JRE MMA Show #182 - Protect Ya Neck

Summary

The Joe Rogan Experience MMA Show #182: Protect Ya Neck

Release Date: July 9, 2026
Host: Joe Rogan
Guests: Matt Serra, Jamie Varner

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Joe Rogan Experience MMA Show (#182, "Protect Ya Neck") is a roundtable conversation about MMA legends, fight game evolution, the science and art of training as you age, and notable recent and upcoming fights. The trio, with typical banter and humor, swing from deep technical analysis to pop culture, movie reviews, and reflections on martial arts careers.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Rock Stars, Bizarre Hobbies, and Bonsai Trees

(Timestamp: 00:15–03:27)

• Matt and Jamie swap stories about Tommy Lee (Mötley Crüe drummer) and his obsession with bonsai trees and Zen gardens.
  • "He's like a big kid, man... Like a 15-year-old that just never had to grow up." — Jamie Varner [00:23]
  • Discussion about celebrities' quirky passions and the culture around ancient bonsai.
  • Fun segue into the longevity of touring rock stars, aging, and how their lifestyles change.

2. Aging, Maintenance, & Training Longevity in Martial Arts

(Timestamp: 05:25–11:16)

• The group reflects on aging in MMA and the wider world, how old fighters and rockers remain active, and the importance of maintaining fitness, especially as an athlete in your 40s, 50s, and beyond.
• "If you don’t maintain, you’re never getting it back." — Matt Serra [08:46]
• "Think about like in the 80s, what 40 year olds looked like in the 80s." — Joe Rogan [08:13]
• Discussion of healing speed at different ages, injury mitigation, adaptation of training, and the pitfalls of starting jiu-jitsu or wrestling late.

3. Fight Analysis: Brady vs. Buckley, and the Unified Rules

(Timestamp: 12:10–14:12)

• In-depth breakdown of Sean Brady’s dominance over Joaquin Buckley.
  • "The level of domination was, like, shocking." — Matt Serra [12:24]
• Criticism of the "12 to 6 elbows" rule and inconsistent application of unified rules between states.
  • "If you can elbow this way and this way and this way, but you can’t go this way, that’s just retarded." — Matt Serra [13:44]

4. Organ Transplant Reality for Fighters

(Timestamp: 15:07–18:17)

• Extended discussion about athletes who undergo major organ transplants attempting to return to competition.
  • "Sometimes when you’re a winner, your will is so strong that you think you could force your body into unrealistic expectations." — Matt Serra [18:35]
• Serious reflection on fighter Ben Askren's health and the dangers for anyone competing after transplantation.

5. Martial Arts Evolution & Grappling Legends

(Timestamp: 20:19–32:31)

• Praise for Ben Askren’s wrestling, old-school style vs. style matchups, and how jiu-jitsu and wrestling became global phenomenons.
• Insight into early UFC days, the influence of the Gracie family, and how the sport’s growth changed training paradigms.
  • "The world owes [the Gracies]... the whole world." — Joe Rogan [29:26]
• Musings on whether styles like Wing Chun have any place in modern MMA, with focus on adaptability and hybridization in elite competition.

6. Striking Styles, Point Karate, and Kickboxing

(Timestamp: 34:03–42:42)

• Technical breakdown of the value of point fighting karate and Muay Thai in MMA, using examples like Wonderboy Thompson, Michael Page (MVP), and Cédric Doumbé.
  • "If you can do that right, no one will catch you." — Joe Rogan [35:11]
• Discussion of recent high-level kickboxing crossovers and notable athletes like Rico Verhoeven, Usyk, and the technical nuances of stand-up fighting in modern MMA.

7. Pop Culture Digressions: Movies & TV

(Timestamp: 44:59–74:04)

• Spirited reviews of movies (new He-Man, Joker sequels, Rocky on Broadway, old action flicks like Roadhouse).
• Riffing on Broadway adaptations and the declining magic of 80s/90s action films compared to today.
  • "Roadhouse is such a bad movie. It’s so bad. I mean, it’s so insanely... guy’s bad, the writing is bad, everything is bad, except for Patrick Swayze’s hair. That’s amazing." — Matt Serra [63:12]
• Shout-outs to actors (Sam Elliott, Nicolas Cage) and the resurgence of comedians making comedy movies independently.

8. Fight Week Focus: McGregor vs. Holloway

(Timestamp: 75:39–108:41)

• Vivid breakdown of the upcoming McGregor vs. Max Holloway fight. The team analyzes strengths, possible strategies, and question marks post-Conor’s injury, age, and lifestyle changes.
• Max’s relentless pace, durability, legendary fights with Dustin and Ilya, and cardio advantages are discussed.
  • "If Conor don't knock him out early, he's in for a long night." — Joe Rogan [105:19]
  • "He’s [Max] the guy in the last round 30. He’s winning a fight. He’s fresh. His fifth round is as good as his first round." — Joe Rogan [106:43]

9. Grappling Technique Deep Dive: Chokes & Transitions

(Timestamp: 111:36–117:45)

• Matt Serra details the Japanese necktie submission, advantages for short-armed grapplers, and why some effective submissions (like the “Executioner”) are rare in MMA.
• Extended coach’s corner tips about attack angles, grip variations, and why some jiu-jitsu techniques don’t show up in MMA.

10. Old-School Rules, Controversies, and Sport Evolution

(Timestamp: 124:49–132:49)

• Riffing on rule inconsistencies (strikes to back of head, headbutts, fence grabs, nuts punching) and nostalgia for Wild West MMA days.
  • "Isn't that crazy, though? You kind of should be able to hit the back of the head." — Matt Serra [124:49]
• Memories of Vitor Belfort’s debut, Tank Abbott, the old glove/shoe rules, and wild legalities in early UFCs.

11. Injuries and the Price of Combat Sports

(Timestamp: 139:38–142:41)

• Descriptions of brutal injuries: broken legs (Weidman, Anderson Silva), heel hooks, and kimura finishes.
• Cautionary tales about the physical toll of martial arts, and the psychological edge required to keep competing after devastating KOs.

12. Comedy & Cancel Culture

(Timestamp: 143:46–151:34)

• Commentary about the resurgence of comedian-driven film projects, changes in what’s considered acceptable, and the status of cancel culture.
  • "It’s only empowered the clubs, like clubs are packed. Yeah, everybody wants... People want to laugh. They don’t... It doesn’t mean you mean what you’re saying." — Matt Serra [148:53]
• Brief discussion of Kanye (Ye’s) arena shows, Prince, and the creative process.

13. Music Legends and Castrato History (Bizarre But True)

(Timestamp: 154:03–157:34)

• Fascinating information about Michael Jackson, rumors of chemical castration to preserve his voice, and a deep-dive into the history of “castratos.”
  • "There's only one recording of a castrato that's from…like the 1800s… you hear the guy singing and he creeps you out." — Matt Serra [156:29]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "You have a Corvette, you take it around the track, you can only do so many laps... Even Formula One cars...they break." — Matt Serra (Talking about athletic longevity) [11:38]
• "I wish the UFC would just accommodate no weight cutting." — Matt Serra [105:31]
• "Every actor that's ever lived has been in a couple lemons." — Matt Serra (On bad movies) [65:39]
• "You see ugly right there, bro." — Joe Rogan (On John McCarthy's timing with jokes in the cage) [136:19]
• "Comedians are making comedies again. I miss those." — Joe Rogan [144:09]
• "He’s the goat. Like no one’s even close. He’s like one of the greatest performers of all time." — Matt Serra (on Kanye West) [151:31]
• "The world owes [the Gracies]… the whole world." — Joe Rogan [29:26]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:15 — Tommy Lee stories & bonsai obsession
• 05:25 — Aging, gray beards, and athletic maintenance
• 12:10 — Breakdown: Brady vs. Buckley
• 15:07 — Athletes with organ transplants
• 20:19 — Grappling prowess and evolution of martial arts
• 34:03 — The value of point karate & Muay Thai
• 44:59 — Movie and TV digressions
• 75:39 — Fight week: Conor McGregor vs. Max Holloway
• 111:36 — Submission technique: Japanese Neck Tie
• 124:49 — Old-school MMA rules, fouls, back of the head strikes
• 139:38 — Leg breaks, heel hooks, and MMA injuries
• 143:46 — Modern comedies and the studio system
• 154:03 — Michael Jackson, castratos, and how far people go for greatness

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Tone & Language

The conversation reflects the authentic, unfiltered style familiar to JRE listeners—irreverent, humorous, sometimes crude, with a deep layer of expertise when discussing martial arts and pop culture. There’s a brotherly camaraderie among Joe Rogan, Matt Serra, and Jamie Varner, blending technical insights with laughter and nostalgia.

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Summary Takeaway

This episode delivers a classic mix of technical MMA talk, hilarious storytelling, brutal honesty about aging and injury, criticism of dumb rules, and off-the-cuff pop culture commentary. For fans—whether you care more about fight IQ, old-school UFC, or just hearing legends shoot the breeze—this is over two solid hours of unapologetic, insightful, and entertaining MMA radio.

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Transcript

[Joe Rogan]

Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.

[Matt Serra]

The Joe Rogan Experience Train my day.

[Joe Rogan]

Joe Rogan podcast by night all day. Hey,

[Jamie Varner]

what's up bros?

[Matt Serra]

So your boy Tommy was awesome.

[Jamie Varner]

Good.

[Matt Serra]

He was really cool.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah. I actually listened on the way out to that one.

[Matt Serra]

He's really fun. Tommy Lee's fun.

[Jamie Varner]

He's like a big kid, man. He is kid.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. Like a 15 year old that just never, you know, had to grow up.

[Jamie Varner]

All the way up.

[Matt Serra]

Because he did famous when he was 18.

[Jamie Varner]

Exactly.

[Matt Serra]

So he really never had to grow up. He just stayed Tommy Lee.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah. I'm glad you finally got to have him on.

[Matt Serra]

It was very cool.

[Jamie Varner]

So it was good.

[Matt Serra]

It's weird that he's. He's really in a bonsai trees.

[Jamie Varner]

Oh big time. Crazy trims him up.

[Matt Serra]

Got like 100 year old find them at his. You make them yourself?

[Jamie Varner]

His yard. He'll. He sets up like a whole like Zen garden type of thing. It's pretty wild. But he's, he's been into those and he likes to trim them up and you know, it's pretty, pretty, pretty wild. He's just, he's a positive energy, nice guy. Like he's never, never been in my, you know, what do you want to say? Interactions with him. Never. He's never been a dick. Never. Never. He's like, I just. He was cool to work for.

[Matt Serra]

Well, I only worked. I, I met him rather when you were working with him when you were his bodyguard. And then this is the other time I met him. So he's super cool.

[Jamie Varner]

Nice.

[Joe Rogan]

Good. I remember him in the car.

[Jamie Varner]

It's because I remember this pecker's as tall as you are.

[Joe Rogan]

I rem huge dick with Pamela Anderson.

[Matt Serra]

He's got a lot of advantages in this life, doesn't he?

[Joe Rogan]

Good Lord.

[Matt Serra]

Good lord.

[Jamie Varner]

God damn person.

[Matt Serra]

And one of the greatest drummers of all time.

[Joe Rogan]

That was like one of the first sex tapes.

[Matt Serra]

Oh yeah. That was probably the first celebrities actual celebrities did allow them to get famous afterwards. Well, they were already famous. That was why it was crazy. Both of them were super famous. Right.

[Joe Rogan]

But I mean allow the like to keep. To catapult them into like a different stratosphere.

[Matt Serra]

Right. Well, anytime one of them celebrities is dating another celebrity, they. That's like their superpowers unite.

[Jamie Varner]

He was with Heather Locklear too, right?

[Matt Serra]

Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean he was a fun dude. The, the, the trees thing is wild though. I didn't know that. These people, they have like hundred year old trees, 200 year old tree, 300 year old bonsai trees and they pass them down through generations. They have like paperwork. So you know, like who's the guy who first started the tree? And they've got these trees that are like several hundred years old and they're like this big and they're in like a pot. It's all like an artistic thing. They're trimming them in certain patterns and every time they try to grow, you trim them down and they just like tighten up and it makes a weird form.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah, it comes out. They're pretty cool looking.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, actually I wonder if the tree likes it though. She's like, hey, I'm trying to grow 300 years old, I'm 16 inches tall. This is retarded.

[Jamie Varner]

I think for him though, he's had such a crazy high paced life that the yin to the yang, you know what I mean? That's how he relaxes.

[Matt Serra]

I love hearing it. It sounded perfect. I was like, oh, you found a great thing.

[Jamie Varner]

And you see he's a gearhead too, like you. So you guys had a little.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, he's talking about bonding on the cars. First cars he bought, he bought a, an old Corvette. It was. Got a fucking supercharger put on it.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's. He's a maniac. He's definitely a maniac. But a very nice, I mean, rock and roll man. Oh yeah.

[Matt Serra]

The guy was the, the drummer for MLE Crew. I don't, can't even at 18, can't even imagine what that must have been like. Must have been insane.

[Joe Rogan]

A lot of these guys, they don't want to stop touring. All these rock and roll stuff.

[Matt Serra]

Why would they want to see that?

[Joe Rogan]

Adrenaline should though. Some of them, Some of them. I saw some clips. Who the.

[Matt Serra]

Was it David Lee Roth?

[Joe Rogan]

No, I think it was the guy

[Jamie Varner]

from AC dc, Brian Johnson.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't know if it's that great.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah, it's bad.

[Joe Rogan]

It's pretty good.

[Jamie Varner]

ACDC favorite, one of my favorite all time bands. And Brian Johnson struggling, I mean but that screaming style he has, wow, it's hard to keep that.

[Matt Serra]

How do you keep that going? Like no acting or vocal coach would ever tell you you could sing like that. I don't think so. You just can't like that. You can't scream like that.

[Joe Rogan]

I wonder if they get like 60 year old groupies.

[Matt Serra]

100%, 100%.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh my God.

[Matt Serra]

They've been keeping that flame lit since the 80s of course.

[Joe Rogan]

But do they have like new groupies though?

[Matt Serra]

Of course, of course. You know there's no way. They know, like, doesn't. What's. What the.

[Joe Rogan]

What is.

[Matt Serra]

What is his name? Jesus Christ.

[Joe Rogan]

Rolling Stones.

[Matt Serra]

I forget what.

[Joe Rogan]

Mick Jagger.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, well, I know Mick Jagger has a kid that's really young, like m. Mick Jagger just had a kid, like really recently.

[Joe Rogan]

Really? Yeah, he's like in his 80s.

[Matt Serra]

I was thinking of someone else, though. Someone else is another. Oh, there's a bunch of guys like that, like Al Pacino, just.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, yeah, that's true. True.

[Matt Serra]

But a lot of older guys like that, they wind up having kids. Like they're still obviously getting young chicks to them.

[Joe Rogan]

It's kind of irresponsible though.

[Jamie Varner]

I mean, I mean, but maybe.

[Matt Serra]

I mean, he's probably.

[Jamie Varner]

You hope he's gonna take care of the kid. But maybe it's chick that wants the kids.

[Matt Serra]

But it's still. If you did it on purpose. If you're the guy and you did it on purpose, that's wild.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

I don't even want to be around. Yeah. I'm just gonna have this kid at 80. It's more important than my jeans. Pass on that I be there for my child.

[Joe Rogan]

Think about that. By the time you're 85, you're probably gone.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

By the time you're 85. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You won't even see your kid go to school.

[Matt Serra]

You'll be five years old and the kid, you know, the kid will be 5 years old and the dad dies.

[Joe Rogan]

Maybe the. Maybe the wife wanted it. Well, sure, you leave something behind type of thing.

[Matt Serra]

Maybe it's better than not doing it. Maybe. Yeah, but also, if you're a rational 80 year old, like, bro, you barely have time to take care of yourself. You can't even keep your own in your pants. You're gonna raise a kid. You're gonna take the kid to the

[Jamie Varner]

parking, the kids, diapers, and yours, bro,

[Matt Serra]

you're gonna break a hip and your toddler is gonna be screaming and no one will hear it.

[Jamie Varner]

Right.

[Matt Serra]

And you're gonna be alone with them at the park. You're gonna be lying there bleeding internally from a broken hip and the kid's gonna walk off.

[Joe Rogan]

Five years old. Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Three year old wander off and you're 80. That's nuts.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, yeah, by the way, Longo, you got him upset because he's like, man, I've been feeling good. He's like, you know, I'm at the gym every day and I go, I turn on Rogan and he's. He's bitching about being 58. I'm like, what the he's 68. Oh, so basically like, he's like, yo, yo, yo. He's complaining about being 58.

[Jamie Varner]

Ray's really 68.

[Joe Rogan]

He looks great.

[Jamie Varner]

He looks real.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, he's got dark ass hair, right?

[Joe Rogan]

I know, right?

[Jamie Varner]

He don't have a wrinkle.

[Matt Serra]

Ronald Reagan here, he's looking.

[Joe Rogan]

He's looking good.

[Jamie Varner]

That's great.

[Joe Rogan]

And then he asked me about a. What the.

[Matt Serra]

Ronald Reagan had dark hair, like deep into like the 70s. Come on. My is all white. If I grew my. If I had hair and I grew it out, it'd be all great.

[Joe Rogan]

Really?

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, mostly it's like my face, like my, like my stubble. It's like at least 60. Gray.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, mine is all gray now.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, yeah. It's weird. There's something about a gray beard that's like. You're just saying it.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, that's why, that's why, that's why I just started trimming it down. I was like, yo, this is ridiculous.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, I don't like the way it looks.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

But I see myself in the mirror with a gray beard. I'm like, who the are you?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah. You're supposed to have a dark beard for sure.

[Matt Serra]

I had a dark beard most of my life.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm looking at pictures of him like, like a couple years ago and it's dark now. It's all gray. Like, what the happened? They had a thing on A and E with me and George and they had. They showed a clip of me and you talking. I still. We both had hair. Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

It looked crazy.

[Matt Serra]

It's weird. You look. You're just slowly slipping into the grave.

[Joe Rogan]

We're looking good though.

[Matt Serra]

Compared to a lot.

[Jamie Varner]

Holding it down as long as we can.

[Matt Serra]

Yes, compared to. That don't take care of themselves. And also compared to people from the past. Oh, that's what I'm saying. You know, red light therapy.

[Joe Rogan]

Think about like in the 80s, what 40 year olds look like in the 80s, right? Yeah, they was.

[Jamie Varner]

And I think the like, martial arts also helps. Like we just had a. An event, Henzo's 30th anniversary for his academy in the US and they invited all the OGs. So we, you know, we were. I seen guys I hadn't seen in

[Joe Rogan]

decades got a fifth degree, but.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, I got a sixth degree. Look at that. That's amazing.

[Jamie Varner]

And I mean, we were talking like almost everybody looked good.

[Joe Rogan]

Everybody, Everybody.

[Jamie Varner]

And there was 60 guys there.

[Matt Serra]

It's the thing is you, you gotta maintain. And if you don't maintain, you're never getting it back. Yeah, you don't, you don't get. You can't. Like at 50, you can't take three years off. Like, right. It's just too hard to get back. And if you never worked out before and you're like 46 and you're starting now, tough. That's a hard road, man. You never worked out before. Like, first of all, go slow.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Matt Serra]

You gotta break everything.

[Jamie Varner]

Well, that's the problem. People want to jump right in and then you get hurt or get busted up a little bit and then you just defeats. You know what I mean? You're like this.

[Matt Serra]

Which is the biggest shape.

[Jamie Varner]

Not get it.

[Matt Serra]

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[Jamie Varner]

I mean, it's, it's the truth.

[Matt Serra]

That's the truth, man, that's the number one thing that happens as you get older.

[Joe Rogan]

If you're lifers like us, you just got to be smart about your training.

[Matt Serra]

100.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, you know, I got young savages. I don't want. I don't. I. I. I choose who I want to roll with. Like, you know, sure, sure. You don't got to be that guy to just slay everybody on the mat because you're the sensei. You're gonna break. You're.

[Matt Serra]

You'll break. You know, it's like you. You have a Corvette, you take it around the track, you can only do so many laps every car. Even Formula One cars that cost $100 million, whatever they got, they break. You can only go so far, so fast, so long before you blow a rod, you got some shit goes sideways. Everybody I know has had surgery. Yeah, Everybody.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, for me, like, when I'm in Philly with the crew, Brady and Piper and them, like, it's hard being in a room with these guys because they want to grab you and do moves on you. And I'm like, chill out, man. Let's grab one of the younger guys, bro.

[Matt Serra]

The last guy you want grabbing you is Brady.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Jesus Christ.

[Joe Rogan]

He gets on top of you, just starts squeezing you.

[Matt Serra]

Will.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

His. That fight with Joaquin Buckley, I was like, holy. Yeah.

[Jamie Varner]

He ragged out.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, bro.

[Matt Serra]

It was whole.

[Joe Rogan]

It was the.

[Matt Serra]

The level of domination was, like, shocking. I was like, okay, so this is his best form. Like, this is him at his best. At his best is terrible. He's a little inconsistent. Like, he's. The Morales fight was tough, but when. And he said it's like his head wasn't in it, but when his head is in it and he's, like, dialed

[Joe Rogan]

in for sure, man. He's like. When he grabs you, bro, like, he'll squeeze you, and you just start making, like, a little noise.

[Matt Serra]

Like, he did a Leon and what he did to Joaquin, you're like, holy, man. What is that?

[Joe Rogan]

Like, that was beautiful.

[Matt Serra]

Beautiful.

[Jamie Varner]

As explosive an athlete as the flocking

[Matt Serra]

is, like, everywhere they went, he was just following them one step ahead. It was like, no escape.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

He don't want you out there. Smush.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

He just gets mush back is so big. He just gets so much coverage over you when he's on top of you.

[Matt Serra]

And the balance, it's just every. It's just, like, so many steps ahead of them on the ground.

[Joe Rogan]

The.

[Matt Serra]

The one time, it really looked like a cardio drill, like, he was on top. Like, he Was just. It would look like he was just getting, like, placid face.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Super calm.

[Joe Rogan]

I believe where they were. He wasn't allowed to do the 12 to 6 elbows.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, that's so crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

That's where I. Right or wrong. Something like that.

[Matt Serra]

I think jerseys do like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a lot of places that are like that, man. It's so dumb.

[Jamie Varner]

That are still using the old unified rules.

[Matt Serra]

It's so dumb. Like that. That rule doesn't make any sense. It would be nice if it's, you know, soccer kicks. Okay. You want to have a debate, but if you can elbow this way and this way and this way, but you can't go this way, that's just retarded.

[Joe Rogan]

And everybody else is doing it, so why would you not do it?

[Matt Serra]

It doesn't make sense. And you have to remember what state you're in. So, like, when you're in the fight and you're on instinct and the guy's like this, but it's wide open for a 12, 6 elbow. You're supposed to throw it. That's what it's for.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Jamie Varner]

There for safety's sake and the fighters and the referee's ability to make a decision, have consistency in the rule set.

[Matt Serra]

It's just another elbow. It doesn't make any sense. Like this one elbow, that's outlawed. That's crazy, right?

[Joe Rogan]

I don't know why you can knee

[Jamie Varner]

the hell out of somebody in their face.

[Joe Rogan]

You can run and jump in the face.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, God. And some of the craziest knockouts we've ever seen come from that. Like, we were just talking about Masvidal versus Askren the other day.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, man. Hey, he's supposed to be wrestling again.

