing that he's been researching, right? And nutrition is changing so fast. He's got this New thing on peptides or he's got this new thing on GLP1, weight loss drugs or you know, what was he talking about? Like regrowing hair or getting tanned. It's like he always has like this new piece that is just different than last time. And it's not just like how are the kids, what are you up to? What's been going on? I've been watching these YouTube videos about whatever he is kind of always sticking to what we expect from him.

[B]

Yeah, you're 100% right. The field is rapidly changing even since the episode came out to now the big thing today is that the government's going after all of these not for human consumption or non pharmaceutically titrated peptides. That's the big thing today is now I'm watching reels right before I came on here that the government's going to start cracking down on these pharmacies that aren't FDA certified that are making peptides. And so that's the next thing that'll come out.

[A]

But on peptides, proteins or amino acids. Yeah, there's, they're not bad for you. Why do they care?

[B]

No, they're going to crack down on these peptide producing or supplement companies that aren't FDA certified that are just, they're making the stuff because there's, there's two kinds. There's you go through a doctor and then that doctors writes you a prescription and then they comes from a pharmacy and then there's the stuff that says on it. It'll say on there either for research purposes only or not for human consumption. That stuff's illegal. And almost all of the peptides out there are not for human consumption or they're labeled for research purposes only and the FDA is going to start cracking down on them. Yeah, but if it's a big thing.

[A]

If it's not harmful and they're good for you, like isn't that dumb? Imagine if like mushrooms are healthy. Not magic mushrooms, but regular mushrooms that you put on your pizza and the only ones you can buy are FDA approved and you need a prescription for it though farmers can just grow them and sell them and then you can eat them and they're delicious and they're healthy. It's like, yeah, I get the FDA stepping in to be like, no, you can't smoke crack. It's pretty bad. I love that. Thank you fda. Well that wouldn't be the fda, but whoever does that, it would make sense that somebody would step in to keep us safe. But if they're not actually Keeping us safe. Assuming that these labs are. Maybe the labs are like not clean or they, maybe the, you know, the percentages or whatever of whatever is in the chemical is not good. It's got like 12% of the peptide and the rest of it is some garbage. That's an issue. Like there should be oversight. But that's a lot of.

[B]

Brigham talks about that. In his episode, Brigham talks about the differences in certified or facilities that are approved for making these things and the ones that are not. So in the ones that aren't, they're just putting together the shit in the bottle. The difference between mushrooms, you know, just something and stuff that you inject under your skin is a little bit different of a subject. You know, when I was a kid and I'm trying to get bigger and I'm just taking some weird supplements that are coming in the mail, that's one thing. But now I'm a little older and I go, I'd really like to know what kind of medicine I'm taking here. And I'm going to go to a doctor and I hope and that doctor is going to get me the correct thing because he cares about me. And I only go to somebody that I trust. They are these, some of these companies, and I would say a vast majority of them do not give a. About you. No, I don't care about you at all. And if, however, that rope go a little bit, they're going to run with it and only make money.

[A]

Totally. But, but peptides are a little different than, you know, the anabolics, right? Like if you're getting like Chinese lab anabolics, that could be real suspect because you would, you would want 80s say. Well, go on, what's this?

[B]

There was a problem in the 80s where bodybuilders were buying Windstraw and it was just that car wax that you put on your tires and they were shooting it in their legs and they were having to get their whole quad, their legs cut open because it was causing an abscess and then compartment syndrome and rotting their legs out from the inside.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah. Don't get me wrong. I think quality and standards are very important, for sure. But however, peptides are just as far as I understand amino acids. So unless they are just shipping out, I don't know, car tire wax, which doesn't seem necessary if you're faking. Like, I don't think peptides are all that difficult to make, honestly.

