Jokermen Podcast: Teaser // Billy Joel: THE JOKERMEN 30

Date: September 18, 2025
Hosts: Jokermen (A & B)

Overview:

This episode marks the culmination of the Jokermen Podcast's "Summer of Joel" series—a season-long deep dive into the music and legacy of Billy Joel. The hosts reflect on the complexities of Joel's place in the pop and rock music canon and tease their final act: counting down their top 30 favorite Billy Joel songs as a playlist. The episode is filled with self-aware discussion, moments of humility, and a re-examination of Joel’s critical reception, both historically and in modern terms.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Wrapping Up "Summer of Joel"

• The episode signifies the end of a thematic season dedicated to Billy Joel.

• The hosts take pride in sticking to their timeline, noting the "Summer of Joel" really is ending at the tail of summer (00:11–00:35).

  • Quote: "It's the end of Summer of Joel once and for all, which we're actually ending here in summer, I'm proud to say." — A [00:11]

• Plans to conclude the season with a ranked playlist of their collective favorites, similar to the end of previous series (Randy, et al.) (00:41–01:14).

Reconsidering Billy Joel: Sympathy, Complexity, and Critical Catch-22

• Host B expresses some regret over past harsh remarks and acknowledges Joel’s complex position: simultaneously widely loved and critically dismissed.

  • Quote: "I feel sorry for my. Some of the things I've said..." — B [01:14]
  • Notes insights from previous guests Jake and Ezra, who highlighted the unique challenges Joel has faced.

• The discussion touches on how Joel’s immense commercial success in "old New York" contrasts with his wavering artistic reputation (01:30–02:30).

• B draws parallels between Billy Joel and big-name movie directors who aren't seen as "artistic greats."

  • Points out that popular music in Joel’s heyday lacked an equivalent to Hollywood’s embrace of populism—no established niche for "successful but critically uncool" in music (02:33–03:45).

• Suggests that Joel would perhaps be better received if he emerged in the current "poptimist" era of music criticism, which values broad appeal over strict rockist credibility, unlike the 70s–90s (04:00–04:35).

  • Quote: "...if he were working today ... he'd have a different reputation if this general critical approach had been taken towards music when he was an active recording artist." — A [04:15]

The Rise (and Limits) of Poptimism

• Host A argues that "poptimism" has become the dominant critical framework, sometimes to an excessive degree, and muses that Billy Joel would benefit from this attitude—maybe even too much (04:35–05:39).

  • References examples like Benson Boone, and the change in how pop stars are now received.

• Hosts debate whether Pitchfork is a bastion of old-school "rockism" and reflect on how different critical stances influence artists' reputations (05:39–06:19).

  • Quote: "I almost tweeted this the other day ... the top stories were like, like Sabrina Carpenter, Taylor Swift and Lana Del." — A [06:01]

"Cringe" Culture and Timelessness

• B points out that if Joel were active today, he might simply be dismissed as "cringe," but the term did not exist then. Joel’s literal songwriting and directness make him somewhat immune to—and confused by—critical frameworks that demand innovation (06:19–08:34).

  • Quote: "He literally said it himself, like, I am literal. Like, I'm writing, or he said, I was just writing, literally, like on the Bill Maher thing." — B [07:49]
  • Suggests that critiquing Joel for a lack of artistic ambition is like "rating candy like it’s wine."

• Both agree that Joel "is what he is"—a reliable pop songwriter whose body of work includes "fantastic songs" and, in equal measure, "annoying bullshit" (08:34–09:03).

  • Quote: "He is what he is. And what he is is great pop songwriter and performer with, you know, many fantastic songs, a couple pretty good records, and then a whole lot of just... annoying bullshit." — A & B [08:45–09:03]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• A: "Summer is made, promises kept." [00:35]
• B: "There was definitely less of a precedent for just a. A successful songwriter working in rock and pop mode simultaneously." [03:33]
• B: "When you, like, put these songs against songs that are trying to innovate the form ... it throws everyone off, makes everyone crazy." [08:31]
• B: "It is kind of like rating candy like it's wine." [08:12]
• A (with a nod to Planes, Trains and Automobiles): "I'm not changing. I like me." [09:11]

Important Timestamps

• 00:00–00:41: Setting up the theme: wrapping "Summer of Joel" and introducing the episode’s purpose.
• 01:14–04:00: Re-evaluating Joel’s legacy, with references to past episodes and guest insights.
• 04:00–06:12: The impact of changing critical frameworks ("poptimism" vs. "rockism") on Joel’s reputation.
• 06:19–08:34: The hosts discuss "cringe" culture, Joel’s literal approach, and the folly of judging him by ill-fitting artistic standards.
• 08:34–09:11: Final summation of Joel’s legacy: equal measures of “fantastic songs” and “annoying bullshit,” finished with a self-aware, affectionate send-off.

Closing Note

The episode exemplifies the Jokermen Podcast’s blend of irreverence, self-critique, and thoughtful pop culture analysis. As they prepare to reveal their definitive Billy Joel playlist ("THE JOKERMEN 30"), the hosts cement Joel’s legacy as a songwriter whose career—despite, and perhaps because of, ongoing critical tension—remains undeniably impactful, if also divisive.