[Jamie Varner]

Is that.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't real. Is that a good idea?

[Matt Serra]

No, it can't.

[Joe Rogan]

I saw him talking the other day.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah, that waked me up. When I heard that when he was

[Joe Rogan]

talking, he was coughing a lot. And I'm like, you listen, when you're people who are athletes, they're afraid of wrestling because it's exhausting. They don't want to feel that. That burn in their lungs. You really want to push yourself like that? I worry about it.

[Jamie Varner]

I just don't want them to get totally with you.

[Matt Serra]

I mean, he had double lung transplant surgery. Like, how long ago?

[Joe Rogan]

I was like, a year ago. A year ago. Maybe two years ago. Maybe two years ago.

[Jamie Varner]

I'd be worried about infection.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

I'd be worried about everything. And I would also be worried if you're Doing that, I think you have to take immunosuppressant drugs in order to keep someone else's organs inside of you.

[Jamie Varner]

So you're going to go out into a giant crowd.

[Matt Serra]

So my friend, C. T. Fletcher, you know, CT Fletcher, CT. Had a heart transplant, and he has to take medication to keep this heart in his body, keep his body from rejecting it. And he has a bunch of complications from their medication, like, makes him swell, and he posts videos and pictures about it, like it's a serious thing. And he had to be real careful during COVID Like you have a heart transplant and then you're on immunosuppressant drugs, and then all of a sudden. Or a bad flu, like, anything bad will fucking kill you because your immune system is working in a weird way because it's trying to keep someone else's heart inside of you. Yeah. Your body's like, who's this heart?

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Matt Serra]

Your body's like, this is a disease, which is wild. That your body knows.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Like it recognizes. And we're just like, no, we can. We can hack nature, shove it in there and give you some drugs that make your body stay alive.

[Joe Rogan]

I think it was Bilal Muhammad.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Maybe he has like an agreement, like,

[Jamie Varner]

hey, listen, didn't they used to train together? Right?

[Joe Rogan]

They did used to train together.

[Jamie Varner]

So they're friends. Maybe that's the deal.

[Matt Serra]

Dude, we were just reading about this last night. Two people have had pig hearts transplanted in their bodies.

[Joe Rogan]

No way. Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

One guy stayed alive, I think, for 60 days, and one guy stayed alive for 40 days.

[Joe Rogan]

Did they gain a lot of weight? Did they become fatties?

[Matt Serra]

They start shoveling their face in the trash.

[Jamie Varner]

So.

[Joe Rogan]

So wait, they have. You telling me, whose idea was it to put a pig heart in another human being?

[Matt Serra]

There's a bunch of doctors because apparently pigs hearts for some reason are similar in function to a human heart.

[Joe Rogan]

Say that about a sheep's vagina. They do. I'm a farmer, but that's what I heard.

[Matt Serra]

That's what I heard, too.

[Joe Rogan]

So a pig's heart.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And if that's. That's fucking crazy.

[Matt Serra]

It's crazy. And so they did it on two people. Yeah. But either way, the whole thing of transplanting organs from other people is like, super risky and dangerous. And once it's working, the. The number of, like, we looked at heart transplants, I don't know what it is for lung double lung transplants, but it look, you look at mortality over a period of years, and so it's like 91% of the people survive the first year, and then it starts. And then it starts going down. So 9% of the people die after the heart transplant, but then it starts to go down after. You know, that's for the first year. When it gets to five years, then you're in the 80s or the 90s, and then the 80s, and it keeps dipping. It keeps dipping until, like, at 10 years, it's like, half of them are dead.

[Joe Rogan]

Jesus.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, so you're buying some time.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Matt Serra]

But, you know, it's a heart, though.

[Joe Rogan]

What about others?

[Matt Serra]

It's a good question. Like, so what is it like for double lung transplant? I don't know, but I would imagine it's fragile.

[Joe Rogan]

You want to put that in the fucking red. You want to push that where you're breathing heavy. It felt like yesterday he was making laps around the hospital floor, right?

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And that's a dude.

[Matt Serra]

Well, he's a winner, right? And that's the problem. Like, sometimes when you're a winner, your. Your will is so strong that you think you could force your body into unrealistic expectations.

[Jamie Varner]

There's got to be some agreement or something.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Jamie Varner]

Like, I just in my mind, too.

[Matt Serra]

Bilal, he cheated.

[Jamie Varner]

He. I mean, basically, you cheated death.

[Matt Serra]

Yes.

[Jamie Varner]

Your family. Now you have your family back. You understand? You have a second chance. Like, why would you put that at risk? To do something, maybe him, and you have nothing to prove it.

[Matt Serra]

Have, like, a friendly.

[Jamie Varner]

That's kind of what I. Wrestling role.

[Matt Serra]

That's kind of a friendly wrestling. I don't think that, though. He's an animal. Yeah. Askren's a. I don't think that they

[Joe Rogan]

have an agreement with each other. I think that somebody told Bilal, hey, listen, man, don't push this dude.

[Jamie Varner]

Well, he said, like, I saw an interview where he said, like, his first question was, what are you talking about? Can he wrestle?

[Joe Rogan]

You know what I mean?

[Jamie Varner]

Has he even been cleared?

[Matt Serra]

So I would not accept that if I was Palau. I feel like it's not the pros. And this is no disrespect to Askren. It's like, I think that guy's an animal. Like, I was one of the biggest promoters of trying to get Askren into the UFC when he was the champion of Bellator and the Art. And then when he went over to one and the argument was like, he was boring. And I was like, no, he's not boring. It's crazy that he could do this to these guys. Yeah, he could take guys like Douglas Lima and just Ragdoll to the ground. And they can't do shit to him for scoff. Remember he did.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Matt Serra]

He wasn't.

[Joe Rogan]

He wasn't boring at all. He was destroying guys. Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Darling. These guys, they had zero chance in him not taking them down. It was zero chance. And it was beautiful, right. It wasn't like Alex Pereira flying knee and somebody in the face, but it's still another way to win a man and a child. Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

It was crazy good. He was crazy good. And then we got him like a little late, right? We got him when he already had hip problems and he eventually had to get a hip replacement after he got out of the UFC. You know, he had already been 15 years in combat sports and then all the years of wrestling and like. But those days when he was running shit at Bellator, he was a motherfucker, dude. He was a motherfucker. Fight night is here. Title shots, debut killers, and the rising contender nobody's talking about yet. And only DraftKings has you covered every step of the way. The DraftKings app is now available in all 50 states and includes all markets, bringing the game straight to your fingertips wherever you are. No matter where you're watching, you're always connected and in the game. With One app, new DraftKings customers sign up with code ROGAN. Spend five bucks to get 200 in rewards within 21 days. That's code ROGAN in partnership with DraftKings. The crown is yours. Bet with DK Sportsbook. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER 1-800-MYRESET Connecticut Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org on behalf of Boothill Casino in Kansas. Bet tax pass through. May apply in Illinois, 21 and over.

[Jamie Varner]

Void in Canada.

[Matt Serra]

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[Joe Rogan]

His fight with Damian Maia was fucking awesome.

[Matt Serra]

Amazing.

[Joe Rogan]

That's a great note. What's the beautiful thing about that fight is they're both. It's almost like the closest thing to style versus style that we could have nowadays.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, they're both so brilliant at the way they use their art with him with his wrestling and him with his jiu jitsu. And in that fight, you got. You got to see some of that with. With Ben, you got to see the takedowns. You got to see an uma platter reversal and leg lock ashi reversal. I mean, beautiful jiu jitsu.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

It was just such a. It was such a great fight, dude.

[Matt Serra]

Damian Maia got harder than anybody ever got by a referee's decision.

[Joe Rogan]

Kamaru. Yep.

[Matt Serra]

Ever. Right? Nobody got harder than Damian Maia.

[Joe Rogan]

Was it her? Who was it?

[Matt Serra]

I don't know. And maybe we shouldn't even pull her name up.

[Joe Rogan]

I can't do my boys like that, man. I gotta see them.

[Matt Serra]

I want to think. I don't remember the. I don't remember who it was, but I think it was a guy who doesn't do it in the UFC anymore. But he had him on his back. One hook in, over, under. He had gotten to a position where, like, you are fucked. You're dry, and you got the best back specialist in the ufc. Damian Maia was. The way he ran through Neil Magda, you're like, holy shit, man. His jiu jitsu is so high level. And for you to get off, get him off. And Kamaru's one loss, right, was to make a choke.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Alex's brother.

[Matt Serra]

So it's like, how many years ago was that, like. And now you're fighting Damian Mai and he's got your back. You're in danger.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Like, you're in danger. And the referee separated him.

[Jamie Varner]

So crazy.

[Matt Serra]

Never got to that spot again. Kamaru played it nice. He fought a great fight, won the fight. And you're like, damn, Damien had him. He had him in a, like, not nine out of ten, but he had him in, like, a six out of ten spot for him.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Like, half the time he gets your back and you're dry and you're not at his level of jiu jitsu, you're in fucking trouble.

[Joe Rogan]

You should never. You could. You should never separate anybody from that position. I know you're a big proponent of not standing people up, but especially positions that it requires time to get to 100%.

[Matt Serra]

100%. The idea that a guy can defend it for a few seconds in the crowd boos, and that's enough for you to make him neutral again.

[Joe Rogan]

You. I know.

[Matt Serra]

It's so hard to get to Kamaru.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah. And the tightness is what keeps that position. Right. Any space he makes, and Kamaru's gone.

[Matt Serra]

Name the amount of times in the history of Kamaru's entire. All the years of competition where people got him in disadvantageous grappling positions.

[Jamie Varner]

Right.

[Matt Serra]

I can't think of there's very few, very few. Leon.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Chimaev. But even Chimaev, he was winning the third round.

[Jamie Varner]

Oh, well, he, Damian Maia almost won that fight.

[Matt Serra]

It came leg dazzle fight where he

[Jamie Varner]

won the last hand.

[Matt Serra]

Here he is. Here he is. This is crazy.

[Jamie Varner]

Oh, do I need heads up?

[Joe Rogan]

Who is that? Does it matter?

[Matt Serra]

All right, so back it up again so you can see how good the position was.

[Joe Rogan]

A little further hook.

[Matt Serra]

Can you get it a little further back? Yeah, here. So I. I want to see, like, when he starts entangling. This is so bad for Kamaru. You have to understand how bad this is.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, this is bad.

[Matt Serra]

This is a. This is not just simply, he's like, behind you.

[Jamie Varner]

And Maya had that. The progression. Like, it was.

[Joe Rogan]

He was just about to beat that wizard, bro.

[Matt Serra]

Look how good this looks, too. Maya is just a gorilla.

[Jamie Varner]

His wrestling was underestimated too.

[Matt Serra]

Like, he was so it was technical in everything. And this use of leverage and his positioning was always perfect. It just was so beautiful to watch. When you see a guy just super high level jiu jitsu in the ufc, just like, oh, my God, this is beautiful to watch.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I love how methodical he's working his way, his way into this dangerous man. Look at that. Oh, my God.

[Matt Serra]

He was gonna step in there.

[Jamie Varner]

Look at this.

[Joe Rogan]

That arm is the only thing. And he's just about to beat that arm. And not only that, from here, he could just start beating him with the right hand, which he'll probably start doing.

[Matt Serra]

So if the referee really stands him up from this position, like, this is. This is a crazy way to separate people. This is bad, man. This is like, for Kamaru, this is super dangerous.

[Joe Rogan]

Still got half the round left.

[Matt Serra]

Hanging on to that wizard for dear life is the only thing from keeping him from getting this guy on your neck. And that wizard is like at 40% power now because look how far back. Yeah, not much into that. Yeah, there's not much. It's hard. It's hard to generate power like that with Kamaru. I mean, he's got full double underhooks.

[Joe Rogan]

How do they break this up?

[Matt Serra]

How do you break this up? This is crazy to break up. Like, this is such a dangerous position.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, this is bad. I don't recognize the ref.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, I can't remember. I recognize. I'm not going to say his name. There's no need to. But this is a giant mistake.

[Joe Rogan]

You're clear, Herb.

[Jamie Varner]

Sometimes.

[Joe Rogan]

Herb know it's all right.

[Matt Serra]

Sometimes in fights, man, these guys listen to the crowd.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's kind of hard not to. Right? And they feel responsible.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, they do. And then the organization, I'm sure they feel pressure because the organization wants, like, fast action fights, but there's certain situations where you. You gotta just accept the fact that sometimes this sport is not the most exciting for moments because it's so exciting in other spots. Oh, that's crazy. Right there, right after he. Crazy. Crazy. That's crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, man.

[Matt Serra]

That's the worst over that anybody's ever gotten in the ufc. I mean, I think that's the worst.

[Joe Rogan]

There is the time that Bustamante had to get two Finland.

[Matt Serra]

That's right.

[Joe Rogan]

That's a pretty big.

[Jamie Varner]

That's who Maya reminds me of. His striking wasn't as good as Murillo's, but the combination of wrestling and. And his Jiu Jitsu, like, once he got a hold of you, he was probably going to put you.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, Marilla was so good.

[Joe Rogan]

He's still coming around. He's got a fighter in the UFC now.

[Jamie Varner]

Nice.

[Matt Serra]

Does he. That's awesome.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

I saw him when I first started Jiu Jitsu at Carlson Gracie's place.

[Joe Rogan]

Did you?

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. The very first year that I started Jiu Jitsu, it was like him. Vitor was there, Sergio Cohen, Mario Esperi was crazy.

[Jamie Varner]

They had a ridiculous room back then,

[Matt Serra]

lucked out and wound up watching these guys train when, like, Vitor was about to make his UFC debut, I was just starting out, I was like, this

[Joe Rogan]

is amazing, seeing all them guys in there.

[Matt Serra]

Dude, they were all in there, man. You could just come in off the street and see the best Jiu Jitsu guys in the world training.

[Joe Rogan]

That's crazy.

[Matt Serra]

It was crazy. And it was all. They were. They were all fighting in. There was the other guy. What's his name? Carlos. That's right, Carlos. He was there, too. There was a bunch of those Carlson Gracie team guys that we just got lucky this was the place. Yeah, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Random is.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Built like a he man figure.

[Jamie Varner]

Carlson had some savages, man. He really had a great team.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. Yeah. It was the Oreo back then.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh. That's how I got my black belt from Laborio. Yeah.

[Jamie Varner]

Hell, yeah. That's another guy to be proud of. He is a good guy.

[Matt Serra]

Such a nice guy. Yeah. It's like. It's kind of amazing when you realize that before 1993, Jiu Jitsu had no schools. Right.

[Jamie Varner]

And now.

[Matt Serra]

And now they're everywhere. Every corner.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

That is like ground control. Insane. Like the Gracie family, like the world

[Joe Rogan]

owes them yeah, no doubt about it.

[Matt Serra]

Owes them the world.

[Joe Rogan]

The whole world. The world is not impacted. Like, think about the world. The world. The whole world. Yeah, everybody.

[Matt Serra]

Because I think liking MMA has impacted culture. And then people training, much more people training in Jiu jitsu has impacted culture.

[Jamie Varner]

Hell, yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Where the would we be?

[Jamie Varner]

Like, the UFC's here because of the Gracies as well. I mean, obviously, the fertigas in Dana. But.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, but his idea started the whole thing. He wanted to have a crocodile mode around.

[Jamie Varner]

It's amazing.

[Joe Rogan]

I remember hearing about it in 1992 with Hori on and Hoist. The seminar I went to, and they were talking about that. They were talking about the different ideas, what they were gonna do, and I. Even though I didn't think they were full of shit, I thought it was never gonna happen. I'm like, what is this, bloodsport? It sounded ridiculous, but now everybody's so used to it, it sounds ridiculous that it sounds ridiculous.

[Matt Serra]

Like, you know, when I first found out about it, I didn't watch it until it was UFC 2, because I will only watch it on videotape. Like, someone from the gym told me about it, and I went and watched it. I got the videotape, Like, Hollywood video brought it home, and I was like, oh, my God, they did it.

[Joe Rogan]

They did.

[Matt Serra]

That's what I thought.

[Joe Rogan]

So did you, like. Oh, Dave pulled this off.

[Jamie Varner]

I saw.

[Matt Serra]

No, no. They did the thing that we always wanted.

[Jamie Varner]

Oh.

[Matt Serra]

So when I was.

[Jamie Varner]

When I first started.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, yeah. I first started taking karate, and I thought karate was good until I stumbled into this really good Taekwondo school, and I was like, oh, taekwondo's. And. And then I started boxing. I'm like, oh, my God, I can't box. And then I started kickboxing. Like, oh, my God, you kick my legs. I didn't know you can kick my legs. This is terrible. And then I started doing jiu jitsu. Oh, my God, I'm helpless. So it's like, all these steps along the way, I was like, it would have been nice if we knew what style was real. And this is what Bruce Lee tried and.

[Joe Rogan]

Right, bro.

[Matt Serra]

When I was starting out in, like, 88, doing taekwondo, nobody knew nothing. Nobody knew what worked. Everybody just like, so that guy beats people in that thing, and that guy be. I wonder what happened if they fought.

[Jamie Varner]

No one knew wrestling was worthless. Grappling arts were worthless.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

But luckily, I. I learned it was not worthless in high school when I got my ass kicked.

[Joe Rogan]

Me, too, man. Practicing on the wooden dummy to change my ass. That's all I know. And every time I get a real scrap, I'd go back to my season of 8th grade wrestling.

[Matt Serra]

That's the case. But I also think that wing chun would work if you knew all the other. Like Anderson Silva can use wing chun, right. You know a lot of hand trapping.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

There's hand trapping and elbows from him. This stuff that does work. If you know all the other. It's an added element, right. It's like there's mo. There's moves that you could do that you're just. Your opponent's not gonna. Your opponent is used to this, right? They're used to punches, like regular punches every now and then.

[Joe Rogan]

Weird.

[Matt Serra]

Can work because they don't see it coming. And then it opens up other big shots and wing chun can. Those guys, when you watch the really good ones, like whack at each other's arms and shit, you're like, okay, there's like a little value in this.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

There's a little value in getting good at this. As long as you know how to actually punch.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. I don't dismiss nothing because anything can work in the right context.

[Matt Serra]

It's just not gonna work on Terence Crawford.

[Joe Rogan]

Not in a boxing match against Terence Crawford.

[Jamie Varner]

I don't know what. What is working against him anyway.

[Joe Rogan]

No one has figured that out. You know, no one has figured that out.

[Matt Serra]

Not much.

[Joe Rogan]

Listen, you could have fun with it, but as far as value, I'd say very little value.

[Matt Serra]

Very little. Because it's only valuable.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. If you're going to do that, you might as well be doing Muay Thai Western boxing or jiu jitsu.

[Matt Serra]

No, no, I for sure, by itself, useless. But what I think is if you already are doing other stuff and you could train with a guy who can show you some of it, I think you would be like, oh, I see value in this. Like, do you remember when Dan Henderson was fighting Hector Lombard and he hit him with like a back elbow, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was like. Or a back forearm. It was an elbow or four. It was an elbow.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

I think he like throw a punch in camera sometimes. You ever see people do standing back fists? Sometimes. And they work. There's some that we're missing.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

And like, I think wing chun is a part of it.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I agree with that. Like, especially like when you're in close, like in clinching positions, you're just like trapping hands inside. Bam. Bam.

[Matt Serra]

You know what I think is the number one thing that people need should be doing the number one thing that people should be Doing is point fighting Karate. It's, you know, you want to add something. I mean, not obviously not number one over wrestling and all that, but number one thing to add in. And don't add wing chunk Fighting Karate.

[Joe Rogan]

But it's. But it's such a physical thing that a lot of people probably can't do. Especially if you come from a wrestling background where you're so used to being, like, heavy and square.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

To be able to turn sideways in

[Matt Serra]

and out, jump in and out, like. But if you can do it, that advantage is so. When you watch, like MVP when he's in his prime.

[Joe Rogan]

So funny when you hear the sh. Bullet. The.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, but the thing about. Yeah. Back elbow. Crazy. What a beautiful elbow from a wrestling position.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Let me see that again. How did he land it? So. Yeah, he had his leg. Look at that. He's holding his leg and he catches. Look at the elbow. Oh, right by the son. Fantastic. What a. That's one of the greatest elbows of all time. Underappreciated elbow right there. To get a knockout elbow while you're hopping on one leg.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. That's crazy.

[Matt Serra]

Fighting off the takedown.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, that was nasty. Nasty wasn't Wing Chung.

[Matt Serra]

But what I was getting to is these guys, like, mvp. That advantage is so huge. The advantage of being Wonderboy in his prime. Yeah, bro, that advantage is so nuts.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, so I. I watch videos of people doing it online. I'm like, if you could do that right, no one will catch you.

[Matt Serra]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

It's. You'll be in and out.

[Matt Serra]

Closest to it. Zero. Gone.

[Joe Rogan]

It's true.

[Matt Serra]

Zero Gun is not a point Fighting karate guy. He's a Muay Thai. Buddy's a basketball player.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

And we were talking about this the other day, like, what better sport to develop plyometrics and the ability to change direction than basketball? You're constantly changing direction. And they're big men.

[Joe Rogan]

Then why can't basketball players fight? They're the worst fighters on the plane.

[Matt Serra]

They don't train.

[Joe Rogan]

That's true.

[Matt Serra]

Just because they don't train.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

But Cyril gone. You look at the way he moves like. He moves like a basketball player can move. But he's £250 and he's a heavyweight and he can strike.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. I remember I used to train Walt Harris, who was a pretty good basketball player. And I used to always try to tell him, man, it's the same thing. Your pivots are the same. You got to be able to move, change directions. It's the same thing. But as a Heavyweight. It also comes with being lazy. Yes, those guys are just lazy.

[Matt Serra]

Well, it's harder to do.

[Jamie Varner]

Hey you Dean.

[Matt Serra]

It's harder to move all that weight.

[Jamie Varner]

Weight, right.

[Matt Serra]

It's like it's hard to get a 248 pound guy to move like Cyril gone. There's not a whole lot of them. We were just talking about it the other day. I think it's an underappreciated thing because we're used to lighter weight fighters moving like that. But like I'm like name one, name one guy at heavyweight who moves like that, you know, who used to, you know, used to was the dark horse of the heavyweight division. Travis Brown. When Travis Brown was in his prime, he was a bad dude and he moved light. He was a big tall dude and he moved light.

[Jamie Varner]

And Arlovski used to, he just had

[Matt Serra]

some, he had some, you know, wars. Yeah, they take their toll on you. But if you go back to like Travis Brown in his heyday when he was knocking people out with those elbows from the clinch and the way he would move like, he would move like super light on his feet, like bouncing around and I think it was because he played basketball. It's got to be it 100. It makes sense because I know Travis played basketball.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

You know he said when you get a big athlete that's light on their feet. That's a giant advantage.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it is.

[Matt Serra]

Because he only needs one entrance that you didn't anticipate when you get popped and just now you're compromised and getting

[Joe Rogan]

that first step and being able to get a clean shot.

[Matt Serra]

Dude, those karate point. I've only fought a couple of karate point fights. When I was a kid when I was doing taekwondo tournaments, we'd enter into them and I, I fought this one guy that was like, his name was Mafia Holloway. He was like a champion. I couldn't even touch him. I couldn't even get close to him.

