Brian Wilson: COCAINE & HAMBURGERS

Summary

Podcast Summary: Jokermen - Episode: Brian Wilson: COCAINE & HAMBURGERS

Release Date: July 21, 2025

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1. Introduction to the Episode

In this enlightening episode of the Jokermen podcast, host Mike Love delves deep into the tumultuous period of Brian Wilson's life during the early 1980s. Titled "Brian Wilson: COCAINE & HAMBURGERS," the episode offers listeners a comprehensive exploration of Wilson's personal struggles, creative endeavors, and the intricate dynamics within the Beach Boys during this challenging era.

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2. The Beach Boys in the Early 1980s

Mike Love sets the stage by contextualizing the Beach Boys' state in the early '80s. The band was grappling with internal tensions, particularly between the Wilson brothers and other members. This period was marked by declining concert performances and a struggle to produce fresh material that resonated with audiences.

Quote:

[02:56] Mike Love: "We saw beautiful stuff just the other day coming out of the Brian Wilson memorial service down there in Los Angeles."

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3. Brian and Dennis Wilson's Struggles

Central to the episode is the exploration of Brian Wilson's and his brother Dennis Wilson's personal battles. Both were entangled in substance abuse, which severely impacted their relationship with the band and their creative output.

Quote:

[20:39] Brian Wilson: "Yes, they are abusing themselves chronically."

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4. Secret Recording Sessions: ‘Cocaine & Hamburgers’

One of the most intriguing segments discussed is the clandestine recording sessions known as the "Cocaine & Hamburgers" or "Cocaine Sessions." These sessions, held in Brian and Dennis's Venice Beach apartment, were characterized by a mix of creativity and self-destruction. Despite the poor recording quality, these sessions produced some of the most heartfelt and raw music from the brothers.

Quote:

[37:45] Brian Wilson: "Yeah, there is nothing else, really. Not really. I mean, basically, this is kind of the great lost song of Brian and the Beach Boys music world at large."

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5. Interactions with Band Members and Management

The episode sheds light on the strained relationships between Brian, Dennis, and other Beach Boys members. Management and bandmates often blamed Dennis for Brian's relapses, despite Dennis's role in supporting Brian during their secret sessions.

Quote:

[21:43] Mike Love: "Whenever certain members of the beach boys clan found out that Brian was sequestered with Dennis, they would come and take him away, literally slamming the door on the creative process."

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6. Dr. Eugene Landy's Intervention

A significant turning point discussed is the reintroduction of Dr. Eugene Landy into Brian's life. Landy, a controversial psychiatrist, was brought in under the guise of helping Brian but ended up exerting immense control over him, both personally and financially.

Quote:

[64:28] Mike Love: "Landy now had the opportunity, as he put it, to complete his canvas."

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7. Impact on Brian Wilson

Landy's involvement led to drastic changes in Brian's life, including relocating him to Malibu and imposing strict regimens that further isolated Brian from his family and the rest of the band. This period marked the beginning of a complex and often unhealthy dependency between Brian and Landy.

Quote:

[70:09] Mike Love: "By March 1983, Brian was back in Los Angeles, some 40 pounds thinner. Landy moved him into one of the largest homes in Malibu."

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8. Reflections and Comparisons

Mike Love and Brian Wilson reflect on the parallels between Brian's situation and broader societal issues, drawing comparisons to political dynamics and personal freedom. They discuss the tragic nature of Brian's struggles and the missed opportunities for genuine support and understanding.

Quote:

[28:03] Brian Wilson: "It reminds me of, like, the Democrats, like, the Democratic Party, like, the way that everything seems to work now."

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9. Musical Analysis: 'Oh Lord' and 'City Blues'

The hosts delve into specific tracks from the "Cocaine & Hamburgers" sessions, particularly highlighting "Oh Lord" and "City Blues." They analyze the raw emotion and unpolished sound of these recordings, emphasizing their departure from the classic Beach Boys' style and their own unique artistic expression.

Quote:

[50:54] Brian Wilson: "Oh Lord thing is just. There's something so poignant about it, about this thing of Brian and Dennis, like the two wounded warriors of the Beach Boys."

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10. Brian’s Personal Life and Behavior

Detailed anecdotes reveal Brian's deteriorating physical and mental health. Stories about his excessive eating, erratic behavior, and strained relationships with Carolyn Williams paint a vivid picture of his state during this period.

Quote:

[47:05] Brian Wilson: "Like, you have this broad type, big and tall. Like you're fat, but you're also just so long that it's sort of like something, something happens there where nature itself gets confused."

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11. Conclusion: The Turning Point and Future Prospects

The episode concludes by discussing the inevitability of change in Brian's life. With Landy's increasing control and the band's continued separation from the Wilson brothers, the future looked bleak. However, there remains a glimmer of hope that Brian's creative spirit might find a way to flourish despite the oppressive circumstances.

Quote:

[73:32] Brian Wilson: "You hear that? And that's... That's just the innocent, pure, beautiful heart of the man. Just excited that he kind of came up spur the moment with yet another Brian Wilson number."

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Key Takeaways:

• The early 1980s were a dark period for Brian Wilson and the Beach Boys, marked by personal struggles and creative frustrations.
• Secret recording sessions between Brian and Dennis showcased their remaining creative synergy amidst chaos.
• Dr. Eugene Landy's controversial intervention significantly impacted Brian's life, leading to increased isolation and control.
• Despite the turmoil, the raw and unguarded moments captured in the recordings offer a poignant glimpse into Brian Wilson's enduring artistic spirit.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• [20:39] "Yes, they are abusing themselves chronically." — Brian Wilson
• [37:45] "Yeah, there is nothing else, really..." — Brian Wilson
• [64:28] "Landy now had the opportunity, as he put it, to complete his canvas." — Mike Love
• [73:32] "You hear that? And that's... That's just the innocent, pure, beautiful heart of the man." — Brian Wilson

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This episode of Jokermen provides a thorough and emotionally charged examination of a pivotal moment in Brian Wilson's life, blending personal anecdotes with critical analysis to offer listeners a nuanced understanding of the man behind the music.

Transcript

[Brian Wilson]

Join the human race. Well, we're doing two shows. We'll be back at about 10, 9, about 10 o' clock and then we'll be back at 12:30.

[Mike Love]

Will you be back.

[Brian Wilson]

Coming back here after the first show then? Yeah. Okay. We're gonna go to the first show. Oh, yeah. Can we come back and see you after the first show? Sure. Okay, drop by, we'll wrap. Please do some more talking. Thanks, Brian. Thank you. We get into just hanging out, right? Yeah, yeah. You gonna smoke cocaine?

[Mike Love]

I only smoke a little dope once in a while.

[Brian Wilson]

Oh, yeah? Just checking. Welcome to Cocaine Report, where we try different. Different cocaine types.

[Mike Love]

I didn't get the memo on this one.

[Brian Wilson]

We're freebasing next time. I guess this time we're going with classic. We're going with classic cocaine and then we'll do crack.

[Mike Love]

This is all on you. I failed to.

[Brian Wilson]

I'll procure. I'll send you some.

[Mike Love]

Okay.

[Brian Wilson]

Which one of our Patreon supporters is in the mule tier where you get free Jokerman for life, but you have to be a drug mule for Jokerman also?

[Mike Love]

Yeah, we're rolling that out. What an inos. Auspicious beginning to the Brian Wilson. The Brian Wilson segment of Jokerman 3.

[Brian Wilson]

Yeah, yeah. I mean inauspicious or auspicious, I would say.

[Mike Love]

Semi specious.

[Brian Wilson]

You got to start from the bottom. You got to start where you are. And this is where we find Brian in 1981.

[Mike Love]

That's right thereabouts. 1980. 81. 82.

[Brian Wilson]

Sort of.

[Mike Love]

Sort of hazy time period. Just generally years.

[Brian Wilson]

Hazy recording, too.

