NES 035: Bob Dylan LIVE, 3/18/24

Summary

Podcast Summary: Jokermen Episode NES 035: Bob Dylan LIVE, 3/18/24

Introduction and Episode Overview

In this episode of the Jokermen Podcast, hosts Ian, Evan, and Steve delve deep into Bob Dylan's latest performances from the Rough and Rowdy Ways Tour, particularly focusing on the March 18, 2024, show at the Crown Theater in Fayetteville, North Carolina. The discussion navigates the potential conclusion of the tour, unique aspects of the Fayetteville show, and broader reflections on Dylan's enduring artistry.

Speculation on the Finality of the Tour

The conversation kicks off with speculation about whether Dylan's Rough and Rowdy Ways Tour might be his final leg. Steve notes the unusual longevity of the tour:

Steve (01:05): “Bob Dylan announcing a tour in 2021 and setting it in 2024 has anyone really explored like how weird that is?”

Ian expresses doubt about the tour's immediate conclusion, hinting at the possibility of an additional fall leg:

Ian (02:19): “I kind of feel like there's going to be one more fall leg. There's something in the back of my mind is telling me that he's not done with this quite yet.”

The Criterion Collection Release of "Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid"

The hosts shift focus to the anticipated Criterion Collection release of Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid. They discuss the inclusion of an exclusive interview with Clinton Halen and the significance of a new cut of the film that aligns closely with Sam Peckinpah's original vision:

Ian (06:28): “There's going to be a Criterion Collection release of Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid, featuring as a special added bonus element, an interview, an exclusive never before seen interview with one Mr. Clinton Halen.”

Steve shares his enthusiasm for the new 4K edition and the complexities surrounding different film cuts:

Steve (08:31): “There's a Warner cut that has some more of the stuff that Peckinpah wanted. It's also not quite.”

Discussion on Drummers of the Tour

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to discussing the various drummers who have been part of Dylan's tours over the years. The hosts debate their favorites, highlighting Kenny Buttrey, Winston Watson, and newer additions like George Roselli:

Ian (19:20): “It's tough.”

Bob (24:41): “I think my picks are...more of a idiosyncratic style because I think it brings out some of Bob's idiosyncratic style as well.”

They also touch upon the evolving lineup, including the recent addition of Jimmy Vaughn, and how these changes impact the tour's sound:

Steve (25:39): “He's also going to shout out my boy, David Kemper. I think he's a great drummer.”

Highlight: Fayetteville, North Carolina Show

The Fayetteville show is hailed as a standout performance on the tour. Ian and Steve praise the roominess of the recording, the vibrant energy of the crowd, and the band's dynamic interplay:

Steve (32:01): “I feel like this is a very different version of the Rough and Rowdy Ways tour.”

Ian (32:01): “It's a pretty different version of the tour...this might be the most different version of the Rough and Rowdy Ways tour.”

Evan shares his personal connection to the performance of "To Be Alone With You," emphasizing its emotional resonance:

Evan (44:46): “I've made up my mind that he manages at this show with this...utterly transformed with the way that he plays the harp on it.”

Analysis of Specific Song Performances

The hosts provide in-depth analyses of specific live performances from the Fayetteville show, highlighting "Every Grain of Sand" and "Key West." They commend the unique arrangements and the integration of the harp, which adds a new dimension to Dylan's renditions:

Ian (43:01): “The harp work again, you know, as we've said, incredible.”

Steve (62:21): “This song, it is so beautifully played. The harmonica solos on every grain of sand.”

They also explore the stripped-down version of "Big River," discussing how Dylan's minimalist approach transforms the song's essence:

Ian (63:29): “What does he absolutely leave behind in every single version of Big River that he's been playing on this tour? The chain gang thump, the acoustic rhythm guitar.”

Integration of Harp and Evolving Setlists

A recurring theme is Dylan's incorporation of the harp into live performances. The hosts marvel at how this instrument enriches songs like "Every Grain of Sand," providing a soulful and ethereal quality:

Bob (48:23): “It's so, it's, really just. There's not a lot there. And it is what you were just saying...”

The discussion extends to how Dylan's setlists have evolved, particularly in response to the COVID-19 pandemic, leading to the inclusion of various cover songs that align with the tour's new dynamics.

Future Prospects and Closing Remarks

As the episode draws to a close, the hosts reflect on the legacy of the Rough and Rowdy Ways Tour and its impact on Dylan's illustrious career. They express hope for future performances and tease upcoming episodes, including an interview with a notable member of Dylan's touring band:

Ian (94:30): “Remind us of the magnitude of what he accomplished over the last couple years.”

Steve (95:50): “We are finally delving into the cast of the Never Ending Tour.”

The episode concludes with heartfelt praise for Dylan's enduring artistry and the exceptional performances that have defined this tour's final chapters.

Notable Quotes

• Steve (01:05): “Bob Dylan announcing a tour in 2021 and setting it in 2024 has anyone really explored like how weird that is?”

• Ian (02:19): “I kind of feel like there's going to be one more fall leg. There's something in the back of my mind is telling me that he's not done with this quite yet.”

• Evan (44:46): “I've made up my mind that he manages at this show with this...utterly transformed with the way that he plays the harp on it.”

• Ian (63:29): “What does he absolutely leave behind in every single version of Big River that he's been playing on this tour? The chain gang thump, the acoustic rhythm guitar.”

Conclusion

This episode of Jokermen offers a comprehensive and passionate exploration of Bob Dylan's Rough and Rowdy Ways Tour, spotlighting standout performances, musical evolution, and the potential closure of a monumental chapter in Dylan's career. Whether you're a long-time fan or new to Dylan's live performances, this discussion provides valuable insights into his artistry and the enduring legacy of his music.

Transcript

[Steve]

Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Would you please welcome Columbia recording artist Bob Dylan?

[Evan]

I ain't complaining about what I got.

[Ian]

Welcome back to Neverending Stories, a podcast about Bob Dylan and once again, the Rough and Rowdy Ways tour. I'm Ian.

[Bob]

I'm Evan.

[Steve]

And I'm Steve.

[Ian]

And Today's show is March 18, 2024, the Crown Theater in beautiful Fayetteville, North Carolina, with a few other, you know, shows thrown in here for good measure. Because Bob Dylan has just completed his most recent and potentially final. I guess that's what everyone seems to think from what I can tell, leg of the Rough and Rowdy Ways tour.

[Steve]

Yeah, we're speculating on this. And by the way, can I just say that Bob Dylan announcing a tour in 2021 and setting it in 2024, has anyone really explored like how weird that is that? Because normally like with these tours you think, and maybe he did have this booked throughout like the two and a half year span, the 200 plus shows. I don't really think he did have the whole tour book, but he's like, I'm gonna do this until 2024 at some point. And that's just it, that's what he's done. It's a very weird thing. And we're assuming it's over, but we have no idea.

[Bob]

We don't know about the too rough, too rowdy ways to work.

[Ian]

I honestly, like, I know everyone's assuming it's done because you know, he's going out on this outlaw tour with Willie in a couple months at this point, honestly, right around the corner, to be frank. Just weeks at this point. But I don't know, I kind of feel like there's going to be one more fall leg. You know, there's something in the back of my mind is telling me that he's not done with this quite yet.

[Steve]

And like, what if he comes out on the outlaw tour and it's, you know, it's like the same set, you know, he comes out and he's, he's just playing like the songs that we've all heard many times, but like on a larger stage, he, he could well.

[Ian]

Do it, to be honest.

[Steve]

I mean, watching the river flow just coming out like that could be like, what if he did that? Like watching the river flow coming out on the outlaw tour, it's like, hey, you thought it was over. It's not. I'm just doing the same thing.

[Ian]

I'm going to be so pissed, honestly, if he fucking starts playing. Watching the river flow on this thing.

[Bob]

He can't go electric again. All he can do is just disappoint in some other way.

[Ian]

Well, you know, it depends on the fans who he's going to like. Which fans is he, Is he seeking to disappoint? Right. Hopefully not. Hopefully not us fans. But honestly, something's going to. I think something's going to be different because you know, we saw with the farm age, he has a hankering to play different kind of music. He can do it very well, clearly, even on such short notice. Putting that together just a few days in advance with Campbell and the Knobs and even. We'll get into this a little bit later here tonight. But on the very last show, Night two in Austin, the last show of this most recent leg of the Rough and Rowdy Ways tour, maybe telegraphing a slightly more rockin, lively, rootsy sound that he could be pursuing in the near future.

[Bob]

Yeah, I mean he could just come out and do all the covers that he's done over the Rough and Rowdy tour and none of the originals.

[Ian]

That honestly would be great.

[Bob]

Just be in a cover band full time.

[Steve]

Like how fresh would it be though if he came out on the Outlaw tour and he played all along the Watchtower? That was like the first song because we, we joke about Watchtower Alert on this show but like he hasn't played that song like in the 2000 and twenties yet.

[Ian]

That's true.

[Bob]

Right.

[Ian]

2020 is almost halfway over.

[Steve]

That's like a deep cut at this point.

[Ian]

It is for Bob.

[Steve]

So that could be a pretty amazing thing if he did that. Not that I want him to do that.

[Ian]

I'm just saying, honestly, like I'm thinking about like a, like Bob Dylan in 2024 playing like a Rolling Stone and Blowing in the Wind and All along the Watchtower. I would be over the moon with that type of thing. Especially getting to see it live. Like just, you know, play the hits.