[Joe Rogan]

His first name was Mafia.

[Matt Serra]

Mafia Holloway. It was a very famous, I don't know if it was his real name but that's what his name was back in the mafia. He was like a well known black belt point fighting champion. I couldn't even touch him. I was like, Jesus, we're playing totally different games. I'm playing a continuous fighting game which, where you, you're, you know, you fight in Taekwondo for a certain amount of minutes and he's playing this thing where you stop every time they hit you and so you can't hit him and he keeps hitting you.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

And it's Just stop, stop, stop, stop.

[Joe Rogan]

Frustrating.

[Matt Serra]

But I remember leaving, going, oh, I need to learn that. Like, that's crazy. I didn't know you could move that quick and just jump out of there. The way he's doing it, I'm like. And you think about, like, these guys that fight him. Like Kevin Holland, that fight mvp.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

After a while, they're like, what the fuck?

[Jamie Varner]

Is this for real? He was in his corner saying that. Like, how do. I came in?

[Joe Rogan]

He's quicker than I thought.

[Matt Serra]

What am I doing here? This is nuts. You just can't do anything to him. And he's styling on you.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. That's why when I trained Tyrone to fight Steven Thompson, wonder boy, we did. So I was. I knew the mistake that everybody was making. They were using just regular tall kickboxers. I went to karate schools, and we got just karate kids that did that.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

For him to spar with. And I was like. I was like, don't worry about takedowns. We don't even need to get there. Just be able to deal with this movement and his length and being able to deal with that, because it's different. What is this?

[Matt Serra]

Oh, yeah, it's got a crazy kick here.

[Joe Rogan]

Right?

[Matt Serra]

Dude was very good. There is. He was very good. He didn't get me with that. He got with a couple of sidekicks to the body, though, tell you that. I was very impressed. I was impressed by the speed in which he was able to, like, move forward and back, because that darting in and just tagging each other speed is a totally different speed than, like, continuous fighting speed, because continuous fighting speed, you would assume that if the guy's hitting you that you're going to counter and you're going to exchange. And what these guys are used to is you never exchange. They just pop you. They pop you, and they get the fuck out of there.

[Joe Rogan]

And that's. That's an asset in mma.

[Matt Serra]

Giant asset, because you can just knock somebody out. Giant asset. It's a giant asset. Also, if, like, if you try to play their game, you should just try to play their game just to realize how hard it is. And you're like, oh, this is a crazy. This is a different thing. This is all about the blitz. It's all about the entry.

[Jamie Varner]

They switch stances at will, too. At will.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, at will. You know, But I think all the good guys do now. I think that's going to be a prerequisite. There's too many calf kickers out there. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You got to be able to switch.

[Matt Serra]

Do you Guys, watch one. You watch kickboxing in one. Did you see Jonathan Haggerty and Yuki Yoza?

[Jamie Varner]

It wasn't good for Hagerty, was it?

[Matt Serra]

No, he won. He figured them out. Haggerty was.

[Jamie Varner]

He's the guy that beat that dude that was wrecking everybody.

[Matt Serra]

Well, he's just a full on Muay Thai guy, but he beat him by continuous movement and switching stances.

[Jamie Varner]

Oh, right. I think I sent the video.

[Matt Serra]

I did see that really technical fight.

[Joe Rogan]

Sure.

[Matt Serra]

Like, if you really like striking, it's a really technical fight. He did an amazing job of just constantly giving him different looks and switching stances and moving and then catching him in exchanges. And dude, it was beautiful because Yoza crushes everybody's legs. It was really sweet.

[Jamie Varner]

He just kept switching stances, just kept switching stances.

[Matt Serra]

And he did a lot of great boxing from the outside, too. Yeah, it was just. But he never gave him the same. Look over. See that?

[Joe Rogan]

Look at that.

[Matt Serra]

And then knees to the body. A lot of knees to the body. It was beautiful. Brilliant fight. I was just chatting with them on Instagram. I'm gonna try to get him on.

[Jamie Varner]

Nice.

[Matt Serra]

Bring them to America. Like, it's. This is what Zufa should be promoting. You know, I mean, I know they love boxing. That's awesome. I'm glad they're doing that. But, you know, this is it. Yeah. If you want another thing that's really exciting, it's striking. Just have only Muay Thai.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm just surprised they haven't done that.

[Jamie Varner]

It doesn't make any sense because that's what everybody likes to watch.

[Joe Rogan]

Everybody likes to do.

[Matt Serra]

Dana said to me, I don't know if he changed his opinion, but he said to me that people don't like kickboxing because they think of like pka Kar from ESPN from like the 1980s. I'm like, that's old. People don't even know what that is. Young people love martial arts. Like, young people love knockouts. Young people boo when fights go to the ground.

[Jamie Varner]

They do.

[Matt Serra]

MMA is the best. No doubt about it. It's the greatest sport of all time. It's the champion of sports. However, if you're going to have some value in another combat sport, it's Muay Thai. It's the most exciting. You could do the most options. You can knee, they could throw each other. They do all kinds of wild kicking.

[Jamie Varner]

You think Rico Verhoeven's boxing success will bring some eyes to kickboxing at all?

[Matt Serra]

I'm having him on too. I hope so. I hope so.

[Jamie Varner]

That was a great. He'd really phenomenal. I mean dude, for 10 rounds he

[Matt Serra]

really, he was into the point where if you, if you're good judges, if the judges are real, he. Usyk needs a knockout twin.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah, a thousand percent.

[Matt Serra]

Which is.

[Jamie Varner]

He was crazy. I thought he was up by 8, like 8 to 1 or 2.

[Matt Serra]

At the time I thought the same. A lot of people thought the same. I mean he was, he was bullying

[Jamie Varner]

him around use his weight well, did he cardio himself? And it was phenomenal because he put my, my style against Usyk and it was Jim Carrey and that. What's the one where you know, he

[Joe Rogan]

comes boxing at the guys.

[Matt Serra]

It almost looked like it too.

[Jamie Varner]

It was fucking phenomenal. But. But man, he really did amazing. I personally think if they rematch that now, Usyk will like kind of figure them out. So maybe it'll happen. He'll get him faster. Look, I hope not because I was rooting for Rico rematch.

[Matt Serra]

Rico was going to know that he can do that. Like before that fight he didn't know he could do that and Usyk didn't know he could do that. And the difference is Usyk is not a real heavyweight. He's the greatest heavyweight of all time, which is crazy. But he's not a real heavyweight. You can't say the like. Tyson, in my opinion is always going to be my favorite. In his prime. Yeah, he was just so insane. It was so insane to watch him just demolish the whole division. But then you look at Cassius Clay and then when he was Muhammad Ali and Larry Holmes doesn't get his due and Lennox Lewis was a beast. So maybe, you know, who knows who would have fought. But that guy stylistically is like the greatest heavyweight ever. Like watching him move the way like skill for skill. You're watching an artist. Yeah, it's like the way, the way he put it on Dublock.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Oh my God, he's incredible. But he's still a really. A 220 pound guy. Yeah, you know, like he puts on some extra weight, he gets a little. He was a little thicker for that fight. But you know, Rico's huge. Rico's a giant. He's a giant guy from the Netherlands.

[Jamie Varner]

Right?

[Matt Serra]

That's a.

[Joe Rogan]

Is that where he's from?

[Matt Serra]

That's a real heavyweight.

[Jamie Varner]

Dutch. Another Dutch kickboxer. They're all giants. They're all tough. 6. What's he like? 6, 5, 2, 7.

[Matt Serra]

He's huge.

[Jamie Varner]

260.

[Matt Serra]

He's got crazy cardio too for a

[Jamie Varner]

big Giant, he was bouncing on. I mean, he was. For 10 rounds, he kept that pace as a heavyweight, keeping that pace. And then once he slowed, you know, that's when Usyk was able to find him.

[Matt Serra]

Did you watch it, Matt?

[Joe Rogan]

I can't watch. I have a hard time watching anything but fucking mixed martial arts. I. I love Jiu Jitsu and Star Wars. I love Jiu Jitsu. I. Yeah, well, you know Star Wars. I saw the new he man movie, by the way.

[Matt Serra]

How was it?

[Joe Rogan]

It was fucking good.

[Jamie Varner]

Really?

[Joe Rogan]

The masses of the universe was good. I was worried because I'm thinking Elder new reboots and this and that. I go, is it gonna be too woke? Is it gonna be this? It was fucking fun. It had a Thor Ragnarok type feel where it's just kind of fun and a little goofy, but not to the point where it's. Just takes you out of it, you know? It is. I grew up with that he man. Yeah, that was my. That was my. I was a kid.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah, I remember.

[Joe Rogan]

Around our age, right?

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah, right.

[Joe Rogan]

So it did justice to that. Like, you know, it made it fun. It was.

[Matt Serra]

Skeletor was awesome. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Jared Leto play. Yeah.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

I heard there was, like, some sort of crazy, like, he wasn't allowed to do interviews. He was allowed to talk to the rest of the cast.

[Joe Rogan]

Why?

[Matt Serra]

Because they're worried he's gonna do nutty. Like, he. When in the Joker, he was, like, sending people dead rats in the mail and stuff. Oh, really? Yeah, like, because he was. He was in character.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

You know, that's why. So they're like, yeah, you're gonna be an evil Skeletor guy. No, no, we can't let you be in character. Can't contact the rest of the crew. I don't know if that's true. That's what I heard. But it was fun. See if that's true.

[Joe Rogan]

No, I heard that too. I heard Will Smith said something about that.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah, I thought somebody said, I know. Somebody said, I know. He definitely did that with the Joker rat or something. Yeah, he was the Joker.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jamie Varner]

Said, I know you're playing the Joker, but come on with the rest.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah, you would. Chill out.

[Matt Serra]

There's some dudes that played the Joker, and you're like, all right, it's over. Hey, I heard when Heath Ledger played the Joker, like, everybody stop. Yeah, that's the Joker.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

You can't come back after that until Joaquin Joaquim Phoenix.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah, he. Well, he's a great.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, they came, saw that.

[Matt Serra]

I Was like, okay, now that's the Joker.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Yeah. Then you. Then you saw the sequel and you said that bring back.

[Matt Serra]

I didn't see the sequel. Tim Dylan told me it was the worst movie that's ever been made.

[Joe Rogan]

Everybody said that. That it. Like, I didn't see it neither. I didn't make anything.

[Jamie Varner]

I didn't watch it.

[Matt Serra]

If I was guessing, he probably didn't want to do it.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't know what they were thinking.

[Matt Serra]

I bet it was like a dispute between, like, the movie company and the dude directed it. Why would you do that?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Unless you're trying to mock it. Yeah. Or you're trying to diffuse it. Maybe the government was like, hey, after you released that movie, we had the BLM riots and everybody's lighting LA on fire. Hey, maybe don't have a movie where you're encouraging people to, like, light cities on fire. Maybe make a musical.

[Jamie Varner]

So crazy.

[Matt Serra]

Trying to diffuse the Joker movement with a musical.

[Joe Rogan]

It's funny how the first. If I never seen a. I mean, sequels aren't normally as good as the original, but. Holy. I never seen something so bad I didn't make it through it. I saw some of it, and then I'm like. Once I started singing, I'm like, I'm out of this.

[Matt Serra]

It's very rare where. Where a sequel. You're like, damn, that's just as good.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, Terminator 2, Empire Strikes Back. Those are a couple.

[Matt Serra]

Those are a couple.

[Jamie Varner]

Rocky, too. You didn't like Rocky too. Obviously.

[Joe Rogan]

Why did he take it to the zoo in the beginning? Why? I never could get over that.

[Matt Serra]

Stare at the giraffe.

[Joe Rogan]

The whole. The whole joke was that beat that mean bodyguard saying, take it to the zoo. The retards like this. And then he takes her to the zoo to propose the war. Is that not crazy?

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah, that is, bro.

[Matt Serra]

That's how people were in the 70s. There were animals.

[Joe Rogan]

But he's basically saying that right before the Internet movie reviews on your channel. Are you trying to plug my channel?

[Jamie Varner]

No.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, Because, like, you know what I'm watching on there? I do. I do. Series reactions or movies Reactions. Are you watching the New House of Dragon?

[Matt Serra]

No, I haven't saw it yet. There's too many things to watch.

[Joe Rogan]

Let me tell you something.

[Matt Serra]

I'm fucked. I'm in the middle of. From.

[Joe Rogan]

I want to talk to you about that, too.

[Jamie Varner]

My wife's made it from.

[Joe Rogan]

You know what?

[Matt Serra]

Don't tell me why you might be ahead of me. Season four, Episode five. I think. I think.

[Jamie Varner]

How many seasons Is it five?

[Matt Serra]

There's only four.

[Jamie Varner]

Four.

[Matt Serra]

And then the fifth one is the final season. It doesn't come out until 2027, so don't tell me.

[Jamie Varner]

All right, all right.

[Joe Rogan]

Hey, House of Dragon. Now, look, I love Game of Thrones. The of the Seven Kingdoms was phenomenal. And House of Dragons, out of all them, is the one I like the least. Cuz it's a lot of just gloom and doom. It's a. You. All the characters are pricks. They're all a bunch of wacky tug.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. There's no one to like.

[Joe Rogan]

Exactly.

[Matt Serra]

No one's noble.

[Joe Rogan]

But this one, this third season is. I watch. Yeah, I do the reactions on my channel. Thanks.

[Matt Serra]

What is the channel?

[Joe Rogan]

The max channel on YouTube.

[Matt Serra]

Look at this. He's contemplating. It's like he's contemplating House of the Dragons.

[Joe Rogan]

No, no. Know what this is? Do you ever see Mystery Science Theater? Mystery Science Theater, yeah.

[Jamie Varner]

Well, they show the back of their head.

[Matt Serra]

You're the former UFC welterweight champion of the world and you're sitting there with the headphones on.

[Jamie Varner]

Great.

[Matt Serra]

This is what I think about House of Dragons. Yeah, he didn't have to do that.

[Jamie Varner]

That's 200 milligrams of edibles right there.

[Joe Rogan]

It's 55 milligrams. You know what scene?

[Matt Serra]

You know what scene I really love? When they were trying to find Targary, the Targaryens had a bunch of master children.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Trying to see who's a Targaryen. So they put people out with the dragons.

[Joe Rogan]

The prior seasons had some good scenes like that.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

But this season I just watched three of them so far.

[Matt Serra]

I'll get in.

[Joe Rogan]

Each one of them is. It's all. It's nothing but fighting now. It's nothing about. But going at it.

[Matt Serra]

Let's go.

[Joe Rogan]

And it's good. Yeah.

[Jamie Varner]

All right.

[Joe Rogan]

Good. I'm in.

[Matt Serra]

I watched. I watched the whole season of the whole. All the episodes of Game of Thrones

[Joe Rogan]

recently that you went back and started back.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, yeah. We watched it for like four or five months. Watching every one of them. When you watch it, like every couple nights a week, like two, three nights a week when you're watching it, it's like you. You just, like. You follow. You don't have to wait, like years in between seasons.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

It's incredible.

[Joe Rogan]

Better that way.

[Matt Serra]

It's the greatest epic adventure show in the history of the world. I tell people that all the time.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm like, you gotta watch it.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, good, dude.

[Joe Rogan]

For sure.

[Matt Serra]

I forgot how good it was. And even though it's 10 years old. Special effects are perfect.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah, for sure. He's. I'm gonna say something I never said in my life. There's a new book I'm reading.

[Jamie Varner]

What?

[Joe Rogan]

Hey, guys, hold on. Wait a minute.

[Matt Serra]

Wait a minute.

[Jamie Varner]

Audible.

[Matt Serra]

Is it a graphic novel?

[Joe Rogan]

Son of a. No, it's not. It is and. All right, I gotta be honest. I'm listening to the audiobook. Okay. I hate when people say they're reading a book when they really listen to the audiobook.

[Matt Serra]

Donnell Rollins gave me so much about that. How you read when you just listen. I'm just trying to abbreviate it. Yes, I listened to an audiobook. Sorry, I didn't sit down and read it.

[Joe Rogan]

Rising. Red Rising. Have you ever heard of this? No. Well, you're going to document this episode, because sooner or later, someone's going to pick it up and it's going to become either an Amazon series or a movie. My. One of my black belts, Jedi, Joey Beans, told me about this age.

[Matt Serra]

What a great name.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah,

[Matt Serra]

Is a fucking great name.

[Joe Rogan]

He's great, but he likes all the shit I'm into. So he told me about this.

[Matt Serra]

I'm gonna write it down. What is it called again?

[Joe Rogan]

Red Rising. All right, that's it. And I'll tell you, I don't know how many books there are, but I'm listening to the first one, and I'm like, more than halfway through, and it's.

[Matt Serra]

What's it about?

[Jamie Varner]

Set in future on Mars. Whoa.

[Joe Rogan]

Red rising is a 2014 science fiction novel. First of all, you guys are a bunch of. This is why I got.

[Matt Serra]

Telling us he's reading.

[Jamie Varner]

My short friend

[Matt Serra]

telling us he's reading. A dystopian comes out, somebody else read it.

[Joe Rogan]

Bunch of pricks. Listen to me. This is a great book.

[Jamie Varner]

Book.

[Joe Rogan]

This is a great book. And I like getting into something new. Well, how long is the book?

[Matt Serra]

That's regular coffee. There's a cop if you want coffee. Coffee.

[Joe Rogan]

You know what?

[Matt Serra]

That would be unless you want a little baby. I was trying to figure out what you're gonna do with that.

[Joe Rogan]

I didn't know what I was doing.

[Matt Serra]

I'm down for that. I'm down for that. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

The Red Rising. Man, that was really good. Pass me. That's coffee, man. It's like Game of Thrones in space.

[Matt Serra]

I'm in.

[Jamie Varner]

Oh, you know what? I started watching because you guys, that Battlestar Galactica.

[Matt Serra]

Great.

[Jamie Varner]

I'm like.

[Matt Serra]

I'm.

[Jamie Varner]

I'm only on the first season. There's like 20 episodes a season. I'm like. I'm like 10 in right now.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, that was a Sci Fi Channel, bro. That show was so underrated. So underrated. Like, to this day, if you go back and watch Battlestar Galactica the entire series, it's incredible.

[Joe Rogan]

Very good.

[Matt Serra]

The new one, not the old one. Yeah, that's right.

[Joe Rogan]

Here's what I'm gonna recommend. You could watch with your wife or by yourself, whatever you want to do.

[Matt Serra]

Porn.

[Joe Rogan]

What's that?

[Matt Serra]

That's by yourself.

[Joe Rogan]

Widow's Bay.

[Matt Serra]

Widow's Bay. What is that?

[Joe Rogan]

Apple TV comes out with some bangers.

[Matt Serra]

Bangers.

[Joe Rogan]

S. Silo is another great one, but Widows Bay, it's. It's very rare. It's about an island that's kind of cursed, and a May is trying to get it to become like the next Martha's Vineyard or whatever that is. And, you know, this is it.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, that guy. That guy was in the Beast Within.

[Joe Rogan]

This is great, bro.

[Matt Serra]

That guy's in another great fucking series that also might be Apple.

[Joe Rogan]

It's.

[Matt Serra]

It might be.

[Joe Rogan]

It's very rare that. Something I don't like. Like, my family's a bunch of ghouls, except for my oldest. They like all the horror shit. I'm not into it, but it's very rare. I like spooky shit. So it's like, spooky, but it's fucking funny. The character, it's. It's got like a quirky type humor to it. And I. I was dying. I was.

[Matt Serra]

The Beast in Me is another one. It was. What, was it on Netflix? It's on Netflix. It's still on Netflix. It's a series and it's about an author and this psychotic guy that is a rich guy who lives in her neighborhood. I don't want to tell you any more than that.

[Joe Rogan]

It's a movie.

[Matt Serra]

It's okay.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I saw that.

[Matt Serra]

Claire Danes and that guy Matthew. You watched that show?

[Joe Rogan]

I didn't watch it. I didn't watch it. Is it good? Good?

[Jamie Varner]

It's.

[Matt Serra]

But Claire Danes can act her ass off this summer. Soccer is here and the watch parties will be going back to back to back. But don't worry, UberEats has your game day essentials covered. All the snacks and groceries to keep your crowd happy delivered straight to your door like chips, dips, wings, guac, and fresh ingredients for the perfect game day spread. Order in so you can stay locked in on the game. All the hosting, none of the hassle. Order in so you can lock in for the games. Only on UberEats. For a limited time. Terms apply. See app for details. You never know if she was lying to you, right? You have no idea. There's no way you're gonna tell the lip Quiver, bro. She could lie her ass off. She's. She's fantastic on that. It's got 98 on rotten tomatoes. That's how good it is. It's a great show.

[Joe Rogan]

The beast in me.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. There's too much to watch.

[Joe Rogan]

There's so much. I just started the pit, so I'm like. And I'm. And I'm late on that.

[Matt Serra]

So what's the pit about?

[Joe Rogan]

The. The ER Room in Pittsburgh. Yeah. She plays a doctor in the ER room. It's really good, though.

[Matt Serra]

Okay.

[Joe Rogan]

There's some I'm into for a while, then I just fall off.

[Matt Serra]

I never heard of it. Just too many shows.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah, right.

[Joe Rogan]

I did that with Land Man. After a while, I'm just like, new

[Matt Serra]

season of Landman's good.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't give a. About the slutty wife. And the daughter's annoying.

[Jamie Varner]

She plays the stripper wife.

[Joe Rogan]

After a while, it's just like, all right. I go. They get to some interesting. With, like, the cartels after them, and then they're, oh, let's take the old seniors out to the strip joint. It's like, here we go. Oh, the wife's being outrageous again. I don't got my add. I can't take it.

[Matt Serra]

That's fun now.

[Joe Rogan]

That was my problem with it, too. I thought that the. The women were like caricatures of women. Yeah. Come on, man.

[Matt Serra]

It was too much.

[Jamie Varner]

Who's cheering their daughter on basically to be a hoe?

[Joe Rogan]

I have a question, though. If you guys all seen it, why does the. Why do they live together like the. The. The other lawyer? Why do they all live with Billy Bob Thornton?

[Matt Serra]

That's a plot point.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah. There's no other reason why.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. Because there's only one house on the ranch or something. I don't know. Because I'm just like, they all have to live in the one house.

[Jamie Varner]

It's his office and his home, basically.

[Matt Serra]

Like, it makes it fun. But isn't he making a lot of money?

[Joe Rogan]

Shouldn't all of them be making a lot of money?

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah, you would think his lawyer be making big bank, you know?

[Matt Serra]

Well, now he's got to be making money because now he's running the company. Spoiler alert.

[Jamie Varner]

Right? Right.

[Matt Serra]

So he's making more money.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. He's making sure they're eating their vegetables.

[Jamie Varner]

Gets mad about it. Any.

[Matt Serra]

Anything I love Billy Bob though. Billy Bob on that show is so good.

[Joe Rogan]

He makes the show.

[Matt Serra]

He is the. Taylor said that he wouldn't even made the show if it wasn't for Billy.

[Joe Rogan]

Really?

[Matt Serra]

He went to Billy with the idea goes. I'm not going to make this if you're not going to be.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, he made the show. I thought Andy Garcia was good in it too.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, Andy Gar.

[Joe Rogan]

He's great.

