Jay Leno

Summary

Podcast Summary: Joy, a Podcast with Craig Ferguson Featuring Jay Leno

Episode Information

• Title: Jay Leno
• Release Date: May 27, 2025
• Podcast: Joy, a Podcast
• Host: Craig Ferguson
• Produced by: iHeartPodcasts

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Introduction

In this engaging episode of Joy, Craig Ferguson sits down with legendary comedian and former Tonight Show host Jay Leno. The conversation delves deep into their careers in comedy, the dynamics of late-night television, and personal anecdotes that highlight their experiences in the entertainment industry.

Early Careers and Stand-Up Experiences

Jay Leno begins by discussing his early days in comedy, particularly his experiences performing stand-up in Boston before moving to Hollywood.

• Jay Leno [03:07]: "I never met another stand-up comedian [in Boston]. Occasionally, comedians would come to like the Chateau de Ville in Framingham."

Craig and Jay reminisce about working with iconic performers such as Tom Jones, Perry Como, and Dion Warwick, emphasizing the rich comedic environment of their early careers.

• Jay Leno [06:33]: "I worked there with Tom Jones, Perry Como, like Dion Warwick… All comics are pretty nice."

Dynamics of Comedy in Show Business

The discussion shifts to the collaborative nature of comedians supporting one another in the industry.

• Jay Leno [08:18]: "I find comedians help other comedians. I don't find it to be this [cutthroat]."

Jay shares anecdotes about helping fellow comedians like Billy Gardell, illustrating the camaraderie that exists among entertainers.

• Jay Leno [09:03]: "I feel good that I helped him. He felt good. They got to do a corporate date and paid a lot of money and it was fun."

Comedy Styles and Audience Interaction

Jay and Craig explore different comedic styles, particularly the balance between clean and edgy humor tailored to various audiences.

• Craig Ferguson [10:00]: "Are you a musician? Do you play anything?"
• Jay Leno [10:05]: "I played trumpet, but then I realized I couldn't talk and play trumpet at the same time."

They discuss the importance of reading the audience and adapting jokes to fit the setting, especially in corporate environments where sensitivities are higher.

• Jay Leno [19:05]: "I booked myself into Oral Roberts University once just to see if I could play it. They said, we don't like sex jokes. We don't like drug jokes, politics…"

Reflections on Late-Night Television and the Industry

Reflecting on their respective tenures in late-night TV, both comedians share insights into the challenges and rewards of hosting major talk shows.

• Jay Leno [25:14]: "I started guest hosting in '86, '87."
• Craig Ferguson [26:07]: "It's a job that's very hard to do for one night. ... a lot easier than one night."

Jay touches on the evolution of late-night shows and the impact of streaming services on the traditional format.

• Jay Leno [74:12]: "The saddest thing about late night is everybody doing it is really good. The trouble is you have these streaming services…"

Personal Anecdotes and Stories

The episode is rich with personal stories that showcase the personalities and experiences of both Craig and Jay.

• Jay Leno [33:06]: "I told her she couldn't have been nicer, came out, gave the kids a couple of albums, signed. I mean, the sweetest person you could imagine."

Their stories range from interactions with famous personalities like Sean Connery to memorable moments with peers such as Rodney Dangerfield.

• Jay Leno [61:00]: "I had Rodney on the show… he was a wonderful guy, and he was a smart guy."

The Role of Kindness and Intelligence in Comedy

Jay shares his philosophy on kindness and intelligence, highlighting how these traits interplay in effective comedy.

• Jay Leno [30:39]: "I always equate kindness with intelligence. I've never met a kind person who was not intelligent."

This perspective underscores the importance of empathy and understanding in crafting humor that resonates universally.

Conclusion

The episode concludes with reflections on the lasting friendships and professional relationships that have shaped their careers. Jay emphasizes the enduring bond between comedians and the mutual respect that fuels their ongoing collaborations.

• Craig Ferguson [71:00]: "We should do it again. He's a great guy, too. Arsenio. You guys are great."
• Jay Leno [73:49]: "We did. Yeah. Nobody's making that kind of money anymore."

Their heartfelt exchange encapsulates the essence of Joy—finding happiness and fulfillment through meaningful conversations and shared experiences.

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Notable Quotes:

• Jay Leno [08:18]: "I find comedians help other comedians. I don't find it to be this [cutthroat]."
• Jay Leno [19:05]: "I booked myself into Oral Roberts University once just to see if I could play it. They said, we don't like sex jokes. We don't like drug jokes, politics…"
• Jay Leno [30:39]: "I always equate kindness with intelligence. I've never met a kind person who was not intelligent."
• Craig Ferguson [71:00]: "We should do it again. He's a great guy, too. Arsenio. You guys are great."

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This detailed summary captures the essence of Craig Ferguson and Jay Leno's conversation, highlighting their mutual respect, shared history in comedy, and thoughtful insights into the evolution of the entertainment industry. Whether you're a fan of late-night talk shows or simply interested in the dynamics of comedic careers, this episode offers a rich blend of humor, nostalgia, and wisdom.

Transcript

[Craig Ferguson]

This is an iHeart podcast.

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[Jay Leno]

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[Jay Leno]

I don't know if I'm in the.

[Craig Ferguson]

Right career ew or the right relationship.

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[Craig Ferguson]

This is me, Craig Ferguson. I'm inviting you to come and see my brand new comedy hour. Well, it's actually, it's about an hour and a half and I don't have an opener because these guys cost money. But what I'm saying is I'll be on stage for a while anyway. Come and see me live on the Pants on Fire tour in your region. Tickets are on sale now and we'll be adding more as the Tour continues throughout 2025 and beyond. For a full list of dates, go to thecraigfergusonshow.com See you on the road, my dears. My name is Craig Ferguson. The name of this podcast is Joy. I talk to interesting people about what Brings them happiness. Here's my favorite car collector. I think he had a late show at some point. I can't remember.

[Jay Leno]

Here he is, Jay Leno.

[Craig Ferguson]

All right, we're up. So here's the thing.

[Jay Leno]

Oh, so we're not. No video, eh?

[Craig Ferguson]

No. Well, here's the thing. Why no video? Cuz this is the reason why I don't do it. Because people like you. Some performers want so much makeup and hair done.

[Jay Leno]

Oh, yeah, not me.

[Craig Ferguson]

No, not you. So I tell you what I'm doing right here, right now is I'm enjoying a cup of coffee. Now, I know that you don't drink coffee.

[Jay Leno]

No, don't drink coffee. My first cup of coffee I've ever had was Seinfeld on Comedians in Cars getting coffee. It was awful. I don't like hot liquids.

[Craig Ferguson]

Now, see, this is. But this is. What. What about soup? Does soup come into it?

[Jay Leno]

Soup is just a way to screw you out of a meal.

[Craig Ferguson]

Fuck you.

[Jay Leno]

Here you go. Oh, here's a bowl. It's wet. Thanks.

[Craig Ferguson]

All right.

[Jay Leno]

So anything other than a wet bowl, you have something I can chew? Thank you.

[Craig Ferguson]

Well, hold on a second. Is it because it's a hot liquid or because it's just a liquid?

[Jay Leno]

It's not a meal.

[Craig Ferguson]

Does it have to be a meal?

[Jay Leno]

A cup of coffee?

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, but you won't have soup because it's a drink.

[Jay Leno]

Well, plus, I don't like hot liquid.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, if you don't like. What about gazpacho? Or maybe a cold borscht?

[Jay Leno]

No, horrible.

[Craig Ferguson]

So really it's about liquid. Do you ever drink any liquids at all?

[Jay Leno]

Yeah, I drink a lot of water, a lot of fruit juice, a lot of orange juice.

[Craig Ferguson]

You drink beer?

[Jay Leno]

No, never had a beer in my life.

[Craig Ferguson]

You never had a beer?

[Jay Leno]

Never a beer.

[Craig Ferguson]

You never drink any of the hooch at all?

[Jay Leno]

No, no, no. I have nothing against it. I have no interest in it. I was always a designated driver. I was always a car guy. So to me it's like, that's true.

[Craig Ferguson]

Because you love the car.

[Jay Leno]

I'll drive you jerks home. And that's fine.

[Craig Ferguson]

All right, so no you. So very few liquids.

[Jay Leno]

No liquids, lad. And no soup.

[Craig Ferguson]

Well, see, I'm worried that, you know, look, none of us are getting younger, Jay.

[Jay Leno]

Right, right.

[Craig Ferguson]

So at a certain point in life, soup is kind of gets attractive to the older gent. That's all I'm saying.

[Jay Leno]

I'm 73 and I haven't been there yet.

[Craig Ferguson]

So I'm just saying, you know, your soup years may be Coming up, man. Get used to it.

[Jay Leno]

Let's hope not.

[Craig Ferguson]

All right, so listen, your mother was Scottish? Aye, and my mother was Scottish. And my wife has a theory about stand up comedians.

[Jay Leno]

Yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

That their mothers have to be Scottish or they have to be cold with bad boundaries. That's what makes it.

[Jay Leno]

No, my mom was not cold. My parents were very good that way.

[Craig Ferguson]

Did she have good boundaries?

[Jay Leno]

I don't know what you mean by boundaries.

[Craig Ferguson]

Well, you know, neither do I, but, you know, a lot of people talk about them.

[Jay Leno]

Well, you know, how long are you in Hollywood? An hour now. And you've got boundaries?

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, I mean, I'm just wondering.

[Jay Leno]

See, I never heard any. You know, it's so funny. Where I grew up, I was the laziest person that anybody knew. I come here. Oh, Jay's the hardest working guy. No, it's just where you grow up, it's that, you know, you grew up in New England with Silas Marner and Ethan Throme and all these depressing books about, first you work hard, then you die, then you got rheumatoid arthritis.

[Craig Ferguson]

You die after you get rheumatoid arthritis and then you die.

