Army Ranger, Grappler, Performance Coach: Roman Mori | JP Dinnell Podcast 102

Summary

JP Dinnell Podcast 102: Army Ranger, Grappler, Performance Coach – Roman Mory

Release Date: September 5, 2025
Hosts: JP Dinnell & Lucas Pinckard
Guest: Roman Mory (Former Army Ranger, Jiu Jitsu Brown Belt, Performance Coach)

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the journey and mindset of Roman Mory—a former US Army Ranger, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu brown belt, and online performance coach. The conversation traverses Roman’s early setbacks, military service, deep dive into Jiu Jitsu, transition to coaching, and methods for instilling discipline and resilience. Listeners gain practical takeaways on leadership, routine-building, and using adversity as fuel for growth.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Roman’s Background and Journey into the Military

• Introduction and Early Influences
  • Grew up near Portland, Oregon, with a strong family foundation. His father, a police officer and SWAT member, deeply influenced both Roman and his brother (now a Green Beret).
  • Despite his supportive home, Roman admits he “wasn’t the best kid”—athletic but lacked discipline, was immature, and hit his growth spurt late, impacting his sports trajectory.
• Facing Failure and Finding Purpose
  • Struggled with feelings of inadequacy in high school—couldn’t do a pull-up during the presidential fitness test, underperformed in sports.
    • “I was the only male in my high school class who couldn’t do a pull-up... that always stuck with me.” (07:40, Roman)
  • Dropped out of college after one semester, felt directionless, and, on a whim, enlisted in the Army for the hardest possible challenge. Secured “Option 40” contract for Ranger selection.
• Army Ranger Selection and Experience
  • Clarifies the difference between Ranger School (leadership course) and RASP (Ranger Assessment and Selection Program) for serving in the 75th Ranger Regiment.
    • “I thought it was Ranger school, but then I started hearing about ‘the 75th Regiment’... I was so lost at first.” (10:55, Roman)
  • RASP: an intensive 8-week test with a ~2/3 attrition rate in his class.
  • Ranger School: “The worst summer camp you’ll ever go to.” (13:44, Roman)
    Core lessons: leadership under duress, mental fortitude, working in teams under extreme stress.

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2. Leadership, Humility, and Integration in Elite Teams

• Earning Your Place (Even Repeatedly)
  • Despite coming in with a Ranger tab, Roman recounts struggling to integrate after returning from training when his unit returned from a tough deployment.
    • “I was a brand new guy, but I also had a Ranger tab... I kind of had to earn my spot again.” (26:23, Roman)
  • Learned humility: “Even as an overperformer, I had to keep my head down and earn my seat.” (27:03, Roman)
• Leadership and ‘Rangers Lead the Way’
  • Roman and JP align on the principle that leadership is about influence and example, not title.
    • “No great leader in history was a buffoon who just told people what to do.” (23:15, Roman)
  • Both the Rangers and SEALs empowered everyone—regardless of rank—to lead in difficult situations.

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3. Combat Deployments & Deep Life Lessons

• Deployment Stories (Syria & Afghanistan)
  • Roman shares insights from his three deployments (two Syria, one Afghanistan).
    • Initial deployment was more Green Beret-style, training local forces, profoundly different from typical Ranger raids.
    • Afghanistan marked by a mission where several teammates were seriously wounded; hearing friends’ voices after getting shot was a pivotal moment.
      • “Hearing my friends get shot... that’s what made it go from a ‘cool, difficult job’ to, oh my God, this is real.” (39:25, Roman)
  • Realized the true stakes of preparation and why training matters—they’re not just drills; they’re about life and death.
• Loss and Its Impact
  • The death of a beloved squad leader in a car accident fundamentally altered Roman’s outlook and influenced his decision to leave the military.
    • “If he had stayed around... there’s a higher chance I’d have reenlisted.” (28:38, Roman)

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4. Transition to Civilian Life & Emergence in Jiu Jitsu

