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- [00:03]
Jason Woodbury
This could be considered a track.
- [00:04]
Evan
Not really, though.
- [00:05]
Ian
We don't want to do that.
- [00:07]
Evan
This is a little intro, you know.
- [00:10]
Ian
All right, here we go.
- [00:10]
Evan
Countdown time. One, two, three, go.
- [00:24]
Jason Woodbury
Okay, boys, do it.
- [00:28]
Evan
Welcome back to Jokerman, the podcast about Dennis Wilson. I'm Evan.
- [00:36]
Ian
That's right. I'm Ian. And making his triumphant return already. We put you through the wringer last time with two hours of Carl and the Passions, so wanted to bring you back under more advantageous circumstances. Jason Woodbury, thank you so much, Jason.
- [00:51]
Jason Woodbury
Thank you guys for having me. Yeah, that episode was so tough, but. No, I'm just kidding. It was great. I had so much fun doing it. And, I mean, I was mildly nervous that the fact that I talked about the album for two hours might have revealed troubling character flaws or something.
- [01:12]
Evan
That's good character. It builds character, in fact, to talk about. So tough. Carl and the Passion.
- [01:18]
Ian
Two hours on that eight song record, and two of the songs are basically the Flames sort of knockoff songs. And then one of the song. One of the songs is about Brian, you know, getting a rub down at the circus. Max. There's, you know, there's not a whole lot of material there, so we. You acquitted yourself well by, you know, talking through all of it with us to such great experiences.
- [01:41]
Jason Woodbury
Yeah, I've been keeping up. So I know you guys have been subjected to less, shall we say, less successful TM songs than all this. Is that, you know, so definitely, definitely that. That. I mean, yeah, you guys, it's funny because Carl and the Passion's so Tough by the Beach Boys. It's like you realize, wow, this is actually a little bit of a plateau here, you know, like, they're. They're pretty high up compared to where it's about to immediately go, but that's right.
- [02:15]
Ian
You don't know what you got until it's gone.
- [02:16]
Evan
You know, like waves on the ocean, they're. They come and they go, and some are big and some are small. And sometimes they say, don't go in the ocean. There's a bunch of shit in the ocean right now. It's not good to go in there.
- [02:30]
Ian
Don't go near the water, they say.
- [02:32]
Evan
In fact, they do.
- [02:34]
Ian
But sometimes you do want to go near the water Today. Pacific Ocean Blue, Dennis Wilson, 1977 legendary record, and one that I know you're very fond of, Jason. One that I have always been quite fond of as well. So glad to have you here. Third mic in with us. I know some of the records we've talked about recently have not been Evan's favorites. See the 15 big ones conversation, for instance. So I guess we'll see if you've become more of a Pacific Ocean Blue fan, Evan, but I didn't want to subject you to just, you know, trying to fake it for 90 minutes on this record that I'm so excited about. So when do I fake it?
- [03:12]
Evan
When is that a problem?
- [03:13]
Ian
Well, yeah, that's a good point. You don't bother to fake. Exactly. Well, I mean, where did this. When did this record come in. Come in from, for you, Jason?
- [03:21]
Jason Woodbury
This record came in for me right when I started working at a record store when I was like, 21. And it was. It's funny because I pulled. I went to poll my copy and I realized, oh, I have two. I have two copies. And then I realized I actually have three copies, so.
- [03:40]
Ian
Three copies, wow.
- [03:42]
Jason Woodbury
So, but the first copy I picked up at the record store that I worked at, and it was, I mean, beyond beat to shit. Like, it was so hard to, you know, play, actually. But I bought it anyway because it was this, like, cult record. It was before the 2008 reissue, and at this point, it was out of print. And so it had that, like, mythic quality that sometimes certain LPs take on, especially ones that feel, you know, hard to get your hands on or, you know, a little bit more, like, esoteric or however you want to put it. So I was into it then I bought a. A nicer copy, somewhere along the lines. And that's the second copy. And then the third copy belongs to my wife, Becky, because she worked the Sony campaign when it was reissued in 2008.
- [04:34]
Evan
The most important campaign of 2008.
- [04:36]
Jason Woodbury
Yeah. It's interesting, though, because that's when the record actually started. That's when sort of it picked up like, another burst of interest. And there was, like, indie rock. I think there were. Indie rock sort of People really gravitated to the 2008 reissue, I think.
- [04:56]
Ian
Yeah, it reentered the conversation because from what I understand, it came out in 77, like we talked about. Sold reasonably well. Wasn't like a barn burner necessarily. I think it outsold Beach Boys, Love youe, to be honest. But, you know, didn't sell a trillion copies. And then, like, you know, kind of went out of print. There was a CD release in 91, and then it was. That was kind of it until the 2008 re presentation when they brought out the bamboo stuff as well. And so I read that CD copies of this thing from 91 used to go for, like, 200 bucks before the 2008 thing. So I do think that that definitely played a role in bringing this record back into the. Back into the conversation, centering this record in the Beach Boys saga. Conversation. I mean, it sort of looks legendary. I mean, not to get started talking about it already, but, I mean, this is, like, one of the great covers. It's one of the great covers of records ever, as far as I'm concerned.
- [05:56]
Jason Woodbury
He looks like Obi Wan Kenobi or something. Like. He looks like Poseidon.
- [06:02]
Evan
Yeah, he has a godlike quality. He looks like a Greek God in a blue T shirt.
- [06:09]
Ian
He's in a blue T shirt.
- [06:10]
Jason Woodbury
He's also not that old here, but he does look pretty. It's weathered. Living the life as Dennis Wilson is not like a chill situation, obviously, but, I mean, he does look incredible. And then the. The insert, or. Sorry, the. In the actual gatefold, like, all these incredible photos of the pictures, you know, with this, you know, the mixing board and. Or whatever the. Maybe it's a task scam or something. Anyway, it's just. It is. It's a really striking album, and it's. It ends up. The packaging on this one is sort of a huge part of the appeal, and it. You can. It reflects that sort of naturalistic quality that I think the record actually possesses a lot. So. Yeah, so I guess that's. I got into it when it. I got more into it when it was reissued, but I managed to get my hands on a really gnarly copy of it before then that I sort of treasure for sentimental reasons.
- [07:11]
Ian
Weathered the same way Dennis himself might have been weathered at this moment in time.
- [07:15]
Jason Woodbury
Maybe. Yeah, actually, that's a really good. That's a really good way to put it.
- [07:19]
Evan
I see here a little promo copy for the record, I guess, when it first came out. Dennis Wilson becomes the first of the Beach Boys to record and release a solo album. Laced with imagery of the surf and the ocean, Pacific Ocean Blue sings in a uniquely beautiful Dennis Wilson style on Caribou Records and Tapes. What is Caribou Records and Tapes?
