Jokermen Podcast: In Conversation with Meg Duffy (Hand Habits) – Episode Summary

Podcast: Jokermen
Episode: The Beach Boys: THE BEACH BOYS (1985) – Special Interview w/ Meg Duffy (Hand Habits)
Recorded: July 2025
Aired: August 25, 2025
Host: Ian (Jokermen)
Guest: Meg Duffy, aka Hand Habits

Episode Overview

This reflective, warm, and searching episode features Ian in conversation with Meg Duffy—renowned guitarist, songwriter, and leader of Hand Habits—on the release of their new album Blue Reminder. The discussion explores the changing sound and scope of the Hand Habits project, the state of being a musician in 2025, deep dives on collaboration and creative process, and searching, honest commentary on love, vulnerability, and making art in fraught times. There are​ bracing asides about LA life, the influence of community, and the everyday realities facing trans and nonbinary artists.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Los Angeles, Air, and Life in 2025

[02:24 – 04:18]

• Meg and Ian bond over living on the northeast side of LA (Eagle Rock).
• Discussion of recent disasters—Altadena fires, poor air quality—and how it directly impacts their community and friends.
  • Meg: “Altadena shit, I mean, it feels like we're far from it energetically where I live, but... a lot of friends lost all of their houses... When I'm with those friends, it doesn't feel very far away at all.” (02:57)
• The Fourth of July—LA’s dangerous, combustible fireworks culture, and the odd pleasure of participating, even amidst environmental dread.
  • Meg: “I did shoot off some bottle rockets... It was really fun. It was worth it, even though I was contributing.” (04:09)

Records, EPs, and the Streaming Era

[05:19 – 09:51]

• Meg reflects on ambiguous distinctions between EPs and albums, noting how marketing and streaming platforms shape perception.
  • Meg: “There are people out there who call it an EP. I don’t fully understand the difference... I literally took all the best songs that I could possibly find and got rid of the bad ones and put those on a record.” (06:38)
• Host and guest bemoan platform shenanigans like Spotify’s categorization rules, algorithmic tyranny, and the pressure toward ‘streamable’ content.
  • Meg: “On Spotify... they even sort what they consider EPs into like a different section of your page.” (07:59)
  • Meg: “With my last record, they’re like, I don’t think you’re gonna be more streamable... Just keep making your artwork.” (09:28)

The Making of Blue Reminder – Sound, Band, and LA Vibe

[10:13 – 14:31]

• Blue Reminder described as “bigger, broader, louder” than previous Hand Habits records.
• Meg wanted to make a real “band record,” leveraging the telepathy developed with close musical collaborators—many of whom also play in Perfume Genius.
  • Meg: “I just wanted to make more of a band record and take my time... because I think with Sugar the Bruise, it was just such an experiment for me and it was kind of scattered.” (10:48)
  • She notes LA’s musical community and sense of shared experience—this is her “LA record.”

Collaborator Deep Dive

[14:31 – 21:20]

• Blake Mills: mentor, friend, producer with “unparalleled” sense of rhythm.
  • Meg: “Blake’s been a good friend of mine now for a long time and kind of a mentor in a sense to me. He’s the reason why I joined Perfume Genius...” (14:53)
  • Detailed story of transforming the song “Bluebird of Happiness” from a folk demo into an electric, rock-infused version with Blake’s help.
    • Meg: “Blake was playing electric and we played the song and it was like, so... much more rock and roll.” (18:14)
  • On how subtle creative input became pivotal to final versions—sampling guitar stabs, using Ableton for robotic effects, and being unafraid to follow instincts until it’s right.
    • Meg: “We sampled one of his guitar stabs ... and then I actually played it with my guitar, but as a sample, so. Because he kept wanting. He wanted it to be, like, really robotic.” (20:14)

The Joy (& Challenge) of Collaboration

[22:28 – 27:14]

• Ian celebrates seeing Daniel Aged (Teen Inc/Ink) in the album credits; Meg reveals Aged has played bass with Hand Habits since Fun House.
  • Meg: “Danny and I, I just was a huge fan of his and I love his playing so much...When I was making Funhouse, I was just like, oh, do you want to come plan my record? Like we’ve never met in person. And he said, yeah.” (24:14)
  • This spirit of reaching out to admired musicians, even online, is fundamental to how Meg builds musical community.
• They discuss the pleasure of digging into album credits to discover who played on what, and the specificity and “sweetness” of Aged’s playing.