[B]

Or they could be shipping out nothing. There could be nothing in it. It could just be saline solution that's true and all of that. Whatever, whatever. Because you just said as we started this episode, you're like I want to believe. And that's how people take advantage of other people is they. They act on the good faith and the belief of people that just will take their word for it. Every time in human history that we've had the chance to create something for the betterment of human existence, we've used it to kill other populations in other countries. So why would history prove any different now?

[A]

That's true. So you think that regulation across the board is better even if you can't get a hold of something that could.

[B]

Be therapeutically benefit personally or professionally through my business. What did I say? Or personally.

[A]

Off the record, no one's listening to this podcast. Off the record.

[B]

That is not true. You and I both know that's not true that no one's listening to this. Personally, I think people should be able to go to a vending machine and buy whatever the they want. There shouldn't be anything.

[A]

That's freedom, baby.

[B]

The Amer. You should be able to buy a fully loaded Abrams tank off of buy it now on Amazon next day shipping.

[A]

As long as you don't have to Ikea put it together. That would be annoying.

[B]

No, no, I want it. I want it fully assembled with the driver out front of my house as soon as I click by.

[A]

Dude, imagine the instructions imag. Imagine the instructions on that. Be a nightmare. But yeah, I like that.

[B]

Yes, you should be able to go to a vending machine and get whatever you want. This is America. The the government is restricting your movements. Now if that were to let that happen, would society collapse? Maybe. You know, you got to help have people and there's a whole mess of people that do not want the best for you. They don't give one about you and they will kill you at a moment's notice just to make some more money. So you. You do need balance. And in some cases, as much as I hate to say it, the government can prevent some bad things from happening.

[A]

No, you're totally right. Also, you're totally right. I mean look. Look at the ibogaine stuff. You know, it's been really helping these military guys that, you know, there was that. What was the special forces documentary they just did on Netflix.

[B]

The wind of with waters or what waves shoot something we're not doing. You messaged me about it.

[A]

Yeah, it was very good and I feel bad that I forget what it's called. But watch it. Google it. You'll figure it out. It was excellent. It's about ibogaine. You can really only get it in Mexico. There are like some places in the U.S. but you got to be real careful about it. The FDA are very upset with this drug and it's not going to kill you. It's not even addictive at all. And it really helps these people. So I'm. I'm suspicious of why they spend really any time on this.

[B]

Ibogaine's the most dangerous of all of them. That's why I begin. Yeah.

[A]

What is it doing?

[B]

Dangerous. So I had a. I had a. All right, so a little plug for myself. Lesser known operators episode. Now I don't even have the episode queued up to give a what episode is, but I had. I had Matthew Butler on and he, he is a former Green Beret who is now a shaman in Utah. And.

[A]

Oh, that one was great. I listened to that. That was great.

[B]

And he said he, he kind of ranked him. He's like, he went from mildest to most serious and needs the most attention. And he put ibogaine at the top. He. He says you need to have a cardiologist there so people don't go into cardiac arrest when they things.

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[B]

Wherever you listen to podcasts, that's. I mean, now I'm going back on my own interview. I think that's what he said. Now, I don't sound like an idiot, but it's my show. But he did say that that one is the most serious, where you need to take the most care with the people that you put under its influence because you can really them up.

[A]

Fair enough. So, yeah, but then maybe that's why.

[B]

And also, these people that work at the fda, they're just normal people that have normal lives and they probably have veteran friends that are up. And every once in a while, somebody that works for the government will get the correct information from somebody that went to one of these retreats or ceremonies, and they'll go, hey, this is something that needs to be taken seriously. And they'll take that person's word for it.

[A]

Right?

[B]

And that person has great influence. So you don't know who's feeding what information to whom. Because the problem, the, the good thing and the bad thing about our society all the time is people, people are always the best and the worst in, in any situation. And we, we feed off of emotions and the words of our friends, and those things might be just hearsay and things like that. So, you know, it is a government entity, but it's ran by people. And you don't know what information they're being fed, whether it's correct or incorrect.

