The Fall: MIDDLE CLASS REVOLT with John Tottenham

Summary

Podcast Summary: Jokermen – "The Fall: MIDDLE CLASS REVOLT with John Tottenham"

Episode Information

• Title: The Fall: MIDDLE CLASS REVOLT with John Tottenham
• Host: Jokermen
• Guest: John Tottenham
• Release Date: December 2, 2024

---

Introduction

In this episode of the Jokermen Podcast, host Evan welcomes special guest John Tottenham to delve deep into The Fall's sixteenth studio album, Middle Class Revolt. Recorded prior to their introductory banter, the conversation seamlessly transitions from light-hearted exchanges to an in-depth analysis of one of The Fall's more obscure records.

---

Overview of Middle Class Revolt

Evan and John begin by establishing the album's position in The Fall's discography, clarifying that Middle Class Revolt is indeed their sixteenth studio album, released in May 1994. They express that this record is often overlooked compared to its predecessors and successors, such as Cerebral Caustic and Shift Work.

Evan [01:28]: "It is literally the 16th studio album by The Fall... and you're wrong."

They discuss the album's reception, noting that some critics deem it one of the band's weakest efforts, particularly criticizing its selection of cover songs.

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Critical Analysis of Cover Songs

A significant portion of the discussion centers around the album's inclusion of covers from bands like Henry Cow, Groundhogs, and The Monks. Both Evan and John express skepticism about these choices, arguing that they detract from the album's overall quality.

John Tottenham [04:33]: "I'm gonna have a really good time together... we're gonna have a real good time together."

Evan [04:54]: "Middle Class Revolt, and I don't even... you have it on CD, right?"

They highlight specific tracks such as "Shut Up" and "Black Monk Time," critiquing their execution and relevance to The Fall's signature sound.

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Deep Dive into Key Tracks

"15 Ways to Leave Your Man"

The conversation shifts to an analysis of "15 Ways to Leave Your Man," a satirical take on Paul Simon's "21 Ways to Leave Your Lover." They commend the song's clever twist and its reflection of Mark E. Smith's penchant for wordplay.

Evan [10:00]: "I think 15 Ways to Leave Your Man is good. It's one of the more sarcastic, emotionally scorned Mark E. Smith productions."

"Reckoning"

"Reckoning" is lauded as one of the standout tracks, praised for its poignant lyrics and emotional depth. Evan mentions that Matt Fishback considers it his favorite Fall song, underscoring its significance.

John Tottenham [13:50]: "Reckoning is Matt Fishback's favorite Fall song. Wow. Which makes sense."

They discuss the autobiographical elements, suggesting it reflects Smith's personal experiences, possibly alluding to relationships during that period.

"M5"

The track "M5" receives attention for its atmospheric depiction of English highways and urban life. They interpret the song as a commentary on the fragmented nature of city living.

John Tottenham [21:02]: "It's named after the motorway M5 and is about England..."

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Production and Musical Style

Evan and John examine the album's production, noting its 90s fusion influences and how it diverges from The Fall's traditional sound. They discuss the possible acid house elements and the overstuffed production style that marks Middle Class Revolt.

Evan [67:58]: "It's very like acid house influenced. Is that the genre that they're sort of grabbing from?"

---

Cultural and Societal Commentary

The duo expands their discussion to broader cultural themes, particularly the concept of the middle-class revolt. They debate the validity and implications of the album's title, pondering its double meanings and relevance to contemporary societal issues.

John Tottenham [46:21]: "We skipped it."

Evan [47:06]: "It's a funny title because what is a middle class revolt? It's like the least thing, the last thing..."

Their conversation touches on the class system in England versus the United States, highlighting differences in societal structures and cultural expressions.

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Comparisons with Other Bands

Evan and John draw parallels between The Fall and other bands like The Clash, Oasis, Blur, and Pulp. They critique certain bands for their authenticity and artistic choices, contrasting them with The Fall's approach.

Evan [51:34]: "So do you not like Joe Strummer? He is kind of like the..."

John Tottenham [52:34]: "He was a middle class guy who affected working class mannerisms..."

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Evan [07:54]: "By no means a bad album."
• John Tottenham [09:20]: "Some great songs in this tracker. The first song is marvelous."
• Evan [12:17]: "It's a catchy song, and I think that it kind of just works."
• John Tottenham [14:26]: "You can get past it in the stupidest ways."
• Evan [25:20]: "It's like, I'm listening to a song and... it's making me take me somewhere."
• John Tottenham [46:21]: "We skipped it."

---

Anecdotes and Tangential Discussions

Throughout the episode, Evan and John share personal anecdotes, such as Evan's argument about Israel and its impact on his perception, as well as stories about wine tasting events and obscure films like "Street Trash." These tangents, while not directly related to Middle Class Revolt, provide a richer context to their personalities and perspectives.

John Tottenham [59:28]: "It was hosted by this Englishman, Julian Davies and cousin Roy, who was the Fall road manager..."

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Conclusion

As the episode wraps up, Evan and John reflect on the enduring legacy of Middle Class Revolt. Despite its mixed reception, they acknowledge its unique place in The Fall's catalog and its reflection of Mark E. Smith's complex artistry.

Evan [65:03]: "How many stars out of three do you give Middle Class Revolt?"

John Tottenham [65:27]: "That's not bad."

They conclude with a light-hearted discussion about hypothetical future episodes, such as tackling The Fall's exhaustive Hard Mode, emphasizing their passion for exploring even the most challenging aspects of the band's work.

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Final Thoughts

This episode of the Jokermen Podcast offers a comprehensive exploration of The Fall's Middle Class Revolt, enriched by John Tottenham's insights and Evan's engaging commentary. Through detailed song analyses, cultural critiques, and personal anecdotes, listeners gain a deeper appreciation for the intricacies of The Fall's music and the enduring conversations it inspires.

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Subscribe to Jokermen Podcast for more deep dives into iconic bands and albums. Follow @jokermenpodcast on Instagram and Twitter for updates and behind-the-scenes content.

Transcript

[Evan]

Well, it's that time again. It's been a while, but it's me, Evan, and I'm joined by John Tottenham.

[John Tottenham]

Yeah. In the house.

[Evan]

Tottenham.

[John Tottenham]

Tottenham. I can't pronounce it either.

[Evan]

In your house. Yes. And we're here to talk about the. Did we get what numbers fall record it is.

[John Tottenham]

Let's guess. I'm gonna take a what? 15.

[Evan]

15. Okay.

[John Tottenham]

What do you think?

[Evan]

I'm gonna say 16.

[John Tottenham]

Let's see. Can't split the difference.

[Evan]

It's a middle class revolt. Which is the. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16th.

[John Tottenham]

So I was closer.

[Evan]

I was right. I said 16.

[John Tottenham]

What did I say? 15.

[Evan]

I was dead on.

[John Tottenham]

You can't cut the live ones though. All compilations.

[Evan]

No, these aren't. I'm talking about studio records. It is literally the 16th. I'm standing on your shoulders having just done that. But I'm right and you're wrong. It's the 16th studio album by default from 5-3-94. And yeah, we're going to be talking about it in the following episode, which we recorded before we recorded this intro. Welcome to Jokerman.

[Unknown]

We're gonna have a really good time.

[Evan]

Together.

[Unknown]

We'Re gonna have a real good time together we're gonna laug dance and child together we're going to have a real good time together we're going to have a real good time together.

