The Joe Rogan Experience #2490 – RZA (April 28, 2026)

Guest: RZA – Rapper, Producer, Filmmaker (Wu-Tang Clan)
Host: Joe Rogan

Episode Overview

This episode features an in-depth, free-flowing conversation between Joe Rogan and legendary Wu-Tang Clan producer/MC, filmmaker, and creative force RZA. The two discuss health and martial arts, the intersection of philosophy and physical practice, the global impact of resource extraction, the opioid crisis, the intersection of art, technology, and authenticity, and RZA’s new film, One Spoon of Chocolate, produced with Quentin Tarantino. The conversation blends RZA’s wisdom with Rogan’s curiosity, touching on everything from self-improvement routines to AI, art, exploitation, food choices, music, and the deeper value of human and natural resources.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Maintaining Practices of Growth & Centering

• Physical, Mental, Spiritual Alignment
  • Both Rogan and RZA emphasize the importance of sticking to routines that center them. RZA talks about tai chi, stretching, exercise, and how easy it is to lose touch with the habits that "made us solid" as life gets busier.
  • [03:29] Joe Rogan: "If I don't work out, like just a couple days in a row, I start feeling weird...crack, crack, antsy. I feel irritated. I don’t think I’m thinking clear."
• Qigong & Shaolin Philosophy
  • RZA shares wisdom from his sifu and Shaolin practice: the idea that you must exercise before eating, and that movement keeps the chi (life force) and blood energized.
  • [06:28] RZA: "Sifu... looks 10 years younger than me. He said, ‘I do it because it feels good...’ but also, in Shaolin, you run up the mountain and do chores before you eat. If you don’t do that, you don’t eat."

2. Discipline, Willpower, and the Mind-Body Link

• Starting the Day with Victories
  • Enjoying small wins like early workouts, embracing discomfort (cold plunges), and building willpower are stressed.
  • [08:25] Rogan: "You get up, you get shit done... I already won, I’ve got a victory over my inner bitch."
• The Cold Plunge Challenge
  • Rogan touts the benefits—endorphin rush, dopamine, mental fortitude—of cold exposure, while RZA relates his experience with a Tibetan monk and overcoming his aversion to cold.
  • [11:45] Rogan: "It sucks. Every time I do it, I almost don’t do it. The mind game is immediate, like, oh fuck this, let’s get out of here..."
  • [15:45] Rogan: "There’s a giant increase in dopamine that lasts like two to three hours after you’re out of the cold plunge."

3. Martial Arts as a Path & Metaphor

• Mental & Emotional Benefits
  • Martial arts are portrayed not just as combat arts but vehicles for self-realization, willpower, and channeling emotion.
  • [16:34] RZA: "Seven planes of energies... You realize that with a strong will, you can control others as well. Some people are walking around with weak wills."
• Art of Not Fighting & Real-world Survival
  • RZA and Joe discuss how, ultimately, the true art is avoiding conflict; fighting is will, instinct, and survival when rules don’t exist.
  • [27:04] RZA: "It’s not easy for your spirit to do it [harm someone]. ...Your willpower better be strong to survive."
  • RZA credits martial arts for helping channel his youthful anger into music and cinema.

4. Opioid Crisis & Medical Exploitation

• The Sackler Family & 'Painkiller'
  • Rogan brings up the Netflix “Painkiller” series, detailing how one family’s pharmaceutical empire led to the death of tens of thousands via opioid addiction, with little legal consequence.
    • [35:55] Rogan: "No one’s gone to jail. They’re the biggest drug dealers that have ever existed."
• Personal Encounters with Overprescription
  • Rogan recounts his own experience being prescribed two opioids for a minor surgery, talking about financial incentives for doctors.
    • [42:14] RZA: "So the doctor basically gave you some free... to have you as a customer."
• Broader Medical Abuse
  • Rogan references true cases of cancer-free patients being prescribed chemo for profit: "Money would incentivize someone to tell a person... You have cancer" [46:01].

5. Global Exploitation: Cobalt, Minerals, and Human Value

• Modern Slavery in Resource Extraction
  • The conversation shifts to cobalt mining in Congo (Siddharth Kara's book "Cobalt Red"), with women and children laboring in toxic conditions for minerals critical to global tech.
    • [51:26] Rogan: "All this is super toxic... Our phones are literally powered by slave labor."
    • RZA mirrors these realities in his lyrics (“The Great Fisherman”) and discusses the continuity from King Leopold’s rubber exploitation to today.
• Ownership, Value, Trickle Down
  • Both question why locals don’t benefit, likening Congo to Alaska, where citizens get royalties from natural resources.
    • [58:53] RZA: "If that's on my property, I should get paid off of that."
• Philosophical—Knowing Your Value
  • RZA likens resource wealth in the Middle East (oil) to prophesies of "abundant wells," advocating for people to realize the value beneath their feet.
    • [60:41] RZA: "People got to realize that they are not poor, right? If that is valuable and you're standing on it, then you're standing on value."

6. Art as Expression and Influence

• One Spoon of Chocolate
  • RZA promotes his new film (inspired by his own journey and anger channeled into art), starring Shameik Moore and Paris Jackson, produced with Quentin Tarantino. Through the film’s plot and characters, he explores themes of anger, self-mastery, and wisdom from elders.
    • [31:53] RZA: "Sometimes, yo, calm down. Listen to the wisdom of your elders."
• Music, Peers, and Influences
  • The episode includes shoutouts to artists like the Isley Brothers, Brand New Heavies, Cool G Rap, and discussions about music’s influence across genres.