[Jay Leno]

Whatever it is. Yeah, it's just, oh, life is awful, you know. So then you come to Hollywood and all the lights are bright and it's sunny outside.

[Craig Ferguson]

What age were you when you came here?

[Jay Leno]

I started coming here, I guess when I was 19, 20, something like that. Not in 1920.

[Craig Ferguson]

1920, when you were 19 and 20. But here's the thing. You came out here to do comedy because you're Boston. Right, right, right. So did you ever do stand up in Boston before you came out here?

[Jay Leno]

Oh, yeah. You know, that was a great thing because growing up in Boston, I never met another stand up comedian. Occasionally comedians would come to like the Chateau de Ville in Framingham. Was one of those.

[Craig Ferguson]

Sounds fancy.

[Jay Leno]

Well, yeah, it's one of those places like near a mall and it's got like a fountain in front that is fancy. I worked there with Tom Jones, I worked there with Perry Como, like Dion Warwick, you know, all those acts from that era.

[Craig Ferguson]

Sure, yeah.

[Jay Leno]

Yeah. And that was. And that was an opening act that.

[Craig Ferguson]

Was literally wanted to. You wanted to be a stand up that young at 19 and 20 years old.

[Jay Leno]

Oh, yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

You gotta be fucked up in some way then because nobody wants to be a stand up.

[Jay Leno]

Why wouldn't you want to be a stand up?

[Craig Ferguson]

Well, back in the day, nobody want. I mean, nowadays people want to do it, of course, as far as.

[Jay Leno]

Well, it's Interesting. When I watch tv, all comedians were middle aged Jewish men like Rodney, like Henny Youngman, all those guys, all the Catskill comics. And then all of a sudden Robert Klein came along, who was a huge influence on me. Robert was about 10 years older than me and he was a midd. Parents weren't wealthy, but he didn't grow up during the depression. Just talking about the same kind of things I talked about. And then Carlin at that point had just about 1970, early 71, released his class clown album, right. And I used to do George's routines in my head and I'd do them silent, to myself. And then I'd add my own jokes at the end, right. So when I would go to audition at places, I would stand backstage, like I would get into it by doing George's thing. And then when I walked out, I'd say, you know, when I was in school, you know, I didn't do any of George's material, but I just to get a rhythm to it, you know.

[Craig Ferguson]

That's interesting.

[Jay Leno]

Yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

And were you friendly with George?

[Jay Leno]

Yes, I knew George from the very beginning. He was always very nice to me. So was Klein. You know, all comics are pretty nice. Steve Martin helped me get this Tonight Show. Steve Martin told Johnny about me. I showed Johnny about Ellen DeGeneres. I find comedians help other comedians. I don't find it to be this. I mean, there are obviously some cutthroat people around and that's not unusual, but it's not the norm. You know, as a comic, you can't do every job. So if I couldn't get something, I'd go, oh, you should. Like there's a gig I do in Rhode island at the Audrain Museum. It's kind of like Pebble Beach East. It's a car show and I've hosted it for the last four or five years. But I'm out of material at this point. You know, I said, oh, let me bring Billy Gardell in. So I brought, you know, Billy Gardell.

[Craig Ferguson]

Of course I know Billy. He's a great guy. Yeah.

[Jay Leno]

Wonderful comic.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jay Leno]

And he did a great job. He killed it. I felt good that I helped him. He felt good. They got to do a corporate date and paid a lot of money and it was fun. So I'm so.

[Craig Ferguson]

So wait, how long you and I have been friends? For a while. You didn't think of putting me up for the fucking corporate.

[Jay Leno]

No, I never, never thought of that. What the fuck? Actually, you want to do it next year?

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, I'll do it next year.

[Jay Leno]

I'll get it for you.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah. Okay. Cause let me just say, it's on the East Coast. I like the idea.

[Jay Leno]

I really like cars.

[Craig Ferguson]

You do?

[Jay Leno]

Like, you gotta work reasonably clean. Don't work super clean.

[Craig Ferguson]

No, I did gigs with you. I know she deal.

[Jay Leno]

Yeah, let's do it. I'll do it.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah. I don't mind working clean. The older I get, in fact, the easier it gets to work clean. I've noticed that.

[Jay Leno]

Well, you know, I find when you're 25 and you say the word pussy, girls go, ooh. We said, oh, my God. When you're 65.

[Craig Ferguson]

That old guy said. And you know what? They got a point. Yeah, exactly.

[Jay Leno]

It is. It's true. It's true. You know, it's fun to grow into meteor act.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Jay Leno]

Because my point of view is always from an adult observing things, how stupid this is, or whatever it is. You know. And as a young person, it didn't work quite as well as it does now. Now you can be a bit curmudgeonly.

[Craig Ferguson]

I was struck by your standup mike when we were working in the Midwest this summer. Like, you throw down, man. You know, like a full solid hour. And like, the material is fresh.

[Jay Leno]

Well, you try to have a joke every six to nine seconds. That's. That's, I think, really, you see, because.

[Craig Ferguson]

I don't think of it like that. I don't.

[Jay Leno]

I mean, everybody's different. It's just different. To me, it's like a music show. You open with your hits. Boom, boom, boom, joke, joke, joke, joke, joke. And then in the middle, you do the comedic version of a ballad. You tell a story. Oh, you know, my wife and I, we go to this place, and there are little humorous jokes along the way as opposed to, you know, that's very interesting to me.

[Craig Ferguson]

Cause I do think of it in kind of musical terms as well. It's kind of a musical performance. Are you a musician? Do you play anything?

[Jay Leno]

I played trumpet, but then I realized I couldn't talk and play trumpet at the same time.

[Craig Ferguson]

That's a terrible instrument for you to play. You should play like a guitar.

[Jay Leno]

I was in fourth grade at the time.

[Craig Ferguson]

Jay, I'm gonna tell you something right now. You know I adore you, but. Cause you played trumpet in fourth grade doesn't mean you played a fucking trumpet.

[Jay Leno]

Right, exactly. That's why I quickly got rid of it.

[Craig Ferguson]

But you do. See, I think a lot of the standups that I like are also. They think in musical terms of what they do.

[Jay Leno]

You know, the most musical comic I can think of is Franklin and Jai. You know, Frank.

[Craig Ferguson]

I don't know.

[Jay Leno]

African American comic. Very big in America. He had an album up 30, 40 years ago. He moved to Australia. He's a jazz comedian. He plays jazz and he does comedy. He has. One of my favorite bits. He talks about the guy. Oh, there was an Olympic guy from some country, and he ran in the marathon, and he came last. He was dead last. And he. Just as he's running, he's going. I mean, I've been training, I've been working on. I could have sat on the couch and watched tv. I'd still be last. I mean, it's just. There's a lot more to it than that. He does a lot better, but it's just very funny. And he just thinks in jazz terms, you know, I was fortunate. I got to work with all the great jazz musicians. Miles Davis, Stan Getz, Mose Allison Ahmad, Jamal Rahsaan, Roland Kirk, all these guys. And with jazz, there was a place called Lenny's on the turnpike in Boston, okay? And that was a jazz club. And real hardcore Buddy Rich, real hardcore jazz.

[Craig Ferguson]

That's the real deal.

[Jay Leno]

You went to see that and the first time. Cause usually I used to play strip to. Hey, but you suck. You suck, man. People just scream. So you really didn't know if you're any good or not, Right? But with the jazz audience, the men that walked on stage, silence.

[Craig Ferguson]

Did they nod and snap their fingers when you.

[Jay Leno]

No, not quite that much. But they would listen, you know, like Miles's audience, any of those audiences. I went, oh, this is really, you know, Rossan Roland. I don't know if you ever heard of him. He might be before your time.

[Craig Ferguson]

It's possible.

[Jay Leno]

Rossan, Roland Kirk. African American guy, blind, right? But famous because he could hold a note indefinitely, and he could play two instruments at the same time. He could play the sax and the clarinet at the same time. And that's crazy.

[Craig Ferguson]

How is that even possible?

[Jay Leno]

Cause he could breathe through his nose, okay? But he was black, so. And we played primarily African American audiences placed like the Sugar Shack in Boston. And he would go on stage and he'd go, I'm gonna bring a young brother. A brother's gonna tell it like it is. You know, he'd give the whole thing like I was black, you know?

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah. Please welcome Jay Leto.

[Jay Leno]

You know? And I come out and go, what? Everybody go, what? I go, shh. Don't say anything.

[Craig Ferguson]

He doesn't know.

[Jay Leno]

And he thought that Was the funniest thing, right? He loved doing that routine every night with people. Bring on a young brother. Tell it like it is.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Jay Leno]

Woohoo. You know, black audiences. I get all worked up, you know, and then I walk out, like, what's this? You know, don't say, here's the thing.

[Craig Ferguson]

Cause you talk about that right now, like, you even telling that story to me right now, like, people are going to get bent out of shape because of, you know, you mentioned race of any kind and this, you know, different races of any kind. And people are already on the balls of their feet looking for a fight, which I kind of. I'm getting a little tired of it. I think everyone else is, too. Does it?

[Jay Leno]

Well, I had the best one happened a couple months ago.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Jay Leno]

My wife, Mavis and I were at a little Chinese restaurant in Westwood. It's got like 14 tables, if that many. And the mother runs the cashier and takes the orders, and the dad's the cook. And it looks like the kids or cousins. It looks like a family. So we got our food. We're sitting there, and you're kind of. It's right next to ucla, in fact, it is ucla, right? And a lot of students around the table. I just said to my wife, God, this woman's really working her ass off. And a girl in the next table, or young woman at the next table goes, she's a server. And I said, I'm not mad here, but I do think before I speak, I said to myself, is she a waitress? No. Is she a stewardess? No, she's a woman. First, let me say, this woman is working her ass off. Now, if I had said, the server is working her ass, you probably would have said, oh, she's a woman.

