Paulina Porizkova

Summary

Joy Podcast Summary: Craig Ferguson Interviews Paulina Porizkova

Episode Title: Paulina Porizkova
Release Date: May 6, 2025
Hosted by: Craig Ferguson
Published by: iHeartPodcasts

---

Introduction

In this engaging episode of Joy, host Craig Ferguson sits down with renowned Czech supermodel and author Paulina Porizkova. They delve deep into Paulina's fascinating life, exploring her early years, career in modeling, personal relationships, and her journey toward finding joy amidst life's challenges. The conversation is rich with personal anecdotes, insightful reflections, and notable quotes that illuminate Paulina's resilient and multifaceted personality.

---

Early Life and Childhood Trauma

Craig Ferguson begins the conversation by addressing Paulina's tumultuous childhood. Paulina recounts her early years in Czechoslovakia during the Soviet occupation.

• Paulina Porizkova shares:
  "[07:30]...it's a deep and profound childhood trauma..."

She explains how her parents fled to Austria when she was just three years old, leaving her behind with her grandmother under the assumption they would return for her. However, communication broke down, leading her to believe, in her young mind, that her parents had passed away.

• Reflecting on the emotional impact, Paulina states:
  "[06:00]...I was left with my grandmother... I had no idea, just figured, oh, my parents sort of suddenly disappeared."
  (Timestamp: 06:00)

This separation and uncertainty sowed the seeds for her later struggles with relationships and trust.

---

Journey to Freedom and Family Reunification

Craig probes into the specifics of Paulina's family's attempts to reunite. Paulina narrates the daring effort her parents made to reclaim her from the Czech Republic, highlighting their use of media and public demonstrations to garner support.

• Paulina Porizkova explains:
  "[17:19]...my parents making it into Austria...they started doing a hunger strike in front of the Czech Embassy in Stockholm."
  (Timestamp: 17:19)

Despite their efforts, a planned kidnapping attempt to bring her back failed when they were arrested for speeding. This incident prolonged her separation until international pressures eventually led to her release in 1973.

• Paulina recounts:
  "[21:13]...the Swedish Prime Minister refused to play unless we were released...they finally booted us out in 1973."
  (Timestamp: 21:13)

---

Modeling Career and Rise to Fame

Transitioning to her professional life, Paulina discusses how her early entry into the fashion world at the age of 15 in Paris shaped her future.

• Craig Ferguson asks about her move to Paris:
  "By the time you're 15, you're a model in Paris on your own."
  (Timestamp: 24:31)

• Paulina Porizkova responds:
  "[25:36]...introduced me to John Casablanca...I was sent to Paris over the summer at 15."
  (Timestamp: 25:36)

She reflects on the challenges and exhilaration of starting a modeling career so young, balancing financial independence with the vulnerabilities of youth.

• Paulina shares:
  "[27:12]...it was a time of extremes...scary and also liberating."
  (Timestamp: 27:12)

Her success in Paris led to international recognition, establishing her as one of the first supermodels and navigating the complexities of fame.

---

Personal Relationships and Marriages

Craig and Paulina explore her personal life, particularly her marriage and the dynamics that influenced her relationships.

• Paulina Porizkova opens up about her first marriage:
  "[38:21]...I met my husband when I was 19 and he was 41...he lied about his age."
  (Timestamp: 38:21)

She discusses discovering her husband's true age five years into the marriage, causing a rift and contributing to the eventual dissolution of their relationship.

• Reflecting on her search for meaningful connections, Paulina states:
  "[30:29]...I made attempts to reconnect with my father, but it wasn't worthwhile."
  (Timestamp: 30:29)

Her experiences highlight the long-lasting effects of childhood trauma on adult relationships, fostering a tendency to seek out the wrong partners.

---

Writing and Personal Expression

Paulina shares her passion for writing as a therapeutic outlet and a means of self-expression.

• Craig Ferguson inquires about her literary endeavors:
  "You wrote a very interesting article... Are you writing more?"
  (Timestamp: 43:06)

• Paulina Porizkova elaborates:
  "[44:13]...wrote a book of personal essays... incredibly rewarding."
  (Timestamp: 44:13)

She describes her writing process during a challenging period marked by personal losses and global events, using it as a way to process and articulate her emotions.

• Paulina reflects:
  "[45:15]...writing was like slashing a vein, bleeding onto the paper to relieve distress."
  (Timestamp: 45:15)

---

Views on Social Media and Control

The conversation shifts to the impact of social media on personal well-being and control.

• Craig Ferguson shares his discomfort with social media negativity:
  "[46:46]...it feels like unfiltered negativity pouring at me."
  (Timestamp: 46:46)

• Paulina Porizkova responds:
  "[47:17]...social media can also be unquestionable positivity which feels undeserved."
  (Timestamp: 47:17)

They discuss strategies to mitigate the adverse effects of social media, emphasizing the importance of self-control and selective engagement.

• Paulina advises:
  "[48:36]...if you don't pay attention to negativity on Twitter, it's not there."
  (Timestamp: 48:36)

---

Reflections on Past and Identity

Paulina delves into her self-identity and how her past has shaped her present.

• Craig Ferguson probes her journey toward self-discovery:
  "[36:11]...do you find yourself getting angry?"
  (Timestamp: 36:11)

• Paulina Porizkova shares her emotional coping mechanisms:
  "[37:05]...reduced anger to contempt... simmering contempt for everyone."
  (Timestamp: 37:05)

She acknowledges that these defense mechanisms were born from her traumatic upbringing but have evolved as she seeks genuine connections and self-acceptance.

---

Concluding Thoughts

As the episode wraps up, Craig and Paulina reflect on their conversation's depth and the inevitability of technology altering human interactions.

• Paulina Porizkova expresses a preference for in-person interactions:
  "[53:02]...technology keeps us together but also keeps us apart."
  (Timestamp: 53:02)

• Craig Ferguson emphasizes the irreplaceable nature of live, face-to-face engagements:
  "[54:38]...the best shows are always in the theater or the club when nobody's got a camera."
  (Timestamp: 54:38)

They conclude with mutual appreciation for each other's perspectives, underscoring the importance of authentic human connection in finding joy.

