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A
Jokerman podcast is brought to you by Distrokid and their new direct to fan tool. Allowing any artist to sell merch. Distrokid Direct allows artists to create a merch store in minutes without any upfront costs or any technical skills or know how they'll take care of all the logistics and the nitty gritty. And as with distribution through Distrokid, they never take a cut of the proceeds. You, the artist, keep 100% of your earnings. Once again, that's Distrokid Direct. Open a store today@distrokid.com direct. Welcome back to Jokerman In Conversation. I'm Ian. We're off to a bang up start here in 2026. Still kind of climbing out of our holiday hiatus, at least in terms of recording. I think we had episodes coming out relatively regularly all throughout Christmas and New Year's season. But we're, we're catching up here on the back end in terms of the production. We'll be back at Brian Wilson and the Beach Boys once again later this week. But before we get there, one more conversation with friend of the pod, fellow online music guy, great Twitter poster, major compact disc evangelist and not to mention fantastic indie rocker Riley Walker, who is not back with a new record yet. He's working on that. You'll hear about that more in a moment. But is embarking on a tour up and down the west coast of these United States this week with Papa M, Dave Paho's band. Riley's a great musician. Even better hang. We just roped him in here on the POD to talk about all the faves. Bob, xtc, Van Cameron, winter Geese, you know, typical Jokerman shit. Some posi vibes to kick off a year that is in desperate need of some. Here's Rylan. Riley Walker. Welcome to Jokerman.
- [02:43]
B
Happy to be here.
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A
Happy to have. This is our first time we've even recorded during 2026. First time I think since Zoran Mamdani has established his new Woke caliphate there in New York City. How's it going back there?
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B
The fake of the buildings just crumbling. Everything's in chaos. I have new pronouns now. Everything is just absolutely, you know, it's. The whole world changed.
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A
Woke is back maybe.
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B
Yeah. Woke is back. I don't know. The. Everything seems to be fine.
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A
I don't know.
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B
Chopped cheese, whatever.
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A
You know that's right. Yeah. Aki style.
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C
Sure, sure. Yeah.
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A
Yeah. Well you're. We wanted to. I mean been longtime admirers from afar online and I know I chatted with you a little Bit last. Last summer, I think, to talk about cast, but here we are getting to talk about you or, you know, you and. And things that you're interested in. At least you're going on tour with Dave Paho in. In a week or something, right?
- [03:44]
B
Yeah, doing a tour with David Paho up the. A few shows in California. It'd be great, tight.
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A
What's. What, you know, what's. What do you got planned?
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B
I have a bunch of new. I haven't toured in a long time in America, but I have a bunch of new music I'm playing. I'm trying to make some money so I can finance a record.
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A
That's a good thing to do.
- [04:06]
B
Yeah. Thanks. I haven't put out a record in, like, five years of, like, songs. I put out some, like, weirdo kind of instrumental music stuff, but I haven't put out songs with, like, singing on them in quite a few years. So I've. I got a bunch of new songs that I'm really excited about. So I'll be playing all that stuff, and I think it's in a wonderful new direction. And I think David Paho is fantastic. He's a good friend. I think it's a good double bill. We're playing San Diego, Los Angeles, San Francisco, and the capital of the golden state, Sacramento, where all the big decisions are made.
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C
That's right, yes. Very important place.
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A
Presumably Mr. Newsome himself will be in the crowd that night.
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B
He's on the guest list plus one.
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A
Just. Just plus one. You could. You couldn't. You couldn't slip him plus two?
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B
Yeah, No, I can't do it, Sorry.
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A
Yeah. Well, that sounds tight. Are you. Are you rolling, like, solo on these shows? Are you, like, playing, like. What's it gonna sound like?
- [05:10]
B
Yeah, I'm rolling solo. I use. I have, like, a bunch of new sort of sounds with my guitar. I. I do. I'm a laptop guy now. I said that like. Like, I'm a Costco guy. Of course I use a laptop. No, but, like, I got a. My friend Ben taught me how to do all the Euro dork stuff on my laptop. Like the finesse sort of blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, when you plug your guitar into the laptop and make blip blips. I use this software called Pull, which is an extension of Max, which is just. In layman's terms, it's just makes your guitar go bleep, bleep, bloop, bloop when you plug it into the laptop. And it makes a bunch of cool sort of out sounds. But you. Do you know that David Sylvian record Blemish at all? Have you. Are you David Sylvian fans?
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A
I don't think so. Evan. You know it?
- [06:08]
C
I'm not that familiar, no.
- [06:11]
B
Well, David Sylvian is great. You guys would probably be David Silly Advance. He was sort of Sophista pop band from the 80s Japan he was the lead singer of. But his solo career from the 80s and 90s and up until the present day is, is really fascinating. Just a fantastic voice. I think you could sort of, you could sort of lump them into that category of like Scott Walker or something like that if to sort of simplify things.
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A
I like his look. He's got sort of like, you know, like androgynous new wave, like David Bowie crossed with Flock of Seagulls type of thing. At least back in like the mid-80s.
- [06:48]
B
It looks like Handsome Devil. Well, yeah, he has a really sort of fearless exploratory vision of music. But anyways, he has a record from about 20 years ago called Blemish that I'm a really big fan of that. I think I've been aping a lot of sounds from that, you know, Finess, that guitar player soundscape. Well, Finess plays guitar on it and I think I've been listening to that a lot lately. So it's like Finesse's guitar, whatever and David Sylvan like singing over. And Derek Bailey, the you know, renowned free jazz, free improv guitar player also plays on that record. So I don't know. I, I think I'm taking a lot of, I have a lot of new ideas. I think if I had to write like a new folky finger picking record or whatever, I'd. I jump out of a building. I just, I'm not there. I'm not there anymore. Yeah, I still love that music and stuff but I, I just spiritually it's, I, I can't do it. I'm it. I, I'd be a spiritually inept person if I had to do that again. You know, I'm just not there anymore, so.
- [07:54]
C
Well, that's kind of the theme of our podcast a lot of the times is that's, that's like the reason that a lot of people end up doing what ends up being maybe different from what the fans expect is because if they didn't do something different, they would have to jump out the window.
- [08:09]
B
Yeah, exactly. You could say I'm in my 80s divorce era right now.
- [08:15]
A
Yeah, I was going to say like you're. It sounds like sort of Empire Burlesque, maybe. Knocked Out Loaded era, if we're going to put it in Bob terms for you.