[Evan]

Okay.

[John Tottenham]

My mind is scrambled.

[Evan]

Yeah, well, mine too.

[John Tottenham]

No, no, you're still young.

[Evan]

It doesn't feel like it. I just had an hour and a half argument with somebody about Israel where I was on the the good side and they were on the bad side and so I feel I've aged a decade.

[John Tottenham]

Sounds futile.

[Evan]

That's what I was trying to say. That was my angle. But the other person seemed to think that it wasn't. So we're back and we're here to talk about a fall LP again. It's been a long time since we did this. It was. What was the last one we did?

[John Tottenham]

I don't know. I'm very feeble.

[Evan]

I think the last one we did was.

[John Tottenham]

The last one we did was.

[Evan]

It was. RU Are Missing winner.

[John Tottenham]

Yes. Where are you gonna go after that? It's their most reviled record.

[Evan]

Yeah. Basically, that's their most reviled record. R U R Missing winner. And so then this time I think we're doing probably their least. One of their least even thought about records.

[John Tottenham]

Yeah. In fact, I was just reading a review of it on which someone posited that the. It was such a weak record that the best tracks were the COVID versions, of which there are three. And I think those are the worst tracks on it. And actually, they're the worst selection of covers that appear in any of their records.

[Evan]

I'm not even sure which ones are the covers.

[John Tottenham]

Well, it's a Henry Cow thing. War.

[Evan]

That's a Henry Cow cover.

[John Tottenham]

Yeah. And a Groundhog's Junk Man, Both of which betray Smith's PRG roots. And then. And then there's something by the Monks, too.

[Evan]

Well, wait, what's that?

[John Tottenham]

Shut up.

[Evan]

Yeah, Shut up is. It's like a sort of. There's a couple of those. There's also Black Monk Time on Extra Kid, I think, which is a. I like hearing those. I'll never complain hearing Marky Smith in the fall covering the Monks. But, yeah, it's a bit of a mess. I mean, as if that's, like, an issue. We haven't even said the name of the record. It's Middle Class Revolt, and I don't even. You have it on cd, right?

[John Tottenham]

Yeah.

[Evan]

Where?

[John Tottenham]

In my car.

[Evan]

In your car? Because I was gonna, like, look at it.

[John Tottenham]

But you could. There's nothing. There's no information on that.

[Evan]

I have this test pressing, which was gifted to me by a very kind listener a long time ago. It's literally just a vinyl with just a white generic test pressing label.

[John Tottenham]

It doesn't have a track listing on it?

[Evan]

No, there's nothing. It's just a technical demo. But, yeah, you've got a volume. What is that?

[John Tottenham]

The users go to the full.

[Evan]

I've never seen that one.

[John Tottenham]

Oh, yeah, that's the track listing.

[Evan]

Okay, great. So, yeah, this is 1994, the year of my birthday. Came out on Matador. As if. You know, we never say these things, but I'll just read what. What it says here.

[John Tottenham]

You don't have to.

[Evan]

I know I don't have to, but it's like. It's not like there's that much on this subject, so I. There's not, like, a ton written about the. Geez, what number Fall album?

[John Tottenham]

I don't know. I mean, it seems to me the ones directly after this are more disregarded, you know, Cerebral Caustic, and I like Cerebral Caustic.

[Evan]

That would be a good one to do.

[John Tottenham]

Yeah, I agree. Because I don't really know it.

[Evan]

Well, it has. What it has. Maybe my favorite song.

[John Tottenham]

Bonkers in Phoenix. Life Still Bounces Life Just Bounces.

[Evan]

Life Just Bounces, yeah. Life Just Bounces is one of the Best fall songs.

[John Tottenham]

Yeah, There's a couple of the best ones on this record. In fact, I think one that always makes my top 10 is 15 ways. No. M5.

[Evan]

Yeah. What's the deal with that one? I guess we'll just start at the top. I mean, the COVID I didn't read what this said, so it came out May 94. When Smith remarked later in the year that he was looking. Yeah, yeah. That he was looking for a new producer to give the fall a kick in the pants. The. Wow. This word. The mirror.

[John Tottenham]

Yeah, I know. That was amazing. I was gonna look. That word.

[Evan]

Mirror. Mail. Mermet. Collegical.

[John Tottenham]

It doesn't really fit.

[Evan]

Merriment.

[John Tottenham]

What does he say?

[Evan]

What is merriment?

[John Tottenham]

I don't know. I was gonna look it up. It may be invented.

[Evan]

Middle Class Revolt is probably the first to stand up and applaud. By no Means a bad album. I don't. I don't. Yeah, I mean, they. I think that maybe that's a weird typo.

[John Tottenham]

I think it might be a typo.

[Evan]

By no Means a bad album. I think that's right. The way that, say, an R.E.M. or fish album is bad. It was, nevertheless an unconvincing and more seriously unconvinced offering, built around songs that were only halfway to completion and arrangements that seemed to know it. Smith's lyrics are louder and clearer than ever before, as if to disguise the fact that the band seems simply to be busking, or worse, merely cruising with the paucity of ideas or an exaggerated need to annoy. Best illustrated by Symbol of Morgan, a telephone conversation about football and Manchester City between Craig Scanlon and DJ John Peele set to a lo Fi twanging that sounds like an unrehearsed garage band trying to play the shadows. It was no coincidence at all then that the best numbers were the covers. Yeah, okay. We don't need to keep reading this. I'll keep it open for the track listing. But, yeah, the best versions are not the covers. The best versions, the best songs.

[John Tottenham]

Some great songs in this tracker. The first song is marvelous. 15 ways.

[Evan]

Yeah, 15 ways is good.

[John Tottenham]

That's a delight.

[Unknown]

Something to be down Harder there must be 10 ways to live your mouth don't be broken Harder There are many ways to leave your man.

[Evan]

I knew that you'd like this one. 15 waves is like the. One of the more like sarcastic, emotionally scorned Mark E. Smith Productions. But, I mean, the first two songs you're getting kind of like, oh, was he. Like, he was just freshly broken up with or Something.

[John Tottenham]

Yeah, I think so. I'm not sure with whom. It wasn't Bricks. That was ended a couple of years earlier. And then she rejoined the band just after this record, actually. But no, I mean, 15 ways, of course, is a. Let's say, piss take on that Paul Simon song.

[Evan]

Oh, yeah.

[John Tottenham]

How many ways to. What is it? 21 Ways to Leave your lover.

[Evan]

What do you think about Paul Simon?

[John Tottenham]

I love Simon Garfunkel. Obviously you can't. They can't be denied. They have to be reckoned with.

[Evan]

So here's the thing is, on the episode of Jokerman that I was just doing, we had a guest who talked about how much she hated Paul Simon. Hates him, hates, hate. And I said, bridge over troubled Water, and she said, hate it.

[John Tottenham]

Who was this?

[Evan]

I'd rather not.

[John Tottenham]

That's crazy.

[Evan]

I don't want to give you. I want to bias anything. I just want to tell you what you. I want to get your read on what somebody who hates Paul Simon says Graceland is.

[John Tottenham]

I think there's something unlikable about him.

[Evan]

Yeah.

[John Tottenham]

But I don't mean as a person. For some reason.

[Evan]

Yes, I agree, but as a person, it's different than, like, are you.

[John Tottenham]

I mean, I love. He's a great songwriter.

[Evan]

I mean, I think so.