---

Notable Quotes

• Paulina Porizkova on childhood trauma:
  "It's a deep and profound childhood trauma."
  (Timestamp: 07:30)

• Paulina Porizkova on modeling's impact on identity:
  "It sets you up for feeling like the only thing of importance about you is the way you look."
  (Timestamp: 32:33)

• Craig Ferguson on live interactions:
  "The best shows are always in the theater or the club when nobody's got a camera."
  (Timestamp: 54:38)

• Paulina Porizkova on social media:
  "Both unfiltered adoration and hate need to be put aside. They don't matter now."
  (Timestamp: 47:26)

---

Conclusion

This episode of Joy offers a profound exploration of Paulina Porizkova's life, highlighting her resilience in overcoming early trauma, navigating the complexities of a high-profile career, and striving for genuine happiness. Through candid dialogue and heartfelt reflections, Paulina and Craig shed light on the pursuit of joy amidst adversity, making this episode a compelling listen for anyone seeking inspiration and a deeper understanding of what it means to truly find joy in a challenging world.

Transcript

[iHeart Podcast Announcer]

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[Craig Ferguson]

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[iHeart Podcast Announcer]

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[Craig Ferguson]

This is me, Craig Ferguson. I'm inviting you to come and see my brand new comedy hour. Well, it's actually, it's about an hour and a half and I don't have an opener because these guys cost money. But, but what I'm saying is I'll be on stage for a while anyway, come and see me live on the Pants on Fire tour in your region. Tickets are on sale now and we'll be adding more as the Tour continues throughout 2025 and beyond. For A full list of dates go to thecraigfergusonshow.com See you on the road, my dears. My name is Craig Ferguson. The name of this podcast is Joy. I talk to interesting people, but what brings them happiness? Hello, everyone. Now, my guest today was one of my favorite recurring guests on the old late night show. She is a remarkably interesting, fascinating human being with an amazing story to tell, which if you hang around, you're about to hear. She is the Czech wonder girl, Paulina Porizkova. That's how you say it in Czech. Or you could say it in American by saying Paulina Lena Podoskova. Here she is. Enjoy. There you are. You look great. May I say we both don't look a day older than when we were carrying on on late night.

[Paulina Porizkova]

Oh, I think we look about a decade older, but I think it suits us. How about that?

[Craig Ferguson]

Well, okay, I'll take it. I suppose I do. I don't think you do. You look incandescent. Are you happy?

[Paulina Porizkova]

Yes, I am very happy. Knock on wood. Czech tradition, Eastern European have to touch wood. Yes, I am actually incredibly happy. Or at least you're talking to me at a moment where I am incredibly happy. How about you?

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, no, I'm pretty good, actually. I'm in a reasonable mood and I'm reasonably happy. I feel like it's quite interesting. The last time we spoke, whenever we spoke before, it was always for 10 minutes in front of a couple of hundred people. And I always thought, you know, it's such an odd thing because I felt like I knew you and I felt like we were friendly, but we really. Honestly, our conversations were just that.

[Paulina Porizkova]

Yeah, it's true.

[Craig Ferguson]

Maybe a little bit. How'd you do beforehand? And that was it.

[Paulina Porizkova]

Yeah, I know. After I did your show for the first time, all my friends sort of came away and they were like, my God, you guys had such chemistry. It's like you were old friends. And so, yeah, I think that's one.

[Craig Ferguson]

Of those things you remember certain people. You were always one of my favorite guests. You still are to this day. Now, let me tell you this, though. What you can't do in 10 minutes is you really can't find out about someone. And what I wanted to talk to you about today is because we always joke to you about you were coming from Eastern Europe and stuff like that. But you correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't you born when the Soviets were still in control in Eastern Europe? Is that right?

[Paulina Porizkova]

Actually, thanks. You're making me a little younger than I actually am. I just turned 60 last week, so I was born in 65, and the Soviets came in in 68. So I was 3 years old when they occupied the country. And this is what sort of set up my life and the life of my parents on a very interesting personal trajectory. Besides the whole country going to shit.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah. I mean, do you remember the Soviets? Were you out of there by. You were out there quite young.

[Paulina Porizkova]

No. So what happened was that my parents left in 1968 because they knew, you know, we were getting occupied. Everybody knew this. The tanks were rolling in, and few brave people decided to chance it and leave. Right. And my parents were two of those. Two of those. Because they were, you know, they were like. My mother was, like, 21. My dad was 24. I mean, they're very young. And they. They jumped on a motorcycle and. And just drove between the tanks and drove out to Austria to a refugee camp. And they left me behind thinking that they would get me a couple of weeks later, you know, that, you know, once they were established in the normal country, that they would just be able to get me out. And that did not work at all. And I was left with my grandmother and of course, you know, three. I have no. I had no idea. Just figured, oh, my parents sort of suddenly disappeared. Nobody told me where they went, so I sort of assumed that they were dead, but in a kind of a childish way of like, oh, my parents went to heaven and I couldn't follow. You know, happens.

[Craig Ferguson]

So you. You don't think you were traumatized by it in any way? I feel like. I feel like. I feel like this is a deep and profound childhood trauma right there.

[Paulina Porizkova]

Oh, it's a deep and profound childhood trauma, all right.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Paulina Porizkova]

But it doesn't start plaguing you until you grow up and you try to form relationships, you know?

[Craig Ferguson]

Yes.

[Paulina Porizkova]

That's when you kind of get the full impact of what actually happened and how you glued it together.

[Craig Ferguson]

Let me ask you about this. This may seem like an odd question, but have you ever had in your life a fear of flying?

[Paulina Porizkova]

I did. I had. I had a huge fear of flying for about 20 years. In between not being scared at all and then not being scared at all. Again, it's very interesting. Why are you asking?

