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- [00:00]
A
Welcome back to Jokerman in conversation, I'm Ian. Double shot of interview episodes coming your way this week. Just sort of the way that stars ended up aligning on our end today on the program, Daniel Rawson, better known as one of the members, one of the leaders of Grizzly Bear, a band that I assume for many of my fellow millennials out there needs no introduction, but to give them one nonetheless. One of the seminal indie rock acts of the that classic, you know, 2006-2012 ish era. Of course, one of the three points of the iconic 2009 triangle consisting of Animal Collective, Dirty Projectors and themselves and Grizzly Bear. I've been listening to them for, you know, years at this point, close to 20, which is sort of crazy to. And so when they announced a. Don't call it a reunion tour, but a tour that consisted of the band members reuniting, when they announced that, you know, I said, you know, I gotta go, gotta catch one of these shows. I was fortunate enough to see them right here in beautiful San Francisco at the Warfield Theater, where, of course, as I remark often, Bob Dylan played a legendary series of fire and brimstone Christian era gigs. But it was fantastic show, one of the best I've seen in. In quite some time. Just loud, loud. They. Daniel mentions a little bit about this in the interview because the sound guy likes to crank the levels here and there occasionally. But lucky for me, you know, he. Daniel's actually, I think something of an actual listener of Jokerman or has become one over the last little while. So wanted to take the opportunity to grab him, debrief on this excellent run of shows that they just finished playing. Reflect, you know, a little bit on a life as an indie rock star. You know, I guess he might be embarrassed to hear me call him that, but that is, you know, at least an indie rock star. I think that that qualifies. And then, you know, maybe look, look forward into the future for himself and for Grizzly Bear. No promises, no plans on the horizon, but sounds like this tour, you know, went really well for everyone. I can attest, having seen it, it went fucking great from the audience. And so, you know, maybe we'll have a future with a little more Grizzly Bear music in it, live on record. One way or another. Lord knows that would make for a better world for us all. Here's Daniel. Daniel Rossin, thank you so much for joining us here on Jokerman.
- [03:32]
B
Yeah, thanks for having me.
- [03:33]
A
A pleasure is. Pleasure is Alma. And I remember, I saw, I don't Know, a couple months ago, at this point a while ago, I saw your name pop up on the old Instagram notification section that you gave the. Gave the joker an account to follow. And I was, you know, my heart fluttered a little bit. Cause it's always a treat when someone that I've been listening to, you know, favorite artist of mine from years ago, you know, seems to tune into what we're doing here. So let me just say up front, you know, it's. I'm flattered that you listen and that you're here to talk to me.
- [04:03]
B
Yeah, no, I love the show. I've been enjoying it the last year or so.
- [04:07]
A
Well, that's too kind. I love Grizzly Bear, which is what we're ostensibly here to talk about. Maybe a couple other subjects beyond as well. But, you know, as we speak here, early December, you guys just finished up a. You know, what I could tell was a very warmly received run of dates. Not a huge tour, but certainly, you know, getting out there in some of the bigger markets. I caught you at the beautiful Warfield here in San Francisco. I guess just let's start like, how. How did it feel to be back doing this again after what, I think, six, seven years, right?
- [04:45]
B
Yeah, seven. Kind of. More like seven since a full tour. Yeah, it was good. I mean, I. I think it was a little more natural than maybe we even expected in some ways. But, you know, it's been a. Obviously been a long time. I've kept up with those guys well enough, but, you know, it took some doing to get everything working again. And I will say, I mean, for me, I've done some smaller shows and, you know, other. Other smaller gigs, but it's definitely an adjustment being on like a real stage again and kind of being assaulted by the sound and the lights and everything. It was. It took. It took a second to kind of find our footing.
- [05:28]
A
But yeah, it was a hell of a. Hell of a performance. I mean, I wish I would have been able to catch more than just the one, but just like right from the very beginning, I think you opened the date, the San Francisco date with Southern Point. I want to say it was just fucking loud as hell, man. I love that.
- [05:47]
B
I hope, I hope it sounded okay. Yes, our sound guy gets a little excited. I think he likes to push. Likes to push the low end especially very hard. So, yeah, it's kind of funny. It's like these more intricate tunes from the records can turn into these like, completely nuts, like, bombastic live experiences.
- [06:09]
A
But I mean, that's what that's that's the purpose of going to the live show, purpose of playing the live show, you know, And I think that's what to me makes Grizzly Bears music so sort of like, you know, eternal. So great, so. So constantly relevant. You know, you think of a lot of. I think of a lot of the music from, you know, back in. Back in the day, so to speak. And as great as some of it was, you know, might be a little sort of light or ethereal or just not really have much kind of oomph to it. And I think what's great about the Grizzly Bear discography, and certainly you guys really take this to the ultimate extent possible when you play live, is like, it is a rock. It's a rock band. There's no question about that. And I don't think I even realized that at the time. But, you know, returning to the music, however long, you know, 15, 20 years down the line, like, that's absolutely what I am responding to at this point. How'd you guys even kind of get this? What made you and everyone else, Chris, Christopher and Ed kind of decide to decide to start this thing up again?
- [07:22]
B
I mean, we started talking about it about a year and a half ago. There was some nudging from the outside, but I think we had reached a point where, you know, each of us have our own lives and families. And so much is happened in the time since, you know, I mean, going through the pandemic and having young kids and our lives have changed so much. I think we kind of got to a point where it sounded. Just sounded fun again, honestly. And I think, at least for my part, I was. I was excited to re approach the material again with a totally different perspective on, you know, what music meant in our lives and. And what the songs could mean to each of us just because, you know, like, all the pressure's gone, you know, we've basically stopped. So coming back to it, it's just like, well, this is all just for. Just for the joy of playing, which is just a very novel way of coming back to shows. There's no album cycle pressure. There's no expectation of, you know, a record holding up to the last one or, you know, the rest of that. So it was just kind of like, well, why don't we just see each other again and see how that feels and just kind of, yeah, like, just explore the catalog and kind of try to enjoy it a little more. And I think we. I think we were successful in doing at least that.
- [08:43]
A
You know, it's Certainly enjoyable to me. And it seemed like you guys were enjoying yourselves up there on stage. Is that, I guess, like, exploring the catalog, enjoying things a little bit more? Is that something that maybe was harder to do when you were in the thick of it, like, in kind of, you know, in the shit, so to speak?
- [09:02]
B
I mean, sure, as. Especially towards the end, but I mean, yeah, I think when you are.
- [09:09]
C
I.
- [09:10]
B
Don'T know, coming up in the way that we did, and there was a lot of ambition, certainly, and I think we had expectations for ourselves of what we're. Where we were going, where we were headed. Um, and I think, yeah, that created an environment where it could be a little more difficult in the moment. Especially on the shows when, you know you're playing for months on end, it can be difficult to really enjoy what you're doing. You start to kind of disassociate more and more.