• Navigating Transition
  • Weighs the pros and cons of staying in the Army versus starting anew:
    • “If I get out at 22, I can seamlessly transition back to being a normal person... My thought was: use all of my experience as a stepping stone, not something I cling to forever.” (45:33, Roman)
• Discovering Jiu Jitsu
  • Inspired by hearing John Danaher on the Joe Rogan Podcast during deployment.
  • Started training at ‘Blind Fury Jiu Jitsu’ (run by a partially blind instructor) and at Fort Benning, where the training was “hard Jiujitsu with a bunch of savages.” (51:54, Roman)
• Covid Disruptions and Persistence
  • Exited Army right as COVID hit (early 2020); undeterred, set up mats in his brother’s garage to keep training.
  • Moved to Tucson for college (finance degree); trained Jiu Jitsu at 10th Planet (during lockdown in secret) and later at Northside Jiu Jitsu.
  • “I was a 4.0 student all the way through college... This time around, I was the military’s paying for it—this is my shot.” (56:41, Roman)

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5. Pursuing Athletic Excellence and Transforming Setbacks Into Opportunity

• Chasing the ‘Athlete’s Dream’
  • Upon graduation, considered a finance career, but decided to give it “one more run” to make it as a professional athlete.
  • Moved to Austin to train with John Danaher and Gordon Ryan. Enjoyed rapid competition success (regional wins, IBJJF opens), but was hampered by a serious knee injury.
    • “I could lock my knee at will... I was getting surgery, but told the VA: I’m competing at Worlds, then you can cut me open.” (66:41, Roman)
  • Won 3 tough matches at NOGI Brown Belt Worlds—even heel hooked a European champion—ultimately lost final via footlock.
• From Injury to Reinvention
  • After surgery, faced “rock bottom”: couldn’t compete, couldn’t train, no job.
  • Committed to producing daily social media (166 days straight) to share his experience and training knowledge—grew business rapidly.
    • “I invested in a camera and lens... I started posting for 166 days straight, put my decade of knowledge out for free, and it paid off.” (72:30, Roman)

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6. Philosophy and Practical Guidance

• Fundamentals First
  • Emphasizes the 80/20 rule across all domains—80% of progress comes from mastering the core 20% of skills, whether in sports, nutrition, or business.
    • “Major in the majors before the minors; get strong and fit, then practice your sport.” (59:35, Roman)
• Discipline & Habit Formation
  • Discipline comes from building non-negotiable routines. Just do the work—even if you don’t love it every day.
    • “Going to the gym and to Jiu Jitsu is not negotiable... These are just what I do.” (61:58, Roman)
  • Building habits is “like pushing a snowball”—the start is the hardest, but momentum makes everything easier.
    • “The hard part is the beginning; accept that, push through, and it gets easier.” (63:54, Roman)
• Notable Daily Routines
  • Not a “wake up at 4 a.m.” guy; prefers to optimize day for productivity, not dogmatic morning routines.
    • “I prioritize sleep and recovery over waking up early for mental toughness. I don’t need to prove that to myself anymore.” (60:27, Roman)
• Leadership in the ‘Real World’
  • Roman’s coaching encompasses combat athletes, busy professionals, and now military candidates—translates lessons from his journey into helping others find discipline and results tailored to their lives.

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7. Mindset: Failure, Adversity, and Ownership

• Final Advice (“Failure is the Beginning”) [95:13]
  • “Everything I’ve accomplished started from a place of failure... Failure is only the end if you give up. It’s not losing until you quit. If you’re at rock bottom, that’s the best time to start something new. Failure is opportunity.” (95:13, Roman)
• Key Message:
  Don’t let failure define you—it’s the beginning of learning, growth, and reinvention.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Army Discipline Shaping Life:
  “It’s not a conscious thing, but after you’ve done difficult things, you just... handle things more.” (14:25, Roman)