[Craig Ferguson]

Right? You should have probably just said, hey, toots, you're doing a great job in that way.

[Jay Leno]

No, see, I don't. But to me, it's like. Cause I don't really want to. I mean, first of all, I get annoyed because I think, oh, do you really think I'm being sexist by saying that? I would say this man. I didn't say girl. I didn't say chick. I didn't say waitress. I said this woman. I mean, what is wrong with it? And she had to admit, well, now you're right. If I had said server, isn't that demeaning? Doesn't that mean that's all she is? Isn't she a woman?

[Craig Ferguson]

You're defining someone by their job.

[Jay Leno]

Yeah, I said, so. But she was so anxious to Jump on this.

[Craig Ferguson]

Well, I think it's a little kind of fashion that the young folks went through for a while that they wanted to.

[Jay Leno]

It's fine.

[Craig Ferguson]

You know what? When I was their age, I was a punk rocker. I was a pain in the ass, too.

[Jay Leno]

Oh, yeah. I know. When you think about how stupid people our generation was, the one burning down the bank of America building and.

[Craig Ferguson]

Oh, my God. Yeah.

[Jay Leno]

You remember the sds to make up for racial injustice, they should kill every third white baby born. I remember some.

[Craig Ferguson]

Oh, my God.

[Jay Leno]

I remember some SDS guy saying that early on.

[Craig Ferguson]

Okay.

[Jay Leno]

You know, just crazy talk. Just crazy talk. So to me, a lot of it is like, I never use the word bitch on stage. I know women don't like the word, so I don't use it. And to me, you know, it's funny because I do a joke where I see the women where I say, you know, Northwestern University did a study about the differences between men's brains and women's brains. This is amazing. Listen to this. And you see the women go. You know, they kind of like. It seems women's brains are located in their head. Who saw that coming? And then they laugh more than it is funny because it's not an insult. It's not the usual.

[Craig Ferguson]

Well, I never understood anyone. Look, to me, an audience doesn't have a race or a gender or anything like that. It's an audience is an audience. And you don't know.

[Jay Leno]

But. No, but an audience does have. The best audience is a fully male, female, black, white, Asian, integrated audience where they all totally. For example, you know, if you haven't done a corporate event where it's all men.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yes, I have.

[Jay Leno]

Unless it's all football jokes or gun jokes or something.

[Craig Ferguson]

No, it's the worst.

[Jay Leno]

It's terrible.

[Craig Ferguson]

I did a corporate event once up in Paple beach, and I used to do this bit about Tom Cruise. This is a long time ago. Cause I actually am a big fan of Tom Cruise. But it wasn't the most flattering piece.

[Jay Leno]

Really?

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, it was a piece of stand up. And it was just after he jumped on Oprah's couch. And I was dicking around with that. And I was doing this piece and this piece, it was a good bit. And every night it killed. I said, well, I'll do it at this corporate. It was a clean bit. It was nothing bad in it. And at this corporate event, I did this Tom Cruise thing. Died on his ass, like really badly died. Nothing. Chirp, nothing. Crickets. And I come off. I went, wow, that Was a rough crowd. And he went, somebody should probably tell you. It's Tom Cruise's law firm. It was his lawyer.

[Jay Leno]

Oh, that's so funny.

[Craig Ferguson]

Oh, my God, it was funny. Do you ever. Cause you do a lot of the corporate gigs.

[Jay Leno]

Yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

And you work clean. I've seen you. You don't work. You don't work squeaky clean.

[Jay Leno]

No. PG 13.

[Craig Ferguson]

Right. So you work clean. You don't. You drop the F bomb and you don't do that kind of thing. But it's kind of. It's grown up. Right. It's an adult show, but it's not an adult traffic show.

[Jay Leno]

It's not balloon animals.

[Craig Ferguson]

Right? No, it's definitely not that. Do you ever run into it with. Cause I've had people say to me at corporate gigs, you gotta be really careful here. Do they ever say that to you now or everybody trusts you?

[Jay Leno]

Well, I always ask, I go, is this like a born again thing? Is the chairman a born again guy or something?

[Craig Ferguson]

Would you be able to cope with that if. So if he was.

[Jay Leno]

Yeah, I can work. You know something? I booked myself into Oral Roberts University once just to see if I could play it. And they said, look, we don't like sex jokes. We don't like drug jokes, politics. Everything else is fine. And they were fine. They just didn't want any dick jokes.

[Craig Ferguson]

Right.

[Jay Leno]

Fine.

[Craig Ferguson]

That's okay. So that's probably not one I should be doing.

[Jay Leno]

No, no, no.

[Craig Ferguson]

Actually, I don't do a ton of those jokes.

[Jay Leno]

No, no, no. But what I mean. And to me, a guy is paying me to do a job. I don't quite get guys that goes. So I told them to go, shove it. And I did what I. Yeah, I don't get.

[Craig Ferguson]

I gotta agree with you. I don't understand that. What are you like, then don't take the gig.

[Jay Leno]

Like, to me, I know the. You know, to me, an audience is like an orchestra. You want to get a nice rolling laugh going. I remember I had a joke. I'm sorry, I don't remember the joke, but it was when Hillary Clinton was running for president, and also so was Reggie Jackson and a bunch of other people. And I had a joke about each candidate. And the Reggie Jackson joke was a political joke. It wasn't about him being black. It was just. Okay, that got a laugh. When they got to the Hillary joke, men would always go. And I just hated the guttural laugh I got out of it because I realized, oh, they think I'm making fun of her because she's a woman candidate as opposed to just a candidate. So I just dropped the joke. I took it out and it kept it. And the audience is much better. It just kept a nice even, you know, you got a nice rolling boil going with the crowd. Yeah. And then you do something that's overly sexist or overly whatever.

[Craig Ferguson]

No, I know what you mean. I felt it as well. There are gags that the joke's not worth it.

[Jay Leno]

Yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

You know, La Salle used to always say that to me. Peter La Salle was my boss in late night. And I know you know Peter because he did the Tonight show for so long. And whenever I did a joke that was like near the knuckle, and he would say, is it worth it? Is it really worth it, that joke? Is it that good? Cause he would say, you know, jokes like a house or a car, there's always another one. You can do another joke.

[Jay Leno]

Right?

[Craig Ferguson]

Right when I first started, I was like, no, it is worth it. Very quickly. I was like, nah, you're right. Fuck it. We'll be here tomorrow night. We'll do that.

[Jay Leno]

Yeah. To me, you just sort of learn to read your audience.

[Craig Ferguson]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with.

[Jay Leno]

A message for everyone paying big wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good.

[Craig Ferguson]

In this world, stop with Mint. You can get premium wireless for just $15 a month. Of course, if you enjoy overpaying, no.

[Jay Leno]

Judgments, but that's weird. Okay, one judgment.

[Craig Ferguson]

Anyway, give it a try. @mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment of $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required. Intro rate first three months only, then.

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[Craig Ferguson]

Hello, this is Craig Ferguson and I want to let you know I have a brand new stand up comedy special out now on YouTube. It's called I'm so Happy and I would be so happy if you checked it out. To watch the special, just go to my YouTube channel, he Craig Ferguson show and it's just right there. Just click it and play it and it's free. I can't. Look, I'm not going to come around your house and show you how to do it. If you can't do it, then you can have it. But if you can figure it out, it's yours. Let's talk a little bit about late night though. I bring that up because of Peter when you took over on the Tonight Show. So when was that? Early 90s? 91.

[Jay Leno]

I started guest hosting in 86, 87.

[Craig Ferguson]

Right. How long would a guest host gig be? Would be like a week. Would it be like a night?

[Jay Leno]

No. Well, you have one night.

[Craig Ferguson]

Right. And Johnny used to do that a lot towards the end of his run. Right. He would bring people in.

[Jay Leno]

Yeah. And there were like six or seven guys that were being Considered.

[Craig Ferguson]

Did you ever have guest hosts when you were doing it?

[Jay Leno]

No, I had to die.

[Craig Ferguson]

No, once.

[Jay Leno]

I did it once. Cause Katie Couric wanted to switch seats. NBC thought it'd be a fun thing to do, so we did it one day.

[Craig Ferguson]

I did the same thing with Drew Carey.

[Jay Leno]

I didn't quite get that.

[Craig Ferguson]

No, I didn't get that.

[Jay Leno]

No. To me, when you have guest hosts, it just means more work for the staff.

[Craig Ferguson]

Right.

[Jay Leno]

Because then they have to put the monologue together instead of you. They have to figure out, can this guy talk to a guest and go over every single note?

[Craig Ferguson]

It's a job that's very hard to do for one night. It's a lot easier to do it for a couple of years than one night. I get that. Is that something? Because it's funny. You grew up in an era. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I'm right. You grew up in the era when Johnny was the gold standard and he was the king. So did you have aspirations to be the Tonight show host, or was it just like. Cause you were a comic, you kind of drifted into that direction.

[Jay Leno]

You kind of went that way.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Jay Leno]

It was the only job in show business that I liked.

[Craig Ferguson]

Right.

[Jay Leno]

Because I like to be around show business as opposed to in it, you know?

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah. I think I saw a movie with you in it once. Like, years. Years.

[Jay Leno]

Oh, that been some terrible. But to me, was that jungle movie.

[Craig Ferguson]

Did I see you in a.

[Jay Leno]

Bill Maher in the jungle?

[Craig Ferguson]

That's right. He's Bill in the jungle.

[Jay Leno]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

I can't remember what the movie was. I've done some real clunkers as well.

[Jay Leno]

I mean, I just like you because, like I say, I don't want to be Charlie Sheen, but I enjoy being around Charlie Sheen. I enjoy watching Charlie crash and burn and then get. And not in a mean way, just in a funny way.

[Craig Ferguson]

You want to be around the circus folk, but you don't necessarily have to. That's right.