[A]

Yeah, that's a good point. And that's good perspective to have because, you know, I mean, I'm more of an alternative type thinker like Rogan in that sense. It's, like, easy for me to just jump on. Oh, you know, pharmaceutical companies want to make money. They don't want to help us, though, obviously they do. And they do save lives. There's lots of medications that are super beneficial. There are safety protocols that take place. They spend hundreds of millions of dollars to make sure that these medications don't instantly kill us. Even if taking ibuprofen every day for 10 years is not great, it probably has certain benefits for certain people and it's not necessarily poisoning you right away. I still do jump on the alternative new hype medicine of like, oh, this is cure, you know, especially when I hear it's like helping these like, PTSD ex military people and they've had all this, like, suicide. I'm just like on board. It's like, all I need to hear is that. And I'm like, yes, let's go with this. But just like you're saying, there are a lot of factors, a lot of other factors involved in their safety.

[B]

Not to plug another one of mine, but another guy who's a, who's, who's another Green Beret, and he has dedicated himself to health initiatives within our special operations community. And I asked him, I said, what's the number one problem for special operators on this side of service? You know, because we've got blast, we've got amputations, we've got all kinds of right. Everything that can go wrong, you know, your careers and you're losing friends, friends is suicide and all this. And he goes, man, honestly. And it's not even close. Overwhelmingly, it's child childhood trauma. And that's before the service. So that's, it's all being exacerbated by service. He said, that's why plant medicine is so helpful, because we're using a treatment that it can actually work for these childhood traumas and actually start dealing with them and things like that. That's why you're getting into it. But he also said, these things are not a fix. All. You still have to do all the work after you take it. And we're, we're, we're glamorizing. I don't know if that's the right word, this plant medicine. And, and people are getting the impression that I can just go take this and I'll feel better. And then what? That's, that's, that's not how it works. You have to really get everything in your life put back together afterwards. Yes, you can see the path forward now and you might feel a little better, but you still have to do all the work. So I'm very supportive of anything that'll help the guys. And especially when it comes to things I can't understand because I don't know what they're going through. I don't have those traumas. I didn't go to war. I didn't, you know, I didn't have some of these things. I understand, but I don't know. So anything that can help them with things Something I really don't have that perspective on. I'm all behind. But again I go back to is we have to be careful because again there's people that are will take advantage of somebody that's miserable and they won't think twice about it. And somebody that's hurting and just wants help, I don't want guys to make it worse for themselves because that's when we see somebody check out early and that really.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Well that brings up a big, you know, an important point because let's be fair, when they were showing the pictures of him early on, he wasn't on stuff that was prescribed by a doctor and they didn't really cover what he was on. And he's talked about it openly, you know, Derek has. And it was like, you know, it's black market stuff. You using like I don't know, Bitcoin or some other thing to buy something off the dark web or however you get ahold of this, you can get it mailed to your house. Again, who knows if it's lab tested or what, what the quality is. But even if it is, it's not prescribed. So what's happening is it's self prescribed, right? So let's say even me as like, let's say I wanted to get on something, right? I'm like inspired by you, but I'm just going at it the wrong way and I like want to just be as strong as you are. I'm like, you know what I'm going to do? I'm just going to get on all the juices. So I google some stuff and it's like, right, here's all the stuff they gives me, the websites. I get on it and I'm like what dose? And you know, chatgpt tells me, I don't know, you can probably trick the AIs into telling you how much to take, but you're self prescribing like there's no doctor in the middle being like, this is how much you, you can literally take as much of that stuff as you want to.