• On Integrating Into Ranger Unit:
  “I kind of had to keep my head down and earn my spot again, which is a great lesson for life.” (27:03, Roman)

• On Near-Peer Combat Training:
  “It was extremely anxiety-inducing and, honestly, a little terrifying. Fighting someone that isn’t a near-peer is very different—the cards are stacked for you, not against you.” (77:44, Roman)

• On Why Jiu Jitsu Is Special:
  “In most sports, knowledge doesn’t matter that much. In Jiu Jitsu, it’s huge. Being intelligent, technically proficient, can beat bigger, stronger, more athletic people. That captivated me.” (79:31, Roman)

• On Jiu Jitsu, Military, and Coaching Parallels:
  “Major in the majors before the minors. Consistency and effort over a long period of time is what matters.” (59:35, Roman)

• On Habit Building:
  “The beginning is the hardest part. If you can get through the start, it gets easier. Humans are pattern-driven—once you build a routine, discipline feels natural.” (63:54, Roman)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:54] Roman shares his background and path from Army Ranger to Jiu Jitsu.
• [07:40] Roman recalls his early failures and how they shaped him.
• [10:55] Explains Army Ranger selection and training process.
• [13:44] Ranger School breakdown—the “worst summer camp you’ll ever go to.”
• [23:05] Discussion on leadership philosophy (“Rangers lead the way”).
• [26:23] Integrating into his first unit, humility, and earning respect.
• [39:25] Combat experience: the reality of hearing friends shot, deep lessons.
• [51:54] Starting Jiu Jitsu at Fort Benning and insights comparing gyms.
• [56:41] College years: balancing academic discipline and Jiu Jitsu.
• [66:41] Full-throttle commitment to competitive Jiu Jitsu.
• [72:30] Pivot to social media and online business post-injury.
• [95:13] Roman’s closing wisdom—failure as a catalyst for growth.

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How to Connect with Roman

• Instagram & TikTok: @RomanJiuJitsu
• YouTube: Roman Mory (Roman Jiu Jitsu)
• Coaching Inquiries: DM via Instagram or book a call through his linktree.

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Roman’s Final Advice

“Failure is not losing until you give up. If you’re feeling like you’ve reached the end of the road, that’s the best time to start something new... Failure is opportunity—if you see it that way. It’s the beginning.” — Roman Mory (95:13)

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Additional Information

• Coaching: Roman offers online strength, conditioning, nutrition coaching for combat athletes, professionals, and even military candidates.
• Partner Business: Co-owner of Choju Life (electrolytes and amino-acids supplement company).
• Current Training: Kingsway Jiu Jitsu (with Gordon Ryan & John Danaher).

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Summary

In this episode, Roman Mory shares a candid, humble, and highly actionable account of using adversity—early failures, military hardships, injury setbacks—as the bedrock for future success. Whether on the battlefield, the competition mat, or in business, Roman’s core message resounds: master the fundamentals, lean into challenge, and see failure as the beginning, not the end.

This is a must-listen for anyone seeking to cultivate discipline, build habits, and thrive through life’s inevitable setbacks.

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For More

• Connect With Roman: @RomanJiuJitsu on Instagram and TikTok
• JP Dinnell Podcast: All episodes and show info on Instagram @jpdonellpodcast
• Echelon Front: Leadership coaching, muster events, and leadership resources at echelonfront.com

Transcript

[A]

Good morning. This is the JP Donnell podcast, episode 102. I am JP Donnell, and I'll, as always, have Lucas with me. Today we have an incredible guest, someone who embodies discipline, resilience, and the warrior mindset, which I know is very intriguing to a lot of our listeners. Roman is a former US Army Ranger, a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu brown belt, a fitness and health coach who has dedicated his life to helping others grow stronger, not just on the mats, but in life. I'm looking forward to being able to learn from today. On this episode, we're going to dig into Roman's journey, what his child was like, his transition into the military, what he learned as a Ranger in some of the toughest environments in the world, how he found Jiu Jitsu, how Jiu Jitsu gave him a new battlefield for growth, and the lessons he carries into leadership, family, and everyday life. If you're looking for insights on discipline, ownership, and what it really takes to push past your limits, I feel that you guys are going to get a ton of value out of this conversation. Roman, I'm fired up to have you on the podcast, man. How are you doing today?