- [09:39]
A
And it is a job. It's a job and it's a fucking hard job, as far as I can tell. Just trucking yourself around the world to play these rock shows every night.
- [09:49]
B
It's also great, you know, it's also a. An incredible thing. So in a way, it's a shame to not be able to be as in it. But. Yeah, I think. And that's. I guess that's what I mean. It's like. Because it's been so long and it's sort of understood that, like, you know, our Bandit just. It's basically from another era. Like, we. We represent a different time and we don't have that kind of pressure anymore, given the way things kind of went with us. So it was like, yeah, it was just kind of nice to revisit that stuff. And in a way, I found it really kind of reassuring. Or maybe that's not the right word. I found it. I mean, it was nice to discover how much I still enjoyed performing in that way. Sure. After it being so long and, like, can still do it and still sing in front of people. We can still. We can still really do this. And it felt like there's potential at least to perform and maybe find new music through performing, whether it's the band or anything else. It was just like. It kind of shook off, at least for me, this feeling that, like, life has changed. My life has moved on. Everybody's lives have moved on like that. That chapter is just over. And it was nice to kind of just open it back up again, be like, no, we're still here. We can still do this. So that felt really good.
- [11:10]
A
Awesome. Yeah, that's everything that you could hope for, I think, from something like this. You and Christopher at least have been like. You guys have continued to collaborate kind of together since Grizzly Bear went whatever, on hiatus or on pause or. You know, what was it like? You know, kind of the two of you not having paused, you know, at least your working relationship, but then kind of coming back together with, like, Ed and Chris, for instance.
- [11:38]
B
Yeah, yeah, Chris and I. I mean, he worked on. I did a record on my own and he worked on that quite a bit. And we did a score together, film score, you know, that was over the course of what, five years? But I've been in touch with all of them. We just hadn't seen each other, so it really didn't. It honestly didn't feel that strange to get back together with them. There was certainly some anxiety about, you know, whether we could all handle it. But as soon as we were there, you know, we spent a couple weeks rehearsing in the Deep Valley on a soundstage. And as soon as we got there, it was totally natural. Yeah, I don't know. I guess that's kind of a boring answer. But it was. It was surprisingly easy in a way, which was nice.
- [12:25]
A
You know, that's the best kind of answer to. To receive. Were there any, like, revisiting the material? Did you guys have any? I don't know, because it was a. I wouldn't say, like a super deep cuts thing. It wasn't like you were, like, completely avoiding the hits, but, like, I don't think you played kn.
- [12:42]
B
No, we didn't.
- [12:44]
A
And there were, you know, some deeper cuts, I think, that. That I dug getting to hear live. Were there any surprises or unexpected discoveries coming back to some of this stuff? Certainly, like some of the older. Older stuff.
- [12:59]
B
I don't know, surprises. I mean, it was. It was. Yeah, we were trying to reopen some of the. Yeah. Some of the older material as much as we could. We. There were some pretty extreme time limitations. So I feel like we didn't get as far as we wanted to, honestly. We talked a game about. About doing that, and we sort of didn't quite get there with that project. It's also funny things, like we wanted to switch the setup as much as we could every night. But the fact is there's just certain songs, you know, people want to hear. Sure. And they're, you know, it's like we're not doing a three hour set. So at a certain point it was like, okay, well, it's gonna be. Probably gonna be like these 10 songs, plus, like a little variation.
- [13:36]
A
It was not getting out of there without two weeks, of course.
- [13:39]
B
Yeah. Never knocking. Never gonna. Well, but even beyond that, I mean, there's a bunch. There's a whole list where it's like, well, we got. We have to. We gotta play Ready Able and we gotta play, you know, Sleeping Ute and. Yeah, like, there's just like certain ones. But yeah, it was fun. Like, we definitely exploring, like, the Friend EP material and.
- [13:55]
C
Sure.
- [13:56]
B
Like, that was kind of great to reopen. I mean, we had some idea about also trying to incorporate more acoustic stuff back into the set, which we just couldn't quite get there with that. I wish we could have.
- [14:09]
A
Well, you did a little bit of that at like the very little bit.
- [14:12]
B
It was like one encore. But I was kind of hoping to dig into, like we were talking about trying to do Reprise from Yellow House, which is like, you know, banjo. It would be a little bit challenging for us just because it's. Yeah. Sound wise, that's. That sort of thing is hard to get right. But yeah, there's songs like that and things from Shields, like the B sides from Shields that we were trying to reopen again. And if we do more shows, I'm kind of hoping we can dig more into that because I think it'd be cool to have a little more variation in the set. Like, I do like that it's a rock show and I like that we can just be a rock band live. I think that's important to be able to do that. But sometimes I miss a little more of that material. Now. We've never really done it at all. We kind of always did a rock show and kept the more intricate acoustic stuff was always just the records. Sure.
- [15:01]
A
Yeah. I had my fingers crossed for He Hit Me. I wasn't expecting that one, but that was one of the earliest things, or maybe the first thing that I heard, you know, after Yellow House, which is like, whoa, there's really something going on here.
- [15:17]
B
I kind of wonder how the COVID like that would age at this point. Would that come off the same way now?
- [15:23]
A
I don't know, but it's probably, you know, it might. Might be more better. Some. Some boxes are better left unopened.
- [15:37]
B
I couldn't.
- [16:02]
C
Sam.
- [16:35]
A
I guess, I mean, thinking about some of the records, you know, I don't know exactly what the breakdown was for each set, but certainly, you know, Yellow House Feka Temest and then Shields make up the majority of the material that you guys were playing. What. How do you. How do you feel about those three records, you know, at this point, which do kind of sort of represent the. You know, I think the stuff that most of the mass culture is imprinted on as. This is what Grizzly Bear is about.
- [17:05]
B
Yeah, totally. I mean, I'm still. It's hard to have any thought about it. It's just like, this is my life. But, I mean, you know, especially. I mean, for me, I think Shields and Yellow House are probably the ones that I feel the closest to. I mean, there's also plenty of things on Vac at Timmis that I still still feel that way. I mean, it's funny, like, now it's easier for me to hear. Not necessarily. Maybe you don't want to call them flaws, but we sometimes would just kind of push through whatever we were working on. Or maybe I would do this where it's like, you know, what you want it to sound like. I. I like how this feels. Let's just do it. And then certain things would kind of fall by the wayside. And now we're performing these songs, and I'm like, you really could have written, like. You could have written another verse instead of just saying the same thing twice. Like, there are things like that now where I'm like, I think I would have fixed that. But, you know, these things happened. But I mean, like, Shields in particular, I don't know. I don't know that that's really a favorite of those for many listeners. But to me, that was like. It's a favorite of mine just because it felt like we were pushing out to the edges of what we could do maybe as much as. As any release that we did. And it has some of my favorite songs to play still that are.
- [18:25]
A
Yeah.