- [07:46]
Ian
It's an imprint for cbs. The Beach Boys had just jumped over from Mourners to CBS following Love U, which I think we talked about in the Love U episode. Dennis had actually signed a solo deal with Caribou before that switch was made, which actually, wouldn't, you know, that turned out to be a little bit of a sticking point with some of the other Beach Boys. I've got a little bit of information here from the real Beach Boy by John Stebbins about Dennis Wilson through Dennis good friend James Guercio from Chicago. We've talked about him before. CBS Records had been courting Dennis Wilson as a solo artist. And even before the Beach Boys had signed with the label, an independent agreement had been reached with Dennis. When Mike and the others found out that Dennis had received a six figure advance upon signing his own contract with the CBS Custom Caribou label, they reacted in a typically jealous manner. Apparently, Mike had been hoping for a CBS solo deal of his own, but no one was interested. It must have killed him to learn that Garcio and CBS were encouraging Dennis to keep working on his own material until he had enough for three albums.
- [08:54]
Evan
Wow.
- [08:54]
Ian
The. The record company calls it 1, 2, 3, said Dennis in a 1977 interview with David Leaf. I just don't stop recording.
- [09:01]
Jason Woodbury
Yeah, yeah.
- [09:02]
Evan
They call it the 1, 2, 3 method, where you do three albums, you.
- [09:06]
Ian
Do one, then you do two, and then you do three.
- [09:09]
Evan
Then the third one becomes the third one. Yeah.
- [09:11]
Ian
Sort of like the three star system. It's the three star. It's the three record system. One, two, three.
- [09:16]
Evan
This is. If we were a record label, it'd be like, everybody, if you're signing with us, you gotta sign this piece of paper that says you're doing three.
- [09:22]
Jason Woodbury
Yeah, exactly. I mean, and also, I don't. I don't know how much you guys talked about James Garcia, but he is a really fascinating figure and it ties back to. If I would have you guys already did a Tulane Blacktop episode. And it was great. Thank you. But. But when I got on Tulane Blacktop, I was. It was around the same time as, like, when I got this record because, you know, Criterion had an addition or whatever, and I would watch that and it kind of put me on this, like, on the hunt for, like, road trip existentialist movies. And there's one called Electra Glide in Blue that James Garcia wrote and directed, and it was shot in Arizona.
- [10:10]
Ian
Oh, wow.
- [10:11]
Jason Woodbury
With Robert Blake, AKA the mystery man from, you know, Lost highway, convicted of murdering his wife. Right. Well, he didn't remember doing it though, so, you know, that's potentially convicted. But he definitely starred in Electric Glide in blue from 1973. But James Curcio, so he's. It's weird, right? Because he was also managing, like, Chicago and stuff. And they were doing really well. It was in Chicago. And it gets into the Beach Boys, right? Like, kicks one of our. One of our guys out.
- [10:44]
Ian
I think he's playing bass, I think, with the Beach Boys. That there's that 74 Beachago run, you know, which is a co headlining tour between the two of them where the Beach Boys really kind of come back into the public eye. And that's, I think, where Garcio really starts to kind of get his tenter hooks into the Beach Boys and he starts to. I think he does end up managing them for some period of time in this 76ish, 77 range. Steven Love ends up coming back into the picture before long. But he's definitely kind of a shadow player in this whole grand soap opera. I didn't know he was a film director, though.
- [11:20]
Jason Woodbury
Yeah, weirdly. And I guess nobody really knew how to make a movie. And it's really. Critics thought it was really exceptionally bad and they kind of like mocked it. But I mean, watching it, it's kind of. I don't know, I like. I guess I like movies that take. I like big swings or even maybe not that big a swing, but it ends up being a big swing because it's maybe not that successful or anything, but it's just cool to see old footage, especially of Arizona and stuff. So. Yeah, but we're weirdly, I mean, I think that it's crazy that Dennis got that big of an advance to do this because if I were, I mean, I guess he's undeniably like the. The hunkiest Beach Boy. So I guess like that's a. That's going for him. But if you look at sort of the other songs that he had done with the Beach Boys at this point, I mean, they're good, some of them are good, but it's like, I don't know, it's cool that they had that much faith in him and that it did generate, you know, this great record. And bamboo, which has some cool stuff on it too. So, you know, and then I guess maybe enough for a third. But I don't know if that's just included with the bamboo stuff. I imagine it is.
- [12:28]
Ian
Yeah. I don't think that the third ever really kind of took off because I mean, here we are in 1977, right.
- [12:35]
Jason Woodbury
Oh, right.
- [12:36]
Ian
We're six years away from Dennis Wilson dying at this point. Not to spoil, you know, sorry everyone, but you know, he starts to. Shortly after this record really start to go downhill and is not particularly productive or, you know, artistically.
- [12:56]
Jason Woodbury
Motivated or whatever.
- [12:58]
Ian
In the last couple years of his life.
- [13:00]
Jason Woodbury
Yeah, the song, one of the songs they play, the song they played his funeral is on this record, which is something kind of haunting. And this, this record does Sound. Even though it's, like you said, six years before he dies, it does have the. A dark quality that seems somewhat, you know, I don't know, like, it's. It's a little prophetic and it's in its doomy sound at times. You know what I mean? It's pretty.
- [13:28]
Evan
Yeah. He. All of his songs. Not all. A lot of his songs, even just in the Beach Boys catalog, have that air. Talked about it, like, there's a kind of tendency toward, like, droney, melancholic, sort of sad, bad hangover feeling, but it doesn't usually take up like this, the core of the song. It's just kind of like around the edges.
- [13:58]
Jason Woodbury
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And this record has moments of. Of that, like, where it's. It doesn't even match the lyrics, per se. It's just sort of this, like, he can't help. He's a very dramatic guy, obviously. But I think this record just indeed, this record hits like, some. Some perfect. I don't know, balance of, like, his dramatic tendencies, in my opinion. And. And pretty. Really well done songs with occasionally pretty great lyrics. I mean, that's the sense. Yeah.
