Jokermen Podcast: In Conversation with Daniel Lopatin (Oneohtrix Point Never)

Date: December 29, 2025
Episode Focus: Scoring "Marty Supreme," Creative Processes, Hauntology, and More

Main Theme & Purpose

This episode of Jokermen brings Daniel Lopatin—celebrated as Oneohtrix Point Never and most recently the composer for "Marty Supreme"—into an in-depth conversation about scoring the film, the philosophy and aesthetics behind his musical decisions, the film's ambitious fusion of periods and genres, and broader threads through his discography. The hosts (Evan and co-host) explore how the score subverts historical expectations, meaningfully connects to themes of creation and nostalgia, and builds on both Lopatin’s personal history and wider cultural references. The discussion is laid-back, geeky, and intellectually expansive, echoing Jokermen’s signature style.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. "Marty Supreme" as a Singular Film Event

• [00:37] Hosts praise "Marty Supreme" as "movie of the year," lauding Timotheé Chalamet’s "blow away performance."
• The film channels the bold innovation and charisma of a young Jewish artist in 1950s NYC, likened to Bob Dylan "going electric" ([01:35]).

2. Score as Anachronistic Genius

• [02:52] The score blends 1980s synthesizers with the look and feel of a 1950s period piece.
• Lopatin explains:
  “It’s not unlike what I would imagine a Donald Fagen music video would be like in the 80s… Nightfly.” ([13:49])
• The intention was deliberately to "disrespect" period accuracy, unlocking a dreamlike, future-haunted tension in the film.
  “Who are we trying to impress here?... No, let’s actually kind of disrespect [the period]. And immediately we were happy and everything was unlocked…” ([13:59])

3. Film’s Dense, Meta Layers and Casting

• [03:33] Lopatin shares how repeated viewings exposed layers: focusing on costumes, set design, and cameos (e.g., Isaac Mizrahi, Nomi Fry, Larry "Ratso" Sloman).
• Extended riff (04:47–06:13) on Ratso Sloman—a recurring figure in music and media—emphasizing the movie’s “Renaissance man" energy and wild cameos.

4. Marketing, Publicity, and Meta-Performance

• The famous blimp in the film’s marketing is discussed.
  Lopatin reveals: “They want to put all of us in the blimp... I thought it was like, basically a threat.” ([07:25])
• Timothée Chalamet is highlighted for his genius in turning potentially awkward PR into meta-performance art, embodying the spirit of the film.

5. Chalamet’s Performance as Artistic Athleticism

• [10:09] Lopatin describes Chalamet as treating acting with the discipline and charisma of an Olympic athlete:
  “It’s like a completely bizarre return to a time of brazen enjoyment of one celebrity and one skill... It’s actually... genuine.” ([10:53])
• The hosts note the “joyous” and “refreshingly non-arrogant” tone of his performance.

6. Compositional Choice: Texture, Rhythm, and Synthesis

• [13:49–18:00] Lopatin details his process:
  • Rejected period-authentic orchestration for 80s-influenced synths and mallets.
  • The interplay between classical and electronic modernity becomes a metaphor for Marty’s identity—projecting a “dream of himself” into the future.
  • Inspiration from needle drops (e.g., Tears for Fears) and textural experiments with hundreds of synthesized “mallet” sounds.

7. Hauntology, Nostalgia, and Inversion

• [19:28] Deep dive into hauntology—the sense of being haunted not by the past but by possible futures.

• Evan ties this to Donald Fagen’s "Nightfly":
  “It’s like this song about his childhood dreams...from the point of view of a kid in the 50s being told that...you’ll have this utopian world to look forward to.” ([21:30])

• Quote:
  “In Marty Supreme... it’s not the past coming back and haunting the present. It’s like Marty Mouser is invoking the future, and we as an audience are haunted by the future that’s in the present of the 50s.” — Daniel Lopatin ([21:30])

8. The Necessary Dream and Melancholy

• [22:18–24:14] The hosts and Lopatin emphasize the film's emotional core:
  • Dreams aren’t about achieving exactly what’s wanted, but about fueling growth—
    “You need to dream so that you’ll find yourself somewhere, period... The dream is necessary to even give you the libido for life.” — Lopatin ([23:40])
  • The ending is described as unexpectedly optimistic, contrasting with the doom-laden conclusion of "Uncut Gems."