[Steve]

Bobby just comes out and plays Silvio Long. Silvio. Just like a, like a 15 minute Silvio to open Outlaw to Lord. How amazing would that be?

[Ian]

That would be. That would be scripted according to the Neverending Stories dream setlist scenario. I've always been fascinated also with just like, you know, he, he, he had, he had announced. I don't know if you guys remember this, but he had announced 2020 dates like months before, a couple months before COVID actually hit. You can even see the posters for them like Dylan Stubbs dot com. He had dates in, in June and July of 2020 which are points in time after Rough and Rowdy had even come out right, or ended up coming out in reality. But you know, these tours or these shows were not billed as rough and rowdy ways shows at that point. I just, I've always been kind of perplexed and fascinated by the concept of like, what if he had not. What if the pandemic hadn't happened and he had just kind of continued doing his thing? Would the record have come out differently? Would he have rebranded in some other way? Would this still be the Rough and Rowdy Ways tour? I don't know. It's a fascinating sliding doors moment.

[Steve]

It would be less rough and less rowdy.

[Bob]

The world would be a less rough and rowdy place. The globe, the which he has basically traversed all of in the span of the tour.

[Ian]

Well, we will have plenty more actual new tour news to cover in the near future, so stick with us, folks. But in terms of current news, just come across the news wire today. Hotly anticipated, I think by all of us at this point. There's going to be a Criterion Collection release of Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid, featuring as a special added bonus element, an interview, an exclusive never before seen interview with one Mr. Clinton Halen. Can't wait for that.

[Bob]

The Dark Prince himself, who, you know, as much as he knows about Bob Dylan, he's also an expert on the Wild Wild West.

[Ian]

That's right.

[Bob]

Can you imagine Clinton Halen wearing a cowboy hat?

[Ian]

I can actually. I think he does. Didn't he wear a cowboy hat to the the Beacon Theater show that we went to? Or he wore some sort of wide brimmed hat.

[Steve]

Wait, wait, wait, you saw Haylin?

[Ian]

We didn't see him, but he was at the same show that we were at at the Beacon theater in fall 21. And someone told us after the fact, like Halen was here glad handing with everyone.

[Bob]

Yeah, he was in the wings like the Phantom of the Opera, like dangling in the rafters with a cloak.

[Steve]

So yeah, this. It's a double disc Criterion Collection Blu ray. I think it's like a 4K edition. And yeah, there's like a. One of the bonus features is a documentary where. Well, it's like an interview with Clinton Halen, the Dark Prince, talking about the film and I think the soundtrack as well.

[Ian]

I think that's the focus of the.

[Bob]

Halen thing and Dylan's. I think it's called like Dylan and Durango. It's just like the years or it's about that period. You know him on the set, I imagine, and in the creative process.

[Ian]

I just love It. Because it's gonna be the, like, upmarket, you know, finely done version of the classic British rock doc, Talking Head. Bob Dylan thing, you know, Rainbow. Exactly. Those guys that we know and love. But it's gonna be all classy and Glo. And instead of interviewing the guy in the. I don't know any of those guys name, but the guy with the cutoff muscle shirt and the goatee and the big long ponytail, it's going to be Clinton Halen just sitting there talking about Turkey Chase, I guess.

[Steve]

Yeah, exactly.

[Bob]

That is going to be. That's a special feature. But really the big draw for this release is a new cut of the film.

[Ian]

That's right.

[Bob]

Which is, if listeners are unfamiliar, it's an infamously compromised movie. Sam Peckinpah was not able to have final cut. There's a couple different versions. People have their preferences for one versus the other, which is because some elements are better in others. It's just a totally mixed bag. But it's not as intended. And I, from what I understand, this cut is going to be the closest one ever to the actual directorial intent of Mr. Peckinpah.

[Ian]

That's what they're. That's what they're claiming. Yeah. So it's actually two. Two cuts of the movie on here. There is the 4K restoration of the standard, you know, the standard show or center film. But. But there's also a 2K restoration of what they're claiming is the preview cut, which according to the Sam Peckinpah Facebook page was. Is the closest thing that ever will exist, you know, to a director's cut and has never really ever before been seen, I guess, except for, you know, just a scant few people way back when.

[Steve]

I'm confused by this because I bought like a dvd, Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid, that came out probably in the late aughts, early 2000 and tens. And that was purported to be the Peckinpah cover.

[Bob]

There's a Warner cut that has some more of the stuff that Peckinpah wanted. It's also not quite.

[Ian]

Is that what you have, Steven, the Warner cut?

[Steve]

Yeah. I don't know. There's so many cuts. And you think like, with Peckinpah, this is like the beginning of him being extremely troubled, you know, like with this film, like where he was really slipping into deeply problematic alcoholism. So you're like, what exactly? Well, yeah, cocaine.

[Ian]

That's not problematic, though. That's cool.

[Steve]

Like, what can we consider to be his lucid, you know, conception of the film?

[Bob]

This is the edge. I mean, it was, from what I understand, partly the horrible experience he had with having this. His baby taken away from him with this picture. That kind of. It couldn't have helped in. In his decline.

[Steve]

I mean, the version that I've seen, like on the dvd, I own, like, I love that version. So I'm interested to see this new version to see if it's better than what I've already seen. I mean, it's a beautiful film. There's so many great things about it. You know, Kris Kristofferson, you got James Coburn, of course, Harry Dean Stanton. Harry Dean Stanton is in. Feels like a film that will never be finished. I feel like there's never going to be a definitive version of this movie.

[Bob]

But that's kind of another great thing about it is that. And why I'm so excited to see this new version is because I have seen both the other ones and there might even be a third other. There's a bunch. But the whole point of the movie kind of. It works thematically to have different versions of this movie in a way, like meta textually because it goes back and forth between perspectives. You're kind of rooting for and not rooting for both of them. And I think that the Peckinpah original, from what I've read, there's some really interesting diversions from both from the ones I have seen that add a lot of nuance and some. Some more tragic depth to that dynamic. So that is, if we get that and it really does change things, it might be a surprise that it feels like maybe the movie's finally basically complete.

[Steve]

I'm just excited. I just want Clinton Halen to tell me that the movie's actually terrible. That's why I'm gonna buy the Blu ray. I'm gonna buy the Blu ray because I want this beautiful, you know, version, like remaster the film that I can watch my big screen tv and then I want to watch the extra. I want to have the Dark Prince explain to me why this film is actually bad and why Dylan songs and score for the film is terrible. Because I know he will do that and. And he will refer to Bob in a very belittling way while doing it. Like he'll pay for Bob the Gunslinger. Maybe he'll call him Alias. Like that's his. That's his name. That's his character's name. You know, Call him what? Like Bob, the. The philanderer Bob about to get divorced. You know, like, he could do that. I just look forward to, like, Whatever insulting way the Dark Prince will, you know, have to describe, like, why is Criterion bringing in the Dark Prince?

[Bob]

Why was he the one bringing us in? That's the question.

[Steve]

Well, exactly. Well, that's, you know, I didn't want to, like, be that explicit with it.

[Bob]

I'm going to be that explicit with it.

[Steve]

But it's like, why the Dark Prince?

[Bob]

Come on, he's got enough coverage when it comes to this stuff. You know, throw some bread to the pigeons like us.

[Ian]

Well, you know, it's. That's what happens when you get movies guys trying to make decisions about music, stuff like this.

[Bob]

It's true. There is a kind of movies guys and music guys. It's like being from. It's like other countries. Like, we're sort of. We can respect each other's cultures, but there's going to be some things like they're just never going to be truly lost in translation. It's like going to Japan. You might think that they're being really polite and they are, but they're also like, oh, my God, this guy, he has no idea what he's talking about.

[Ian]

Well, regardless of whatever Clinton Halen has to say, nothing like a haughty British man to tell everyone about this beautiful memento of the fading glory of the American West. It sounds like this new cut is going to be. Gonna be worth something. There was actually a funny little story posted on the Sam Peckinpah Facebook page. You know, presumably maintained by someone from the Peckinpah state today on the occasion of the announcement. I don't know if you guys saw this, but they said that a heist, a quote unquote heist, was engineered to get Peckinpah's final preview print out of the projection room where it was screened and apparently hated by MGM executives. Peckinpah was walking off the picture. And a Watergate esque break in was orchestrated by those who felt that Sam's preview needed to be preserved. Unfortunately. Unfortunately, the cleanup crew didn't realize that it was an interlock print, which meant that sound and picture were separate. So they grabbed the picture and left the sound reel behind and then had to go on yet another mission to claim that they were ultimately all successful. Then when Sam was presented with the print, he was so. He was so paranoid, see, the problematic alcohol and cocaine addictions that he was sinking into, so paranoid that MGM was going to come after it that he put a fake title, the Racket Club, on the can. And that. That has just been sitting in his archives for the last 50 years at this point, never, never really seen, never to be released. And that, I guess that is what we're going to get here in this 2K preview print. So, you know, if people thought highly enough about it to break in, whatever that means to the MGM screening room several times to steal these things, it. It's got to be worth something.

[Steve]

Beautiful. Well, look, and obviously everyone involved in that scenario was extremely sober, so I think we can. We can trust the account as stated. Yeah, I'm excited. Look, any excuse to watch Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid, I'm gonna be all over it.

[Ian]

So let's.

[Steve]

So very excited.

[Ian]

We'll put this one on the docket. Episode coming in, I think July, right? Is that when it's coming out? A couple months from now.

[Bob]

Perfect.