[Matt Serra]

He's great in everything.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

You ever see things to do in Denver when you're dead?

[Jamie Varner]

Hell yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Longo loves that. Lemon.

[Jamie Varner]

Dude, that's a. I like it.

[Joe Rogan]

That movie. I never made it through. Longo loves that movie.

[Jamie Varner]

I'm with you.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm with you, Ray.

[Jamie Varner]

I'm with you.

[Joe Rogan]

Lemon loves it.

[Matt Serra]

I, I don't. Honestly, I haven't seen it in decades, but when I saw it I loved it. But the problem is sometimes you go back and you try to watch one of them and you're like, oh man,

[Joe Rogan]

what was I thinking?

[Jamie Varner]

Wrong with me.

[Matt Serra]

This movie sucks. A fat one. There's a bunch of movies like that. You try to watch them, they're terrible.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Sometimes he's just better. Better off remembering how good they used to be.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, the impact. You were just a. A more naive person for the Internet.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, true. I watched one of the worst movies that was so good that it was bad. It was Rowdy. Right? Rowdy. Rowdy, right? Rowdy.

[Matt Serra]

Rowdy. Rowdy Piper.

[Joe Rogan]

Rowdy.

[Matt Serra]

Rowdy Roddy Piper.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes, he was. We saw him last night too. Joey.

[Jamie Varner]

Joey. That's right.

[Joe Rogan]

Hell comes the frogs down now. It's a, it's a. It's a combination of say like Mad Max, like a post apocalyptic thing and Escape from New York where in the future Rowdy Roddy is the only guy who's not sterile. Everybody else is sterile.

[Jamie Varner]

So Sam sure about is chasing him for it.

[Joe Rogan]

So they have to like. It starts off when he's in like a general's. He's in like a. A room because he got caught with the general's daughter and fucking. They put a, they put a, a jock strap on him with explosives and he has to

[Matt Serra]

do a frog.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah. So he has. His mission is to go to this Frogstown and there's a harem there and he's got to impregnate everybody or else they're gonna fucking blow him up.

[Jamie Varner]

Sounds like a horrible job.

[Joe Rogan]

It is crazy, this movie.

[Matt Serra]

What a silly movie.

[Joe Rogan]

I know. Oh my God.

[Jamie Varner]

You can't unsee it.

[Matt Serra]

Frog Town. This is amazing.

[Jamie Varner]

He cut out halfway through. Things to do in Denver when you're dead. He's in for Frog Town.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, but I agree with this. You know, what you're getting into. It's not a bunch of people pretending to be cool. You know, it's like, this is just silly.

[Joe Rogan]

So how did you even find this and then sit down and watch the whole thing? This is the thing. Well, you know, it's well documented about my ass problems. So sometimes I spend a lot of time on the throne and I got my iPad, so I go to Prime Video. And it's almost like when I was little, like, I used to go through the channels and I'm like, up all night. I'd find something wacky. So I look for weird or different movies, and that's one of them. And I just. It just brought me right in. I watched that whole. In two shits. I watched that whole fucking movie.

[Matt Serra]

What was the one?

[Jamie Varner]

When he was an alien.

[Matt Serra]

Crazy amount of time to shit called they or whatever.

[Joe Rogan]

It's crazy to. For two hours, you're saying?

[Matt Serra]

A little.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, not for two hours. Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

The budget for this movie was double what that movie obsession was that just came out. That's almost.

[Jamie Varner]

My wife said that movie was great.

[Matt Serra]

So the budget was 1.5 million back then? Yeah, in 1988. Wow. So was this a small release?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it has to be.

[Matt Serra]

Who made this movie? What was the company that made New World? That's a big company. Company. Maybe they sold it to New World. I don't know how that works.

[Jamie Varner]

Was this before or after they Live

[Joe Rogan]

well, they Live was good.

[Matt Serra]

They Live.

[Jamie Varner]

That's what I'm saying. Maybe they've got us.

[Matt Serra]

They literally bankrolled it. But I bet if you tried to walk. Return to Frog Town was released on 93. He was direct to VHS, bro. Before even DVD. Like, no, this straight.

[Joe Rogan]

Put it on now, listen, everybody. Don't go watching this and cursing me. I mean, we got to know what you're getting into. Exactly what it looks like.

[Matt Serra]

TV guy only gave it 2 out of 5 stars. How dare they?

[Jamie Varner]

DVD talk said 3, but I'll tell you, he's.

[Joe Rogan]

He's. He's hysterical in it, though. He's.

[Matt Serra]

For some reason. I bet if we watch they Live right now, we wouldn't like it. I bet we'd be like, oh, no,

[Jamie Varner]

it's still pretty funny if you watch.

[Matt Serra]

Is it good? When's the last time you saw it?

[Jamie Varner]

I mean, it's one of them movies when you're flipping around if it's on because him and who's the. What's the. The his guy's name. Remember they had basically a wrestling match in the alley. They were the black guy.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Matt Serra]

This, this movies from like the 80s.

[Jamie Varner]

There it is.

[Matt Serra]

There's movies from the 80s and the 90s that become comedies. Yeah, like this used to be a comedy, but this is kind of a comedy. This is like a little tongue in cheek. But then there's stuff like Roadhouse. Right, right, right. Roadhouse is a comedy now.

[Joe Rogan]

Right, for sure.

[Matt Serra]

Roadhouse is such a bad movie.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Matt Serra]

It's so bad. I mean it's so insanely. Guy's bad, the writing is bad.

[Joe Rogan]

Everything is bad.

[Matt Serra]

Everything's bad. Except for Patrick Swy's hair. That's amazing.

[Joe Rogan]

It was appropriate at the time. 80s. Everything was easy.

[Matt Serra]

We were dumb. People were dumb back then, you know, that's what I think. I think we were dumb Vice, you know, no Internet. People were stupid. It's true, right?

[Joe Rogan]

We were only. We were only exposed to what we were exposed to in your area.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, we thought that's solid movie. You should see Roadhouse.

[Jamie Varner]

I'll tell you what, that good guy,

[Matt Serra]

you're going to root for him.

[Joe Rogan]

Him? Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

He's complicated, but he's tough, he's quiet. He likes poetry. People up and he says, pain don't hurt. The karate scenes are so bad. Like everything is so. It's so fake. It's so dumb looking. But it's still awesome.

[Jamie Varner]

They brought Sam Elliott in. His backup had an 80 year old

[Matt Serra]

backup, but dude clearly could barely walk. Ko and guys left and right. Crap.

[Jamie Varner]

That's it. That's it, mijo.

[Matt Serra]

He's awesome in everything though. Sam Elliot saw everything. Every time you see Sam Elliott in a movie like. Yes.

[Joe Rogan]

I think the bad guys didn't. He's tell Patrick what's his name that he was gonna. That he used to. Guys like him in prison.

[Matt Serra]

Yes, yes.

[Joe Rogan]

Sam La. That's the one who played Landman's father, right?

[Matt Serra]

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's awesome.

[Joe Rogan]

He's always good.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah, he's great.

[Matt Serra]

Always and everything.

[Jamie Varner]

He's real life Marlboro man.

[Matt Serra]

Exactly. Yeah. He's great in everything thing.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

That movie was so bad. But the thing is, back then it wasn't.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, Everything in the 80s was bad.

[Matt Serra]

TV shows were insane. You watch them, you're like, what were they doing? Yeah, trying to brainwash America. Roger Ebert's review is that this is right on the edge of a good bad movie and merely the bad. It's not a good movie. Well, he's right. It's not a good movie. But viewed in the right frame of mind, it's not a boring one either. Ah, that's the thing. Gene Siskel was less complimentary, calling it outrageous in terms of its cartoon like plotting and dialogue and lamenting Swayze's mindless posturing. A young star has sold himself to become a pin up boy. Someone sounds a little jelly.

[Jamie Varner]

Come on.

[Matt Serra]

Someone sounds a little jelly. That sounds a little jelly to me. Acting. It's called the.

[Jamie Varner]

It's called.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, I made a movie and thought it was going to be better than it was.

[Jamie Varner]

Right.

[Matt Serra]

Okay, let's move on.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.

[Jamie Varner]

It's a cult classic to this day. People still talking about it, bro.

[Matt Serra]

Basically every actor that's ever lived has been in a couple lemons.

[Joe Rogan]

Of course, that's part of the process.

[Matt Serra]

Except maybe Daniel did Lewis.

[Joe Rogan]

He's probably a little bit more maybe that's like one.

[Matt Serra]

A lot of people didn't watch that Lincoln one. That might be the only one I didn't like. I don't know anybody who was like, raves about the Lincoln movie, right?

[Joe Rogan]

What about the Vampire Hunter? Abraham Lincoln.

[Matt Serra]

Those are crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

Who was in that? Did anybody see that? I never seen.

[Matt Serra]

I never saw that.

[Joe Rogan]

Up.

[Jamie Varner]

That was Daniel, right?

[Matt Serra]

Abraham Lincoln. Vampire Hunter is crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

That should have been made in the 80s. That should have been.

[Matt Serra]

It should have been.

[Joe Rogan]

Should have been made in the 80s.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. It's like a comic book. That sounds like a Marvel comic.

[Joe Rogan]

I haven't seen it. I didn't see something I would watch.

[Matt Serra]

Sounds like something was pretty fun.

[Joe Rogan]

It's funny.

[Matt Serra]

Was it good?

[Jamie Varner]

The vampire? Yeah, it was Vampire Hunter. It was. To me, it was like a comedy thing.

[Matt Serra]

I might have seen it and forgotten about it. Yeah, I don't even remember if I saw it.

[Jamie Varner]

I mean, you get high enough when you watch the movies. They're cool, but you don't really remember details all the time. So.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, you know what I'm looking forward to that new werewolf movie. Edger's guy, the same guy that did Nosferato, he's doing a werewol. They just released a trailer.

[Joe Rogan]

Did they?

[Jamie Varner]

What's it called?

[Joe Rogan]

Werewolf.

[Jamie Varner]

Were.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, werewolf. I saw that.

[Matt Serra]

It's spelled weird, but it's basically a werewolf.

[Joe Rogan]

Where's it take place?

[Matt Serra]

I don't know, some foreign country. You can hear them speaking some strange language, you know, it's like, give me some volume.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, man. Oh, I want to see that.

[Jamie Varner]

That looks pretty wild.

[Matt Serra]

Robert Eggers is a. Oh, Christmas.

[Joe Rogan]

How was the vampire? How was the vampire one?

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, it was awesome.

[Joe Rogan]

You think? I like it. Yeah, it just. I don't know. It's good.

[Matt Serra]

Dude.

[Joe Rogan]

It is.

[Matt Serra]

I think it's the best vampire movie of all time.

[Joe Rogan]

Interview with a Vampire.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Nosferatu. Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

I think Nosferat is the best vampire movie of all time. That's my opinion. I think it's the best. It's like, I've seen a bunch of them. Gary Oldman one was amazing. That was a great. That dragon. That was. Yeah, that's still great. But, man, there's something about Eggers. Nosferato. It's like. It's more terrifying than all of them. You like? It's just something. It's more hypnotic. Like he's got powers over people. Like, it's weird the way he influences people. It's like. It's creepy.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Like, the way that looks shot. Like, I can. I see what you're saying. No, I didn't.

[Matt Serra]

Show me a scene where they're. When he's making him sign the contract, there's a scene when the dude has to go to his house and he doesn't know. Spoiler alert. Like, what contract he's signing. Because he's signing it in the language that he doesn't know. To sell a house lost to this prince that lives in Romania. He goes to visit this guy. It's the creepiest scene ever. And this is the first scene where you, like, see him and you. You slowly gets revealed, like, what he is.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

The best vampire movie of all time. You'll love it.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm gonna.

[Matt Serra]

It's so well done,

[Joe Rogan]

My lord. The language of my forefathers, of course. Maiden's token. I see your bride just so hid. Yes. He wants to look at the bride.

[Matt Serra]

Well, he wants this guy's wife. This is this whole contract. This is what this whole thing is about. Of him going to this guy's town and buying a house there from him. Like, this. Really just wants this guy's wife. He's, like, eternally connected to her. Oh, it's creepy as. Dude.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, I gotta watch this. Oh. Oh, yeah, it's good. I gotta watch this.

[Matt Serra]

Best vampire movie is it.

[Joe Rogan]

I gotta watch this ever.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Some people disagree, and that's fine. My opinion.

[Joe Rogan]

You ever see Lost Boys?

[Matt Serra]

That was good.

[Joe Rogan]

That was fun, though.

[Matt Serra]

I bet if you watched it today, you'd be like, what? Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You'd be like, yo, this is corny. As John Rollo with long hair. I still believe. Sacrophone I was. Is that you, Raul? With this

[Matt Serra]

boy? There's a Broadway show fortnite now Lost Boys. The Broadway show.

[Jamie Varner]

Oh my God, dude.

[Joe Rogan]

First of all, boo. Broadway. I saw Spider Man. I saw Spider Man. I saw Rocky. Two things I love. It's like going to see a Spider man movie with the worst special effects ever. Also, there's a guy swinging and everybody's like, oh. I go, dude, what the. Really? Show me the one with Macy Barber in it. Not Macy Barber. Marcy Barber. Who's the.

[Matt Serra]

Macy Barber's a fighter.

[Joe Rogan]

Who's the black girl that used to sing? Macy gray. Macy gray.

[Matt Serra]

100 milligrams.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. A Rocky play.

[Joe Rogan]

It was horrendous.

[Matt Serra]

Do they box? Do they pull a ring out and everything?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it's awful. Wow. It's. It's like.

[Jamie Varner]

Does the guy try to imitate is

[Joe Rogan]

but just what you're picturing on.

[Matt Serra]

On Broadway or something?

[Joe Rogan]

No, I've never seen anything I liked on that. This.

[Matt Serra]

This is it.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, boo.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, theater people. You're so silly.

[Joe Rogan]

Dude. I. I can't stand. And the guy sucks. He can't box.

[Matt Serra]

The beloved Oscar winning story.

[Joe Rogan]

Dude, I just.

[Jamie Varner]

I mean, I assume Stallone did this.

[Matt Serra]

I don't know.

[Jamie Varner]

And I mean, he's got to own it.

[Matt Serra]

It's like it's a cover story.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm not into plays. I saw Dog Day Afternoon with John Bernthal on Broadway. Oh, really?

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. How was that?

[Joe Rogan]

It wasn't bad though. Like, he was. He was. He was really good in it.

[Matt Serra]

He's really.

[Joe Rogan]

He's really good. You probably like that. Did you.

[Matt Serra]

Did you ever get into the Punisher?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Oh, did you see the.

[Jamie Varner]

Yep.

[Joe Rogan]

One Last Kill.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah, I watched it.

[Joe Rogan]

That was good. It's a one off.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah, it's like an hour long. People think it's a movie. It's not a. It's not. It's like a movie. It's like.

[Joe Rogan]

That was good.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah, I like it.

[Joe Rogan]

It. That was really good Season. Him and the Daredevil was good.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah, he was good.

[Joe Rogan]

He was real good. Season was okay. Second season wasn't good, but that special was good. If you have to watch one thing, it's like 45 minutes to an hour. I did a watch along on the Matt Sarah channel, but I did.

[Matt Serra]

But that guy's awesome and everything.

[Joe Rogan]

John Berntho.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. Walking Dead. He was amazing.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah, he was.

[Matt Serra]

Played such a good creepy friend.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

When it came back to life, you like. That was crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

I met him a few times in real life. He's, you know, he. He can scrap a little bit.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, he's a very nice guy. Like he was on the podcast. Enjoyed talking to him. Very smart.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Interesting dude. Went to school in Russia.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, that's. I mean, that's a weird place to go learn acting. Yeah. And just so you know, on the. While we're on the topic, the Punish is going to be in Spider Man. Brand new dad Day that's coming out.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Is that movie.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, the new Spider man movie. Those.

[Matt Serra]

They just keep swapping out Spider Man.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. But this, this Tom Holland, Spider Man's

[Jamie Varner]

back in it again.

[Joe Rogan]

He's yet to do a bad Spider Man.

[Jamie Varner]

He's good.

[Matt Serra]

There's no job security in being Spider Man.

[Joe Rogan]

No. Hell no.

[Matt Serra]

They got another dude waiting in the

[Joe Rogan]

wings or there is job security. They just brought Toby Maguire back after 20 years.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. It's not a bad gig, the multiverse thing. But the thing is about Spider man is he's supposed to be like a college kid.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Jamie Varner]

Unfortunately, this guy looks like a little kid.

[Joe Rogan]

Tom Holland.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Is the origin story as he starts out as like a coach.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

He's a high school.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. And then his Uncle Ben gets killed and he doesn't save, he doesn't stop the guy.

[Joe Rogan]

You know what else was fun was the Spider Man. The wall.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, I was pulling that up.

[Jamie Varner]

Oh, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Just Jamie, me and you are right here, buddy.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, that's Nicholas Cage.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah, I thought it was pretty good.

[Matt Serra]

That looks dope.

[Joe Rogan]

I thought it was good.

[Jamie Varner]

And you can watch it in color or black and white. They give you the option.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Nicholas Cage is a fan. Fascinating dude.

[Joe Rogan]

But.

[Matt Serra]

But he has been around forever.

[Joe Rogan]

He's the good Nicolas Cage in this.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah. Well, I think after. After that Pascal movie he did, what's his name was in the title. It's like, I don't know, being Nicholas Cage.

[Matt Serra]

Right, right.

[Jamie Varner]

That movie brought him back. It was like Pulp Fiction for Travolta. Like, kicked him back off again.

[Joe Rogan]

What is that movie?

[Jamie Varner]

It was a great. Where the pat Pedro Pascal's like a drug dealer who's a big fan of Nicholas Cage's.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh.

[Jamie Varner]

And he winds up like hiring him to come to his house to do something. And then he gets Cages hemmed up in the cartel business.

[Matt Serra]

The unbearable weight of massive talent. That's what it's called.

[Joe Rogan]

Is that it?

[Jamie Varner]

Is that the name? Yeah, yeah, there it is. See? Being Nick fucking Cage. So that's great.

[Matt Serra]

B plus.

[Joe Rogan]

That's not bad.

[Jamie Varner]

It was good.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

I'll probably check that out.

[Matt Serra]

I watched part of it. I never got through the whole thing. No, it's just business crazy. But it looks hilarious.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah, it's pretty.

[Matt Serra]

Premise is hilarious. You know, you're like an actor and you get these gigs, like, because people do things like that. They'll, like, show up at people's houses and parties. Like, someone wants to pay you a million dollars to go to Dubai, and you're like, okay, so they fly to Dubai, then they have dinner with people and hang out with them and meet them, and people just cut them a check.

[Joe Rogan]

Damn.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Where can I get that?

[Matt Serra]

I know, it's weird. Yeah, it's. There's. There's. You know, so like Nicholas Cage, like, that probably would happen where the cartel guy was like, that guy, guy.

[Joe Rogan]

He's my favorite.

[Matt Serra]

Like, remember when, I mean, Sean Penn met El Chapo? Right, right. He's hanging. Hanging with El Chapo and did an article for Rolling Stone magazine where he talked about meeting El Chapo in Mexico.

[Joe Rogan]

No.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You don't remember?

[Joe Rogan]

No.

[Matt Serra]

Do you remember when Connor was wearing the El Chapo shirt? I do try to do the pictures just like El Chapo did. Those were the pictures that he did with Sean Penn.

[Joe Rogan]

No.

[Matt Serra]

Yes. That's the shirt hurt. That's what Connor.

[Joe Rogan]

What?

[Matt Serra]

Connor's doing that. That's what he's mocking. That's hilarious.

[Joe Rogan]

Mind speaking of Connor, how well does he do next week?

[Matt Serra]

Boy, we're gonna find out. We're really gonna find out what's going on. If it gets into the second and third rounds, that's when we're really gonna fight.

[Jamie Varner]

We'll know.

[Matt Serra]

We'll know immediately at that point. But, I mean, whether or not he can really fight for five rounds, like, against it.

[Joe Rogan]

He can.

[Matt Serra]

Man with a great gas tank.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah. After five years of. Of tearing your body up, you don't know.

[Matt Serra]

Right. Because it's all in a vacuum. Like, there's some training footage of him beating guys up that you've seen, but who knows what he actually has been doing? We know he's been partying, but has he also been, like, really training? Because if he's been really training and it shocks everybody because he's still got his skills.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

I mean, my God, if he. If he somehow or another sparks out max in, like, the first round, do you know how big he becomes? Oh, he's right back, right back, right back. I mean, he's right back. Him and Justin Gaethje, the biggest fight in the history of the known universe, they go for the BMF title at 170. Connor's like, I don't want to cut any weight. That fight would be crazy.

[Jamie Varner]

My only concern is, is his size. Like, Max struggled with bigger dudes, like Dustin the first time. Then Max came back bigger, which we know because when he went back down, he struggled, you know, with Orlovsky. You know, I mean, he went five rounds with Justin. So, like, I'm just waiting to see does. Is Connor able to put that weight on him and have a problem?

[Joe Rogan]

Is he a bigger dude, though? They both fought at the same weight class.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah, they did start at 45.

[Matt Serra]

When Max was fighting at 145, when he was a champ and he was walking around like 176. Yeah, he's a big.

[Joe Rogan]

He's a bigger guy.

[Jamie Varner]

I mean, I love Max. Like, God, it's hard for me to believe.

[Matt Serra]

I follow Max on YouTube. He's got a great channel. So recording all of his training and all stuff he's doing and, you know, you see him, he looks good. Dude, he looks big.

[Joe Rogan]

Dustin Poirier thinks Max might be bigger.

[Jamie Varner]

Really?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. I mean, he's taller. He says he's kind of thin, but he's got a bigger frame. He thinks he's gonna be bigger.

[Jamie Varner]

Like, I mean, he came to my gym a couple times and he's like my height.

[Matt Serra]

I think he made a big mistake going back to 45 after he did.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah, I agree.

[Matt Serra]

I think it's too hard. I think it's just too hard on the body. And especially when he got. He beat, who's a thick 55. When he fought Justin, he looked good, man. Yeah, he looked solid at that weight. I think him fighting at that weight, he could actually fight. I think going down to 45, I think he's. I think he was fighting. It looked to me like he was in. Like he was compromised. Like, I think the weight cut was just.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah, it was too much. Do you think the Justin fight and Max is different if he doesn't get caught with that kick early in the face one. You know what I'm saying? Like, I would like to see that fight without Justin been compromised.

[Matt Serra]

Right. But I mean, that's what the beautiful

[Jamie Varner]

thing about that game.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. That was the intention. Right.

[Matt Serra]

Could have been a chaos.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Matt Serra]

It shattered the bones of his nose.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. So that for sure. I mean, but then, you know, you think, you see the way Max looked at 145 when he fought Ilya, but then you got also Factoring also, he's fighting Ilya and Ilya is so good. Like, you look bad. Like, there's a lot of guys who don't look. He lands combinations on people and a lot of guys look bad. Doesn't mean they're bad.

[Jamie Varner]

I'd like to see Max and Justin again if Max pulls it off.

[Matt Serra]

But then again, like, what are you going to do for Ilia? Like, if Ilya wants a rematch? Like, I don't think. I don't justify that.

[Jamie Varner]

I don't believe so.

[Joe Rogan]

I think you give him Patty if Patty wins.