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B
Yeah, exactly. Knocked Out Loaded is really good.
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C
Down in the groove down in the groove.
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A
Underrated record. Pretty good record.
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C
I don't know about you guys. I've been having moments with it lately where I've just. I mean if that's like a shock on the Jokerman podcast to mention that. But I like it. I'm liking it.
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A
It's good music.
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B
Have you guys ever talked about the Woodstock 94 set?
- [08:47]
A
Oh yeah, we talked about that with Ezra Koenig.
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C
Ezra Koenig, Yeah, we had a lengthy discussion about. Well, that, that whole year. I mean we feel very close to the 94 era with win Watson and the. And opening many, many shows with Joker. Man, it's like our bread and butter.
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A
Well, and that's the era. I know you're like. I wouldn't necessarily call you a Wook Riley, but I know you're dialed into that culture that's like the wookiest that Bob ever really got.
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B
94, it's his best guitar playing I've like ever seen. Like 94 is like some of his best guitar playing. He is like a fan. He is just actually laying into the fucking guitar.
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C
He's fantastic on it as Bob. Bob as a guitar player I think gets a lot of. I don't know that he has. He's much better than his maybe non existent reputation. I mean he's better. He's great in ways that maybe someone like you can more readily notice than like, you know, it takes a kind of a head, an aesthete of the. The form to. To maybe like get what he's doing.
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B
I mean he's just laying in really hard and I don't think it takes somebody like me to notice that. I mean he's like, he's. He's laying into the guitar in a way that he never has in any other era. And especially on the Woodstock 94 set. And that that band is all like Sunset. I mean with the exception of Tony on bass. I mean that band is all like Sunset Strip. Like fried LA musicians. Yeah, that drummer Winston Watson or whatever. I was like really fascinated by him. There's a couple interviews out there. Like the guy looks like he should be in Soundgarden or something.
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C
He basically was like he. What? We talked to him. We had an interview with them. We did. Yeah. He said almost exactly that. He was like, I wanted to be in, you know, Soundgarden or so it could have been Literally that. But yeah, his story is amazing. That he was just sort of straight up plucked out just because Bob was like, this guy's got some. He's got something. He has juice.
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B
Yeah, he's absolutely. Yeah, I. I love his drumming too. You know, he's playing on like Knock on Heaven's Door, but he has like a Pearl Jam swing to it, which, like, should technically is an evil combination, but somehow.
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A
Well, I know you're a big time out of mind's head, right?
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B
Yeah, that's the one that is kind of. Yeah, I'm closest to that one at this point in my life.
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A
I mean, that's a pretty good one. Was that the one that you just, like, kind of listened to? Evan and I talk about this all the time. Like the first Bob Dylan record you listened to that. Like, it's kind of contemporary with you growing up. Like, it's the. The. The one that comes out when you have decided you're into Bob Dylan. Was that. Was that it for you or did you go backwards towards that?
- [11:39]
B
No, I mean, the one I got into at first was like, classic Bob Dylan. I mean, my parents weren't into Bob Dylan or anything. My parents were into like, other kind of like more hard, classic rock, like AC DC or Led Zeppelin. Sure. I. I didn't grow up with Bob Dylan at all. I got into Bob Dylan, like, eighth or ninth grade. Probably.
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A
It's about the right time.
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B
Yeah. Maybe around the time the Scorsese documentary came out. So, like, kind of that era of Bob Dylan, like, Bring It All Back Home was the one that I liked, you know?
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A
Sure.
- [12:20]
B
Young rebel poet, Bob Dylan stuff. So Bring It All Back Home. I had no idea existed. I was. It's like I was way too young. I'm 36, so I was like, way too young when it came out. Like. No, it existed. So I guess late high school maybe I started to go back or like, get into the deeper cuts, I guess. And I. I really, really loved it. And I think once I moved to Chicago when I was like, 18, 19, 20, I remember, like, really loving it and listening to it, like, in my apartment that I had in Pilsen in Chicago a lot and just. Yeah, that record's like, really huge for me. And Love and Theft too. There you go. Yeah, I'm. I'm a big Love and Theft fan too. And I remember, like, the first time I remember it being like, part of a club or something or feeling like. I don't want to say, like, Holier than Thou or Gatekeepy or or whatever, but being like, oh, I'm in the Love and Theft club is like this guy. This guy Nick actually, who runs. Who runs this record store, Deep Thoughts in Jamaica Plains, Boston, before even ran it, maybe. I remember him. And that was like the first person I met who was my age. He's like 11, theft and time out of mind, you know, Those are like my favorite. But I'm like, oh, my gosh, there's like a cult out there for this, you know? So. Yeah, I love those records.
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A
Sounds like a type of guy, Nick.
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B
Yeah. Yeah.
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C
I know that you are an XTC fan, which I'm wondering when. When did that. I feel like it's quite a lonely part of my life. Like, I don't meet. It's rare that I meet anyone who's like, even close to my age who like, knows Ball when it.
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A
Yeah, I don't really know the first thing about ecstasy, but.
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C
Yeah. When did that come up for you and how.
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B
That's my favorite. That's like my favorite rock. I mean, it's like straight up like xtc, Pink Floyd, Zeppelin, like, that's my favorite rock band. I got into XTC from the record store guy in my hometown, Rockford, Illinois. Really lucky. And I think it was because I. Yeah, like, I had like a recommendation from him and he gave me a CD copy of Drums and Wires because I. I like Talking Heads a lot in high school. And I think he thought, you know, based on that that I would like, you know, their sort of UK counterpart, I think to a lot of people is xcc.
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C
Yeah, that record is under. I think that. I mean, that was probably the first one I was introduced to just via my dad's CDs. And then, like, it took a while until I finally just like finished listening to, like, listen to the whole thing all the way through and got to the last track. And that last track, Complicated Game, is like, to this day, I think, like, people don't know that they had that, that they did that. It's. It's crazy.
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B
Yeah, XTC became my like, favorite favorite rock band throughout teenage years. I think English Settlement is. Isn't always will be my favorite. Just the production on that record is really huge. And Ian, I. I would. I would highly recommend you get into XCC via English Settlement, that record.
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A
Settlement. Okay. 82, it looks like.