[Steve]

That's a perfect. That's an amazing summer movie. I. I love watching that movie in the summer, so that'll be amazing.

[Ian]

Would you call it a patio movie?

[Steve]

Yeah, pretty much. Pretty much.

[Ian]

Just watch it on your iPhone on the patio.

[Steve]

No, you go inside. You can't watch that on a phone. Right.

[Ian]

But you gotta have the patio mindset while you're watching it.

[Bob]

Leave the sliding door open. You know, screen door can be on, but you got the door open. A little breeze coming through. Yeah, that's the patio movie mindset.

[Steve]

Bring the TV outside. I don't know. You gotta watch Peck and Paw on a nice tv.

[Ian]

Can't wait. Unlocked mailbox. Simple question. Good question from listener. Mitch just says Bob is best drummer and why you can only pick one. Easy as that. I had to put a little thought into this one.

[Steve]

Yeah, I did. I mean, I broke the rule.

[Ian]

Of course.

[Steve]

I didn't pick just one. So I don't know. I don't know. I. I'll let you guys go first.

[Ian]

I had a lot to think. I mean, so I guess when you guys were talking about or when you guys were thinking about it, were you thinking only never ending tour drummers or were you going like back to the very beginning and like live guys and studio guys?

[Bob]

I don't know. I mean, there's like two answers that I have, I think one for live and one for. It's tough.

[Ian]

Yeah, I had one for like, you know, best drummer who like, appears on studio stuff. Or like my favorite, for like a studio musician that Bob had played with and then another for, you know, an actual live musician. But they're like totally different from different eras. What about you, Stephen?

[Steve]

Well, I broke it into three categories.

[Ian]

Three categories. All right.

[Steve]

Yeah. And I. Yeah, I Had like, overall drummer and then I had like best drummer on a particular album and then best drummer on a particular tour.

[Ian]

Interesting. Okay.

[Steve]

Because look, you can't just ask a question and say best drummer. You have one answer. I don't know. I don't think you can do that. I mean, unless you're gonna say it's just never ending tour. Like, that might work, but I don't know.

[Ian]

That was what.

[Steve]

That's way too many drummers.

[Ian]

Yeah, I mean, that was what I kind of settled on. Like, if I had to give like an ironclad answer. I just like have my favorite drummer from the Neverending Tour, which is essentially the area of focus of this program. But you know, there are so many other fucking guys all throughout. All throughout the years that you want to. You want to throw some love at I. So for. For me, I'll just start with my studio pick in parentheses. Picks, plural. I really wanted to go for him and I felt like I had to. But like, I just. I don't know, I couldn't end up making it happen. For me, it was. It was Kenny Buttrey from, you know, John Wesley Harding, most famously, which is just like, you know, such like probably the. The greatest rhythm section I think that Bob has ever played with on a record. It's so unique and perfect and, you know, just like a. Like a shot in the dark, Shot of lightning. He never really captured that sound and feeling ever again. And it's. It's really just Buttrey and Charlie McCoy in the bass and Bob, like that's basically it. The whole record's Bob and guys. And there's. There's no. I don't think any two other guys could have made that record sound the way that it sounds. Ultimately. My favorite studio musician though, that Bob played with is just. It's Keltner or favorite drummer, I should say, because he just. He shows up so many times across so many records. He's there in the Bob studio records. He's there on the Wilbury stuff. You know, it's like, I just. Keltner is an all timer. But that's maybe even a fake answer as well, because Keltner is an all timer for every fucking musician, Every rock musician of the last 40, 50 years. My never Ending tour answer is Winston, which I think has been established as a favorite of ours on this program. You know, you gotta shout out, George Roselli. You gotta shout out. I actually was thinking about. Oh, fuck, what was his name? Why am I blinking now? Who's the drummer on the rough And Rowdy Ways Tour. Before Pentecost, it was Charlie Drayton. I'm thinking about Charlie Drayton, whose super light, jazzy brush focused touches on the first couple legs of the rough and Rounding Ways tour I just absolutely love, and I still kind of dig that more than I think the sound that Pentecost gets. Although he's great on these later runs too. But Winston is, you know, Winston is the man. Mid-90s sound and feeling is so perfect to me. And the way that he just is this kind of raw fury who brings almost kind of a metalish, you know, energy to a lot of these shows that seems like it shouldn't work and then totally does. Like, that's magic for me.

[Bob]

Well, you basically kind of gave up mine also. It's just sort of different order. I would. I think I'm going to just say Kenny Buttrey, because that's he's. It is just sort of magical drumming. Like, there's an inconsistency to the drumming that is really charming and keeps things so lively and full of character. On John Wesley Harding. I really love it. So I have to shout that out. I feel like it distills something I've always liked about earlier Dylan drumming, like the drumming on Like a Rolling Stone, for example, which is. That was actually. What's Bobby Greg. I believe that drumming is really kind of impressionistic and all over the place. If you really listen carefully. There's just kind of a lot of. It just sounds like that he's having fun and doing whatever but keeping up. It's not like session like pro guy vibe. It feels kind of woolier in a great way while still being really tight. And Buttrey is kind of, I think, the representative of that. That maybe we can shout out. And yeah, Winston Live is great for all the reasons you just threw out there.

[Ian]

Also just the swag that Winston brings. Yeah, big part of it.

[Bob]

I think my picks are. I'm leaning toward the drummers that have a bit more of a idiosyncratic style because I think it brings out some of Bob's idiosyncratic style as well. He sort of matches the drummer sometimes.

[Ian]

I see that. Sure, Steve.

[Steve]

All right, well, I'll just add to the Kenny Buttrey love. I mean, I. For my single album, pick John Wesley Harding. Yeah, Kenny Buttrey, that was like my pick. Also, we should mention Kenny Buttrey plays drums on Lay Lady Lay. He's the drummer on Memphis Mobile Blues again. You know, he plays on Blonde on Blonde. Just an incredible drummer. I'll say as a As a second choice for single album, I'm gonna shout out Howie Wyeth for Desire. And also just playing on that's a Rolling Thunder tour.

[Ian]

Yeah.

[Steve]

Great drummer. Single tour drummer. A little guy called Levon Helm. I think he's a pretty good drummer. Oh, God, before the Flood. I think he got a shout out.

[Ian]

You're putting me to shame on. I didn't even think about, like, anyone from the band.

[Bob]

It's. I mean, yeah, it's. They're so great.

[Steve]

Pretty good drummer.

[Ian]

Pretty good drummer. Levon Elm.

[Steve]

I'm also going to do, like, as a Dark Horse single tour drummer, Mickey Jones on the 66 tour, specifically the Judas Show. Judas. I said Judas.

[Ian]

Judist.

[Bob]

The Judith.

[Steve]

Judith. The Manchester Free Trade Hall Show. Just not a subtle drummer. He was like the Winston Watson of his age.

[Ian]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Steve]

I love just the basher. It's an incredible drummer.

[Ian]

You don't want settle in those shows.

[Bob]

When you hear him, like, there's those. The. Not the most famous recordings, but the ones that are, like, really stone sounding and, like super loud and slow. And he's just doing those hits on the snare. Like, it's.

[Ian]

So we should honestly just do an episode on one of the 66 shows. Like the way Robbie Robertson's guitar sounds like on every one of them. It's like, I've never heard a more badass guitar tone.

[Steve]

There's not like, a better lead guitar player. And like Mickey Jones again, like. And he ended up, you know, being a character actor. He was unjustified later on in his life and a bunch of other shows. Yeah, like, he was a character. Yeah. He had, like, many different lives. But back in 66, Mickey Jones replacing Levon Helm because he didn't want to play to all those people booing Dylan in the band or Dylan and the Hawks at the time. Never Ending tour era. George Rosselli, number one. Absolutely number one. And then I'm gonna shout out my boy, David Kemper. I think he's a great drummer. Coming into Dylan's band from the Jerry Garcia Band. After Jerry died, those two guys were. It was Kemper first and then George Rosselli. That's like my favorite era of the Neverending tour band. So got a shout out those guys as well. Also got a shout out. Stan Lynch. If we're going to do like a single tour drummer from the Heartbreakers, Stanley. A lot of great drummers, man. I can't believe I'm not talking about Keltner like you did. Ian Keltner is amazing.

[Ian]

Keltner yeah, Kelner's like, almost like a default pick. Like, you know, he's just.

[Steve]

He's just.

[Bob]

He can do. No, but there are drummers that. On individual shows. I confess I'm not the best at remembering members like that, which is, you know, my. Something I should be getting better at. But it's really.

[Ian]

I mean, the last 20, 25 years, it's really like. It's Kemper and it's really. Roselli, honestly, for like, what, 15 years, right? From like.

[Steve]

It's like 18 years.

[Ian]

Yeah, exactly. From Love and Theft basically up through.

[Steve]

I mean, he held the drum kit down it. It's kind of been like a revolving door on drummer like in the last, like five years. But before that, like, Rosselli was like, the man.

[Bob]

Yeah, there's some shows we've talked about that I thought the drumming was just really, really great. And I'm probably forgetting which ones.

[Steve]

I mean, the show we're talking about today, Jerry Pentecost, I think I'm going to be talking about it later on.

[Ian]

I think doing a great job.

[Steve]

It's very subtle, but he is so really good.

[Ian]

Yeah, I think he's really worn in and warmed up to what's going on there on these la. On the late era of the rough and rowdy Wayne Store.