[Mike Love]

Yes. Yeah. Fits a recording. This will be. Yeah, this is. This is. We'll see how this goes. I think we're gonna have some more sort of story time on this one like we've had on some of the previous episodes, you know, Bad Vibrations and It's not okay and so on, because there's some story to talk about. But there's also this recording commonly known as either the Cocaine Sessions, the Hamburger Sessions, you know, whatever you want to call it. These home tapes from Brian and Dennis around this time. This is the third in the triptych of what was going on with solo production in 1981 with Beach Boyle as artists. Begun with Mike. Looking Back with Love. Continued on by Carl with the first Carl record. Both of which obviously. Dog, we'll see what these. What. What Brian and Dennis were cooking up during this.

[Brian Wilson]

At least at the end with that interview.

[Mike Love]

So funny interview.

[Brian Wilson]

Loosely using that word.

[Mike Love]

I love those guys.

[Brian Wilson]

Those guys are. Those are sweet. Guys, whoever they are. But during that, Brian says he doesn't believe in the concept of doing a solo album.

[Mike Love]

It's true.

[Brian Wilson]

And he also is quite candid about his feelings about the. The Carl album.

[Mike Love]

I like two songs.

[Brian Wilson]

I like two songs.

[Mike Love]

Heaven and I can't remember the other one. That's. I mean, frankly, he's probably right about that. Maybe he was thinking about the Grammy on the other one. Yeah, it's not. It's not. We're not at Brian Wilson. You know, Brian Wilson, the solo deb quite yet. But it is, you know, it is kind of the beginning of the second half of this saga here. Obviously just a couple weeks now following following Brian's passing. We saw beautiful stuff just the other day coming out of the Brian Wilson memorial service down there in Los Angeles. A beautiful. Looked like a white piano overflowing with flowers and stuff.

[Brian Wilson]

It's a white piano inside of a sandbox.

[Mike Love]

Yes. And there were a bunch of little like smile. Like, I think the napkins were like embossed with the smile logo and they had like cupcakes with smile on it. Of course, the Mike and Van Dyke Mike. Van Van Mike.

[Brian Wilson]

That, that photograph.

[Mike Love]

I mean, that picture instantly iconic.

[Brian Wilson]

And a lot of people were, you know, quick to shoot their darts at.

[Mike Love]

Old Mike, but no longer Cool Mike, now old Mike.

[Brian Wilson]

Old Mike.

[Mike Love]

He really is old Mike now.

[Brian Wilson]

He is any way you slice it. But I thought it was nice that he was wearing. People were like, wear a fucking suit. Show some respect. But he was wearing the Pendleton shirt. A Pendleton at least, like Pendleton style shirt. As close as you could get.

[Mike Love]

I'm sure it was a real Pendleton. I think they even re released that because it looked like that was the Pendleton shirt.

[Brian Wilson]

It was like slightly different.

[Mike Love]

I'm pretty sure that Pendleton did like a Beach Boys collab over at some point in the last couple years where they re released that shirt or a version of that shirt.

[Brian Wilson]

Something similar. Yeah, yeah, Blue Pendleton. Anyway, it's like. Like the type that they're wearing on the COVID of Surf and Safari.

[Mike Love]

I was surprised not to see, you know, it was sort of strange to see Van Dyke Parks not in his bibs for once. He looked. He looked fly. Yeah, Overalls.

[Brian Wilson]

That was overalls. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Mike Love]

He could have worn like a, you know, oxford button down just beneath. That's actually literally what he wears over underneath.

[Brian Wilson]

That is what he wears. He wears like a tuxedo shirt under overalls. It's iconic.

[Mike Love]

He was looking good, you know, anyways, great. Just it seemed like it Was a beautiful perform. You know, beautiful afternoon. I think that looked like Carney and Wendy, like, performed for him. Al, I think was there performing some songs.

[Brian Wilson]

There's a whole band playing Be My Baby.

[Mike Love]

Yep.

[Brian Wilson]

Which was great.

[Mike Love]

I'm glad that, you know, the big man has gotten to go out in style as he should. A life well lived. And, you know, I think the Van Dyke Mike burying the hatchet here, maybe. I guess Van Dyke Parks was liking all the rude comments in his Instagram.

[Brian Wilson]

But his comment or his.

[Mike Love]

What did he say, like, peace in the Valley or something like that?

[Brian Wilson]

It was nice having peace in the valley with. Yeah, it was, you know, it was sweet. Overall. It was sweet. And, you know, I like to think that there is some goodwill anyway, even if there isn't.

[Mike Love]

It's all water under the bridge at this point. Now that, you know, everyone is dead or about to die, you can only hold those grudges for so long. So it's good to see.

[Brian Wilson]

Yeah, well put.

[Mike Love]

There's no two ways about it. Well, let's travel back, like we said, to a point in time when no one was dead yet. How's that for a segue?

[Brian Wilson]

Maybe they wished they were.

[Mike Love]

Yeah, well, one of them was about to be.

[Brian Wilson]

Gosh.

[Mike Love]

Yeah. So, yeah, we're kicking off, you know, our Brian Wilson segment of the program. Now. It's still gonna be a little bit of time before we really get into the music proper, but I think this will be the first episode that is just Brian Wilson colon, you know, whatever we end up calling it. And it could not be, I guess, better timed because it's a story worth telling and wrestling with. I wanted to just do a little bit of recap here before we get into 1981, just so that everyone to sort of set the stage for you and the listeners out there so we could remember kind of where we're coming from and where we're at at this moment in time. Is that okay?

[Brian Wilson]

Of course.

[Mike Love]

I'm gonna crack my. I've got a liquid death root beer wrath here. Gotta settle in.

[Brian Wilson]

You've got the. Yeah, nice. I'm drinking Kirkland sparkling water.

[Mike Love]

Oh, like the. The knockoff lacroix stuff.

[Brian Wilson]

Yeah. Kirkland lemon sparkling water.

[Mike Love]

I think it's just Lacroix in the Kirkland can.

[Brian Wilson]

It's.

[Mike Love]

It's something similar, beautiful 1976. Start there. Brian's back.

[Brian Wilson]

They say that Brian is back.

[Mike Love]

That's right.

[Brian Wilson]

I forget how that. Is that how it goes, bruh?

[Mike Love]

And still they say that he's back. Big drummed up publicity stunt, obviously. The 15 big ones record, the big tour there during the bicentennial year. The Beach Boys are back and better than ever. You know, asterisk, asterisk. Some great songs on the 15 big ones record, obviously, you know, maybe some less. Less so big, you know, some. Some big ones and some small ones. I think things can just be big.

[Brian Wilson]

You know, without making a value judgment.

[Mike Love]

I guess that's true, yeah.

[Brian Wilson]

Fifteen Big Ones.

[Mike Love]

They are big.

[Brian Wilson]

You could be talking about morbid obesity. You could be talking about atomic bombs, death tolls or big Junes or huge tunes. Yeah, Big Ones as in songs by the Beach Boys.

[Mike Love]

That's all. That's all there. That's all in that record. And then, you know, so it's getting off the ground. Semi successful there. Brian, obviously sort of shaky ground to get started, but he, you know, he does it. He gets back. He's back on Stage and then 1977 writes and records one of the great records, the Beach Boys Love youe, virtually on his own with, you know, some assistance from Carl and Dennis. Mike and Al are kind of brought in after the fact on the end. Universally lauded in the critical press at the time. People recognized, I think that was a great record.

[Brian Wilson]

Real ones knew that's right.

[Mike Love]

But the fake ones did not so. Did not sell so well. Mike, obviously, and even Al, I think, not so fond of it, nor was the record company. And so the adult child record, Brian's sequel to that album, also written, recorded 1977, that gets shelved, gets the kibosh, gets put up in the attic.

[Brian Wilson]

It gets aborted. It gets like a late term. Like. It's like the type of abortion where, like, the baby's born, actually.

[Mike Love]

Yes.

[Brian Wilson]

And then they kill it.

[Mike Love]

Yeah. Which is not an abortion.

[Brian Wilson]

It's like the. It's like in 300. It's like when they. What they do with the. The weak babies that are not fit to be Spartan warriors, but they throw them off of a cliff.

[Mike Love]

But like that homunculus from 300 who was, I think, one of those babies, but ended up coming, you know.

[Brian Wilson]

Right. Yeah.

[Mike Love]

Back, you know, after the fact, to ally with the Persian king. Adult child. I think we'll see the light of.

[Brian Wilson]

Day with the Persian king of current day, Al Jardin.