[Craig Ferguson]

Because there's a guy. There's a fear of flying guy. An old. I think he was an American Airlines captain. His name's Tom Bunn, and he does. He helps people who are frightened of flying. And I used to be frightened of flying, too.

[Paulina Porizkova]

Oh, really?

[Craig Ferguson]

And yeah. And he says that a lot of it is not about flying at all, but a lot of it is to do with. When you were a kid, an authority figure that you should trust and that you placed all your trust in lets you down badly. And later on it manifests itself as a fear of flying. I just thought, oh, well, this sounds like a classic. Is that, is that really. How did you get over it?

[Paulina Porizkova]

As a desire to control? Yeah, I am a complete and utter control freak. How about you?

[Craig Ferguson]

Pretty much the same. What I did was, is I became a control freak. So much so that I got my pilot's license, I learned to fly.

[Paulina Porizkova]

Yeah, that makes perfect sense to me.

[iHeart Podcast Announcer]

Yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

Isn't that funny? Because a lot of people that like, that's crazy.

[Paulina Porizkova]

Yeah, no, that's the way to go about it. You can then pilot your own plane. And I, what I did was I got myself a Vespa that I ride around New York. And that makes me feel like I'm in control.

[Craig Ferguson]

You still ride it around?

[Ben Walter]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

That is baller. Is it the classic Italian looking thing with the little bit in the front and everything? That. Yes, great. Yes, that is great.

[Paulina Porizkova]

I've had it for like 28 years or something. I used to drive my kids to school on it and so they were like always like the hippest kids to, you know, get off their mom's Vespa in their little leather jackets and, you know, flick your hair.

[Craig Ferguson]

Very, very cool. Ciao, baby.

[Paulina Porizkova]

It's cool when it's in New York.

[Craig Ferguson]

Are you still in New York? Yeah, you know, I just moved back to New York.

[Paulina Porizkova]

No, I did not know that. Wait, do you catch me up on your life? What are you, what are you up to?

[Craig Ferguson]

Well, you know, I'm not doing tons. I'm doing some things, but I was doing live stuff because I, I, you know, doing stand up because I, I kind of. After late night, I was like, I don't know if I ever want to see the inside of a television studio again. And I'm over that now and I'm doing it. But it, it was kind of, it was so intense, that period. Like 10 years I'm doing a show every night. 10 minute conversation, 10 minutes. Some people you remember, like you. I remember, of course, very well. But there are people who were on that, like I've met since who have said, oh, you should have been on the late night show. And they're like, oh, I was on it three times. Thanks for mentioning it. And so it, I kind of like, I Do stand up and I do bits and pieces. And I went to live in Scotland for a while for like five years, I think, and then we moved back after that. But have you ever moved back to Europe? Have you ever spent time back there? You've never gone back?

[Paulina Porizkova]

I really love Europe. Like I feel when I go back there, there's a part of me that. That feels at home or maybe safe to. To some extent. But you know, I've lived in the United States now longer than I've lived anywhere else, in fact. So. See this apartment, this is a rented apartment that I'm very passionate. I love this apartment because it's the first place that I got to move in by myself since I was like 18 and chose all the wallpaper and made it look kind of European. But right across this wall right there is the very first apartment that I rented when I was 17 years old and I moved to New York. So I live right next door to the 17 year old me.

[Craig Ferguson]

Ah, how is the 17 year old you doing?

[Paulina Porizkova]

Well. Well, she's dead.

[Craig Ferguson]

Well, let me ask you this, put it a different way. So you're left behind in Czech, or what they called, I guess. What did they call it then?

[Paulina Porizkova]

I think it's a. Well, it was Czechoslovakia back then. Then it turned into the Czech Republic and now we're supposed to call it Czechia, which is what we Czechs have always called it. Czechi.

[Craig Ferguson]

Well, I don't know any Czech person I've talked to about. I've only talked to a couple. The producer of this show, Tomas, who you were just talking to, he's Jack.

[Paulina Porizkova]

Yeah, I can tell by his last name. Yeah, it's because Zakopal Zakopil means somebody who was buried.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, I think it's Undertaker or something, isn't it? It's Undertaker, which is perfect for him.

[Paulina Porizkova]

Poor man.

[Craig Ferguson]

No, no, he's great. He's just. He's. He's a. A cheerful dark soul.

[Paulina Porizkova]

But I think we all are that.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, the Czech people are quite like that, right? Yeah, quite cheerful, but quite.

[Paulina Porizkova]

Well, look, we've been occupied for our entire existence, so like there's a. There's a. You learn that life is best lived with incredibly low expectations and that things can turn on a dime and that, you know, things are happy today and tomorrow somebody will come in and wreck your life. So this is amazing.

[Craig Ferguson]

It's like talking to a very beautiful version of Tomas because we're all the same.

[Paulina Porizkova]

It's all the same.

[iHeart Podcast Announcer]

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[Craig Ferguson]

With a message for everyone Paying Big Wireless way too much.

[Paulina Porizkova]

Please for the love of everything good.

[Craig Ferguson]

In this world world Stop with Mint. You can get premium wireless for just 15amonth. Of course if you enjoy overpaying, no judgments. But that's weird. Okay, one judgment anyway, give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment of 45 for.

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[Craig Ferguson]

Ferguson and I want to let you know I have a brand new stand up comedy special out now on YouTube. It's called I'm so Happy and I would be so happy if you checked it out. To watch the special, just go to my YouTube channel, Hecraig Ferguson show. And this is right there. Just click it and play it and it's free. I can't. Look, I'm not going to come around your house and show you how to do it. If you can't do it, then you can have it. But if you can figure it out, it's yours. So what happened then? Did you ever reunite with your parents?

[Paulina Porizkova]

Oh, well, there's quite, quite a bit of a story. I guess. You can always edit it out, right?

[Craig Ferguson]

No, not at all.