From Sideperson to Songwriter

[27:14 – 33:50]

• Meg describes their journey from “just a guitar player, never thought I’d be a songwriter," playing in 10+ bands in upstate New York, to becoming bandleader/songwriter after moving to LA.
  • Meg: “When I first started playing music, like, I never thought I would be a songwriter. The sort of driving force behind all things music in my life has always been guitar and just... playing with other people.” (28:14)
  • On shyness & transformation: “Honestly, only just with this last record did I have, like, an okay time tracking vocals, like, singing. I haven’t spent my life developing my vocal performance as a singer.” (29:37)
  • Confidence as a solo artist took time; initial records led to surprise ongoing demand for Hand Habits music.
    • Meg: “It is a really fortunate—I know how fortunate it is, though, because so many of my songwriter friends don’t have the ability or the opportunity to like, go gig, like, with people and, you know, they don’t have the privilege.” (32:22)
• Separating guitar “personality” from songwriting: Only with Blue Reminder does Meg feel these two identities beginning to merge.

Live Music, Fluid Identities, and New Band Lineups

[33:50 – 38:13]

• Meg juggles roles as main act, collaborator, and live/recording band member for others (Kevin Morby, Sylvan Esso, Perfume Genius).
• Hand Habits’ live configuration now shifting: no longer just “Perfume Genius minus Mike,” due to touring schedules; new band members for 2025.
  • Meg: “We haven’t even had one rehearsal yet...” (36:41)
• Philosophies of live performance: rejecting note-for-note recreations of albums in favor of open, responsive, and evolving arrangements.
  • Meg: “It’s both impossible and, like, not as fun to play a record exactly how it is on the record...I want to have fun. I don’t want to just recreate the record that people can listen to on their own.” (37:23, 37:50)

Love Songs: Sincerity, Vulnerability, and Corny Clichés

[40:32 – 46:23]

• Meg on the difficulty and necessity of writing love songs without self-consciousness:
  • Meg: “It’s really vulnerable and it’s also just exposing and I feel like it can... I find it really challenging to be sincere and also not... cliche.” (40:59)
  • “Being in love is literally an altered state of mind... make you think that bad poetry is good. And I’ve definitely been there before, massively embarrassingly. But I feel like the kind of love that I am in right now and have been in is a little bit more rooted in reality.” (41:39)
  • Learning to let go and, at times, sing straight cliche statements if it fits; songwriting as distinct from poetry—feeling and context can redeem "corny" lines.
    • Meg: “I wanted to not be—I didn’t want to shy away from, like, saying something that was, like, sincere or literal or maybe cliche, like, ‘I need you.’ ... if you’re singing it and like, the music is... Not to take it back to Bob Dylan, but I do think he’s really good at this.” (43:21)
• Discussion of the absence of “workshop” critique culture in indie rock songwriting, compared to poetry.