- [18:25]
B
Just a little bit more out there, but also feel, at least for us, like a little more cohesive as. So not quite so, like, inscrutable or just pop songs, you know, we're kind of like that. Those. Those were the polls oftentimes in our music.
- [18:42]
A
Sure.
- [18:43]
B
So, yeah, I mean, I. I feel I still am very fond of that one and playing that material. Yeah. And then the last record that we did years later is. I'm not going to call it an afterthought, but it definitely, to me, lacks. Even at the time, it kind of lacked the. I don't know, the soul. Like, it felt like it just felt a little hollow. Even when we were doing it, we kind of. Kind of. I think we kind of knew that it was like, we're trying to keep this thing alive, but maybe. Maybe this One isn't totally working, but there are still songs on that one that I. That I can come back to and enjoy.
- [19:14]
A
Painted Ruins, you're talking about.
- [19:16]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [19:17]
A
I mean, it's funny. It's funny to listen to these records and think about them a little bit more, you know, Shields in particular, because, like, coming back to this stuff, like, I think that's probably the best record. Not that I need to sit here and, like, rank things. I was really floored by it. Kind of returning to it after quite some time of letting it just kind of sit there and sort of ambiently assuming, like, oh, it's vecathemist. Just the same way that the best Animal Collection record is Merryweather. Even though that probably also isn't true either. So coming back to it, like I was saying, it was stunning and I loved how much of that shit you guys played. Sun in youn Eyes. I think maybe you close the main set with that. Amazing. Huge.
- [20:00]
B
That's probably my favorite song to play. We play that every night, man.
- [20:03]
A
Yeah, you guys nailed that one. But so all that being said and all that being the case, at least to me, when it came out in 2012, a couple years after Becca Timmis, it almost feels like that. That's right when the line that the culture had been traveling on, the rock culture, indie culture, whatever, there's a hard left right there. And Shields comes out at the exact sort of wrong moment. And through no fault of your own whatsoever, just kind of overnight, everything that had kind of been building and pushing and that Vecatimis had sort of been caught up in and elevated thanks to that whole kind of wave of energy, just sort of dissipated. I don't know, I just. I feel like that record is destined to be sort of a future sort of undersung discovery. Like a. A real, not deep cut type of thing. Because it is one of your more popular records, but just one that the Heads know is like, this is the one.
- [21:06]
B
Yeah, maybe. Yeah. Were you.
- [21:09]
A
I mean, any of those thoughts or any of those kind of feelings? Were you conscious of any of that at the time or kind of in the space of time between that record and the next one?
- [21:20]
B
I mean, I certainly made. Yeah, I think became very conscious of it in the intervening years. I mean, at the time we were so much in our own world. And it's funny because it's like, yeah, that was a strange record to go through in general because, like, yeah, there was a lot of pressure. We pushed really hard to make it something special. And we were Kind of, you know, it was fractious kind of record to make. I think you can kind of. You can hear that in the record to some degree, but that's fine. That's, like, part of the substance of what it is. It's, like, pushing at all directions. And we got through it and played, like, some of the biggest shows of our career, and everyone was still sort of just like, frustrated on the other side.
- [22:03]
A
It was very strange, everyone in the band.
- [22:06]
B
I mean. Yeah, it was funny. It was like there was. It wasn't like we got through that cycle and everyone was like, great job, everyone. There was just. Yeah, it's like nothing was quite right or good enough or something. And, I mean, it's funny, I did read your. I read your piece after you saw the show.
- [22:27]
A
Oh, thank you.
- [22:29]
B
Because, I mean, I'm good. Because I'm following you now. But it was a good piece and I thought very. I think it was. Well, well said. But there's something you put in there where it was like, you know, somewhere after Shields, we just kind of chilled, I think, whatever term you use, which is kind of true. But it was like. Yeah, I remember after that, I just kind of wanted to walk away for a while. I think I felt like. Yeah, I felt like we had pushed as far as we could, and I tried as hard as I could to, I don't know, make the band feel like, as fully realized or as we could make it. And. Yeah, we just kind of. I think in our own personal world, we were just kind of disillusioned with. With how to work together, frankly, after that.
- [23:16]
A
Sure.
- [23:16]
B
And so I kind of, like. I know I moved out of the city and moved to, like, a place in central New York and kind of got lost there and kind of lost the will to make a lot of music. After that, I kind of just got lost living up there. And it was, you know, amazing. I loved it. It was all sort of like being intoxicated, both on actual alcohol, but also the place itself just kind of having an extended loss period. And by the time we came back around, yeah, like, times had really changed. And I think that cultural shift that you've talked about and I've heard other writers talk about, I mean, that really had thoroughly taken place. I think by the time we'd even started talking about trying to make music together again, it just. Everything was so different. That just, like, what our. What our place in the culture was, I mean, it was obviously so different. It happened relatively quickly, I guess.
- [24:13]
A
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, overnight, frankly. Where I'm just curious and you don't need to be too specific, but where in central New York? The only reason I ask is my wife is from up. She's from like the Vestal Binghamton area.
- [24:28]
B
Okay. That makes me think like Otsego County.
- [24:33]
A
Okay.
- [24:34]
B
Closer to where, like, you know, Ginsburg had his. His. Sure. Not definitely. Like beyond the reach of fancy kind of like city adjacent culture up there.
- [24:47]
A
It's like a little ways out there.
- [24:48]
B
And it's ways out there. It's pretty unchanged, kind of. It's been the sort of. I've had this place for like 15 years and it's pretty much the same.
- [24:56]
A
Were you trying, like, deliberately trying to get out of, you know, the scene as it existed at that point?
- [25:02]
B
Not really. My wife grew up. Someone she went to school with grew up out there and we would visit her up, up there, and I just. We just kind of fell in love with that. That little spot, that part of the world. I mean, you know, New York, New York State just goes on and on and on and on forever. It's big and, you know, every little corner can. Has its own character, I guess. But yeah, that was. That was why we just. We'd been going up there and it was kind of a dream of ours to have. Have somewhere to go. And as soon as I had the means to do it, we just did it and left the city and that was it. Yeah.
- [25:38]
A
That's great.
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B
Would you.
- [25:41]
A
I mean, knowing how things worked out and, you know, you saying when you guys came off like the shield cycle, everyone felt sort of disillusioned and maybe a little bit frustrated with where things were at. And then, you know, obviously kind of scavenged the wind for some period of time before coming back again together, only to find that the ground had sort of shifted beneath your feet. Looking back, like, do you. Would you have tried to do something different or, I don't know, go about it in a different way, knowing kind of what future would hold?
- [26:17]
B
What, you mean that last record or something?
- [26:19]
A
Yeah, just like, you know, you saying that coming off shields, like you kind of lost the will to make music for several years and, you know, sort of walked away. And then it sounded like, you know, painted runes maybe didn't all come together the way that you might have necessarily wanted it to. Like, I don't know, instead of, like, instead of taking some time apart, you know, and resetting things, you know, maybe like continuing to try to forge ahead and kind of bust through whatever barrier.