[John Tottenham]

Obviously, Bookends and Bridge Over Trouble Ward is some of the best songwriting ever. And not. Godfunkel's voice is a thing of beauty. I don't like Paul Simon's voice so much at all, though.

[Evan]

Yeah, his voice is okay. I. I do think that he's talented, and I don't think you can take that away from him. Yeah. 15 Ways to Leave you. Is that so this is just Mark doing that.

[John Tottenham]

Well, I mean, the beauty of it is, you know, he says there's 15 ways to leave your man.

[Evan]

Yeah.

[John Tottenham]

So it's directed at a woman. But then he keeps switching around saying, there are 20 ways to leave your man. There are eight ways to keep your man. As if just making fun of the whole idea of the complete absurdity of these breakup songs.

[Evan]

It's a catchy song, and I think that it kind of just works. Having that one idea.

[John Tottenham]

It's like Rarity. That other full song, the Older Lover.

[Evan]

Which one's that?

[John Tottenham]

It's on slates. You know, she'll take. You'll take the older lover, you'll take the younger lover. You'll leave.

[Evan]

It is like that.

[John Tottenham]

Yeah. There's a great line. You'll get a dallying notion, but you will soon recover.

[Unknown]

You got a Beautiful party. There's at least 15 ways to leave your mouth Get a flat on a magazine get your body ahead and out of that sim but don't be this don't shut up the uphead waiters to keep your man on Dump it down hard at there are 50 ways to leave your man.

[Evan]

I do like the production generally on this. This is. When was the era with the production from Craig Leon. This isn't Craig Leon.

[John Tottenham]

I think it was just before because there's that song, the five hundred Dollar Bottle of Wine.

[Evan]

Yeah.

[John Tottenham]

Apparently that's about a bottle of wine that Craig Leon bought for bricks. Really expensive bottle of wine.

[Evan]

Wow.

[John Tottenham]

And she left it on in the kitchen and told Mark not to drink it. And of course he did. And he said it tasted like shit. He didn't realize it was a five hundred dollar bottle.

[Evan]

Yeah, well, all I needed here was just a little bit of it.

[John Tottenham]

Well, then we've got the next song, Reckoning.

[Evan]

This is like one of the. This is kind of a top tier fall song.

[John Tottenham]

Yeah, I think. I think songs. Or the first three or four. But Reckoning is Matt Fishback's favorite fall song. Wow. Which makes sense.

[Evan]

That's good.

[John Tottenham]

And it's a breakup song. It sounds really hurt in it.

[Evan]

Yeah. No, it's like kind of you're living.

[John Tottenham]

With some hippie heart which.

[Evan]

Who thinks he's Mr. Mark Smith. Yeah. The whole thing is really unusually poignant and like direct. And you definitely get a sense that he's actually, you know. He throws himself by name into the song.

[John Tottenham]

Yeah. That I. Right.

[Evan]

When does that ever happen? That's not.

[John Tottenham]

Well, he mentions the Fall a lot. I don't know if he's ever said Mark Smith before.

[Evan]

I don't know that he has the before or after. I need a new drink.

[John Tottenham]

I'll too.

[Evan]

I've always loved the intro to the Reckoning. It's a very peculiar tone that it strikes. Yeah.

[John Tottenham]

Actually, you know, that song's a. He was. I was reading about it. He was seeing some girl who lived in Dallas.

[Evan]

Well. Yeah, I called you up from Dallas.

[John Tottenham]

Yeah. And I think it's about her, right.

[Evan]

Yeah, I guess so.

[John Tottenham]

But then it could be about two different chicks at the same time. I mean, Marks. It doesn't seem like he was. Was single very often.

[Evan]

No, he was a serial monogamous.

[John Tottenham]

He was. And there is a remarkably high degree of comeliness among his women, I think you'll agree.

[Evan]

Comeliness. Yes.

[John Tottenham]

They're all very fetching.

[Evan]

They look good too.

[Unknown]

I thought you were from Dallas. But your heart was still in marble and your brain was reckoning. Your friends are discompense mentors. And most in leather jackets are conversing. Rational. Rational. I are sleeping with some hippie Halfway perfect.

[Evan]

Wow. Matt Fishback's favorite song by the Fall is the Reckoning.

[John Tottenham]

Yeah.

[Evan]

Good choice. Behind the Counter. I think that this one is kind of. I don't know that I love it, but I think it's good. I guess it's not like a favorite of mine.

[John Tottenham]

No, me neither.

[Evan]

It pops up on compilations all the time. It's kind of like. I guess. Mark. Mark. Eve Smith must have liked it.

[John Tottenham]

I don't. He probably wasn't responsible for most of those compilations.

[Evan]

I just feel like it shows up like that.

[John Tottenham]

Yeah, it does.

[Evan]

Like it was played a lot. Yeah. It's got a whistle in it. What's it about?

[John Tottenham]

Impossible to say. We don't have the lyrics, do we?

[Evan]

I'm getting thin from idiots who write rock books. Disparate ex groups cold would have played this for Nose Pin and the Punk Piggies didn't quite make it. They say get behind the counter. The other side of the counter. Chill it, boy. The other side of the counter. Yeah, it. I. I don't know.

[Unknown]

But I'm getting them from way down. They just want us to be behind the council. Behind the counter. The helicopter.

[John Tottenham]

I think it's just a. Got a catchy chorus and he just. That's about it.

[Evan]

Yeah. Next song.

[John Tottenham]

M5. Yeah, that's one of my favorite.

[Evan]

So what's the deal with this one?

[John Tottenham]

Great song. You want to hear it? Yeah, but the better version is the appeal sessions 1. I don't know why they.

[Evan]

Yeah, this one's good. Wait, this is behind the counter.

[John Tottenham]

I mean this. The lyrics to M5 are pretty cohesive. You'll never see me try to ru cane. You'll never see me wear a suit of grain.

[Evan]

We'll wait for it. We haven't started.

[John Tottenham]

We got SM.

[Unknown]

Ground. There's a slip road up right ahead. L into the agro gul city Bone umbrella Too many coffee. Just a well wrapped up. But you just think a country man would understand the devil makes work for idle hounds. M560.

[Evan]

Yeah, this one sounds like the beginning of it. Sounds like a haunted house. Like the haunted mansion music.

[John Tottenham]

It's a good driving record. And I think it's named after the motorway. M5.

[Evan]

M5.

[John Tottenham]

Yeah, it's about England. And there's a split road lying straight ahead leading to the agrarian. That's a great night. I'm city born and bred. Too many car fumes in my head. Just a well read peasant.

[Evan]

That's good.

[John Tottenham]

Thanks.

[Evan]

Work with idle hands.

[John Tottenham]

7:00Pm I mean, captures that atmosphere of being on a. On a highway, you know, being on a highway, being in a city in the evening.

[Evan]

Yeah, it definitely does.

[John Tottenham]

It's got that smoky kind of feeling to it, you know, that leads to the Hayway. And he writes about. That's obviously referring to the Constable painting, the Hay Wayne.

[Evan]

The Hay Wayne, yeah.

[John Tottenham]

It's a very popular painting in England. It's almost as popular as American Gothic by Grant Wood is over here. But it's a.

[Evan]

It says a pastoral image.

[John Tottenham]

Yeah, the Hayway.

[Evan]

Yeah. I. I just need to situate myself. Which were like, what were the records before and after this? Because we haven't been doing this in no chronological order.