[Mike Love]

Al Jardine. Oh, man. Persian Al Jardine.

[Brian Wilson]

My favorite character. The deformed guy from 300.

[Mike Love]

Jeez, this is a tortured metaphor if I've ever heard one. So 1978, follow up there. Mike has taken control. Dennis and Carl have split off onto one side of the group, Mike and. Or on the other. Remember we went through the, you know, the free livers versus the meditators or whatever. The TMers and the TMers pull out the win, take control of the group.

[Brian Wilson]

You got the Transcendental Meditators and the Transcendental Medicators.

[Mike Love]

Yes. There you go. Hey, amen, brother. They import Brian to Fairfield, Iowa, at the beautiful Maharishi International University beloved campus and make the MIU record where Brian.

[Brian Wilson]

Is having just like flat out the worst time of his life.

[Mike Love]

As you hear again on this very frankly, very candid interview from this tape. He just says like, nah, I didn't like the MIU record. I hated it. I was in a terrible state of mind.

[Brian Wilson]

That's never really been a weakness. He's not somebody who is very. I would describe as intensely private.

[Mike Love]

I guess that's a good point. Yeah. You know, maybe. Maybe a little more candor could have served him well at certain points.

[Brian Wilson]

Yeah. But he's just like, no, I was in a really bad place. I was having a bad time. I didn't like that at all. Yeah, I didn't like that whole bag at all.

[Mike Love]

You can hear it in the record, which, you know, ups and downs, certainly whatever we might think of Bells of.

[Brian Wilson]

Paris playing like ping pong in like an empty school for meditation rec center in the middle of dead of winter. Yeah.

[Mike Love]

With one. One good restaurant in the entire town.

[Brian Wilson]

It's just like the part in the Shining where he's like throwing that ball against the wall.

[Mike Love]

Yeah, he's probably playing ping pong like on half a table with the. The other half of the table's flipped up just playing it with himself. 1979 Light Album, LA Parentheses Light Album.

[Brian Wilson]

I was just thinking more about Brian in the Shining. You go over to the typewriter and it just says, be my baby, be my baby. Be my baby, be my baby. Anyway, go on. That's all for now.

[Mike Love]

Next record not so much better in terms of the mood and spirit of things, obviously. He comes off of this disastrous Australian tour that we reviewed in the Light album episode where he attempted, I guess he was stoning heroin with Dennis and attempted a barbiturates overdose. Came home and promptly went on a multi day bender down in Tijuana and San Diego and then was institutionalized after being found in the gutter in his dirty white pants as soon as he gets out of the hospital, is imported directly to Miami where the Beach Boys are shacked up making this record, their first for cbs and also, you know, not so Fondly remembered. Although, you know, there's some good tunes on there. And then 1980, you know, keep the Summer Alive. Carl has rigged up this big, magical mystery studio, attempting to transport Brian back to the summer of 1965 and make him believe that the previous 15 years of his life had never happened in order to conjure something out of him which apparently worked for about two or three days and then, you know, fell apart rapidly. You can really hear that in that record. And then, you know, 1981, which is where we kind of find ourselves now. Carl has gone off on his own. Mike has gone off on his own. The Beach Boys are still playing concerts, but they're notoriously bad. These are some of the worst concerts ever performed by the Beach Boys, apparently. Sometimes it's only Mike, Al, Bruce and, you know, Hired Guns. They can't even get any Wilson Brothers up on the stage, depending on what state of mind Brian and Dennis are in. And that's where. That's where we're at here at this moment in time. So, you know, I think clear, just from a quick little rundown, you know, not necessarily the most triumphant five years of Brian's life at this point, you know, I do.

[Brian Wilson]

Yeah, I know.

[Mike Love]

Which, on that note, we can start telling a little bit of the story around this time here. We'll start with. Start with our friend David Leif, always a good man to, you know, tell it like it is. Shoot from the hip. I've got a little more color to offer from our friend Stephen Gaines and John Stebbins, I believe, the author of the Dennis Wilson Real Beach Boy biography. But we'll get there in due time. David tells us. Like an old mule on a Dust bowl farm, the beach boys of 1981 blindly plowed ahead and if nothing else, must be credited for surviving this career. Codetta. Brian and Dennis were more and more drawn into a downward spiral at this time. Their presence fulfilled contractual obligations, but little else. As 1982 began, both were showing the effects of uncontrolled intake, be it of food, alcohol or drugs. In the midst of their personal crises, Brian and Dennis worked in the studio in brief but productive bursts. While nothing has been released from those sessions, in fact, little was completed. The brothers displayed a heartfelt propensity to create as a team outside of the Beach Boys for a vaporous moment. The tantalizing prospect of a Wilson Brothers album was an unspoken possibility. But it disappeared in that same wisp. He's writing about these sessions at this moment in time, which I guess is a good way to think about it, to begin, is like the concept of a Wilson brothers record, I guess. Which, again, I don't think anyone ever sat down and decided this is the direction we're going in. But it is notable that even in the midst of this, you know, kind of disastrous period of everyone's life, Brian and Dennis are still interested in and able to sit down and record some music, some of which, frankly, I think is. Is really quite beautiful. I don't know. I don't know. It's. It's. Well, I guess we'll talk about it more when we talk about the recordings in a few minutes. But it's. It's a very different kind of sound, what was happening in the studio. And some of that, you know, you gotta chalk up to the fact that it's just like these tapes that sound like they're being played through an underwater tape machine or something. But it doesn't sound anything like keeping the summer alive, you know?

[Brian Wilson]

Yeah, no, it's completely different. One example in particular is, like, I think the standout thing here. Yes, we'll get there. We'll get to it.

[Mike Love]

We will get there. Moving along, John Stebbins again, the real Beach Boy. Dennis Wilson. Biography tells us Brian and Dennis were holding secret sess. You know, I guess we'll. I don't know how secret things necessarily were or if they just weren't telling people.

[Brian Wilson]

What does that mean? I mean, they're just not.

[Mike Love]

Yeah, they're not invited. No one's invited. Cool guys only. Yeah. Secret sessions at Village Recorders during this period of time, committing to tape some songs they had written together at the Venice beach apartment of their friend Garby Leone. Garby, Garby. G, A, R, B, Y, Space, L, E, O.

[Brian Wilson]

People used to use names, you know, people had real names.

[Mike Love]

Garby. The productivity of this collabor seems to have been very limited. Although one unreleased gem, which we'll get to, gives us a sense of the musical terrain the two talented brothers were exploring. Brian covered lead vocals. Dennis played keyboards and produced. And the result is troubling but beautiful material displaying such depth of feeling stood little chance of being accepted into the Beach Boys repertoire. If it didn't mention Fun or son. Then Mike and the others blew it off. Which is true. Those who knew of the sessions at Leon's, Lyons, Garbie's and at Village Recorders, however, worried about the quantity of drugs that were being consumed during them, which might be, I guess, part of the reason these sessions were secret. Some of the Beach Boys had long blamed Dennis for Brian's frequent relapses. But those who witnessed their interaction at those secret recording sessions remember it differently. A close friend of Dennis's remarks, Brian would chastise. Brian would chastise Dennis for his drinking and then lean over and snort a huge line of cocaine. He'd be. Brian would be smoking a cigarette and a joint at the same time and then be telling Dennis he shouldn't drink. Dennis would actually offer his brother hamburgers as an enticement to stay and work on their music. But as far as drugs went, neither Brian nor Dennis needed any encouragement. They were always more than ready to ingest whatever was available. Which, you know, I think for whatever we want to say about this music and how beautiful or interesting it might be on tape, it certainly can't be denied that putting the two of these characters together alone at this moment in time Is probably going to lead to some negative behavior taking place.

[Brian Wilson]

Yes, they are abusing themselves chronically.

[Mike Love]

It's like, it's safe to say. Yeah, it's. I mean, it is very, very much like a Laurel and Hardy situation. You know, Laurel would always be smoking.

[Brian Wilson]

A spliff and doing a wine and coke, and Hardy would be drinking four shots. Yeah. Did you mean something else?

[Mike Love]

I was going for, like, Brian is sort of big and fat at this moment in time, and Dennis is still kind of slender, but. Yeah, you know.

[Brian Wilson]

Well, I don't know if he. He's slender, but, like, he's probably, like, puffy.

