JOKERMEN PODCAST
Episode: In Conversation: CARL NEWMAN
Date: April 3, 2026

Episode Overview

In this special episode of Jokermen, host Ian sits down with Carl (A.C.) Newman, founder and principal songwriter of Canadian indie rock stalwarts the New Pornographers. The conversation arrives in the wake of the band’s new album, The Former Site of the New Pornographers, a record shaped by loss, impermanence, and the complexities of living and working in the modern world. The discussion weaves from Newman's songwriting process and reflections on band history, to broader cultural questions about art, identity, and the role of technology. The tone is intimate, thoughtful, candid, and at times gently humorous—a fitting tone given both the podcast and its guest.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Carl Newman's Early Reception and Band Identity

• Ian opens with personal lore: listening to the New Pornographers as a teenager, introduced by his father, and the band’s striking name (03:18).
• Carl jokes about wanting to seem dangerous to kids and weird to adults:

  “That was all part of the plan to seem dangerous to kids, just weird to adults.” (04:05, Carl Newman)

2. Release of the New Album and Handling Public Reception

• The new album, The Former Site of the New Pornographers, was released March 27, 2026 (04:23).
• Carl receives feedback via press “pull quotes” but avoids reading full reviews:

  “I use the word Zen to describe it. I try not to let the good or the bad... have that much of an effect on how I feel about the music.” (05:47, Carl Newman)

• He’s learned to “appreciate the people that like us,” and to not dwell on criticism or praise (06:14).

3. Making the Album: Delays, Evolution & Impermanence

• The recording process stretched out due to scheduling, notably waiting months for Nico Case’s contributions (08:30-08:55).
• The songs were mixed, revisited, and reworked as life events unfolded:

  “There was a point where I thought the record was almost done and I couldn’t get Nico... to call me back. Literally a year, waiting for her to sing on it.” (08:55, Carl Newman)

• Newman reflects on how the songs were shaped by personal and collective loss, and how their themes intertwined with real events (10:29).

4. Themes: Loss, Impermanence, & Coping Mechanisms

• Many songs meditate on “dealing with loss,” impermanence, and change:

  “A lot of these songs are just trying... not even overcoming loss, like, how do we deal with loss?” (11:03, Carl Newman)

• He tried to write explicitly about a recent tragedy but found lyrics worked best obliquely, especially regarding the impact of social media (11:45).
• On “Calligraphy”:

  “I think was very much about social media in the way that we, I guess very literally, how poisonous it is.” (11:45, Carl Newman)

• Efforts were made not to sound self-pitying or whiny about online backlash, highlighting others’ pain and the broader toxicity of internet culture (13:49).

5. Tech: Double-Edged Sword

• Carl acknowledges technology’s benefits, especially for music discovery (15:04):

  “It just plays music that it thinks you would like... so much great music that I’ve never heard of.” (15:11, Carl Newman)

• He delights in finding new (and cheap) records via Apple’s Discovery feature but laments the arbitrary value spikes in vinyl (16:41).

6. Parenthood, Growing Older, and Family Bonds

• Both Ian and Carl reflect on how parenting (and being parented) intersects with music (18:31, 23:10).
• Carl notes the fleeting experience of his son’s adolescence, fueling the album’s themes:

  “You have to realize... like my son’s in his early teens, and I think... we don’t get much of this. Like, him being this age—we only get it once in the history of mankind... trying to appreciate everything as it’s passing through.” (23:10, Carl Newman)

7. Band Dynamic: Change & Continuity

• The New Pornographers’ impermanence has always been part of their essence—members leaving and rejoining, roles shifting (24:47, 27:50).
• Despite changes, Carl sees continuity in his own sustained creative drive:

  “There is something to me that is very permanent about the band where I think, like, I will always be here... wanting to make New Pornographers records. And if people don’t want them anymore, well, I don’t really care.” (29:11, Carl Newman)

8. On Songwriting: For Oneself First

• Cites Rick Rubin’s “make the record for yourself” advice:

  “You have to make the record for yourself. Like, it has to be for yourself above all things...” (30:09, Carl Newman)

• Ian likens this philosophy to artists like Bob Dylan, especially those whose decades-spanning discographies evolve past audience/fashion (31:06).

9. Art, Work, and Gratitude

• Carl feels lucky to make a living from music, appreciating the freedom his career has afforded (33:58):

  “It’s great to be able to just make music and not worry about it, or even having a home studio... I feel pretty grateful about it.” (35:41, Carl Newman)

10. Society, Work, and Luck

• Both host and guest reflect on how most people work unrewarding jobs, and the “luck” involved in doing what you love (36:58-41:05).
• Carl shares an anecdote about his dad, who worked jobs just to support the family—a motif that’s both grounding and humbling (40:47).