[Steve]

Any guy like Matt Chamberlain too, who's like the degree of separation between Bob Dylan and Pearl Jam. So I gotta shout out Matt Chamberlain as well.

[Ian]

Chamberlain.

[Steve]

Chamberlain plays very early Pearl Jam era and he's also playing very late Bob Dylan era.

[Ian]

That's the, you know, and Steven Haydn sits smack dab there in the middle of that Venn diagram.

[Steve]

Yes, exactly.

[Ian]

I would also just shout out one more. I mean, we've clearly completely ruined Mitch's rules. So I apologize, Mitch, but Ian Wallace, also the forerunner to Winston, you know, that's the 90, 91, 92, 93 ish, I think, era of the shows, you know, which as we've covered extensively on this program at this point, you get some ups, you get some downs.

[Steve]

And he's 78 tour too. He's also the 78 tour drummer.

[Ian]

That's right. Yeah, man. Bob's. Imagine that. Bob Dylan's had some pretty good. Pretty good musicians playing around with them throughout the years. Well, you know, thank you. Sorry for. Sorry for fucking that question up, Mitch. Well, with that out of our system, should we return to the present day just a few scant weeks ago, here in the American Southeast, North Carolina. Fate.

[Bob]

Let's.

[Ian]

We know the band already, but just in case, just for this, just for the hell of it. Bob Dylan, Bob Britt, Doug Lancio, Donnie Haron, Jerry Pentecost, and Mr. Tony Garnier on the base for, like we were saying, potentially, maybe the very end of the Rough and Rowdy Ways tour. I think we're gonna focus primarily on the Crown Theater show that we shared from Fayetteville, North Carolina. We do also need to touch here and there on that night. Two in Austin, if for no other reason than the presence of one Jimmy Vaughn on guitar, which provides a very different sound and feeling to the show. But in general, I mean, I don't know about you guys. I've listened to several of these different shows throughout this. It's a pretty. I feel like this is a very different. This might be the most different version of the Rough and Rowdy Ways tour. Even as. Even as it has been virtually the same exact set list right back to the very fucking beginning. I feel like he's really kind of gone pretty far off the map compared to where he was this time last year, for instance, or the 21 or 22 legs.

[Steve]

Yeah. If Bob ever wanted to put out a live record of the Rough and Roddy Ways tour, it feels like he would do it from this last leg. Because the shows, I think were just consistently really strong. He was still really tinkering with arrangements in this period. And we'll talk about that as we get into the show. It's interesting because I think if you're deep in the Dillon community, I think that there's already been a narrative that has formed about this last leg, that the most crucial shows are the shows that he did in Nashville at the Brooklyn bowl. Because it was a very small venue. I believe it was like 1200 people. Those shows are very well regarded. And then there are the concluding shows. In Austin, he did a two show run. You mentioned the tour concluding show, that he did a bunch of songs with Jimmy Vaughn as a guest guitar player, which really makes that show unique. One reason why I was pushing for us to do Fayetteville was that I feel like this show is in danger of being overlooked in the narratives that people want to talk about with this tour. Where, look, the Nashville shows are great. I think the reason why Nashville and Austin have risen to the top in terms of shows that people talk about is that they're very well performed and also that they're very well recorded. And that they're well recorded in the sense that they sound very clean. I gotta say, this Fayetteville show is very close to my heart. And that it's no disrespect to the other shows that are so wonderful from this tour, but it reminds me of when we did 36 from the vault and we talked about the Grateful Dead. And there's this conversation that goes on with bootleg recordings where you talk about soundboards versus audience recordings. And look, these are all audience recordings that we're talking about in Nashville, Austin, wherever. But a show that sounds cleaner, where it's recorded very close to the stage. You just hear the band, you don't hear the crowd as much, you don't hear the room as much versus what you get in this Fayetteville recording, where it's very roomy sounding and the roominess gives it this reverb, like, effect. And you can really hear the crowd. I mean, this Fayetteville crowd is very excited. They're very vocal. I mean, that's one of the things I love about this show. I love the roominess of this recording. I love that kind of reverb type quality that you get because it's a bigger room, maybe the tapers a little farther back. And look, we've had, like, a conversation in our Patreon about, like, different shows from this leg of the tour. And it's great to have people debate, like, which shows they like the most. And I'm not even saying that this Fayetteville show is the best. Although I will say one of the reasons why I was stumping for this show is that there's two performances in particular that I think are definitive for me personally. Like, two songs from Rough and Ready Ways that I think are the best versions I've ever heard of the songs. Like, I'm. I'm totally ready to make that case. But just the way this tape sounds, for me, it's like the best combination of, like, I think the fidelity and the clarity being really strong. But also you get a sense of the room. You feel the spaciousness of it. The drums sound a little more echoey, which for me is a positive. And even if Bob's vocals aren't totally clear, you still get the soulfulness of his vocals that come through so strong. I don't know. I love this tape so much. No matter how you feel, I think you could pull any tape from this leg of the tour. It just shows, like, how much of a role he was on and how still locked in he was into these songs. Even, like, I think he did, like, 200 shows going back. Like, the first date of the Rough and Ready Ways tour, Nov. 2, 2021, in Milwaukee so two and a half years. It's just amazing that he was still so engaged in playing these songs and finding new ways into them. It's such an unprecedented achievement, I think, for certainly an art of his, artists of his stature, but, like, really for anyone, Anyone doing something like this.

[Ian]

Yeah, I think it's. It's going to be, honestly, like. And it's silly for me to even be saying this because Lord knows the last couple years of Bob Dylan live shows have been breathlessly covered, really, by us as much as anyone. Shout out Ray, and everyone as well, doing the work. But getting here to the end of this, I almost feel like it's going to take some time before we can really kind of fully understand the magnitude of what he accomplished over the last couple years. And that I acknowledge that that sounds silly, especially because we've lamented the fact that it's almost the same fucking set list every single night. But like you were saying, Steven, just the way that he just kind of finds new ways in and in and into all of these different songs. So many levels, like Layers of an Onion. It's unfathomable, really. And the sheer volume of performances at this age, at this point, with this material, like, I still can barely even wrap my head around the fact that this fucking guy is 82 going on 83 years old, and he's going out every single night across the country, across the world, and playing almost two hours of like exclusively brand new material or old songs that sound nothing fucking like what the audience might expect. It's like, you know, that's understood at this point. That's table stakes for a late era Bob show. But this achievement is only going to take on even greater significance as we maybe close the book on this chapter of things and move forward into whatever it is that lies beyond the Rough and Rowdy Ways tour at this point. But yeah, the Fayetteville show, I think is fantastic. And I would also just stump for it as well on the basis that, like you were saying, I think the Nashville show is probably, I think, universally regarded as like, the show of the shows on this run. There's also the Charlotte show from St. Patrick's Day, when he played the roving blade and he was in his little green shirt. There's a couple big highlight headline performances from this run and then the Austin ones as well, or the second night in Austin in particular, which, like I said, we'll touch on a little bit here and there. But what I kind of love about this show is how not like, pedestrian is the Wrong way to describe it, but it's kind of just like it's another show in the middle of the fucking thing. It's the night after the Charlotte St. Patrick's Day show, actually. And even as forgettable or as unremarkable as Fayetteville, North Carolina, might be for Bob Dylan, it's just such a. To me, it's a brilliant document of this tour and really kind of illustrates, I think, in a very clear way how much work has gone into this shit and how far beyond even 2021, 2022 versions of these shows he is at this point. Because I'm gonna be interested to hear what songs you feel like these are the definitive versions of. But to me, there is one in particular, I think that is, like, just knocks the socks off of basically any other version of this song that I've heard from the Rough and Rowdy Ways tour. But I guess we'll get there when we get there. Should we have a chat about it?

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Bob]

Yes.

[Ian]

Well, we can dispatch with Watchtower. Watch right away.

[Evan]

There must be some way outta here. Turn the joker to the thing.

[Ian]

Still no. This might be the longest period of time the man has gone without playing. All along the Watchtower.

[Steve]

I miss Watchtower.

[Ian]

Yeah, me too.

[Steve]

How exciting would it be to see a live Watchtower at this point? You know, like we. We. We were taking it for granted for the longest time.

[Ian]

That's what we get for it. Let's. Let's spirit bomb Watchtower. Let's all. Let's all believe in it and. And hope to see it. Show up on these big, beautiful festival stages in a couple months down the road. Pretty good stuff.

[Bob]

Weather.

[Ian]

Oh, the weather. How could I forget?

[Bob]

This is a very recent show, so it's relatively easy to find out.

[Ian]

Easy to get.

[Bob]

I'm saying 67 as a high and 47 as a low in Fayetteville.

[Steve]

Beautiful.

[Bob]

That's. That's it.

[Ian]

Okay. North Carolina in March seems not too bad, right? Probably one of the better times to be in North Carolina. If you got to be in North Carolina.

[Bob]

Sounds okay to me. None of those temperatures are too cold.

[Ian]

Or too hot or too hot.

[Steve]

It's always great to be in North Carolina. I love. I love North Carolina.

[Ian]

I've never actually been in North Carolina.

[Bob]

Way down in the hill.

[Ian]

I'm being rude.

[Bob]

Live my path.

[Steve]

Wait, yeah, like you're being a little. Like. North Carolina is a beautiful state.

[Ian]

You're right. I should be nice. It's Florida that I want to keep shitting on, but North Carolina has done Nothing wrong to me.