[John Tottenham]

I'm not sure. I think afterwards was cerebral caustic.

[Evan]

I need to look at the discography.

[John Tottenham]

Was it infotainment?

[Evan]

I mean, I. We have to do infotainment. We done? Okay. I'm thinking if we have to do shift work, that comes after this, right? No, shift work is before this.

[John Tottenham]

I'm not sure.

[Evan]

Jesus. The Marshall suite is until 99, but you definitely have touches of the Marshall Suite and levitate. Like. Like, I feel like this is.

[John Tottenham]

They sort of entered their wilderness years after this.

[Evan]

I mean, this period. I like levitate, I like them all.

[John Tottenham]

But people just weren't paying attention to them.

[Evan]

Yeah. I mean, wilderness in the sense that they were lost to the public eye, but they were still toiling away and definitely like hit a groove of. Yeah, the 90s. I think the 90s has been basically an under respected period. We've already. Yeah, we did infotainment, which was 93.

[John Tottenham]

But that was right before this.

[Evan]

Yeah. Okay, wait, so. So shift work was 90, code selfish is 92, infotainment is 93, and then this is 94.

[John Tottenham]

What was 91?

[Evan]

There's no 91. It's just 90 and 92. Shift work is a big album. I. We have to do Shift Work next.

[John Tottenham]

I know that you had. You were listening to this record recently and you had some issues with it.

[Evan]

Well, I realized that it's not a good thing to. It wasn't intentional, but I was.

[John Tottenham]

You just. Yeah.

[Evan]

Listening to this and then found myself in a romantic context. And then it was still playing during. And then this song came on.

[John Tottenham]

Which one?

[Evan]

The. The next one.

[John Tottenham]

Here? Yeah. It's like a challenge, wasn't it?

[Evan]

Like, God, really not good music to have a tender Moment to.

[John Tottenham]

That might.

[Evan]

No.

[John Tottenham]

Not be incompatible with thrusting, depending on.

[Evan]

What you're interested in. I mean, at this point of the.

[John Tottenham]

Record, I don't think any Fall records would make great makeout albums.

[Evan]

No, not. Not at all. But this one in particular, I do think that this record is kind of abrasive in a way that like. It's a little bit uncharacteristic. Even like Surmountable Obstacles kind of like takes off from M5 number one and sort of like brings it into a. Just a greater intensity but also kind of less compelling on its face.

[John Tottenham]

It's one of those. It's just a groove classic Fall cuts where he has a very declarative title and uses it as a vehicle for a journey into the abstraction and the surreal.

[Evan]

Yeah, exactly. But he doesn't do that as often in like the two preceding records. Like I feel like with. Well, maybe on Code Salvage more. But on shift work there's like songs that are songs pretty much exclusively.

[John Tottenham]

Well, there's some on this one too. The first two songs, 15 Ways and Reckoning.

[Evan]

Yeah. Suffice it to say that Surmount All Obstacles is not really worth delving deeply into. It's more of like a one, one track thing with.

[John Tottenham]

I like that line. His face is full of XXX sex cruelty.

[Evan]

Well, I guess that's technically sexual. Sexy.

[John Tottenham]

Yeah. Guilt, Blue eyed A caring, sharing man Embarrassed them into extinction but where things.

[Evan]

Really got bad was when the next song started playing.

[John Tottenham]

Oh yeah, what's that? The Henry Cow.

[Evan]

Yeah. Because of that.

[John Tottenham]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Tell her the birds Tell her what.

[John Tottenham]

Appeared on earth.

[Unknown]

Musicians with gongs Permeated the autobahn she split the egg and pieces of disgusting breath.

[John Tottenham]

She spread the.

[Unknown]

World Cast the spell of war was born.

[John Tottenham]

Yeah, I mean. Henry Cow. Have you ever listened to them?

[Evan]

Yeah, I have.

[John Tottenham]

I've tried to.

[Evan]

I mean I. Yeah, exactly. I've tried to.

[John Tottenham]

I mean I wanted to. I wanted to like them. They wouldn't let me.

[Evan]

I was a big amount still, you know, a huge fan of this Heat.

[John Tottenham]

Oh yeah. That would be.

[Evan]

The thing about this Heat and Henry Cow as I understand it, is that they shared a practice space or like they were adjacent to each other. And that makes sense. But this Heat is much more as experimental as they are to, you know, especially on their non. Non album releases. Like, I mean everything that's not deceit is much more like textural and based on just sort of these exercises that are a little bit more like music concrete or whatever. But they're more song oriented than Henry.

[John Tottenham]

Cal even Henry Cow is very cerebral. Challenging. Mostly sort of math. Rock Froggy.

[Evan]

Yeah.

[John Tottenham]

Stuff. I mean, obviously a bunch of students, they're like.

[Evan]

If the residents weren't joking.

[John Tottenham]

Yeah. Though they were affiliated with Slap Happy, who I like quite a bit.

[Evan]

What's the deal?

[John Tottenham]

They put a record out together.

[Evan]

Slap Happy. Is that Peter Blegman?

[John Tottenham]

Yeah, exactly.

[Evan]

I only. Mainly because of his great comic series, Leviathan, which is just really great. What am I looking at?

[John Tottenham]

What? What are you looking at?

[Evan]

You put, like, something on your. Your window. It's moving.

[John Tottenham]

What, behind it?

[Evan]

No, right here. Right there.

[John Tottenham]

Oh, for sake. Is there a bird there?

[Evan]

I don't think so.

[John Tottenham]

Don't look. I'll do it.

[Evan]

A bird?

[John Tottenham]

There's nothing there.

[Evan]

No. I don't know why it's moving then.

[John Tottenham]

It's just the wind, I think. It's a windy night, is it not?

[Evan]

I don't know what's next.

[John Tottenham]

People are watching love streams at the moment.

[Evan]

Who?

[John Tottenham]

Various people.

[Evan]

Various people are watching the cassava film. I saw it at the Egyptian not that long ago.

[John Tottenham]

Did you like it?

[Evan]

Yeah.

[John Tottenham]

It's a bit much, isn't it?

[Evan]

I mean, yeah, there's like. There's like a dream ballet, basically, which doesn't necessarily need to be there. I really love the ending because it has a great scene where he puts on a hat because he's drunk.

[John Tottenham]

But he's drunk throughout the entire film.

[Evan]

Yeah, but at the end he's just like the type of drunk where he just puts a hat on, like a silly hat.

[John Tottenham]

And does what?

[Evan]

Nothing. He's just like kind of in his house and it's raining. It's like pouring rain. I like that because you never get to see that moment depicted in film, except for that example that I know of. But it's a real thing. Just being really drunk and kind of depressed and just putting on a silly hat alone to be lying around alone or with people. But it's more poignant alone.

[John Tottenham]

I mean, the amount of drinking that goes on in that film is almost unbelievable.

[Evan]

It's bleak. And it's also real, I think.

[John Tottenham]

You think they're drinking real alcohol?

[Evan]

I mean, he died of alcoholism.

[John Tottenham]

Yeah, I know.

[Evan]

So, yeah, probably. Like, you don't just die of cirrhosis if you aren't drinking to a degree that would be considered cartoonish by most people. What does the original sound like? You sent it to me.

[John Tottenham]

I only listened to it for the first time.

[Evan]

I mean, this one has that oppressive bang, bang, bang, bang thing that you do.