[B]

You can kill yourself any the dosage makes the poison, right? You can kill yourself drinking enough water, eat enough vitamin C. So they brought it up in the episode. They said guys in the past would think that this other bodybuilder or competitor had an advantage over them or they were bigger because they were taking something else or they weren't taking enough so they would just up it. And that's when you would see these adverse health reactions to these guys when there wasn't a lot of this information because like 5,000 years ago, you know how they found out mushrooms were poisonous for you? Larry died. That's how they found out. You know, and that's the same thing that happened in the 60s. You know how they found out how much test you can take? Well, Jim, he. His liver or his kidneys failed, and then he died a horrible, painful death. So they gained knowledge like that. Trial and error. We don't have to do that anymore. We have all the science and all the blood tests and all these tests could see if you're, I think Derek said, a good candidate for these modalities.

[A]

Yeah. And talking about good candidates, I mean, you know, let's say you and I working out together for whatever reason, we just decided, like, oh, we're gonna work out together. And I'm like, God, I gotta keep up with Nick. He's just getting bigger and bigger and stronger. And it's like, look, I'm tall enough, but I don't have your frame. I can't hold the muscle that you do. So I just think, oh, all I need to do is just keep upping my dose so that I can keep up with your types of lifts. Probably for a while it would work, but just like Derek was saying, genetically, it's just gonna stop eventually. Like, I'm not gonna have all those pieces. Something's gonna explode.

[B]

You. If I, if I. I don't train anybody. I don't tell anybody what to do. I tell them exactly what I do. And you can do whatever you want with that information. First, if you were to train with me, I would talk you out of that mindset as much as I could. And if you didn't want to listen to me, then that's fine. And then. But if you didn't, you're like, oh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna catch up to you. Then I would explain to you how if you jump on performance enhancing drugs, your joints will not keep up with your muscles, so your chance of injury goes up like 400%. So it's best to use a slow, gradual approach to try and get to where I am, as opposed to trying to jump and gain things by taking substances or overdoing it. So, yeah, you can do that. But doubling the amount of muscle you have and strength increases your chance of getting injured by four times. Yeah, these, these things don't. Don't build your connective tissue as fast as they build your muscle. So you can blow out your shoulder, blow out your hip, you know, you'll see, you'll see people snap bones as well. They'll have too much weight on there and they're the impact, they're not used to the impact of that much weight and they'll snap bones and.

[A]

Oh, so those YouTube. No, Instagram videos of someone doing like leg press. And it just freaks me out.

[B]

I posted a video today, you know, because people, they'll message me, I train legs, full range of motion to the point where it looks like I'm going to break my knees. But I've been doing this for a long time and I know that that's the way I can train. So I just put out a video today. It's like I tried to break my knees today. I was unsuccessful. And people are so upset because you can't do it like that. No, you can't do it like that. I can do it like that. I can do that like that because I know what I'm doing. I've been doing this for 25 years now, lifting. And I'm used to it. But people think again with these, with plant medicine, with peptides, with steroids and all these other things that it's just this magic pill.

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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That's why CarMax offers an experience designed just for you.

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Wanna start online, then visit the lot, then go back online?

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[B]

Either works.

[A]

Wanna take your time and compare all the makes and models?

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No problem.

[A]

Then make up some time by filling.

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Done. When it comes to how you buy, CarMax puts you in the driver's seat.

[B]

Want to drive? CarMax delivery restrictions apply. See CarMax.com for details. Lee Priest he said I don't give a if you're natural. I don't give a if you're on gear. You still got to work your ass off. And it's the same with anything else. The hardest part about the gym is not lifting weights. It's your diet, your ex or your diet, your sleep, your dedication to commitment, to showing up regularly. It's all the other that nobody sees. The meals and the waking up early and going to do cardio and you don't want to do it and all this other. Lifting weights is fun. That's the start. You show off, you get to lift the weights. But it's just like your mental health or your relationships or everything else in your life. All the boring is what matters, not the fun.

[A]

Yeah, but it's so addictive for some people. And, you know, I remember being in my early 20s and like back then you could get. Oh, man, GNC was like off the hook with the stuff you could buy then. It was like G2 explosion nuclear blast supplement.

[B]

Well, they were right about Jack 3D. That was. Jack 3D is still talked about in military meme circles.