[Steve]

I mean, go to Asheville, then try to affect your little, like, California little snobbery there. You'd be like, why am I living in this big California? I should be living in Asheville, North Carolina, one of the most beautiful towns areas ever. Like, I love Asheville, North Carolina.

[Ian]

I would like to visit. I know it's. It's supposed to be a great, you know, just hang, chill college town.

[Steve]

You're in the mountains and it's just trees everywhere. It's beautiful. The oxygen is like. Fills your lungs with life and beauty. You would love it. And you'd be ashamed at your little dismissiveness that's just now.

[Ian]

Thank you for holding me accountable. I apologize to all residents that Tar Heel stayed here. Well, what's the. Pretty good stuff here, folks?

[Steve]

I want to hear what you guys say first.

[Ian]

The harp. We have, you know, I think come back to Bob's harp playing, you know, whenever it makes an appearance on these rough and running ways shows. And, you know, I remember when we saw him in Milwaukee, Steven, you know, when he. When he whipped out the harp there at the end on every grain of sand. It was, you know, kind of a moment of transcendence that evening. And Lord knows he does that again here tonight. Or not tonight, but this night in Fayetteville. But he also. He's also just integrating it into other songs throughout the whole set. To be alone with you in particular has a beautiful bit of harp work in it. And then to me, this is. I'll blow my load here right off the bat. But I've made up my mind that he manages at this show with this. It. It's utterly transformed with the way that he plays the harp on it. And that in particular is. I've been through this before, but proposed to my wife quoting it, and it's ingrained in our fucking rings. That song is like, so eternally part of my life and my world. And what has always been a little frustrating to me about the Rough and Rodney Wise tour is as great as so much of this other shit has been. And as brilliant as so many of these other interpretations have been, I've never felt like he has really cracked. I made up my mind to give myself to you the way that I want him to or the way that I know he could.

[Bob]

I know what you mean, because I don't know. I do think it's possible that you haven't seen that, but I know that I've seen it. And maybe it was a show you weren't at, but I know what you're talking about. It's a little bit. Sometimes not. You want it to be a little bit more like the record and can't help it because it's just so, like, perfect.

[Ian]

There's this ghostly like. Like beauty and I don't know, wisp, like wispiness, smokiness. To the record version.

[Bob]

It has those background that, like kind of humming.

[Ian]

Yeah. The cooing, oohing backing vocals.

[Bob]

Yeah.

[Ian]

And the Blake Mills guitar, obviously. You know, it's. And that kind of stuff is just. He's not there on the live shows and you know, he does some interesting stuff in other versions also, but it always just feels a little kind of like kludgy. Like he's kind of tromping along through this song. That should be like, you know, light as a breeze to me. You know, this is. You know, obviously everyone has their own experience with this, but I don't know, man. Like, this version, almost entirely drained of music. Like, hardly anyone in the band is even playing on this song. But Bob is just taking himself through it on the piano with a beautiful vocal and that harp. It's like, this is it. This to me is what I've been waiting for out of this song in particular. And this is the song for me on this entire fucking record, this entire show. So I was just over. Over the moon to get this from him on this. On this.

[Evan]

Sing to the sound of. I thought it all through I made up my mind to give myself to you But I saw the first.

[Steve]

Evan.

[Bob]

I'm going to say every grain of sand. I think this. Every grain of sand is amazing. I think that it somehow the guitar just has this like this quality to it that I always hope that this song has. And I don't know what is different, if anything's different. I just know that listening to this version, it feels so perfectly weightless and balanced. It doesn't have maybe the most gravity gravitas as this song has ever had. Doesn't really need that. It kind of has something different. It just feels completely effortless and ethereal while also being like kind of very grounded and earthy. It's just perfect.

[Ian]

Yeah, the. The grand of sand is really fantastic. The harp work again, you know, as we've said, incredible. I think the. The fact that this one is kind of led with a guitar, the elect.

[Bob]

It reminds me of the original.

[Ian]

The original, exactly. There's. There's some like real kind of like return type shit to some of these. These songs on here. And Graham Sanders may be the perfect example of that. It just. It. It. You know, Bob traditionally or recently has been taking the lead on the piano on this song, you know, for the last couple years. But letting, like, him just shutting the piano down for the most part and letting that guitar.

[Bob]

That's what it is. It's just. It's really being led by the guitar, I guess. I kind of. It's so obvious. But, yeah, that. It's just that it's not being plunked along on the piano.

[Ian]

As much as we love the plonking.

[Bob]

You know, I love the plonking.

[Ian]

We love the plonking.

[Bob]

Yeah. It's. It. It just. All it needs is that gentle chiming guitar floating behind.

[Evan]

These. My feet cloud Everybody was within me Reaching out somewhere Toiling in the danger in the morals of despair I don't have the incognition to look back on any mistake Like Canaan I'll behold this.

[Ian]

Chain.

[Evan]

I remember that I must pray in the fury of the moment I can see the master's hand and I believe the trembles.

[Ian]

And that's really kind of the story of this set to me. And this. This leg in general is like, how much. How much can he drain these songs of the music itself? Like. Like, what can he cut and strip away and just, you know, kick to the curb and leave sitting there and still have these songs be. These songs, still have the essence of them, the truth, you know, the emotional reality come across. And I think when you're Bob Dylan.

[Bob]

The answer is you can train fucking almost.

[Ian]

Almost everything. Exactly. But that's been the story of the Rough and Running Ways tour from the beginning, which the, you know, these shows started with these weird set lists or different set lists at least. And, you know, so many different versions of Key West. He was. Was changing, you know, minute by minute, it seemed like sometimes. And at this point, he's just like. There's. He's kind of. These songs have fully blossomed and kind of learned to breathe on their own. With hardly any sort of work or input from any of the musicians at all. It's. It's kind of like a magic trick.

[Steve]

I agree 1000% about every grain of sand. Beautiful version. Love the guitar. Two great harmonica solos, one in the middle and one at the end. You know, you bring up the Milwaukee show, we were like, you know, dehydrated people in the desert. Like, we just wanted any harmonica. And he played a little at the end, and it was fine. But this is like Dylan playing, like, actual harp and just laying his heart out. There so beautiful I made my. I made up my mind to give myself to you that is one of the definitive versions that I mentioned earlier. This song, it is so beautifully played. The harp at the beginning. God damn, it's so beautiful. Dylan's vocal is so outstanding. The. The part on the chorus where he sings. I don't think that anyone ever. What does he say? I don't think that anyone ever has ever knew.

[Bob]

Yeah, yeah.

[Steve]

When he sings that line on the first chorus, he sings that line and someone from the audience yells. I think they yell what? Like, they yell what? Because they're just, like, so blown away. This is my interpretation of their what? That they're so blown away by, like, how beautiful this sounds. And to me, like, that encapsulates, like, what I love about this show. Because the audience is very vocal, but they're vocal in a very supportive and respectful and excited way. It's not like early in the tour, those Florida shows where it seemed like you had, like, a lot of clueless old people did, weren't really in line with what Dylan was doing. Maybe they expected the greatest hit set in this room. You feel like people are there because they know what's up and they are appreciating what's going on. And that circles back to what I was saying earlier about being able to hear the room. I think that this show has such a great vibe to it. Not only is it a great performance, but it's a great vibe throughout. And I think that elevates it in my mind along with just the great performances going on. This song.

[Bob]

What I just heard this.

[Steve]

It's so good. I also love. At the beginning of the song, someone yells, welcome to Fville.

[Bob]

Yeah.

[Steve]

Someone laughs. And I almost. I know it's not Bob laughing. It sounds like it could be a Bob Dylan laugh, but I think it's just someone. It's the taper. Someone near the taper laughing at someone laughing at someone saying, welcome to Fayetteville. But it's such a great example of, like, you know, you have chompers at shows that are annoying. But, like, to me, like, the audience, you know, exhortations that you hear on this tape are so warm and great. Like, they're not annoying. Like, I. I just love hearing the audience so much.

[Ian]

I'm with you.

[Steve]

So the. I made up my mind. I think it's my favorite version of the song that I've ever heard. Certainly, like, live. I. I love the version so much. The other one for me is Key West. I think this Key west interesting is so great. And the thing about this song for me is that it's very hard to perform, I think live. There's so many versions of this song that I think meander that I don't know. If you don't nail this song, it can feel a little tiresome. Yeah, but there's something about this version. It feels a little faster than usual. I think that what. What Jerry Pentecost is doing, it's very subtle. He's basically giving this song a heartbeat and a frame and a driving force that moves it forward that I think makes it feel like it's not a 10 minute song every time. I've listened to this several times and it just moves so well. And the quality of the recording again, like the roominess of it, the sound of the piano, the sound of Bob's voice, the sound of the guitars, it has a propulsion to it that I feel like Key west doesn't always have. And I just feel like this is like one of the best Key West I've ever heard. I. And I guess I'll call it definitive. I said definitive at the beginning. I'll hold to that. Someone can go into the Patreon and tell me that there's a better Key west than this one, but this is definitely my favorite that I've ever heard. I. I just think this Key west just nails it so hard.

[Evan]

Born on the wrong side of the road tribe Just like Ginsburg and Koso and Cadillac Like Lou J. Thing to do and I'll stick it with you through and through on the Buddha I got both my feet planted spare on the ground.

[Steve]

High yeah, I really get the credit to. To Pentecost along with Dylan. His vocal is on point, but I just think what Pentecost does on this song as well as, you know, like, I made my mind up elsewhere. It's such a subtle thing that he's doing. Like, it's nothing flashy. You can't like say, oh, it's some great virtuosic performance of rhythm or anything, but I just feel like the feel of it is so perfect. I just love it so much. And I'm just going to say right now, he's my early Roman king.