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B
Yeah, English Settlement. A lot of people would say skylarking, that's like sort of their big popular record. Todd Rundgren produced that record. Oh, I didn't realize that Rungrid produced it. I have a love hate relationship. I think some of the songs are their best, but the production like kind of bothers me. The band itself hates that record Skylarking.
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A
Sure.
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B
People love it. Like it's, you know, it has a lot of critical acclaim. That's kind of their big crossover record in America. They're. They're a cult band in America at best. In the UK they're big stars. You know, they were on like Top of the Pops and Old Gray Whistle Test and all that. They're. They're a band that was like really pop. They stopped touring around Skylarking or they stopped touring around English Settlement. They went nuts and then they became a studio band. And just like the Beatles when they became a studio band, like their stuff got exponentially just better. The early stuff is like really just kind of like run of the mill, post punky, sort of mod inspired, whatever, blah, blah, blah. English Settlement. Andy is one of the best songwriters of all time. Dave on guitar, there's like seriously, his 12 string guitar playing. There's like, you know Roger McEwan from the Birds and him, to me he's one of the most underrated. I mean the word underrated just comes up way too much these days. It's just makes me sick almost. But he's one of the most underrated electric guitar players of all time. He never gets mentioned in anything. This 12 string guitar playing on English Summit in particular is great. And they're one of. They're one of the great. You guys are like fascinated by late era careers. They're one of the great late era bands to me.
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C
Huh?
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B
Yeah. And they're, they're great. They get into like Sophista Pop stuff. And I know Sophista pop is becoming like sort of. It's sort of coming into fashion within contemporary music and contemporary listening and fans and stuff with being. I think bands like Prefab Sprout are sort of coming into fashion in Blue Nile and things like that. But XCC sort of sort of. I don't think they've gotten their Flowers records like Oranges and flowers in 92. Oranges or oranges and Lemons?
- [18:30]
C
Yeah, that one's. It's so good.
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B
I love Oranges and Lemons. Oranges and lemons in 92 is like wonderful sophistic pop. And here's my sort of contrarian dark horse take their last record, Apple Venus Volume 1. It's great is my favorite. Like one like my has like many of my favorite ECC mums. Apple Fiend is volume one. It broke up the band, like, there's interviews with, like. We just, like, lost our. We couldn't take any more of each other in the studio. Apple Venus Volume 1 is such a highlight of their career.
- [19:18]
C
I've tried to show this record to people and failed. Like, I tried to show I was messing with Josh Tillman and sent him Easter Theater, and I don't think he got it. I don't think he. It's. Maybe he did. I don't know. It's that. It's kind of like. It feels like he's just on the keys, like on the MIDI keyboard. Kind of like, well, fuck you guys. I'm going home and doing this on my own.
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A
I didn't even know there was an XDC album coming out in 1999. This is.
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C
Yeah, these two are very. I mean, is that what happened? It was like, very much he. It feels like it's just Andy almost like. But maybe that's not the case.
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B
No, it's the whole band. But I think you might be right. I think it was like everybody kind of booked their own studio time and did it separately from one another. I don't think they were much in the studio collaborating with one another at that point.
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A
White album type shit.
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B
Yeah. I think that's what kind of broke the band apart. And I think they also don't like the final result. I think the final result is incredible. I have a bootleg shirt of this record. I wear it all the time. It gets recognized. Never. I mean, I. When I. I've gone to England a couple times wearing it, there'll be like an old guy in a ponytail, like, oh, my God. Apple Phoenix Volume. You know, I. I love Apple Phoenix, Volume one. It's like. It's up there with English settlement for me. I think it's an absolute and not to. And they also have Dukes of Stratosphere, which is their side project, which is just an homage to beatles Ripoff bands. 25 o' clock is a pretty incredible tune. Yeah.
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C
13Th floor, elevators adjacent. Sort of like they're. There's psychedelic thing that they do.
- [21:10]
B
Yeah, it's just like their mercy beat. Psychedelic. Sort of Beatles ripoff band homage. Yeah. I'm fascinated by xcc. That's, like, totally my favorite rock band. There's something to say about every record for them.
- [21:26]
C
Do you feel like that's on your mind when you're writing songs? When you're writing records?
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B
No, not really. Not in some way. I think, like, I'm an Anglophile and I take that into my music. But, like, with different bands. Not with xtc. I think they're, they have like a sort of energy and a sort of lineage of that I'm not interested in taking, you know, I kind of take from other sort of paths, I guess.
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C
You're a Fall guy as well. You're a Fall fan.
- [22:04]
B
Yeah, I'm, I'm a big fan of the Fall, definitely.
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C
I've just. Yeah, I mean I remember just seeing on the Internet on the. Formerly on Twitter posting like a fat stack of false CDs. And that's. Yeah, not again. I'm just bringing this up because it's so rare that I actually encounter anyone who's like got the, these two things. The two, the two towers of XTC CDs and fall CDs. Do you have a favorite? I mean, kind of a trick question, but do you. A favorite Fall record? What, what got you into them?
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B
I guess when I was younger, reading UK magazines like Enemy, they would like you read interviews with the bands and I guess, you know, a band like Block Party or something or blah blah blah would always mention the Fall as an influence. Back then, you know, 20, 22 years ago, all those like hyped UK bands would bring up the Fall or Gang of Four as like an influence. So that's, that's honestly how I found out about them. But then once I moved to Chicago, I had a bunch of friends, especially my friend Alejandro, who is super into the Fall. And he, he was like the most massive Fall fan. He played them constantly. So I guess that made me into a bigger Fall fan, I think. Ben, Sinister, Grotesque are probably, you know, and like the later stuff. Really? Fall lp? Yeah, I love the Fall. I like all Manchester music. I think Manchester's super damaged. I think they're all cross eyed and drunk and make super up music. Sam.
- [24:31]
A
Oh, I mean you were talking about CDs a moment ago, having the stack of XTC CDs and stack of false CDs. I know you're, you're a bit of a compact disc evangelist. Riley. You know, I think CDs are kind of like they're in now or they're more in than they have been in the past. But for the longest time, obviously it was like, you know, vinyl and then it was like kind of cassettes, you know, at least for some period of time. You know, indie Axe would do like a 40, like a series of 40 cassettes of their new album. And it would sound like. But they would sell them for 12 bucks and people would buy them. Was, do you have Just what's the deal with CDs?
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B
Well, I'm of the age where CD.
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A
I remember peak CD, you know, late 90s, early two. Like, pre Napster, like, right around Napster coming up.