[Jay Leno]

That's right. And I used to enjoy. That's what's great about being your host of it. I don't have to go to the party. To me, it's really. Hey, what happened to the party? Oh, my God, I can't believe that. You know, and you hear the story or whatever might be. So.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, I felt that way about. Did you watch the movies when people were on the show?

[Jay Leno]

I always watched the movies.

[Craig Ferguson]

See, I never watched the movie.

[Jay Leno]

Oh, I always watched.

[Craig Ferguson]

I had a completely different. What was your philosophy then? That you wanted to know the movie be. To be able to talk about it.

[Jay Leno]

I think people like it. I know a lot of guests, if you made the effort to read their book or whatever it is they had.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Jay Leno]

They would really be impressed. I mean, they would write you a note saying, I can't believe you went to my movie.

[Craig Ferguson]

No, I never. I never did. I did the complete opposite.

[Jay Leno]

That's funny.

[Craig Ferguson]

No, but just because. Well, you were clearly much more successful than I was. But what I felt about it was, if I know about it, then the two of us are talking about a movie we've both seen. If you're on Plug in a movie and I haven't seen it and we're talking about it and you're telling me about the movie, I'm like, oh, that sounds like a movie that I want to see. And that was my philosophy. And Pete used to fight me on it a lot. He's like, nah, he is Tom Hanks. He's a big star. You gotta go see his movie. I'm like, but if I've seen the movie, then I'm gonna talk to him about the movie that we've both seen.

[Jay Leno]

Yeah, but you talk about what you liked about it or what the, you know, the character delineation or whatever it is they did.

[Craig Ferguson]

Come on.

[Jay Leno]

No, I enjoyed that part of it. I would try. I'd watch a movie. If I got to a part I thought it was particularly challenging for the actor. I remember that. And I'd bring it up in the interview, and they, oh. Oh. You know, because everybody in show business is insecure.

[Craig Ferguson]

Oh, sure.

[Jay Leno]

If they think. I remember once, you know, publicity agents are my favorite. I wanted to see a guest. I'd say, the guest is but one of those sort of obnoxious. I said, hey, man, pretty good job. Really enjoyed you in the movie. And the press agent came. Pretty good. Pretty good. I go, what? It was great. You didn't say great. No to me. I meant really, that means.

[Craig Ferguson]

Oh.

[Jay Leno]

I went like, whoa, pretty good, man. Nice job. And then I said, nice job. And I said, I generally enjoyed it. Well, it didn't sound like guys yelling at me. Oh, shut up.

[Craig Ferguson]

I bet you I can tell who this, like, off the microphone. I bet you I can tell you who it is. But the thing is, I think about it as well, like, the show business, because you said everyone in show business is insecure. And I think you're right. And I think that a lot of the people in show business, they're crazy damaged, you know, unemployable. In any other business industry.

[Jay Leno]

That's true.

[Craig Ferguson]

And they're all a little nuts. And the question that I got asked, I don't know if you got asked this, but if there was somebody on who's super famous, Tom Hanks was on, or so people will always say, were they nice? Was he a nice guy? Was she a nice woman? Are they nice? Well, they were nice to me because they're doing a talk show and they're professional. But the truth is, why is that important to people? I don't know.

[Jay Leno]

Well, I'll ask you a question. Did your opinion of Woody Allen movies change after you heard all the things.

[Craig Ferguson]

Oh, the stuff about Woody Allen.

[Jay Leno]

Yeah. I mean, did it change your opinion? Did you think.

[Craig Ferguson]

Well, it's a good question, but it's a little tricky for me because I wasn't a huge fan anyway. I was.

[Jay Leno]

I wasn't a huge fan either. But I like someone. I like to think. Like, to me, it's funny when I hear someone tell an exaggerated version of a story where they did something mean but didn't mean to. But if I know they're really mean.

[Craig Ferguson]

But they're really mean, yeah.

[Jay Leno]

Then I go, oh, no, that guy really did mean to hurt somebody's feelings, you know? So to me, yeah, I think it does matter. I always equate kindness with intelligence. I've never met a kind person who was not intelligent. And by intelligent, I don't mean mathematically smart. I mean just the idea that a kind person can read another person's face and realize where to go with it, how to be sensitive, how to whatever. To me, that's intelligence. To me, I find really cruel people and mean people. They might be book smart, but they're not intelligent. Does that make any sense to you?

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, of course it does. It's actually. It's a very nice way of looking at it. I think that that's true. But if I look at someone, like, here's someone I don't know. I know nothing about them, but I'm a fan of his work. Ozzy Osbourne, right?

[Jay Leno]

Right.

[Craig Ferguson]

Ozzy Osbourne. He's like, you know, he's a game changer of a singer in a band. Hugely important. I don't need him to be nice. Did he bite the head off the bat or did he not bite the head off the bat? I don't know. If I was, you know, like, if I was heavily involved in the world of bats, maybe it would be.

[Jay Leno]

Well, but let's go back. Did the Woody Allen stuff Change your opinion of his work?

[Craig Ferguson]

You know, did it. You know what? It probably did, if I'm honest. I think you're right.

[Jay Leno]

Fighting a bat is different than, you know.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, well, you know.

[Disney Advertiser]

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[Jay Leno]

Yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

So what did you do? Did you bite the head off a bat maybe? Right. Or did you actually definitely marry your stepdaughter?

[Jay Leno]

Exactly, exactly.

[Craig Ferguson]

I hear what you're saying. These are extremes, all right? But what I think is kind of weird to me is that maybe not are they nice, but the idea that everyone's got to be like a Sunday school teacher.

[Jay Leno]

No. But I'll give you an example of someone. It's a way to get here. I'm not a big road rage guy. And one day I'm here in la, you know, the guy behind Beep Beep Beep Beep, you know, like. Oh, he wants to go. So I boss said, go around me, go around me. He goes around me, gives me the finger, yells, you know, fuck you. So I came up to the next light and I look at him, I go, let me guess. What are you? 55, bald, fat, divorced, your kids hate you, hate your job. What was your greatest day? Was it in high school? And the guy starts crying, oh, Jesus. And he goes, yes, you're right. I went, oh, yeah. I realized as a comic, you have the ability to size people up pretty quickly. And I'm hitting. Everything I said was exactly. So I said, look, pull over, pull over. So I get on mic, I get in his car, I go, look, I'm sorry. He goes, you go, hey, I got kids. I got two girls. They don't speak to me.

[Craig Ferguson]

Oh, my God, this is a terrible story.

[Jay Leno]

So I said, are they. Do they like Taylor Swift? They love. I said. I said, look, I got Taylor Swift on the show on Wednesday. Okay? Why don't you bring your two girls? Would they like to. Oh, God. Would they? Like I said. I said, okay. So. And Taylor Swift, I told her she couldn't have been nicer, came out, gave the kids a couple of albums, signed. I mean, the sweetest person you could imagine.

[Craig Ferguson]

I've heard that.

[Jay Leno]

Just a lovely, lovely person. She didn't have to do it. I said, I had this guy and I cut him off. And I was so mean to him. I mean, the guy literally had a breakdown.

[Craig Ferguson]

Oh, my God. He goes, but you know what's interesting about that story, which. I like that story. I like it for you, I like it for Taylor Swift, and I like the fact that it happened. I wonder if that guy, if that happened Today, that guy would have a phone in your face, record you slicing and dicing them and then posting it on the Internet.

[Jay Leno]

Maybe, maybe not.

[Craig Ferguson]

More than likely, you know, maybe not. I got a 55 year old.

[Jay Leno]

You know something? You can only live in the time you live in.

[Craig Ferguson]

That's like.

[Jay Leno]

It's like, could Muhammad Ali beat Rocky Marciano? You know?

[Craig Ferguson]

All right, you want to take that?

[Jay Leno]

No.

[Craig Ferguson]

All right.

[Jay Leno]

You know, that kind of thing. So.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, I know, but I mean, you're right. I want to complain about it a little bit though, because I feel like the filming of everything, it's like we volunteered to be in Big Brother. It's not even like someone. We're all fighting on each other.

[Jay Leno]

Funny thing about Big Brother because people always say, big Brother is watching. Blah. You know, to me, probably the greatest day in media history was the Rodney King trial. The Rodney King thing. Here's Rodney King coming along. According to the police, he had seven people in a Hyundai going 117 miles an hour. To all exaggerated, okay? That's what the news said at seven o' clock, I believe that same evening, the guy who shot that footage, who chose not to give it to the news, who put it out on the Internet, right? And then suddenly people saw raw, unfiltered news. And you saw this guy get the crap beat out of me because he didn't look like he did anything that terrible. And then you realize, because what happens, you give it to a news guy and they'll go. The editor will go, well, this is inflammatory, people. This is. Cause let's just say it's like when I grew up in Boston, a woman was never raped. She was accosted, right. You know, they never tell you what I said. Now, you live in a world where you get your news unfiltered exactly as it happens.

[Craig Ferguson]

Have you traveled a lot outside of.

[Jay Leno]

The U.S. oh, I traveled outside the U.S. yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

You do shows in.

[Jay Leno]

Well, I do England and no, I don't really work in. Where have I been? Well, I've been to Italy. I've been to Saudi Arabia a few places. Yeah. I don't find it totally different. Everybody speaks English.

[Craig Ferguson]

Well, yeah, to you, but I mean, if you're doing a corporate gig in Italy, people will speak. It's like I was talking to Tomas, right? You know, Tomas, who works with me. Right, right, right. So Tomas, who, you know, produces this podcast, he also. I love Italy, right? I love Italy, right? And Tomas says to me, you love Italy? I said, yeah. He says, no, he, Tomas, has managed heavy metal bands he has to work in Italy, right? He said if you had to work.

[Jay Leno]

In Italy, oh, my God, it'd be.