- [14:32]
Ian
I mean, he had been. He had been. We talked about this on the Poops episode. We did a couple. Whatever that was. And there were, I don't know, however many songs on that playlist that I made 12 songs, something like that, which was a decent chunk of the material that he had been writing and recording at this time, but not representative of all of it. He had been working as an artist, as a songwriter, as a musician, as a recording artist for years at this point. And you see a couple glimpses of that on Carl and the Passions. Cuddle up, for instance. But a lot of his material was just kind of passed over or not really given, you know, it was given short shrift by the decision makers in the Beach Boys either. You know, frankly. You know, I think mostly Mike and Al, who were kind of on a team at this point in time, sort of divided against the brothers. Brian is obviously kind of off in sort of limbo. And so I think, you know, that's why Dennis, to me, ends up becoming this first. The first Beach Boy to make a solo record, is because he had just kind of been fed up with getting the short end of the stick for so long and knew that he had been working and trying and evolving as an artist, whether or not the people in the band or the general public were necessarily aware of it. And so eventually just says, fuck you guys. I'm gonna go do My own thing. And then this is what ends up coming out. And it does appear as this sort of shocking, stunning, sudden bolt of lightning. Like, whoa, this is. Who knew that this guy had this in him? But I think behind the scenes, he had been working up to this over the course of several years. Carl was in the studio helping Dennis with this record for months and months. And Brian even. Actually, he's not really part of this, but he did. There's a story about him getting smuggled into the studio undercover of night because the record company doesn't want Brian Wilson to be participating in this. But I mean, as we saw with Love U where Dennis and Carl were really helping Brian put that record together, I think Carl and Brian in return really helped Dennis put this record together.
- [16:43]
Jason Woodbury
He's not doing it all himself, but he is deeply, deeply like he's playing his ass up on this record. His credits list is pretty extensive. And so, I mean, he's definitely also got killer ringers and members of the Beach Boys and other people hanging out and contributing. But I do think, I mean, the reason I brought up All Things Must Pass is because, like, you know, George was also sick of his songs getting passed over and, you know, so he's like, kind of like ready to. To like, come out swinging. And I mean, I. I feel like Dennis, he is the. The himbo thing, like, it obviously is a big part of the story. And there are all these hilarious tales of like, Brian repeatedly saying he's dumb, you know, throughout their. In their youth or whatever, to like interviewers stuff. And so he definitely had that, you know, kind of like bro, dog, dumb dude thing going. But I think that what happened on this record, at least the way I hear it, is it's a combination of, you know, a couple things lining up. One sort of lightning striking and then two, even at this point, he's pretty frazzled and he's pretty fried, you know, so there's sort of like a natural just like hang dogness to so much of the way this record sounds. And his voice, his voice is kind of shredded in a certain sense, you know, kind of Harry Nilsson style. So. But I. So I think there's like a certain natural deterioration of certain things that actually ends up making. I'm not saying that that is what makes the art good, but it contributes to the sort of emotional quality that I hear in it. And then I think subsequently going along with that or like in pandemonium, tandem with it, is that like, he's kind of breaking down his emotional barriers. And so he's just saying stuff that he probably should have been saying his whole life. Right. You know, these certain honest. You know, this record has moments of just, like, really, like, earnest crooning about loving someone or whatever, you know. But I don't think that. I think that that stuff is like, really. I think that, like, there's no artifice in the emotion of it. And I think.
- [18:59]
Evan
No, no, I don't think so.
- [19:00]
Jason Woodbury
And I think that that ends up when you add all these together, kind of like a guy who has. Is, like, ready to prove himself. He's playing some incredible stuff. I mean, I really think the production on this record is like, what. I mean, this is. It's up there with. With Holland and almost up there with Pet Sounds, for me, in certain production choices.
- [19:22]
Evan
So I think the production is amazing, and I think that it sounds great in a way that it's like, why. How. How did the Beach Boys not just, like, if this could happen, like, how did the band not. They're making 15 big ones and then, like, this is what's going on. Well, that.
- [19:39]
Ian
Yeah, that's what's really so amazing about this record, I think. Yeah, you can enjoy and appreciate and love this record kind of on its own just for what it is, which I did, you know, coming to it initially, whenever, 10, 15 years ago, but, like, really understanding now, like, where the rest of the group was in relation to Dennis at this moment. As much as we love the Beach Boys Love youe, which is, you know, brilliant and just as strong of a record in its own weird way. You know, just the kind of power and the fully realized sound and feeling and, like, scent of this record even, you know, it just. It's overwhelming. And so that is a totally, you know, kind of additional dimension, I think, of appreciation for this record that you can have is understanding. Sure. You know, Dennis had a great team of people behind him, but he was playing, you know, so many instruments on this record. Bass, Moog, clabinet, drums, harmonica, tuba, violin, pedal steel guitar, like, all over this thing. And so, I mean, it's just. It's kind of. To me, I'm sort of awestruck that he was able to sort of arrange this whole thing, you know, and lead the effort and put it out as a Dennis Wilson record, you know, compared to what. Yeah, 15 big ones is a pretty good counterpoint to this thing.
- [20:57]
Evan
I don't want to come across. I'm wary of coming across on this episode as being, like, condescending and having this down my nose, looking at this Record. I do want to just sort of acknowledge that I think that there's enough here, like a seriousness and ambition that I'm actually. My critical faculties here are like, not. I'm not dulling them for Dennis here. Like, I want to just talk about the record as like a, you know, does it work or not? And without. I mean, we haven't even talked about the songs yet. But I feel like it's a record that truly wants to be great, which I really admire and I really want to love it. I just, you know, that doesn't always line up.
- [21:45]
Ian
Yeah. And that's fun. You know, some things just, like you can, you know, appreciate a great piece of art, but not, like, love it, then that's, you know, there's no harm, no foul on that. What I will say about this record, just one more kind of idea is, you know, like we were talking about a moment ago, you know, we're already close to the end of Dennis life. This is the only solo record that he ever puts out. You know, officially. Bamboo is, you know, sort of a semi complete sequel that we'll probably do another conversation about down the line. But, you know, this concept 1, 2, 3, 3 record from Caribou or with Caribou from Dennis over the course of a couple years, you know, obviously Dennis should have lived longer. You know, it's the way that his life ends is just a fucking unimaginable tragedy. At the same time, you know, it kind of does fit. And I get, you know, there's a little bit of this with All Things Must Pass, you know, which you brought up earlier, Jason, which I think is a great counterpoint. George obviously goes on to make many additional records there. But, I mean, that really is the George Harrison, you know, solo record that is the statement, you know, that he. That's on his tombstone along with being in the Beatles. It does kind of feel like Pacific Ocean Blue is like. Is the Dennis Wilson solo record and would have always been the Dennis Wilson solo record. And you kind of get 100% of who he is and what he was about out of this one record to me. And that's not to say that he wouldn't have had a brilliant, you know, second and third act of his career, 10, 15, you know, 20 years down the line. But it does sort of feel like everything is kind of put into this and it's one big brilliant push. And, you know, who knows how much gas there was left in the tank beyond, you know, what we have on this one record.
- [23:38]
Jason Woodbury
Yeah, that's a Good way to put it, for sure.
- [23:42]
Ian
Which, on that note, should we. Should we. Should we. I'm going to say dive in, because it's. I mean, we can say that it's Pacific Ocean blue. This is. You know, I know that's common podcaster lingo, but I think this is one record that we actually can dive into.
