Jokermen Podcast: In Conversation with Meg Duffy (Hand Habits)

Date: August 27, 2025
Host: Ian (Jokermen)
Guest: Meg Duffy (Hand Habits)
Episode Focus: The making of Hand Habits’ new album Blue Reminder, evolving creative processes, collaboration, community, and the meaning of love songs in complex times.

Episode Overview

Ian sits down for an in-depth conversation with Meg Duffy, acclaimed guitarist and songwriter behind Hand Habits. On the eve of the new album Blue Reminder (freshly written up in the New York Times), they talk about the album’s creation, the evolution of Hand Habits’ sound, collaborating with musical peers (including Perfume Genius and Blake Mills), and striking a balance between joy and vulnerability in songwriting. Meg and Ian also reflect on the challenges of being a working musician in a rapidly changing social, political, and digital landscape.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Life & Landscape in Los Angeles

• Wildfire aftermath & July 4th: Meg, based in Eagle Rock, discusses the ongoing impact of recent Altadena fires on her community and the chaos of LA’s Fourth of July celebrations.
  • “A lot of friends lost all of their houses... When I'm with those friends, it doesn't feel very far away at all.” (Meg, 02:57)
  • Reflections on the environmental cost of fireworks and the rise of drone shows as replacements:
    “It’s like, good for the environment, but they’re also training them to be better war drone pilots.” (Meg, 04:54)
• Community Dynamics: Meg emphasizes the importance of her local music community in LA.

EP vs. Album – The Semantics of Record-making

• Dissects the arbitrary distinction between “EP” and “album” in modern music—both creatively and in terms of digital distribution.
  • “Is this the hill I’m going to die on?... I literally took all the best songs that I could possibly find and got rid of the bad ones and put those on a record.” (Meg, 06:38)
• Industry frustrations:
  • “On Spotify... Don’t they even sort what they consider EPs into a different section of your page?” (Ian, 07:49)
  • “I think it should go away. Especially when streaming gatekeepers are like, ‘We want singles to push.’” (Meg, 08:01)
• Meg’s focus: making the best music, not chasing algorithmic or format labels.

The Making of Blue Reminder

• Intentional Evolution: Meg built Blue Reminder as a “band record” with a bigger, more open sound, shaped by deeper collaboration and a desire for a more communal energy.
  • “I just wanted to make more of a band record and take my time and make something that... I wanted to go a little bit bigger in terms of production.” (Meg, 10:48)
• Collaborative Core: Core musicians are also Perfume Genius collaborators, fostering musical “telepathy.”
  • “We’ve kind of developed this musical language together and there’s a telepathy there… I haven’t had that in a while.” (Meg, 12:43)
• LA Identity: After 11 years in Los Angeles, Meg sees Blue Reminder as her true “LA record”—rooted in a sustaining music community.

Creative Process & Notable Collaborators

• Blake Mills: Renowned guitarist, producer, and friend, who played a key role in connecting Meg to Perfume Genius and collaborated on the track “Bluebird of Happiness.”
  • “He never hesitates to, like, help me figure something out, whether it’s... with some gear stuff... he actually wrote to me and was like, ‘I do have some thoughts’ [on ‘Bluebird of Happiness’]” (Meg, 14:53, 19:02)
  • Detailed story about reimagining “Bluebird of Happiness” after playing live with Blake Mills, adding electric guitars and synth samples for a more rock-and-roll, “robotic” feel.
• Daniel Aged (Inc./Ink): Bassist, previously collaborated on Funhouse—valued for unique instincts and deep musicianship.
  • “His playing is amazing… and he’s such a sweetie too. Crazy, crazy bass player.” (Meg, 24:14)
  • Touches on how learning from others’ musical instincts continues to shape her work.
• Band Dynamics Live vs. Studio: Meg discusses the challenge and excitement of translating studio arrangements to live settings, emphasizing openness and interaction over replication.
  • “Going on tour is becoming less and less about making money... I want to have fun. I don’t want to just recreate the record.” (Meg, 37:50)

Dual Life: Band Leader & Collaborative Side Musician

• Origins: Started as guitarist and sideperson, never set out to be a singer-songwriter; honed versatility in many bands in upstate NY before moving to LA.
  • “The sort of driving force behind all things music in my life has always been guitar and just... playing with other people.” (Meg, 28:14)
• Stepping into Songwriting: Initial hesitation and vulnerability, evolving confidence and self-understanding over each record.