[Craig Ferguson]

A very different idea, Harley. It's like. Cause it is that kind of thing. When people say, you know, when they say, oh, I love Scotland so much, you Scottish people, you're so friendly. I went, yeah, try being Scottish, whether another Scottish person and see how fucking friendly they are.

[Jay Leno]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

It's a thing. So listen, let's talk a little bit about the cars.

[Jay Leno]

All right? What do you want to know?

[Craig Ferguson]

Well, I want to know how it started. Was it your dad? Was it your family? No, I grew up.

[Jay Leno]

I grew up in a rural area, and they were always broken snowmobiles and abandoned cars. Not so much now. Now, when you abandon a car, it's.

[Craig Ferguson]

Got software, doesn't work.

[Jay Leno]

Yeah, it's got a computer. In the old days, people would abandon a car because the distributor broke. All right? That's an easy enough fix to somebody who has a little bit of mechanical knowledge or things of that nature, you know, a car from the teens, 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, you could leave for 100 years, and you probably get it started pretty easy, right? Because mechanical things break, electrical things erode, right? And you look at a relay box, it might be shiny, but you can't tell what's going on inside it, you know? But you can look at a fuel pump and go, oh, oh, here's the gear. The gear is broken or the keyway is busted, you know, so they're easier to fix.

[Craig Ferguson]

So that was what drew you in, was the mechanical nature of it, the fact that you could fix them when.

[Jay Leno]

They were anything that rolls, explodes and makes noise. You know, when I was, like, 11, somebody abandoned a Renault 4cv, which is like the French version of the Volkswagen, right? And we had three acres behind our house, and my mother would watch us through the kitchen window, and we'd just drive around. And so, of course, now the parents would be taken away and you'd be put in foster care, and, you know, it would be. It's a whole different story.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, but you just said it's better now, didn't you?

[Jay Leno]

Yeah, well, in some ways it's better.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah. All right.

[Jay Leno]

Yeah, yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

So you started playing around with it, but as you go older, right? And you start like, you.

[Jay Leno]

Here's the thing. Here's the main facts of it. We are in an objective business. Some people like you, some people think you suck. Some people think you're better than me. Some people think it better than you. But when you Have a car and it's broken, and now it's running. No one can say it's not running. You know, you can say it's still not funny, even if other people are laughing and you're not. But no one can say the car's not running.

[Craig Ferguson]

You think that's why old comedians. Well, a lot of comedians are into cars because of that same reason you think.

[Jay Leno]

Actually, most comedians are not into cars.

[Craig Ferguson]

Hold on a second. Jerry's into the. The cars. Yeah, I'm in the cars a little bit.

[Jay Leno]

I know a million guys. I remember, you know, Rich, Jenny called me one time. He goes, oh, he was the funny. He had the best gay marriage joke back in the days when it was illegal.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Jay Leno]

He would go, gay guys have the ideal life. Larry, I'd love to marry you, but it's against the law. Imagine you could say that to a girl. Oh, I'd love to marry you, honey, but it's against the law. Oh, I used to love that bit. And, you know, it wasn't offensive. It was because that was.

[Craig Ferguson]

He was. He wasn't.

[Jay Leno]

Anyway, he calls me one time. He goes, hey, what's the best car to get girls? I go, well, I said, I. I only have one girl, and I've had her for, like, 26 years at this point, so I couldn't tell you that. But what do you like? Well, I don't know. A Corvette's good. Can you get girls with Corvette? Some girls like Corvettes. Some girls think, how old are you? You have a Corvette? You know, I said, so he gets a Corvette, and of course, he knows nothing about what it's capable of, what it could just always be. He just got it together. What's the best car to get girls? It's just my favorite thing.

[Craig Ferguson]

It's funny because I've never really understood that as a thing. I guess maybe back in the day when. Hey, baby, do you want to sit in the rumble seat or something?

[Jay Leno]

A rumble seat? Yeah, back in the day.

[Craig Ferguson]

Back in the day, in the rumble.

[Jay Leno]

What day was this? 1913.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, it was the 1920s in Scotland. So it's funny, Richard, Jenny, Rich was one of the last gigs he had, actually, or one of the last things I remember doing. He was on my show.

[Jay Leno]

Oh, yeah?

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah. And it wasn't long after that that he, you know, that he killed himself. But I don't think it was anything to do with my show. But I can't be sure. I met him in Australia when I was starting out. I was at the Melbourne Comedy Festival. And he turned up, he had these two very glamorous looking women on each arm. And he walked into the gig that's like, how does the guy do that? Now I realize he must have had a Corvette. That's what it was.

[Jay Leno]

But really funny.

[Craig Ferguson]

Oh, yeah, super funny.

[Jay Leno]

Oh, he had very fast, quick, fast. Very New York. You know, he had that New York attitude. Yeah, yeah. No, he was really just a great, great comic. That was a sad, sad story.

[Craig Ferguson]

Well, it's an interesting thing, and Rich is a good kind of example of it, is that the Persona that he had on stage was very different to who the guy he was. Rickles was very like this as well. People used to think Rickles was like. When he was on, he was the incel guy. But you remember Don? He was a pussycat.

[Jay Leno]

Oh, yeah. Very nice guy. I love Don. Don was great. Don was great. But even Don, you know, the network would censor him and he would. I remember one time he came on and, you know, Kevin. And Kevin Eubanks, he'd go, and there's Kevin. Kevin's people are in the parking lot stealing hubcaps. And I go, no, you. I go, don, they don't have hubcaps anymore. You. You know, it was interesting. I remember seeing Rickles once. And Rickles never swore.

[Craig Ferguson]

That's right.

[Jay Leno]

Okay. But when he did racial stuff, you know, and the Puerto Rican guy is this. And the black guy is this. And younger audiences kind of like, hmm. And older people laugh hysterically. And then he had a joke with a punchline with him saying shit, you know, just like that. And the young people laughed, and the old people went, ooh. You know. So it was really two different audiences. Yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

It's funny, I never heard him say the do the shit joke.

[Jay Leno]

Well, it was one of those things where, you know, it leads up to it. And then he said, yeah, I can't remember what the bit was.

[Craig Ferguson]

It's funny. When I first. When I first met him, Peter La Salle introduced me to Rickles. And I said, will you come on the show, Mr. Rickles? And he went, I gotta be honest, kid, I'm gonna wait and see if you're a hit, okay? So when he came on the show, I said to him, am I a hit now? He went, no, but I felt sorry for him.

[Jay Leno]

No. Yeah, it was funny.

[Craig Ferguson]

He was a strangely lovely.

[Jay Leno]

A lovely guy. And he grew up in the era when the mob guys really controlled it. And to the day he died, he would never tell a story. I go down. Let me ask you about. No, no, no, I know. Like, I remember we went to Dantana's once and I said, let's talk like the mob. Yeah. I mean, he would just not even joke about it.

[Craig Ferguson]

He festival as well as Larry King. Remember Larry was kind of. Oh, yeah, yeah, he was. He was connected in Miami at one point.

[Jay Leno]

Yeah, that was. Yeah, the old school guys.

[Craig Ferguson]

Do you ever run into that in Boston when you were a kid? Because.

[Jay Leno]

Well, I'll tell you, they had people there. I'll tell you a story. One day I get a call from Sinatra, had an agent named Jack Gilardi. They go, jack, Sinatra wants you to play this Italian thing. Some. Some benefit it at a country club in Chicago. It's Italian American thing. And you gotta work clean. You understand? You gotta work clean. There's gonna be a priest there, you know. I said, yeah, okay, I'll work clean. Okay. So I get there, I get up and I do my little thing. I get some laughs and thank you very much. And I sit down. So they introduce this guy. I'm not gonna say his name. Cause his kids are still alive. A real gangster, right? Okay. And he gets up there. How you doing, everybody? Hey, what the fuck's going on? You know, like that. And the priest goes like this. And the priest goes, what? Hey, Father, shut the fuck up.

[Craig Ferguson]

Oh, my.

[Jay Leno]

He's just screaming and. I mean, the veins are popping his head. When you see a psychopath just lose it. He goes, you got your ten grand a paper bag, right? Father, shut the fuck up. Just scrap. And the priest is holding his bag with the ten grand in it like this, you know, and he's just. And guys are holding him like this motherfucker. He's just.

[Craig Ferguson]

He's going after the priest.

[Jay Leno]

Oh. Just screaming at the guy, you know. So I'm like, oh, Jesus. And the crowd is like, oh, my God. Because this guy.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah. That's a way to lose a crowd if you. If you go psycho on. On. It doesn't even have to be the priest, just anybody.

[Jay Leno]

As I remember. As I remember the story. They. They told the heartwarming story. Some teenagers had broken into his house.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Jay Leno]

And stolen something. Okay. They found them two weeks later. And they had been skinned alive. Somebody hung them by their wrists, stripped them, and run a straight razor from their arms down to their toes and just peeled off. Peeled off a layer of skin until these guys slowly blended it. And it was like, oh, okay. So that was like, oh, scary, you know? So I'm sitting there and just watching this whole thing play out. And they Take him away. Right? So the lady says, he goes, j, come here, come here. He goes, he says, you play golf? No. Well, come on, come on, come on. Come, come with me. So he and I are in the golf cart. He goes, you know, we asked Stallone to come to this. You know what he said? He said, no. And I said, well, you know, he's very busy.

[Craig Ferguson]

He wasn't busy. He wasn't busy.

[Jay Leno]

He fucking explodes again, you know? And it's like I'm sitting here.

[Craig Ferguson]

I'd never play golf with a guy who had skinned people.

[Jay Leno]

Yeah, exactly. And I'm not doing it again.

[Craig Ferguson]

Do you play golf?

[Jay Leno]

No, No, I don't think you were a golf guy. If you could play it in 20 minutes, maybe.

[Craig Ferguson]

Well, and also if the, you know, the carts are shit. I mean, if it was. Maybe if you got a.