9. Texture, Childhood, and Musical Influence

• [28:07] Discussion of how 80s educational and commercial music, as well as the specific synthesizers (Juno-60, Yamaha DX), shaped both Lopatin’s childhood and the film’s sound.
• Lopatin shares personal anecdotes about growing up around music and his father’s keyboard, “Judy” ([32:05]).

10. Album Art, Abstraction, and Visual Language

• [35:27–39:10] Talk shifts to abstract and meaningful album art (e.g., “Tranquilizer”), the synergy between image and sound, and the importance of covering chaos with order and structure.
• The painting on the cover of "Tranquilizer" is revealed to be “a tractor tilling the soil,” symbolizing both chaos and creation.

11. Cosmology & Influence: Kubrick, Film, and World-building

• [42:10–48:11] Lopatin connects his “universe-building” to directors like Kubrick, Tarantino, Lynch:
  “I tended to think about art careers as these kind of...canonical sort of, okay, you’re going to take your shot at this trope or this idiom or this genre. But...the heart is coming from the director’s point of view...” ([42:33])
• Kubrick’s lavish detail and emotional layers, especially in "Eyes Wide Shut", are compared to Lopatin’s approach to electronic music—“be as generous with...every 4, 8 bar loop...as Kubrick is with a frame.” ([47:20])

12. World-building and Narrative in Lopatin’s Catalog

• “Garden of Delete” as a rock opera ([49:13]); elaborate rollouts and storytelling.
• Desire for each album to be its own universe, with interlinked throughlines.

13. Themes of Creation, Integrity, and the Artist’s Path

• [51:55–54:08] Film is seen as fundamentally about “creation” and negotiating compromise and integrity;
  • The narrative resonates as "the birth of a sport, the birth of a sense of self, and ultimately, the creation of something bigger than one character."

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the film’s score:
  “We briefly talked about sort of adhering to some sort of...mid-century score. And immediately just, just felt like it was cringy and boring...No, let’s actually kind of disrespect the timeline here.” — Daniel Lopatin ([13:59])
• On Marty’s dream of the future:
  “It’s not the past coming back and haunting the present. It’s like Marty Mouser is invoking the future and we as an audience are haunted by the future that’s in the present of the 50s.” — Daniel Lopatin ([21:30])
• On the role of dreams in life:
  “The dream is necessary to even give you the libido for life that gets you to where you may have not known you were going.” — Lopatin ([23:40])
• On artistic generosity:
  “Every inch of a Kubrick movie is gratuitously generous...If that’s not warmth, I don’t know what is. That always really influenced me with the OPN stuff—be as generous with...every 4, 8 bar loop...as Kubrick is with a frame.” — Daniel Lopatin ([47:20])
• On building musical universes:
  “I want them to feel like universes, like the excitement I felt when I was going to go see Kill Bill...What is the next chapter?” — Lopatin ([43:49])

Highlighted Timestamps

• 00:38–02:00—Opening praise for "Marty Supreme"; Timothée Chalamet as Bob Dylan-esque lead.
• 07:10–09:24—The blimp, meeting anecdotes, and Chalamet’s meta-performance.
• 13:08–18:00—Discussion of the score's anachronism, synthesizer choices, poetic intent.
• 19:28–21:30—Hauntology and how Marty Supreme flips nostalgia into future-haunting.
• 22:18–24:14—Musings on dreams, disappointment, and life's direction; the emotional core of the film.
• 28:04–31:49—Synthesizer talk: Juno-60, Yamaha DX, 1980s sounds, and childhood memories.
• 35:27–39:10—Album artwork analysis (Tranquilizer cover and Abner Herzberger).
• 42:10–48:11—Influence of Kubrick and the desire to create musical/cinematic universes.
• 54:08–55:16—"Marty Supreme" as a film about creation, birth, and artistic integrity.

Tone & Style

Conversational, deeply engaged, encyclopedic, humorous, and warmly self-deprecating (“music is like the cowardly artist’s film… you don’t have to work with anybody” — Lopatin [48:30]). The hosts are unabashed music and film nerds, while Lopatin embodies both the meticulous composer and the playful pop-culture philosopher. The dialogue is densely referential but remains approachable, circling big ideas with wit and depth.

For New Listeners

This episode is a must for fans of film scores, cultural criticism, and synth music. It unpacks not only the construction of one of 2025’s most distinctive films, but also the secret histories behind Lopatin’s work, touching on everything from hauntology and Donald Fagen to Kubrick, Jet Set Radio, and the joys of making weird, beautiful music nobody expected to succeed.