[Mike Love]

He's puff. He's puffing up. Yeah.

[Brian Wilson]

Entire body inflamed.

[Mike Love]

Yeah. Just a deep, dark red. And not only from the sun. Over the next couple years, no effort was spared to keep Brian and Dennis apart. Who knows what might have developed had the two been able to pool their remaining resources and reach for a new place. I remember the two of them playing so beautifully together and really enjoying each other's company, Says Trisha roach campo. On the note of people with names don't.

[Brian Wilson]

Is roach in quotation marks?

[Mike Love]

Nope. That's just three names. Trisha roach Campo.

[Brian Wilson]

All right.

[Mike Love]

I thought to myself, Trisha said, my God, it might not be the best environment for Brian health wise. But as far as what was going on musically, you can't fucking beat that. Yet. Whenever certain members of the beach boys clan found out that Brian was sequestered with Dennis, they would come and take him away, Literally slamming the door on the creative process. Simply put, Dennis provided Brian with a natural outlet for his art, While the others pressured him to churn out more hits. When they were together, Brian and Dennis were two kids from Hawthorne sitting in the backseat of their father's car, just singing and having fun. But the moment they tried to carry their ideas into the recording studio, the plug would be pulled. So you've got this kind of situation at this moment in time, I guess, where Brian's being pulled in two different directions. You know, the Beach Boys as they exist. You know, Mike, Al, Bruce, and so on. And then Dennis on the other end. And his heart might be with Dennis, you know, and making these records with his brother, just having a good time, eating hamburgers and snorting cocaine. But his soul, his body, I guess, might be taken away, reclaimed by the Beach Boys corporate apparatus, which, I mean, to an extent, there is an argument for that, because Brian could have killed himself at this moment in time with this behavior. But when he's removed from that situation, he's kind of damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. There isn't a good, actual, positive direction to take him at this moment. One or the other direction. They're each equally harmful in different ways.

[Brian Wilson]

What the people who are like us or like minded would like to have happen. When you say, oh, fuck Mike Love and fuck anybody who's getting in Brian's way, what's the best case scenario? I think we have to be honest, the best case scenario, what we would like to have had happen, is that Brian is allowed to do as many drugs as he wants with Dennis so that, yes, do whatever he needs to do so the creative process can flourish and then somehow find the strength and also the support to make that music actually happen and be released and be promoted. The first step of that is crazy to begin with. Like, it's a total gamble with his life, practically, of like, all right, this guy who we just had to save from almost certain doom due to his relationship with drugs is he wants to secretly do more music. But of course, like, you know what I'm saying? It's just sort of like, why? How could the good thing happen? I don't know that there was a way. At this point, it's just too complicated. And it's tragic, obviously, because the things that could have been done, I think, to mitigate this were these decisions shouldn't have been made to shut down Brian creatively when he was active and making music. And I, you know, during the love you era, I don't. It's. It's not apparent that he was, in a completely dysfunctional way.

[Mike Love]

No.

[Brian Wilson]

When it came to drugs, he was actually Doing what he is on this earth to do. And he was creatively inspired and productive. The decision that, like, what he's making isn't good for the Beach Boys. This is the thing that makes everything else impossible. You stopped him from doing the thing that he does.

[Mike Love]

Yeah, I mean, yeah. I mean, despite all the. We went over this several times, I think, around the time when we were talking about 15 big ones and it's okay and love you and whatever, like, as ill fated or, you know, kind of poorly executed as the Brian's Back campaign might have been. It actually. I mean, it did kind of come off at the. Like, they got him on stage, they got him slimmed down. They got him back to reality. He made an interesting record in 15 big ones and a truly legit, great record in Love U and a second grade record, you know, adult child that was dashed, you know, dashed right before his eyes. And then it was all just kind of, like, ripped away, you know, ripped away from him just as he had kind of developed a little bit of momentum and started to come into his own again.

[Brian Wilson]

And so, yeah, Brian's back, but only in the way that we want, not.

[Mike Love]

The way we want him to be back. Exactly. And so that monkey's paw curl. Exactly.

[Brian Wilson]

Whenever, you know, Mike is like, all right, Brian's back. He's making the songs.

[Mike Love]

Let's hear the song Mikey's Paw.

[Brian Wilson]

Yeah.

[Mike Love]

And so that. I mean, those decisions having been made in 1977 and 1978, you know, like, once you're. Once you've set down that path, like, it's just kind of inevitable at that point. Like, you're gonna reach a point like this. It didn't necessarily have to manifest exactly like this, but, like, in order to prevent this situation that Brian's in in 1981, where he's either in this, like, hopelessly destructive cycle with Dennis or just, like, completely catatonic, churning out bullshit with the Beach Boys, people would have needed to make different decisions years earlier. But because those decisions weren't made, the following, you know, however many years of fate fixed at that point.

[Brian Wilson]

It reminds me of, like, the Democrats, like, the Democratic Party, like, the way that everything seems to work now, or, you know, they don't offer anything new, anything good, and then when someone does, they sabotage it. And then they're like, I don't understand why we lost.

[Mike Love]

Right. Yeah, we're all downstream. Exactly. I mean, I'm sure people will get mad at us for this, because anytime we talk about this, people seem to think that we're MAGA people or whatever.

[Brian Wilson]

Specifically the Bernie Sanders team.

[Mike Love]

Well, yeah, no, exactly. This is all the reason that we have Trump, too, in 2024 is because Barack Obama and the demon rats united to eject Bernie Sanders and the actual legit populist, the populism movement from 2020. It was more worth it to them to get rid of that and get Joe Biden's mummy ass in the White House for four years than it was and then pay the check later, when Trump would inevitably get reelected, than it was to allow a legit left movement to, you know, kind of come to the forefront.

[Brian Wilson]

And you can't blame. Like, I. I'm not saying that Mike Love is, like, the Democratic Party.

[Mike Love]

Mike Love is. Oh, this is fun. Mike Love is.

[Brian Wilson]

Yeah, Mike Love is. What?

[Mike Love]

He's Joe.

[Brian Wilson]

No, he's Joe.

[Mike Love]

I think he's Joe. I think. I think Bruce would be Pete Buttigieg.

[Brian Wilson]

Sure.

[Mike Love]

Who. Who would. Al. Al would be. Al would be Elizabeth Warren.

[Brian Wilson]

No, that's too. That's too cruel to say at this moment in time.

[Mike Love]

Al was like, kind. Al has come around in the later years.

[Brian Wilson]

It's just like how Elizabeth Warren these days is like, after Mamdani is like, sort of won. She's like, also, I support it. And it's like, okay, great. Thanks again for fucking nothing.

[Mike Love]

Where were you five years ago, Al Alizabeth Warren. Okay. I think we've. We've worked as much juice out of that as we can.

[Brian Wilson]

It's about losing your way rather than winning in a way that you don't understand or refuse to accept. You could look at it, you know, if you want to be more generous, at least in this situation. It's like, we don't know any other way that works. Like, I think there's a lot of people, not we specifically you and I, but I think there's a lot of people who they. It's not just that they, like, disagree with more progressive music or politics or whatever the case is. It's just. It's that some people are not capable of even understanding it. Like, it completely confuses them. Like, their worldview, the way that they understand how everything works doesn't include a scenario in which certain things are viable. Like the. The reflex that many people had against someone like Bernie Sanders of just like, oh, I. That's a pipe dream. There's no way it could work. There. There is something of that dynamic going on here with, like. Like these songs on love you or adult child. Like, there is no way that anyone will accept this, like, this is not how you make music. Of course, ignoring that critics were accepting it and the entire world had changed and spun on its head 1 million times since they first started making music. And all it takes very often is some kind of a. A push and an insistence and a confidence that, no, this is actually real and good. And yeah, it's different, but this is part of the difference in the world that you see everywhere else. Like, we are also just different now and we're evolving along with everything you see around you.

[Mike Love]

Yeah. I mean, it's short sightedness and it's selfishness, you know, because it's not exactly what the public would have expected out of the Beach Boys at that moment in time. And so it might not sell as many records as they wanted it to. It might kind of weird some people out. But if it's allowed time to bloom and develop and kind of make its way out into the world, the same way that the turn that Brian made in 1964, 65, when he turned this novelty surf rock group into a powerhouse industrial studio masterwork. The same way that that was given time, space to develop and turn into what it was.