[Jay Leno]

Maybe if you had a Corvette. Yeah, Corvette. But I mean, but the point of this was just most people think, you know, my favorite thing. And the French Connection was the best movie. Whenever you watch tv, when a guy, Bob, put the gun down. I know you don't want to shoot me, okay? And the guy always puts the gun down. And Cannon or Magnum or whoever it is, takes the gun away from him.

[Craig Ferguson]

That's pretty good. I mean, I can't believe I got that.

[Jay Leno]

Remember the French Connection with the transit cop? The French guy was running from Popeye Doyle. He's on the train, he's got a gun. And the guy goes, look, I know you don't want to shoot me. You don't want to. He just shoots him like four or five. Just blows the guy away. Go. Okay, thank you. That's what really happens in real life. All these people think are going to be a hero because they know he's really a good guy. No, there are evil people in the world. There are bad guys out there, you.

[Craig Ferguson]

Know, But I'm still, I'm still happy about you bringing up Cannon. Cannon is one of the best.

[Jay Leno]

Oh, canon. Oh, yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

I loved Cannon, you know, like, he was like a 300 pound detective. He was like 5 foot 8 and he would run after teenagers.

[Jay Leno]

No, no, what it was. He would park in the alley in his big Lincoln and the crook would run towards him and he'd open the, the door, the driver's door, Bang. And that would hit them and, you know, and knock them out. Yeah, yeah, man.

[Craig Ferguson]

I. I think it's maybe time for a Canon reboot. If Billy hadn't lost all that weight, it had been. He'd have been perfect.

[Jay Leno]

I know he'd be perfect.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, but he's all thin and gorgeous now. That's the problem.

[Jay Leno]

He does look great. He lost.

[Craig Ferguson]

He does look great.

[Jay Leno]

Like 178 pounds. He lost.

[Craig Ferguson]

How much he lost?

[Jay Leno]

That's unbelievable. He lost a whole person.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah. That's crazy.

[Jay Leno]

Yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Jay Leno]

But he looks. He looks great. And you know something? I was telling this the other night, a lot of guys that used to be fat aren't really funny anymore because their whole Persona was based on being fat and being. But you know something? You look at him now, you're thinking, well, he's always been a skinny guy. Right. Because it doesn't reflect in anything that he does. I mean, he's really.

[Craig Ferguson]

He was a graceful man. I mean, we talked. It was funny. We talked ages ago. Cause he was a big fan of Laurel and Hardy. I was a big fan of Laurel Hardy.

[Jay Leno]

Yeah. I love Laurel and Hardy.

[Craig Ferguson]

Oh, my God. And one of the things about Babe Hardy was that his grace, you know, the lightness of his feet, the kind of the.

[Jay Leno]

It was funny, you know, Louie Anderson, the same thing. Louie Anderson. Louis had great dignity about it. He was right, you know, he'd move his hands very slowly and fold them in his lap and you never saw him sweating on stage, you know, but he always had those bits about his mom didn't like cats because they licked the butter and all that kind of stuff, you know?

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[Craig Ferguson]

You know, the guys you're talking, we're talking about, you know, like Louis was one, Gilbert was another one, Gilbert Gottfried was another one. Like real kind of idiosyncratic characters. Look, I don't pay a lot of attention to the young comics right now. I don't know if you do. I don't see a ton of that. I see a lot of the same, like, you know, you know, a lot of not as much eccentricity of performance. Maybe there's some really good ones. I mean, I watched Michelle Wolf on Netflix.

[Jay Leno]

You see her, you see her new special? Yeah, you know something, I thought it was terrific.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, me too.

[Jay Leno]

I thought she was really good. Because I thought, you know, when she done all the White House stuff, it's.

[Craig Ferguson]

Like, oh, that's a terrible gig. You've done it, I've done it.

[Jay Leno]

It's a tough gig. Well, but I mean, it's all politics. It's like, it's. How stinging can it be? And to watch her latest one. Oh, these are real jokes.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, she's really good.

[Jay Leno]

Yeah. And really. Yeah, she's really funny. And yeah, I really enjoyed it. And the one that's done in three parts or four parts, that's the one I'm talking about. Each one is a 20 minute segment. And I watched it and I thought, boy, she's really, really good. And it's a shame that she got beat up so badly over.

[Craig Ferguson]

Well, you know, it happens with the White House. Like, Colbert got beat up pretty badly for what he did at the White House as well. But ultimately it worked out for him. And I think that it's one of those weird gigs. The White House dinner. I remember when I did it, I talked to you before I did it. Do you remember that?

[Jay Leno]

Yeah, yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

Cause you were. I remember you said to me, it's just not about you. Just remember it's not about me.

[Jay Leno]

Right, right.

[Craig Ferguson]

And I talked to you and I talked to Drew Carey. Cause Drew had done it as well. But I thought it was a hard gig. I thought it was like a really tough corporate gig.

[Jay Leno]

Well, it's an impossible gig. Yeah. Because everybody's looking in the mirror, you know.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, that's right. It's like, no, it's really not about.

[Jay Leno]

And when you have somebody like Obama, who is a really good comic.

[Craig Ferguson]

Good. Stand up. Yeah.

[Jay Leno]

He goes on first. Well, now you follow him.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, I didn't do it with. I did it with George Bush.

[Jay Leno]

I did it with Reagan. I'll tell you what I did. First time I did, it was Reagan. So I'm backstage and this general comes in. He goes, hey, hey, hey. You the comic? Yes, sir, I am. Jay Lem. He goes, I'm so and so. This is my commander in chief. You understand that? This is my boss. He is the leader of the free will. You don't insult him. You don't. He's just. And he's poking me in the chest, you know. And I said, well, okay, yes. You understand? Yeah. And he leaves. Okay. I'm thinking, oh, man, I'm starting to change jokes, you know? And then. And then all of a sudden, George Schultz comes in. Remember him?

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Jay Leno]

And he's really drunk. He goes, lie down, come here. When you get up there, you nail Ronnie's ass to the wall. You understand me? I go, but that guy tell me, screw, he works for me. I'm the defense guy. You make fun of that thing on Reagan's head. You think that's his hair color? You think that's his real hair color? And I go, I don't know. No, you're good. I said, what do I do? I remember my opening joke was, I want to congratulate Nancy Reagan. I'm winning the Humanitarian of the Year award. I'm glad she beat out that conniving little bitch, Mother Teresa.

[Craig Ferguson]

That's a funny joke.

[Jay Leno]

Oh, and Reagan fell off the chair. Oh, he thought I said, well, then I knew I was in. I knew it was okay, but. But, yeah, but it is. It's an impossible gig.

[Craig Ferguson]

It's really hard. Is there any. Cause I've got a couple of jokes. One of them was at the White House correspondent at dinner that I never told that I was gonna do the joke right to the last minute. And then I did. And I have two in my life that I've never done. I'll tell you them in a minute, but do you have any that you thought I was gonna do this joke?

[Jay Leno]

You know what's so funny? The only jokes I remember are the ones that made an impression. Cause as a comic, you have things that put a notch in your brain. You just remember. Like that first joke I told about the Robin Hood thing and all that. So you remember everything. I remember being five years old and my mother taking me to. Cause we didn't have babysitters then. She just took me everywhere. So we went to my Aunt Nettie, my Aunt Edith's house on the Italian side. And it's all women drinking wine. And I'm sitting on the floor and I was looking at the women. I said, hey, mom, why do women have humps like camels? Woo.

[Craig Ferguson]

Listen to that one, Kathy.

[Jay Leno]

Oh, my God. And they're all drunk anyway and they're all screaming. I'm thinking, what did I say? I said something about humps. And I always remember that because it got it. So as a comic, I think when you say something and it gets a laugh, you just, for the most part, pretty much remember it because.

[Craig Ferguson]

Well, I'm talking about the ones that you made a decision not to tell the joke for another reason.

[Jay Leno]

Yeah, I can't remember the joke. So I can't remember.

[Craig Ferguson]

I have two I'm gonna tell you them. One was a White House correspondence dinner where there was a lot of trouble. It was the very last Bush and Cheney, and all those guys were up there. Rumsfeld was around, all that stuff. And I was gonna say at the start of it, it's great to be up here. We won't see all these guys together in one room again until the trial. And I thought that was a pretty good joke. And they said to me, probably a good idea. It wasn't the White House. It was one of my own guys said, probably a good idea. If you don't do that joke, People are still a little, you know, uncomfortable. I said, it's a pretty decent joke. And the other one, I'm kind of still thinking that maybe I should have done it and maybe I shouldn't. And here's what it was. I had a book come out. My autobiography come out. Right. And it was the same week as Ted Kennedy. His biography came out. He had just died that week. And Mackenzie Phillips book came out where she talks about having sex with her dad.

[Jay Leno]

Oh, right, right.

[Craig Ferguson]

And there were all three of us vying for the number one spot in the New York Times bestseller list. And I knew I wasn't gonna get it. Cause Ted Kennedy had died. And Mackenzie Phillips talks about having sex with her dad.

[Jay Leno]

Right, right.

[Craig Ferguson]

So I was doing this event in Union Square at Barnes and Noble, and I wanted to do this joke. And my publicist says, that's a great joke, and I beg you, don't do it. I went, okay. But the joke, I was gonna come on stage and say in my book, mackenzie Phillips, Fox, Ted Kennedy, I didn't do it. And I kind of wish I had done it, but I'm kind of glad I didn't do it.

[Jay Leno]

No, no, that's a funny joke.

[Craig Ferguson]

I think so. But, you know, the tempers were flaring at the time, and it was probably a good thing.

[Jay Leno]

Yeah, I always did that. Because there are things you want to say. I'm not gonna say who it was, but I had someone on who was very sensitive, and they'd just gotten glasses, and they had a big nose. And I said. And I wanted to say, oh, did the nose come with the glasses? But I knew they'd be.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, that'd be hard. Yeah.