- [25:16]
B
Yeah, so my first format when I was a young, young boy was CDs. So when I first got into music, when I was, you know, 10 years old, I was buying CDs, and I've just never stopped since then. I, you know, I do have a lot of LPs, but CDs, by the time I was 18 or whatever, when they totally died, people were just dumping them. Yeah, yeah. And I remember Reckless Records in Chicago. This is peak CD dump in, like, 2007. And, like, records were, like, coming back in a way. Like, where they were at, like Urban Outfitters and, like, you could get, like, a best coast lp.
- [26:04]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [26:05]
B
Urban Outfitters.
- [26:06]
A
That's when I got into Wreck. I bought, like, Straw. I bought, like, Strawberry Jam on vinyl at the Urban Outfitters in, like, Hollywood. And I felt like the coolest person in town.
- [26:15]
B
That is cool. I'm glad. Strawberry Jim's a fantastic. That is very cool.
- [26:21]
C
I thought you were gonna say cd, Ian. I've never even thought about listening to that on cd.
- [26:25]
A
Somehow Strawberry Jam.
- [26:27]
C
Yeah, she seems wrong. That's a very much, like, downloaded album for me, but go on, please.
- [26:34]
B
But I remember going to Reckless Records and, like, every CD was like a dollar back then. You know, I only had a few bucks at a time to spend on music back then. And I. I still wanted to collect music.
- [26:50]
C
Then.
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B
I just never stopped buying CDs. I. I love the format. They're small, you can move around really quick. They sound fine to me.
- [27:00]
A
They're better than vinyl records in virtually every regard. They're smaller, they're cheaper, they sound better, they last longer, they're easier to play.
- [27:08]
B
Yeah, I mean, all respect to vinyl, you know, everybody's on the same team or whatever, but I think. I think vinyl people kind of, you know, they could be kind of jerks sometimes about, like, sound formats where it's like. It's certainly like, we're all on the same team, pal, you know? You know, we're all fighting the good fight, just trying to get some good tunes into our homes, you know, I. I just never stopped collecting CDs. And to me, they were always just affordable and fun and cool, you know? And I just remember thinking it was great going to a record store with a 20 bill and being able to walk out with, like, I don't know, the discography of Built to Spill or whatever.
- [27:57]
A
Sure.
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B
Like, I love being able to do that still in the year of our Lord 2000, 23 or 24, 25 or whatever, you know, I still love being able to do that. That's like, fun to me to go to a record store with 20, 25, 30 bucks and be able to get the discography of whatever band. That wasn't the case starting in about 2008, 9, 10. For LPS. And I love LPS, you know, I have tons of them. I don't really buy many anymore. It's rare. I probably buy like 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 LPS a year at this point. Yeah. And that's usually. Honestly, like a Bob Dylan LP or like a bootleg that I'll find on ebay or something. Or like a boot. Like a really. A bootleg of like something like a. Like a concert bootleg of a band I like, like Zeppelin or something.
- [28:49]
C
Sure.
- [28:50]
B
So it's really rare.
- [28:51]
C
Was listening to music like in. In the car part, like a big thing for you? Or is that part of the CD allure? Or, like, were you. Because that's. I mean, that's the One thing that CDs also have on. On the LP is that aspect.
- [29:08]
A
You can put it in the car.
- [29:10]
C
You sure can.
- [29:11]
B
I love cd. Yeah. Well, I live in New York, so I don't drive anymore. But I loved CDs and cars. I like. It was so romantic for me. And I can tell you, like, the two. I used to deliver pizzas in my hometown. The two CDs I was listening to were teenage fan club Bandwagon.
- [29:29]
A
Great.
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B
So perfect, right? And you'll notice by the Trail of Dead Worlds Apart, which is like a really divisive record, which is like their biggest piece of. Or their masterpiece.
- [29:45]
A
Man, I love. I love a young Riley Walker driving around, slinging pizzas with. With bandwagon ass blasting out of, like, the.
- [29:53]
C
What? What?
- [29:53]
A
You have like a. Like a, you know, like a 95.
- [29:56]
B
Honda Accord with the, like, muffler rusting off the body of the car. And I was drunk the whole time.
- [30:04]
A
That's the Midwest for you. Yeah, I love that.
- [30:08]
C
Yeah.
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B
The owner would just give me Peronis. Yeah. But, Yeah, I mean, CDs were great and, you know, like, you throw your CDs on the floor of the car back then, obviously. But I don't know, just the whole moving and handling them CDs is still wonderful to me. I like the way they feel in my hands. I like being able to transport them around. They Sound great. I'm looking at Mysterio right now. I got a stack of CDs on top of them, and I just like that they're accessible to people. You know, I. I do notice that, like, kind of younger kids are getting into CDs and it's cool, you know, they can bring a 20 bill to a record store and get four or five CDs. That's typically not the case for LPs right now.
- [30:54]
A
Oh, certainly not. No. Going record shopping is like a nightmare unless you go to, like, you know, the right, right place. And even then, like, they're gonna have a decent selection, but everything's gonna be crazy expensive.
- [31:07]
C
It's like going to erewhon. Like, I'm going for one thing and then I come out with like $75 and it's, you know, 12 things.
- [31:13]
A
Right.
- [31:14]
B
I mean, Fleetwood Mac rumors is 35.
- [31:17]
A
It's insane. It's insane. I've got. I've got a copy of Asia that I got at Amoeba Hollywood probably like 15 years ago or something. 499 used. Sounds great. In perfect condition. Five bucks for Asia. If, if you find a copy of Asia in Amoeba today, a used copy, you're going to be. You're going to be spending 35, 40 bucks easy. It's insane what they've done to the vinyl market.
- [31:37]
B
Yeah. And that's. I think that's why C's are coming back. I did see like a. It was a big win in my heart. There was like an article or discogs released kind of releasing some figures. You know, like CD sales were up 8% or whatever, which is like such a strong number, to be honest, because, like, God, for, you know, 25 years, CD sales have just declined and been in the. And it's. They've just been used as coasters essentially for the last 25 years. But I think used CDs are so great. You can get essentially whatever you want for four to six dollars at this point.
- [32:12]
A
Well, you do this all the time, Evan, where you're like going in and buying just every Van Morrison CD that exists in the bins.