[Jamie Varner]

That's what I think. That's what his next fight should be.

[Matt Serra]

I think.

[Jamie Varner]

I think Patty wins.

[Matt Serra]

You think Patty beats Ilya?

[Jamie Varner]

No, I think he beats St. Denis to get to Ilya. I think his. He gets hit way too much to beat Ilya.

[Matt Serra]

Well, Ilya's sharp. He's so sharp in the strike. I rewatched that fight.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah, I like Patty in this one.

[Joe Rogan]

St. Denis is not an easy.

[Matt Serra]

I don't think he's easy. Saint Denis a beast.

[Jamie Varner]

I just think his Paddy striking's a little better and his jiu jitsu is better. I think the only place St. Denis has the advantages into the wrestling. Just my opinion.

[Matt Serra]

I don't know, man. St. Denis switched camps and then made that big adjustment after he lost. Lost to. Who did he lost to? Yeah, after my kind of fight, he's looked.

[Jamie Varner]

Patty puts him on his back at all. Like, I don't. Does Saint Deny train off his back because it didn't look like it in that Moicano match.

[Joe Rogan]

Patty and Ilya would be huge.

[Jamie Varner]

Hell, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Because they have his.

[Jamie Varner]

Because they have his. That's right.

[Matt Serra]

They got beef fight. Yeah, that would be a mess. That's the fight you make do that in London.

[Jamie Varner]

I think that's. That's the. That's the right comeback fight for Ilya

[Matt Serra]

and also do that anything Joe's like,

[Joe Rogan]

I'm going, oh, my God.

[Matt Serra]

Now, I don't want to get caught in a riot.

[Joe Rogan]

Not for anything. They were careful.

[Jamie Varner]

Might lock you up for your social media when you get over there.

[Matt Serra]

They would too.

[Joe Rogan]

They were on Patty when he lost to Justin and, you know, he got compromised also that first round. I believe he got poked in the eye or whatever else.

[Jamie Varner]

Whatever case, he went five with him.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, he did five with him and you know, and got battered and stood up to took great shots. And he's going to come out of that fight better. He'll know. Okay, there's more work to be done. There's holes I have my game, there's places where I got caught and he

[Jamie Varner]

has improved over his. Like when he first got there I didn't really think much of him but each time out he's. I think he gets a little better so.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah dude, for sure. It's just Justin's in.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah, he's my favorite fighter Rat, you know been for a minute.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, no doubt.

[Jamie Varner]

Cuz he's just always in the White House.

[Matt Serra]

Insane. And especially after you see that second round when I rewatched it again when Ilya was putting it on him in that second round. Oh, those Liverpool.

[Joe Rogan]

I know like how does he come back from this if he more than

[Matt Serra]

one too so beautiful though too like the way he delivers those shots, just clean. You know who else does it like that? Aaron Pico.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, great body work. Yeah 100 he's got to show his.

[Matt Serra]

Me too.

[Joe Rogan]

He looked great his last look.

[Jamie Varner]

Great.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, Pico was. Cuz that was one of those guys

[Matt Serra]

he was fighting Pitbull who's like, you know, a real legend but he, the

[Joe Rogan]

way he mixed it together, the striking and the wrestling was really good.

[Matt Serra]

He just got crazy in his debut and he just got a little. Just too hyped up, a little too aggressive against a guy who's way too skilled.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, you know, he's a hunter. Yeah, I, you know, he's like, I love that he's so aggressive, but that was a great comeback fight.

[Matt Serra]

Oh yeah, it was because it shows

[Joe Rogan]

that, that he's still in there. You know you get worried when they, when you see people get their lights put out like that, you're like, oh, they can ever be the same. And then when you see him come back and have a fight like that, being so intelligent. Yeah, that's a good sign. But he has to make sure his defense is always good because his chin is still suspect. Regardless of how good his skill is, he still don't have a chin.

[Matt Serra]

Well, he's been knocked down a bunch of times, you know, I mean after a certain amount of time times it's easier to get knocked out and you got to know he's been knocked out.

[Jamie Varner]

In training I always believe part of your chin is believing you can't be knocked out. And then when it happens to you that first time, instead of when you get your bell rung, you bite down on your mouthpiece now you're like oh, not again. Like I think mentally it's maybe it's

[Matt Serra]

different, you know, there's something to that probably. But then there's also Like a.

[Jamie Varner]

Well, if you get hit on a button, you get hit on the button.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

It's like, certain. That violates your beliefs.

[Jamie Varner]

Doesn't matter.

[Matt Serra]

Nobody twice. He wrote, red, bro, wheel kicks you. I remember that one. That was in Brazil on Edson.

[Joe Rogan]

Terry, Adam.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah, he had a good one, too.

[Matt Serra]

That's one of those where you go, I don't think that guy's ever going to be the same.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't think he was the same after that.

[Matt Serra]

No. Yeah, I thought it right then and there. I was like, I think that was too hard. Yeah, that was too hard. That's a different shot.

[Joe Rogan]

And you've seen it where guys, they get one, and then they're still in there. Then you see them get a couple, and then next thing you know, their chin is gone.

[Jamie Varner]

On.

[Joe Rogan]

It's just. It's not. And listen, Chuck Liddell's mentally strong. You know what I mean? Like, I wonder if this is gonna. You know, that's just his body saying. His body's trying to protect him.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. His body's saying, enough of this. And then it's also the. Apparently, it's the lining inside your brain. All that fascia tears over time and repeated head traumas and just. There's a lot of swashing around. So when you get dinged, your. Your brain is literally going without shock absorbers, rubbers bouncing off the inside of your skull. That might not be the technical way.

[Joe Rogan]

Hey, man, listen. All those height jokes, I was like a little armadillo. I was covering that little. Unless I'm running into a back fist, I was, okay, right. But it's so funny how everything just evolves. When I got stopped with the first ever. I was the first. First guy ever to get stopped with a back fist. And when I did, the people were like, yo, this guy must suck. Nobody gets stopped with that. Now you see it on every car. People getting stopped with back fist.

[Matt Serra]

Dude. We used to have these conversations, like Eddie Bravo and I at the beginning of the ufc, about stuff that works that's not in there yet. Like, what about this? What about that? And you know the big one that I missed on?

[Joe Rogan]

What's that?

[Matt Serra]

Front kick to the face before Anderson Silva. Front kick V toward the face. I'm like, that doesn't work. Nobody. Nobody does that. Yeah, that'll never. Yeah, it's too hard to land.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Jamie Varner]

Then it's.

[Matt Serra]

I don't even know why I thought that.

[Joe Rogan]

So you really thought that for a little bit?

[Matt Serra]

Because I was like, it's not worth it. I Was like, that is so powerful to the body. I was like, that's really where you should use it because you could land. It's a big target, and you could really a guy up. You get your most power with a front kick going straight. And I was like, to the face. It's like, too hard to hit. Yeah, yeah. Machida and Randy. I think it was like Vitor first.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Or Anderson Vitor first. I think that was the first one when we saw a real spectacular front kick knockout to the face. But then it was Machida and Randy. And then a bunch of people started doing it. And then front kicks of the phrase became like, thanks.

[Jamie Varner]

Thanks, Sensei Seagal for that.

[Matt Serra]

How about Michael? Michael Chandler? Tony.

[Jamie Varner]

That was a bad one. That might be the worst one. Yeah, yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Or Cheeto Rivera. Frankie Edgar. Front kicks to the face are brutal. I just didn't see that coming. I really. Because in martial arts tournaments, most people were throwing them to the body and not throwing them to the face. Even in kickboxing, not a whole lot of guys are throwing them to the face.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, the way Michael Chandler, I remember talking to him, he said he didn't even practice that.

[Matt Serra]

That's.

[Joe Rogan]

He just says he just saw the opening and just threw the kick.

[Jamie Varner]

That's wild.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

That's so crazy, man.

[Jamie Varner]

I think, too, once a. A successful technique gets out there and people see it, you know, then all of a sudden, hey, I could do

[Matt Serra]

that, you know, 100%.

[Joe Rogan]

He had a rough outing the last one, Mike.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, that's a tough.

[Jamie Varner]

I mean, that was a bad matchup. That's like that stainless saying, mike, it's time for you to retire.

[Matt Serra]

Mike is 40, Hoofy is in his prime, and he might be the scariest striker at 170, 155, rather. And by the way, way giant for 55.

[Joe Rogan]

I know.

[Matt Serra]

Gigantic, like, rangy. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Good movement.

[Jamie Varner]

He's good, bro.

[Matt Serra]

He hit him with, like, three wheel kicks.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah, yeah. He was just. I mean, it was target practice.

[Matt Serra]

It's crazy how good he is.

[Joe Rogan]

And you talk about that Taekwondo movement. He has that.

[Matt Serra]

Exactly.

[Joe Rogan]

But with boxing hands. So it's crazy.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. You know, I mean, got to tighten up the wrestling and the jiu jitsu, and that's why he lost to Benoit Senteni Y. But that was a good learning experience. When you see a guy who's that good, good. Everybody up. You know, the way he put out King,

[Jamie Varner]

that was real bad.

[Matt Serra]

He does it like a video game.

[Jamie Varner]

And I thought that was good. I thought it was gonna Be a decent.

[Matt Serra]

And by the way, the physique knockout, apparently he was like sick as a dog before the fight. Was they were talking about pulling out of the fight.

[Jamie Varner]

No.

[Matt Serra]

And he just took the fight anyway. Had one of the best performances of his career. But that guy's a. He's elite. And training with Volkanovski.

[Joe Rogan]

I know only gonna make him better. Perfect for sure.

[Matt Serra]

What better guy like wrestling strong like animal, featherweight. That was like the king for so many years. Won the crown again. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Stick around with that guy, he'll show you how to get up, he'll show you how to not get taken down.

[Joe Rogan]

And Volkanovsky, you know, he don't have much left in him.

[Matt Serra]

Right. So he's gonna want to coach.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, he's gonna want to, like, pass it on.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And you got the perfect guy to pass it on.

[Jamie Varner]

He's got a great fight iq.

[Joe Rogan]

You. Yeah.

[Jamie Varner]

Very well rounded, too.

[Joe Rogan]

Volkanovski. Yeah, Yeah, I think he's one of my favorite in terms of.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah, he's really grew on me. I didn't like him because of Max. You know, I was always rooting for Max, but, you know, he's earned my respect. That guy's just. He's. He's good. He's good everywhere too. He really is.

[Matt Serra]

The dude I got my eyes on the most is Carlos Protest. I got my eyes on him. That Jack Della Modelino and KO was crazy. Jack, Jack. Jack is so good. And he's so tough. He's so tough. And you watch Carlos just tee off on him.

[Jamie Varner]

Like target practice for him against such a high level.

[Matt Serra]

He was having fun.

[Joe Rogan]

I know. That's the. Ain't. That's the worst part, dude.

[Jamie Varner]

Morale. Morales is a savage too, still.

[Matt Serra]

I know, but that fight. Save that fight. Morales versus Protest. Save that fight.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Wait till it's ready.

[Joe Rogan]

Not yet.

[Matt Serra]

It's like, don't pull the brisket out of the smoker just yet.

[Joe Rogan]

I was.

[Jamie Varner]

I was telling Matt, I saw some grappling, like, footage of Morales and I mean, he looked pretty.

[Matt Serra]

Well, he has a wrestling background and if there's a way he's going to get Protest, it's going to probably be a combination of those things because Protest just wants to stand.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah, of course.

[Matt Serra]

And he's. He's built like, like if you had an engineer, like a long mosquito torso,

[Jamie Varner]

is as big as all legs and

[Matt Serra]

arms and he's so accurate.

[Joe Rogan]

He had his best round. The fifth round versus Ian Machado. Gary. Yeah, he came back like a bat

[Matt Serra]

out of hell and really had him hurt bad.

[Joe Rogan]

He might get out pointed, but he's. He's calm in bad positions, and he's always dangerous. That was the last. Are you thinking maybe he's a chain smoker or something that he's. Or he smokes cigarettes. The fifth round, man, he had. He had Ian in trouble.

[Matt Serra]

He's good, dude. And he's hit so hard. Hard. When he KO'd Leon, I was like, I know Leon's good. He's a good striker. To KO Leon, like, that clean was crazy.

[Jamie Varner]

They got a crazy room. Was the fight nerds they call themselves. And Hoofty was there.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Matt Serra]

He trains with them, and he trains with other people as well. Like, Pratez moves around, but he. You know, he had a giant and my Muay Thai record, right?

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, no.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. Like, how many Muay Thai fights did Carlos Protest have? Like, world class. Like, I've watched a bunch of his just pure Muay Thai fights. And the comfort level that he has in there, exchanging and moving and knowing where he's supposed to be and not to be that, like, sensitivity that he has to, like, striking exchanges. Because world class Muay Thai is such an advantage.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. I would favor him if he fought Ian Garry again, perhaps, because.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, yeah, he knows he has to, like, try to get it on him.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Can't point fight him.

[Joe Rogan]

Do you think that Islam's gonna just have his way, or do you think Ian Gary has a shot there?

[Matt Serra]

He definitely has a shot.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean, Ian.

[Matt Serra]

So he had 29 Muay Thai wins, five losses. So 34 Muay Thai fights and, like, high level, man. You watch him fight and you're like, okay, this guy, he can.

[Joe Rogan]

He.

[Matt Serra]

He knows where to be, where not to be, and he knows how to, like, piece people up, man. It's like when you have that high level. We've seen it so many times with these guys. Like, world champ, like Alex, see these world champion kickboxers, they enter into mma like, nobody has a chance standing with him. It's like. It's too scary.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

And that's what you're seeing with Carlos. It's like, fuck, man. What he did to jdm. I was like, holy shit.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean, he looked. He was having fun. He was just playing. I was like, what? What?

[Matt Serra]

Beating the out of the former world champion, having a good time. Just smashing stopped him. Had him screaming from calf kicks. Yeah, yeah. Whereas he. He went to his corner and they're like, no, Ah. Don't scream. They're telling him to not Scream. Yeah, well, you didn't just get kicked in the same shot six times.

[Joe Rogan]

You, you know that dude is.

[Matt Serra]

His nose is on the left side of his face and you talk, you're saying that guy toughen up.

[Jamie Varner]

Right. That's a fact.

[Joe Rogan]

That was one of those. I was. Had him when he was getting him up against the cage, I was flinching. I'm like, here it. It's coming, cuz you just, you know it's coming, but you just don't know where it's coming from.

[Matt Serra]

And those knees to the body are so nasty. PRZ is so nasty. He's so good, man. And he's getting better too. And he. And now he's starting to do this. Yeah, like he's feeling it. He feels like he's the best guy.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I feel like he's the scariest guy in that division.

[Matt Serra]

I think. Think so. He's the scariest, but it doesn't mean he's going to be the best. Right. The bottom line about Islam is no one's able to get away from him. He gets a hold of you. He's very good standing up now and he gets a hold of you. You're at ville. He has a different kind of wrestling, different kind of grappling.

[Jamie Varner]

Well, if Ian can't keep him off of him, I don't see how he beats him on the ground.

[Matt Serra]

His submissions are insane too. He's. He's just got a vice grip, man. I know everybody that he rolls with or everybody that he. He fights, rather. They all say, I've never been grabbed like.

[Joe Rogan]

Like that.

[Matt Serra]

Never been. Never felt anybody that strong.

[Joe Rogan]

Who's that?

[Matt Serra]

Islam. Islam? Yeah. I don't know if it's the same at 70, but he's so big. I can't imagine. It's not, it's not like he's a little 70.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Like, because he's, he's tall.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

He's got a good frame on him.

[Matt Serra]

I think he's going to be better at 70 because he's not going to be depleted. Because when I would stand next to him in the octagon when he was the 55 pound champion, I'd be like, how. How do you weigh 55? That doesn't even make any sense. You're 190 pounds right now.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Guaranteed. If I put you on a scale you weigh 190. Did you find it's so big.

[Joe Rogan]

I think Ian's gonna make it come competitive early, you know, like, cuz he's got good footwork, he moves side to side. Really good. He's long, but if he gets taken down twice and then it becomes a habit of him getting taken down, he won't get back up.

[Matt Serra]

He won't. If. But the thing is, if Ian Gary can get off sharp combinations early, he could stun him.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Cuz Ian can move. He's fast.

[Joe Rogan]

As fast.

[Matt Serra]

Fast as. And he's super accurate. And the way he throws his strikes is like real clean, no fat. In his mood, everything's like.

[Joe Rogan]

He's. He doesn't. Very responsible. Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

He's not like a physically overpowering guy. It's technique. His technique is sharp.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Did you see his interaction that time with. With Kamzat?

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

What are your thoughts on that?

[Matt Serra]

There was a little too much of a pat on the back.

[Joe Rogan]

That's what the. I'm talking about. Kamsat wasn't wrong. And I like Ian.

[Matt Serra]

I don't go against them, but there's like a pat on the back where they're kind of halfway.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, he went up to him like. Oh, you think he was trying to check him? What? You know, you got. Oh, you got coming up. Oh, you feel strong.

[Matt Serra]

And there's a weird thing. You hit me a little too hard on the back. Yeah. You know, there's one, there's a hug and then there's a slap. Slap.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Where like there's a slap slap. That's like a little aggressive, like some male dominance here. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

What are you trying to do?

[Matt Serra]

You don't like me?

[Joe Rogan]

Me?

[Matt Serra]

Are you hitting me? You feel like. It feels like you're hitting me a little bit.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Like if you were. If you hit a woman in the face like that, you go to jail.

[Joe Rogan]

Right?

[Matt Serra]

You're hitting me in the back. But if you like, hey, where's my spaghetti? And you double slapper in the back right now.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't even like from so many right hands. If you see this little.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, Jesus.

[Joe Rogan]

See this thing right here that's bumping out?

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, it's broken.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't like. Yeah, I it up on Shoney's head, but I don't like when guys try to. When they first meet someone, squeeze the hand and they try to squeeze. Squeeze, dude. Because I want to smack them right there.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, because it's.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm like. Because I feel pain with that.

[Matt Serra]

Another one.

[Joe Rogan]

What are we looking at? No, he's talking about the hamza.

[Matt Serra]

No, no, no, that's shavkat. That's shop. How dare you.

[Joe Rogan]

I fell down the wrong. I'm like, what are we Looking at.

[Matt Serra]

No, it was. Jamie wasn't at a fight. It was like. I remember seeing it.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

But I felt. I honestly felt bad for Hamzat trying to make 185. From all that I heard before the Strickland fight, like, he almost died to make 185. Yeah. When he made 185 when he fought Strickland. Really? Yeah. He was apparently thinking that he was going to go up to light heavyweight. And they were even talking about him fighting Yuri. And so he was preparing, like he was going up the light heavyweight. And if you watch him, he's another guy who's got a great YouTube channel. He details all his training. He was hanging out with that Calavita guy, doing a lot of cardio and strength. It's here. It is like he, he gave. He gave him. Before that. Before that, I think it was like, good job tonight. Good job. And I think he slapped him on the back. Before that. There was. Or maybe it was after. I don't know what it was, but it was enough. So, like, he's fine now. Like, they seem cool. Oh, no, no. Talking a little right here. He gets pissed and pushes him. He's a champion. Don't worry. So. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Well, you know, Hamza doesn't.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, I mean, he did give him a little. That little squeeze on the shoulder, bro. Yeah. That was not necessary.

[Matt Serra]

Chechnya is not America.

[Jamie Varner]

Right.

[Matt Serra]

Okay. Dudes that come from Chechnya, that is a war torn country and those don't play. The guy who runs it is. It's Hamza. Tomi.

[Jamie Varner]

Yep.

[Matt Serra]

Which is like. Okay, so much.

[Jamie Varner]

So he lets him tap him out.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. It's ridiculous, but that's how it goes. You know, you got to do what you got to do. But I like the fight. I think Ian has a real chance.

[Joe Rogan]

I do, too. I think early he does. But if he gets. If he gets taken down repeatedly, if

[Matt Serra]

he gets taken down, he might just get smushed. He might just get choked and smushed and choked. I don't know.

[Jamie Varner]

He struggled with. Shove caught on the ground.

[Matt Serra]

He did. But again, that's a couple of years ago. It's not like he's not getting better. I mean, that dude.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, he's smart. Like, he knows how to. He knows how to get himself prepared.

[Jamie Varner]

I think he's got a. His edge is on the, you know, on the feet, obviously. So I think that's where he. If he's gonna win, that's where he will.

[Matt Serra]

I don't know why people don't like him. I love him. He also is awesome.

[Joe Rogan]

He also almost finished Shavkat with a rear naked choke, if I remember correctly.

[Matt Serra]

Does that really.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah, he did.

[Joe Rogan]

He did have shot back. Yeah, he had his back.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, I forgot about that. I forgot about that.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean, he. That was the closest anybody came to finishing.

[Matt Serra]

He also up Shavkat's name. The knee.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

He hit him with that oblique kick to the knee. And that's the reason why Shop got how to get surgery.

[Joe Rogan]

Really?

[Matt Serra]

And he's had two surgeries since. Yeah. Like, Ian even made a post about it.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Damn. So rude. So rude. This is why you had to get surgery. He's like, I think Ian made a post. I saw a post that maybe somebody attributed to Ian, but it was. He. It was his work. I mean, look, it's a legal technique, and he's really good at it. And the way he throws it that oblique way sideways to the knee, that's devastating. And he's long enough to do you just kind of. Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

For sure.

[Matt Serra]

Jon Jones style. But he's like. With his. The way he could move in with combinations, it's very hard to deal with. But even he had a grab. Mvp. He's like.

[Jamie Varner]

I know, right?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

That's what I'm talking about. Where you can't hit them.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

And you're like, what am I doing here?

[Joe Rogan]

Well, see, but that's why I like Ian, like, in terms, like, think about that. Like, he's able to solve them problems. Like, he's. His IQ is so high, he's beating guys like MVP and like, the guys that other people. And Carlos. Protest. Guys that other people can't beat.

[Matt Serra]

Very true.

[Jamie Varner]

Very true.

[Joe Rogan]

Look at it.

[Matt Serra]

There it is right there. That's it right there, man. He back it up again. So we hit it right there. Oh, my God, dude.

[Jamie Varner]

Damn, that's a up.

[Matt Serra]

Look how bad that is. That's it right there.

[Joe Rogan]

Boom. Do that in the wooden dummy. That's a wing chunk. See, There you go.

[Matt Serra]

It's real. It's real wing Chunky Chung works proof, bro. Gary's no joke, man. He's dangerous. And that style of being that tall is so hard to deal with. Matt, my short brother, you know what

[Joe Rogan]

I'm talking about, dude, Let me tell you something.

[Matt Serra]

Especially little trolls like us, they'd always

[Joe Rogan]

try to latch onto my head.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. It's just so hard to even spar with tall guys because they can hit you from six inches further away than you can hit them. That's a lot of space.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. You got to come in behind that double triple jab.

[Matt Serra]

I love the fact that you. You can do anything and you should be able to kick to the knees. I hate the fact that it blew his knee out. We really haven't seen him the same since we. I mean, he's been. Two surgeries. I think he had one fight after that, right? Did he have one more fight?

[Jamie Varner]

He's had. He's had a what? Didn't he have a bad car accident or something like that?

[Matt Serra]

Did you?

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah. Shavkat. I thought so, though.