[A]

Did you ever try it?

[B]

Yeah, fucking. That shit will kill you, man. Remember ephedra? Remember you would. I remember when I was a high school wrestling dudes would be taking hydroxy cut, I think, which had ephedra in it or some.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

To lose weight. And that's when 4 loco had like 6 energy drinks and in a case of beer in it for, you know, one 4 loco. And then you'd have Jack 3D, a 4 loco and some ephedra all in one day because you just wanted to kill yourself. But you didn't know it was in that. Nobody knew it was in it, dude.

[A]

I went to the gym one time and we had a guy in there that was like a local bodybuilder. He was a big guy. He was on TV in England on this game show called. Golden Joystick. It was like a video game one. And he would come out wearing like a welding mask, but just look jacked. And he would award the nerds that won the video games competition this golden joystick, right? It was just the thing he did. But he worked out in our local gym and he gave me like five ephedra tablets once. And he was like, just take these. Not a big deal. And the way he gave it to me was like, oh, this is normal. Just work out with this. And I remember I was like 21 and I was getting strong, you know, and I. And I was working out a bit, but I hadn't, I hadn't like done some like personal best lifts. And I took one of those. And that day I benched like 3:15 once, which for me was a lot, like, especially back then. Like, it was a ton of weight. And it was just pure insanity. I remember my brain just going, you can do it. You could probably do twice this. I was probably on the verge of a heart attack.

[B]

Definitely, Definitely. Where you took years off your life probably that day. Don't say that by taking someone. That's tough. No. Okay. You added years to your life. It's actually good for you. You're right. That was helpful.

[A]

But it is wild that that stuff was just floating around back then. You could just get a hold of the craziest stuff. GNC was out of control. How is it still in business?

[B]

All right, here, now let's. Let's take what you just said in this subject about how things were back in GNC and now apply it to what I just told you about peptides and what's being put out into the market. And the FDA is cracking down on them. Okay. In the past, you could buy actual steroids and speed from gnc and because it was the wild west. And now right now is the wild west of peptides. And the FDA is like, we gotta stop this. So what the going on there that they're seeing that we're not seeing? Is there actually horse tranquilizers in there that are. They're selling to people? Are people getting hurt that we're not hearing about in the news with these peptides? So. So if in the past these companies snuck drugs into these. Into these things because. Because nobody was watching them, what makes you think that people aren't sneaking now into the stuff that they're putting out with no regulation?

[A]

Well, I think the difference is this. The. What they were trying to gain back then was like, you take something and you feel instantly different. You feel like super jazzed. You're fucking popping out of your eyeballs and it's full of nitrogen or whatever they used to put that stuff in. And I don't know, you got huge zits on your back because it's like causing some physiological effect. The peptide stuff is for healing. It's not to make you jacked. So they would literally have to add. I get it. I get what you're saying. But they would have to add something for no reason, which would cost money. So it either does nothing, like you.

[B]

Said, or add nothing.

[A]

But if it does nothing, that's better than popping your heart out of your body.

[B]

Is it ethical? And then, as he said, I'm not saying it's good.

[A]

1Real said, it's not good.

[B]

As 1Real said. They go, the FDA, these big companies have these patents, and now that they're going to start producing peptides on a large scale. Well, you got to get rid of all the illegal too. And who's paying the FDA's lobbyists and things like that? Well, big companies.

[A]

Well, that's why I'm more suspicious. That's why I'm more suspicious.

[B]

The rich and powerful have always, always ruled the world, Adam. You as a Brit should know that.

[A]

That sounds. That sounds anti colonialism. I'll take it.

[B]

Oh, I'm over here in America. I'm mostly British, actually, so.

[A]

Okay, all right, all right. Look, I'm not pro them either. There's a reason I fled the country. No, you're right. I want regulations on these things. I don't like the idea of being able to buy definitely the anabolics offline online. I mean, and I don't know some of the names of the other ones, Dynable or Tren or this type of stuff like that. Seems like a bad move to be able to get that.