- [23:58]
Evan
I'm actually looking at the Pacific Ocean right now.
- [24:01]
Ian
Did you do that on purpose?
- [24:03]
Evan
No, no, I'm cat sitting.
- [24:04]
Ian
Oh. Well, how does it look?
- [24:06]
Evan
Is it blue as the day is long?
- [24:08]
Jason Woodbury
That's good to hear. Dennis would be glad.
- [24:16]
Ian
And. Yes, he would.
- [24:18]
Jason Woodbury
He is out there, Reagan. Let him bury Dennis at sea. They got a special rule, a special allowance.
- [24:24]
Ian
So I guess one of the most insane aspects of that whole thing. Unbelievable. Well, I mean, first song, best song.
- [24:35]
Jason Woodbury
River Song.
- [24:35]
Ian
River Song, like, unbelievable.
- [24:38]
Evan
Best song is.
- [24:39]
Ian
I mean, is that. I guess maybe that's. That's a controversial. This is. This song is unbelievable to me. Do you hear this song?
- [24:46]
Evan
It's cool. Sounds like Tiny Dancer at the beginning. Yeah, it's really good. It's good. Again, the production is like, I think. Yeah. The one thing that I'm not going to be criticizing, not the one thing, but one thing I won't be criticizing, is that it. It really has this sound. I mean, you're talking about, like, the scent and the vibe. The record really does have all of that and also, like, its own identity is. It's presented really clearly, but there's not a lack of personality. It feels kind of timeless. Like, it doesn't really feel like an 80s, 70s, 60s leaning record. It's. It doesn't have, like a. That much in the way of signifiers of its cultural moment. It just sounds like Dennis.
- [26:20]
Jason Woodbury
Yeah. I think that we heard them try to do kind of gospel things recently on other records, too. And, you know, Carl and the Passions included some gospel moves on that, but.
- [26:34]
Ian
Who could forget the same song?
- [26:36]
Jason Woodbury
Yeah.
- [26:37]
Ian
Gregorian chance.
- [26:38]
Jason Woodbury
Right. I mean, but here Dennis is spiritually proving their point without having to make everybody sit through that song. Because, like, when I hear River Song, it does sort of sound a little bit like a song that existed before Dennis Wilson wrote it. You know what I mean? It just was kind of floating in the air and he kind of plucked it from the sky. I do think, like, you know, the aquatic metaphors are abundant and the aquatic motifs are abundant on this record, but I feel like this song, you know, I guess that really it's. They've got the Alexander Hamilton and the Double Rock Baptist Choir singing too. You know, among a sea of Dennis Wilson's voice. And I think it's just, like, such a tremendous song. I definitely think that when it's on, it's. I think it's the best song on the record. And then later, there are a couple other moments that I think might even top it for me. But it does come out of the gate pretty hard. And, I mean, when they get into the you got to do it, do it, do it part, I mean, like, you get this sense of. You guys both already sort of alluded to it. It's like each boys could have sounded like this. You know what I mean? Like, this was. This was possible at that same time that they're doing 15 big ones or whatever, you know, so it's like you immediately get a sense of, like, wow. I guess certain people's prominent absence is helpful in this. In this process. You know what I mean? Yeah, we will. We'll get back. Mike Love does make a kind of prominent appearance, at least spiritually, on this record.
- [28:22]
Ian
One song. Yeah, yeah.
- [28:24]
Jason Woodbury
But we can get. We'll get there. I don't want to spoil that one. But his, you know, him, not him. And then, I mean, I love Al and I love the whole crew, but, I mean, it's. It's clear that, like, Dennis had some ideas about how this could work, and this song sort of proves the point. And River Song could have been, like, a huge. I don't know if it would have been a hit. I don't know if anything was going to be a hit for the Beach Boys at this point. As you alluded, this record sold well, outsold the Beach Boys, but didn't, you know, didn't make anybody a bunch of money. And so, I don't know. But as far as I'm concerned, this is definitely one of the. This is one of the highlights. And it just. The drumming specifically gets me going, and it's really a beautiful recording.
- [29:10]
Ian
Yeah, I'm. You know, this song is just Titanic. Like, what I was just saying about, you know, this record being the definitive Dennis Wilson statement, whether or not there were ever additional Dennis Wilson records after this, like, I almost boil that down to this. Like, if this was the only Dennis Wilson song, like, this would be, you know, this would be it here. It's just. It's extraordinary to me. I think that, like, the way that he's. I mean, and this is. You know, we were talking about this a little bit earlier also, you know, Dennis reputation as sort of like, you know, the dummy in the band, the Sex symbol, you know, the himbo, whatever. But. But the way that he's able to, or whoever is able to, whether it's Dennis or Greg Jacobson, who's the co writer with him on a lot of this. Carl, Billy Hinch also producing on here. Whatever combination of people it was, put all of these pieces together in this song in a way that this isn't Pet Sounds or the Beach Boys today or something. But it is big and wide and dramatic in a way that a Beach Boys song hasn't been in many years at this time. And so I think that right away Dennis starts to rebut that sort of, again, simplistic image that people had sold to the culture about him for years at this point, that he was just a singer or just a drummer, just back there having a good time. This is a real. With the choir and the pianos and the synthesizers and the bait. It's just like there's so much going on and it all really comes together. If you told me this was a Brian Wilson production instead of a Dennis Wilson production, I would say, yeah, this is great. This is Brian working at the peak of his powers. But sure enough it's Denny and it's.
- [31:03]
Jason Woodbury
Also one of the production choices. That is so crazy. And I found myself. I had never thought about Pink Floyd while listening to this record, but there's like a real high pitched, wailing vocal at the very end, you know, that really has like a Pink Floydy quality. And it. And it kind of made me realize that like Dennis is leaning in on a kind of. It's not that this is ever doesn't really become like a praggy record, but there are some really strange layering and production techniques that make it murky and psychedelic in a certain sense without like doing that in a showy, ostentatious or like genre specific way. And. And I think that's why so many people bring up Jason Pierce From Spiritualized and Spaceman 3 in regards to this record. Sort of almost like it sounds like like a test run for ladies and gentlemen. We're. We're floating in space or something like that. And I do hear that, you know.
- [32:01]
Evan
What I'm hearing in this. And it's a band that hasn't really come up that much on our program in terms of influences we talk about. But it kind of sounds like you can't always get what you want by the Rolling Stones. Yes, for sure. And that's 69. I feel like the Stones, a lot of times that's not being considered as something A touch point we look to. But I gotta believe that's part of what they're thinking about. What. What Dennis is thinking about what. What Brian's thinking about. He said he loves that song, My Obsession. Brian. A side note like my. My Obsession, the very best song. But the Stones have this thing, like, where every once in a while, like, just when you are just about to be like, yeah, they're just like kind of making blues, then they just make a song that's like, wow, this is one of the best songs ever and one of the best productions ever at the same time. And it's just like a perfectly executed concept. Like, they do have that in them. Like Sympathy for the Devil. You can't always get what you want. Give me Shelter.