[Jay Leno]

Yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

Well, you can. You know, you don't want to hurt someone's feelings. We're not in that game. You don't want to feel bad.

[Jay Leno]

That was the thing about being a talk show. You got to know when I was a comedian, when I did the monologue and I was a host, when I did the Cause a lot of times.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, I totally agree with you.

[Jay Leno]

You win the battle and you lose the war, you know?

[Craig Ferguson]

Totally, totally. I always felt as well, and this is why I love doing your show, is because I felt like I was. You took the word host, like, literally, like, I'm here to host. I want you to feel good. I want you having a good time. I want you to enjoy yourself. And that's how I took that from, you know, it was on your show. I was like, no, that's how I want to be. Cause I had done other shows where I felt, I've got to wash my ass here. You know, I'll put one foot wrong and I'm going to be made a fool of. And I never felt that when I was working with you. And I hope that anyone who was on Milo's Joel felt the same way.

[Jay Leno]

Right.

[Craig Ferguson]

It was like, you know, I'm not here. And funny enough, I was talking to Kristen Bell the other day, who was like my number one all time. You know, she was like on the show every other week. She was great. You know, everyone has a guest like that. I'm sure you had him. And I'm gonna ask you who it was in a minute. But I was talking to her and she said, well, it was weird for me because I always thought she was a great improviser. And she said, no, I hate that. I always like knowing what I'm gonna do. I was like, that's weird. I always thought you loved improvising and that's why you always did my show. And she went, no, I just trusted you.

[Jay Leno]

Right.

[Craig Ferguson]

And I was like, oh, that's great. It makes me feel good.

[Jay Leno]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

And so tell me, who were your go tos in late night?

[Jay Leno]

You know, Terry Bradshaw was pretty funny.

[Craig Ferguson]

Ah, he's pretty funny. Yeah. Remember he had a talk show?

[Jay Leno]

Yes, that's right. That's right.

[Craig Ferguson]

He had a daytime talk show or something like that.

[Jay Leno]

But, you know, Terry was the best one ever. And you could not have planned this. He comes out and he goes, jayla, I heard that monologue. That monologue sucked. That was the worst joke I've ever. He's just trashing on me.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Jay Leno]

And I said. I said, you know, I could shut you down with four words. No, no, you can't. I can't what? I said, your fly is open. And he goes, and his pants were wide open.

[Craig Ferguson]

Oh, my God.

[Jay Leno]

And he looked down and he fell off the chair. He's laughing so hard. He just felt so st. He was a great one. I had him 30, maybe 54 times.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Jay Leno]

And the comics are always good. You were good. Jerry was good. Robin Williams, of course, was good. Yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

Robin kind of took over. I used to like that. You just hand him the reins.

[Jay Leno]

Yeah, right, right. You just let him go. You couldn't really interact with him. But you know what my favorite, too, was with Rodney. Because when I would watch Rodney with Johnny, Johnny would be the straight man. Tough week, Rodney. Oh, Johnny, I tell you, this week is all right, but last week, it was cold, really cold outside. Oh, Johnny was so cold.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, I know. I get it.

[Jay Leno]

When I would get Rodney out. Oh, that was my favorite thing to. Been a tough week. Oh, Jay, I tell you, it's all right now, but last week, I got to tell you. Did I tell you my Rodney story about. No, I'll tell you Rodney's story. I've told this story, but not to me. I had Rodney on the show.

[Craig Ferguson]

Okay. Rodney Dangerfield.

[Jay Leno]

Rodney Dangerfield, 2004. And Rodney's a little older, a little more frail, and he comes up and he's doing the show. He's doing his standup. I notice he's sweating more than, you know, as someone who watches comics and you know them personally, you can tell when they're a little off. You know, I could tell when Jerry's killing, but it's not his normal super hard kill. It's just a real. And Rodney, he would always touch his tie. This time, his hands were kind of hurt. He's just a little off.

[Craig Ferguson]

There are tails for sure.

[Jay Leno]

I'm watching it. So I said to Debbie, producer Debbie Vickers, I said, deb, I said, I think Rodney's having a stroke. Call the cops. Call the paramedics. She goes, you think? I think he is, yeah. Okay. So he finally sits down. Jay, I would tell you I'm all right now, Jay, but last week, you know, and he's. And he's got the handkerchief, and he's really sweating, but he gets through it, and he does fine. Okay, now the show ends. Just as the show ends, Rodney goes to his dressing room, and the paramedics come in, and I say. So I go in there and I say, rodney, I think. Think he might have stroke. I didn't have a stroke. Well, he did have a stroke.

[Craig Ferguson]

You saw that.

[Jay Leno]

Well, he was just off. He was just off. So they took him away in an ambulance. He went to the hospital, and he didn't live much longer than that. And then his wife Joan calls me and says, you got to come to the hospital. Rodney's In a coma. Okay? I get there and Rodney's lying there, his eyes are open. And she says, jay. The doctor says, rodney can hear us, but he can't respond, you know, so I'm telling him how much we love him and how great he was to all his comics, you know, letting us work Rodney's club and. Yeah, Rodney Dangerfields and all, blah, blah, blah, blah. So his wife Joan says, rodney. She goes, jay, put your finger in Rodney's hand. She goes, rodney, if. You know it's Jay, try and squeeze his finger. So I put my finger in Rodney's hand like this. And I went, rodney, that's not my finger, okay? And Rodney's shoulders go like this. They just moved. And Joe goes, he moved, he moved.

[Craig Ferguson]

He moved, he moved.

[Jay Leno]

And then the doctor comes at me, he moved. And he died right after that.

[Craig Ferguson]

But you gotta laugh.

[Jay Leno]

Yeah, we gotta laugh out of Rodney.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Jay Leno]

You know, and it was kind of. I mean, I don't say it to be mean or even be funny, just as a life well led, you know, and he was a wonderful guy, and he was a smart guy.

[Craig Ferguson]

I never got to meet him, you know.

[Jay Leno]

You never met Rodney?

[Craig Ferguson]

Nah, I never met him.

[Jay Leno]

Well, you know, the whole thing about being an aluminum siding salesman, you know, if comedy doesn't make you. Well, he did. He was aluminum siding salesman, but he was a great aluminum siding.

[Craig Ferguson]

He was.

[Jay Leno]

He was so successful, he quit show business to sell aluminum siding. Then at age 44, his face finally grew into his act. He began to look like the sad sack that he was. And that's when he really became famous. Cause, see, I remember Rodney before. He had no respect. When he used to do bits and he would do bits. I remember one bit he had. I can't recreate it, but this is the essence of it. He goes, welcome to Flight 265 at TW Airlines. He'd be the pilot, you know. He goes, we're flying over right now over to Indiana, right at desolate part. If you look down on the left side of the plane, you can see the remains of Flight418 that crashed right there on the ground. Bob, you were with me on that one, weren't you? And it was just like a. Just hilarious. Just like a funny. Almost like a very. Bob.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, it sounds a bit new Hardy.

[Jay Leno]

Yeah. And then later he got into doing bits. Do you ever see a movie called the Projectionist? It was done, I think, in 69. No, Rodney was in that play. He was good. He was good. And back to school. One of the Funniest to me, that thing about, oh, in the union. Yeah. Remember, the guy goes, I'm going to build an imaginary factory. Oh, yeah. How are you going to pay off this guy and pay off that guy? You know, and just so funny. Yeah. He was really the funniest guy. And I knew Rodney 40 years. I have no idea if he's a Democrat. I have no idea if he's a Republican. All we ever talked about were jokes.

[Craig Ferguson]

That is true with a lot of. He had the essence.

[Jay Leno]

He had quick jokes. One of my favorite Rodney jokes is I walk past the strip joint. He said, topless and bottomless. I went in, There was nobody there. I mean, it's a great topless, bottomless joke.

[Craig Ferguson]

There was nobody there. Yeah, that's a great joke.

[Jay Leno]

Then the other joke he had, I was like, my doctor said, I need a semen sample. I need a stool sample. I need a urine sample. So I g. Underpants, you know, just those kind. Just those stupid kind of jokes. Yeah. And just. Just hilarious. Just hilarious.

[Craig Ferguson]

Were you ever intimidated by anyone that you ever. You ever have a guest and you. You actually get nervous? I. I had a couple, but you ever have any when you think, oh.

[Jay Leno]

My God, one day I had Roger Moore on. So I'll tell you about Sean Connery forever. Roger Moore. And he would tell you, I said, when you go on vacation, we didn't go to India. You go to India quite often? Go to India? Yeah. That's quite a trip. Oh, not really. Well, how often do you go? Oh, well, going every weekend. Every weekend to India? Yes. Yeah. I mean, that's. It's not a long flight. No, no, no. We drive. Really? Drive. You drive to India From. From England? No, no, from California. He was trying to say Indio. Indio. You know. Oh, it's just like a whole wasted segment.

[Disney Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

You're trying to talk about India.

[Jay Leno]

Sean Connor is my favorite because Sean Connery's the only guy I have heard my mother refer to in a sexual way. That's a real man, Jamie.

[Craig Ferguson]

Oh, yeah. No, the women were different. I introduced my wife to Sean Connery, and her breasts lit up, and I didn't even know breasts could do that.

[Jay Leno]

That's right.

[Craig Ferguson]

Amazing. Sean Connery probably went through life thinking that women's breasts lit up all the time.

[Jay Leno]

That's right.

[Craig Ferguson]

That's the only time I've seen it happen. I introduced her and she went, oh, hello, Sean. Nice to meet you. He's like, very nice to meet you, Megan. Boom.

[Jay Leno]

Hello, Pushy.

[Craig Ferguson]

Well, he didn't talk to our bottom department. He only. I mean her. But it was really.