[John Tottenham]

I think all of the COVID Potions on this record, very loose. I mean, is that it?

[Evan]

Yeah. Side B. Oh, what's this?

[John Tottenham]

Oh, this is a good one. Some of my favorites. You're not up too much.

[Evan]

Yeah, this is good.

[John Tottenham]

Well, it's one of his sort of classic put down songs, isn't it?

[Evan]

You know, it's got a great title for being a classic put down song. You're not up to much.

[John Tottenham]

Yeah, yeah, it's got some good notes in it, too. What does she want?

[Evan]

What does she want?

[John Tottenham]

Isn't. Oh, my friend is watching Love Streams and she said it's not a complete film. I'm not sure what that means. You know, fun fact about this song. What happened to the song Middle Class Revolt?

[Evan]

It's still on there.

[John Tottenham]

Oh, is it? We haven't gotten this one. You know, there's a one. The lyrics are great on this and interesting. I was reading about. Her mind's in pieces, her ballroom days are deceased.

[Evan]

That's good.

[John Tottenham]

Yeah. Well, apparently there's something about ballroom days in a Door song Five to One. And not only that, but that Doors song, Five to One. The lyrics are, your ballroom days are over, baby. Night is drawing near. Shadows of the evening crawl across the years. And that in itself was derived from a 19th century hymn.

[Evan]

What's the hymn?

[John Tottenham]

I don't know.

[Evan]

Maybe I know.

[John Tottenham]

No, no, it was anonymous. I mean, it was an unknown author. It was a hymn, but it's great.

[Evan]

How do you know it was a hymn if it was, if it was.

[John Tottenham]

Anonymous, could have been a her song. Could have been. Yeah. But another fun fact about this lyric is in the last, love's boat is smashed against existence. Yeah, well, you know what? That's taken from the Russian poet Mayakovsky. Suicide note.

[Evan]

Oh, God, I was laughing and now I'm not.

[John Tottenham]

And he wrote in his suicide note, love's boat has been shattered against the life of every day. Oh, you and I are quits and it's useless to draw up a list of mutual hurts, sorrows and pain.

[Evan]

He said you and I are quits.

[John Tottenham]

I guess he must have killed himself over a woman.

[Evan]

I mean, this was in Russian, right?

[John Tottenham]

Yeah, so I don't think that's extraordinarily good looking. And he.

[Evan]

Yeah, but he wasn't saying like, you and I are quits, toots.

[John Tottenham]

Oh, yeah. Maybe he's talking about life itself.

[Evan]

I don't think he used the word quits is what I mean.

[John Tottenham]

No, of course he didn't. That's a translation by a very modern.

[Evan]

By who? New York gangster with A cigar.

[John Tottenham]

Someone from Times Square.

[Evan]

You and I are quits. Yeah, that's how they talk in Dime Square.

[John Tottenham]

I didn't even know what Dime Square was when I up until 6.

[Evan]

Sounds like you still don't.

[John Tottenham]

I went out with someone last night who was part of the Dime Square world. Was it christened Dime Square purely on account of the literary scene?

[Evan]

No, no, no. It's because of the restaurant Dimes, which had its initial outpost, which is now the Dimension Deli. Basically, like they. It was just this one little restaurant that sort of expanded to like they have a little market and a little deli and a little. And a more. A bigger little restaurant now. But it's like triangulated in this one little zone on Division and East Broadway mostly. And I lived on Division street right over there. And, you know, now there's all these people who just like, go there to be around it, which is now, you.

[John Tottenham]

Know, during the day.

[Evan]

Yeah, yeah, people just go there.

[John Tottenham]

Coffee houses.

[Evan]

Yeah, there's coffee shops. But mostly it's like there's little restaurants and bars and I mean, it's really not that different from like, from Silver Lake and Echo park, but there's. Because it's in Manhattan, as everything in Manhattan is like. You know, the real estate is so concentrated that people mythologize regions much more, with more alacrity. I'll say. It's like it takes longer for a place in Los Angeles to be considered important probably by like a cultural measure. But as soon as people start moving, like, you know, anybody who has any kind of like, clout moves to a region of lower Manhattan, it's like clout chase is suddenly important. But anyway, it seems like a lot of people down there these days kind of like our. Into being conservative as like, as a larp. This is a good time to just sort of shoot the shit because after you're not up too much, we've got symbol of Mordg.

[John Tottenham]

Well, yeah, that's when I talk about full hard mode, I don't think. It's not even a song. It's just John Peele and Greg Scanlon talking about a football match.

[Evan]

There is like this sort of standard, like surf rock thing that sounds like it's. Sounds like it's being played through interesting.

[John Tottenham]

Cultural artifact now because at the time Manchester City were a shit team and now they're the biggest team in Europe. At the time, only 15% of Mancunians supported Man City.

[Evan]

That has always sounded to me like Manchurian. Yeah.

[John Tottenham]

I've never known how to Say that word. Is it man or man?

[Evan]

You're asking me? We play near, like, football at the.

[John Tottenham]

Moment because Mal there, he used to.

[Evan]

Like, kind of just boot the ball.

[John Tottenham]

And he'd head it to the opposing side. Of course, you know, the Craig, Skyland and Smith and the rest. And the boys in Oasis, of course, love the underdog team. And just a city. You're not a victim.

[Evan]

So did Marky Smith like Oasis?

[John Tottenham]

He's a good question.

[Evan]

What is the right side of history regarding Oasis?

[John Tottenham]

I think it's right to enjoy them as people, but not to think much of their music. I think they're always entertaining.

[Evan]

I certainly don't think much of their music, but that. I mean that literally. I want you and the listeners to understand that, as literally as you can take it. I don't think much of their music.

[John Tottenham]

No, I don't either. But I like it better than Blur.

[Evan]

Well, Blur seems like they want you really badly to think much of their music, but as far as Blur goes, I like a couple Gorillaz records.

[John Tottenham]

There are a bunch of art school boys who are pretending to be working.

[Evan]

Class, whereas Oasis are working class boys who are happy to not be anymore.

[John Tottenham]

Yeah, I mean, something very irritating about. I don't know what it is. I mean, it was nice Pulp over the weekend, of course, but they're head and shoulders above those two bands.

[Evan]

Pulp is actually, I think, a really good band. Thank you. I think Pope is underrated.

[John Tottenham]

Not anymore. It's unbelievable how excited people are about the OS history. And they're so boring to look at, too. They don't move on stage. Are those my headset? Are those my.

[Evan]

No, these are my. I've just got an earpiece in so I can listen to Symbol of Mord.

[John Tottenham]

You're listening to it?

[Evan]

Yeah, but I think we could move on to the next tune.

[John Tottenham]

How many people listening to your Fall Hard Mode on Spotify?

[Evan]

That's a good question.

[John Tottenham]

It is a playlist of genius.

[Evan]

Anybody who's listening here ought to know that. I made a playlist called the Fall Hard Mode, which is every fall song that I'm aware of. If there's anything missing, I encourage 48 saves.

[John Tottenham]

That's not bad.

[Evan]

Yeah, it's three hours and four minutes of the most difficult, unlistenable, songless songs by the Fall songs that are basically, by a. By definition, not songs, not music. Some would say there's at least one.

[John Tottenham]

On almost every record.

[Evan]

Almost every record has at least one. This one has Symbol of Morgan, which is, as we discussed, a good A curio for. I mean it's not even that interesting. If you're interested in football, it's like, oh, they're talking about out of date bullshit. Is that interesting?