- [33:11]
Jason Woodbury
Exile on Main Street's got that song. I Just Want to See His Face, which is only like a minute and 20 seconds long or something. But it was based on. I think there's supposed to be a longer jam, but it's them doing gospel, you know, their version of gospel, strung out gospel. And that's absolutely what Dennis is doing here, too.
- [33:32]
Evan
Memory Motel from Black and Blue. Oh, yeah, that had just come out in 76.
- [33:36]
Jason Woodbury
There you go.
- [33:37]
Evan
The most Dennis Y song, maybe that the Stones ever did.
- [33:41]
Ian
I mean, not a bad band to steal influences from. I think that there's like a. There's like an excess and a, you know, overly dramatic feeling to a lot of this music. River Song maybe is the most. The clearest example of that. And you get that in the Pink floyds in early mid-70s. Stones, for sure. In Zeppelin, let's say. Bands that. Yeah, they're not necessarily our particular corner of rock history on this show. Great bands, obviously. But I think Dennis is pulling from some of that here on this record, clearly, because especially considering those weren't really influences on the Beach Boys. And so I think it makes sense for him to actively kind of try to push against what people might have expected, a Wilson solo record, whichever Wilson it was to sound like.
- [34:43]
Evan
Yeah, it is all conjecture. I just want to point. Make clear. I don't know that he was thinking about the Stones, but. But if you are like a kind of hunky guy who just likes just being like the sex symbol of your band there. And you're. But you do have artistic ambitions. I think the Stones are the model. Like, they. They do do both. They. They have. And they, you know, continue. They continue to. Because they won best album with Hackney Diamonds.
- [35:17]
Ian
That's what I. Yeah, makes a trend there, you know, cutting a Rug lyrically, you know, I think this makes perfect sense for Dennis. I'm not gonna say this is great poetry necessarily, but I just, I love hearing especially this Dennis Wilson. This, you know, torched, tortured Dennis Wilson singing about, you know, ooh, river, Ooh, big river Ooh, mighty river. You know, it breaks my heart to see the city I wonder why it ain't pretty oh, I wanna cry like, that's, I mean, me coming from Dennis, that is actual poetry in it.
- [35:51]
Jason Woodbury
And it is, it's like, it's. It's just, it's just true. He's like, he's like, I gotta get out and I gotta get out into the water. I gotta go. Like, I gotta be in nature. I need to not be in this. He even talks about in la. That's the truth. Like, like you can't see. You can't see because of the small.
- [36:10]
Ian
Bottom block or two. Exactly.
- [36:12]
Jason Woodbury
Yeah. And so, I mean, it's the first.
- [36:14]
Evan
Chapter of Moby Dick right here.
- [36:17]
Jason Woodbury
It's funny because about the mouth. The Beach Boys, at this point, you know, when they often, if they were making like topical music, it was often sort of environmentally, you know, conscious stuff. But I feel like he's doing on River Song something, he's like kind of doing that more effectively than we've heard them do in a lot of ways. Not. Well, not the Beach Boys per se, but it's just. It's just cool to hear a song that. I mean, it isn't like on, on paper, it. You read the lyrics and they seem a little like, oh, yeah, okay, good job, Dennis. But then you hear it like you said, and it's like that magical thing that happens where it's much more than what those words look like on the page. Because in the context of what's happening, I mean, the first like, ooh. That they do, you know, when he does that one, kind of like ad lib, it's like, I don't know, I just think this, he's really, he's into it, man.
- [37:14]
Ian
He's feeling it clearly. And I mean, there is something, you know, just to ponder or to linger a moment just on like his biography at this moment in time. He had the boat, you know, the harmony in the 70s and was sailing that all over the place, you know, up and down the Pacific coast, even out to Hawaii, I think, on occasion. And you know, at the same time, you know, when he was on land, being a land lubber, you know, was kind of just engaged in terribly self destructive behavior, you know, drugs and fights with his wife or his other wife or the band members or what. And so to me, you know, I do actually think I see, like, ocean water. You know, nature in general is not only like this. You know, it's a nice place to get. To get away from, you know, smoggy Los Angeles at this moment in time. But it is for Dennis at this point, like, it's even greater than that. Like, it's like, sort of almost a spiritual piece for him.
- [38:17]
Jason Woodbury
Because it's like a refuge.
- [38:18]
Ian
Exactly. Like a physical refuge as well as a mental and emotional refuge. And so that, I think, really animates the power of a song like this.
- [38:27]
Evan
Breaks my heart to see the city Wonder why it ain't pretty oh, I wanna cry Wanna cry.
- [38:49]
Ian
Beautiful song. River Song. Then we got a little honky tonk here. What's wrong?
- [38:55]
Evan
Nothing wrong with a little honky tonk, if you ask me.
- [38:57]
Ian
This is great. This is like.
- [38:59]
Jason Woodbury
I.
- [38:59]
Ian
It's. It's kind of a funny track, too, because it's sort of. I think when I used to listen to this record years ago, I was sort of disappointed by this song. Cause I'm like, wow. I'm really. I'm so locked in with River Song. This is such a great opener, you know, I can't wait to see where we go from here. And now it's just like, Love the way you move me Love the way you groove me I believe in rock and roll and it's just got this kind of stupid piano riff. I dig it now, but at the time, I remember thinking, like, oh, is this a bit of a letdown?
- [39:34]
Jason Woodbury
I maintain that feeling. I do think that I love this record so much. But if I were in charge of sequencing it, I mean. I guess. I mean, the idea of following River Song with this song is beautiful in a kind of perverse way, I guess. You know, I do appreciate the juxtaposition of this high drama to sort of we're gonna boogie woogie. And don't you guys love those old time, you know, progressions on the. On the piano or whatever? But it's kind of goofy. It's kind of this thing that is, like, intrinsically part of the Beach Boys. Like a hokey song and dance quality that is just, like, there. But I don't. What I will say is, like, do what you want but, baby, don't you do it on me Redeems it enough for me. I'm like, that's a. That's a ridiculous lyric. That sounds great and does work, you know, so it's like, even with a song that's a little bit like, kind of by the by the books, like rock and roll, boogie woogie or whatever, honky tonk kind of thing, he still makes it kind of weird in Dennis y. But it's definitely not my favorite song on the record. And following River Song, but maybe what do you put behind Rivers? What do you put after River Song? You know what I mean? I don't. I don't know.
- [40:53]
Ian
But, yeah, no, I think that's anything, I guess.
- [40:55]
Jason Woodbury
I guess anything.
- [40:57]
Evan
Any old song.
