Jokermen Podcast – In Conversation: CATE LE BON

Date: September 22, 2025
Host: Ian (Jokermen)
Guest: Cate Le Bon

Episode Overview

In this episode, Jokermen’s Ian sits down with acclaimed Welsh musician Cate Le Bon to discuss her forthcoming album Michelangelo Dying, her enduring relationship with her artistic heroes (most notably John Cale), and the evolution of her songwriting, production style, and performance practices. The conversation offers an intimate look at Cate’s artistic process, her influences, the importance of collaboration, and her thoughts on creativity, touring, and the role of mystery in music.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Cate Le Bon’s Connection to John Cale and Welsh Artistic Heritage

• John Cale as Influence and Collaborator

  • Cate recalls her early exposure to The Velvet Underground and, later, to Cale’s solo work, describing a near “religious” devotion to his artistry.

    "He's a wonder, you know... completely, you know. Yes, he is Welsh, but that never made him more knowable. It was still this kind of fantastical element to him."
    — Cate Le Bon, [03:50]

  • Cate shares the emotional story of being contacted by Cale, which prompted an immediate, tearful reaction out of disbelief and excitement:

    "I just remember crying in the workshop... this mythical idol... was looking for me."
    — Cate Le Bon, [07:01]

  • The collaboration began with Cate performing at the Barbican with Cale, later touring with him and being tasked with singing “Sunday Morning.” The relationship culminates in Cale contributing vocals to her new album.

    "Only John Cale can make me cry."
    — Cate Le Bon, [11:14]

• Artistic Inspiration from Cale’s Approach

  • Cate admires Cale’s artistic evolution, constant reinvention, and refusal to dwell in nostalgia.

    "He's constantly exploring, isn't he?... You don't get much retrospectiveness from John... he wants to play new stuff."
    — Cate Le Bon, [12:24]

• Favorite John Cale Albums

  • Cate lists Fear, Paris 1919, Artificial Intelligence, and especially "Dying on the Vine" as personal favorites.

    "It's a masterpiece. It might be one of mine."
    — Cate Le Bon, [13:54]

2. Cate Le Bon as Producer & Collaborator

• Emergence as a Producer

  • Production began with helping friends (notably H. Hawkline/Huw Evans), eventually leading to working with Bradford Cox (Deerhunter), Tim Presley, Devendra Banhart, John Grant, and Wilco.

    "I don't really want to be a producer, but I really enjoy it."
    — Cate Le Bon, [19:54]

  • She emphasizes learning from deeply engaged collaborations, noting Bradford Cox and Jeff Tweedy (“the real deal”) as especially impactful.

    "Spending time with someone like Jeff... you learn a lot about life."
    — Cate Le Bon, [19:24]

  • Recent production work includes the new Dry Cleaning album and playing with Andrew Savage.

3. Signature Sound: Collaborators and Instrumentation

• Evolving Band Dynamics

  • Saxophonist Euan (Ewan) Hinchliffe, long-time collaborator, is described as offering a “second voice” on her records:

    "Especially with this last record... it's those parts that I don’t have maybe the... words to express something. I feel like the saxophone takes over and does that for me."
    — Cate Le Bon, [24:11]

  • The cross-pollination of musicians between her projects and peers is a recurring motif, creating a sense of an artistic “network”:

    “It's like everyone's working together towards this end... sometimes that music pops up on one person's record and sometimes it pops up on someone else's record.”
    — Ian, [25:03]

4. Making ‘Michelangelo Dying’: Creative Process & Emotional Themes

• Birth of the Album

  • The record took longer than anticipated—Cate describes it as a “hard plane to land,” shaped by personal heartache and emotional catharsis.

    “It wasn't the record that I thought I was going to write... it became a vessel to kind of experience and heal from heartache.”
    — Cate Le Bon, [26:59]

  • The process included multiple mixing sessions (including in Joshua Tree), and Cate notes the music and the desert landscape are, for her, intertwined.