[Brian Wilson]

Yeah. Even if it was just because they were all on a plane in Japan or whatever.

[Mike Love]

Yeah. But you know it. But, you know, this is the world that we got.

[Brian Wilson]

If Brian had just shown the band as it existed in 63, you know, I wrote this song and it was Good Vibrations, they would probably have been like, what the hell is this? We can't use this.

[Mike Love]

Yeah. And that's obviously what they had thought when they heard Ding dang and honking down the highway. But to get back to the story here and lead us into the sessions here, one other string I just want to introduce into this tangled knot at this moment in time. Brian strikes up a new relationship here at this moment in time. And would you believe that it doesn't all go according to plan and that the Beach Boys themselves are not particularly supportive of it?

[Brian Wilson]

Tell me more.

[Mike Love]

Brian's night nurse at this moment in time.

[Brian Wilson]

Yeah, right. I knew we were gonna get here someday.

[Mike Love]

Was a competent psychiat nurse. I'm quoting Stephen Gaines now. So any sort of, you know, strange language, you know, that's his fault, not mine. Brian Snipe nurse was a competent psychiatric nurse named Carolyn Williams. A warm, caring woman with cornrows in her hair. I'm sure you can see where this is going. Raising three children from a former marriage, she had been one of Brian's favorite nurses while he was at Brotman Brotman was the hospital that he had been installed in. In several phone calls to Marilyn from the hospital, Brian had mentioned how fond he had become of Carolyn Williams. But no one suspected that Carolyn would soon become his girlfriend. When Brian started to go out on the road again, Carolyn accompanied him, much to the mortification of the rest of the group. Everybody hated it, said Steve Kordoff. Brian, arm in arm. This is again quoting Steve Kordoff at this time. Brian arm in arm with a black woman. Backstage. They would say, oh, Jesus. Al would come up to me and say, why does he have to put his arm around her? But what are you gonna do about two people? You can't tell them to live in a little closet. Although Carolyn Williams tried her best, life with Brian still left much to be desired. According to visitors, the house they lived in was always a mess. The floor was mottled with thousands of cigarette burns where Brian had tossed his cigarettes instead of using an ashtray. Unable to curtail his drinking or food intake, Brian was reportedly consuming four or five steaks a day, as well as mountains of ice cream and other fattening foods. I, you know, I'm sure Brian was not eating particularly healthy at this moment in time, but I love these just like completely confabulated details that Stephen Gaines comes up with, who is tracking his steak intake on a daily basis. That's just.

[Brian Wilson]

You can see it. Some things you can just tell it.

[Mike Love]

Might be spiritually true, but it doesn't. I wonder how literally true it might be. Anyways, he's obviously not taking care of himself. There were also rumors within the Beach Boys organization. Beach Boys organization that Brian was using drugs again. In addition to the prescribed medications he was also taking, Brian's renewed drug use was blamed on Dennis Wilson. Always blamed on the bad egg Dennis. Indeed. Dennis had been seeing a great deal of Brian in months, often bringing him to visit friends in seedy neighborhoods of Venice or to various studios where they produced and wrote songs together. And then, you know, kind of the keystone detail of the Stephen Gaines account of this whole thing. Sometimes Dennis would buy a huge bag of hamburgers at MacDonald's. He spells it M, A, C, Donald's. I don't know. Who hasn't? How do you. It's McDonald's. And give one. Give a hamburger to Brian for every song he worked on. Dennis might also promise Brian a gram of cocaine. For every song he wrote, Dennis would lay out the entire gram of cocaine on the piano top and Brian would snort it all in one long, noisy inhalation. Fifteen minutes later, he would want another bump. A bump, Another bump, another line, whatever.

[Brian Wilson]

Another gram. That's insane. I don't know. But.

[Mike Love]

But I mean, okay, like I was saying, confabulated detail.

[Brian Wilson]

Now, I'm not so sure after MacDonald's. I'm not sure about the four stakes a day, but print the legend.

[Mike Love]

Yeah, exactly. In any case, however much of that is literally true. However much of that is, you know, some colorful details made up by an obvious huckster. That's the image that has been painted of these sessions. And that's kind of the legend that exists to this day. And on that note, I think we can and talk about what music there is here on the, you know, like we said, Cocaine Sessions, which, I mean, I don't know that we need to talk about every song in great detail. You know, this bootleg typically starts with 30 seconds of something called. Yeah. Which is, you know, is nice, but I think. I mean, oh, Lord is really the big keystone chunk of music that makes these sessions worth listening, too.

[Brian Wilson]

Yeah, I mean, definitely. There's nothing else, really. Not really. I mean, basically, this is kind of the great lost song of Brian and the Beach Boys music world at large. I would say, like, just for the fact that there's no other version of it anywhere.

[Mike Love]

Yeah, there are, you know, a couple versions of some of the other songs that leak out here.

[Brian Wilson]

Or, like, you know, there are, like, riffs on it.

[Mike Love]

Yeah, exactly. But oh, Lord seems to have just been, frankly, like, pretty much worked out entirely in these sessions. Like, obviously, fidelity is, like, shot to shit. And, you know, it's not something that you would ever put on a record to release, you know, in a record store, necessarily. But, like, there is no reason to me why you couldn't have just put Brian and Dennis in a recording studio, you know, the competent producer, and had them just do this exact thing over again.

[Brian Wilson]

Yeah. Why is it just these guys?

[Mike Love]

Well, I think it's because of these secretive Hamburger and Cocaine sessions. Because I think what it was was these sessions were as much about the two of them just kind of letting loose and indulging each other's worst impulses and being away from the Beach Boys corporate colossus. It was just as much about that as it was about actually writing and recording great new songs to be put out. Because, like they said in one of those quotes I just delivered, if the music didn't have sun or fun in the title, if it wasn't an obvious Beach Boys kind of retread, the Beach Boys didn't Want anything to do with it. And Brian didn't have a solo career yet at this point. Dennis had had a solo career, but that had already kind of tanked at this point. He's four years out of Pacific Ocean Blue at this moment. And Bamboo, obviously is kind of withering on the vine. So I don't think this music was necessarily ever written, recorded, done, whatever, with any sort of intent to release it under any of their own names, under the Beach Boys aegis for other songwriters or anything. But despite all that, they still can't help but create, you know, Brian in particular can't help but create just an unbelievable, sublime song.

[Brian Wilson]

I don't know that there was no desire or thought that this would be released. I actually feel like this was like a completely coke and alcohol driven situation. But as is often the case, I have the feeling that this was probably like, right before they started, like there was some big talk perhaps about, like, we're gonna make something amazing, we're gonna make something great right now. Whatever we do right now is gonna be so, so, so good. And we. We can put it. We could put it out on our own. You and me. We could put this out. What? Mike, Al, Carl too. We can just put this out. You and I could do something together. How about this? And then they probably started and it just sounded. Sounds like it sounds. There might be a mythic level of desire and hope attached to this being something that would be released before they actually hit record. On the potato with wires sticking out of it.

[Mike Love]

I'm amazed that it sounds as bad as it does. Like, if it sounded any worse, it just would not be audible. The only way you can have a shittier recording is if it isn't recorded at all.

[Brian Wilson]

Recorded with the static electricity from laundry lint.

[Mike Love]

But, I mean, that does lend, obviously, a little bit of magic and mystique to it. Who's to say if we had gotten a clear, clean, kind of straightforward rendition of this song, of any of these songs, to the extent that the Evens are songs, if they would be better than what we have, you know, I kind of like the fact that they only exist as this smoky, untouchable type of apparition, as opposed to whatever 1981 kind of corny production it might have gotten. And it's got a little bit of. I mean, obviously for us, an obvious touch point for this would be something like the Basement Tapes, which is also music that has this mythic quality to it. And there's. There's considerably more of it, obviously. But I think These opportunities to see these brilliant geniuses in these completely unselfconscious kind of moments peek behind the curtain. Bob was obviously operating at a much stronger peak in 1967 when he's cutting basement tape shit than Brian is at this moment in 1981. But it's. I don't know, it's the kind of breadcrumb, you know, in the breadcrumb trail, I think, that makes this whole thing end up being worth it at the end.