[Paulina Porizkova]

But you're welcome to if you want to. So what happened was that my parents, my parents made it into Austria. They didn't get shocked, so that was nice. I was left with my grandmother and then from the Austrian refugee camp they got sent to Sweden, which was a, you know, a place that was hospitable to refugees at that point. And then they were trying to get me out and they couldn't. The borders were closed and you know, that was over. So my parents again, being very young and very photogenic, decided to sort of raise awareness for their cause of like not being able to get their child. And so they started with doing a hunger strike in front of the Stockholm Embassy, the Czech Embassy in Stockholm, to try to get people empathetic and sign, you know, sign on a, whatever lists of people protesting the Czech government not allowing their daughter to be released. And the Czech government did absolutely nothing. But the Swedes really liked us. They got kind of whipped into a frenzy of helping these two young beautiful people to get their daughter out. So I became sort of a cause celebr. Of course. Figures. It was like my early career. I was a famous political refugee and I became famous in Sweden as like little Paulina. Poor little Paulina.

[Craig Ferguson]

Oh no, I had no idea. So how did they get you out? The Swedes got you out there kind.

[Paulina Porizkova]

Of eventually, about three years. My parents were using all the press and all the media and they were on TV and eventually a Swedish magazine actually, I believe the Czechs sent Them, my parents, a letter saying that because they hadn't claimed me for three years, I was going to be adopted to a suitable family. Whoa. So that, of course, would mean that they would lose me forever. And they did sort of this desperate last attempt in which a Swedish newspaper funded getting two Swedish pilots and my mother to go and kidnap me on my way from school. They were going to kidnap me. They had a false passport for me. My mother had a false passport claiming she was one of the pilot's wife and that they were just coming to the Czech Republic to look at planes to purchase. And while they did that, they were going to grab me and pack me off into a small plane. Of course, nobody considered how I would feel about this, not having seen my mother in four years and didn't know who the. Who she was anymore. But they. So. And that newspaper had like a. What do you call it? A, you know, it was their story. It was exclusive.

[Craig Ferguson]

Exclusive. Yeah. Yeah.

[Paulina Porizkova]

There's an exclusive story. And so my mom and those two pilots. My mom had a wig and glasses and the false passport, and they land in the Czech Republic or Czechoslovak, Slovakia. They rent a car and they're driving on the way to my little town to get me on my way to school, and they get busted for speeding. Yeah. And so they get taken to a police station, interrogated. Apparently, somebody might have written to the authorities that my mother was going to try to kidnap me.

[Craig Ferguson]

It was a tip off.

[Paulina Porizkova]

Yeah. So the whole thing unspooled and they were all put in jail, the Swedish pilots and my mother. My mother was six months pregnant with my baby brother. And now this newspaper had gotten a way better story than they even bargained for.

[Craig Ferguson]

Oh, my God. I know. Yeah. But what goes on? How long are they in jail? What happens?

[Paulina Porizkova]

Well, my mother is in jail for about three months. And then, because there was, you know, Sweden was, you know, it was all our story. Oh, my God. Anna Porizkova got caught. She's in jail. She's pregnant. She's not gotten to see Paulina. Like, you know, this is like a huge story. So she was given amnesty. About three months into this, she got given amnesty. And so she was allowed to come and stay at my grandmother's house with me and grandma under house arrest for the next three years. The Swedish pilots, I believe, were in jail for, like, 10 years.

[Craig Ferguson]

What?

[Paulina Porizkova]

Yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

So your baby brother. And your baby brother's born. Your dad is still in Sweden.

[Paulina Porizkova]

Dad is still in Sweden. And dad is sort of carrying on, you know, doing all the interviews. He's meeting with Olaf Palme, the Swedish Prime Minister, to see if there's a way that Olaf Palme can move anything to get us out. And there's like. And this is going on for another three years of this sort of back and forth Swedish newspaper men coming into the Czech Republic to take pictures of us that they can then publish in magazines in Sweden. And at. At the end of those three years, in 1973, I believe the Swedish hockey team was supposed to play the Czechs in like the International Friendships Games or something. And they refused to play the Czechs unless they released us. And Olof Palmer refused to make a state's visit unless they released us. And then they finally. And then they booted us out in 1973. They took my mom's passport and said, get out and don't ever come back. And then that was that.

[Craig Ferguson]

That's crazy. Now, you see, this is something that doesn't come up in a 10 minute conversation. So you're by this time, what, nine years old? Almost.

[Paulina Porizkova]

Yes. So I was nine when we left the Czech Republic.

[Craig Ferguson]

Right, and now you become a Swedish citizen, I guess. Right. And the family's reunited.

[Paulina Porizkova]

Yeah, for about a week or so, because my dad had found some other woman while mom was gone. So he promptly. And then mom was sort of a single parent and she was having a bit of a nervous breakdown. And so it was me and my little brother kind of left to our, you know, own devices, as they say.

[Craig Ferguson]

This is a movie. Paulina. This is unbelievable.

[Paulina Porizkova]

I know, but every time I tell somebody the story, they're kind of like, yeah, it's kind of too much, you know, just give me half of that story. The full story is. It's unbelievable. And then, you know what?

[Craig Ferguson]

I think maybe it's not a movie. I think it's like 10 episodes on Netflix. That's what it is.

[Paulina Porizkova]

Yeah. I think it has to be a limited TV series.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, I think it is. Have you ever. Because then after that, if you're like, you're now like 9, 10 years old, you're in Sweden and by the time you're what, 17, you're living in New York?

[Paulina Porizkova]

Well, by the time I'm 15, I'm a model in Paris on my own.

[Craig Ferguson]

How does that happen? Is it because your famous little Paulina is now growing up and she's very beautiful and actually she's not grown up. She's only 15. Why is she going to Paris?

[Paulina Porizkova]

Well, because models start very young. I think we know that.

[Craig Ferguson]

That seems very, very young. Doesn't it?