- [40:58]
Ian
If this song is gonn on the record, I think track two, right after River Song is probably the best place to. It's sort of like Steamboat on Holland.
- [41:05]
Jason Woodbury
Yeah, that's a good point.
- [41:07]
Ian
I think it's probably a better song overall than this, but, like, it kind of occupies that same place where, like, you know, Sail On Sailor is such a crazy soaring height to start that. And then we're like, immediately into this, like, oh, well, all right. I guess we're doing this for five minutes now. It's like, if it's gonna be on the record, might as well just get it over with and then get onto the rest of it.
- [41:28]
Jason Woodbury
I wrote in my notes. Nah.
- [41:40]
Evan
Yeah. Well, I do want to just use this moment to bring up that, as I've said in the past with this record has come up as a topic. I think a lot of my resistance to it generally has been because there's a bit of a hyperbolic praise machine for this record, like, to a degree that straight up, like, if you just go and look for online reviews, they. It's just like, this is better than Pet Sounds. Like, people do say that. And I think that part of the reason that happened was probably because, honestly, at the time, this was like a crazy, pleasant surprise compared to what the Beach Boys were up to generally. Like, he really did branch away from them in terms of just having a cool factor and just a je ne sais quoi. Like, he's got style and it left an impression.
- [42:37]
Ian
I think this song is still better than, like, almost anything that's on 15 big one.
- [42:42]
Evan
Now you're defending.
- [42:43]
Ian
Well, yeah, I mean, it's like. It's sort of a stupid, silly lyric, right? But I think musically, like, Hal Blaine is on the drums. There's some great horn work here. You know, Dennis is delivering the horn.
- [42:55]
Evan
Don't get me wrong. It's not that, like, 15 big ones is better than this or. I mean, it's better than that. It's just like. I think we've established now this is. It's, you know, just kind of like this song's okay.
- [43:06]
Ian
Yeah. It's like, this is like a together through life song to me, you know? Yeah. Which is like. That's great. I love Together Through Life. Great record.
- [43:14]
Evan
Yes. Shake, Shake, Mom.
- [43:16]
Ian
That's right. Exactly. You won't ever hear me dispense my wife's hometown.
- [43:19]
Jason Woodbury
Yeah, I don't want to. Totally. I mean, I will say that, like, I. I do think it's a really, really, really good record. And so that is probably my harshest criticism is on what's Wrong, which is to say totally good recording and is cool to listen to, but doesn't reach some of the heights that I think the rest of the record does. But I think it's undeniable that the mythic quality of the nature plays into the romance people bring to it as well as the doomed quality of Dennis himself and how he's from. From the Beach Boys to Manson to his, you know, his all too early passing. He is like a tragic character who has this undeniable darkness around him. But I think what makes this record, and, you know, the more of the songs that follow, you know, part of what makes it work is that darkness is, like, leavened with, like, really good, emotional, heartfelt stuff that sometimes causes the heart to soar. You know, So, I mean, I think. But yeah, he is like. I think that when people listen to this record, they're not just mourning the passing of Dennis or just hearing this record in and of itself. They're. They're bringing the weight of all of it. And the. The stories that we tell about the Beach Boys to the. To the table, most likely.
- [44:42]
Evan
Definitely.
- [44:43]
Jason Woodbury
Yeah. And.
- [44:43]
Evan
And that's, you know, what we do, too. I'm not saying I'm hemming and hawing, but it's like, not a. I feel.
- [44:50]
Ian
You feel defensive on this episode.
- [44:53]
Evan
I'm trying not to overstep when I say certain things because I am anticipating pushback. I know this is a record that people will fight about, fight me on. Like, I'm just saying, like, music people saying musical genius. Like, this is a musical masterwork. A record can be, like, one of my favorite records of all time and also not be, like, a work of musical genius. It's possible to be a vibes genius and not a musical one.
- [45:41]
Ian
Moonshine, of course there's a dent. This, I mean, is like moonshine. Dennis Wilson song called Moonshine is. This is. This is. Yeah, a little on the nose it is, but it's.
- [45:54]
Jason Woodbury
It's like. It's like a stunning song, too. It's, like, so good. And like, it. You know, Dennis is somebody who can. Can. That emotionality can go too far sometimes, and it doesn't come across all the way. The way maybe he means it to, I think, on this song. I mean, I don't even know this line about, like, holds and tickles and hugs out the night. Like, I don't. I. It's. I don't know. I think it's. It's an incredible song. But maybe the best part is when they just do the sort of na, na, na, na na.
- [46:31]
Ian
Absolutely.
- [46:31]
Jason Woodbury
So it's like, it's. To me, you guys have talked about Lou Reed and Bob Dylan on this show. You guys have talked about lyrical geniuses. I don't think I'm coming to the table to say that Dennis Wilson's a lyrical genius on this record. And you can almost prove the point by me saying. The best part is when he's not even saying real words. He's just kind of singing syllables. And, I mean, that is part of how I feel about this record is that, like, I think mentioned, you know, right when we started recording, like, I ended up remembering all the melodies, but not necessarily the lyrics, because there's a thing where it's like, that is a part of it. The lyrics are a part of it. But sometimes the song gets conveyed, you know, past them. They're. They're there to sort of fill up that space. You know what I mean? In certain artists, case in a record, like you said, where the vibe is centered the way it is on this record, because it is a vibey record, first and foremost, I guess. So that's probably a huge part of my attraction to it, now that I think about it.
- [48:06]
Evan
Like, the end of a beautiful day hold some tickles and hugs after night Elder Heart started to cry the audience thought they would die. It was you who said there won't be tomorrow.
- [48:30]
Ian
Absolutely. And we've seen this in encountering this, like, make it good on Carl and the Passions. I think we had the same conversation about, like, that's barely even a song. It is a vibe, you know, and, like, you know, you're. You're clearly into a different kind of world on that song than you are on, you know, he come down or whatever, but it's. I can't. I don't even. I mean, I guess I know he says make it good in that song. I can't tell you a single other word that he sings in that song. But I Know the feeling that it conjures within me. And I think that. I think that's kind of the thing with a lot of this record is that it's very much about that gut emotional reaction to the music, to the performance, to the vocals, maybe more than anything here, because I do. I am legitimately emotionally affected just hearing Dennis do the na na na na na.
- [49:25]
Jason Woodbury
Like, that's incredible stuff, 100%.
- [49:32]
Ian
And he's clearly writing about. This record was written in a period of time when he, you know, had. Was involved in a very sort of like high highs, low lows relationship with a woman named Karen Lamb, who'd been like a supermodel. She actually took the photos, you know, of him on the COVID of this record. Dean Torrance once again, did the. The design of the record. So shout out to. To Dean of Jan Dean, once again, great work on Beach Boys, Love youe and 15 Big Ones as well. But, you know. So this song, I think is. Is. I hesitate to say that Dennis is like a personal songwriter, you know, confessional songwriter necessarily. I don't really think any of the Beach Boys are, to be honest. But I think it is coming from.