[John Tottenham]

I think there's more deliberately irritating songs on this record than most of them.

[Evan]

Well, I think War that Goes by.

[John Tottenham]

And also Junk man is irritating.

[Evan]

But the next song, hey Student, I actually think is one of the best songs on the record as just like a kind of keyed up straight fall rocker, you know, it makes sense that Cerebral Caustic.

[John Tottenham]

Yeah.

[Evan]

Is next because you've got. What is the song on that that reminds me of it is the Joke is kind of like that.

[John Tottenham]

Well, hey Student was. It's derived from one of their very earliest songs which. No, never recorded. Hey Fascist. That was pre. Very early on, before their first single even.

[Evan]

Hey Fascist.

[John Tottenham]

Yeah, it's the same. Different lyrics. I don't really like this song personally.

[Evan]

It's not my favorite.

[John Tottenham]

He hates students.

[Evan]

Yeah, I do kind of like hate Student because I just think it's energetic. But it's no. It's no Birmingham School of Business School.

[Unknown]

Entirely fictional. A long head down that sneakers on your feet Iron is to the news I'm glad. The best steps in this Jew.

[Evan]

I said.

[John Tottenham]

I like this quote from Smith here quite a bit where it says I think we missed middle class before.

[Evan]

No, we didn't miss middle class.

[John Tottenham]

He said that. I hate that image of me hating everything. That's middle class. It's horrible when people are frightened of you because of it really. They're just other people with their own set of problems. Very true. Other people there no middle class people like me. Us.

[Evan]

Actually we. We do have middle class. Rivel skipped.

[John Tottenham]

We skipped it.

[Evan]

So it's after some mountain. All obstacles. That's fine. It's the middle. It's in the middle.

[Unknown]

Everything is.

[John Tottenham]

Great title.

[Evan]

It's a funny title because what is a middle class revolt? It's like the least thing, the last thing. The last group that would have something to complain about. But that is everything.

[John Tottenham]

The middle class revolt one day Revolting.

[Evan]

The middle class revolt. Is that what he's saying?

[John Tottenham]

It could be.

[Evan]

I mean knowing him, it's. I'm sure that the double meaning of a word isn't lost on his. No, it never is. That's something that. About Mark E. Smith that you learn, I think are your best. If we teach you nothing else, John and I, during the course of this episode or any other about the fall, I think that that's a good lesson. It's like Marky Smith is never to be assumed not to understand that a word has a double meaning. He's always going to have at least thought of it it, if not found a way to use it very confusingly.

[John Tottenham]

Well, you know, the class system in England is like Orwell said, the English are branded on their tongues and it's, it's a cancer, isn't it?

[Evan]

I watched this video the other day, like somebody on YouTube, some British guy talking about British life today and I think more generally just British sensibilities and was saying that it's so depressing to be there. I guess he's like a well traveled guy, probably like a travel vlogger. But he was just saying like people complain about things all the time, but then if you have something to say about how to fix it, they'll complain about you. They'll be like, they'll be like, well, shut up. So like there's no moving past anything. It's just this kind of like you get to feel like you're superior to the person who has the bright idea because that's foolish. But also you spend all your time suffering because you don't adopt the idea that something like that is what he was saying, that it's very dreary and people sort of repress themselves to death.

[John Tottenham]

Yes, they do. So I mean it's a very homogenized culture.

[Evan]

Do you think it's different here?

[John Tottenham]

Yes, completely. You can't imagine how refreshing it was when I came over here initially.

[Evan]

I guess.

[John Tottenham]

Yeah.

[Evan]

I mean the only thing that is sort of the caveat with the refreshment is that some people are so individualistic that they kill you. Yeah, yeah.

[John Tottenham]

What do you mean?

[Evan]

I mean like shootings and stuff, you know, you just have like.

[John Tottenham]

Oh, I mean, England's worse. I mean it's a barbaric society. Violence is endemic and epidemic there.

[Evan]

Really?

[John Tottenham]

I mean it's absolutely. I mean violence is a sport over there.

[Evan]

That's what you've said. It's like you either get beaten down.

[John Tottenham]

Beaten down or beaten up. Yeah.

[Evan]

Beaten down or in the United States, in this country you get beaten up.

[John Tottenham]

Yeah. But you get beaten down.

[Evan]

In the United Kingdom you get beat down.

[John Tottenham]

They don't like you getting above your station over there.

[Evan]

And here you just get beaten up physically and then it doesn't necessarily affect your station.

[John Tottenham]

The class system here doesn't dictate everything.

[Evan]

No. Because you can get past it in the stupidest ways.

[John Tottenham]

Well, in England everyone thinks that every, I mean, punk was the great equalizer There people felt guilty about him being middle class and affected working class mannerisms. Joe Strummer would be the perfect example of that.

[Evan]

So do you not like Joe Strummer? He is kind of like the.

[John Tottenham]

I dislike him. He's just. He was a middle class guy who affected working class mannerisms and attempted to fob himself up as a working class bloke, which he was just. I mean, yeah, of course, rock and roll is all about reinvention and so on, but there was something a little dishonest about it.

[Evan]

Well, it's an odd question because it's like, would it be better if all artists were just happy to be middle class, upper class and not think about the lower class at all?

[John Tottenham]

Well, maybe he should have just written about his middle class guilt rather than pretending to be working class.

[Evan]

Yeah, the whole guilt thing is kind of a trap, though.

[John Tottenham]

Yes, the guilt trap.

[Evan]

It doesn't necessarily make you interested to be guilty.

[John Tottenham]

I think he did great work on the first Clash record. It was all crap after that.

[Evan]

You don't like London College?

[John Tottenham]

No, it's horrible. The Clash. I mean, they said everything they had to say with the first record. They addressed every issue that required addressing White Riot. With the Clash, it's all about the first record. Ultimately, it's all about that one song, White Riot. It's an amazing song.

[Evan]

Of course, it was like, one of the first records I ever listened to. By choice. By choice, you know, like of my. Of the CDs floating around the house.

[John Tottenham]

Oh, your dad had it?

[Evan]

Yeah.

[John Tottenham]

Nice.

[Evan]

So I listened to the first Clash record and London Calling, like, at the same time. And I liked the first one. And I liked, I think, Lost in the Supermarket, I thought was that was the first emo song I ever heard. Kind of the first emo song ever written.

[John Tottenham]

Yeah, good point.

[Evan]

Okay, Junk man is next after. Hey, student.

[John Tottenham]

That's a Ground Toes record. Apparently the first gig Mark Smith went to was a Groundhogs gig.

[Evan]

Who are the Groundhogs?

[John Tottenham]

They were blues rockers.

[Evan]

Very grubby, hairy, like ZZ Top.

[John Tottenham]

No. Yeah, a little bit. It was more they actually. I guess Tony McPhee of the Groundhogs is still alive, which is incredible to consider because he always seemed. He had a band, the Groundhogs. And they were the sort of band that when John Lee Hooker or whomever came over to the uk, they would back him up. This would be in the mid-60s. And then they became progressively more far out after that and put out that record split, which some people like a lot. Which Junkman is on.

[Evan]

Well, I don't know. Junk man. So it just kind of of. Should I throw this on Fall Hard mode? Honestly, it's kind of like the easier end of that. But it's not very fun to listen to.

[John Tottenham]

Should you do what?