[Brian Wilson]

Yeah.

[Mike Love]

It really is just beautiful music.

[Brian Wilson]

It's as good as it gets. There's a reason why I use this as the little sound outro to the episode about Brian's passing away. I. I just thought, like, this is kind of. It captures something so unguarded and pure. It kind of reminds me of, like Bob Dylan in the Christian years. Maybe not just because it's. Oh, Lord. But, I mean, that's part of. Part of why. But also I think it's just got a sense of unselfconscious drama that isn't like cooked up drama. It feels like it's just actually there.

[Mike Love]

Yeah, it comes very naturally. And it's basically just Brian singing and playing piano. And I think Dennis is on an organ. Very spare type of sound.

[Brian Wilson]

Yeah, Dennis would be the one on the organ. Because it starts kind of inconsistent.

[Mike Love]

Yeah.

[Brian Wilson]

And I feel like Brian is a little bit more comfortable at. At home on the keys.

[Mike Love]

Yes. In and out. But, you know, that's how it, you know, should be.

[Brian Wilson]

I. I would say I like it.

[Mike Love]

Yeah.

[Brian Wilson]

I mean, when you mentioned the Basement Tapes, it's kind of like it's. It feels like we've been robbed. That, like, this is just two guys. These guys. These two guys in this moment with whatever they were recording with.

[Mike Love]

With.

[Brian Wilson]

And they. They were doing this in secret, and there's nobody to support them. And with the Basement Tapes, it's like a whole band and Bob Dylan and they're able to make stuff that basically sounds like its own album and is like a fully. In its own way, fully realized.

[Mike Love]

Well, yeah. And.

[Brian Wilson]

And here it's just like, the fact is, like, if there were just a couple more people, like, we could have something that was fully realized.

[Mike Love]

We could. But again, if there had couple other people, these wouldn't have happened in the first place. Because they would have said Mike and Al and whoever would have said Brian. Dennis, get the fuck away from Brian. He's not allowed to be doing this. Making this kind of music, eating hamburgers, whatever.

[Brian Wilson]

Yeah, I mean, this is. This also. Yeah, it is. The sound of Brian. He goes into this eyes closed, soulful, ecstatic music. Kind of thinking probably about the next gram of coke that he's gonna snort off the top of the piano as soon as he's finished.

[Mike Love]

There's no way he snorted a whole gram of cocaine in one. In one go. That seems. That's impossible.

[Brian Wilson]

I don't know. Not when you got four steaks in your belly to support you.

[Mike Love]

How do people. Like, I just, I, you know, Obviously Brian in 1981 is like an extreme example of this, but just like, like, I like. How do people live like that?

[Brian Wilson]

You, you've heard those Brando stories.

[Mike Love]

Like end of, end of his life Brando?

[Brian Wilson]

Not necessarily, no. Like, I think in the, in the midst of his life, he was just like, really. He had a, you know, really disastrous sort of bingeing thing with food. Like the, the maybe apocryphal story that I think about is like, I forget which film it was that he was like, told. Like, please don't. Don't put on a lot of weight. Because, like, literally for continuity reasons, like, his weight fluctuations would become an issue at times. And he rode a little boat out into the middle of a lake and ate like 12 pints of ice cream.

[Mike Love]

Hell yeah. That's honestly pretty sick. The man is so devoted to ice cream, he's gonna row a boat into a lake.

[Brian Wilson]

Brian story also the type. Yeah, there's like stories about him like, eating like, you know, 12 omelet and like then like 10 milkshakes and then four steaks.

[Mike Love]

I just like, I ate like one burrito yesterday and then like gave myself a stomachache and couldn't eat anything for the rest of the day after like 4pm I know, but that I just.

[Brian Wilson]

Like, that kind of thing is. It's like you're built differently. Some people are built different. And I think it maybe has something to do with like the Donald Trump type style of body, which, like, when you think about it, like Brando Trump, Brian, they all have this broad type, big and tall. Like big and tall. Like you're, you're fat, but you're also just so long that it's sort of like something, something happens there where nature itself gets confused. Like it's like one gram of Coke. They're like, is this a Tylenol? Your body's just like, all right, and then like four sticks versus one steak. What's the difference?

[Mike Love]

You know, high protein diet, that's very en vogue these days. I'd love to get that much protein in a Day.

[Brian Wilson]

I don't know that coke has any protein.

[Mike Love]

Well, but that, you know, that kind of gives you.

[Brian Wilson]

Doesn't have any carbs, though.

[Mike Love]

That's right. Exactly. That gives you the energy to, you know, kind of lift and do some resistance training. And then you just, you know, protein load. After that with the steaks, you have.

[Brian Wilson]

Two hamburgers, then you're like, ugh, I feel like shit. I'm like so tired. And then you do a gram of coke and then you. And you're like, oh, boy, two more hamburgers.

[Mike Love]

I love that. Brian is also doing all of that. He's snorting one gram of coke lines and double fisting cigarettes and spliffs. And then Dennis is knocking back tequila sodas. And Brian's like, dennis, you shouldn't do that.

[Brian Wilson]

Don't drink. Dennis, don't drink. You should never drink. Well, we should talk about that interview that happened.

[Mike Love]

Well, we'll talk about the interview in a sec. But I mean, the other songs on here, you know, are good to listen to. City Blues is probably the second most, you know, you know, put together song here that's sort of just like a rough and tumble, you know, barrel house blues type number. Brian banging on the pot. Banging on the pot. Brian banging on the piano. I dig the sound of this because it doesn't sound like a Beach Boys song. Even if you gave it the Beach Boys gloss and sheen and whatever. Like, it's a fundamentally different kind of specimen that would not have made sense as a Beach Boys type of tune. It's enjoyable, it's fun. It tweaks me to hear these different styles of song, of music that Brian was interested in and capable of working in at this moment in time. Even if you got zero hint of that on the official Beach Boys releases.

[Brian Wilson]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, oh, Lord. Does not sound like a Beach Boys.

[Mike Love]

Not at all.

[Brian Wilson]

And it doesn't even sound like a Brian song necessarily.

[Mike Love]

No, it's kind of its own thing.

[Brian Wilson]

It's so good.

[Mike Love]

Yeah, it's. It's beautiful stuff. And. And the tape, like kind of cuts out maybe halfway through, you know, two thirds of the way through. And then it comes back like it at a different fidelity level. So it's unclear if that's just like someone started up a second tape recorder or if it's one take spliced together into whatever it is. You know, it's.

[Brian Wilson]

We can talk about other. It's an imperfect listening experience, definitely, but. And there's like. You could talk about the other songs, but, you know, such as they Are.

[Mike Love]

Just listen to it. I mean, it's 20 minutes long. Basically, this song, you know, the whole music.

[Brian Wilson]

Oh Lord thing is just. There's something so poignant about it, about this thing of Brian and Dennis, like the two wounded warriors of. Of the Beach Boys. Like these. These brothers, like, secretly meeting to have a dream about their music again in a. In a real way. It's. There's nothing more tragic and. And beautiful. And the whole story of. Of Brian and the Beach Boys, like, this moment sort of crystallizes something about that. Because Dennis, you know, for all of his awful behavior.

[Mike Love]

Rambunctiousness.

[Brian Wilson]

Rambunctiousness, yeah. For his, like, his just like nakedly.

[Mike Love]

Destructive tendencies, domestic abuse and his drunk belligerence and his constant philandering.

[Brian Wilson]

Yeah. Probably would have died of cirrhosis a year after he drowned by accident. But he also is so creatively driven and he's so encouraging and nurturing of Brian. And the creative instinct there. There's something so profound about that. Through all the ugliness and then the fact this recording is so ugly. This thing that's undeniably powerful and clear and inspired coming through and it being something that can come through only because for a minute, Brian is getting actual encouragement from someone.

[Mike Love]

All there is to see.

[Brian Wilson]

Make me.

[Mike Love]

Sad.

[Brian Wilson]

From everything Let me see.

