Joy, a Podcast with Craig Ferguson
Episode: Nellie McKay
Date: September 2, 2025
Episode Overview
In this lively episode of "Joy," host Craig Ferguson sits down with the ever-eclectic musician, activist, and performer Nellie McKay. The conversation careens between the pursuit of happiness, the realities of creative life, musings on mortality, veganism, show business, and near-anarchic tangents on everything from New York real estate to celebrity feuds. Ferguson and McKay riff on what brings them joy in a fraught world, revealing humor, vulnerability, and an uncommon candor about the struggles and delights of their chosen paths.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
Piano Bars, Performance, and Earning a Living
- Nellie discusses her piano bar days:
- "It's always Christmas. ...I once got fired from one for playing Christmas music in July. But that's the best time to do it." (04:03)
- She likens piano bar work to the Beatles’ marathon Hamburg gigs, where you play for hours but perform less when you go pro.
- Craig on performing for a living:
- Ferguson jokes about singing “raucously with a bunch of middle aged gay men,” admitting he can’t play piano but can bring energy (05:27).
Nellie’s New Play and Theater as Chaos
- Nellie is about to start rehearsals for a new play, "Let's Love," written by Ethan Coen—a title she quips should actually be “Congestion Tax” (05:56).
- Together, they muse about dark humor in theater and boundaries in performance, to which Nellie jokes:
- "After every love scene I could stab someone." (06:37)
Fears, Anxieties, and the News Cycle
- Nuclear anxiety:
- “I should be the last person [to worry about nuclear war] because I know what humans do. So I should be hoping for annihilation.” (08:31) — Nellie
- Media amplification:
- Craig's theory: violence and crime haven’t increased so much as the coverage has, making the world seem more dangerous than before (10:34).
Stories of Hitchhiking, Danger, and Family
- Nellie shares wild stories from her mother’s youth—hitchhiking tales, narrow escapes, and growing up in a bohemian (sometimes chaotic) household (11:13, 12:21).
- Ferguson: "I feel like I perhaps should talk to your mom, or at least The FBI should." (12:21)
On Taxes, the Healthcare System, and Class/Race
- Nellie jokes about evading taxes “like Joan Baez” citing musician Percy Sledge’s troubles with the IRS and healthcare:
- "Apparently he got in trouble for that... He had to have a fundraiser for medical care. Craig. After 'When A Man Loves a Woman,' he had to have a fund." (13:52)
- Nellie critiques class divides and gentrification in New York:
- "Once people reach a certain level, yoga studios and cupcake shops appear...they buy up apartments like it's real estate deals." (15:46)
Showbiz Anecdotes: Yul Brynner, Marlena Dietrich, Alan Rickman
- Nellie recounts her mother working for Yul Brynner—a backstage world of rubber bands, oxygen tanks, and affairs with Marlena Dietrich (16:34–17:58).
- She later reveals Rickman went to school with her mother and joined her as an extra in the film "Oh Lucky Man!" (60:29–61:08).
Family and Artistic Influence
- Craig admires Nellie’s genre-hopping music, asking if her upbringing influenced this:
- “I think there’s something called genetic memory…maybe some of my family were part of the Pirates of Penzance.” (21:57)
- They explore the concept of “circus folk” and living outside societal norms.
Veganism, Addiction, and Self-Forgiveness
- Vegan confessions:
- Craig admits to lapsing back into eating meat during lockdown, only to be chastised by a doctor and return to veganism for his cholesterol (23:15).
- Nellie on temptation and pressure and the need for kindness towards ourselves:
- "It's a struggle every day...everywhere you go, you know, there's this or that...everybody's under some kind of pressure and food is such a...it's something you can rely upon and it's home and family." (24:05–25:22)
- Both reflect on performers’ reliance on substances to manage stage fright, sharing gig mishaps and substance-related faux pas (27:20–29:55).
Meeting Heroes and Navigating Awkwardness
- Nellie shares stories of locking David Byrne in a dressing room because she didn’t want him to leave (42:03) and avoiding learning too much about her heroes to stave off awkwardness.
