Jokermen LIVE with Max Clarke & Jeff Tweedy

Podcast: Jokermen
Date: March 24, 2026
Guests: Max Clarke (Cut Worms), Jeff Tweedy (Wilco)
Main Theme:
A deep exploration of Max Clarke’s new Cut Worms album Transmitter (produced by Jeff Tweedy), creative collaboration, the ethos of Chicago’s music scene, and the enduring power of songwriting.

Episode Overview

This live episode, recorded at Chicago’s Old Town School of Folk Music, brings together singer-songwriter Max Clarke (a.k.a. Cut Worms) and legendary Wilco frontman Jeff Tweedy to discuss the soon-to-be-released Cut Worms album Transmitter, which Tweedy produced and played on. The conversation covers songwriting processes, the significance of artistic collaborations, the importance of scene and place (especially Chicago), the evolution of Cut Worms as a project, and the enduring role of music as both art and community-building.

The episode flows with warmth, humor, and genuine insight into the intricacies of making meaningful, lasting music.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Genesis of a New Record

[03:16–04:21]

• Max describes how the idea for a new record emerges gradually:

  "When I have... enough a number of them [songs], and I say, hey, that's a record right there." — Max Clarke (03:47)

• Notably, Max eschews the “box-writing” method attributed to Bob Dylan, admitting he doesn’t collect song fragments in a literal box:

  “Not familiar with the box method.” — Max Clarke (04:14)

• Jeff Tweedy jokes you have to bury the box in the woods and return later for song inspiration.

2. Producer-Artist Collaborations: The Good, the Bad, and the Legendary

[04:29–06:17]

• Both guests praise iconic artist/producer matchups:

  “John Cale producing Patti Smith.” — Max Clarke (04:52)
  “Nick Lowe with Elvis Costello... I’m in pretty good company, Max.” — Jeff Tweedy (05:08)

• In terms of negative experiences, both struggle to name a situation where a producer truly harmed a record, referencing instead Bob Dylan's draining the swamp of Lanois’ production.

  “You have my blessing. We started there, I think.” — Jeff Tweedy, on future de-producing (05:57)

3. How the Max Clarke–Jeff Tweedy Partnership Developed

[06:31–08:14]

• Max recounts how opening for Wilco on tour led to a casual invitation by Jeff to record at The Loft:

  “Glenn...was like, yeah, you should do that. Because [Jeff] doesn't like always say that.” — Max Clarke (07:17)

• Jeff jokes, “I say that to everybody,” before admitting, “No, I don’t.”

4. Studio Dynamics: Collaboration, Roles, & Creative Trust

[08:24–10:28]

• Rather than a divide between producer and artist, the recording sessions often felt collaborative—Jeff played extensively, especially bass.

  “The songs are so good. I wanted to get in on them, I guess.” — Jeff Tweedy (08:43)

• On disagreements:

  “I would audition ideas and Max would shoot them down...that’s fine.” — Jeff Tweedy (09:27)
  “Usually it’s like me just banging my head against the wall... but this time we kind of let you do that.” — Max Clarke (09:53)

5. The Name and Nature of Cut Worms

[10:31–13:24]

• Max reflects on using Cut Worms as a band/stage name:

  “It had the advantage of being like an external thing... it expands your person bigger than...” — Max Clarke (11:05)
  “Some people don’t like the name.” — Max Clarke (11:26)

  • The name comes from William Blake’s “The cut worm forgives the plough,” tying into themes of humility and forgiveness.
• On meaning:

  “It’s like Worms, it’s like the lowest life form... And it Cut, it’s like a dead worm too.” — Max Clarke (13:10)

6. The Evolving Concept of “The Band”

[13:27–15:38]

• Max notes he’s become more collaborative:

  “I’ve opened it up more to having other people...turns out good to involve other people.” — Max Clarke (15:02)

• First track on the new album is co-written with drummer Noah:

  “Yeah, that’s one of my favorites on the record. And, yeah, I didn’t come up with it.” — Max Clarke (15:44)

7. The Art of Producing

[15:52–17:28]

• Jeff’s philosophy:

  “I just want to help them make a record where you don’t hear a producer... I try to be what I wanted other people to be to me and weren’t sometimes... make somebody feel comfortable and validated and encouraged and seen.” — Jeff Tweedy (16:14, 16:51)

8. Expectations & “Name” Producers

[17:54–19:24]

• Max describes not feeling pressured about working with someone as well-known as Jeff.

  “The only thing that’s gonna make it good is if it just speaks for itself.” — Max Clarke (18:58)

9. Musical Discovery & Mutual Influence

[19:24–22:32]

• Max first heard Wilco in high school from a “cool older friend” (who skateboarded).
• Jeff remembers discovering Cut Worms as an online music digger:

  “Max has a singular thing...that’s hard to do. It’s hard to have, like, a voice that’s recognizable... your voice is the main thing I was really drawn to.” — Jeff Tweedy (21:11)

10. The Songwriter vs. the Narrator

[22:32–25:32]

• Max blurs the distinction, noting all songs carry something personal, but the best ones create space for listeners.