[Mike Love]

What there is to see Beautiful to hear even under the circumstances that it was being made in and knowing that things were not working even as they were. It's a glimpse of something innocent and pure. You can even hear this at the end of I Feel so Fine. You know, kind of the last real song here. When Brian kind of like stops playing. He's like, whoa, whoa. I just came up with. I just. I love that. That's so great. I feel so.

[Brian Wilson]

I just came up with that song.

[Mike Love]

You hear that? And that's. I mean, that's it. That's. That is just the innocent, pure, beautiful heart of the man. Just excited that he kind of came up spur the moment with yet another Brian Wilson number. Man, I love it.

[Brian Wilson]

Yeah, the interview where they're talking to those guys. That's not even interview. It's just a chat. You know, they're just of kind. Kind of hanging out.

[Mike Love]

They're cool guys. They're people who would later subscribe to Jokerman podcast.

[Brian Wilson]

Exactly. And they're just fans who are talking to Brian. I don't know why they're there.

[Mike Love]

I think they wrote for a Beach Boys fanzine or something like that.

[Brian Wilson]

Sounds like they are Jokerman listeners of yore. But they're basically just encouraging Brian and saying, are you gonna make anything new? We love, we love the new stuff.

[Mike Love]

Yeah. Play the new stuff. They're asking him about still. I Dream of it, which is this legend. They have him sing it just like spur the moment. Oh, that's great.

[Brian Wilson]

That's great. Yeah. But the other, the terrible interview, though.

[Mike Love]

Is the Good Morning America interview that I sent you.

[Brian Wilson]

Yeah, awful.

[Mike Love]

Oh, my God.

[Brian Wilson]

And the part where, I mean. Yeah. The most striking thing obviously is just right off the bat, Dennis is like, not present for this.

[Mike Love]

Like, barely even conscious.

[Brian Wilson]

It's not even just like, oh, he's like a little, he's drunk. Like when, you know, Don Lemon would, like, have a few too many on New Year's, it's like he's like a second away from vomiting.

[Mike Love]

He probably already has vomited backstage. And this is, this is post vomit clarity.

[Brian Wilson]

He says nothing when he's asked about. And then, like, the answers that Carl gives about, like, you know, what the. To their credit, I mean, it's kind of just like not the time or place, but the woman interviewing them on Good Morning America is like trying to ask some, some honest, hard hitting questions about, like, do you feel like you're stuck doing your oldies and you want to do other stuff, but it's like asking someone who is being blackmailed, like, to do something different from what they're doing, like if they would like to be doing something else. The way that Carl and the group talk about it, it's like, especially Carl, he's like, what? Well, people like, you know, people like what they, they, they enjoy the old songs. And so we've, we try to just, you know, do more of that.

[Mike Love]

Now he puts on a game face.

[Brian Wilson]

You know, I mean, it's pathetic. It's so sad.

[Mike Love]

It's pretty gruesome.

[Brian Wilson]

And actually ask him, like, she asks him like, but what do you think about it? And he just dodges it. Like, completely ignores that. It's actually a question posed to him. He's just like, wait. Well, we, we do, we do what we do and we, we just hope the crowds are, you know, we hope everyone's happy or. And yeah, then they ask Brian what he likes to listen to first.

[Mike Love]

They ask him what his kids like to listen to, what Connie and Wendy like to listen to. And I forget what he says. Did he say like XDC or something?

[Brian Wilson]

I don't know. Does he say something?

[Mike Love]

He says something. And then they say, well, what do you like to listen to, Brian? And he says, I listen to a record called Be My Baby by the Ronettes. And everyone just starts laughing and he's like looking dead into the camera just like.

[Brian Wilson]

It's like the dead serious.

[Mike Love]

Yeah, exactly. Eyes wide.

[Brian Wilson]

I listened to a record called Be My Baby by the Rollins.

[Mike Love]

I mean, it is an incredible phrase, way to phrase that answer. But the whole group erupts in laughter around him and he's just staring dead eyed straight ahead. It's a very powerful, I think, kind of juxtaposition against these cocaine session tapes, right, where like here's what Brian and Dennis were doing. Were feeling kind of behind the scenes in their own private life. You know, for better or for worse, this is what was happening. And then when you put them, when you shove them in to the fucking Beach Boys Colossus and put them in front of the bright lights, this is the result. Tough.

[Brian Wilson]

I listened to a record called Be My Baby by the Ronnettes. Three stars for oh Lord.

[Mike Love]

Three stars for oh Lord. Certainly give it a listen. You know, it's on YouTube and you can download bootlegs and stuff out there. It's a pretty quick spin. I'm sure. You know, many people listening to this episode have already listened to it themselves and are familiar with it. We go out with a little bit more of the story here. That kind of sets us up for the next chapter in the saga. I'm going to return to some of our books here, starting with Stephen Gaines. March 24, 1980, at the Lee County Airport in Fort Myers, Florida. The Beach Boys were on their way to Tampa to perform. Carolyn Williams, remember Brian's partner at this time, was passing through the security check before boarding when she was asked to open a blue denim carry on bag as well as a black and brown bag. According to the booking report filed that day, there was a white piece of paper in the bag that contained a white substance that appeared to be a narcotic. The report said that Carolyn grabbed the white paper and deliberately emptied it out on the floor. Later, the residue proved positive to copy Cobalt the Cyanate narcotet. I don't know. It was cocaine. Carolyn insisted that she was set up as a means of getting rid of her. Intimate members of the Beach Boys circle suspect she was right. But Carolyn and Brian could not be kept apart. Once they returned to Los Angeles later that summer, Brian asked Carolyn to move her three children and dog into a new house he had purchased at 9:10 green tree in the Pacific Palisades, which Rip probably no longer exists by Oz bottom Brian's weight was 311 pounds and climbing.

[Brian Wilson]

This is also the era, the. The moment in time, which is recounted in Brian Wilson's autobiography, where he talks about how one time he said. And he. He's like, I really regret that I. I wish I didn't say this, but one time. Time he told her, get your black ass over here and bring me a sandwich. And he says in his autobiography, I really shouldn't have said that.

[Mike Love]

You're right, Brian. You really shouldn't have said that.

[Brian Wilson]

This is also the era where when his kids were coming home on the school bus, he is recounted to have once run out into the street with no shirt on at 300 pounds, knocked on the door of the bus and asked the bus driver, can you light my cigarette?

[Mike Love]

For everything you can say about Brian Wilson, very body positive. Many, many images. The man with his belly just hanging, just out there for the world to see. I was proud of him for being so willing to bear it all. On that note, Brian now in very poor shape. We're back to John Stebbins was missing concerts regularly at this point in time. He still hated touring and had to be watched at all times while traveling with the band. The press had announced his comeback with such fanfare that people expected to see him when they attended a Beach Boys concert. But Brian had bottomed out again. In fact, 1980 and 1981 may have been his worst period of time.

[Brian Wilson]

It sounds like it based on everything we clearly.

[Mike Love]

One member of the Beach Boys touring band relates an incident that illustrates the precarious state Brian was in. This is another ridiculous story from an unnamed source of this Beach Boys touring band at this moment in time. They say we were eating at a restaurant near the hotel we were staying at prior to a concert appearance in the Midwest. All of the band and the whole entourage were there enjoying a meal before the show. This particular restaurant was next to the airport. And as we sat and ate, we could look out the window at all the planes taking off. We're sitting there looking out at the tarmac, and suddenly we see a plane getting ready to take off. And there's Brian in the plane looking at us. He had convinced some guy to fly him somewhere, anywhere. He just wanted to leave. So everyone jumps up and runs out yelling, stop the plane. Stop the plane. Eventually, Brian's bodyguard babysitter was able to retrieve him. But the overall attempt to contain the reluctant rockstar was clearly failing. I don't know what type of environment it was where there was apparently a diner just on a airplane or airport tarmac and you could see Brian Wilson in a plane about to take off. I'm enjoying playing that little episode in my mind. At the root of the problem was the painful fact that Brian, Dennis, and Carl all hated what the Beach Boys had become. They deeply loved the music they had created together and respected each other's talent. But they'd come to despise participating in an ongoing oldies revue. They were fed up with the chronic shortage of fresh material, the shallow performances, and all the strategic and creative constraints. Their little vocal group had become a monster. Which brings us to David Leif once again, who tells us there was no way to control Dennis's behavior. But by early 1983, you know, after the cocaine sessions have taken place, Fearful that Brian was perilously close to becoming the next big rock and roll death, the Beach Boys management had rehired. Do you know who they had rehired huge?