- [26:47]
B
Might have presented itself that probably would have Been wise. I mean, the thing is, it's not that I stopped making music. It was just like I felt an extreme desire to disengaged from the music world. It was like that. It was like, I just don't. I didn't want to have to try to prove the value of what I made anymore to anybody. And so I kind of kept. Kept making things. But. Yeah, what could we have done? I have no idea. You know, I mean, I think we need. We all needed a little bit of space to just be in our own lives after that point too, because we were pushing pretty hard. I mean, starting in what, 2005.
- [27:27]
A
Sure.
- [27:27]
B
You know, we toured quite a bit and we were working quite steadily between those years. And because of, you know, because we're. We were very much a band. We were not like, you know, us a solo artist that brings his musicians in, makes the records. It was like the relationship was so much more close and kind of dynamic and family like that. I think after, you know, seven years together like that, we. Yeah, we just needed a moment. I. I mean, I don't know. I. I think it's great. I honestly, it's like the fact that we were able to do what we did at all, I think is amazing. And I certainly don't have regrets about it. And. Yeah, I mean, I'm just. I'm glad to be able to look back on it when. And revisit it and play it with them again and still feel good about it, you know, instead of. Yeah, I mean, I think, like, I think it's been pointed out like, yeah, there was certain expectation maybe that. That our band was going to be something that it wasn't or was going to be more than it was.
- [28:34]
A
Expectations from yourselves, from the trajectory.
- [28:37]
B
Well, from outside and from ourselves too. I mean, yeah, we were plenty ambitious when we were young. I mean, I certainly hoped, especially in that area, you know, 2008 through 2012, making so much music all the time.
- [28:52]
A
Sure.
- [28:52]
B
And it was like, I don't know, going reasonably well. Like, I. I certainly thought that I was, you know, like, I'm a lifer. Like I will. I. This is not never going to stop. Like I'm just going to keep going. And then it just stopped and it was kind of shocking for a while.
- [29:12]
C
So.
- [29:12]
B
I don't know, I guess I'm getting off track here, but.
- [29:16]
A
No, this is. There's no, no track to worry about. We're just wandering through the forest here together.
- [29:22]
B
Yeah. But, yeah, no, I, I don't. At this point, I don't have regrets. I think it was a long period of adjustment. Probably like almost like a decade of adjustment after Shields. And then what kind of. What happened on the Painted Ruins? Time and then just the whole world falling apart. Sure. I mean, that was, it was. It was a long period of shock of just kind of like readjusting to what life is now. But that said, I think, you know, I think doing these shows again was a reminder that there's. That anything can still happen. I mean, I, I don't have. I think I have a tendency to get stuck in almost like fatalistic narratives about what, what life can be and what, what my music life can be and what the band could be. And it's. It's kind of nice to just blow that up a little bit. And so, I don't know, at least in the last year or so I've been trying to get myself back in the mind of like, what if I just played any kind of shows? What if I'm just playing in New Mexico? Like, who cares? What if I'm playing like dive bars and cereals or something? There aren't any dive bars in cereals, but it's just donkeys. But yeah, I just, I just, I just want to feel like there's still possibility in the late life of a musician which is relevant to the Jokerman show.
- [30:46]
A
Absolutely. Oh, please. Late life. Have you seen, have you seen how old Bob Dylan is?
- [30:50]
B
Well, that's a, that's a specific case. I mean, he's a. He's a special, special man.
- [30:56]
A
He sure is.
- [31:15]
B
What turns out to be. From the top, children.
- [31:42]
A
Yeah, I mean, I think that, I think, I think that makes perfect sense and I think that that sounds like, you know, the exact right way to be operating at this point. I mentioned, you know, I was texting with one of my friends recently, you know, he. Who's local here in the Bay Area, and he couldn't come to the San Francisco show. He went to the Oakland show the night after and you know, I told him I couldn't catch because I had something else going on that night. But I mentioned, you know, that you and I were hopefully going to speak and he was like, ask him when the next department of Eagles record is coming out. So I think there's a lot of interest and pent up demand. That's a sort of mercenary industry term to be using. But I think a lot of people want to be listening to anything coming from you, no matter what the context, even if it isn't whatever headlining Pitchfork Fest or Something. Not that Pitchfork Fest even exists anymore.
- [32:34]
B
Not here, anyway.
- [32:36]
A
What's it like?
- [32:36]
B
You're.
- [32:37]
C
You're.
- [32:37]
A
You are down in New Mexico for some period of the time now, right?
- [32:41]
B
Yeah. I mean, at this point, most of the time now we. I have a six year old in school, so she's got a life here. And you know, my wife, though she was fond of our. Our rural existence to some degree, it definitely drove her absolutely insane. Much more than me. And she's not wrong, but I know Santa Fe.
- [33:02]
A
Yeah.
- [33:02]
B
She grew up here and I've always loved. Loved this place. So we started spending more time here now that we have a kid. We're here most of the time, but. Yeah, it's a funny little place. It's beautiful. It's hard to make music here other than by yourself, but that's fine. I'm trying to branch out, meet who I can, but. Yeah, no, it's great here.
- [33:28]
A
Yeah. Is there much of a. I mean, I guess it sounds like the answer might be no, but much of a sort of miniature. There are definitely things creative people are, you know, generally in the Santa Fe area.
- [33:40]
B
Totally. Oh, no, absolutely. I mean, in the music world that I, as much as I have found. There's actually like a very robust kind of like drone noise, ambient scene here that's very. It's cool. It's. It's very kind of. Well, I don't want to say charming that sounds. But I mean, there's. There's a. There's a group of people here that put on or I don't think still do it, but they would do like drone nights in their apartment and like, anyone would come by with whatever instrument they have and just drone. Drones, just like a drone community. But no, there's a. There's a world. There's that kind of thing. You know, there's definitely, like. You get some Los Angeles transplants here that come with their. A felt hat and want to do.
- [34:27]
A
The feather in there, kind of like.
- [34:29]
B
Yeah, there's definitely like some rolling thunder.
- [34:32]
A
Exactly. They got the white that goes on.
- [34:34]
B
Yeah. Maybe not quite that far, but certain expectations of this place to be like a sort of romantic, dusty, you know, Western. Western setting. And it's not quite that. I mean, it's beautiful, but there isn't. There isn't much. It's not a lot of younger people here. I mean, like, I. I am very young for this town. That's changing a little bit, but. So. Yeah, no, it's tough. There's no. Like, if I want to find A drummer or something. That's incredibly difficult. Like any, Any musician that is working, that's working in like a studio capacity, like, just can't live here because there's just not any work, you know, there's nothing for them to do. So, you know, it's challenging.
- [35:12]
C
Sure.