[Paulina Porizkova]

Well, you know. Well, yes, it's very, very young, but I was, I had a girlfriend who really was interested in fashion and she wanted to be a fashion photographer. And mind you, we're like teens, you know, like little teens that do the selfies, you know, these days. So she sort of, she would take pictures of me on her little Instamatic pocket camera and then she sent those pictures in to some scout in the city where we lived in Lund in Sweden to ask what she thought of her photography. Like, oh, do you, you know, how do I become a fashion photographer? And the lady got back to her saying, yeah, you know, photography, schmotography. Who's the girl? How old is she and how tall is she?

[Craig Ferguson]

Wow.

[Paulina Porizkova]

And she introduced me to John Casablanca when I was 14. He took a look, he said, would you like to go to Paris over the summer? And I was like, yeah. And so I was sent to Paris over the summer. Now, it was supposed to be just a summer job, in all fairness.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Paulina Porizkova]

But you know, I got to Paris at. I was 15. I, I was really fortunate. I started working kind of right away and by the time the summer was over, I had traveled. Like, I had gone to Morocco, I had gone to Japan on my own by myself. They just would, they would hand me a plane ticket and say, go. And I would go. And going back to school seemed boring.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, no, I understand. It does, it does. I mean, look, I'm not your father, as you well know, but it does worry me.

[Paulina Porizkova]

Wait, what?

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, it worries me though, the idea of that 15 year old, 16 year old Paulina is too. And the fashion world is not renowned for being full of scrupulous characters, kind.

[Paulina Porizkova]

Men who want what's best for you. Fatherly types.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah. What, how, how was it? Did you, how did you manage? Were you okay?

[Paulina Porizkova]

Well, with okay, meaning, you know, did I survive and not get well?

[Craig Ferguson]

Clearly you survived, but. Yes, yes, yes, clearly you survived and clearly you thrived. But it. Was it a very difficult time? Was it a very unpleasant time?

[Paulina Porizkova]

Well, you know what? It was both, to be honest. It was being 15 and completely unsupervised and making more money in three months than your parents. Making a year is not a terrible place to be at times. And then at times, you know, when you're by yourself in your little apartment and you are scared and you're young and you don't really know there's no real safety for you, then it's scary. So it was both. It was sort of a time of extremes I think, you know, it's an.

[Craig Ferguson]

Interesting thing as well because if you are, and you clearly are, I mean, I'm sure you're at peace with this now, but you're very beautiful. And so when people are very beautiful, I've noticed that sometimes people, other people will punish them a bit. They'll be quite cruel to them. They become a little strange. Particularly I think, you know, they always say things like beauty's only skin deep and it's not really that valuable and what you have is just luck and kind of downplay it all the time. Which I think is kind of. I don't think that's necessary really.

[Paulina Porizkova]

Well, is it necessary? No, I think it's just, it's a human emotion when somebody, you know how we all compare one and ourselves to other people. We can't help it. It's a biological function. Comparison. Right. Where do I stand in society and when you are seen as an attractive and young woman, by the way, you have to be young. The nice thing about being older is that I don't get that anymore. Nobody gives a shit. It's like you can be attractive because, you know, guys are not going to go for me anymore because I'm too old.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah. I don't know if that's entirely realistic, but fair enough. I'll go with you. And the.

[Paulina Porizkova]

Thank you.

[Craig Ferguson]

So you're doing these modeling assignments and stuff like that and you are clearly you're getting all this information from the world that you are young and you're beautiful and that is a commodity. And so what do you do? You take it to New York. That's what you decide to do. Or does a job take you there?

[Paulina Porizkova]

Yeah, no, it's, there's a very small, there's very little decision making when you're a 15 year old child. You do sort of the nice thing about it is that you're endlessly flexible. Right. So right wherever they put you, you just kind of go with it and you go, oh, well that's, this is the way it's supposed to be. Have you ever seen Fellini's eight and a Half?

[Craig Ferguson]

A long time ago. Like a long time ago.

[Paulina Porizkova]

Well, I just, I just rewatched it the other day and, and it's a really kind of a cool movie and it's beautiful, but it really is kind of like the insane ravings of a middle aged man who finds himself, you know, doesn't know where, where he's going next career wise and all these women that he's disappointed and, and, and you know, a man in menopause. And I just could watch the whole movie. I thought, oh, I feel like I watched a film about my father.

[Craig Ferguson]

It's funny. Yeah, I know what you mean. Did you kind of reunite with your father? Did you manage to form a relationship with him at all? Is he still around?

[Paulina Porizkova]

He's still around. I made an attempt a few times here and there to see if we could perhaps have some sort of relationship. And then I always sort of came away with, he's not really worth it. So. No. No.

[Craig Ferguson]

Okay.

[Paulina Porizkova]

It does set you up for a lifetime full of looking for the wrong man.

[Craig Ferguson]

Do you think you did that? You were looking for the wrong man for sure, yeah. Oh, dear, that is upsetting. So you're in New York and now by this time, you know, through all of these, you know, this is going on, you're now one of the supermodels. Right. And that's what they were calling you girls. Like, then you were the kind of. Were you the first wave of supermodel Cash? You kind of were, right?

[Paulina Porizkova]

Yeah. I mean, you know, I can't toot my own horn because I'm Eastern European, but thank you for. Thank you for mentioning it yourself. Yes.

[Craig Ferguson]

So what does that do to a person of obvious intelligence? That the message you're getting is that you have this. This weird power which is clearly marketable. You're very successful, you're making good money, and you're world famous and all you have to do is be you.

[Paulina Porizkova]

Well, actually, well, it's not about.

[Craig Ferguson]

Not as simple as that.

[Paulina Porizkova]

In some ways, it's simpler. All you have to do is show up.

[Craig Ferguson]

Right.

[Paulina Porizkova]

But whether you are you or somebody else entirely different inside really doesn't matter. What it does is that for a woman, it sort of sets you up for feeling like the only thing of importance about you is the way you look.

[Craig Ferguson]

Right.

[Paulina Porizkova]

So any needs or wants or desires or thoughts that you have are absolutely unimportant. And it sort of reassures you that that is, in fact the case. So I think a lot of models, we have a hard time trying to find, just find out who we are, you know, who we are outside this facade that everybody has us sort of narrowed down to just being a shell.