[B]

I'm doing great. Thank you guys so much for having me.

[A]

Awesome. Lucas, how are you?

[C]

You know, I'm. I'm recovering from Jiu Jitsu, Khan. That's what I'm redoing.

[A]

Yeah, we, Roman, we had a really cool opportunity with a company called Fighters Passport, and they are big supporters of the Jesus and Jiu Jitsu Ministry that Lucas and I are a part of. And they gave us a booth set up at Jiu Jitsu. Com to help grow the ministry through exposure and retail sales, which was a huge blessing. Yeah, so that's awesome. It was pretty awesome. All right, Roman, for those of, like, if someone doesn't know you, they don't know your story, and if you're meeting somebody, let's say we're flying on a plane together or we meet, you know, randomly. How do you introduce yourself? Like, what. How do you tell people who you are and what you do currently?

[B]

Well, right now, it's. It's a little awkward because I have to admit that I do social media for a job, but if I had to give, like, a little rundown of, you know, who I am or what I do. Yeah, you hit a couple of them in the introduction. So. I was a former Army Ranger. I served in the 75th Ranger Regiment for a few years. Following that, I went to college and graduated with a finance degree. And during college, I Found like a strong passion for Jiu jitsu. So I was competing a lot and kind of then locally, regionally, but never quite cracking the pans or kind of world stage of competition. And so I ended up moving to Austin, Texas as trainer to John Danaher to pursue that and. And kind of try to be a profess grappler. And I trained my. Trained my butt off for a year and a half under him. I did pretty well on the competition scene. I ended up taking a silver medal at Nogi World Brown Belt. But then I was forced out of competition for a little bit and injured my knee, where I had to get surgery, which is what prompted me to start posting on social media. And once I started posting on social media, that kind of took off and I started a business of online training people. I've been training people in person when I was in college to, you know, earn some extra money on the side. But I ended up taking, you know, my decade of training experience and everything, started that business, which has just kind of led to. And social media's kind of just led to tons of different opportunities for me. So that's kind of how I ended up where I am right now. And a little bit about my background.

[A]

I love it. Yeah. I remember when I first actually came across your Instagram page. It was in my algorithm. And as I was looking at your page and my page and the. The interest that I have, I was like, okay, this guy is awesome. Obviously, it's very apparent that you are very physically fit, very healthy, very strong. Saw that you did jiu jitsu, Army Ranger. I was like, oh, dude. Like, this is. This is my guy. This is the type of people I like to have my life. And I was. The first video was somebody. It was a. It was a clip that you edited, and it was somebody that was basically talking trash on how you were lifting and trying to say that if you did certain things, you would be a better athlete. And then you showed a clip from their page and it was somebody who is not in shape, who is not strong, who is struggling to lift minimal weight. And I just, I love the way you handled it. It was reminded me of like before Echelon for up my social media, where I would just get a little wild out there. But you. But what I did like, is you keep it professional, though. You have fun with it. I can. I can definitely tell. I was like, okay. He. He definitely has a veteran aspect to him of, hey, you know, I'm not going to put up with like, just bs. And you called Called him out in a. I thought was. Was pretty funny manner. But then as I started digging more, I, I was really intrigued by your, your mindset for lifting and competition. And I think, you know, it was a few weeks I was just looking at some more videos and I reached out asking you to be on the podcast because that's what I really want our listeners is to be able to understand is your mindset. And you know, most of us as humans are molded by our childhood, good or bad. And if you had a good childhood, we build upon it. If we didn't have a good childhood, we decide, hey, you know what, I'm going to change things. And I want to go down this different path. I was very fortunate. I had a great childhood, great parents who instilled us with values of hard work and discipline and, and, and a strong faith background and, you know, service to your nation and taking care of people and helping people. So I was fortunate that I had that. And I know not everybody does. And we've had some listeners on here where their childhoods were like. I mean, there's times where Lucas and I literally have tears running down our face listening to their childhood because I couldn't fathom what that would be like or I couldn't fathom doing that to my kids. And I'm just thankful that I had great parents, aunts and uncles and grandparents, and so did Lucas. But what was your childhood like? Where'd you, where did you grow up?