    “Every day you wake up there, it feels like you're struck with this kind of like, ‘oh, my god, I am so small and insignificant in a really reassuring way.’”
    — Cate Le Bon, [34:01]

• Approach to Albums Since Reward (Trilogy Feel)

  • Cate acknowledges a trilogy-like continuity between Reward, Pompeii, and Michelangelo Dying, marked by meticulous, solitary songcraft, and a new focus on sonic detail:

    “To me, Reward feels like my first record in many ways, you know, as a solo artist.”
    — Cate Le Bon, [41:52]

• Songwriting & Title Selection

  • Her album titles (e.g., Crab Day, Mug Museum, Michelangelo Dying) are chosen for their evocative and open-ended quality:

    “It's nice when people can kind of figure out their own meaning... it's such a ridiculous title... and I guess that lends itself to how ridiculous and over the top heartache can feel.”
    — Cate Le Bon, [36:02]

5. The Live Experience & Touring Philosophy

• Cate prioritizes reproducing the sonic world of her records in live performance, assembling an outstanding, emotionally resonant band.

  “I want it to sound like the record. I want it to feel like, you know, that world that I built...”
  — Cate Le Bon, [44:11]

• She cherishes touring with friends and views it as an adult “holiday”:

  “To me, it’s like an amazing holiday adults don’t usually get... you get to play music.”
  — Cate Le Bon, [47:43]

• Notable contrast in US versus UK/European touring:

  “There just seems to be a younger, more diverse... more excitable, excited crowd in America.”
  — Cate Le Bon, [48:40]

6. Audience, Social Media, and the Value of Mystery

• Cate expresses ambivalence toward social media as an artist-audience bridge and emphasizes appreciating mystery:

  “That kind of transference of energy between an audience and a band is like magic... the social media kind of world, it dilutes that.”
  — Cate Le Bon, [52:14]

• On artistic progression and audience relationships:

  “It's like shedding a skin when you make something, and then you do it and then you move on... I like forward motion. I like looking forward to the next thing.”
  — Cate Le Bon, [51:12]

• She avoids explaining her songs’ meanings, preferring listeners create their own interpretations:

  “You make something, you let it go. It doesn't belong to you anymore.”
  — Cate Le Bon, [54:34]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On John Cale’s Artsitic Evolution:

  “It's like he... shedding his skin and he moves on. You know, it's this constant kind of movement and fluidity and curiosity...”
  — Cate Le Bon, [03:50]

• On the Significance of Sonic Relationships:

  “The saxophone being maybe the, you know, the second voice on the record... those parts that I don’t have maybe the. The voice or the words to kind of express... the saxophone takes over and does that, you know, for me.”
  — Cate Le Bon, [24:11]

• On Album Titles and Ambiguity:

  “It's like a full on opera when you’re in the midst of [heartache]... there are reasons for it [the title] that I probably would never share with anyone.”
  — Cate Le Bon, [36:02]

• On the Live Experience vs. Social Media:

  “…To me, the social media kind of world, it kind of dilutes [the magic]... the wonder of that I think is kind of lost because... everyone is pulling the curtain back and is available all the time...”
  — Cate Le Bon, [52:14]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:00–02:31] — Introduction by Ian & discussion of the new album
• [03:50–14:02] — Cate reflects on John Cale, their relationship, and Welsh music
• [16:00–21:27] — Cate’s evolution as a producer/collaborator and friendships with other artists
• [21:27–26:15] — The role of saxophonist Ewan Hinchliffe & collaborative networks
• [26:59–32:19] — Making of Michelangelo Dying: artistic process, emotional context, recording/mixing locations
• [35:17–39:07] — Album titling, relation to previous work, “trilogy” concept
• [44:11–46:47] — Assembling the live band, recreating studio sound on tour
• [47:43–50:13] — Touring experience in the US vs. Europe
• [51:12–54:34] — Thoughts on social media, artistic mystery, and audience connection
• [54:34–56:00] — Letting go of work, ceding meaning to audience

Conclusion

This episode serves as a deep dive into Cate Le Bon's creative universe, exploring the tension between transparency and mystery, the emotional forces driving her writing and producing, and the significance of community in her art. Listeners come away with a sense of her meticulous approach, reverence for collaboration (especially with Welsh icon John Cale), and a rare commitment to preserving magic and wonder both in the music itself and in her connection with her audience.

For more: Cate Le Bon’s new record Michelangelo Dying is out Friday, September 26th, 2025 on Mexican Summer.

End of Summary