[Evan]

Throw junk band?

[John Tottenham]

No, it doesn't belong on there. It's too melodic. Way too melodic.

[Evan]

It is long. Yeah, it is 4 minutes, 22 seconds of just like the same plodding thing. But whenever I get to a song like this and like all the fall Hard mode songs like, the. The question I ask myself is, like, what would you rather listen to? Say if you want to listen to music, would you rather listen to this? Or silence or top 40?

[John Tottenham]

And that's it.

[Evan]

Obviously, it's. This is. You know, you. You don't want to not listen to music. This is much more like engaging music than just sort of pop song top 40. So, yeah, it'll actually, like, do the trick. Even if it's not through the me not the way you wanted it done, It'll get the job done. Of like. Like, I'm listening to a song and I'm. It's making me. Taking me somewhere.

[John Tottenham]

Have you managed to listen to it all the way through? That would be quite an achievement.

[Evan]

Passively. I have. What?

[John Tottenham]

No, it's the hard mode.

[Evan]

Oh, no, I should. We should. That should be the next one.

[John Tottenham]

Well, how. You said it's five hours long or something.

[Evan]

It's three hours. But we don't have to, like, do we could just both have listened to it.

[John Tottenham]

Yeah.

[Evan]

And then we just talk about what that was like. That's a good idea.

[John Tottenham]

It'll never happen.

[Evan]

Why not? You don't have three hours of time.

[John Tottenham]

No, I do, but I just don't think it's ever gonna happen. It'd be great.

[Evan]

That's what I'm saying. It should happen. You know, people like these episodes.

[John Tottenham]

Famous last words.

[Evan]

This could be the one that breaks.

[John Tottenham]

Yeah, I think so.

[Evan]

The $500 bottle of wine.

[John Tottenham]

While I was researching this record, somebody unequivocally came out and said, this is the worst fall song ever. I think it's a great one.

[Evan]

I think it's good. I think it's kind of the. Actually, when I didn't know this record at all.

[John Tottenham]

Can't she.

[Evan]

And I didn't even really want to. This was the first song on it that I was kind of like, oh, maybe there's something to this record.

[John Tottenham]

Oh, yeah. You know, there was an event here in this city not long ago that I Appeared at, on occasion, a wine event. Yeah, it was a wine. It was called Irregular Wine Tasting. It took place at the Echo, and it was hosted by this Englishman, in fact, full fan, Julian Davies and cousin Roy, who, you know, Liz Garrow's boyfriend, who was the fall road manager on several of their tours during the. During the sort of country on the clique here and through whom I actually met Smith briefly. Cousin Roy. Yeah. He drove the Ford around the country for several years on their American tours. Anyway, he hosted the Irregular Wine Tasting. And that was the theme song. Five hundred dollar bottle of Wine.

[Evan]

That's great.

[John Tottenham]

Yeah.

[Evan]

When was that?

[John Tottenham]

Oh, it was about. Probably stopped about 10 years ago and went on for about five years while it lasted.

[Evan]

We should do that somehow.

[John Tottenham]

Yeah, I mean, the guy's a wine expert connoisseur, and so he would get certain bottles of wine and he pair.

[Evan]

Them with fall records.

[John Tottenham]

He paired them with various things. Like, for example, he had me reading my Inertia Variations one time and he paired that with Wine.

[Evan]

That's great.

[John Tottenham]

And he would pair all kinds of things with it.

[Evan]

What a genius idea.

[John Tottenham]

It was great. I wish it was still going on.

[Evan]

You know, I should revive that idea. I wish I knew more about wine. I have the same amount of knowledge about wine as I do about jazz, which is to say some.

[John Tottenham]

Yeah, that's a good comparison.

[Evan]

I'm not like, oh, yeah, this and that player. I know where he was born.

[John Tottenham]

Well, I mean, there's. I think I know a lot more about Chaz than wine because I don't have a taste for wine. I just don't understand it. I understand tequila and whiskey, but not wine.

[Evan]

Well, I don't really get how when people talk about wine, they're like. Like this tastes like. And then they'll say these other things.

[John Tottenham]

It's very pretentious.

[Evan]

How can you. I mean, it's like easily clowned upon, but, like, I want to know what that means. But then when I actually drink wine, I'm just kind of like, I can't get past knowing that it's just grapes and that it's like, yeah, that's there. But it's kind of hard to, like, force myself to imagine that it's. It's a cigar box or whatever they say, you know, or that this is like wet leaves and clay, like, I guess. But mostly I'm just thinking about different types of grapes that might have literally actually caused this.

[John Tottenham]

I don't know anything about wine, but I can tell the difference between Night Train and Thunderbird.

[Unknown]

A $500 bottle of wine. A $500 bot.

[Evan]

Wine.

[Unknown]

A fly bottle dollar bottle of wine.

[Evan]

That's all we get for beer.

[Unknown]

Whip them all the time. Give them a five bottle bottle of wine. That's what we get most of the time.

[Evan]

A $500 bottle of wine. A $500 bot. Which one is worse?

[John Tottenham]

I don't know if Night Train even exists anymore. I remember when I first came over to this country, I didn't understand what those were. Just very colorful and seductive sounding names you were chucking in. Just like Thunderbird. Yeah, because I heard him in Tom Waits songs or rock and roll songs. I wanted to drink Thunderbird wine. I got over here, I got a bottle of it and sat in the park in San Francisco and drank a whole bott bottle one afternoon.

[Evan]

What was that like?

[John Tottenham]

I don't know. It was disgusting. It's very syrupy and thick, you know?

[Evan]

Yeah, it's horrible. I mean, I've never even probably had more than a sip of it ever.

[John Tottenham]

A Night Train. Of course there was. Well, yeah, there was a. I don't know. Man, you don't see those wines around so much anymore.

[Evan]

Have you ever seen that movie Street Trash?

[John Tottenham]

Street Life?

[Evan]

No. Street Trash.

[John Tottenham]

What's that?

[Evan]

No, it's called.

[John Tottenham]

Not that Seattle film. No, it's not. It's called no Street Wise Street.

[Evan]

It's not Street Wise. Street trash is a 1987 like splatter gore movie where the conceit is that. That some guy in a. The basement of a convenience store finds this dusty old box of bum wine that looks like Thunderbird. And everybody who drinks it just liquefies into a puddle of grotesque neon goo. And like there's a scene that's infamous where like in like the ruins of a building, this bum like drinks the wine and then wine, he drinks the bullshit. And then he like liquefies into the toilet and his like arm rips off as he's like. He accidentally like flushes himself down the drain.

[John Tottenham]

Wow. I've never heard of it.

[Evan]

Yeah, it's like a really, you know, classic sort of gross out movie. Be well, but it's kind of funny that like there is a. A Thunderbird horror movie. Basically. It's called Viper in the.

[John Tottenham]

That's a good one.

[Evan]

Yeah. See, like, look at the bottle.

[John Tottenham]

Oh, wow. Anyway, some people, I just don't. My palette is not suited to it.

[Evan]

500 bottle of wine. I like that. It's sort of just a one idea and it's a strong idea. Just like it's Kind of a good idea for a poem. It's a loaded image. It's a loaded concept. That's what you get for being around him all the time.

[John Tottenham]

Yeah, that's what you're right.

[Evan]

And it was Craig Leon, apparently.

[John Tottenham]

Well, so the story goes, but there are several stories about it. Yeah, Mes drank it and told Brisk it tasted like shit then. The price of the bottle today is $8,000.