[Brian Wilson]

The Landy.

[Mike Love]

Dr. Eugene Landy. To straighten out Brian. Brian's regression, you know, at this moment in time, would immediately be checked by Dr. Landy's return. The Beach Boys, dedicated to saving their former leader, reportedly pledged the net proceeds from one concert a month to pay for Landy's services at a fee reportedly.

[Brian Wilson]

$1 million billion dollars.

[Mike Love]

That was basically it. At a fee reportedly in the neighborhood of $1,000 a day in 1983. Money Landy now, which was, I don't know, probably 200, you know, $25,000 something.

[Brian Wilson]

Yeah, something like that.

[Mike Love]

Landy now had the opportunity, as he put it, to complete his canvas. One of the most grotesque, the most.

[Brian Wilson]

Ominous and creepy things you could possibly say about a patient. He's like a Batman.

[Mike Love]

He really is.

[Brian Wilson]

He's straight up, like, exactly. Like, all he needs is someone to, like, accidentally push him into, like, a vat of acid or like a solar wind, and then he's like, boom. This guy's like a full fledged super villain.

[Mike Love]

He's like one of those, like, B or C tier Batman villains. Like, like the clock guy. His name is like calendar man or clock man or something.

[Brian Wilson]

Calendar Man? Yeah, it's calendar man.

[Mike Love]

So Eugene Landy coming back into the picture, the problem was, of course, how do we do it? How do we get Landy back in? Because Brian has to willingly allow him to be brought in initially. And we'll go back to you, say.

[Brian Wilson]

We'Re gonna give you a gram of coke and a hamburger.

[Mike Love]

Well, that might have been an easier way to do it, quite frankly. Back to Stephen Gaines to tell us the end of this story. The problem was how to do it do being, you know, bringing Eugene Landy back into the picture. By now, Tom Hewlett of Concerts west was managing the Beach Boys, while Jerry Schilling handled Carl Wilson's personal management. Under their guidance, an extraordinary event took place. Brian Wilson was fired by the Beach Boys on November 5, 1982, at a meeting held in their lawyer's office. Brian was presented with a letter which read, this is to advise you that your services as an employee of Brother Records and otherwise are hereby terminated, effective immediate immediately. The letter added that this action is taken in your best interest and it is not reversible. We wish you the best of health. Signed Alan Jardine, Mike Love, Carl and Dennis Wilson.

[Brian Wilson]

Damn. I mean, that's a pretty streamlined and effective way of doing an intervention, I guess.

[Mike Love]

Well, just, you know, just wait. Just a few weeks before, Brian had been notified also that he was, quote, broke and behind in his taxes by nearly $80,000. Steve Kordoff had also been told Br Brian was broke and was unable to afford Steve's salary. Steve is one of Brian's bodyguards, babysitters at this point in time, so he was fired in October. Now Brian was left alone under the total care of Carolyn Williams, who had moved her children into Brian's house. But in truth, Brian was not broke and he had not actually been fired. All of this was merely a ploy to get him away from Carolyn Williams and back to Gene Landy. The crisis had taken six months to invent and prepare with Eugene Landy's help. Behind the scenes, no one thought there was hope for Brian, Landy said, but four people decided to take a shot at saving him anyhow. According to Landy, he told people before being brought in, there are certain conditions for my return. I want Brian in a hospital first, and I want to check the man out physically. The Beach Boys felt that for Brian's own benefit, they had to get him away from Carolyn Williams. So in January 1983, Brian was told he needed a complete physical examination in order for Eugene Landy to treat him. He was brought to Sears Cedars Sinai, where, according to landy, Brian weighed 320 pounds upon arrival and was in a chemical daze. An extensive series of tests was run, including myriad blood analyses, cardiograms, and something else that I can't pronounce. Landy said, Brian, we put Brian through every test imaginable to see what food allergies he had, the level of medication in his bloodstream. The man was on so much, much shit. He had 40% lung capacity and zero liver doctors Murray Susser and Saul Samuels. I don't know where this guy gets these people's names. Put Brian on an intravenous biomedical diet that Landy called heavy detox. Two weeks later, after tests were completed, Brian was whisked away from the hospital on a Sunday without Carolyn's knowledge and taken to a rented house in Kona, Hawaii. Hawaii. Sorry to everyone out there. Hawaii, Hawaii. He was accompanied by Eugene Landy, Landy's lady friend Alexandra. Stephen Gaines's words, not mine. His associate arnold Dalke, and Dr. Susser, yada yada. Then there's some. I'm not gonna go through this quoting it necessarily, but there's this big back and forth while Brian is sequestered in Hawaii, where Carolyn Williams is sent a telegram at her house and told Brian's house, you gotta move out, get your kids out. Brian doesn't want to see you anymore. Brian sends her a separate telegram that says, I can't get ahold of you. Don't leave. This is all going terrible. I don't know what's happening to me. And then is later given a story to tell to the press and allows her to basically be kicked out of his life.

[Brian Wilson]

But they probably just paid her off or something.

[Mike Love]

I don't even know if they did that, to be honest. But we can hope. That would have been the best case scenario. Anyways, by March 1983, Brian was back in Los Angeles, some 40 pounds thinner. Landy moved him into one of the largest homes in Malibu. Colony, your neck of the wood. Well, so, so, you know, close enough. 7,000 square foot, six bedroom, two story beach house with two kitchens and a jacuzzi. Several aides moved in with him, including Landy's son and Evan, a bunch of other people that same March.

[Brian Wilson]

Evan Landy.

[Mike Love]

Evan Landy, that's right. Yeah. You were presumably named after the same. That same March, Brian's business manager, Rick Nelson, wrote a cautionary letter about Landy's bills, quoting this letter. Now, as of March 17th, Brian had written checks to Eugene Landy totaling $44,000. Based on Landy's projections, expenses will run approximately $57,000 per month. Month again in 1983, plus any other unpredictable occurrences such as recording sessions. In addition, Brian has ongoing monthly expenses which total approximately $15,000. Thus, in the nine months remaining in 1983, will need about $650,000. This is a good 350 to 400,000 more than Brian's gross projected earnings for 1983 before tax. But according to Rick Nelson's wife, Janet, lent Coupe the money no longer mattered. Quoting her now. And I think this is, you know, the mindset that they all had at this moment in time.

[Brian Wilson]

Just wanted to jump in today. $650,000 in 1983 would be $2,097,914.

[Mike Love]

So clearly, Brian Wilson is just like a cash cow being pumped for all that he's worth by Eugene.

[Brian Wilson]

I mean, even if he was anyone, like, yeah. I mean, what he's doing is ethically just not, like, forget he's gonna.

[Mike Love]

He's gonna complete his canvas. But this is. This is the. The. What everyone has decided is the right move. And I think this last line is. Is indicative of the direction we're going to continue to head at this point. If Landy could get Brian to produce just one hit album, it would all easily be worth it. Where have we heard that one before? If we could just get Brian to produce one more hit album, all of our problems are solved. It's not like we haven't tried that 9,000 times before and put us in this exact situation that we find ourselves in in 1983. Well, that's a fun start to the Brian Wilson saga, right?

[Brian Wilson]

It gets better.

[Mike Love]

It does get better. It does get a lot better. And it's not really going to get any worse at this point.

[Brian Wilson]

Actually, no, I think this is the bottom of the bottom. I mean, when we're talking about him literally being scooped up from the gutter and then taken to a rehab where they fix the fact that he's running on illegal substances more than his own blood. Like, this is. This is. You can only go up from here. Even though he's being washed over by a megalomaniac who is draining his bank account like a vampire, apparently he's also.

[Mike Love]

Draining his liver of all the toxins. Yeah, it's not all gonna be good news for everyone. We are going to need to bid adieu to a certain beach boy in the near future here. But, you know, we're into the darkness, but eventually the dawn will come. Jokerman.

[Brian Wilson]

It's Jokerman. Yeah. Whoa. Wow. You already get into that. I always feel so good on that organ. Do you hear that? I made that song up. Yes, I made that song. Boy, I feel so fine.