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[Craig Ferguson]

How did you find yourself? How did you find out where you were? How was there a process that you went through that was conscious? Or did it. Did it just happen or. I mean, I feel like. I assume. I don't know why I assume this, but it seems to me like you seem to me like someone who reads, who is connected, who is interested in the arts, and then politically motivated as well. Would that be correct?

[Paulina Porizkova]

That would be correct. Although it didn't seem to matter very much to literally anybody but perhaps myself.

[Craig Ferguson]

Well, that's good, though, that it matters to you.

[Paulina Porizkova]

It's also infinitely frustrating.

[Craig Ferguson]

Oh, I'm sure. Yeah, I'm sure. Because no one's going to take you seriously about anything you say at all at any point.

[Paulina Porizkova]

Correct.

[Craig Ferguson]

That would drive me fucking mad. Yeah, it wouldn't. It would drive me fucking mad. I don't know how anyone could fucking put up with that. Did you find yourself getting angry?

[Paulina Porizkova]

I think there was a fair bit of anger, but I'm also scared of anger, so I think I would reduce that anger to contempt. A sort of a slow, simmering contempt for all. For everybody.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, that's actually quite cool. I think that's quite a sort of seething contempt for everyone. I have to say. I find that quite attractive.

[Paulina Porizkova]

So that says something about your own childhood trauma. Yeah.

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[Craig Ferguson]

No kidding. But you did find. I mean, you got married and you had a family in New York City. That all happened to you?

[Paulina Porizkova]

I did. I met my husband when I was 19 and he was 41, and he lied about it and said he was 37. Like, that was a big difference.

[Craig Ferguson]

When did you find out the truth? Presumably before the first child, before we got married. Good.

[Paulina Porizkova]

So, like, five years later.

[Craig Ferguson]

Oh, wow.

[Paulina Porizkova]

Okay. Where he had to come clean, you know, because I was gonna see the birth certificate. So, like, he couldn't really pretend anymore. And I kept thinking, you know, for those five years, I thought things just weren't working out timeline wise, you know, like how old his oldest child was versus how old he said he was. And I KE trying to go back over and go, so how old is Christopher again? And when did you say you have him? And he would sort of skirt by those conversations. But, yeah, I was very much in love with my husband because I feel like I had found. Well, you know how they say that's becoming a cliche now, but you marry Your unfinished business.

[Craig Ferguson]

Is that true?

[Paulina Porizkova]

Oh, yeah, absolutely. It's absolutely true. I found a man who, with some serious narcissistic tendencies, which both of my parents have. And so, you know, I married, I married my parents and tried to convert them into actually liking me. And it worked. It worked for a really long time.

[Craig Ferguson]

That's fascinating. Obviously, what I'm doing is I'm going back through my own romantic history, going alpha. My God, I hate this.

[Paulina Porizkova]

How many times have you been married?

[Craig Ferguson]

Now I'm on number three.

[Paulina Porizkova]

Well, lucky three.

[Craig Ferguson]

But we've been married for, for a while. I mean, I think that's. You married again, didn't you? No, no, you didn't marry, but you're, you're in a relationship now.

[Paulina Porizkova]

I'm in a relationship, yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

Okay. You guys gonna get married?

[Paulina Porizkova]

Well, after my husband died and all the that happened, I heard about some of that.

[Craig Ferguson]

I wasn't gonna bring it up, but.

[Paulina Porizkova]

Yeah, you're welcome to, because everybody else knows it. Yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

I just didn't want to make you roll around in it, you know. I mean, everybody gets happen in their life. I don't want to, like, it's none of my business. I, I. How are you with that kind of thing? Because I get very uncomfortable in my line of work. I'm going to talk that, you know, I talk to you and you've gone through some public, you know, difficulties. I've talked to other people who've gone through, I've been through, whose life doesn't have difficulty, and I still feel a bit seedy. When you talk to people about the difficulties of their life, I'd rather keep it more kind of superficial, I suppose. Well, not, not because, just because I, I don't know, I just don't feel like I'm not a journalist. Do you know what I mean? I'm not trying to. You don't seem bothered by, by discussing that kind of thing.

[Paulina Porizkova]

No, I, you know, what I've noticed is that I'm really curious. I'm really genuinely curious. And, and by sort of airing out my life very forthrightly and openly on Instagram, which is I did by accident. I was just so fucking desperate, I didn't really know what else to do. It brought all these connections to me, other people that maybe had similar experiences, and it sort of opens up all these channels of connection, which I really appreciate. And so it's a different lifestyle, it's a different life. It's that, that thing that you like so much, the contempt. Yeah. That I've let go Of, Yeah, that's healthy. I am much happier for it. Yes. I mean, I was very good at it. I had lots and lots of years of it.

[Craig Ferguson]

But also, you know, you're an Eastern European supermodel. It's kind of a good look to be sort of haughty, you know? Is it kind of. I hate everyone, darling.

[Paulina Porizkova]

Just leave me alone. You are, you know, I am far superior to you.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Paulina Porizkova]

But I was. But that was never me. That was never me.

[Craig Ferguson]

I don't get that from you at all.

[Paulina Porizkova]

Yeah, I'm essentially a very kind of goofy, nerdy. I know all. It's like, oh, pretty women say they are nerdy, but I truly am. I read a lot. Like I'm not. I'm not fabulous.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah. I don't know. People that read a lot can be fabulous. You're pretty fab. I think you're pretty fabulous. What do you read? What are you drawn to? Do you read historical fiction? Do you read hardcore physics manuals? What are you drawn to?

[Paulina Porizkova]

Okay, so maybe a little lighter on the hardcore physics manuals.

[Craig Ferguson]

Okay.

[Paulina Porizkova]

Huh. But otherwise I read pretty much everything.

[Craig Ferguson]

Oh, really?