[Evan]

What was the bottle?

[John Tottenham]

1982 bottle of Petrus Pomerol.

[Evan]

Okay. Means nothing to me. Quote. I like to look at the albums like Diary. Not one for nostalgia.

[John Tottenham]

Well, people always say that.

[Evan]

Yeah. But I think that this record kind of proves it. Like, there's a few songs on here that seem pretty diaristic between. Oh, yeah, Reckoning and this song having this direct story connection to just things that peeved him.

[John Tottenham]

Well, you know, we missed out on one of the best songs.

[Evan]

Well, what?

[John Tottenham]

City Dweller.

[Evan]

We. That's next.

[John Tottenham]

That's maybe the last one.

[Evan]

No, there's. Shut up after that.

[John Tottenham]

City Dweller is great. It's one of those sort of vibe songs.

[Unknown]

Victor Vestage of the Euro War.

[John Tottenham]

Random. It's a Good Life, Bound to Tyrant.

[Evan]

Gone.

[Unknown]

Christian Gang Ch.

[John Tottenham]

Is now in.

[Unknown]

Dismantle All Head Stuck in Bloody Plant Pots.

[Evan]

Production wise is. It's worth noting that this record has that definite sort of like. Kind of overstuffed degree of like 90s like, fusion club rock signifiers with the production. It's. It's very like. Like. I guess, sort of like acid house influence influenced. Is that the genre that they're sort of grabbing from?

[John Tottenham]

Yeah, because the. Isn't it? Yeah. It does sort of bear some resemblance to what was.

[Evan]

I don't. I'm not this song.

[John Tottenham]

Certainly.

[Evan]

I know exactly as much about wine as I do trans music. Yeah. Just like techno, too. It's like techno, jazz and wine. I think I know exactly. Exactly the same amount about.

[John Tottenham]

What about the Stone Roses.

[Evan]

What about the.

[John Tottenham]

You like them?

[Evan]

I don't know.

[John Tottenham]

I don't either.

[Evan]

I remember being. I don't know how old and like, when they were announced to be headlining Coachella that one year I had never heard of.

[John Tottenham]

Oh, they got back together, too.

[Evan]

This was like a long time ago. No.

[John Tottenham]

Yeah. City Tour is a good one. It's apparent has some basis in Manchester's bid to host the Olympics three years later.

[Evan]

Did they?

[John Tottenham]

No, they were denied once again. Yeah. This record came out in 93. The 1996 Olympics were. Or maybe it was the 2000 ones they were bidding for. Yeah, they bid it unsuccessfully in 92, 96 and 2000 and finally landing a sort of booby prize for the 2002 Commonwealth Games. Fascinating.

[Evan]

Yeah, yeah, the Olympics. I don't really care. Too young. But I like this one. I'm curious which ones from this record show up on a pass Gone mat that compilation.

[John Tottenham]

I've heard of it cuz I like.

[Evan]

That compilation a lot. Oh, that's like the 90s compilation. Kind of like honoring this period from 99. It's got my. Yeah, gee, I don't see. So behind the counter is on it. Hey student. I think that's it from this record.

[John Tottenham]

Oh yeah. Free range, touch sensitive, old and money.

[Evan]

F. Old and money. That's a good one.

[John Tottenham]

The original is great.

[Evan]

Yeah. But the COVID is kind of like really good.

[John Tottenham]

Yeah, it's great.

[Evan]

It sounds like it's past your bedtime.

[John Tottenham]

Mine.

[Evan]

Shut up. That's the next song.

[John Tottenham]

Past your bedtime.

[Evan]

No. Shut up.

[John Tottenham]

Oh yeah, right.

[Evan]

Well it's a cover.

[John Tottenham]

I don't know the original, honestly.

[Evan]

Whoa, you don't know the original?

[John Tottenham]

No.

[Evan]

What do you mean you don't know?

[John Tottenham]

I don't know the Monks. Really.

[Evan]

They only have one album, John.

[John Tottenham]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean I know a few of those songs I. I've never really listened to.

[Evan]

Oh you really, you must.

[John Tottenham]

Is this awful?

[Evan]

Yeah.

[John Tottenham]

Is this. It's crucial. Right?

[Evan]

That's actually a huge mistake. I can't believe. And it's.

[John Tottenham]

And it's a compilation, right?

[Evan]

Basically. I mean it's. It's. It's an album. But no, we have to do a.

[John Tottenham]

Monks episode actually, since I've never heard. Listened to him. I don't know.

[Evan]

I think so. I think once you have spent some time with it, it's worth talking about. Cuz the Monks is. There's a reason why Marky Smith was obsessed with them. The Monks is like kind of this on unexplainable thing. But it was a bunch of American GIs who got like produced by these like sort of bizarre style gurus of like post Weimar Germany. Like these sort of like Bauhaus, those like German Steve Jobs types who were like we are going to make you into a sexy band. And there were just these American himbos who were like okay. And then they're playing in this band where it's like banjo and like. But it's kind of like the Velvet Underground but like before that. And they're just like going really hard and like making a huge amount of mischief in Hamburg and they're forced to dress like monks. With full on tonsures by these guys who are like their creative directors. And as soon as it became clear that they weren't gonna make any money, those guys just dipped. But they like had made this album that just ended up being.

[John Tottenham]

And they all had monk haircuts too.

[Evan]

Yeah, fully. They did. And like those German like handlers basically told them, like, you cannot go outside together unless you are always dressed as this. Like wearing black robes and like capes. Black suits, black capes, full monk hair. And playing this like bizarre aggressive of pseudo political proto punk music in the early to mid-1960s in Germany.

[John Tottenham]

It's not on Spotify.

[Evan]

No, it's not. For some reason. Just the sum of it is like some like. It's like a collection of.

[John Tottenham]

Yeah.

[Evan]

Demos or something that's there. But the one album. Just buy it like it's one record, however expensive it is to get it on vinyl. It's like kind of worth the price because you got only one. No, I don't have it.

[John Tottenham]

It's from. What the.

[Evan]

But yeah. Anyway, I explained all that just to bring the point home that, like, there's a reason Marky Smith covered them twice and was a huge.

[John Tottenham]

What was the other one?

[Evan]

There's Shut up here and then there's Black Monk Time. But man, I. I want to just talk about the monks. Anyway. How many stars out of three do you give Middle Class Revolt? We didn't talk about the COVID The COVID is by Pascal Legrasse, who did a lot of the great covers, did their best covers. I mean, I think that the Shift Work cover is one of my favorite album covers ever. It's a good cover, though.

[John Tottenham]

Yeah.

[Evan]

An unforgettable image. There's four little guys shaped like tops on the COVID That's all you really need, a cover.

[John Tottenham]

It's an unforgettable image, kind of because it's like I. If you told me to reproduce it or remember it, I never would have been able to do so without. I would have actually said those four shapes were parallel with each other. Not.

[Evan]

Anyway, no, it's like a diamond.

[John Tottenham]

Yes, exactly. I wouldn't have remembered. I think it's rather a forgettable colour. Well, in a peculiar colour scheme. Also with that beige.

[Evan]

It's yellow, I guess. Anyway, it's like an hour and 10 minutes less forgettable now.

[John Tottenham]

Joe, come in.

[Unknown]

Shut up, don't cry. Shut up, don't cry. Shut up, don't cry.