[B]

So I was born and raised in Oregon right outside of Portland, kind of metropolitan area outside of there. I had a great family, so I had, you know, a upstanding, like both parents are still in the picture, everything like that. My dad was definitely like the biggest role model in my life. My dad's a police officer. Swap team.

[A]

Oh, dude, let's go.

[B]

Career as a police officer. Yeah. So that definitely shaped me and my brother's path in life. My brother's actually currently a captain in Special Forces. He's a Green Beret in, in North Carolina. So obviously my dad had a big impact on me and my brother. But personally, my childhood, like, I was not the best kid. I was kind of, kind of a screw up in many ways. You know, just I wasn't a great kid. I wasn't. Didn't take school super ser. Seriously. I was, I was a smart kid. I was athletic and everything like that. But one of the kind of things that drove a lot of my later decisions in life was I grew really late in high school and a lot of my passions and interest in high school was like, sports and athleticism. And I was always a really good athlete growing up. But then I hit high school and I was behind because I was a small kid. I was like five, two. I was, I didn't hit a growth spurt till I was like a junior in high school. And so a lot of the reasons that I did things later in life was kind of started from a place of like, failure. I was, I remember in high school we did the presidential, like, fitness test or something like that, and there was a section where they had to do the pull ups. Yeah, right.

[A]

Y.

[B]

And I was the only male in my high school class who couldn't do a pull up. Like, I had to go do that pull ups on like the assisted pull up machine.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I remember that being like a very embarrassing thing for me. And I remember, like, not doing well in sports in high school. And so that always, like, stuck with me at this place of like, kind of I'm a failure almost. And then I. I went to college for like a semester right out of high school, and I dropped out. So I was, I was in this place in my life right post high school and like dropping out of college of like, what am I going to do? Like, I feel like a failure. I have no direction, no purpose. What am I going to do? And I sort of felt like, okay, I'm at rock. There's only one way to go from there, and that is to do the hardest thing possible. So without talking to my parents, without talking to anybody about it, I literally walked from the campus to the recruiting office and went and signed up for the military. And I was like, I called my brother who was at West Point, right? He was the golden child doing way better than I was. And he was like, get an option 40 contract. And so I, I did that. I signed the contract and then went out and joined. Joined the army.

[A]

That's awesome.

[B]

That's kind of how my childhood shaped getting to the first stage of my life.

[A]

Yeah. How old are you right now?

[B]

I'm 29.

[A]

Let's go. Dude, you've got. Man, those were good years.

[C]

They were.

[A]

Those are good, really good years. That's awesome, man. So how old were you when you were going into the army?

[B]

So I joined the army. It was like 18 and a half, I think by the time I got to like, basic training, I was 19.

[A]

Okay, cool. So for our listeners, what is an option 40?

[B]

So an option 40 contract essentially guarantees you a slot to what's called the Ranger assessment. And Selection program.

[A]

Got it.

[B]

So I think a lot of people are under the assumption that Ranger school is the thing that kind of signifies being an Army Ranger. And I have a Ranger tab. I've been to Ranger school, but that's actually kind of a. It's a leadership school in the. In the army, so anybody can actually go to Ranger school.

[A]

Yeah, I was slotted.

[B]

You probably know, you probably have SEALs who've been to Ranger school.