Influences: Community Over Icons

[46:23 – 50:31]

• Influence comes less from canonical figures and more from peers and close collaborators, especially after years of touring and playing with others.
  • Meg: “Lately it’s been just like the people I’m playing music with... if you immerse yourself in something for long enough, it’s going to have an effect on you...” (46:45, 47:12)
  • But also namechecks Neil Young (After the Gold Rush), Fleetwood Mac (Tango In The Night), Jason Molina, Talk Talk, Blue Nile, Sandy Denny, and Talking Heads.
  • Seeking music that feels like “there were players and not just... a songwriter with Hired Guns.” (49:39)

Joy, Escapism, and Making Art in Difficult Times

[50:35 – 59:11]

• Conversation turns to making Blue Reminder—a record both joyful and hopeful—while the outside world feels "rapidly getting worse".
• Meg reflects on the role of art as a form of escape, as a mental health salve, and for representing joy as a trans artist:
  • Meg: “I think that a record about, like, a trans person who's experiencing, like, joy and love actually is important for the people who are, like, there’s no point.” (53:13)
• On the wish for more openly political songwriting, and why it’s hard to pull off now:
  • Meg: “I wish that there were more songwriters that were taking risks politically in their lyrics... That generation, the artists and like, you know, the bards, the singers of that generation, really did sort of make some difference by, like, critiquing the way things were going. And I feel like with social media, like, it’s so easy for everybody to just say something and, like, then forget about it.” (54:21, 54:54)
  • Ian: “The culture was primed for it back then... Even if your heart is in the right place... it’s almost a fool’s errand to try to work that way.” (57:20)
• Bridging communities at Hand Habits shows: “the most radical thing... is that in the crowd, it’s like trans non-binary people and, like, guitar dad guys.” (58:20)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the “record” vs. “EP”:

  • “I literally took all the best songs that I could possibly find and got rid of the bad ones and put those on a record.” (06:38 – Meg)

• On collaboration & community in LA:

  • “With this record, I wanted to really incorporate, like, just that. Just the sense of that, you know, not like a Wrecking Crew... it's like these guys who I've been playing with for a long time and have really, like, shaped at least my sense of rhythm.” (13:20 – Meg)

• On love songs:

  • “I wanted to not be—I didn't want to shy away from, like, saying something that was, like, sincere or literal or maybe cliche, like, ‘I need you.’” (43:21 – Meg)

• On artistic resilience:

  • “I think that a record about, like, a trans person who's experiencing, like, joy and love actually is important for the people who are, like, there’s no point.” (53:13 – Meg)

• On audience diversity:

  • “My, like, the most radical thing about hand habits as a band touring is that in the crowd, it's like trans non binary people and, like, guitar dad guys... bridging, bridging the divides.” (58:20 – Meg)

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

| Topic | Timestamps | |--------------------------|-----------------| | LA fire & air | 02:24 – 04:18 | | Record vs EP, streaming | 05:19 – 09:51 | | Album production/process | 10:13 – 14:31 | | Blake Mills & “Bluebird” | 14:31 – 21:20 | | Collaboration w. Aged | 22:28 – 27:14 | | Guitar to songwriter arc | 27:14 – 33:50 | | Live philosophies | 33:50 – 38:13 | | Love songs & cliche | 40:32 – 46:23 | | Artistic influences | 46:23 – 50:31 | | Art in troubled times | 50:35 – 59:11 |

Context and Tone

The episode is conversational, friendly, and candid, often playful in tone but unafraid of earnest moments. Meg is insightful about the realities of the music industry, their own vulnerabilities, and the quieter political stakes of their music. Ian’s questions steer the conversation with care and openness, building a space for both reflection and humor, and repeatedly linking Meg’s experiences to the broader currents of indie rock and contemporary life.

For Listeners Who Haven’t Tuned In

This episode is a textured, conversational portrait of a working artist wrestling with love, community, and creativity in a turbulent world. It’s a must for anyone interested in the stories behind the music—especially those craving insight into how modern records actually get made, what it looks like to navigate identity and art, and how music communities survive and thrive across genres, generations, and scenes.

Listen for:

• Honest stories of collaboration and community
• Reflections on the role of art in giving joy amid crisis
• The nuts and bolts of making organic, living records
• Warm, wry banter about the foibles and freedoms of indie rock in the streaming era
• A case study in how songwriting, sincerity, and identity collide in 2025