[Paulina Porizkova]

I'm kind of indiscriminate in food and reading. But no longer in my men.

[Craig Ferguson]

No, no, I think that that's a very wise choice.

[Paulina Porizkova]

Right.

[Craig Ferguson]

What about writing? Because you wrote a very interesting article. Was it the New York Times? You wrote that, America. You made me a feminist.

[Paulina Porizkova]

Yeah, yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

I had some pretty swag. Are you writing more? Are you writing books?

[Paulina Porizkova]

Yeah. So I think when I was on your show, I think I had published my novel. You had published a novel? Because I read your novel, which was very good. I was going to ask you, are you right. Are you writing more?

[Craig Ferguson]

You know what, I've been writing a follow up novel to that novel for the past 15 years. I think it's hard. It's hard. Well, you have, did you write. Did you write another novel? Have you written another novel?

[Paulina Porizkova]

Not a novel. I wrote a book of personal essays that was, that came out two years ago and that was actually incredibly rewarding. I wrote it in three months.

[Craig Ferguson]

Wow.

[Paulina Porizkova]

So I know a fellow writer can. Yeah, yeah.

[Craig Ferguson]

That's amazing. What did you just binge it? Did you just like 16 hours a day, that kind of thing?

[Paulina Porizkova]

Yeah, yeah. Every day, 16 hours. I wanted to see if I could do it.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Paulina Porizkova]

The challenge of it. And I could do it so I'll never do it again. But that was. Yeah, it was kind of crazy. But I did do it. And it was, you know, it was. But it was in a time. It was after my husband's death and all of the shit that happened and Covid and losing my house and all of this stuff. And so all. All the things I wanted to write about were, like, right there, you know, they were all occupying my brain for the last two years anyway. So it was just kind of like, slash the vein, bleed all over the.

[Craig Ferguson]

Paper, and I totally understand. It's a great way to find some kind of relief if you're in distress, psychic distress, to write. I think it somehow. I think it's a little bit to do what we talked about right at the beginning. It's about control, that if you write it down, you're in charge of it. You know, I mean, when I wrote that novel, I was going through a divorce. It was very difficult and, you know, and I had no control over it. You know, I didn't know where it was going next. But if I could go to the book and I write a book, I knew where everyone was going to go because I put them there, and it kind of helped. Do you think you write more?

[Paulina Porizkova]

Oh, absolutely. I mean, I kind of feel like writing is what I really do now, even on. Even on my Instagram thread. What I really use it as is like an outlet for my writing, for things I think of, that I want to put down. I sort of detest the fact that it has to be followed with a picture and now more recently, videos, because that is. I mean, it's. It's all completely narcissistic anyway, but, like, it's really pushing the envelope now. It's like. But that's. I. I appreciate the fact that I get to have a voice and I get to use it in the way that I want.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah, no, I hear you. What about the, like, social media? Because when I was on Instagram, I'm not on anymore. I used to follow you on any Instagram. So I would see your posts and stuff like that with your, you know, your anger and stuff. And. And it was, you know, it was great, but I didn't. I've come off. I have, like, people who do it now because I. I cannot interact with the amount of. I. I don't know. I just don't like it. It feels like unfiltered negativity pouring at me. I don't like it.

[Paulina Porizkova]

Well, it can be that. And then it can also be like sort of unquestionable positivity, which you also feel like you don't deserve.

[Craig Ferguson]

That's true. And I also don't Know if I like that?

[Paulina Porizkova]

Yeah, no, I know I don't like it. Whenever somebody says, actually my boyfriend was saying that the other day. He's like, oh, I'm so proud of you. And I was like. And then he sort of stopped and said, you don't like when I say that, do you? I was like, no, no. That's a very blanket statement to me. That doesn't mean anything. It just. It's more about you than it is about me.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Paulina Porizkova]

And that sort of unfiltered adoration that you can get off of social as well as unfiltered hate, they're both kind of in the same basket of. They need to be put aside. They're not. They don't matter now.

[Craig Ferguson]

I. Complicated. It's a complicated emotion. I'm not quite sure. Because you want to be nice to people who like you and you don't want to be nice to people who dislike you. And the truth is, I don't think it really matters that much. You know, it's one of those things. In fact, it was Tomas who said it because I was getting upset about something on Twitter. This is how long ago it was. It was Twitter years ago. And he said to me with his Eastern European accent, if you don't look, it's not there.

[Paulina Porizkova]

It's kind of like, well, that's bad, isn't it?

[Craig Ferguson]

It's not there. It's not. It's not a thing. If you don't pay any attention to it, it disappears. Yeah, well, very few things in life are true like that. You know, there's like. If I look away, it no longer exists. But I think social media has that. You know, it's like, if I don't look at it, it's not there.

[Paulina Porizkova]

Well, yes, which is true, but then you're not quite. And I don't know that this matters, but what social media does is that it kind of plugs you into. Not if you only follow people that like you or live in your bubble, but when you separate it and look wider, it does sort of cue you into sort of the national malaise or the feelings of where people are at. I find that very interesting. Sort of. It's like an anthropology experiment.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, I get it. It's like your own little market research company. I understand, but it's. I don't know. I think you've done better evolving out of the control freak area than I have. I, like. I don't know.

[Paulina Porizkova]

You still need to control.

[Craig Ferguson]

I'm aware of it and I don't need to control it. But I think, honestly, I don't know if you can relate to this at all. But I think I'm actually quite shy, quite reticent. I don't really like, you know, I feel it's like, not so much shy. That's not right. I think it's unseemly to talk yourself up. And I feel like when I see other people doing it as well, I find it kind of. I don't really want to see you saying how great you are. It feels kind of, like, dumb. And that's why when you said you had contempt for everything, I was like, oh, that's good.

[Paulina Porizkova]

Like, I'm not the only one.

[Craig Ferguson]

No, it's. I don't have contempt for everything. I really don't. I think I'm quite a joyful person. But I. But I get. I'm a Scottish Protestant. I'm uncomfortable nearly all the time.