- [35:13]
A
Do you. I guess. Does that manifest in the work that you're. Because I assume, you know, it sounds like you are still continuing to write and record yourself. Does that. I don't know. How does that work out in. In the directions you've gone, you know, since.
- [35:29]
B
It's been difficult. Yeah. I mean, the record that I made on my own, I. Yeah, I recorded almost all of it by myself, aside from going to LA when I could to work with Chris, and he played drums on it, which was great. But no, I mean, it's, it's. It's. I mean, it's been cool and that. I've had to learn more about recording. I've had to. I've sort of branched out in instruments that I've been trying to play and I've just been kind of collecting whatever I can in my little crowded studio space of just like got, you know, horns at an upright bass. Seems like all kinds of garbage in there now that I'm trying to work with, which has been great, but I mean, yeah, I'm back now at a place where I just really miss playing with other people. I don't want to. I don't want to work like this anymore. It's. I think it's really tiresome. You have to really have a strong. I don't know. I don't know the. Right, the. The exact kind of person that can keep working alone forever, it seems. It's just beyond me. I can't. I can't generate the enthusiasm just by myself all the time. Yeah, it's just exhausting. So I'm. I'm looking around now. I'm. I'm trying to. I can see. See who I can talk to, you know, talk to some people in Albuquerque, see what I. There's some youngins out there that feel like playing, playing some shows, trying to find them, find those people.
- [36:47]
C
That's great.
- [36:48]
A
Yeah, I know the. I know the feeling of the, you know, kind of just toiling away in complete, you know, obscurity and darkness. I was. Before my semi successful career as a podcaster, I was a failed writer. And so, you know, just the sense of sitting there and just like plugging away at this thing day after day after day, whatever it is, a story or A, you know, a manuscript or whatever, and then just like knowing that or feeling in the pit of your stomach. For me at least. Not that this is the case for you, because you're a very successful musician, but for me, just like, no one's ever gonna read this shit, I started to tear my hair out at a certain point. And so having a community, I'm fortunate enough that community as it exists is mostly online anyways. That definitely helps give you fuel to keep going.
- [37:36]
B
Totally, yeah. No, I Trying to embrace that more. I mean, it is funny, I will say, I guess. I mean, I know, I don't know, technically successful, but I will say, after living in the places I've lived for as long as I have, you really do forget that there's any meaning for what you're doing in the outside world. It's very easy here to just be like, I'm just a guy, I don't know other musicians. Everybody I know does something else. And it is true. It's like, though, I don't want to have my ego stroked or whatever all the time, but I. When you don't have people around to kind of remind you that, like, you know, you do this, like, this is actually your life, like, you should make music. It's easy to just kind of take it. I don't know, you lose perspective and just feels a little bit meaningless. So, yeah, again, another reason it was nice to do these shows again. I was like, oh, look, there's this whole community of people and like, the. The cities where people still live. And, you know, it was a nice reminder of that.
- [38:39]
A
Sure. Is everyone else in LA, Chris, the.
- [38:45]
B
Bassist, you know, corn player, etc. Etc. He lives in Barcelona, actually.
- [38:50]
A
Oh, wow.
- [38:51]
B
Yeah, he's got family there, but, yeah, the other guys are in la and.
- [38:57]
A
It sounded like you guys were rehearsing there.
- [39:01]
B
Yes. I mean, I don't know if you could really quite call that la, but it was.
- [39:04]
A
Hey, Deep Valley. I'm from the Deep Valley, so, I mean, that's Los Angeles to me.
- [39:09]
B
Totally. No, it is, it is. I grew up in la.
- [39:11]
A
Oh. Where in Los Angeles?
- [39:14]
B
We moved around, but I. Westwood for a bit in Culver City and then kind of like near San Pedro.
- [39:20]
A
Oh, down South Bay. All right. Were you like a Minuteman fan or anything?
- [39:26]
B
Definitely not at the time, but I since come to very much appreciate them.
- [39:30]
A
You know, the patron saints of San Pedro.
- [39:35]
B
But, yeah, no, I loved it as a kid. I thought I would go back, but it didn't call to me.
- [39:40]
A
Yeah, I know. The Feeling I was born and, you know, grew up in Orange county, and then we lived in, like, the, you know, Agora Calabasas area. You know, if you're familiar with that out there for. It was my whole adolescence, and then I lived in Toluca Lake for a while, and then I went to. I actually went to ucla, so I'm very familiar with Westwood, you know, Koreatown, downtown. So I've been all over. And I always kind of thought that this. That was where I was meant to be. I ended up doing a couple years in New York, coinciding with the pandemic. Worst possible time to be in New York. But now, you know, have decamped to San Francisco and feel very fond about Northern California. But Los Angeles is, you know, it's. For all its foibles, still holds a warm place in my heart. I don't think I could ever actually live there again, but I do still love it.
- [40:30]
B
Hear that?
- [40:31]
A
What. What did. I mean? Do you have a sense of what sort of the. Because one thing that I know, I feel, you know, just as someone here in Northern California, like, there is a. There's. There's a scene here in the general Bay area, you know, some cool cats that live in. In different parts of California around here. And, like, you know, there's promoters, like folk. Yeah. That kind of bring together a really cool, tight community. But, like, I do get this sense. I do get, like, a little bit of FOMO sometimes, just knowing what's going on down in Los Angeles. Like, my family is still down there, and just, like, the endless, you know, great shows that are always coming through and everyone's recording there and stuff. What sense do you have of any city, really, Los Angeles or New York or anywhere else, as, like, a base for the type of community that you're looking for or that you've talked about, you know, like, people in the world to make music. I feel like that's one of the distinguishing traits of these days, you know, the last five, ten years, certainly since COVID is like, I don't know where anyone goes to make music at this point, I guess, besides just Los Angeles or New York.
- [41:37]
B
Yeah, I don't know either. I mean, there's certainly clearly a very robust, like, scene happening in Chicago right now. I've discovered. I don't know, there's Asheville, clearly. There's a lot going on in that area. I'm not going any of those places. But, no, man, I'm gonna find it here. So I'm gonna. I'm gonna find Some. Some, like, deadbeat kids that want to play rock shows. They're here somewhere. They're maybe living with their parents. Maybe they're older. Maybe they're. They're around.
- [42:12]
A
Sounds like you're looking to put together your version of, like, Bob Dylan and the Plugs. You know, when he went on Lehman to do the punk rock Joker, man, we need Daniel Rossin and the Plugs of Albuquerque or whatever.
- [42:23]
B
Yeah, I think at first that was an idea I had. Last couple years, I was like, they don't nobody. You don't have to have any skill. You just have to have enthusiasm. But even that can be. Yeah, it can be hard to come by here. But no, I have no idea where people go to. They go to Los Angeles. I'm not going to Los Angeles. I don't. I just. It's. It's fine.
- [42:39]
A
Yeah.