- [32:19]
C
That's one of the only completionist things. Another very lonely part of my. But yeah, this. The late period van stuff. Like, you can go to sing.
- [32:28]
B
No. Plan B.
- [32:29]
A
It's great.
- [32:30]
B
It's good.
- [32:32]
A
We're talking to. We're talking to a head here.
- [32:34]
C
Yeah. I just went into Amoeba and it was just like, you know, under the bit, like the actual bins, like one in Hollywood or. Yeah, the new. Yeah, the one in Hollywood. That's like the. You know, since they moved away from their original home.
- [32:47]
A
The one that's in like, the new build apartment building across the street from the Funko Pop Store.
- [32:52]
C
Well, it's like by the Pantages, but if you want to put it that way, it's. But yeah, I've just like, kind of looked under, like, in the dark, like, cobwebby zone, like, beneath the proper stacks, there was just like a mound of. Just almost in chronological order, just like these van CDs for like 2 bucks and ended up just kind of leaving with. It's gotten to the point where I actually have like, multiple copies of certain ones. Like, I pick it up wherever I see it and give it to friends as a gift. Like, I keep finding back on top from, like, 1999. And I. I buy that for a dollar and I give it to friends just as like a. A party favor.
- [33:35]
B
Have you ever had Dan Behar on this podcast?
- [33:38]
A
We have. Yeah.
- [33:38]
B
We.
- [33:39]
A
We talked to Dan last year when the new record came out.
- [33:42]
B
Oh, yeah. He's like a big Late Van fan.
- [33:45]
A
Damn.
- [33:46]
C
We didn't even get into it.
- [33:47]
A
We didn't even get into it. We talked Late Bob with Dan, but we didn't talk Late Van. I guess we got Late Van.
- [33:51]
B
He's like a psycho on him. Yeah, Like a psycho, man.
- [33:55]
C
Now things are lining up. Things are starting to make sense because, like, it. I love. I love Destroyer. I love everything he does.
- [34:01]
A
And Behar is the only person he pro. I'm sure he wasn't actually there, but if he had been in the audience at the Bob show that night when Bob busted out going down to Bangor, Behar would have been the one person who knew what the song was.
- [34:14]
C
He also probably would have noticed that. That. What was it? Was it. Which song did Bob do That was actually. I Forgot that Love Existed by Van Morrison. Yeah, it was Poetic Champions composed.
- [34:25]
A
It was the Watchtower.
- [34:26]
C
Yeah. He turned Watchtower into like, a very pretty.
- [34:32]
A
That's a great. That's a great band jam.
- [34:34]
C
Yeah. That is the pro, like, man, that. I'm glad we're talking about this. This is important stuff.
- [34:41]
A
We've got. We've got our outline started for the next time we get Behar on the show.
- [34:45]
B
Guru no Method, no Teacher is probably my favorite. Late Van. Late Ish Van. I love that record.
- [34:50]
C
It's classic. That's Steve Haydn's favorite as well, I think.
- [34:54]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [34:55]
C
It's such a great blend of the Spiritual aspect of van and also just him being a bitch who's complaining about being famous. And he does it in the same breath. He's just talking about in the Mystic Garden. Then in like, copycats are ripping me off. It's the best.
- [35:15]
B
Yeah. And I think where. When I was on tour with Dan Behar, we like, kind of went in hard on Born to Sing, no Plan B. He like.
- [35:21]
C
We both, like, love that record.
- [35:23]
A
Horn to sing, no plan B. Oh, my God.
- [35:25]
C
Going down to Monte Carlo.
- [35:27]
B
The album art is hilarious. He's just, like, holding a mic and like, his. He just looks like. I don't know, he just looks like total.
- [35:33]
C
That's. What. What year is that? 20.
- [35:36]
A
2012. Looks like it look.
- [35:38]
C
But the COVID looks like it could have come out anytime in the last, like, 30 years.
- [35:42]
A
God, this is so good.
- [35:44]
B
Yeah.
- [35:47]
C
There'S actually.
- [35:48]
B
There's some good moments on it.
- [35:49]
C
Going down to Monte Carlo, Pagan Heart.
- [35:52]
A
End of the Rainbow. These are just preposterous song titles. Mystic of the East.
- [35:59]
C
Yep.
- [36:02]
B
He said song titles that, like, in the last five years, like, why are you on. Why are you on Facebook?
- [36:06]
A
Oh, of course. That's on Latest record project, Volume One. That's a late era class. That's a late, late era, like, legitified classic.
- [36:13]
B
That's an all right jam.
- [36:14]
A
Psychoanalyst Ball, man. That's. That's All Time Band song.
- [36:18]
C
That particular record is. It's kind of like a totem of our whole project here. Like, latest record project. Have you heard my latest record project? It's like, really? He's just saying the quiet part loud. He's like, this is. This is not something you're used to. But I'm doing it in the present.
- [36:38]
A
Something I can relate to in the present. Exactly. Does he have a new record coming? Didn't he just announce, like, another new record coming out that's got some, like, AI cover art where he's like a cartoon devil or something?
- [36:50]
C
I don't think it's a cartoon devil, but yes, you're right. It's.
- [36:54]
B
I don't know who's fucking, like, buying his new in?
- [36:57]
C
I guess us.
- [36:59]
A
Steven Haydn is. He bought a copy of the last van record on cd, he ordered it online, and it showed up to his house. Remembering now, that's the market for the Van Morrison compact disc.
- [37:12]
C
His new album coming out this year is called Somebody Tried to Sell Me a Bridge.
- [37:19]
B
Okay. Yeah. I don't know. What do they do? They fucking sell it at the gift shop in the Belfast airport and, like, some Blacked out, drunk person. Like maybe drops £25 on it. I don't know.
- [37:33]
A
No, he is.
- [37:34]
B
He.
- [37:34]
A
He isn't the devil. But it's. If you look at the COVID the. It's a. It's like a overhead isometric shot of a guy in a suit. And then there's a shadow.
- [37:42]
C
Shadow has the devil's tail.
- [37:44]
A
And he's got the devil's tail. I knew. I knew the devil was involved somehow.
- [37:49]
B
My friend worked production at a festival in Ireland. Like working like side stage, doing production monitors, you know, doing sound on the monitors. You know what I mean? Sure. Running the monitors for the musicians on stage. And like he was doing it for Van Morrison at a festival in Ireland. And Van Morrison came to the side of the stage mid set, like walked off stage to the side where my friend was working monitors, pulled his pants all the way down so his and balls were hanging out, and wiped his and balls off with the towel in front of my friend. So he saw Van Morrison's balls and dick.