- Craig reveals his nervousness inviting musical idols onto his late-night show:
- “Don’t ask them, just in case they say, yeah.” (44:15)
- They riff on starting a celebrity feud for publicity:
- Nellie: "I suggested it to Ethan...why don't we have a Twitter feud?...But he's a Virgo...I think if the end of the world came, the last to go should be the Earth signs..." (46:25)
Death, Afterlife, and the Evolution of ‘Heaven’
- They reflect on mortality as a perspective for daily gratitude:
- “I have noticed that the older I get, the more I do that—I wake up in the morning and go, still here, eh? OK, what are we gonna do now?” (51:58) — Craig
- Nellie speculates about life after death, referencing near-death accounts and shifting cultural tastes in old age:
- “It used to be when I was playing nursing homes...everybody wanted Tommy Dorsey. Now everybody wants Mick Jagger...soon it's gonna be, ‘everybody wants David Byrne'...then what do I hope happens? I do think there’s something beyond.” (52:52)
- Craig tells of the short story he wrote about dying, featuring a conversation with Elvis about overthinking death (54:45).
Showbiz, Broadway, and Performing Tips
- Craig on theater: “...the best advice I got, which is an old time performer, he said...when you get on stage, lift your head up...Because the people at the back have paid as well. Eyes and teeth all the way to the back of the room.” (59:29)
- Nellie revels in “just being part of the machine” in theater, not running the whole motor herself (59:22).
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- On performing with joy:
- “You kinda perform less once you go pro.” — Nellie McKay (04:18)
- On nuclear anxiety:
- “I should be the last person because I know what humans do. So I should be hoping for annihilation.” — Nellie McKay (08:31)
- On substance and performance:
- "Whenever I used alcohol...I thought I was doing great with my performance. But everyone has assured me that since I stopped...my performing skills have improved immeasurably." — Craig Ferguson (29:11)
- On kindness and temptation:
- "Everybody’s under some kind of pressure and food is such a...it's something you can rely upon and it's home and family...we all got to be kind to one another and ourselves." — Nellie McKay (25:22)
- On aging and the afterlife:
- “I've lost so many people and good people. The boomers, for God's sake...now everybody wants Mick Jagger...Do I hope happens? I do think there's something beyond.” — Nellie McKay (52:52)
- “I think I own nothing. I own nothing. Not even your body. You don’t even own that. You can’t even control that. ...So whatever the lovely paintings or automobiles or anything that I own, when I go, they're no longer mine. What does it matter?” — Craig Ferguson (56:38)
- Richard Kind, parties, and fate:
- “It's always the event you don’t want to go to.” — Nellie McKay (32:50)
- “Now we say that to our kids, which is always go to the party. Because you never know who you’re gonna meet.” — Craig Ferguson (32:54)
Timestamps for Key Segments
- Piano bars, performing, and the “joy” of doing it for a living: 04:03–06:12
- Discussing Nellie’s upcoming play and dark theater humor: 05:44–07:19
- Fears, nuclear war, and media coverage: 08:03–10:34
- Mother’s hitchhiking stories, criminal escapades, and youthful adventure: 11:13–13:22
- Healthcare, taxes, and moving in the U.S. & U.K.: 13:38–15:46
- Class, New York, and surviving gentrification: 15:46–16:20
- Show business family anecdotes (Yul Brynner, Dietrich): 16:34–17:58
- Veganism & the pressures to stay “true” amid constant temptation: 23:11–25:22
- Performing under pressure/substances, gig failures, and being honest about creative living: 27:20–30:58
- Meeting idols, David Byrne, and the hazards of fan-hero encounters: 41:39–46:22
- Mortality, afterlife, and reappraising 'Heaven': 51:58–57:09
- On the shared delight of Broadway, West End, and collaborative performance: 59:10–60:07
Style & Tone
- Tone: Spirited, irreverent, emotionally candid, warmly self-deprecating.
- Dynamic: The interplay between Ferguson’s Scottish-American dry wit and McKay’s whimsical, quipping intelligence creates a freewheeling but intimate atmosphere.
- Mood: Both playful and surprisingly deep, the episode balances the absurd side of performance with real talk about struggle, resilience, and the bittersweet pursuit of joy.
Final Reflections
The episode closes with Craig pledging to see Nellie’s new smutty, heartfelt play ("Let's Love"), advice about not hitchhiking around NYC, and one last volley of jokes and mutual well-wishing. Both guests exemplify how authentic joy is found not in avoiding struggle, but in embracing it—often with a joke, a song, or simply “eyes and teeth all the way to the back of the room.”
Summary by Podcast Summarizer AI