7. Technology & Authenticity

• AI, Lab Diamonds, and Super Clones
  • The authenticity of things (diamonds, watches) is debated—what's the value of the "real thing"?
    • [155:01] RZA: "Artificial sounds cheap... You don’t want artificial nothing... Find the A word that makes it what it is—assisting intelligence."
• VR/AR Cinema and the Future of Movies
  • Both marvel at new innovations (AMC’s 270° screens, immersive viewing experiences) and the challenge of keeping cinema alive.
    • [142:29] RZA: "This is giving me hope... This is hope for cinema."

8. Food, Veganism, and Nutrition

• Diet Choices
  • RZA discusses his vegan diet (beans, lentils, tofu, pumpkin seeds), his avoidance of eggs (personality-based, detail-oriented), and the unique health benefits of his favorite foods.
• Cultural Food Experiences
  • They trade stories about Mexican food in LA/Texas, Indian food, the importance of authenticity, and even celebrity Chipotle cards.

9. Random Insights & Playful Moments

• Calculating Earth's Value and Weight
  • The two geek out using AI to calculate the Earth's surface area, weight, and hypothetical global "worth", leading to existential economic questions.
• On Driving, Automation, and Self-Driving Cars
  • RZA shares he hasn't driven since 2012, adjusting to life post-China trip, while Rogan discusses his Tesla self-driving experiences.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Willpower & Discipline:
  • "Get up in the morning, get your chi going, and have a beautiful day." — RZA [08:05]
  • "You already won. I got a victory over my inner bitch.” — Rogan [08:25]
• On Cold Plunges:
  • "Every time I do it, I almost don't do it... there’s a little mind game that goes on. You gotta concentrate on breathing." — Rogan [11:45]
• On Martial Arts & Fighting:
  • "A fight is a fight. I don't care... If you could run, bro, run." — RZA [28:17]
• On Pharmaceutical Exploitation:
  • "They're the biggest drug dealers that have ever existed...70,000 people a year." — Rogan [35:55]
• On Cobalt Mining:
  • "Our connectivity is powered by abject poverty... The blood of the Congo powers our lives." — Rogan [51:26]
  • "But they got a small zone for their phones, though, because they don't even got reception out there." — RZA, quoting his own lyrics [54:36]
• On Artificial vs. Real:
  • "Artificial sounds cheap...Don't change the A, could be assisted, accumulated, adaptive intelligence." — RZA [154:35]
  • "Anything is good until the real thing shows up." — RZA [165:42]
• On Diamonds:
  • "If you look at it, it’s a real diamond. It’s just not created by the earth over time, it’s created in a laboratory." — Rogan [155:24]

Timestamps for Major Segments

• 00:13-08:47 | Routine, health practices, and daily willpower
• 11:33-15:57 | Cold plunges, mental challenge, and physiological benefits
• 16:00-27:40 | Martial arts, willpower, philosophy, and the difference between fighting & the arts
• 28:51-31:53 | Art as anger management, the process of artistic transformation
• 32:37-43:56 | Advice from elders, opioid crisis, overprescription, and medical exploitation
• 48:51-56:40 | Cobalt mining, global exploitation, artisan perspective
• 58:26-64:37 | Ownership, value, and social change in resource-producing nations
• 67:03-77:12 | Film, music, cultural influence, Wu-Tang, and the importance of cinema
• 87:28-94:45 | Cannabis, addiction, and health outcomes (marijuana vs. obesity vs. opioids)
• 97:14-102:20 | Vegan diet, nutrition, food philosophies
• 109:35-112:48| Food cultures, best Mexican and Indian food
• 114:26-117:40| Self-driving cars, automation, life changes
• 121:08-127:02| Earth’s surface area, economic worth, playful curiosity
• 132:32-136:22| Theatrical vs. streaming film, premiering on 35mm, RZA’s story
• 140:42-144:52| VR/AR, movie-going future, immersive experiences
• 154:00-156:21| Artificial intelligence, AI as a tool, authenticity
• 164:10-174:33| Fake vs. real watches, designer clones, brand value
• 175:03-end | Promoting One Spoon of Chocolate, love for cinema & audience experience

Tone & Flow

The episode is a seamless blend of RZA’s spiritual and esoteric musings with Rogan’s energetic, practical questioning and digressions. There’s playfulness and humor—particularly around cold plunges, weed, and luxury goods—enlivening the gravity of topics like exploitation and the opioid crisis. The deep respect between host and guest is evident in their back-and-forth, sharing wisdom from martial arts to music, and always tying abstract musings back to life, art, and self-improvement.

In Essence

If you missed the episode:
RZA and Rogan offer a lively meditation on the value of discipline, the challenge of modern distractions, the need for art and self-knowledge, and the cost of global progress—while never losing sight of humor, music, and the small victories that define the journey. The episode also serves as a passionate call to see One Spoon of Chocolate—both as art and as a conversation about survival, willpower, history, and the resilience of the human spirit.

Recommended Segment:

• RZA on learning from his Shaolin sifu and the importance of willpower ([06:10–07:33])
• Stern conversation on the Sackler family and opioid crisis ([35:55])
• Joe and RZA confronting modern-day slavery in the Congo for tech ([51:26–54:35])
• Discussion on what authenticity means in the age of AI, lab diamonds, and super-clone watches ([154:00–156:21])

Watch, think, and take your chi where it needs to go.