- [38:33]
A
Wow.
- [38:35]
B
And like his sweaty balls and dick. It was just like mid, mid concert, his pants all the way down to his ankles, like a child pissing at a urinal. And just saw Van Morrison just like wiping himself down and then he like just pulled his pants back upstage. So right in front of me, he's like, all right, that's the guy who wrote into the Mystic. Just wiped his balls off in front of me.
- [38:58]
A
Good lord. He's got to be. What is going on down there that it's so severe you need to walk off stage and then pants fully down and give the whole thing a wipe down. That's.
- [39:09]
C
He's the hardest working man in. In. In show business.
- [39:12]
A
I guess he was probably doing more high kicks. Like he did the Last Waltz and you know, getting. Getting a little lubricated down there.
- [39:18]
B
He would fucking die if he did that.
- [39:21]
A
He slimmed down these. Have you.
- [39:23]
C
He's like Ozempic.
- [39:25]
A
He's got the Ozempic. He's got the Wegovy look to him, which is a little sad, to be honest.
- [39:30]
C
January 23rd. Okay. Wow. It's coming up. This is coming up this month.
- [39:35]
A
Honestly, I think I'm gonna go see him. We were talking about this when you were up here, Evan. He's playing.
- [39:40]
B
He's playing in la?
- [39:41]
A
No, he's playing in San Francisco. He and his daughter are doing a co headlining residency here at the palace of Fine Arts for like four or five nights. Just like two, three weeks after that CD drops, I'm gonna. I think I gotta go see this.
- [39:54]
C
Well, you're not a big fan of him, but it's like, oh, Van Morrison, I don't know. But his daughter.
- [39:59]
A
There you go.
- [40:00]
C
I'm trying to see her.
- [40:03]
B
Yeah, I'm more of a daughter head. Yeah. I mean the town just like in their. In their genes, it passed on to her.
- [40:09]
A
Shayna Morrison. He brings her out in that. In that. That. The San Francisco.
- [40:15]
B
The.
- [40:15]
C
The.
- [40:15]
A
What's the.
- [40:16]
C
A night in San Francisco.
- [40:17]
A
A night in San Francisco. Exactly. The. The live album from like 1995 or something. Shayna Morrison.
- [40:23]
C
God, I have something to live for now. January 23rd. That's. Somebody tried to tell me a bridge day.
- [40:28]
A
There you go.
- [40:29]
B
Yeah, I was like, this year I was not looking forward to. I was probably gonna fucking walk in front of a bus. But now I have something to look forward to. A new Van Morrison record.
- [40:37]
C
Well, I'm sure that's. That's how a lot of oil men feel today. They were like, ugh, everything sucks. And then they wake up this morning, they're like, you know what? Things are. Things are good.
- [40:47]
A
Yeah. We're off to a bang up start here in January. Zoron Sworn In, Regime Change, War in Venezuel and new Van Morrison album. What. What else could you ask for?
- [40:56]
B
He's doing like a residency in San Francisco.
- [40:59]
A
Yeah, he's playing like five nights here. I'm looking at tickets.
- [41:02]
B
Five? You're not five.
- [41:04]
A
They're. They're pretty. They're pretty priceless. Seems like most of these tickets are sold out at this point, but I think I can catch. Looks like maybe the last night, February 24th. There's still a couple regular price tickets, so.
- [41:22]
B
Staring at a horse Got bad legs it's got nothing going on Wasted hours Blame it off on the establishment so boring.
- [41:40]
C
Take me, take me back Don't. What are you listening to these days of in terms of new music that's got new feelings?
- [41:57]
B
Something new stuff I'm listening to. I like the new Westerman record a lot.
- [42:03]
C
Oh yeah.
- [42:04]
B
I thought he was great. I like Westerman a lot. I think he's a really great songwriter. I first heard him. He has a song called Confirmation that I heard. It's one of the best. I hate to call it indie rock or whatever, because it's not, but it's like in the indie rock like world or whatever, it's like one of the best songs I've ever heard. It's called Confirmation. It's wow. It's kind of like a really bent, sort of Steely Dan, maybe are like kind of like Blue Nile or Prefab Sprout sort of sounding thing. It's really gorgeous. It's like such a heavy song. It's really, really gorgeous. I love that song. And everything he's done after has been really good to great. He had a new record out pretty recently that I've been into called A Jackal's Wedding.
- [43:03]
C
It's.
- [43:04]
B
It's like pretty melted songwriting in the production. He's like a kind of producer too, as well as a songwriter. He's got a really interesting ear.
- [43:13]
C
It's got a really cool album cover, I thought one of the nicer ones I've seen lately. Just on a side note.
- [43:21]
B
Yeah, and he's an interesting guy. He's got a lot of really cool ideas. I heard this shoegaze band called Total Wife I thought was cool. To be frank, my finger is on the polls for a lot of new stuff.
- [43:36]
C
Yeah, I saw that you posted like a while back, like in Aug. I don't know if it seemed like you were on the Cameron Winter train a bit. A bit early.
- [43:46]
B
Yeah, I like Cameron Winter a lot. I think. Cameron. I think the Cameron Winter record's great. I haven't listened to the Geese stuff as much. I saw Geese. I saw them. They played at the Paramount in Brooklyn. I. I thought they're pretty cool. But I like the camera. I think the Camera Winter record is incredible.
- [44:06]
A
Did you go to one of those Cameron Winter shows where he had, you know, PTA and Benny Safdie, like, shooting?
- [44:12]
B
I didn't get to make it to that, unfortunately. Didn't get to make it to that.
- [44:15]
A
It seemed like the place to be there. In New York City.
- [44:18]
B
Yeah, I wish. I wish I. I got to shake his hand and meet him, though. He seems really friendly and I think he's got such a bright future ahead of him. I think he's. I think he's like kind of a generational talent. I think he's going to be around for a long time. I think he's great. Yeah, he seems really smart and really just kind of put together. So I think he'll. I think he's gonna be fine for life, you know.
- [44:42]
C
Yeah, I'm definitely interested to see what. What becomes of his career. I mean, just what he does next. Like once he's got like a discography, like, it'll be fun, I think, to see where he goes with it.