[Jay Leno]

I know. Well, most people don't know he was Mr. Universe, third runner up. Yeah, that's right. 1953. He was a longshoreman. And he was a tough son.

[Craig Ferguson]

Very tough. You know the story about him and Johnny Stompanato?

[Jay Leno]

Oh, no. Did he get in a fight with Johnny Stompanato?

[Craig Ferguson]

Johnny Stompanato brings a gun on at the set. I can't remember the movie. He was doing a movie with Lana Turner.

[Jay Leno]

Right, right. Yeah. Yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

And the rumor was that Big Tam, as he's known in Scotland, or Sean Connery, was having an affair with Lana Turner. Which, knowing him and knowing about her, I'd say it's probably a pretty good even money bet. But Stompanato, who's her gangster boyfriend, turns up, points a gun, points a handgun at Shawn Carr. He takes the gun, he smacks Tony out. He did the head with the gun. And she says, get the fuck out of here. Don't bring a gun onto a place of work.

[Disney Advertiser]

He fucking.

[Craig Ferguson]

I mean, it's like he was a tough guy. He was from a very tough part of Edinburgh, and he was very kind of.

[Jay Leno]

And he's the only guy. You always hear a joke's a knee slapper.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Jay Leno]

He's the only guy I ever saw slap his knee.

[Craig Ferguson]

He'd slap his knee. Yeah.

[Jay Leno]

He'd go, chee cheek. What's the latest filthy joke going about, Jay? You know? And I tell him. I go. I mean, he would laugh like him. Like he was a pirate. And he was the only guy that ever took a shower in a Tonight show dressing room. Cause the dressing room's smaller than this.

[Craig Ferguson]

I remember a little tiny.

[Jay Leno]

They had a shower, but nobody. And he would sing Take the Hyatt on and you'll. And the news crew. News guys, news. Had to run down with the headphones. Who's shouting down? I said, it's Sean Connery. Oh, yeah, yeah. But. But. Oh, yeah. You know, it was. It was per.

[Craig Ferguson]

He.

[Jay Leno]

They took this rough thug, they put him in a Savile rose suit. They taught him a little bit about wine.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Jay Leno]

So he came across. He was the only. Really dangerous. I never got. Roger Moore was always the pillberry doughboy.

[Craig Ferguson]

Nah, he was kind of like the comedy Bond, you know, he was like.

[Jay Leno]

But him. And. And Daniel Craig.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, I could believe Daniel Craig was.

[Jay Leno]

Daniel Craig, but Sean Connory had the height, he had the weight, he had. The.

[Craig Ferguson]

Pierce was pretty good for the 1980s.

[Jay Leno]

Yeah. Pierce was good, too, but. But Sean Connor just had the physical presence. I mean, the Bond films are funny because Gold Finger Man, a big fat guy, can barely speak English, slobbering over himself. How is this guy? In the song. But yeah, in the song women. Oh, there he goes. He's Goldfinger, you know.

[Craig Ferguson]

Oh, please. You know that Sean Connery. I think it's in the movie Goldfinger. He wears a little toweling mini, like, it's like little shorty shorts and a zip that goes up the front and a little thing like that. It's the most ridiculous looking outfit.

[Jay Leno]

Oh, yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

And I remember we were watching it, like when one of my boys was little. We were watching introducing them to an old Bond movie. And I said to Megan, that's a stupid looking outfit. And she was not on. Sean Connery.

[Jay Leno]

Oh, yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

And then a press lit up again.

[Jay Leno]

Oh, yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

Wow.

[Jay Leno]

And he wasn't even there. Yeah, he was. He was quite a guy.

[Craig Ferguson]

He was. He was a very impressive.

[Jay Leno]

I mean, he was a guy for his time. Cause you watch it now and it's so incredibly sexy.

[Craig Ferguson]

It's shocking. It's shocking, but it was what it was.

[Jay Leno]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

Anyway, look, buddy, we're done for the recording. You and I can talk anytime.

[Jay Leno]

We're done already?

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, we're done then. But listen, that went pretty quick. Yeah, well, you know, we do talk a lot. A lot more than I talk to any other former host of the Tonight Show.

[Jay Leno]

Oh, there you go.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, you're the one I talk to the most.

[Jay Leno]

Well, there you go.

[Craig Ferguson]

And I think that, you know, I had such a good time when we were doing gigs with Arsenio this summer, and we should do it again.

[Jay Leno]

Yeah, I love doing those.

[Craig Ferguson]

He's a great guy, too. Arsenio. You guys are great.

[Jay Leno]

Arsenio's a great guy. I tell you a story about Arsenio. It was so funny. I think I told you about with Barry Manilow, you know that thing.

[Craig Ferguson]

No, tell me.

[Jay Leno]

Well, he was the only real threat. That was the one Carson was afraid of.

[Craig Ferguson]

Arsenio.

[Jay Leno]

Well, because it was hip.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah. And he was good black.

[Jay Leno]

It was young. It was everything Johnny wasn't, you know.

[Craig Ferguson]

Right.

[Jay Leno]

And, you know, like when Dana Carvey did Carcino, he did a comedy impression of a brilliant impression Johnny just hated. Made him very nervous. Anyway, so the first night of Arsenio show, he goes, you're not going to see Baron Manilow's ass on this show. This show is all about the funk. It's about the mute. Hit it. You Know, the band plays the game, right? Okay. So I remember watching that show right now. This is the time when he and I were supposed to be fighting, right?

[Craig Ferguson]

So you and Arsenio.

[Jay Leno]

Well, he had. I'm going to kick Leno's ass. He had all this stuff going on.

[Craig Ferguson]

You know, it's funny because I think of you two as being very good friends.

[Jay Leno]

We were very good friends. And we still are. And we were even during that. So, anyway, so I'm watching him every night to make sure we don't do the same jokes. He says, you need to do that, you know? And I hear him say, about December. Now, he came on, I guess, in September, and then about December, he goes, and next week on the show, Barry Manilow, you know, I have to sing. So I go, oh, sorry. So the next day I call, I go, hi, can I speak to us in your hall? This is Jay Leno. Just a minute. He doesn't want to speak to you now. Just put on. He doesn't want to speak to you. I said, no, he needs to hear what I have to say, you know. He goes, what do you want, motherfucker? What do you want? Ooh, next week, Barry Manilow. And then he falls off the chair. He's laughing so hard. I go, oh, you won't see his ass. I'm like. Cause you realize when you do these shows, you need everybody. Everybody.

[Craig Ferguson]

You take them away.

[Jay Leno]

You gotta take it. You can't be fucking night every night. You gotta have some. But. And from that point on, we both laughed at that.

[Craig Ferguson]

You know, when the news broke that I was gonna do the late night show, when I was taking it over, I was at a U2 concert in Forum in Los Angeles. And you know, the little backstage area. So I'm backstage there and Chris Rock is there, and he comes over and he goes, you're the guy taking over the show. And I went, yeah. And he goes, you guys do that shit every fucking night. I went, yeah. And he went, no, man. Every fucking night. I went, yeah. And then it kind of haunted me. It was like a movie.

[Jay Leno]

But see, I found every night easier because if it didn't go well, I got something. I can't stop and dwell. I gotta move on to the next one.

[Craig Ferguson]

That is the glory of it. But there's. But the truth is, by the time I was done, I mean, what did you do? 25 years?

[Jay Leno]

22 years, 23. Well, I mean, 25 kind of guessing, you know.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, I did 10 years, and that's about two more than I really wanted.

[Jay Leno]

Yeah, yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

Wasn't there a point where you were like, ugh, no.

[Jay Leno]

I'm pretty good at simple, repetitive tasks, so. Yeah, well, you know, I enjoyed it. I like the discipline of writing jokes every day.

[Craig Ferguson]

I like. Great at it.

[Jay Leno]

I like the idea. Oh, pencils down. I gotta go. Okay, okay. If it didn't. If the show wasn't any good, I got another show tomorrow. And three days later, you forgot about that show. That wasn't very good.

[Craig Ferguson]

That's true. It's interesting now, though, that all these shows hang around and people pick out parts from a show and broadcast it. And, like, I don't even remember doing that, you know?

[Jay Leno]

I know, I know.

[Craig Ferguson]

It's crazy. You know, it's different.

[Jay Leno]

You know, the saddest thing about late night is everybody doing it is really good. The trouble is you have these streaming services. You can watch the Lord of the Wings trilogy without commercials. You can watch all three Godfather movies. You know, every talk show you watch now, because the viewing audience is smaller, there's even more commercials.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Jay Leno]

So you watch the monologue five and a half minutes, then seven minutes of commercials, then six and a half minutes of show, then nine minutes after midnight of commercials. Oh, my God. And it just makes, you know. And it's not. It's not. Not the host's fault. It's just. There's so much.

[Craig Ferguson]

The economics of it.

[Jay Leno]

Yeah, exactly.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah. No, I'm glad I got out when I. We got out at the right time, buddy.

[Jay Leno]

Well, we did. Yeah. Nobody's making that kind of money anymore.

[Craig Ferguson]

All right, well, let's get the out here. Drive a car.

[Jay Leno]

Thanks for having me.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, anytime.

[Jay Leno]

New out of nowhere obstacles. New all or nothing moments. New less than likely triumphs. Season two of the Unshakeables podcast has it all. Hi, I'm Ben Walter, CEO of Chase for Business and host of the show. We're excited to bring you more inspiring stories from small business owners who share the what are we gonna do? Moments that ended up changing everything. Listen wherever you get your podcast. Chase mobile app is available for select mobile devices. Message and data rates may apply. JP Morgan Chase Bank NA Member FDIC Copyright 2025 JP Morgan Chase & Company.

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[Jay Leno]

You, Tina, Lisa, Sheila, whatever.

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[Craig Ferguson]

It's Carrie, ma' am.

[Jay Leno]

Just get it done.

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