[B]

Of all the ones to take. If you're listening at home, you take anything from this interview and you're a bodybuilder, you're getting a bling. Put Trent at the end of the list. You do not need that one. That one is the worst one for.

[A]

What does it do?

[B]

It can with your lung. They all can. They all. If you take too many of them. I don't even have the stuff any in front of me anymore about what it'll do to you.

[A]

Wait, why is it bad for you to.

[B]

L. You get this. You get this. You get this cough. You get this mucusy cough when you're. When you're on trend and. And it's you. Anyway, I've sampled it. I don't recommend it.

[A]

Okay. No, that's good. That's enough. So I'm not going to try it.

[B]

I want to stay away from it and professionally. Go see your doctor and consult with a medical professional.

[A]

Yeah, and I agree with you. Like, be careful with those websites online. It seems just like an unnecessary risk. You know, I don't think it's going to be that long before you can get. I'm pretty sure you can already get good peptides from the fda, can't you?

[B]

My sponsor for my show is a green beret that is now a medical doctor in North Carolina. He's licensed in 30 states and he gives me my TRT and my peptides.

[A]

There we go. Plug it.

[B]

Precision Wellness Group out of Southern Pines, North Carolina, by Dr. Taylor Bosley.

[A]

Oh, nice. Yeah, I mean, that. That has to be the better move. I mean, sure, it may not be the cheapest way to go, but I think that they are doing a pretty good job bringing these prices down. I saw something yesterday where you could be on. If you're older gentlemen or just have low TRT, you can be on it for like 90 bucks a month, which, yeah, it's not nothing, you know, but I think that if you could figure it in your budget, and especially if you drink or have some other, you know, bad habits that cost money, if you could switch that to TRT and the doctor thought that it was a good move for you to get on it. That's. That's a great switch.

[B]

You said, you know, you said drink there if. And, well, alcohol is expensive. Think. People think that a lot of these things are going to fix all of their problems. But if you have a drinking problem or you have an addiction that you can't get over, there's nothing that's going to get you off of that until you solve problem A, Then you can move on to problem B and things like that. But that's what I found. Like, when I was. When I was drinking, the only thing that made me better was quitting drinking. And then I can move on to the next problem and start making the rest of my life healthier. But, you know, and that's a decision I had to make. I had to change. And because I was nobody else, there was no influence anybody was going to say anything to me. It's because people don't change unless they have to or want to. So. And that's what I help with my stuff. Right? That's why I tell everybody exactly what I've been through and what I go through and what I take is. Because I am not going to sway anybody's opinion going forward in life. All I can do is try and be a better example. So people will want to make a decision on their own that'll work for them. Telling people or. Because people don't read and they don't listen, but they will watch what you do, and they hopefully will be inspired by what you do. And that's why I am the way I am with what I do.

[A]

That's a great message, man. And, you know, that's why I think Derek coming on Rogan, you know, he does something similar. You know, he's been through it. He's been through the juice. He's taken a step back. He does it healthy. He wants to tell us how to do it. I mean, you know, Nick, I haven't known you that long. You've been an inspiration to me. It's knowing people that inspire you in the right direction. Just like you said. Like you've never told me anything. You've never said Adam, do this or do that. But you just represent. You do your thing and you show it online, you show it in our conversations. You always bring it and there's no bullshit. And that message is better than anything.

[B]

I appreciate that. Thank you.

[A]

All right, guys, well, thank you so much for listening. Check out this episode. I really liked it. I would give this. I like Derek. I like him a lot. I give it a 8 out of 10 for sure.

[B]

Anything. Big fan. Anything to get more information to the health, health and wellness of people is is in the 80s at least.

[A]

Let's go. All right. Thank you so much. We'll talk to you next time, guys. Later.