- [50:25]
Jason Woodbury
That's definitely. He's definitely in that mode here. I mean, he's being pretty. There are some pretty, I think, just transparently personal lyrics in a way that. Yeah, I don't think that the Beach Boys have done this quite so much. You know what I mean? But I mean, yeah, he was enraptured with her and that was a whole back and forth. She was married to somebody else in Chicago and there was all this, you know, Dennis Wilson esque drama and. And they had a tumultuous, was putting it lightly kind of relationship and all that stuff. So you definitely get the sense that, you know, maybe like new. He's like really in the thrall of new love and, you know. But also kind of like weirdly probably fixated and all the other bad stuff too. I don't know. So I think it comes across on. There's some other songs where he's like, just crooning like, I love you. You know, I think on time later, you know, you're just kind of like. It's almost like mewling, but it ends up being great, you know, and beautiful. So anyway, Moonshine is like kind of like a weird. It's kind of. I mean, it's just great. But it is kind of like a weird song. It's transparent in a way that I think is different for any members of the Beach Boys.
- [51:41]
Evan
It goes in one ear and out the other. I don't remember it ever. I can't remember most of these songs. I cannot remember when you said.
- [51:49]
Ian
When we did the Poops episode.
- [51:50]
Jason Woodbury
Oh, my God.
- [51:51]
Evan
His music has this quality where while I'm listening to it, I'm not thinking about how it's bad or, you know, I'm enjoying it, even, like, oh, this sounds cool. And then I cannot remember the, like, how it goes.
- [52:05]
Ian
I. Yeah, it's not. It's not like a catchy melody type of thing to, you know, this isn't. This isn't. It's okay or anything, but.
- [52:14]
Evan
No, it's. It's not.
- [52:15]
Jason Woodbury
But when he. I mean, when I. When he sings that it was you who said that there won't be tomorrow. Like, I. That star does.
- [52:21]
Ian
Won't be tomorrow.
- [52:22]
Jason Woodbury
That star that sticks with me like, that one like that. I mean, I actually, I agree with you on a certain sense that, like. Like, he's. The dangers, the perils of a Vibey artist, you know, be it a. Whatever, Beach House or whoever, you know, a band that. Where it's, like, about a sort of aesthetic thing is that. Yeah. The danger is that the songwriting kind of ends up taking back seat, maybe to the. To the. To the vibes, resulting in less, like, you know, really memorable stuff. But this one actually hits me, like, so much harder than the last one, like, on that front of, like, being memorable. But I understand what you.
- [53:00]
Evan
Well, yeah, it's. It's also really hard to come to this record and that approach that he has. Having mired ourselves in Brian Wilson productions of, you know, like, the most. The tightest, most dramatically satisfying pop song productions ever made is, like, what we've been using as, like, our gold standard to kind of look at with regard to quality, how we think about quality and the Beach Boys and their career. It's just a different approach, I think is necessary to really kind of get on the level of what this record's about.
- [53:52]
Ian
Beach House is honestly, maybe like, a perfect comparison. I've never made that before, Jason. But, like, you know, you get the kind of, you know, a lot of people have the common. Go to criticism of Beach House is like, every song sounds the same. Every record sounds the same, you know, and for someone, for some people, that's like, you know, that's a criticism. You want some new style, new, you know, instruments or new, I don't know, producer, whatever. But for other people, like, for me, for instance, I love that every Beach House song sounds like Beach House. You Know, it's like, it's such a. It could only ever be the one band, you know, the one combination of Victoria Legrand and Alex Scalli. But if that isn't your flavor, you know, then that's a criticism. Cause it's like, oh, here's this flavor. It's black licorice again. I want chocolate. I want watermelon or something.
- [54:46]
Jason Woodbury
When you think about, like the conceptual ness of a band like that, I mean, it. It. It's kind of like the Ramones. Like, every Ramones song sounds like the Ramones. But if you like the Ramones, chances are you will like something about most Ramones songs, if not all of them, you know, but in this moment, the. The Beach Boys are a band that, you know, Mike famously said, don't fuck with the formula. You know, when it came to Pet Sounds, they were a band that were sort of of, you know, they had the. Every song sounds the same thing going for a while. Right. Like the Beach Boys were. But they were part of a bigger craze or whatever. So I guess what I mean is by this point, he's really. They're synthesizing a lot of kind of crazy stuff into the. In this record. And it creates a record that doesn't really sound like anything else, but does sort of have a simple samey thing that goes in that kind of hovers over the whole proceedings.
- [55:44]
Ian
Yeah, I think it's honestly like, to me, it's sort of like, you know, some people can hear really high pitched, you know, kind of frequencies and some people can't. And I almost kind of feel like you and I. Jason can like hear this frequency and Evan just like can't.
- [55:58]
Jason Woodbury
Well, I'm so curious.
- [56:00]
Ian
Yeah, it just. It is, you know, it sort of is the way that it is.
- [56:03]
Evan
The next song made me laugh a bit when I was listening to it because it sounds like the most solemn. Like we're preparing for something very serious here. It's leading up to a really intense kind of brooding quality. And then it's called Friday Night and it's like, yeah, to Dennis, this is like the most solemnly important thing in the world. This Friday night, baby.
- [56:28]
Ian
That's right.
- [56:29]
Evan
Like a moody slow motion montage of him adjusting his package and his jeans, combing his sideburns in the mirror.
- [57:06]
Jason Woodbury
I don't know what he's describing exactly, but it does. It's. It's got like a weird menace to it to me, and I don't know it. Who are the white punks? You know, they. I Don't know. I don't know exactly what their deal is, but, like, shirts off you. Motorcycle rider, knight hider. Like, I don't. That sounds like he's either he's doing Springsteen or he's doing, like, his idea of what, like, heavy metal might be.
- [57:34]
Evan
Scott Walker song. This is like. It sounds like the electrician, but he's like, just Dennis talking about, like, going to Barney's Beanery to cheat on your wife.
- [57:44]
Jason Woodbury
I mean, and see the white punks play. And like, you know, he believes Jesus is in his soul and all that stuff. But it also. This song and then the next song, which I'm, you know, I'm looking forward to talking about as well. Both remind me of John Martin, specifically. I found myself thinking about him.
- [58:02]
Ian
John Martin. I don't know, the British, like, John.
- [58:05]
Evan
Martin, like Blue Eyed Soul.
- [58:07]
Jason Woodbury
Yeah, well, he was like.
- [58:08]
Evan
He was kind of a. Yeah, he does several things. He has that album, Solid Air that people really adore. Like, probably a big crossover with fans of this record and that.