[Ian]

I think already.

[Steve]

I think, yeah. I'll just say right now his feel on this show, I think is so great.

[Bob]

Yeah, it's so. I love really is just. There's not a lot there. And it is what you were just saying, I guess, you know, it feels it. It is skeletal, but it does not ever feel that way. Because you have Bob Dylan in the center, and he fills up that space. It's. I don't know that there's many performers alive who can do that the way that he does. People can do minimal accompaniment and have it feel really great, but it feels like they. There's an awareness that for Bob Dylan right now, in this moment with this show, this set, there's no other way to do it. Like, that's the. That really is. They've kind of refined it and landed in this place where it feels like it just exists in this very pure form.

[Ian]

Yeah. Yeah. Cosine on Pentecost, definitely. I mean, the players, incredible. We love the band, folks. Key west is good here. I want to go back and listen to. I should have done it before we hopped on mic, but to me. And this might be like, what do they call it? Mandela effect type shit. But I feel like there were a couple versions on the first leg in 21 where Donnie Heron was doing the accordion on Key West. And it just happened a couple times, I think, because that is not that there aren't a ton of versions out there that sound like that. And they kind of came and went, and I remember kind of going back and forth with some people when that happened. But, like, I feel like there is some perfect version of Key West. To me, that is one of those accordion versions from early, early on. I haven't listened to it in years at this point, so I gotta go back and do a little digging myself at this.

[Evan]

I got both my feet landed sway on the ground Got my right hand high with a thumb down Such as life Such as happiness Hibiscus flowers they grew everywhere here if you wear one, put it behind your ear down on the bottom Way down in Key West Key west is the place to be if you're looking for immortality Stay on the road Follow the highway side.

[Bob]

Key west.

[Evan]

If you lost your mind you'll find it there QSD on the horizon line.

[Steve]

My take on that song is that, like, there's so many live versions of it where it doesn't hit for me. But, like, when it does, I'm like, this is, like, one of the best Bob Dylan songs ever, you know? But I feel like the batting average for it is not very high.

[Ian]

Yeah, it's lower than a lot of the other. A lot of the other songs.

[Steve]

But, like, when it hits, it's like a grand slam out of the park. And for me. And if it's just me, that's fine, but, like, for me, this version is a grand slam out of the park.

[Ian]

Sure. We got to talk about the COVID too. I feel like the last couple, last several years of the Rough Row anyways, tours have been in large part defined by the covers that Bob has been playing. You know, the summer 22 leg, I think, is Friend of the Devil to me. The spring 23 leg is truckin. And I guess, you know, several Grateful Dead or several additional Grateful Dead covers, I should say. Cause Friend of the Devil, obviously the Dead as well. But Truckin is really the one that sticks out to me this time. Almost every night. Not every night, but almost every night, it has been Big river by Johnny Cash. What do we think of Big River?

[Bob]

Oh, it's great.

[Ian]

It's great. All right. Easy as that.

[Bob]

Yeah. Bob Dylan, in this time in place, doing Big river by Johnny Cash as kind of a spectral piano rendition of. What are you gonna. You think? I'm not gonna like that.

[Ian]

What I love about it is. I don't know if you guys remember this, but I saw this on Twitter and so I had to pull it out and go back to it myself. And sure enough, there it is. Big river is one of the songs in the Philosophy of Modern Song that he wrote about.

[Bob]

Yes.

[Ian]

And he actually. He literally writes in. You know, it's like it's maybe 300 words, this entire thing. There's barely anything to it. But one of the whole paragraphs Bob himself literally writes. The key element to this song is the chain gang thump of the acoustic rhythm guitar. You can't really cover this song properly. Leaving that behind. What is.

[Bob]

What, what.

[Ian]

What does he absolutely leave behind in every single version of Big river that he's been playing on this tour? The chain gang thump, the acoustic rhythm guitar. It's basically just him in the piano river.

[Evan]

And I'm on some here until I die When I met accidentally.

[Bob]

Of every.

[Evan]

Time I could go so drown Then I heard my dream Went back down the street of New G and I followed you.

[Bob]

He'S saying you can't.

[Ian]

Oh, right. I can do it, but you can't do it.

[Bob]

He's saying you can't do it properly without that.

[Ian]

Good point. Yeah, I love it. I think it's fantastic. And this again, speaks to this quality or this project of draining the music from the. You know, from the music itself. Because Big river is such a stomping, rollicking, you know, rapidly running type song. You could say river esque in one way when you listen to, you know, the original Johnny versions. And that's just the complete antithesis of what Bob is doing here, which is so. There's barely anything to it. It's like Bob and a piano and I think Tony on the bass, and that might be it. It's. There's like a. There's almost kind of a sinister quality to it, I think, that I'm picking up on.

[Bob]

Well, toward the end, it kind of has this kind of. Yeah, Disney villain spunkiness that sort of creeps in.

[Ian]

But not even like Disney villain is like. I feel like, you know, my own version of you is Disney villain. This is like. This actually feels. I get a little man of the long black coat, I think, with this.

[Bob]

Yeah. I mean, I just. That's, for lack of a better term, just in terms of descriptors. Yeah, that kind of sultry, spooky thing.

[Ian]

Sure.

[Steve]

Does anyone have an oh Mercy in this show?

[Ian]

Well, so I did. Now might be the right time to talk about the Austin show, oh Mercy, which we'll post along with this show. You know, we sent out the Fayetteville show last week so everyone could listen to in advance of the episode. But we'll make sure to have the Austin show up along with this episode here in a couple days. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, it's so Nighttune. Austin, right? Jimmy Vaughn, Stevie Ray Vaughn's brother. Is that right? Can you confirm that for me, Steven? Okay.

[Steve]

It's his older brother.

[Ian]

Older brother comes out, and I believe he replaced Doug Lancio on from, I think, track eight, I think, on through the rest of the set. Lancio just walked off the stage and Jimmy Vaughn was filling in for him. And I don't know. It's a fun listen. To me, the tape sounds great, and Bob's in high spirits. Everyone's having a great time, clearly. But there is a. There's just a. To me, there's a fundamental mismatch between that kind of, you know, it's a very hot dogging, Rootin Tootin, you know, electric guitar, showboating kind of element of music making that is, again, like I said, fun to listen to. And certainly after listening to a zillion fucking tapes of all these rough and runny ways shows over the last couple years, it's great to. Or it's novel, I should say, to hear these songs presented in a relatively radically new manner. But I don't. I'm glad there's only the one version. It's not for me, is what I would say. I don't know how you guys felt about it.

[Evan]

You got to serve somebody Somebody. But it might be. It might be the Lord. You got to serve somebody.

[Steve]

So you're bringing oh Mercy from a different show. You're doing like the Austin.

[Bob]

That's right, Imported oh Mercy.

[Ian]

Because I didn't have an oh Mercy from Fayetteville. It's all good. It's all good music to me.

[Steve]

I like the idea of like Lancio checking out early. Did you, like, get on a plane and just like leave?

[Ian]

It's like, yeah, you just went home. Yeah, exactly.

[Steve]

You know, like, yeah, you don't need me anymore on this.

[Ian]

Get home to the wife.

[Steve]

Yeah, I mean, I don't, you know, like, when people talk about, like Austin being like the pinnacle of this tour, I'm kind of with you on that a little bit. Like, it is like a little weird that Vaughn came in on the last show. He is more of a traditional blues guitar player.

[Ian]

Yes.

[Steve]

And he hasn't been integrated into what Bob's doing. So it's a little strange. I mean, I don't know. I don't know if I would oh Mercy it necessarily, but it is an interesting counterpoint to the rest of the tour and certainly like the rest of this leg.

[Ian]

I mean, it's good. It is well performed. Right. And certainly the fact that is just coming in as a pinch hitter and presumably has virtually no rehearsal time or experience with the band before he walks on stage that night. Set all that aside. It's fantastic with all that given. But there's, I think hearing that kind of made the whole Rough and Rowdy Ways tour project kind of crystallize in my mind. Because we've talked about this several times, right? Like, why has this been the Rough and Rowdy Ways tour and every other tour has just been the Neverending Tour or an unnamed tour? Because we know Bob is kind of hot and cold about the Neverending Tour branding in the first place. And so hearing, to me, hearing this other traditional, more rock oriented, blues oriented approach to this music, that's just. That isn't the Rough and Rowdy Ways tour. To me, that's just something else. A different kind of sound, a different project. And obviously, you know, the roots of this sound are clear and present there in the 2017, 2018, 2019 iterations of the Neverending Tour band. You know, it's almost all the same players, almost, you know, not all of them, but I think there's just like a. It almost feels like they've been Bob and the crew on this tour. On the Rough and Riding Ways tour. The last several years have been like playing. Playing roles, like playing versions of themselves playing part. And Jimmy Vaughn showing up all of a sudden, kind of like that illusion was shattered for me. And there are fun moments, certainly on that tape, but it's. I don't know, this music in particular, I think I need it to kind of exist in this smoky other world that is beyond the concerns of mere mortals.

[Steve]

So this is like the control group then, for this Fayetteville tape?

[Ian]

That's right. Exactly what you're saying.

[Steve]

I like that. Yeah. Yeah. It's a. It's an interesting way to end the tour because.

[Ian]

Yeah, like.