11. Canadian Identity & Indie Rock ‘Scene’

• Despite being labeled a “Canadian supergroup,” Carl doesn’t see the New Pornographers as uniquely national, more as a Vancouver band (43:05).
• Early 2000s “scene” was more media construct than interconnected community; respect among bands like Broken Social Scene existed but so did distance (45:16).

12. Influences: Leonard Cohen, Writing Process, and Defining Canadian Songwriters

• Carl singles out Leonard Cohen as the major influence on the new record’s lyrics and approach:

  “If there was anybody who was, if there was any songwriter, was the biggest influence on this new record, I’d say it was Leonard Cohen.” (50:29, Carl Newman)

• Praises Cohen’s “storytelling, surreal but evocative” lyrics, his humor, and songs like “Sisters of Mercy,” “Hallelujah,” “Suzanne,” and “Hey, That’s No Way to Say Goodbye” (50:43-52:01).
• Argues that the Cohen-Mitchell-Young trio are as strong as any American songwriting pantheon (49:04).

13. Musical Craft: Melodic Restraint & Writing for Context

• Carl is less “precious about melody” these days, prioritizing lyrical intent and song context over catchiness (54:28):

  “Bonus Mai Tais... had a chorus that was arguably more catchy at some point, but I remember thinking, it doesn’t match... It had a melody and I thought it sounds too jaunty... it’s a very sad moment.” (55:51-56:08)

• Adapting song structure and melody to fit the mood, with less pressure for every song to be a hook-heavy single (56:07).

14. State of Indie Rock: From Gatekeepers to Averageness

• Carl and Ian reflect on shifts in indie rock and music culture, noting a decentralization and flattening of taste as traditional “gatekeepers” like Pitchfork lose influence (57:53–61:22).
• Carl’s “theory”:

  “To do well in music, you have to be the best at being average.” (60:52, Carl Newman)

• Cites Springsteen and Billy Joel as examples—average guys for the average listener, but still excellent at their craft.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Zen and Public Reception:
  “I try not to let the good or the bad... have that much of an effect on how I feel about the music.” (05:47, Carl Newman)

• On Internet Toxicity:
  “The world is not psychologically... the internet does not make people psychologically healthy.” (13:44, Carl Newman)

• On Parenting and Time:
  “You have to realize... we only get him being this age once in the history of mankind... trying to appreciate everything as it’s passing through.” (23:10, Carl Newman)

• On Artistic Purpose:
  “You have to make the record for yourself. Like, it has to be for yourself above all things...” (30:09, Carl Newman)

• On Luck and Music as a Life:
  “If she has her job and I make some money making music... then, you know, we’re okay. There’s not a lot resting on my shoulders anymore, and that helps.” (33:58, Carl Newman)

• On Canadian Songwriters:
  “If an American had to pit their top three writers against Joni Mitchell, Leonard Cohen and Neil Young, I’m not sure they would win that fight.” (49:04, Carl Newman)

• On Songwriting Evolution:
  “I’ve been less precious about melody these days... just trying to find that balance.” (54:28, Carl Newman)

• On Today’s Music Climate:
  “To do well in music, you have to be the best at being average. And I stand by it.” (60:52, Carl Newman)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00–03:16 | Introduction, personal significance of the New Pornographers, origins of host’s fandom.
• 04:23–07:00 | New album release, reactions, philosophy on handling press.
• 08:17–10:18 | Fractured recording process, delays, the challenge of collaboration.
• 10:29–14:43 | Thematic focus: loss, coping with change, effects of tragedy and social media.
• 15:03–16:46 | Technology’s upside: music discovery, vinyl collecting.
• 18:31–23:09 | Parenting, adolescence and appreciating the passage of time.
• 24:47–29:11 | Band evolution: impermanence, history of membership changes, long-term vision.
• 29:11–33:58 | Making art for oneself, music as a lifelong pursuit.
• 33:58–37:52 | Life comfort, luck, work, and music as a calling vs. necessity.
• 43:05–46:44 | “Canadian Supergroup” label, history of Canadian indie in the 2000s.
• 47:32–50:06 | Canadian songwriter pantheon—Cohen, Mitchell, Young vs. Dylan, Wilson, et al.
• 50:29–54:03 | Leonard Cohen’s influence on songwriting, lyric process.
• 54:03–56:45 | Musical style shift towards lyricism and “fitting the feeling.”
• 57:06–61:22 | The “averageness” concept, state of indie, the loss of tastemakers.
• 61:49–end | Billy Joel as average everyman, closing thanks and father-son musical bonding.

Conclusion

This episode offers a deep, nuanced look into Carl Newman's creative mind and the ever-evolving landscape of indie rock, art, and personal life. It showcases the enduring power of his songwriting, the thoughtful philosophy behind his artistic choices, and the band’s ongoing evolution, all leavened with a sense of humility and gratitude—making it a compelling listen for both diehard fans and those new to the world of the New Pornographers.