Songwriting, Sincerity, and Love Songs

• On writing love songs: At once self-effacing and deeply genuine, Meg addresses their struggle with vulnerability and cliche.
  • “It’s corny to write love songs... but you know, it takes confidence to write a love song.” (Meg, 40:59)
  • “Being in love is literally an altered state of mind... Like, make you think that bad poetry is good.” (Meg, 41:45)
  • On channeling melancholy even in joy: “Even when I’m writing a love song, it’s filtered through this, like, fear of, like, I don’t want it to go away.” (Meg, 42:34)
• Influence of Community: Songwriting influence comes most strongly from friends and collaborators, particularly within Perfume Genius.
• Balancing Cliche and Sincerity: Explores the power of honest, even cliched phrases when delivered with passion (and invokes both Bob Dylan and songwriting workshops).

Navigating Art & Reality in Difficult Times

• Making “Joyful” Records in Dark Times: The new album’s optimism is contrasted against global and political anxiety, particularly anti-trans sentiment.
  • “A record about, like, a trans person who's experiencing, like, joy and love actually is important for the people who are, like, there's no point.” (Meg, 53:13)
• The Purpose of Art: Expresses a desire for art to offer escape, solidarity, and healing, rather than political instruction.
  • “People go to shows for an escape from, like, the horrors of reality, even if it’s for a half an hour, 45 minutes.” (Meg’s partner, paraphrased, 52:50)
• Reflecting on Political Songwriting: Expresses admiration (and some longing) for the political force of 1960s songwriters, but questions whether the context and audience still exist.
  • “I wish that there were more songwriters that were taking risks politically in their lyrics... But I just don’t have that in me, inherently.” (Meg, 54:11, 56:10)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Who among us is innocent.” (Ian, on setting off fireworks, 04:24)
• “If something’s going to be printed on a 12 inch vinyl... it’s a record, easy as that.” (Meg, 07:26)
• “I’m trying to be everywhere, you know, I feel like one thing for me wouldn’t be enough to carry it all through.” (Meg, 34:46)
• “I think my most radical thing about Hand Habits as a band touring is that in the crowd, it’s like trans, nonbinary people, and guitar dad guys.” (Meg, 58:20)
• “Bridging the dots between, like, baggy, like, you know, hip queers and, like, guys with ponytails who teach at community college.” (Meg, 58:39)
• “Being in love is literally an altered state of mind… make you think that bad poetry is good. And I’ve definitely been there before, massively.” (Meg, 41:44)
• “My records aren’t… I feel like Blue Reminder is the most, like, guitar showcasey and it’s, like, barely that.” (Meg, 33:17)

Important Timestamps

• [02:57] Meg on recent LA wildfires, community loss, and July 4th mayhem.
• [04:54] Discussion on environmental cost of fireworks vs. drone shows.
• [06:38] On the EP vs. album distinction and release strategies.
• [10:36]–[14:30] Shifting Hand Habits’ sound, making a “band record,” collaborating with Perfume Genius musicians.
• [14:53]–[21:10] Working with Blake Mills and reimagining “Bluebird of Happiness.”
• [24:06] Relationship with Daniel Aged and the value of musical credit deep-dives.
• [28:14] The dual path: developing as both a collaborator and frontperson.
• [40:59] Facing vulnerability in love songs and the confidence to write them.
• [46:37] Influences: from Neil Young and Fleetwood Mac to friends and bandmates.
• [51:44] Creating optimism in bleak times and the meaning of joy as resistance.
• [54:11]–[57:56] On the legacy of political songwriting and the shifting role of musicians as social critics.

Tone & Style

The conversation is open, sincere, gently self-deprecating, and full of warmth. Both Ian and Meg blend dry humor and thoughtful candor, with references to the realities of being a musician today, anxieties about the state of the world, and the meaning of making art in the face of it.

Summary Takeaways

• Blue Reminder emerges from deep collaboration, community, and a determination to make a joyful record in dark times.
• Meg Duffy’s journey is shaped by both their role as a sideman and a singer-songwriter, ultimately seeing strength in bridging those worlds.
• Love songs can be both vulnerable and radical, especially for artists from marginalized communities.
• The purpose of art, for Meg, is not just to document hardship but also to offer spaces for joy, love, and escape.

For More:

• Hand Habits’ Blue Reminder is out now (or very soon).
• Follow @jokermenpodcast for more conversations bridging classic and modern music.
• Explore credits! (Preferably on Tidal, says Meg.)

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