- [44:54]
B
Yeah, he's gonna be great, I think. Yeah. He seemed really sweet and kind. I'm really looking forward to it as well.
- [45:00]
A
Is there much of a. I mean, you may not have a clue in on this, Riley, but, like, you know, as a New York resident yourself these days, is there much of a, like, scene kind of around Geese back there? Because I can't really detect one from a distance. They kind of seem like they're a New York band. Obviously, much has been made of that. But, like, I kind of don't know of any other artists or acts that are, like, in that same constellation there.
- [45:29]
B
I can't give you a clear answer. It seems like to me they maybe came up kind of on their own, against the Grain. I don't know. I don't know who their peers are, to be honest. I had heard they toured King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard. But they're Australian. Yeah.
- [45:50]
C
Yeah. This seems to be on a different thing than that.
- [45:54]
B
I don't know if it's like a Strokes thing where they kind of just were a band sort of on their own in New York. Yeah. I don't know who to tie them to. If they're part of a young indie rock scene or something. I'm sure they have tons of friends or something, but I really don't know. I'm not part of, like, that young sort of rock music scene or anything. I don't know where they started playing or where their early gigs were or anything. If you asked me, it's like they. A few years ago, they came out of New York playing smaller clubs. I don't know with who.
- [46:32]
A
Sure.
- [46:34]
B
But, yeah, I don't know. I think. I'm certain at this point. There's like a hundred bands that sound like Geese already. I was working at this bar called Nightclub 101.
- [46:46]
A
That place has been popping up recently. They. They book tons of great.
- [46:50]
B
It's a real popular bar. I was working there last year as a bartender, and I remember MJ Lenderman got really big around the time I was working there. And it was like over night. 50 young men sounded like M.J. lenderman. And I can imagine it's the same thing at that bar right now, where it's like. Like 50 bands are sort of like sort of bent, sort of weird indie rock, sort of Prague, exploratory, whatever you want to call Geese. That's definitely what younger bands want to be doing now, which is great.
- [47:31]
C
Yeah.
- [47:32]
B
Geese is. Geese is really pushing Geese. Geese is sort of a silver bullet right now for young bands that I like because when I was working at nightclub 101 is A. It's like a cool spot for younger bands to play, I guess. And when I was working there, and I don't mean to like on anybody but it was like a lot of like mopey, like hard on sleeve singer, songwriter, which like I can't take anymore. It's like it's gotta go. And you know, I'm not, I'm not saying, you know, the influence just looms large of like Phoebe Bridgers and stuff like that. So. Which is like great and she's talented and stuff but I think like that music post, post over and over is just like we. It's, you know, I think like Geese is like kind of like the silver bullet to that and just like all right, here's something fresh. And that's why like I think Geese is so great. It's just like it's wonderful new music and that's why I think Cameron's so great. It's like this is like, you know, know wonderful new sort of way of writing music and thinking about the world. He has such a fresh perspective on the world that's not so dour to be honest. I think a lot of like the music I've heard, at least it's gotten popular, has been really dower and that's why I like MJ Lenderman and I think Cameron's great too. I don't know, I don't personally identify with them much because they're a lot younger than me and whatever but I, I love their writing so much because they're both really funny and they have such like a unique way of looking at the world and I think that's like, I don't know, start of something new and fraction music that I, I'm excited about for the Young Guns.
- [49:23]
A
Yeah. I feel that I appreciate the sort of, I don't know, weirdness for lack of a better term or like idiosyncrasy kind of coming back because I feel like for a long time, especially a lot of that singer songwriter stuff or you know, dour kind of self, serious trauma based, you know, whatever type of shit. Like it was very like, yeah, this is my trauma.
- [49:43]
B
Like I see. I go to therapy like that. Like it's great, I'm glad it happened, you know, but it's like it's, it's. I can't know.
- [49:51]
A
Well, just it all kind of got one note at a certain point, especially once you got to the copies and the copies of the copies and stuff. And like I'm. I'm glad that there are just like sort of some Weird guys around again, you know, for lack of a better term.
- [50:05]
C
Well, it's like with, with Geese I think, you know, you talk about like younger bands or other contemporary kids, you know, trying to like sound like them. I have a feeling like sounding. Trying to sound like Geese is. You're going to end up probably just sounding like yourself because they have. You can't really do exactly what they do. If you, if someone were to just ape that it would be kind of a waste of time. But it feels kind of open ended. Like it's like trying to sound like the be Beatles. Like you try to write a Beatles song, it'll. It'll sound like you more than the Beatles. Probably like Billy Joel tried that. Well, he, he didn't do that. There's a couple of times when he just did the sound like the Billy Joel's trying to sound like the Beatles, but I don't know. Yeah, it's like it feels a bit looser and it. And we're comfortable with being kind of like loose with, with being a little bit like it's harder to pigeonhole them as like they sound like this.
- [51:00]
B
Yeah, I don't know where are they going? He's just gonna like two or more this year.
- [51:05]
A
Like I think they got. Yeah, they got a big Euro leg. I think in the spring, summer they're doing like Primavera and those type of festivals and then I think so they'll just keep.
- [51:13]
B
Yeah, they're just not gonna stop this year.
- [51:15]
A
Yeah, I think this year they're just like. Because the, the last tour I went to see them at the, the Fillmore up here, you know, in the fall and it was just like it was the most sold out show I'd been to, you know, in months. Like, like it actually felt like something people were trying to get into instead of just like a rock show that people go to because they don't have anything better to do on a Thursday night. And so I think like they, whoever's booking them at this point, like they got, they got bigger venues, they got bigger checks to cash, which God bless them, they should. I mean Cameron Winner was playing those shows at Carnegie Hall. Like those are. That's. That's orders of magnitude larger I think than they were at just a year ago or something.
- [51:51]
B
Yeah, I saw him at the Brooklyn. I got into the show at the Brooklyn Paramount which is downtown Brooklyn and I don't know how many people holds 4,005. It was big show. Everybody was so excited. It was so cool. Like, I don't know. I Just saw like so many people like in their late teens, early 20s who were so excited, you know, and the, the energy in the room, everybody, I don't know, it made me happy to see so many people happy.
- [52:21]
A
Yeah, I think the youth of it is like, is interesting too. That was the thing that I noticed when I saw him was like I was one of the old guys there, you know, and I like, I say this is, I just saw like Luna and Yola Tango at the Fillmore on New Year's Eve the other night. Fantastic show, Love them both. But like the crowd is full of like graybeards and the ponytail guys that you were talking about that are talking your ear off about XTC and stuff. And like it's great to see a, whatever 22 year old kid with blue hair actually at a rock show and really digging it.