  “Most of the songs that I like have, like, enough space in them for other people to bring themselves to them.” — Max Clarke (24:45)

• Jeff adds:

  “When the record’s over... I want to spend more time with that voice.” — Jeff Tweedy (27:07)

11. Artistic Evolution & Longevity

[27:14–30:11]

• Max admits he doesn’t see his career as a journey, more “one foot in front of the other.”
• Jeff’s perspective on sustaining a musical life:

  “There were choices to make that would not allow me to keep doing it... making more money wasn’t necessarily going to make me be able to keep doing it.” — Jeff Tweedy (28:57)
  “All I can attribute to it is willingness to work... a desire to make the decision that allows me to do it tomorrow.” — Jeff Tweedy (30:04)

12. The Importance of Physical Scenes & Chicago’s Influence

[30:16–39:52]

• Emphasis on Chicago’s nurturing music scene, the Old Town School as a community center, and contrasts with more commercial/cutthroat cities.

  “The city invested in its... culture, invested in its, you know, sharing music as an activity, as a way of life versus just, you know, entertainment.” — Jeff Tweedy (32:02)

• Discussion of the folk ethos as democratic, inclusive, non-competitive:

  “I don’t think being good at something is the point of doing something... That’s the folk ethos.” — Jeff Tweedy (34:18)

13. Chicago’s Character as Musical Incubator

[35:06–38:44]

• Chicago and the Midwest are praised for letting artists “suck for a lot longer,” allowing authentic development.

  “The bands that you love are the ones that went through sucking longer, I think.” — Jeff Tweedy (35:50)

• Steve Albini’s legacy as a “solid North Star” for local, non-commercial artistic values.

14. The Emotional Weight of Returning to Chicago

[38:44–40:37]

• Max reflects on returning to Chicago after 10 years:

  “Just the process of coming back...being by myself in, like, downtown...coming back and actually doing that, it did, you know, it was kind of affecting.” — Max Clarke (38:51)

• The return marks a full-circle validation for his musical journey.

Notable Quotes

• Max Clarke:

  "When I have enough... I say, hey, that's a record right there." (03:47)

• Jeff Tweedy:

  “I just want to help them make a record where you don’t hear a producer. I like working with people that sound like themselves when the room is empty and it’s not coming through the speakers.” (16:14)
  “There were choices to make that would not allow me to keep doing it... making more money wasn’t necessarily going to make me be able to keep doing it.” (28:57)
  “The bands that you love are the ones that, like, went through sucking longer, I think.” (35:50)

• Host’s summary:

  “People in a room together making it happen...that’s what it’s all about.” (31:38)

• On the Chicago scene:

  “The city invested in its... culture, invested in its, you know, sharing music as an activity, as a way of life versus just, you know, entertainment.” — Jeff Tweedy (32:02)

• On creative voice:

  “Allowing yourself to sing like yourself. I notice always that's, you know, your voice is the main thing I was really drawn to.” — Jeff Tweedy (21:54)

Chicago, Community, and the Folk Ethos

[32:00–39:52]

• Celebration of the Old Town School and enduring music clubs as incubators for art and community.
• The city's culture, affordability, and camaraderie among musicians create a nurturing space distinct from the coasts.

Live In-Studio Performances

[41:18–53:27]

• Max Clarke performs several songs from the new album Transmitter, including the opener co-written with drummer Noah.
  • Notable moments of gratitude and self-effacing humor between songs:

    “I know, nobody wants to hear the new stuff ever. Just kidding.” — Max Clarke (45:22)

Timestamps for Notable Segments

• 03:16: On starting a new record
• 04:29: Producer/Artist synergy (John Cale, Nick Lowe, etc.)
• 06:31: How collaboration began
• 08:24: Roles in the studio
• 15:52: Jeff Tweedy on the art of producing
• 19:24: Mutual musical discoveries
• 22:32: Narrator vs. songwriter discussion
• 27:14: Longevity and artistic journey
• 32:00: The magic of Chicago’s music scene
• 35:50: Importance of “sucking” while developing
• 38:44: Max on returning to Chicago
• 41:18: Live cut worms set

Closing Segment

• Upcoming Cut Worms tour and release of Transmitter announced (Lincoln Hall, May 9).
• Closing with a heartfelt thank you from Max, Jeff, and the Jokermen hosts to the audience and to the Old Town School.

Summary

This episode offers a rare, multi-layered look at contemporary music-making: its lineage, daily realities, and personal stakes. It’s a conversion rich in warmth, humility, inside jokes, and genuine reverence for the community-centered approach that Chicago music fosters. For fans and newcomers alike, it’s a vivid reminder that good music—and good scenes—are built on collaboration, generosity, and a willingness to “suck” long enough to become something special.