[Steve]

Like you're saying it's like, not totally of a piece of, like, what they were doing. It's a departure. And again, Lancio, he just got early vacation.

[Ian]

You got the boot. Get out of here, Doug.

[Steve]

So I don't know how we want to feel about that.

[Ian]

Do you have oh Mercy? Does anyone have oh Mercy from Fayetteville?

[Bob]

Not particularly, no.

[Ian]

Yeah, no, I think it's all. I think it's all good stuff.

[Steve]

I was gonna say, you know, to. If we can go to Budokan moment. I was actually listening to the Milwaukee shows that I. I went to one with Rob and I went to one with you, Ian, just as a point of comparison, you know, because that was October of 2023. Not that long ago, really.

[Ian]

Scant few months, but it feels like.

[Steve]

A long time ago, certainly in rough and ready ways. Time.

[Ian]

Yeah.

[Steve]

And talking about Budokan Moment, like the Got to Serve somebody.

[Ian]

Yes, yes.

[Steve]

Is dramatically overhauled. I mean, we're not even going to talk about how it's changed from the. The record or how it's been historically performed. When he played it in Milwaukee, it was like this rock song. It was like one of the big rock moments of the show. And here it's like turned down and it rocks in a different kind of way. It's like this barrel house piano type version of it, as opposed to, like, more of like an electric guitar type rave up that he was playing in Milwaukee and, you know, playing in that. On that leg of the tour. So, like, for me, like, the guy to serve somebody just jumps out as a total Buddha moment.

[Ian]

Absolutely.

[Steve]

I was like. And he. You know, and I mean, I think he was playing this song differently, like, throughout the tour. I mean, it's just like. It's another example of, like, how he was changing songs. Like my own version of you. There's another song all over the place. All over the place that he was, like, reworking, like, throughout this leg of the tour. So, like, to compare it to, like, when I saw it Live Myself in Milwaukee, well, it's different from that, but it's different, like, from different nights on this leg. So, like, those two songs in particular jump out to me as Budokan moments.

[Ian]

Totally, yeah. Serve Somebody is. Is a clear candidate to me. And honestly, I'd love this. I love this take on it, which to me feels like we were talking about with every grain of sand a few minutes ago. Feels a little more of a piece, a little more consistent with the way the song sounded originally 40 fucking years ago. I get a little bit of that with this Serve Somebody too. Not that it sounds anything like, you know, what they were doing in mushroom souls in 1979, but the feeling, the kind of quieter, smoother, more serious kind of approach to it comes through so much more clearly on this take than, like, you were saying, that Rave Up Fireworks guitar moment on the fall 23 version, which is really what he had been doing for years, that existed, I think, back on some of the 2019 tapes that we've talked about, which is fun. It's fun to hear once in a while. But to me, it had kind of gotten a little long in the tooth and felt a little like the moment when people were coming out and, like, here we are, we're gonna play the guitar all of a sudden. This one is, like, totally understated, doesn't call attention to itself, just exists clearly and cleanly, I think, within the context of everything else that's going on in the show at this point. It's beautiful. We also got a shout out for Budokan Moment. Masterpiece.

[Steve]

Oh.

[Ian]

Sounds like it is a totally different song, I should say. Yes, Is. Is. Is Istanbul, not Constantinople? If anyone is familiar with that little ditty from, fucking, what, 1937 or something.

[Evan]

Istanbul was Constantinople. Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople Been a long time gone Ol Constantinople still its Turkish delight On a moon at night every gallon Constantinople lives in Istanbul not Constantinople so with you but they in Constantinople she'll be waiting in Istanbul Then.

[Bob]

Remade famous by they Might Be Giants.

[Ian]

That's right. Excuse me. 1953. A novelty song from 1953. Lyrics by Jimmy Kennedy and music by Nat Simon, sung by the Four Lads, everyone's favorite Canadian singing quartet. The Four Lads.

[Bob]

The Four Lads.

[Ian]

The Four Lads.

[Bob]

The Four Lads.

[Ian]

Yeah, it's just a. To. It's a total. This song is. It's a completely different song. This is 100% a different song that bears zero relation to any version of Masterpiece that Bob has ever played before this leg of the tour. And he just grafted the words of.

[Bob]

When I Works great.

[Ian]

It's fantastic. I love it.

[Bob]

I'm really, really glad that this happened because I, I think I speak for all of us when I say that if it hadn't, we would be kind of woof. Like, I, I. It's a lot to hear this song again.

[Ian]

The same kind of masterpiece and River Flow. There's only so many times you can fucking hear those ones as great as they are. You know, the versions that he's been playing for the last couple years. But this take on it is, is a delight.

[Bob]

Yeah, it's so, it's really fun and, and just to hear the song with, like, this kind of slinky, like, Felix the Cat vibe. It's very fun and it's fantastic.

[Steve]

Yeah, yeah. This is the, you know, spring 2024 version. It's always going to be known as that.

[Ian]

That's right.

[Steve]

Any. If you drop this live masterpiece onto your Bob Dylan playlist, people in the know are going to know, oh, yeah, spring 2024, right there.

[Ian]

What is the thought process? What, like, what is. What is happening? Is Bob just like. Is he sitting on the bus one day with everyone and he just dials up Istanbul, Not Constantinople on YouTube and is like, hey, hey, fellas, let's play this one tonight. But I'm just gonna sing when I paint my masterpiece on top of it.

[Steve]

Maybe Pentecost was like playing his CD of They Might Be Giants Flood and Bob. Yeah, hey, man, what was that?

[Bob]

I think he's played that. I'm pretty sure he's actually played the they Might Be Giants version on theme time.

[Ian]

On theme time.

[Bob]

I'm not mistaken. I know he's played they Might Be Giants at some point on Theme Time. And it could have been in this case.

[Steve]

It's like Pentecost. Put on Pentecost. Put on Particle Man. I want to hear Particle man next. Oh, man, jam that out.

[Bob]

I want to hear Serve Somebody in the form of Particle Man.

[Ian]

You know, you are totally right about this, actually. I just googled Bob Dylan They Might Be Giants. And there is a they Might Be Giants wiki page that is maintained and there's an entry devoted to this in particular. On January 10, 2007, Bob Dylan introduced the song Bangs on his XM Radio show theme Time Radio Hour, and said, we'll have to look that one up. He said the following. Bob said the following about they Might Be Giants. While we're on the subject of Bangs, here's a couple of guys out of Massachusetts who took their band name from a George C. Scott movie. They had a hard time getting a record deal, so they set up a thing called Dial a Song. You would dial it, and it would play a song in their phone machine. They changed it every single day for a couple years. Here's one they wrote about the fringe you find on somebody's forehead. Here's they Might Be Giants with their song Bangs. Bangs above your eyes, your hair hangs.

[Bob]

Blew my mind, your royal flyness.

[Ian]

I give you them.

[Bob]

Bangs to drape.

[Ian]

Across your forehead to swing concordant angles as you incline your head.

[Bob]

Good song. I like bangs.

[Ian]

I think this is a new segment. Does Bob Dylan like or no X band? We did this with Fish last time. We're doing it with they Might Be Giants this time. Who. Who's to say who might be next time?

[Steve]

I like the idea that Dylan would be like, I've never heard a Fish song, but I do know, like, several. They Might Be Giants.

[Bob]

That's a really random they Might Be Giant song to know.

[Ian]

I don't know that I've ever even heard Bangs.

[Steve]

I just googled it. Like, that's like, early aughts. They might be.

[Bob]

I know it, but.

[Steve]

So it's not just like, oh, it's on flood, or you know, like, one of the early records.

[Bob]

No, I know it from a compilation which had, like, like, all their stuff from, like, the 90s to the mid 2000s. So bangs.

[Steve]

Early 2000s, I guess it's like, hey, Bob, do you want to play Particle man your show? No, that's too obvious. Let's play bangs. Let's do a deep cut.

[Bob]

It might have been a hairdo episode, I'd imagine.

[Steve]

I think Bob wanted to flex. He wanted to flex his they Might Be Giants knowledge, though. You want to be like, I don't want people to think I'm just like a Johnny come lately with. Yeah, they Might Be Giants. I'm gonna. I'm gonna prove that I go deep into the catalog and drop a bangs reference for the heads out there.

[Ian]

He's a real head.

[Steve]

Yeah.

[Ian]

Love it. Theme time radio hour 2007. It is hair. Yes. The theme from this episode is literally hair. You're right.

[Bob]

A lot of hair songs.

[Ian]

There's some Rapunzel. Rapunzel on here. There's Dolly Parton, There's Sally. Let your bangs hang down, boy.

[Steve]

Bob talk.

[Ian]

Bob talk. A little bit of Bob talk. It's a little talkative here.

[Steve]

So, like, when he's introducing the band, I Was trying to make out what he says. Did he say. Did a good job, don't you think? Is that what he says?

[Ian]

I think so.

[Steve]

Before he introduces the band. That's what it sounds like.

[Ian]

Well, he says.

[Evan]

Pentecost ran on the drum.

[Ian]

He says these are hard songs to play.

[Bob]

He's done. That's a stock thing. He said.

[Ian]

Is that a stock thing?

[Bob]

Yeah, he's like, these are nice. These are hard songs to play. This is the band. Yeah, he does that.

[Ian]

Yeah. He says it's harder songs to play. The band plays them pretty well. Don't you think?

[Bob]

Don't you think? Yeah, that's good.

[Ian]

I like that. He's not doing, you know, he's not doing the spring 23 jokes about Bob Britt being on Columbo or whatever. But I'll take this for late era Bob talk.