[Matt Serra]

I don't know. Maybe. I hope not.

[Jamie Varner]

Or maybe it was just his family.

[Matt Serra]

Maybe. I don't know. I hope he's okay. I just missed the guy in the octagon. He's good, man. Chavkat was good. It's just like one technique can change your.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah. I thought he was coming back like trying to rehab from whatever. From the accident. Like. Oh.

[Joe Rogan]

So. Yeah, that's.

[Jamie Varner]

I mean, look, he obviously.

[Matt Serra]

Well, first it was.

[Jamie Varner]

Hurt his leg for sure.

[Matt Serra]

For sure. He had ACL surgery before the that, so he might have.

[Jamie Varner]

Maybe that's. Maybe that's what happened. Maybe he redid it.

[Matt Serra]

Dude, that sucks. He's so good. But then again, it's like this sport waits for no one. These dudes are coming up. Coming up.

[Jamie Varner]

You know what?

[Matt Serra]

I'm bummed that got canceled this weekend is Ethan Ewing.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, yeah.

[Jamie Varner]

That kid's good.

[Joe Rogan]

So good.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah, that was going to be a good. That kid was fighting his slouch.

[Joe Rogan]

He came onto the scene and it was against Wellmaker. A short notice fight versus well Maker at Matt Madison Square Garden.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And well Maker and well, like he's having a heart. Well, Maker's having a hard time lately. He lost his. His last one, too. And he's a better fighter than that. So he's a young kid, so we'll see the best from him yet.

[Matt Serra]

But, well, he came out so spectacular. Wellmaker, did he look so good in his debut? And he looks like he's, you know, and on the contender series, he looks like he's. He's really good. But Ethan.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes, he's really good. He's real good.

[Matt Serra]

And he's another guy like we're talking about like these. This new breed of guys like the Sandhagens.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes.

[Matt Serra]

Constantly switching stances, constantly giving you different angles and directions. It's like very hard to pattern them.

[Jamie Varner]

He's. Is he on the Connor card too? Right?

[Matt Serra]

He was on. Oh, Sanhagen is.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, Sanhagen is Bautista.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. But he was. Ethan was on the card and I think they pulled him off.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah, he was. The dude he's fighting was undefeated. What's. There it is Basarat.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. Yeah. And Basharat's good. Yeah, that's a really good.

[Jamie Varner]

He's tall, rangy. He like. That would have been interesting.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

See the rest of the card. Can we see?

[Matt Serra]

He's injured. He'll be back. But I like the fact that he's not fighting injured too, because it's a pretty significant injury. And so when these guys, they say it, I'll just do it. And then you have one loss and then that loss leads you. You know, your career can go down a weird road.

[Jamie Varner]

Pretty good.

[Matt Serra]

It's a very good car, is a good card. Benoit and S. Denis and Patty Pimblett, right? That's right. And then Conor Max is on this one too, right?

[Jamie Varner]

Yep.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, there was. He was going around that he was going to fight Josh Hokut and I was like, please don't make that be true.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, but he's a minus 2500.

[Matt Serra]

Robert Whitaker and Nikita Kryloff is good too, man. Yeah, that Robert is going from 170 to 85 to now light heavyweight. Isn't that crazy? And he's not that.

[Joe Rogan]

He's not that big.

[Matt Serra]

Not that big.

[Joe Rogan]

No, he's.

[Matt Serra]

Is he like six, three short?

[Joe Rogan]

98 even?

[Matt Serra]

No, six. How tall is Robert? Six feet tall? Yeah, six. So he's. I mean, he's a thick fella.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Definitely got to be walking around at like 230 or something like that. But these guys are so tall and so rangy. And that Nikita Kryloff guy can kick.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah, he's a legit 205. Yeah. Cody still, he was lighting up Yuri

[Matt Serra]

in that fight before he got caught, remember? Yeah, he was lighting Yuri up, sure.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah. Cody, I don't. I think it's time to Cody Garbrent.

[Matt Serra]

Adrian Yanez, man, he went through a bad streak too. But that dude's very skillful, very good boxer.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, he looked good in his last.

[Jamie Varner]

What's Cody doing too? What is this thing on his eye? Is he angry that he's good looking?

[Matt Serra]

Yanez is, yeah. Got a doctor it up. The kids these days, they like fakes to. He's Yanya's 450 favorite, so I'm saying like minus 450.

[Jamie Varner]

Cody's chin, man, he's just been too many times, too many times.

[Matt Serra]

What's an age thing too? I mean, Cody's not actually that old. I think he's only like 33. How old is Cody Garbrandt?

[Joe Rogan]

33. No, he's got to be older than that.

[Matt Serra]

I don't think he's old. No, I don't think he's old. I think he started his career 34.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, my God.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, see, I think he started his career really young, dude. 95 now. Oh, July 7th.

[Jamie Varner]

Oh, so next week, Max started was what, 19? This guy's still great.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, well, you know, when I interviewed them for the UFC at the White House, which is the most ridiculous thing in the world, I'm sitting there in this ball, this like, beautiful adorned room with like gold on the ceiling and like that and on a chair with a camera in front of me. And then there's a monitor here, that's Connor, there's a monitor there, that's Max. And they're arguing with each other.

[Joe Rogan]

You won't lay a glove on me. There you go.

[Matt Serra]

It was, it was crazy to see the two of them going back and forth. It's fun seeing Conor come back, man.

[Joe Rogan]

I know he's.

[Jamie Varner]

I mean, he is the world's greatest.

[Matt Serra]

He cracked me up, man. He was cracking me up.

[Joe Rogan]

I can't wait till fight week.

[Matt Serra]

It's gonna be amazing.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Look, I hope he looks great. I hope it's a good fight. But, you know, know it's a tall order to take on Max Holloway after he was just the BMF champion. He beat Dustin Poirier. Yeah, he lost to Ilya, but like, you look at the wins that that guy's had in his career and how he's looked since their first fight is a totally different human being. Yeah, this is a world champion, like one of the all time featherweight greats.

[Joe Rogan]

I think if Conor don't knock him out early, he's in for a long night.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Max can fight with no weight, cut, no weights, never get tired.

[Joe Rogan]

People are saying like, oh, yeah, but what about moving up way? I'm like, that's great for him.

[Matt Serra]

He don't have to cut no weight for him. It's great for both of them. Listen, this is the future. I would hope, I would hope guys would abandon weight cutting. I really do. And I think the UFC should accommodate it by letting go of these ridiculous weight limits. Let's just find out what guys weigh. Yeah, let's find out what guys weigh and like, have them fight.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, fight. Does one still do that? I mean, that was the way to go. Like the way you went at the beginning of the year. And then like, this is where you're going to fight.

[Matt Serra]

If I. I would run things like one, because they also allow steroids. Allegedly. I might have just made that up. I don't want to get slandered. I don't want to get sued. I don't think. Well, did they have. They. I think they have drug tests at one. I think it's like a multiple choice. Multiple choice. I want guys to take. None of the above. I want them to take peptides. I want them to take everything they have. I want to give them a hyperbaric chamber. Like, let's go.

[Joe Rogan]

And then just release them.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, release the hounds. I want the best fighting that's humanly available.

[Joe Rogan]

The old pride days.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, that's exactly what it is. I want the enhanced games MMA bouts.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes. But with Connor and Max, one guy, even in his prime con has always showed sign, shown signs that, you know, his endurance was never the best.

[Matt Serra]

He's a sprinter.

[Joe Rogan]

And Max is. Is, man. He's the guy in the last round 30. He's winning a fight. Yeah, he's. He's fresh. His fifth round is. Is as good as his first round.

[Matt Serra]

Max's discipline is beyond compare. Like that trains hard. You might train just as hard, but there ain't harder. Ain't harder.

[Jamie Varner]

The craziest one was when he put it on Calvin Cater and he was. He was just talking.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah, we were there. We was.

[Jamie Varner]

It was so crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

I was watching that cage side and I. He. Him looking away, talking and hitting him was just something, bro.

[Matt Serra]

How about Brian Ortega when he was fighting him, showing him how to keep his hand. He grabs him. Grabs his hand and puts it by his head. No, do like this so you can block it and then pops him with a jab again, bro. Max Holloway is a bad dude. You know, I think it's going to be interesting to see. Look, Conor in his prime was elite. Conor, Eddie Alvarez, if it's that Connor right now fighting Max, I'd be like, holy.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, that's a.

[Matt Serra]

That's different.

[Joe Rogan]

Different.

[Matt Serra]

But can he regain that form?

[Jamie Varner]

Right?

[Matt Serra]

We don't know. I mean, he's a special dude. Look at this. Just pop talking to him.

[Joe Rogan]

Dana was. Dana was losing his mind over there.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. There's also covet, so you could kind of hear him, right?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

100.

[Jamie Varner]

Because this is not.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, look at that. Look at that. Right?

[Jamie Varner]

Look at it. He wasn't even looking at it was slipping.

[Matt Serra]

I'm the best boxer in the ufc. Look at this, bro. He's such a bad man. And if he Starts talking to Conor like that in the middle of the fight and teeing off on him. If Connor gets tired, it could get rough.

[Joe Rogan]

Look at his last fight with Dustin. Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

The difference is Connor. I don't give a if he's 39. I don't care how old he is. That dude's got the touch.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, he does.

[Matt Serra]

He's got the touch of death.

[Jamie Varner]

And he's very accurate.

[Matt Serra]

And he's accurate and he's fast as. And when he's sprinting. When he's sprinting, he moves quicker than anybody. Anybody.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

And it's like you can't do that for five rounds, but if he does it and cracks you, you're in. You're onville. Look what he did to Aldo. Who the ever done that to Aldo? That's the touch.

[Joe Rogan]

Do you think there's any chance that Conor wrestles him? I think Connor might try to wrestle him a little bit.

[Jamie Varner]

That's what Nate said.

[Matt Serra]

Because he wanted to turn it.

[Joe Rogan]

Maybe. Maybe looking at that and then maybe

[Jamie Varner]

seeing it, I don't see that. I think Max has got to put it on him a little bit and then he'll shoot because he's not in. In it for war.

[Matt Serra]

That's going to get him even more tired.

[Joe Rogan]

He did in his first fight. He wrestled.

[Matt Serra]

We say he's not in it for war, but he can surprise us, man. Like, you know, the humiliation of losing that second fight to Dustin with a broken leg and sitting there and having to go out for all the. Who knows how he responded to that. Obviously he did a lot of partying. We don't know what kind of training, you know, and if he really is still the Conor McGregor that had something to prove when he entered into the ufc and he can get himself into that mindset and get through a camp with that mindset. Who knows, man? I mean, he. He definitely looked focused as when I was talking to him in the. The interview. It doesn't really mean anything until you actually see him move around. Yeah, but if he really prepared himself correctly, who wants to make a stand and show that he could still do it? This might get wild, but if that's

[Joe Rogan]

the strategy, man, if he's worried about his endurance already or if that's a question, if that's the strategy, it's not like he's going to take him down and just smoke them. Max has got. He has a round.

[Matt Serra]

And smoke him.

[Jamie Varner]

Right.

[Matt Serra]

I would like to talk to Kavanaugh and see what was the plan. Like, how did. What did you guys Do. How long was the camp? Like, how did it start? What was he doing before the camp? Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

So I had talked to Laura Sanko, who interviewed Kavanaugh. Okay. And she said that. That he wouldn't say it, but he kind of alluded to that wrestling might be a part of the game plan.

[Matt Serra]

Well, that might be a ruse.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

That might be to lure. Because the way that Charles handled Max in the last fight was crazy. But also, that's Charles.

[Joe Rogan]

That's what I'm thinking.

[Matt Serra]

Just get ready.

[Jamie Varner]

Nobody else took Max down like that. Nobody.

[Matt Serra]

Charles is a monster.

[Jamie Varner]

Charles is Charles.

[Matt Serra]

He's so good on the ground, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Max had to survive some that other people would have tapped.

[Matt Serra]

And a lot of people. Here's what's crazy.

[Jamie Varner]

Crazy.

[Matt Serra]

Islam smushed him.

[Joe Rogan]

I know.

[Matt Serra]

Right, Right. There's crazy levels to this sport.

[Joe Rogan]

True.

[Matt Serra]

Islam smushed him.

[Jamie Varner]

I know.

[Matt Serra]

He got him. Made him look bad. Made him look bad. Mush. He was tapping, like, immediately he was like, yeah, yeah. I ain't getting out of this.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

I'm going. Night night. That's how good he is. I mean, his. His squee when he got Drew Dober in half guard. Oh, how do you get that arm triangle from half guard? It's like just.

[Joe Rogan]

There ain't no half guard here.

[Matt Serra]

This is just smush.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Pressure.

[Matt Serra]

Just.

[Joe Rogan]

Pressure is phenomenal.

[Matt Serra]

Incredible Squeeze. Like. He just cuts off the blood like you. There's nothing you could do about it. That forearm grip dart that he uses, do you with that?

[Joe Rogan]

I don't mess with that, but I know how powerful it is.

[Matt Serra]

Do you with it, Matt?

[Joe Rogan]

No, that. That was never my thing. Yeah. The Condes and the Doris because we're short armed.

[Jamie Varner]

It's a problem with me with these things, you know, These are great for some things, but not for D.

[Joe Rogan]

Because, like, all you have to do is grip here.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. I never tried it, though. But I did used to like the Japanese necktie for the same reason. Because the Japanese necktie, when you're funneling under for. When you go for that underhook on the left arm and you get it behind the head, you cinch down like this. And then instead of trying to go all the way through and cinch it up as a dar's, you take it from this position with this lever on the back of the neck, and you tuck the neck into your chest.

[Joe Rogan]

Okay.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

And then you grab a leg. You grab a leg and you do this.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Lean on this shoulder. So you once. You cinch it up. As soon as you get this forearm behind the neck. The first thing to do is you put your left shoulder to the mat. So your left shoulder, you drop down the mat, and usually they think they're going to spin out of it, but you're trapping the head with your shoulder to the floor.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Matt Serra]

There's a video of me. See? There's a video of me showing it to TJ Dillashaw. We're at the on it headquarters, and I'm showing how to do it. It's great for short arm.

[Joe Rogan]

You're on his back.

[Matt Serra]

You're saying no, you're on the dart. Specific position. Right. So he's got the underhook. You funnel under. You get it behind the head. Once you get it behind the head, you use this lever. You pin that down on the neck. And the first thing I want to do is put my left shoulder over on the top. So here. Oh, here it is. So here it is. So once you get to this position and you climp. I want to put my shoulder down. And then his head is trapped.

[Joe Rogan]

Is that a neck crank?

[Matt Serra]

100%. It's horrible.

[Jamie Varner]

You hip and in.

[Matt Serra]

Yes. And you usually grab a hold of a leg.

[Jamie Varner]

You can just step over. It's right there.

[Matt Serra]

Jamie, back it up to where I'm showing it to him, and then I talk through it. Back it up a little bit. Yeah, there it is. Give me some volume. Okay. But try this, though. The difference between what you're doing and what I'm doing is I'm going onto my left shoulder. Yeah. Once you got this. If I hook this leg, I'm going on my left shoulder. Yeah. So I'm all the way sideways. Okay. Yeah, yeah. So there's a tremendous.

[Joe Rogan]

So you're hooking her leg even before you fall down, too.

[Matt Serra]

Immediately. Because you tangling up with.

[Joe Rogan]

Get it. If you fall down.

[Matt Serra]

Exactly. So as soon as I cinch my hands together, I'm hooking a leg. I want to tie him up.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

I want to tie him up, and I want to get him in a position where he thinks he's going to roll out of it like you would with the Daris. But you can't roll.

[Joe Rogan]

You can't. Now you already got the leg.

[Matt Serra]

Exactly. Because I also. Because I'm trapping your head in my chest. So you're. You're just worried about me getting this, but I'm not even trying to get that. I'm just getting this. Give some volume right here.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah, dude, that's a.

[Matt Serra]

Let me see that again.

[Joe Rogan]

Would you get it Right, right, right.

[Matt Serra]

For sure. See, people, like when they put their legs in there. That's what he was just saying. That's why it's like. It's really good that cranks that neck, that Danny Castillo. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's more pressure. You very rarely see this in the ufc, and it's available, too, because also the gloves, they get in the way of certain chokes. Like, definitely Rear Naked Chokes. It's so hard to get the hand in the proper position with the back of the hand on the head.

[Jamie Varner]

Does it matter which leg you step over? Like, over the first. You stepped over the far leg.

[Matt Serra]

The far legs better. You get better control. But it doesn't matter as long as you could tie him up and trap his head inside your chest. So once the head's in the chest, you're in a terrible position to defend because it puts your head at this nasty angle, like the moment your head gets to that angle. So TJ showing, like, one of the ways that he does. Does it. He's doing.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm about to say his grip is different from yours.

[Matt Serra]

He's trying a different grip. Yeah, I like my grip better. Well, it's not my grip, it's Eddie Bravo's grip, but I like the grip better because you got the lever. So the thing is about having it go through this lever. When you get this forearm on the back of the neck, that's a lot of power. Yeah, there's a lot of power that way. So if you see how I'm doing, I'm doing it, like, a little bit.

[Joe Rogan]

And he's just.

[Jamie Varner]

Yours, too. You're. You're all on his. On his head and neck.

[Joe Rogan]

Neck.

[Jamie Varner]

TJ is cradling him, so he did

[Matt Serra]

it that way now, like, in that. That time, now he's doing it the right way. That's. That's nasty. And then once it gets in the chest. Yep. Trap the leg. He could trap either leg. It's. The whole thing is just trapping the head. You just want to make sure you have contact with his body. So his left legs or his right, his legs, rather can't spin out. You don't want him spinning out because then his head's going to get free. It's nasty, but it's just. I don't see it in mma, and I don't know why. Because it's available when guys are trying to get the dars and they can't get it. It, like, there's a lot of times the legs are tangled up and it's. It's horrible because you have this level. You remember when Khabib tapped Connor and everybody's like, oh, you didn't even. It wasn't even in the choke. He was doing that same. But he was doing across the neck on the back. Horrible. It's going to break your neck, man. And that's what that feels like. But that's even worse because it's sideways

[Jamie Varner]

and you got your body on it.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, but the, the worst that I've never seen in the UFC is the execution. I don't think I've ever seen anybody get that rear that, you know, you're in the back mount and you reach over, you go guillotine.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes, yes. Like that the other day. Well, that was the.

[Matt Serra]

The.

[Joe Rogan]

The Scottish.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, Scottish twister. The Scottish twister. That's different. Yeah, Scottish Twitter twister is a little different. It's still nasty as. That's the. You're leaning back, right? Yeah, yeah. It's horrible in your neck.

[Joe Rogan]

Anything that attacks the spine and the.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, they're horrible.

[Joe Rogan]

But I think couldn't fast enough.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, the Executioner is the worst. Cuz you're. You've got Rear Naked Hooks and you got the head back this way and you're going like that. Yo, that's nuts. That's nuts.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Now that's a catch wrestling thing, right?

[Matt Serra]

Oh, that. I don't know, man. That sort of started popping up at 10th planet, at least like in the 2000s, like 2003 or 4. Some Epstein likes to call it the execution, but he wasn't the only guy doing it. Like, other guys had figured it out. So you're in north, south, which a lot of guys, you know, that was back in the north. Yeah, this is it right here, bro. This is. Holy hell. When you're in rear naked choke position, but you have the, the arm wrapped like that, the amount of pressure on the spine is just crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

100 shout out to 100 Long island knucklehead. They'll be making sure everybody sign a waiver on that.

[Jamie Varner]

But look at.

[Matt Serra]

Look how nasty this is. Like, it's such a bad position to try to defend. You have no strength to defend it.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, that's just. Yeah, that's a rap hell.

[Matt Serra]

That's a hell. And I don't see it in the ufc and I don't understand why. I think it's available. I think some guys could get this. I mean, not always, but there's a lot of times you're trying to fight the Rear Naked choke or the. You're Trying to get the rear naked choke of the guy's defending. If you switch to something like this, if you could find a way to get into a position like this, this, you're not going to defend that, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, the truth is that a lot of guys in the UFC, or in MMA in general, don't really practice Jiu Jitsu from that standpoint.

[Matt Serra]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

They do anti Jiu Jitsu because they think that their chances of winning a fight on their feet are better.

[Matt Serra]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

So their idea is just like, defend the takedown, get back to my feet.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Or just use basic Jiu jitsu. So, like, stuff like this that's available to them, they don't know it or they don't practice it enough for it to be instinctive for them to do it. The fact that they're just trying to get up to their feet's the first problem, right? Yeah, that's it. Yeah. Because look at Gilbert Burns versus Damian Maya. When he matches Jiu Jitsu a little bit, then he finds the opening. If he doesn't match a Jiu jitsu, he'll use that, but then he has to move a certain way, gives enough space to get to his feet.

[Matt Serra]

God, I gotta remember this guy's name. The guy who's the Bellator champion, who's from Ukraine, who's fighting in the UFC once.

[Joe Rogan]

Amazon.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, bro. Yeah, you're a Slav. Amazon.

[Matt Serra]

I knew that was the name and I didn't want to it up and I, I was panicking.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it's not easy to.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, but you know, when I really panic, weigh in days, you look at my face, I. Are you really a hot panic I'll

[Joe Rogan]

be feeling for you sometimes, Stuff like that. He's gonna forget the name. Do you.

[Jamie Varner]

You don't bring the paper up spelled on your paper?

[Matt Serra]

I do. I have to. I have. Not only that, I have to listen to these names over and over and over again.

[Jamie Varner]

Some of that shit's coming and you

[Joe Rogan]

know, and Anak gonna be mad at you if you mess it up.

[Matt Serra]

He's so good at it.

[Joe Rogan]

I don't know how you.

[Matt Serra]

He should be doing it. I should give the microphone name. He'll introduce the guy. I'll just interview people. Yeah, he's the best at naming the names.

[Joe Rogan]

I do that on unfiltered. I go, hey, Jimmy, who do we have next? It's a crazy name. I just get the first name down.

[Matt Serra]

Your slob is good.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, he's good.

[Matt Serra]

He's good. His ground game is so sweet.

[Jamie Varner]

Did you See him fight the which show?

[Matt Serra]

See, pull up his last fight. Fight.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. He beat up.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. Back it up a little bit so you can see the takedown. Watch how he does this. Look at how beautiful this is, bro.

[Joe Rogan]

All in the hip.

[Matt Serra]

I mean, here comes it right into arm triangle. Look at this.

[Joe Rogan]

Wow. That's a bro.

[Matt Serra]

And then he goes knee to the belly, too. Just crushing him.

[Joe Rogan]

Did you see his setup for Neil Magni?

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. Oh, man, he's so smooth, man. He's smooth.

[Joe Rogan]

He's smooth.

[Matt Serra]

He's smooth.

[Jamie Varner]

He put it on Neil.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. And then he break dances.

[Joe Rogan]

Break dances.

[Jamie Varner]

Gotta have some, actually.

[Joe Rogan]

Look at that, man. Little windmill.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, that guy can move. And that guy's really good. He's dangerous.

[Jamie Varner]

Old Sean Alvarez, he would be doing the windmill.

[Matt Serra]

He has one KO loss.

[Joe Rogan]

That was Jason Jackson.