- [42:39]
B
If anything, like, I've found, you know, I certainly appreciate it a lot more when I can actually see shows. I mean, whenever I leave Santa Fe, I'm always just, like, looking to see what I can. What I can find anywhere. When we're in New York, upstate New York, I'm like, I'll go down to Kingston and, like, go to Tubbies.
- [42:57]
A
Yeah, hit tubbies. Yeah, exactly.
- [43:00]
B
And that's. It's great. Like, it's. It's great to be able to really enjoy that. Not that I didn't when I lived in New York. I think I just sort of took it for granted. No, I have. Absolutely. Of course I have fomo. You know, I wish I had access to all of that culture all the time. I mean, but there's. There's. Whatever. It's boring. There are trade offs. Yeah.
- [43:21]
A
It's difficult to balance. Absolutely not. Like, I mean, as great as it is to be able to, you know, just, like, wake up in the morning any day of the week and say, like, oh, there's three great shows going on tonight that I could hit anywhere. Like, you also need to put up with the other, whatever, 23 hours of your life beyond just, you know, the one hour that you're doing that thing that you want to do and, like, that and place, you know, from personal experience, for me at least, like, doing that in Los Angeles or New York is, like, exceedingly difficult for me at this point.
- [43:48]
B
Yeah, no, for sure. I mean, I think I just. I should make, you know, work a career or whatever more. It should be more central. I should make it more central in my life. But I have a really hard time not just prioritizing. Like, I Could get up and drive five minutes and then I'm like in the mountains and I can run for an hour in the middle of nowhere. Like, it's amazing. And, you know, for my daughter, it's like, well, we can just walk down the street to her school and it's beautiful and, you know, everything is kind of easy and, And I don't know, it just. It feels like. It just doesn't feel worth it to me to, to, to. To let go of the kind of just not just quality of life, but I don't know that a place like Santa Fe is just a real. It's just a really real place. I don't know what to say. I don't know. That sounds cheesy, but it's like. It just feels like a much more textured, rich kind of life than I would think I could have overall living in LA or something like that now. I think that's probably where I'd be if it wasn't here.
- [44:49]
C
Sure.
- [44:50]
A
No, I totally get that, having been to Santa Fe a couple times. Not for many years at this point, but my grandmother used to love to go to Santa Fe. It's just. Yeah. Real place. I think that's the exact right way to describe it.
- [45:04]
C
It.
- [45:50]
A
Can't help but wonder, you know, as a. As a veteran of the quote unquote, indie rock scene, someone who lived it and saw it all and went through it for better or for worse and. Or for worse, what do you make of what qualifies, what even counts as the indie rock scene of 2025?
- [46:13]
B
I mean, I think there's some great stuff. Like, the last couple years, I think, has been pretty great. I don't know. More so than.
- [46:21]
A
What are we talking here? M.J. linderman, geese.
- [46:24]
B
All the shit. I mean, I haven't. I, I. Yeah, I had an NJ Linderman phase, for sure. I've put those records down. I have not found that I've really wanted to pick them up again. But I did really love those when they came out. Maybe less so. Geese. I loved the Cameron Winter record, as everybody did. I mean, you know, it's inescapable. But great record, do you think? It was pretty phenomenal and amazing record, you know? Yeah, there's. I was saying there's. There's things I've discovered. There's a little scene in Chicago around, like, you know, Lifeguard Horse Girl, Sharp Pins, these, like, kids that are making kind of scrappy, garage, punky indie rock. That's. That's great. Sure. You know. Yeah. The sort of Lenderman adjacent universe. I like some of that stuff. Why am I blanking on names here? What's the name of that band? The Caveman Wakes Up. What's the name of that?
- [47:18]
A
Oh, Friendship.
- [47:18]
B
Friendship. I like. I enjoyed that record.
- [47:21]
A
Yeah.
- [47:22]
B
Even stuff like SG Goodman. I actually really like that record. It's not like stylistically totally my bag, but I sort of enjoy her sort of lyrical ability and Persona. I don't know, it just feels very. It feels like people are playing in bands again, which is nice. Which is sort of nice, you know, like you can see a show that was probably always true, but it. I think it felt like for a while, especially in the mid. Mid aught. Mid, mid teens, early 20s. I don't feel like there was quite as much of that to see, really. Right. But then again, I also. I say that. But that was also a period of my life where I just was completely checked out of new music. So I found. I found myself trying to. To pay more attention the last few years just because, like, even if it's. Even if it's the stuff everybody's hearing, I. I just didn't want to become one of these old guys that just. Just has no idea what's happening in the world. And I just think that's so dreary. I mean, that's the thing. It's like I discovered. I think I kind of discovered Jokerman via following Steven Haydn, because I was. Sometimes I'll check in on his show, his other show, the Indiecast show. I would listen to that sometimes to try to like, just get a sense of. I don't know what they were talking about and. Well, most of the time. Most of the time it was stuff I had no interest in, but it.
- [48:39]
A
Still was like, not a big emo head for all of Ian Cohen's random emo bands.
- [48:44]
B
Definitely not. But. But I still found it useful to just kind of like check in. Yeah.
- [48:50]
A
Keep your finger on the pulse. But anyway, yeah, it's funny you say all that because I was going to mention Steve and I have talked about this, I think on pods before on Neverending Story stuff or just offline also. But the dichotomy between the solo artist and the rock band is a really interesting one. And it definitely feels, I think like the Last couple years, five, 10 years, whatever, have been much more focused on, or at least you've had bigger, more successful names coming out as solo artists as opposed to rock bands. And that's what makes something like Geese or Cameron Winter so interesting, is like he's at that point, you know, where like, he could do one or he could do the other. It might be sort of difficult to like, do both, you know. And I think that the rarity of the great rock band is. I mean, there's a reason it's rare. And you see it with Radiohead right now, you know, like, it's just like. I think it's hard to maintain that working relationship certainly over a long span of time, particularly when people live in different places and have different things going on in their lives, not to mention all the economic pressures. And so it, you know, I think some artists sort of like just kind of pursue the solo act almost by default, you know, like, it's just, it's just easier to do, to kind of fit it into your life. But, you know, that, that also gives the culture this sort of paucity or this lack of rock bands that. I don't know, I feel like I, I at least kind of took for granted, you know, coming up when I was whatever, 15, when I was getting into Grizzly Bear or Dirty Projectors or Deer Hunter. Like, what I wouldn't give for a Deer Hunter record today, man. And I don't know, I mean, as.
- [50:29]
B
I hear tell that that guy's still writing. He's written hundreds of songs.
- [50:34]
A
Bradford. Yeah, I wouldn't, I'm, I don't know what else he would, would do. I just, like, he's a, he's a great music making machine. Just put, just put it out.