- [58:19]
Jason Woodbury
I mean, I would guess so, for sure, you know, and he was sort of contemporary of Nick Drake and Pentangle and Fairport Convention, but worked with his wife Beverly, and then started. He really. He popularized using the. The, like a big muff and a looping pedal so he could, like, create these soundscapes. And then he worked with like, Lee Scratch, Perry and eventually, you know, you know, Eric Clapton and like, other people. But anyway, this has got this, like. He's got. It's kind of a weird, menacing, spooky thing. I'm glad you brought Scott Walker up because I definitely hear it's got that weird, like. I don't.
- [58:59]
Ian
He's.
- [58:59]
Jason Woodbury
It seems like he's. It's almost like a. Like the. Like he's doing his version of like a.
- [59:03]
Evan
Like Night Flights. It's a little bit like. Night Flights.
- [59:06]
Jason Woodbury
Yes. Yeah.
- [59:06]
Ian
Yeah.
- [59:06]
Evan
Which was around this time. I mean, there are certain things which, you know, it's doubtful that he. He was listening to Scott Walker records, but I think that there's a lot of things that happen in periods that are just kind of like, it's in the air. Probably someone he listening to is listening to Scott, and these things just kind of bleed into each other.
- [59:28]
Jason Woodbury
That's true. And I wouldn't. I don't know. I mean, I would love to know whether or not he ever heard Scott Walker because, like, maybe the Walker Brothers and the Beach Boys would have maybe considered themselves somewhat in the same sphere of like, just sort of teeny bopper pop Music, Right. So I wonder, was he watching what Scott was doing, going like, well, how's this guy navigating the. The changing marketplace? I wonder.
- [59:55]
Evan
I brought this up on the show before and I would actually love it if you came on for this episode because it's been a dream of mine of doing an episode about lines by the Walker Brothers, which is their 1976 album that's intensely sad and has this awful cover of them. It's wood, wood panel. It's like the most 19. It's very similar in vibes. Like what's going on with the Beach Boys from this like dark shag carpet Exile.
- [60:29]
Jason Woodbury
When we were talking about. About the manager whose name I just completely. Garcio. He was talking about being on tour with the Beach Boys and Chicago and he was like, Chicago were like destroying their dressing rooms. And then meanwhile in the Beach Boys dressing room, it was like a haven with Mike Love in there doing Maharishi shit. And I thought that was so funny because like you're describing the sort of plush carpet Exile because he was like, yeah, that was going on. And there was also a lot of drug problems in the Beach Boys, but it was contempt. It was like relatively tame compared to what I was dealing with in the other band or whatever, which is just so hilarious.
- [61:09]
Evan
Yeah. One of the members was not getting himself in trouble in that kind of way anyway.
- [61:15]
Jason Woodbury
Right. And yeah, it's so funny thinking about, like, what. Because like doing the Carl and the Passions episode inspired me to kind of get back more into doing my TM meditations and stuff. And one of the funniest things about it is I look in the app where it says, like, the reasons I do it. And it's like to reduce stress. And it struck upon me talking with my wife who's also meditating, that like Mike Love probably did need to do it just for the sort of stress relieving benefits given his co workers, you know what I mean? Because like, that's one thing. As much as we can dunk on Mike Love and as much as he earns the dunking, he did have a tough job in a certain sense, you know what I mean?
- [61:59]
Evan
And he's alive still and still touring. And we're talking about someone who, I mean, come on, like, the reasons not to like blame here and talk like, have that. That's not what I mean. But let's be real, like chaotic stuff. Chaotic relationships to substances, chaotic most certainly lifestyle.
- [62:23]
Jason Woodbury
Yeah, it's life ways.
- [62:25]
Evan
Like there's this. We have to. I mean, I think just Be honest about, like, it's possible to overreact and kind of clamp down and then be known as the hard ass. But that sometimes is also how you just survive, is to not. Not allow yourself. Not get into certain things.
- [62:45]
Ian
Mike was, you know, trying to make a record at this time, too, but as we heard, not. Not much interest in it from the labels. And so he was. He had to go over to Switzerland to do his meditation and levitation training with. With the Maharishi.
- [63:00]
Jason Woodbury
Yeah, the yogic. The yogic. Jumping is a. Is a. Is interesting. An interesting thing.
- [63:07]
Ian
Let's call this one here because we've already gone over an hour and we are four songs in. And we'll throw this into a second part like we did last time with Carl. Jason, thank you so much for joining us for this dive. Deep dive. I'm getting away with it again into Pacific Ocean Blue. Any places you want people to check out online?
- [63:29]
Jason Woodbury
Oh, yeah. I would love it if Everybody checked out. Aquariumdrunker.com and I'm involved with a project called Wastoids. We're doing all sorts of interesting stuff in partnership with our friends at hello Merch. And so, yeah, check those spots out. And like. Like Yui. And I'm over on Substack as well, trying to do stuff more over there. Feels like it's picking up steam and it's slightly less annoying than Blue sky, which is abysmally annoying. But, yeah, so. But I'm on Bluesky too, if you want to go over there.
- [64:05]
Ian
It's all bad options out there.
- [64:07]
Jason Woodbury
It's kind of bad options. Substack gives you the freedom to do some kind of fun stuff, and you can just. I'm just sort of using it as a way to share older pieces I've written and things that I'm kind of kind of feeling now and then and. Or, you know, piggybacking off the podcast. But yeah, of course, Aquarium Drunkard transmissions as well.
- [64:24]
Ian
Yeah. You guys are in new season right now. You had Bonnie Prince Billy on. I know. It's good stuff.
- [64:29]
Jason Woodbury
Yeah. Bonnie Prince Billy, Lucy Santa Adrian, say, Adrian Young and Ali Shahid Muhammad, and just recently, Lonnie Holly. And we've got some great episodes coming up.
- [64:41]
Evan
Lonnie Holly.
- [64:42]
Jason Woodbury
Oh, and Steve Lillywhite. YouTube producer. Dave Matthews Band producer. Fish producer.
- [64:47]
Ian
Wow.
- [64:47]
Jason Woodbury
One of my favorite episodes, actually, that we've ever done. And I only talked to him about Dave MatthewS for, like, 45% of the interview, so that's. I know that's who you guys are probably going to do next when you finish the. The Beach Boys dmv. So I'll come back for.
- [65:04]
Evan
Yeah, he's next in line.
- [65:05]
Ian
Yeah, we'll get you back for that. Well, thanks again, Jason. We'll see you on the other side. Folks. On Jokerman.
- [65:13]
Evan
What's that feeling down inside of me? Food for my soul she made me happy she made me mad Heads up to the drum of Little Lady Sugar. All alone. White box play tonight.