- [52:53]
C
Who's showing up to your shows age wise, what's your demographic? When you're out on the road, who are you bringing in?
- [53:00]
B
I mean, 10 years ago when I. 10, 12, 13 years ago it was, you know, when I put out my first record on Secretly Canadian which was like just absolute UK folk pastiche, it was middle aged men who collected those sorts of records, you know. So it's like tough to get a girl out to the show, to be honest these days. It's like gotten a little more of a mixed crowd I guess. But back then, you know, for the longest time it was just, you know, record collector people, which is middle aged men. But I guess it's sort of skewed a bit younger these days. I'm, I'm actually really surprised and flattered that I've always flown under the radar and I'm, I'm very content with that. I don't, I don't ever expect to make a, like a full time living off of music. I have like regular jobs I've always sort of done. I don't, I don't like the idea of making a living off of music at this point in my life full time. That's like too stressful for me and like, I don't, I don't like it. I like having a foot in the real world and stuff. I guess what I'm saying is that I've always had like a small crowd and the small crowd I've always been really appreciative of and at this point it's becoming a bit younger and it's taken a while to like get young people out to the show and a lot of like sort of kids in their early twenties have come up to me recently and be like, oh, I listened to you when I was like in high school or something like that. And I. I really appreciate that. It's taken a while for it to sort of come to that, you know, it really means a lot to me that like. Like, you know, like younger people are. Would say something like that, you know, because for a long time it was just kind of like old record collector dudes. And that was, you know, I put that out there. It's like, oh, this is record collector music and stuff. But I'd like to think I have a bigger palate than that, and I think I'm doing that with the new music I'm making.
- [55:17]
C
Young people aspire to be record collectors now. They're just like, how do I get to be like a record collector?
- [55:22]
A
Every record collector was once a young, you know, a kid. Just a little tadpole in the. In the big swamp of record collecting, CD collecting, for that matter.
- [55:32]
B
We were all once held in our mother's arms, all of us record collectors.
- [55:37]
A
That's right. Well, I'm gonna come. Come and check you out when you. When you hit the chapel up here in a couple weeks, I think. A friend of the pod, Aaron Olson, is also playing in Dave Paho's band. So it's gonna be a whole, whole family affair. There's.
- [55:51]
B
Yeah. Los Angeles, California, at 2220 Arts. Is that what it's called?
- [55:58]
C
Yeah, it's just the address, but it's. Yeah, it was formerly the Bootleg theater.
- [56:04]
B
I played the bootleg way back. Way back when. That's great. That's on the 14th, I think the chapel's on the 15th of January. San Diego on the 13th, Sacramento on the. I don't know what, whatever. Just Google it.
- [56:19]
A
We'll put some links in the episode description.
- [56:22]
B
And it should be noted that I'm playing a bunch of gigs with David Paho, who's plays his Papa M, formerly of Slint, wrote other guitar rips for Slint and Stereo Lab and Tortoise, very influential guitars. His solo records, whatever Mortal and Live From a Sharks Cage, are unstoppable guitar records from the Drag City catalog. All of your listeners should check those out immediately.
- [56:51]
A
I don't think I've ever listened. I'll put it on the list.
- [56:54]
C
Were you a Slint guy, Ian? Did you ever listen?
- [56:56]
B
No.
- [56:56]
A
No. I appreciate the whole Spiderland thing. I think I just. Maybe it didn't hit me at the right time. It seems like the kind of thing that you gotta get into when you're like 16 and then have it really nail you there. And I get it and it's cool but I just. It doesn't. It didn't. It didn't land for me then you'd.
- [57:17]
B
Like his solo record Live from a Shark's Cage.
- [57:19]
A
I think Live from a Shark's cage.
- [57:23]
B
It's like 99 on Drag City Records. It's so good. It's a solo guitar record. Super brooding, like really beautiful. I can't recommend it enough. It's. It's one of my favorite like solo guitar records ever.
- [57:43]
C
So sorry. Is the stuff you're working on now are you working on more instrumental stuff or are you. Do you have a. A record of songs?
- [57:52]
B
No, it's sing songs with like lyrics.
- [57:54]
C
Stuff full on songs.
- [57:57]
A
Full on songs. It's got the music and the lyrics.
- [58:00]
C
And lyrics that's you know, that's the best type when. When it has both of those that.
- [58:04]
B
We love that music and words. Yeah. The last music and words music I made was or came out was in 2021 maybe course and fade record. Thank you very much. Five years ago since that record. So hopefully next year I'll have a new record out.
- [58:20]
A
Great songs next year like this year or next year like this year.
- [58:24]
B
Yeah. Sorry. This year. Yeah.
- [58:26]
A
Sick.
- [58:26]
C
Not to put make it seem like I'm not interested in the instrumental stuff. It's. I. I mean I haven't said it but you're. You're playing as gorgeous. It's just so.
- [58:36]
B
Thanks man.
- [58:36]
C
Brings sanity in dark times. I was listening to it on the walk home from like 2am last night after just reading about our latest activities as a nation and it calmed me. It soothed me.
- [58:52]
B
Oh, thank you brother. That's what I do. That's what I do.
- [58:56]
A
Word.
- [58:57]
B
I bring peace to a nation.
- [58:59]
A
Riley Walker Bringing peace to the United States and Venezuela.
- [59:02]
C
Concert for Venezuela.
- [59:17]
B
I'm gonna seize the rapture.
- [59:22]
C
Broken thumb on the hurt button.
- [59:28]
B
Twist be unfur thought.
- [59:36]
A
Thanks again to Riley Walker. Probably will not be bringing peace to Venezuela anytime soon, but will be bringing great tunes to your backyard. At least if you're here on the west Coast. San Diego, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Sacramento. I think it gets up to Seattle 2 those dates coming up this very week. At least if you're listening to this episode the day that it posts link in the episode description. Hope to see you at one of the gigs. Until next time, this has been Joker.
- [60:22]
B
And pivots to a peep show. A lot of wives leaving lipstick.
- [60:32]
A
On.
- [60:32]
B
The end of Virginian slims making up the markings of Christian sex in daydreams, Sam. Sa.