[Matt Serra]

Jackson, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Jason Jackson knocked him out. He just put it on him. Jason Jackson just. Yeah, just murdered him. Just like, random. Ran across and beat him up.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. I was talking to Big John and Josh Thompson on the podcast. They brought him up like that. He's like the un. Most unheralded, the most underappreciated of the guys that are out there.

[Joe Rogan]

Jason Jackson.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

So that's a problem when you're not in the ufc, that is.

[Joe Rogan]

And if the UFC picks him up, I mean, it's gonna be kind of late.

[Matt Serra]

He had to dig through the rubble of his house to get it.

[Jamie Varner]

Holy jeez.

[Matt Serra]

That's nuts, man.

[Jamie Varner]

That's crazy.

[Matt Serra]

That's nuts.

[Jamie Varner]

Put in perspective real fast.

[Matt Serra]

Holy, dude. How bad did he want that belt?

[Jamie Varner]

For real, right?

[Matt Serra]

I mean, this dude went back to a war zone to get his belt.

[Joe Rogan]

Christ.

[Jamie Varner]

Imagine if it's a UFC belt.

[Matt Serra]

That's so crazy. That dude's good, man. There's so many good guys now. It's crazy. It's just a. It's a wild time for the sport, man. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You know. Know, I like Big John. You know, one thing I don't like that he does. Well, it always irks me. Like, Big John McCarthy, I like he. When I won the title, he was my guy. But I hate this, man. As you savages know, when you're in there, you're in a certain mindset, right? You got a guy looking to do bodily harm to you, you're looking to take him out anyway, politics possible if there's a foul or something. Now you're in this mindset. So now you got this big guy. Hey, what do you see? You see ugly making jokes? Oh. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay. Let me go back to this guy trying to kill me. Big. Good one, Big John.

[Matt Serra]

What the.

[Joe Rogan]

Really? You're like. I'm making jokes in the middle. How about this? How about you go to the mothership? How about you take a. Put your name in the hat. You take the name out, and maybe you could use that on Kill Tony. I don't like that. That every time he does it.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, my God.

[Joe Rogan]

There's something in me that makes me just be like, dude, is it about you? What the is the matter with you? Good one, Big John. Oh, and you see the guy's doing. Sometimes you see the guys go, okay, yeah, all right. Dude, that. It's the same as. It's the same as the guy looking to give you a high five out there. That too. So, I mean, I don't know, man. It always irked me and it just stuck out when you. His name came up and I. He's not a bad guy.

[Matt Serra]

He's a great guy. I love him.

[Joe Rogan]

But how about this? Now that you're back refin. Make a note of that. Maybe put your name in the. That.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, I can imagine that would. With your head, right? It'd be like, man, make me listen to that joke.

[Joe Rogan]

Godamn.

[Matt Serra]

I just got poked in the.

[Jamie Varner]

In here working.

[Joe Rogan]

What are you. You see Ugly, bro.

[Matt Serra]

I think they're getting a little bit better about warning people for fouls, but not better about taking points. They did for a little while.

[Joe Rogan]

It was hot. And they were like, yeah, one point.

[Matt Serra]

And everybody was like, yes. Crowd cheered. That's how it's got to be, folks. That's the new rule. The new rule should be be I poke one point. Don't poke eyes. You do this and you jab someone in the eyes. One point. One point.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, one point.

[Matt Serra]

Right away, you know not to do it. Sometimes it happens. Unfortunately, if it happens, you get a point taken away. Don't let it happen. And you go back to your corner. Go. Make sure you don't do that again. Nutshot. One point. Unintentional nunchot. It's a warning, like, because you could kick while I'm kicking, right? You weren't trying to hit me in the nuts. We just collided legs. That happens all the time.

[Joe Rogan]

The rough one is the call. The call is the. The back of the head when you're trying to put a guy away because he's moving his movie trying to hit him.

[Matt Serra]

It's hard. That's hard.

[Joe Rogan]

It's kind of.

[Matt Serra]

That's hard.

[Joe Rogan]

And that spot is a lot smaller. Than what most people think. Because we.

[Matt Serra]

Because we.

[Joe Rogan]

We think about it, they just say the back of the head.

[Matt Serra]

So you're assuming that it's like anything

[Jamie Varner]

that's just a moho.

[Joe Rogan]

It's like a little small piece.

[Matt Serra]

Isn't that crazy, though? Yeah, you kind of should be able to hit the back of the head.

[Joe Rogan]

If everybody had the Oday Osborne haircut, it'd be okay. Just don't get him. Just don't hit him in his hair, bro.

[Matt Serra]

Do you remember when Henzo fought. What was his name? Rikers, Ben Spikers. And it showed. If you're allowed to elbow the back of the head, the rear mount. When Henzo.

[Joe Rogan]

Bro.

[Matt Serra]

When Henzo was dropping bombs on him and then stepped on him, put him

[Joe Rogan]

to sleep with his jacket. With his.

[Matt Serra]

Remember that eating he gave him before he choked him to sleep?

[Jamie Varner]

No beating in the background room all night long.

[Joe Rogan]

The guy was. The guy was being a prick before

[Matt Serra]

he was a piece of.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, he did what? What he did.

[Jamie Varner]

Oh, yeah, yeah. He was calling his room, trying to wake him up, like, had his people harassing Enzo. He was a dick. And that's why he wanted to greet him.

[Joe Rogan]

And he said, oh, you have not. You have eyes like my. My girlfriend, but they're prettier or some. So right away, Henzo's one of those guys that he can go from a smile to a few seconds and about the.

[Jamie Varner]

I mean, 0 to 100 really quick.

[Matt Serra]

Well, and, you know, only if you're a dick.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, yeah.

[Matt Serra]

You're not a dick. He's the nicest.

[Jamie Varner]

Come on.

[Matt Serra]

That. That position just shows you if you're allowed to do that. Yeah, this is. But show before that. Watch what he does before. It's once. Here it is. Once he gets them back mount. Watch this. I mean, dude. Dude, that's a wrap. You can only take. Imagine if that was in mma. Why now? Here's the thing.

[Jamie Varner]

He has a gear.

[Matt Serra]

Is that inherently dangerous? Is it that much more dangerous?

[Joe Rogan]

I mean, what we're doing is already dangerous, right?

[Matt Serra]

And it also is very effective. So are we removing a very effective technique that would end fights? And if so, are we doing it to protect the fighter? Because if we are, why are we allowing a lot of other stuff? Why are we allowing flying knees?

[Joe Rogan]

Right?

[Matt Serra]

Why are we allowing sidekicks to the knee? Why are we allowing wheel kicks to the head? Heels to the head, Smack him in the face again. Hey, nice fight.

[Joe Rogan]

Smack step those neck.

[Matt Serra]

I mean, there's a certain amount of things that we already allow that are so Bad for you. It's like, why don't you allow a shot to the back of the head? I need it explained to me. Like, I'm a child. Like, why is it okay to slam your elbow full blast into someone's temple?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, but not this spot.

[Matt Serra]

You could drive your elbow down into their eye socket. That's okay. But the back of the head is bad. But also the back of the head's fine. If you knock someone out from the back of the head and you didn't mean to, like a head kick. Like, how many head kicks wrap around the back of the head? Right. Wonder boy. And it's like his UFC debut. He goes over the shoulder, whack, back of the head, out cold. Yeah, that shit always works. The back of the head, round kicks, That's a lot of times where they

[Jamie Varner]

land you getting hit in the back of the head. It is a little different. Different, yeah.

[Matt Serra]

How many times are like. Like Ernesto, who's knocked dudes out with back of the head, head kicks in kickboxing?

[Joe Rogan]

A lot of time, for sure.

[Matt Serra]

I think that's how he knocked out Maurice Smith. I think he snuck it around over the shoulder and hit him in the back of the head.

[Jamie Varner]

I mean. I mean, anatomy is going to dictate that.

[Matt Serra]

That footage you're supposed to, you know.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Matt Serra]

So that's legal. No one says that's an illegal blood low.

[Joe Rogan]

My overhands, that's where they hit a lot them. Yeah. I mean, well, I'm facing you. What do you want me to do?

[Matt Serra]

This is what is part of the sport right now. If that's legal and you get okayo win. If you head kick someone, you land them in the back of the head. That. That's always happened. Yeah, that's happened a hundred times. I don't know.

[Joe Rogan]

I. I mean, it's weird, right? It is. I mean, it's weird because, I mean, then we. Now we're playing with all these different rules and people don't like them, and it's just like. But, I mean, you got to draw a line somewhere, I suppose, but see

[Matt Serra]

if you can find Ernesto Hoost. KO's Maury Smith.

[Joe Rogan]

Less rules shows who's the better fighter at the end of the day.

[Matt Serra]

But those. There's some rules that I'm like, okay, but now you're getting a unrealistic understanding of a position. Like when someone's in a turtle and you can't need it.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. To me, that one should be eliminated right away. You should be able to need a

[Matt Serra]

guy in A head. Yeah. Watch his. Look at that.

[Jamie Varner]

There it is.

[Matt Serra]

Right at the back of the head.

[Joe Rogan]

Yep.

[Matt Serra]

Watch that again. Can you. Is it in slow motion? Is that what it is? Watch. Watch how slick this is. Ernesto.

[Joe Rogan]

Look how close he is, too.

[Matt Serra]

Look at that.

[Jamie Varner]

Oh, man.

[Joe Rogan]

See how close he was?

[Jamie Varner]

Crazy. It's like Billy Jack.

[Matt Serra]

Look at that, bro.

[Joe Rogan]

Yep.

[Matt Serra]

And, you know, so if that happened in the ufc, everybody would cheer.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

You couldn't say, hey, that's an illegal blow.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. Right. Even though, technically, that's the spot where they can constitute a legal blow.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, that's illegal. Yeah, that's illegal. And wheel kicks happen like that all the time.

[Joe Rogan]

All the time. Because it's coming from that angle, from the.

[Matt Serra]

From behind, flipping around. The guy tries to duck under, hits him right in the back of the head, and no one complains. Yeah, it's weird. No one. The referee never says stop.

[Joe Rogan]

No.

[Matt Serra]

Striking the back of the head. Never happens.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Ever.

[Joe Rogan]

It's only when they're, like, turned around and they're throwing arm punches, which is the least. Which is less powerful than. Than a full kick to the head.

[Matt Serra]

But the reality is, if you were in that position and the guy could throw elbows to the back of the head, that would be a wrap. In that same position where you're on a guy's back and you're doing this kind of shit instead, if you're just back of the head, boom, boom, like Kenzo just did.

[Joe Rogan]

Right. Hey, man, what about headbutts?

[Matt Serra]

Right?

[Joe Rogan]

Headbutts. Not even even standing up.

[Jamie Varner]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

Like, when I'm in a clinch and I'm buried in. It's good for sure, guys. Yeah, I fucking love it.

[Jamie Varner]

Coming up in your head all day, bro.

[Matt Serra]

My getting that click. Coleman. Mark Coleman would get in your guard and headbutt the. Out of you. And the only guy to solve that puzzle was Maurice Smith. Well, Maury Smith was the first guy to solve that puzzle.

[Jamie Varner]

Dragged him out. Cardio.

[Matt Serra]

Cardio. And defense off his back.

[Jamie Varner]

Good Butterfly guard Mark Kerr murdered Fabio Gergel with headbutts, too, bro.

[Matt Serra]

Headbutts when you were on top is brutal.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, I was in that fight. That was the first fight I ever went to.

[Jamie Varner]

Really?

[Joe Rogan]

UFC fight I ever went to. Is it Birmingham? I. Alabama. Really? I was there. Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Wow, bro, that was a huge upset.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah, I know everybody.

[Matt Serra]

I was nervous.

[Joe Rogan]

I was in the crowd rooting for Maury Smith for obvious reasons.

[Matt Serra]

Well, I was friends and everybody, but

[Joe Rogan]

I was the only one there.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, I was friends with Maurice. Maurice came over my house, worked out with him. I was cool with Morris.

[Joe Rogan]

Nice guy.

[Matt Serra]

So it was like, I was sad. I was like, oh, my God, Maurice is going to fight Mark Coleman.

[Joe Rogan]

You're going to get killed.

[Matt Serra]

I was like, he is 260 pounds. He's a wrestler. He takes everybody down, down. And then when Maurice was leg kicking him, he said, come on, Mark, ground me and pound me.

[Joe Rogan]

Wow.

[Matt Serra]

Ground me and pound me.

[Joe Rogan]

Wow.

[Matt Serra]

He was talking to him while he was doing it. And then when Mark would move towards me. Move away.

[Joe Rogan]

Yes. Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Right back in. Those leg kicks were brutal too. Maurice was the first guy to bring like world class leg kicks to the ufc. Yeah, world class.

[Joe Rogan]

Did the Lions then guy?

[Matt Serra]

Actually Pedro Hizo.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, Pedro. Yeah, yeah.

[Jamie Varner]

Paul Varin, he had sick leg kicks.

[Joe Rogan]

The Lions. Pete, he. I mean, not Pete. Pete.

[Jamie Varner]

Pete Williams.

[Matt Serra]

Pete Williams. Williams knocked him out first. Yeah, I think Maurice beat him first, but Maurice beat him by decision, right? Wasn't it a five round decision?

[Joe Rogan]

I think it was a decision.

[Matt Serra]

I think it was a five round. He just beat him up.

[Jamie Varner]

Pete Williams caught him with a kick.

[Matt Serra]

Pete Williams head kicked with shoes on.

[Jamie Varner]

The good old days.

[Joe Rogan]

That's right. Shoes on. Yeah, bro.

[Matt Serra]

Us. What a crazy sport, man. I remember one of the first fights that I saw was this Japanese dude and VII and the J, they, they were grabbing each other's like underwear, like you could hold up. They was giving him a wedgie. I think the dude he was fighting, like, was literally grabbing his shorts and like giving him a massive wedgie, like during the fight. Totally legal.

[Jamie Varner]

It was totally legal in the ufc.

[Matt Serra]

Or it was bare knuckle back then. Two too. The first fight I worked was bare knuckle. Yeah, that was 97.

[Joe Rogan]

I remember that.

[Matt Serra]

Vitor was the only guy that had gloves on.

[Joe Rogan]

Was Vitor the first guy or Tank the first guy to wear?

[Matt Serra]

Tank was one of the first guys for sure. Tank might have been the first guy. I believe he was the first guy. And then Vitor. Warm too. Vitor was, you know, bro, at 19 years old. And Vitor first fought in the UFC. He was tornado. Fight. Holy, dude.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean, definitely a solder on that 100.

[Matt Serra]

He looked like the Hulk, but not yet he didn't. When he first Fought in the UFC, he only weighed 200 pounds. When he fought Trey Talman, he won 200. He weighed 200 pounds.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Then he gained tons of weight and fought Randy. And when he fought Randy, he was like 240.

[Joe Rogan]

And that messed him up too. He could.

[Matt Serra]

He was too big.

[Jamie Varner]

Whatever. Randy Got cut in that one, remember?

[Matt Serra]

No, that was a different one. That was in the UFC later on.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah, yeah.

[Matt Serra]

So this is like. So that was Trey Telegman. Yeah, And Trey Telegman, if you're watching this is. Lost his check in a. His peck, rather in a car accident when he was a baby.

[Joe Rogan]

That's crazy.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, crazy.

[Jamie Varner]

He lost.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, this is Brad Kohler. This is a different fight.

[Joe Rogan]

What is going on here?

[Matt Serra]

Japan 1997. Oh, yeah, it. This is not. That's not Japan 97, it's UFC 12. Actually, Japan 97 was when Frank Shamrock fought Kevin Jackson. Remember any arm. This was.

[Jamie Varner]

That was pretty crazy.

[Matt Serra]

This is a different card. It's ultimate Japan 97. UFC 12 is the fight I was just going off.

[Joe Rogan]

You remember the number?

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Randy looks older there than he does now.

[Jamie Varner]

Peptides.

[Matt Serra]

It's not. It wasn't Japan, though. I was just heard you say something about Japan in 1997. That's all I typed in. No, no, there's a Japanese fighter is what I said. He fought Baliji. Valid. Ishmael. It was either UFC 12 or UFC 13. Waleed Ishmael. UFC. If you find that, you'll find it. And the dude was giving him a super wedgie because you were totally allowed to grab shorts.

[Joe Rogan]

Shorts.

[Matt Serra]

You can punch guys in the nuts.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, Punching Joe Sod in his balls.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah. Remember that dude? What about Gary Goodridge in the crucifix?

[Matt Serra]

Oh, yeah, here it is. Paul Herrera. So here it is. Look what the dude's done to Luigi's pants. All the way up the crack of his ass because the dude had a hold of his shorts. I do remember earlier in the fight,

[Jamie Varner]

rather that be Mackenzie Dern.

[Matt Serra]

He's giving the wedding, but yeah, look at this dude. Here it is, bro. Oil check, bro.

[Joe Rogan]

Close. Oh, my God.

[Matt Serra]

So this was my first UFC that I worked. Okay, so look, the Japanese guy has the gloves on as well. So Vitor had him on, but look,

[Joe Rogan]

you're allowed to grab it back then.

[Matt Serra]

Look at the Japanese guy has gloves. Vegi's bare knuckle.

[Joe Rogan]

That's hilarious.

[Matt Serra]

Isn't that crazy? He's really grabbing his. Up there.

[Jamie Varner]

Grabbing his nuts.

[Matt Serra]

I think you could grab nuts.

[Joe Rogan]

It's got to be so uncomfortable. Hey, look how he's grabbing the fence. He's like. Yeah, full on grabbing the fence.

[Jamie Varner]

Big jump.

[Matt Serra]

John's trying to pry his hands away. He just grabs him again.

[Jamie Varner]

He just don't even let go.

[Matt Serra]

At least back then, I guess you couldn't grab the fence. So there was A rule. He's grabbing it again. Look at the grass.

[Joe Rogan]

Look at the grab.

[Matt Serra]

That's the most blatant friends grabbing of all time.

[Joe Rogan]

I see ugly right there, bro.

[Matt Serra]

Big John, what do you get on it, John? John, slap his hands away.

[Jamie Varner]

John, do something.

[Matt Serra]

John. Johnny's grabbing the fence.

[Joe Rogan]

They really.

[Matt Serra]

It was like a suggestion back then.

[Joe Rogan]

It was not even a rule allowed to grab the fence.

[Matt Serra]

I think he knocked his hands away. He was saying, don't grab the fence, but only like a little. He's kind of not that enthusiastic about enforcing it.

[Joe Rogan]

And it was like, as he was letting go already, he was like slapping his hand away.

[Jamie Varner]

Grabbed it.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

That was the first UFC I worked. The rules back then were so weird. Shoes, wrestling shoes. It's weird how you, you know, like, wrestling shoes would change everything.

[Joe Rogan]

You get so much more grip on

[Matt Serra]

the cage, so much more ability to move. Yeah, but the wrestlers would love it. But also locks.

[Joe Rogan]

That's what I'm saying. Yeah, that would be a problem.

[Matt Serra]

Problem. Oh, heel hooks be a real problem.

[Joe Rogan]

When I first started training, I remember with Kuk, back in the day, he used to wear wrestling sneakers and stuff. And I remember being like, you know, I wanted as much for the street as possible. I remember that was my mentality. So I'd wear the wrestling sneakers. I'm like, yo, this guys are grabbing your foot. And I'm like, y.

[Jamie Varner]

That everything.

[Matt Serra]

It also, like, setting up arm bars and stuff. Like when you try to grab the foot and throw it over, now you've got a grip on something that's like text textile. Like you could hold on to that. A foot is. Foot's hard to hold on to. They get sweaty and they're all slippery.

[Joe Rogan]

Nah, no good.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

When I hear hook, Jen's Pulver, I was like, he gonna wear shoes, right? Oh, word. That was. Hey. Hey, Jamie, can you find Dean Thomas's rolling knee bar on Jen's Pulver? Oh, I bet they don't even have that. I think Jamie could find that.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, it has to be online.

[Joe Rogan]

Everything's online, Thomas.

[Matt Serra]

Those fights, those old fights, I mean, those are history.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm a shooter fighter, you know. I remember seeing that interview, cuz I. You remember seeing it? I studied it, cuz I was going to fight you. Oh. And I'm like, ah, try that knee on me.

[Matt Serra]

Jen Pulver had some laser beam punches back in the day.

[Jamie Varner]

I know.

[Joe Rogan]

I remember when he knocked down John Lewis.

[Jamie Varner]

Oh.

[Joe Rogan]

I was like, I gotta fight this guy. Sh.

[Jamie Varner]

That was a bad one.

[Joe Rogan]

Jen's Paul, you Got him in his prime, too. Yeah, but I. He did not want that guy punching me. Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

You can't be wearing shoes.

[Joe Rogan]

It's just a knee ball.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, it's just too much. Too much of an advantage.

[Joe Rogan]

That was an old school one, too. You did it. Almost like you're gonna give your back to him and roll.

[Matt Serra]

I think you should let him.

[Joe Rogan]

Look at this.

[Matt Serra]

Look at this. Here it is. Look at this.

[Joe Rogan]

Who is that?

[Matt Serra]

Look how lean.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, man.

[Matt Serra]

Inside heel hook with shoes on. That's a wrap.

[Jamie Varner]

That's the worst.

[Joe Rogan]

He has no tap.

[Jamie Varner]

Tap. You should have tapped a long time ago.

[Joe Rogan]

Go, Thomas.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, my God. That must have hurt. Thomas, what did it feel like? Did you feel it?

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, I heard all the pop.

[Matt Serra]

How bad was the injury?

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, I don't know. I never called him afterwards, but.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, it had to be real bad, dude. It had to be real bad with the shoes and everything. Like, my God, look at that. Into that. That's so pretty.

[Joe Rogan]

Look at you.

[Matt Serra]

Look at you. Right into the inside. Oh, my God. He knows. He's. But, Bill. Oh, God.

[Joe Rogan]

I heard. I heard it pop. You mean Dean Thomas? Yeah, I heard that pop a few times.

[Matt Serra]

So Nice.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. That's awesome, Dean.

[Matt Serra]

How good does that feel?

[Joe Rogan]

It feels good. I've watched myself get knocked out by BJ Pen over and over and over for years, so, like, about time I get one, right.

[Matt Serra]

Come on. Those heel hook ones are the ones that you. While you're watching them, you're grabbing. Yeah.

[Jamie Varner]

You know, you're already like. You're like, I hate them.

[Matt Serra]

Them. I hate them with a passion. Yeah, because they ruin your whole career.

[Joe Rogan]

Hey, did you ever see a kamora dislocate?

[Jamie Varner]

Oh, yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Well, I saw.

[Joe Rogan]

That's just ugly, man. It's like you almost like you want to push it back in.

[Matt Serra]

You're like, Frank near right.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, dude.

[Jamie Varner]

Oh, Straight jiu jitsu tournament. I'd snap. The dude's humorous. Just like, straight up Keck. Because he didn't tap. My coach is yelling, like, protect your fighter.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh. Oh, Jesus.

[Matt Serra]

God, that's horrible. And you don't recover fully from that.

[Jamie Varner]

He had to get surgery. Sound like a pool stick snapping.

[Matt Serra]

Ah, I'll. I'll never forget the sound of Weidman when Wideman. Oh, come on. God. Oh, my God.

[Joe Rogan]

That's like a chalkboard.

[Matt Serra]

Never forget that sound.

[Joe Rogan]

I remember that.