[Steve]

Yeah, I would totally take a. These are songs that are hard to play, don't you think? We didn't get that much when we saw him. I would have taken.

[Ian]

That would have taken like. He was doing a lot of thank yous when we saw him, wasn't he?

[Steve]

Yeah, a lot of thank yous.

[Ian]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Steve]

Yeah. Very appreciative.

[Ian]

You're welcome, Mom.

[Steve]

But he wasn't complimenting the band on how these songs were hard to play.

[Ian]

How great they sounded.

[Steve]

That would have been nice bootleg title.

[Ian]

I contain multitudes of versions of these songs.

[Steve]

Oh, oh, that rolls off the top.

[Ian]

How about that? That's a. That's a snappy one, right?

[Steve]

Just rolls off. Catchy.

[Ian]

I've also got. I've painted my masterpiece on the note. On the theme of this potentially being the end of the Rough and Rowdy Ways tour.

[Bob]

I've got a pretty obvious one.

[Ian]

Let me guess. Gotta serve somebody in Fayetteville, North Carolina.

[Bob]

No, no, it's Crossing the Big River.

[Ian]

Oh, oh, oh. That's actually good.

[Bob]

It is good. I have to say.

[Ian]

Bravo. Crossing the Big Rubicon.

[Bob]

That's bad. But it's probably better, actually.

[Ian]

I think that's better. Yeah, exactly.

[Steve]

I've got. I've made up my mind to end the Rough and Ready Ways tour.

[Ian]

Yes.

[Bob]

Yeah.

[Steve]

That would have been better for the Austin one. Rackham and I have false. False Fayetteville Prophet.

[Bob]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Steve]

And then crossing the Crown Theater.

[Ian]

Crossing the Crown Theater. Oh, right. Because it was at the Crown Theater.

[Steve]

It's at the Crown Theater.

[Ian]

How could I forget the famous Crown Theater in Fayetteville, North Carolina?

[Steve]

But those are my. But, yeah, I think I've made up My mind to end the Rough and Ready Ways tour. A lot of text on that cover, but that.

[Ian]

The more. The more words, the better, as far as I'm concerned.

[Steve]

Early Roman King.

[Ian]

Well, you already. You already laid it at the feet of Jerry. I'm gonna. I'm gonna break my own rule here. I don't typically like to give Early Roman King to bomb himself, but I'm. I'm giving it to Bob. I mean, listen to the man here. His voice, I think, is an absolute. Like, his voice. We say it time and again, but it just. He sounds incredible. Like, I'm. I feel like he's getting better and better as a singer with every show that goes along on this tour. And I think the harp work that he was able to integrate into the show, you put it perfectly, Steven. It feels like he's actually just playing the harmonica, you know, kind of the way that he would in 1994 or something. Instead of just waiting for this one moment. Show stopping show closing moment. It's integrated into the whole arsenal of what's going on here for the first time in what feels like to me a very long time. So, Bob, good on you, brother.

[Bob]

I agree. I mean, just listen to that. Who's playing guitar, though, on every grain of sand. That's Lancio.

[Ian]

That would be. Yeah. I don't know. Actually, I think that would be Brit. To be honest, I can't say I know for certain.

[Bob]

Well, I do just want to shout that out because I really think that that makes that version as good as I said I thought it was.

[Ian]

Sure. I will not give the Early Roman King to Jimmy Vaughn. Sorry, Jimmy.

[Steve]

No Jimmy.

[Bob]

What's his deal? Don't say that. You're not going to give it to him. You can just.

[Ian]

I'm withholding.

[Bob]

We don't say the. When we give it out this. I'm not giving it to all the other ones, you know. But I guess you've got a beef.

[Ian]

I assume you know what his deal is, Steven.

[Steve]

Yeah. Fabulous Thunderbirds, man.

[Ian]

Okay. Yeah. Fabulous.

[Steve]

Ain't that tough enough? Damn. Damn.

[Ian]

Oh, yeah. That one.

[Evan]

Doubt about babies, you.

[Steve]

I ain't the be I wrestle with the line and the grizzly bear it's.

[Evan]

My life, baby But I don't care.

[Bob]

Ain't that tough enough?

[Ian]

Ain't that tough enough?

[Evan]

Ain't that tough enough?

[Steve]

Ain't that tough enough? You're saying Goodbye, Jimmy Vaughn.

[Ian]

Goodbye, Jimmy V. Yeah, There we go.

[Steve]

Stars.

[Bob]

Goodbye. Rough and rowdy tea tea Rough and.

[Steve]

Rowdy tea Rough and rowdy tea Three.

[Ian]

Stars, I think this is a fantastic show. I. I don't know. I mean, it's amazing. I listen to every one of these shows and I think this is the best the Rough and Ronnie Ways tour has ever been. After having seen however many shows and listening to all the. It's like. It's a testament, I think, to this band and this tour and this band and this sound that I can keep listening to the same bucking songs time and again in almost the same order. And it's just as fascinating, as thrilling as it was the very first time. Three stars.

[Bob]

Yeah, who cares? I mean, three stars. Yeah, it's really good. It's going to be looked at as having been one of the most legendary periods of one of the most important artists careers of all time. I'm not going to be the one who didn't just recognize that in the moment. It's obvious to me that this is something we're all going to miss as soon as it's gone.

[Ian]

It might have already been gone.

[Steve]

My initial thought was two stars, parentheses, half star. But your words are moving me here. I will say, I think with the reference Running Ways Tour, I think I said this at the top. If Bob were to put out a live record from Referee. Anyways.

[Bob]

Yeah, this is a good time.

[Steve]

Yeah, I feel like he would compile it from shows from this leg. Pull some from the Nashville, pull some from the Austin. Maybe not Jimmy V. Maybe one Jimmy V. Sure. The blues heads out there, the Jimmy.

[Ian]

Reed that they do is fun. I'll throw that bone to him.

[Steve]

But it really feels like this leg, it really. If I can say Bob brought it all back home with this leg.

[Bob]

Brought it all back.

[Steve]

One could say he's bringing it all back home. You know, you could change the. Yeah, the. You could say broader, bring the conjugation, if you will.

[Bob]

Right.

[Steve]

Of that. So if that's true, and this is like one of my favorite shows of this leg, I have to give it three stars.

[Ian]

Yes.

[Steve]

And. And I'll just say, man, like, I made my mind to give myself to you. Like that performance alone, that's as sublime as music gets as far as I'm concerned. Just so great. The harmonica solos on every grain of sand.

[Bob]

Oh, and I do. I do, really, the sound of this, this tape, I agree with you on it sounds very vivid.

[Steve]

It feels really like it has vibe, man. It feels like you're in the room.

[Ian]

Yeah.

[Bob]

It feels like being there in a really a nice way.

[Steve]

Music is great. Music is great. I'm a fan of Music. Music is music. It gets three stars. This tape gets three stars. What more. What more do you want out of life and music than this?

[Ian]

Doesn't get any better than that, folks. Salute to Bob Dylan and the Rough and Rowdy Ways Tour. May we live to see another show on this version of things.

[Steve]

Excited to see what's next.

[Ian]

Yeah, you know, maybe. Actually, you know, strike that. May we not live to see another show with Reprimanding Ways Tour. He killed it. I think he's done it. It's done. It's did. It's good. And let's get on to the next thing. Bob.

[Bob]

The global political situation, such as it is. It's possible that this is the last show Bob Dylan plays. No, no, no, no. But because we're all gonna die, so, you know.

[Ian]

No, things are good. Everything's getting better. I don't know what you're talking about.

[Bob]

Okay.

[Steve]

The three of us will live, and Bob Dylan will live.

[Ian]

That's what's important.

[Steve]

We'll be the three people at the Bob Dylan show when he comes out on Outlaw Tour and he starts doing Watching the River Flow. But it's a different arrangement of it.

[Ian]

I had not even conceived of that possibility before you brought it up here tonight. And now I'm just pissed thinking about it.

[Bob]

I'll be so. I'll be laughing if that happens. I'll be screaming.

[Steve]

I'll be like, bob, you did it again.

[Bob]

I'll be the guy did it again, man.

[Steve]

What? You're undefeated, Bob. You're undefeated. Watching the river flow again. It'd be amazing.

[Ian]

It would be amazing. That is one word for it. Well, stay tuned, folks, and tune in next. You're gonna want to tune in next week on the next bonus episode of Neverending Stories. Because, Steve, it's already taped. It's in the bank. It's getting cut together right now. But Steven had a mano a mano interview with a very special character that I think everyone is going to be quite interested to hear from.

[Steve]

Yes.

[Ian]

But we won't say anymore.

[Steve]

Yes, that's it. We don't need anymore. Just. It's good. We are finally delving into the cast of the Never Ending Tour. And can I just say, if you had to pick one person to talk to that has played on the Never Ending Tour, I feel like it would 1. It would be this person other than. Of course, it's not Bob Dylan. We'll just say that it's not Bob Dylan and it's not Tony Garnier.

[Ian]

It's not Tony so maybe it's the.

[Steve]

Third person you'd want to talk to.

[Ian]

But it's Christopher Parker.

[Steve]

I'd love to talk to Christopher Parker. Chris, if you're listening, please drop the line. We'd be honored to talk to you.

[Ian]

It's going to be a great show, folks. Stick around, stay tuned, keep your eyes out, and as always, don't you dare miss.

[Evan]

What's the.