- [50:43]
B
Bradford. I won't, I won't speak to that, but. No, I know, I know you're. I mean, yeah. In order for bands to thrive, to have scenes like that, it's got to be cheap, you know, you got to be able to bum around. I mean, that's, that's, that's. That. It was actually kind of what our life was in Brooklyn in the early. I mean, I was sleeping in the van and sleeping on the couches of bandmates for a few years there. I mean, you have to be able to do that and still feel like a human. Enough to get through, I think, to make, to make bands where. I have no idea how anybody does that now. I mean, I can't imagine. Yeah, it's a shame, but that just seems like there's a little more, A little more here and there.
- [51:25]
A
Yeah, you might see. You know, I feel like maybe there's some, some, some promising things, you know, I feel like, you know, like we said Geese, you know, is really exciting. Whether or not it's your type of music. I feel like Wednesday, you know, is another one.
- [51:36]
B
Sure.
- [51:36]
A
You know, so hopefully there's some. Some cool stuff coming down the pike. Do you detect. I wonder, do you detect much Grizzly Bear DNA in any kind of current artists or scenes or anything? Cause you're getting to the point. You've gotten to the point where Grizzly Bear music has been out there for 20 years. That is plenty of time for those records to be metabolized and turned into, you know, not that someone's, like, trying to be the next Grizzly Bear, but, like, you know, for some elements, bits and pieces of what you guys were doing to sort of show up as influences, you know, in next generations.
- [52:19]
B
Yeah, I mean, it's around here and there. I don't know that it's. I don't know that I've heard it in anything very prominent. I mean, I wouldn't say I'm also, like, really listening for that. Sure. You know, there's an artist that I worked with recently named Han Francis, who. Who I came in contact with. I mean, she certainly, like, is in that lineage. She's not super well known. I'm sure. I'm. I'm sure one could find it if. If they looked. I mean, I don't know. I kind of feel like maybe I'm wrong, but I just get the sense that, like, the kind of music that we made largely sort of fallen out of favor aesthetically for a long time. Maybe. Maybe in the last few years a little less so. But I just. I got the sense for a long time that. That our reputation, even as a band was, like, a little bit thin in the long run and just kind of like Brooklyn interesting, kind of like hipster kids. A lot of style, very little substance. And I can even under. You know, I can understand why people would feel that way if they didn't really know the catalog and weren't really following it.
- [53:20]
A
But, yeah, I mean, I feel like that's a fair critique to make of plenty of bands, you know, from the 2006 to 2012 heyday, let's call it. But, like, I mean, anyone making that critique of Grizzly Bear, to me, just, like, completely 100 off, off target, out of the gate.
- [53:39]
B
Yeah, I mean, I. I think there's a. There's, like, what. I think there we had a certain kind of presentation that conflicted, I think, with, like, the overall catalog, which I still still even, like, I did a couple interviews, just a couple around these tours. And, yeah, one of the. One of the interviewers was like, well, what do you think about Grizzly Bear's reputation is just sort of like naive. Naive, millennial. Sort of naive, millennial hipsters. Like, how does that. How does that feel for you?
- [54:10]
A
Is that. Is that. Is that the Grizzly Bear reputation?
- [54:12]
B
Would we. I mean, it might be, I think. Yeah, I guess it kind of is. I mean, and I think it's also. It's part of the thing of having, like, you know, the one song everybody knows, or not everybody. The one song people know if they know. Grizzly Bear, like, really isn't particularly related to most of our catalog. Sure, it's a nice pop song, but, like, stylistically has almost nothing to do with pretty much everything else we did. And I think. Yeah, I think because there was a period where we were, like, slightly fashionable kids, you know, in Brooklyn. You know, Jay Z popped up once in a while or whatever.
- [54:56]
A
Legendary.
- [54:57]
B
You can't escape that forever. That happens and that you're done.
- [54:59]
A
Like, that's.
- [55:00]
B
That's who you are. You're like the hipster kids in Brooklyn with, you know, palling around and you got your one kind of light, naive pop song and, like, that's it. And. But I feel like I found you. I feel like you've talked about this or somebody in your orbit has talked about, like, the difference between acts where, like, the songs people know are actually more representative of their work versus the kind of artists where it's like, yeah, you have the one standout hit that's, like, not really connected to your work.
- [55:28]
A
Sure.
- [55:29]
B
I think that's something that very much happened to Grizzly Bear and certainly can be frustrating for somebody like me because, like, all the work that I focused on on that band was, like, the weirder stuff. It was all the. You know, it was definitely not the singles. It was always the more, like, I don't know, out there, out there material, which, to me was always really important to what the band was, but I don't know how much that translates or sticks for most people anyway. I don't know where I'm getting at with this, but. No, I don't know. I don't know if. If you hear a grizzly bear out there in the world, you know, let me know. I. I don't.
- [56:05]
A
Yeah, drop a line. I feel like. I feel like maybe in the next, like, five years or something, it's gonn to the foreground a little bit more. I kind of get the sense that this, like, you know, just to. Again, go back to the reference that we've mentioned already, like, you know, geese Obviously influenced by the Strokes, Linderman, and a lot of the bands in that, you know, general zending, influenced by, like, Silver Juice, for instance. These bands that, you know, are from, like, 2000ish and, like, you know, so we're about five years, you know, six years down the line. I definitely feel like the whole kind of pie of whatever, not. Not that Grizzly Bear and Animal Collective and Dirty Projectors sounded anything alike in the first place. But in my mind, you three are always gonna be sort of three sides of the triangle of 2009.
- [56:52]
B
The 2009 experience.
- [56:54]
A
What a time to be alive. Yeah, man, I just. That's so funny to hear that. I guess funny is maybe not the right word, but the reputation of naive, you know, hipster kids or whatever could not be further from, you know, what I. How I think of you, not only you guys as, like, a band and as people, but certainly the music. I just. Whatever. That's.
- [57:21]
B
Yeah.
- [57:22]
A
You can't dictate how other people are going to think about things.
- [57:24]
B
You know, I mean, I probably shouldn't repeat these things.
- [57:28]
A
No one listens to this. It's fine.
- [57:30]
B
What are you talking about?
- [57:33]
A
One question that I just, you know, I've always. One of my favorite things from the, you know, back in the day is the Michael McDonald spot. Can you just, like, how did that. Because, like, Michael McDonald today has got, you know, Steely Dan has sort of become, you know, a meme, and they're much more well respected at this point. And, you know, anyone in that General Universe, Michael McDonald, obviously singing backup with Steely Dan and them being connected via the Doobie Brothers and stuff like that, like, that's all critically sort of legitimate and well respected in the culture at large at this point. But back in 2009, man, like, that was not. That was not what people were, like, thinking is cool or culturally relevant or anything. And yet you guys were smart enough to rope him in for just an iconic guest spot on While youe Wait for the Others.
- [58:22]
B
Just.
- [58:22]
A
Can you walk me through how that. That whole thing came together?
- [58:25]
B
Oh, man, I'm glad that you know that one. I'm kind of sad. More people really need. Need to hear that. I was actually going to suggest. I don't know if you. If you're using any music for this show, but I was like, you should use the Michael McDonald version.