[Matt Serra]

That one was so. That one was so loud.

[Joe Rogan]

That wasn't in the course.

[Matt Serra]

So loud.

[Jamie Varner]

What are the chances? Anderson does it to. You know, he does it to Anderson and then it happens to him, too.

[Matt Serra]

Like it's only happen four guys in the UF ufc. It's very conversation. Corey Hill's the first one. Yeah, I remember the Corey Hill one because the referee didn't see it. And I put my headphones off, I'm screaming, stop the fight.

[Joe Rogan]

Stop the fight. He passed away.

[Matt Serra]

Stop the fight.

[Jamie Varner]

Did he?

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Young. Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Was it related to that?

[Joe Rogan]

No, I think he has some kind of disease, some kind of like something with his bro.

[Matt Serra]

A break of a bone is a traumatic injury. Like, you have to understand this is such a difference between breaking your hand, which I think we've all done done, or I broke my arm when I was a little kid. Breaking your shin in half like that. It's such a traumatic stepping down on it.

[Joe Rogan]

And it just.

[Matt Serra]

Frank me broke his femur in a car accident. A guy T boned him on a motorcycle, snapped his thigh bone. But Frank wasn't the same for years. For him to come back to full form again, that's rough, man. Rough. So this is the other question about Conor. How much can he use? That left leg. His left leg snapped in half. Okay. And he. I. I see him kicking the bag and I see him doing all these things, and that's great, and I hope it's 100, but, I mean, I seen

[Joe Rogan]

Chris Wyman kicking Hector Lombard. They had a weird thing where I think it's only body punches and leg kicks. You see what I'm talking about?

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, the jiu jitsu thing in Russia, but it is. They do jiu jitsu today?

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Matt Serra]

They're allowed to leg kick and body punch.

[Joe Rogan]

It was the oddest thing.

[Matt Serra]

It's the weirdest thing I just saw.

[Joe Rogan]

Chris just kept kicking him and Hector was like, punching him in the neck. I'm like. I'm like, what the kind of rules is this?

[Matt Serra]

It's crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

I didn't know what. I was watching those.

[Matt Serra]

Those ones were the dudes, like, stand next to each other and just leg kick each other into submission.

[Jamie Varner]

Oh, yeah, that shit's pre nasty.

[Matt Serra]

Those are so, so. That's so crazy. Crazy.

[Joe Rogan]

Who does that?

[Matt Serra]

I don't know, man, but there's a lot of those videos.

[Jamie Varner]

It's almost as dumb as slap.

[Matt Serra]

Almost. I mean, kind of almost. Because, like, you could really ruin your life. You don't understand, like, Pedro Hizzo, like, one of those kind of guys.

[Joe Rogan]

Could you imagine, like, doing that with Pedro?

[Jamie Varner]

Look at the damage hiso did to Randleman's leg. Or that had a different vein pattern.

[Matt Serra]

Randy Couture. He got done with him was like six months for him to recover.

[Jamie Varner]

Two, Two. Two fights.

[Matt Serra]

What happened earlier this year. Not an MMA fight.

[Joe Rogan]

God damn it.

[Matt Serra]

A heavyweight fight. Oh, Jesus.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, to eat. Later, man. You're gonna make me sick.

[Matt Serra]

It's a horrible, horrible injury, man.

[Joe Rogan]

And I know how hard Chris kicks. Longo was like backstage, he was killing the pads. It was hard to hold him.

[Matt Serra]

That's such a great impression.

[Joe Rogan]

And then he went out there and Jesus.

[Matt Serra]

Rogan's making me feel better. Bad for being 68.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, yeah.

[Matt Serra]

He's telling me he's so funny.

[Joe Rogan]

And then he was asking about a peptide. I have to text him later.

[Jamie Varner]

He's. He's the best.

[Matt Serra]

He's. You two together, I swear to God. Should be a show.

[Jamie Varner]

Come on.

[Matt Serra]

It should be a show.

[Jamie Varner]

It's just follow him around.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, Just follow you guys around. Follow you to the pizza place. Be a great show. It'd be a great show. It really would. You get one of them Keeping up with Kardashians. People who know how to do a reality show filmed the two of you guys together hanging out, drinking coffee, talking, training fighters. Oh, yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Epic. I mean, don't wait too long. He's getting older.

[Matt Serra]

And also think about how many guys you've worked with, like these super high level guys like Aljo and Marab and, you know, just being with them and Weidman being with them at the ufcs.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Great show.

[Jamie Varner]

Kid me who's. Who's best to have mics on in the corner. Those two. Come on, guys.

[Matt Serra]

It's so funny.

[Joe Rogan]

I like that comedians are making comedies again. I'm looking at Harlem.

[Matt Serra]

This is Harlan Wayne. Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Williams.

[Matt Serra]

He put a gourd in his.

[Joe Rogan]

I love that guy. Oh, my God, the fake legs.

[Matt Serra]

He's so funny.

[Joe Rogan]

His movie, you know, I love movies. His movie wingman is. It's funny. It's funny.

[Matt Serra]

He's funny in everything he does.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, it's. It's. I miss those.

[Jamie Varner]

Him and Nasty.

[Joe Rogan]

Nasty. Yeah. You know what it is? These comedians are now funding it themselves. Like Theo Vaughn and David Spade did busboys.

[Jamie Varner]

Yes.

[Matt Serra]

And Tom Segura is doing a bunch.

[Jamie Varner]

Theo and David Spade did one together. Theo's real life Joe Dirt. So that's.

[Joe Rogan]

You know, I like that they're just doing it where they don't have to get. Okay.

[Matt Serra]

Exactly.

[Joe Rogan]

By anybody.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

And the other one I keep. I always.

[Jamie Varner]

And nobody's telling them what to do, how to.

[Joe Rogan]

How to, how to. In a cult. Had to start a cattle. Start A cult with the Greek guy, the heavy guy.

[Jamie Varner]

Is that.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah, dude, that's a funny one, dude.

[Joe Rogan]

That, that one's. That one made me laugh.

[Jamie Varner]

He's from Baltimore and he does a Baltimore Ravens fan. After every win or loss during the season, like, you have to see it because it's hilarious.

[Matt Serra]

Very funny, dude.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, man, I like this.

[Matt Serra]

It's a good time for comedy because this like pushback.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

You know, when there's pushback, then people get excited when someone doesn't give in to it and they make up, make their own. But if you want to try to make a comedy movie with a studio, you have to deal with so many people telling you what you can and can't say, you're way better off just doing it on your own. Like, they don't really know what funny is. They're trying to protect their job. They have a Mercedes, man.

[Jamie Varner]

They were cranking them out for a while there, like Talladega Nights. Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

But then Tropic Thunder, you know what happened? The Internet happened. People started complaining in real life, life, like, you know, it started. These morons online started affecting the way people view comedy.

[Jamie Varner]

So ridiculous.

[Matt Serra]

It's the meanwhile, it didn't affect the way we view violence, which is crazy. Like you could have a super hyper violent movie. Nobody has a problem now. It's the dumbest of all time. But if you have some crazy, like if you tried to make a movie like, like super bad hilarious to try to make that today.

[Joe Rogan]

Couldn't make it.

[Matt Serra]

You couldn't make it. Make it tell or Tropic Thunder.

[Jamie Varner]

Make Tropic Thunder. Make it Robert Downey Jr. Straight in blackface. Straight and black full. Come on.

[Matt Serra]

I, I asked him, I said, do you think Robert Downey Jr. I said, do you think you could make that movie today? He goes, oh, you could make.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, most of it.

[Jamie Varner]

Right.

[Joe Rogan]

80s comedies, guys trying to get literally made. I mean, the premise alone is not gonna make it right. You know what I mean?

[Matt Serra]

It's funny, man. It's like we're allow the most hyper violent movies and celebrate them. Oh, this is awesome. Like, I just watched Collateral again the other day.

[Jamie Varner]

Oh, what a love. That's an awesome movie.

[Matt Serra]

We watched a scene and the, in one of, the, one of the episodes we did, we watched that scene where it shoots those guys in the alley. And I got so into it. I need to watch that movie again.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah. Sick movie.

[Matt Serra]

But hyperventil, violent and a movie that everybody says is a wonderful movie.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, really good. But comedy.

[Matt Serra]

Really enjoyed it.

[Joe Rogan]

Let's make you laugh. But doesn't it like, isn't there like spoilers? Like, I don't want to spoil it. But like doesn't the other. Doesn't Jamie Foxx kill him or something at the end?

[Matt Serra]

Well, he dies.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean he dies somehow. But like, like kind of unbelievable that he kills the M assassin, the taxi driver.

[Matt Serra]

I think like he wanted to die. I think when you kill a bunch of people over a long period of time.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, it's one of those. It's deeper than that. Wait for your turn.

[Matt Serra]

Return. That was supposed to be Russell Crowe and Adam Sandler in that movie originally.

[Jamie Varner]

Are you serious?

[Matt Serra]

That's crazy.

[Jamie Varner]

Interesting.

[Matt Serra]

They should redo it.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, right. Yeah, that's interesting.

[Matt Serra]

I'll tell you what. Tom Cruise was good.

[Jamie Varner]

Phenomenal.

[Joe Rogan]

Well, he's pretty much good in there, dude.

[Jamie Varner]

They say they use that clip of him in that alley for training. Like CIA.

[Matt Serra]

Because it was sat clean. Do you know the scene?

[Joe Rogan]

No.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, one of my favorite scenes. I gotta watch Jamie pull it up. One of my favorite. One of my favorite scenes in any movie.

[Jamie Varner]

It's.

[Matt Serra]

I love a good tactical draw. Cuz I love. I love a guy who practices.

[Joe Rogan]

What's the. It's underrated. It's a. It's a live die repeat. It's.

[Matt Serra]

Yes, the Tom Cruz one.

[Joe Rogan]

It might have been called something else, but.

[Matt Serra]

Edge of Tomorrow.

[Joe Rogan]

What is it?

[Matt Serra]

Edge of Tomorrow. Yes.

[Jamie Varner]

Is that the. Kept coming back, Coming back.

[Matt Serra]

This is a scene so Jamie Fox is strapped to the car. He. He's. He's zip. Tied him to the steering wheel and took the keys. That's fine, but you can't have a bunch of guys trying to get laid. That's unrealistic. You're sending a bad message. So Spring break.

[Joe Rogan]

I never thought of it that way.

[Jamie Varner]

Actually.

[Matt Serra]

It's ridiculous.

[Joe Rogan]

The comedians like rebuttal to it, you know, to not being able to make the movies they want to make.

[Matt Serra]

Well, it's only empowered. The clubs, like clubs are packed. Yeah, Everybody wants. Because you go like you go to the mothership, you're gonna hear some wild shit. People want to laugh. They don't. Nobody. It doesn't mean. You mean what you're saying just.

[Joe Rogan]

Right, right, right.

[Jamie Varner]

It's calm. It's a joke.

[Matt Serra]

Bob Marley didn't really shoot the sheriff. Right. Okay. It's like what you're doing is around. We all know we've always been talking. Talking has been a natural part of humans. We talk, we joke around. And the idea that that's supposed to be up to someone's standards or someone else's parameters of what you can and can't talk.

[Jamie Varner]

You.

[Matt Serra]

You just don't go. Just don't go. Watch it.

[Jamie Varner]

Tom Brady roast kind of brought it. Brought it back in a big way.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. In a big way. Yeah. The Tom Brady rose, I think cracked the egg because that thing got like 55 million views on Netflix alone, like within the first week.

[Jamie Varner]

Joe, can I water, please?

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Are people still getting canceled now? I think it's kind of passed.

[Matt Serra]

I think it doesn't work. You can't.

[Joe Rogan]

Because everybody could just.

[Matt Serra]

People get.

[Joe Rogan]

Put your own stuff on.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

You can just do your own stuff.

[Matt Serra]

Well, it's also when people get canceled, people just flock to those people now. It like makes them more popular.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

You know, every. Look at Common Kanye. Kanye is selling out the biggest places in the world doing pop up shows. Yeah, he's doing arena pop up shows.

[Joe Rogan]

He did one in Miami a couple weeks ago. My son went to it.

[Matt Serra]

He's doing one this weekend in San Antonio.

[Joe Rogan]

Really?

[Matt Serra]

Just pop up show. Tony Hinchcliffe just went to the one in Tampa. He said it was insane.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

This is the greatest show he's ever seen in his life. He's on top of a world. He's standing on top of a globe.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

And like it's spinning while he's up there doing two and a half hours of bangers.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Like you. You realize. Tony goes. You realize how many hits this guy has?

[Jamie Varner]

Who is it?

[Matt Serra]

Kanye. Otherwise known as. Yay.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah, that's right. Easy.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. No one wants to do a versus battle against Kanye. He's gonna eat you up.

[Matt Serra]

He's so prolific. Yeah, it's. And like Tony said, every aspect of the show he produced, so every sound has a. Like a purpose. Every lighting effect. It's all coordinated. He said it's amazing.

[Joe Rogan]

He's like a genius. He's a genius.

[Matt Serra]

Legit crazy is a shithouse rat. It's like that's how you have to.

[Jamie Varner]

He's out there. I mean. But Most creative people, 100, you know, you don't come from a different.

[Matt Serra]

You don't get that good by being normal.

[Joe Rogan]

Right.

[Matt Serra]

Like, he's too good.

[Joe Rogan]

But I mean, normal's overrated.

[Matt Serra]

The guy comes back from wearing a diamond encrusted swastika to selling out the biggest arenas in the world. He has a song called Heil Hitler Hitler. A year later, he's selling out the biggest arenas in the world, like instantaneously. You know, wild that he's the goat. Like no one's even close. He's like, one of the greatest performers of all time.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Like, no one's even close. Like, with the stuff that he does. Like, you can compare it to his contemporaries. Like, he's. He's out on.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah, he's.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, he's so far ahead of everybody else out there.

[Jamie Varner]

Prince was like that, too, as all the hits he had and all the hits he's written for people.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Jamie Varner]

When that Freddie Gray happened in Baltimore, he called the city and wanted to do, like, a benefit concert or whatever, and I was able to go to it. And at one point on the stage, he's doing all these songs, and he goes, God damn, I forgot all the good. And then he kept going. But the best story was on soundcheck. Like, he tunes Everything's got to be the way he wants it. And Jay Z, Beyonce, and somebody else. I don't know who the third person was, but they were going to come and be part of it. So they asked him if he could come. He's like, yeah, sure. So when they came, they started to go on stage for sound check, and a friend of mine at the building said, Prince, like, whoa, what are you doing up on the stage? And they're like, oh, you know, we want to get our straight. And he goes, no, this is my. You want to come and be a part of it, fine. If not, get the. Off the stage.

[Matt Serra]

Whoa.

[Jamie Varner]

And they, you know, they walked and. And left and got out of there,

[Matt Serra]

but, well, you got to be careful with other stars because they do like the metal.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

I went like this.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah. And that dude, you know, was getting done how he wanted it done.

[Matt Serra]

100. It has to be. He was too good.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah, he's a genius. I remember guitar solo he did at the Rock and Roll hall of Fame.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, my God. He could do anything. Yeah, he could play any musical instrument. He used to play all the musical instruments. Instruments.

[Joe Rogan]

Did you.

[Jamie Varner]

And he could play basketball.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. Did you watch that Michael Jackson?

[Matt Serra]

I did.

[Joe Rogan]

I saw it. Did you watch it? I did, yeah. How was it? I thought it was good. Ray liked it. You didn't.

[Matt Serra]

You didn't see it yet?

[Joe Rogan]

I didn't see it. Oh, it's good. No, it's good. Watched it. And then he told. Nobody told me. I mean, it's a good thing. I guess after he's seen it, he goes, he didn't touch any kids. Oh. Tell you right now, he didn't. Didn't touch anything. So I'm like, let long go. That's All I want to know your thoughts on it.

[Matt Serra]

That's hilarious.

[Joe Rogan]

No, if cuz like my son was up. Yeah, his father's all up. No, it's a good movie. And the guy who played it, his nephew nailed it. Yeah, man, nailed my. My family loved it. My wife, my kids, they loved it. I didn't see it though.

[Matt Serra]

It's a cautionary tale. The Michael Jackson story is like when kids get that famous no one can handle. That's what that is.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, yeah.

[Matt Serra]

There's also the weirdness of the doctor saying that he was chemically castrated. His doctor. The same guy that killed him. The same guy that killed him with the profanol. The guy that put him to sleep with anesthesia. That guy said that when he was young, his father chemically castrated him to preserve his voice.

[Joe Rogan]

Are you serious? They didn't get into that part.

[Matt Serra]

Which totally makes sense when you look at him in comparison to all the other guys in his family. He's really thin. Like he has no testosterone.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah, I never really thought about.

[Matt Serra]

All the brothers are all big. They're men like you look at Jermaine. They're big men. He's really thin and he kept that high pitched voice. Like when you listen to some of his like human nature. Listen to human nature. Like that voice is insane.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

We can't play it on the show, but Jamie, play Human Nature by Michael Jackson real quick.

[Joe Rogan]

Why did, why did Varus get plump on Game of Thrones when he cut off his balls?

[Matt Serra]

Well, I don't think that was real. You can still get fat, but you can't. You, you know, you don't get muscle. Like you don't have any testosterone. It's gone.

[Jamie Varner]

You probably weren't feeding that guy either to keep him thin so he could dance.

[Joe Rogan]

Right? Oh, man.

[Matt Serra]

Well, also he's probably performing every night.

[Jamie Varner]

Every night.

[Matt Serra]

So he's burning off tons of cow. If they put a Fitbit on that dude. The amount of steps that he's taken,

[Jamie Varner]

dude, it's pretty crazy. Like a front man for a band. The Run and they're doing. Here we go.

[Matt Serra]

We're going to play this so song Human Nature. Oh, the official music video. Oh, man, that voice. You. I don't think you get that voice from a man. No, but how do you a regular man that has chemically castry somebody? The same way that they do it with puberty blockers that they use on kids pills and stuff. Like. No, like when you're. When they do puberty blockers, that's what Puberty blockers do.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

What they're doing is they're just blocking all of your testosterone production. Production. And so they used to do it to criminals. So if they had a sex offender that was.

[Joe Rogan]

I'm all for that.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah.

[Joe Rogan]

Chop dead dicks off.

[Jamie Varner]

Just eliminate.

[Matt Serra]

We just eliminate them. Yeah, they should be eliminated. But the. The chemically castration thing they used to do with opera singers. They called them castratos, but not chemically castrated. They used to use a knife. They used to chop their balls off when they were young so that they could sing like. Like a woman. It was a very haunting. Like, there's only one recording of a castrato that's from, like, Jimmy. What was it from, like the 1800s.

[Jamie Varner]

Really?

[Matt Serra]

There's one recording of a guy singing that. That had no balls. And then they do it to them when they're really young. They do it to them when they're kids.

[Joe Rogan]

No kidding.

[Matt Serra]

Yeah. Like your family sells you off to some opera and they slice your balls off and keep you that way forever, man.

[Joe Rogan]

Crazy. Damn.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

And the sound. See, find that castrato recording. The sound is haunting, man. You hear the guy singing and he creeps you out. You're like, oh, my God. This guy was a little boy, and they cut his balls off so he could sing like this.

[Joe Rogan]

Oh, that's so.

[Matt Serra]

Ugh.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

And I think that's what they did to Michael Jackson. At least that's what the doctor says. It makes sense.

[Joe Rogan]

I mean, it makes sense, like even watching the movie. How hard his father was on him and how much he demanded. Demanded of him. Oh, man, you're gonna creep us out now.

[Matt Serra]

Listen to this guy's voice. Okay,

[Joe Rogan]

that's depressing.

[Matt Serra]

But we know that that was an actual process. That was an actual practice that really did chop boys balls off so they could sing better.

[Jamie Varner]

Went from happy human nature to sounding like some funny was dying.

[Matt Serra]

I know it's really nuts if you think about the horrible things that people are willing to do. It's not disproving it or anything.

[Joe Rogan]

It's just a guy.

[Matt Serra]

Guy saying he went to search where

[Joe Rogan]

they were doing it.

[Matt Serra]

I think he said he was having very trouble, a lot of trouble, finding a lot of information about pastratos.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

And where they did it or how they did it, but they hide that.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Jamie Varner]

I was chopping nuts.

[Matt Serra]

Oh, yeah. Let me take you to the lab.

[Jamie Varner]

We'll show you what we do with the balls.

[Joe Rogan]

Are you doing those peptides?

[Matt Serra]

Many eunuchs were castrated after puberty. And Thus, castration had no effect on their voices. Oh, that's a unicorn. Munich, though. Well, that's just after puberty, then.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah, Right?

[Matt Serra]

So you got to catch them young.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah, right.

[Matt Serra]

You got to catch them before they. They grow their nuts. That's so horrible. It says it goes back to 400 AD, but, boy, Constantinople, boy.

[Joe Rogan]

Who.

[Matt Serra]

Who's who came up with that idea? I have an idea. I mean, how many of them died

[Jamie Varner]

from infection from getting their nuts chopped off?

[Matt Serra]

You know, probably a lot. You know, back then, they didn't even know what cooties were. They had no idea.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah. They didn't clean tonight. Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

No. Disgusting. It started off with as a punishment. It wasn't a choice. And then they realized these guys sing really nice in prison. It's kind of cool. They sing in the shower. I really like it.

[Joe Rogan]

Mine.

[Matt Serra]

Gentlemen, this is a lot of fun. We always have such a good time.

[Jamie Varner]

Hell, yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Matt, how you. How you feeling?

[Joe Rogan]

What are you talking. Why me? Because why out of everybody, 100 milligrams.

[Matt Serra]

Hey, you're right.

[Joe Rogan]

Handle like a boss.

[Matt Serra]

Like a boss. Your eyes are a little thin. I was gonna really say

[Jamie Varner]

right now. My Italian pisan.

[Matt Serra]

Guys, you handled it.

[Joe Rogan]

I had a great time. Time.

[Matt Serra]

It's always fun. Let's go eat. Let's go eat. Is it Italian Wolf? We can go wherever.

[Jamie Varner]

Whatever.

[Joe Rogan]

Did you want to do Italian?

[Matt Serra]

Let's. Let's cut this off. Matt, Sarah. Brazilian Jiu jitsu channel on YouTube. That, too.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

And you can actually train at Matt's gym.

[Joe Rogan]

Yeah, you can come there, too, but subscribe to that thing.

[Matt Serra]

Subscribe to that.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Control.

[Jamie Varner]

Yep. GroundControlUSA.com has all the locations. We just opened in Stuart, Florida, Florida. And ShogunFights.com next show is November 14th.

[Matt Serra]

Dean Thomas, fight expert slash movie producer.

[Joe Rogan]

Deep Waters every Monday. Myself, Jorge Masvidal, Chris Weidman, and Dustin Poirier. Monday at noon, Deep Waters on Paramount plus.

[Matt Serra]

And your film.

[Joe Rogan]

And my film, Flowers. It's coming out soon.

[Jamie Varner]

Good one.

[Joe Rogan]

I loved it.

[Jamie Varner]

Yeah. I loved it.

[Joe Rogan]

I seen it. I loved it.

[Jamie Varner]

Phenomenal ending. Yeah.

[Matt Serra]

Gentlemen, we did it. Another one. Thank you, guys. Bye, everybody.