[Paulina Porizkova]

Yes. Oh, my God. I know that so. Well, like, being a. I mean, I guess an Eastern European Catholic. Yes. Being uncomfortable nearly all the time is sort of what we've been programmed to be. Right.

[Craig Ferguson]

Kind of. There is a moral kind of grace to feeling bad, that it's a plus. Yes.

[Paulina Porizkova]

You're a good person if you feel bad about it.

[Craig Ferguson]

If you feel bad. Yeah. It's kind of weird, right? It's a very weird thing. Look, we're out of time for this thing. Oh, wow. Let me ask you this, though. Have you done a pod? Are you doing a podcast yet? Because, you know, that's next. You have to do a podcast.

[Paulina Porizkova]

Well, you know, everybody and their mother is doing a podcast. No offense to you.

[Craig Ferguson]

Tell me about it. I've got 10 left on the. No, 12 left of this one. And then I have contractually obliged to do no more. And let me tell you, I'll be doing no more. I might do some more. Yeah. I'll talk to.

[Paulina Porizkova]

Okay, so since you were asking me about podcasts, do you enjoy doing them?

[Craig Ferguson]

You know, I do, but the way that we are talking now is I would rather have this. See, I. Let me backtrack it a little bit and answer it in a kind of roundabout way. I feel like when I do a podcast like this, when I talk to someone like you like this on a. On a Zoom call or whatever we're calling it now, I'm as good as anyone else, but I feel like if you and I are sitting in the same room and we're talking to each other, I'm better than most, and I feel like I can do this thing better not over the zoom. So if I continue to do it, I want to do it so that we can all be in. We can be in the same room. Because there's something about the nature of human interaction which. It's okay. I mean, we're talking fine and I'm not holding anything back and I don't get a sense you are either, but somehow there is a. It's just different to be in the room. It creates a different thing.

[Paulina Porizkova]

I agree. I mean, I think that this is where technology, as it joins us together, keeps us apart. I mean, absolutely.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, I think that's exactly. So. So you're not going to do a podcast then?

[Paulina Porizkova]

I'm actually also more interested in talking to real people rather than zooming with people. And I've never liked phone calls. Really?

[Craig Ferguson]

Oh, no, I hate them.

[Paulina Porizkova]

Isn't it such a waste of time?

[Craig Ferguson]

Oh, my God. Just say what you have to say and get off the phone. That's. That's.

[Paulina Porizkova]

Yes, please. Because I can't see how you look on the phone. I can't see your expressions. I can't see the twinkle or the disdain in your eye that I need to see for conversation.

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, it is exactly how I feel about it. I'm like, oh, my God. I. I love talking to people. I love, they say in Ireland, the crack. I love the crack. You know, I love joking and laughing and making fun of each other and flirting and being silly and all of these. I love all of that. But somehow in this environment, it's nearly there. But I think I just prefer it when it's, you know, the live show. Right down to the sense of even, by the way, doing stand up comedy. I don't mind doing it on TV and I don't mind recording a stand up special. But the truth is, the best shows are always in the theater or the club when nobody's got a camera. Those are the best shows.

[Paulina Porizkova]

And still, I mean, even if you're recording it on a camera or whatever, you still are performing it not to the camera, but to an audience. Right?

[Craig Ferguson]

Yeah, but. But the camera doesn't get everything. It just doesn't. It doesn't get it all. It doesn't get everything. And I, I think, you know, we may be the last of a dying breed where, you know, that the, you know that what we're talking about will make no sense to anyone under the age of 50. I don't know.

[Paulina Porizkova]

I know. It's already starting to be a bit like that. What's your. How old is your youngest child.

[Craig Ferguson]

14.

[Paulina Porizkova]

Okay. So. So your 14 year old will look at you. This I'm sure. My. The way my children looked at me and said, mom, were you alive before computers?

[Craig Ferguson]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Paulina Porizkova]

Yes, we were. Are you a. Are you a boomer or a Gen Xer?

[Craig Ferguson]

I. I think I'm actually a boomer. I'm 1962. So height. I'm a boomer. Yeah. So. So get off my lawn, you.

[Paulina Porizkova]

Oh, okay.

[Craig Ferguson]

You did it. And you're a Gen Xer, right?

[Paulina Porizkova]

Yes. I think Gen Xers are the most. Yes, yes. We are the ones that are truly sort of in the. We straddle both sides, I think, more so than anybody else. Sorry.

[Craig Ferguson]

Whereas. Whereas me, I. I. All I do is remember the war and, and when lawnmowers didn't have engines and sink.

[Paulina Porizkova]

The Andrew Sisters.

[Craig Ferguson]

All right, get out of here. It's lovely to talk to you. I'll talk to you in person soon, please.

[Paulina Porizkova]

I think that would be really fun.

[Craig Ferguson]

That would be fun. That would be fun.

[Paulina Porizkova]

All right.

[Craig Ferguson]

It's lovely to see you, polio.

[Paulina Porizkova]

It was really nice to see you too, on this grainy screen.

[Craig Ferguson]

I know it'll look better in computer land.

[Paulina Porizkova]

Yeah, I'm sure it will, but not me.

[Craig Ferguson]

Oh, no. You. You will get out of here. Goodbye. Right, that's the end of our show. Okay.

[Paulina Porizkova]

Okay, fine.

[Cleveland Clinic Advertiser]

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[Ben Walter]

New out of nowhere obstacles. New all or nothing moments. New less than likely triumphs. Season two of the Unshakables podcast has it all. Hi, I'm Ben Walter, CEO of Chase for Business and host of the show. We're excited to bring you more inspiring stories from small business owners who share the what are we gonna do? Moments that ended up changing everything. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. Chase mobile app is available for select mobile devices. Message and data rates may apply. JP Morgan Chase bank and a member FDIC. Copyright 2025 JP Morgan Chase & Co.

[iHeart Podcast Announcer]

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[iHeart Podcast Announcer]

You'Re listening to an iHeart podcast.