- [58:37]
A
That's what we're going out on.
- [58:39]
B
Okay, good. Yeah, I mean, you know, we. We enjoyed, you know, the. The sort of. I mean, I think that Michael McDonald's greatest you know, Doobie Brothers moments and all his work with Steely Dan, like, I have a lot of respect for it, but also it's very easy to. It's. It's very easy to laugh. There's a lot of. There's like joy in that music, of course. And at that time, of course, people there was like the yacht rock series. We saw those things, those videos when we were kids. And so we were familiar with, with the caricature of that music. But he's also just like an undeniable singer. Like, he's fucking amazing, fantastic. And you know, minute by minute, I mean, what a song. What do you want. You want for music? It's great. But I don't recall somebody that was like, somehow Chris Taylor, some friend of a friend of a friend of somebody, like, knew Michael McDonald, just asked him. I mean, he sounds, he seems like he's just like a really. I didn't actually get to meet him, which is sad for me, but just a really wonderful, like, open, easygoing dude. I don't know. Just seems like he has very little ego about him. He's just like, willing to try whatever. And for some reason he was open to singing that song. And. Yeah, no, I mean, like, the first time we heard. We got. We received the isolated vocal from him while we were on the road and we, we decided to listen to it first just. Just by itself.
- [60:09]
A
Just like acapella.
- [60:10]
B
Just acapella on the bus sound system, just like no music. And it was just really one of the most joyful times ever.
- [60:19]
A
Unbelievable.
- [60:19]
B
I mean, you know, and obviously lots of laughter, but like, I think at the time people thought we were, you know, taking a piss. Like we were trying to almost like making fun or something.
- [60:27]
A
Right.
- [60:29]
B
But. And of course it was meant to be fun. I mean, I, I kind of. At the time, like, I just. I really hated the idea of remixes. Well, I don't hate the idea. I just. I think they mostly are bad. Sure. And I was not interested in like, well, you know, the cut copy remix of while you work for the. Or whatever the, like, I just, it didn't sound interesting to me. It was like, what if we just kept the track and someone else sang and I mean, I couldn't wish for anything better than what that is. It's just a joy and a delight.
- [60:58]
A
It's fantastic. It's got, you know, it is funny. It's like unexpected because it is just the same exact instrumental track.
- [61:06]
B
Is the actual. Exactly the same?
- [61:07]
A
Yeah. So like, you know this song and then all of A sudden it's just. It's Michael. It's Michael McDonald singing it. And so there is something just like, like fundamentally funny about that, but at the same time, like, it's fantastic. It's so great.
- [61:21]
B
Yeah. What a. What a time.
- [61:24]
A
What a time indeed. Was. Was it while you wait for the others? Just because that was, what, the second or third single effect? I mean.
- [61:31]
B
Yeah, I mean, that was. It was hardly a single compared to. To two weeks, but it was, it was. Yeah. It was treated as a single.
- [61:40]
A
I've got the seven inches.
- [61:42]
C
Mm.
- [61:42]
B
Well, there you go.
- [61:43]
A
Yeah.
- [61:43]
B
Look at you.
- [61:45]
A
That'll fetch me a pretty penny on discogs one day.
- [61:48]
B
Yeah, There you go.
- [61:52]
A
Cool. Well, I think, you know, I've probably eaten up enough of your afternoon. You got any other statements, thoughts to why speak now, forever hold your peace?
- [62:04]
B
No, I mean, I'm glad we avoided any deep discussion of, like, late career Bob Dylan so I don't have to embarrass myself having the wrong opinion about any of those.
- [62:13]
A
I'm happy to have those conversations with you. You know, I don't wanna. Don't wanna make you feel insecure.
- [62:19]
B
I think you spent enough time talking about Bob Dylan. Of the odds.
- [62:25]
A
That is true.
- [62:25]
B
Yeah.
- [62:25]
A
There's only so many times you can say Mississippi is the best song Bob Dylan ever recorded. I guess I'll like, end with softball over the plate and feel free to dodge it if you want. But just like, what, what, what might we see, you know, not. Not holding you in anything, but what might we see from. From Grizzly Bear in the future at this point?
- [62:49]
B
I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I hope at least more shows where we explore more catalog. I mean, maybe we could get like our own twisted, rough and ratty ways tour where we just go on and on and on and on. Well, I guess, except it wouldn't be one rat record. I don't know. Maybe it's. Maybe that's the Outlaws tour. I don't know. But we, we don't. I don't. I. I don't know. It's hard to restart the kind of, I don't know, creative dialogue with anybody after this much time. Kind of can't just like jump right back in. Sure. Again, unless you're like, so, you know, a solo artist type person that's like, bring the band back together and like, whoa, let's try something. It's this weird. We just don't have that set up. But I remain open. I mean, I would love it if we could do more, at least shows maybe, maybe music. But it would have to feel like it, you know, the spirit was there. Would have to feel, feel right. And you know, I think we've really enjoyed hanging out again and playing music and it's definitely not impossible, but I don't have any great statement on that other than, other than that. Nothing promising beyond that.
- [64:04]
A
I think that's for now. That's perfectly, you know, great place to leave it because I think, you know, if I would have asked you that question, you know, whatever, five years ago, I think if, you know, I don't know, I get the impression that the answer might have been like, there's never going to be any more Grizzly Bear music, no more performances or anything. And now here we are and you know, you guys have just concluded a, you know, fantastic and like I said, I think very well received run of dates, you know, and just I can attest from having been there in the room, like you guys still got it. So, you know, if, if it's there behind the scenes and if you can make that work and you know, kind of figure out a way to, you know, I don't know, resume acting as a rock band with all the added pressures of locations and lives and kids and stuff like that, like it's, you know, it's, it's absolutely still there and still working. So that's, I think, as much as we can ask for at this point.
- [64:56]
B
Thank you, Appreciate that. Cool.
- [64:59]
A
Cool and awesome. We'll leave it there.
- [65:02]
B
Thanks for having me on.
- [65:04]
A
Your face. The sun is in your eyes.
- [65:18]
C
Satan. Right. So long I'm never come back.
- [65:58]
A
Thanks again to Daniel Rawson of Grizzly Bear. Nothing really to plug here. A lot of times these interview episodes are pegged to new records, dropping tours, books, what have you. This was, this was just for the love of the game. So shouts once again to Daniel. Like I mentioned in the interview, we're going out with the one, the only, Mr. Michael McDonald singing one of the great Grizzly Bear songs. While you wait for the others. Wouldn't have it any other way here on Jokerman.
- [66:38]
C
While you wait for the others.
- [66:43]
B
To.
- [66:44]
C
Make it all worthwhile. All you useless pretensions are weighing all my time. You could beg for forgiveness as long as you like. I'll just wait out the evening. You'll only need me try guess you're lonely beat me dry so I'll ask you to make your way. We all fall. While you wait on the answer that I'll pretend to find. Keeping up with the motions.