[A]

Yeah, I was supposed to go to Ranger school my second platoon. When we were doing our workout for Ramadi, I. I really wanted to go. Was had as an option. And then we found out we're doing a short condensed workup, and it was like, well, you can go to Ranger school or sniper school. And I was like, oh, sniper school.

[B]

Yeah, you made the right choice.

[A]

What? Yes. However, comma, if I. I wish more than anything I could have done better both. Because when we were in Ramadi, working with those soldiers and those Marines, having that Ranger tab would have been very helpful for building stronger relationships with the army faster, I think. But, I mean, we. We did a great job. I mean, we love those soldiers. I mean, the Battle of Ramadi was epic. The 1st 506 Infantry Division, you know, it was all. Those guys were absolutely incredible. Nothing but respect for soldiers and Marines that we worked with. And I've always wanted to be able to interview a Ranger because I just kind of want to learn more about Ranger school because I know the process that you're talking about. Not a lot of people know and understand.

[B]

Okay, I didn't. I thought. So I went to basic training with my option 40, and I thought it was Ranger school, like, after. And I remember somebody saying, dude, my lifelong dream is to be in the 75th Ranger Regiment. I'm like, what is that? I'm like, I thought, we're going to go be Army Rangers. What is the 75th? How many of these regiments are there? So after. After getting to basic training and really fleshing out more and, you know, talking to other people, I was like, oh, okay, we're going to Rasp. I guess that's a different thing. So Rasp, which is the. The guaranteed slot 2 with the option 40, is definitely different than Ranger school. When I went. And obviously, I don't know how it is now. This was back in 2015, so it's 10 years ago. Yeah, I guess 2016, when I went to RAS, so nine years ago, it was about. It was eight weeks. So the first four weeks is kind of the, like, break you down phase. And then the next four weeks is there's a little bit of training, things like demolitions training, marksmanship, things like that. So hard for. Learning for. But still you're in a training environments and they're not treating you the best. It's not a gentleman's course.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then upon completion of that, I think I start. We started with somewhere around like 183 people, and I think we graduated like 50 or 60, something like that. So maybe like two thirds attrition, something like that. And some classes are more or less, I've heard, like, you know, 70s or 80s graduating or like numbers or, you know, 30s or 20s, so depending on the class. Mine was probably somewhere in the middle. I'm not the. I walked. I walked both ways uphill in the snow type of person, you know, mine was probably around the moderate amount that anybody else's was, which is. But then. Yeah, go ahead.

[A]

No, I was just gonna say. Which is nice.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And then upon getting to the unit. So you get the 75th Ranger Regiment. You know, you're a brand new guy. You're a private, you know, just the. The. The grunt. You're the lowest on the totem pole. And then the way you climb up the totem pole, the first step is to go to Ranger school, which earns you a Ranger tab. And that allows you to then in the future, take on leadership positions. So the next step for me was going to Ranger school. And this kind of goes into the condensed timeline that I got lucky with that we were talking about before we started, which is when I showed up to my unit, which was Bravo Company, 3rd Ranger Battalion. They were actually on deployment. And so they like, okay, we don't really know what to do with these guys right now. So they sent three of us to Ranger school. Two of them failed, and I passed. So I got to go to Ranger school. I went straight through. I was honestly, like, that was probably the best way to approach Ranger school is right out of rasp. I'm in shape. I'm super motivated. I'm. I'm ready to go. So kind of got lucky again with that timing and just the way it shook out. But we can talk more about Ranger school if you. If you want to talk about it. But Ranger school is. Ranger school is a trip. It's like a. The worst summer camp you'll ever go to.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, I'm very intrigued by how the army shaped Ranger School because there's no denying that, you know, if somebody's been through all those things that you've gone through. They have discipline, they have dedication, they have mental fortitude, the ability to shut the brain off and just do what you're supposed to do, which I'm willing to bet has been great for your jiu jitsu journey and what you do in business and just life in general. Like, these are principles that, that you'll use if you want, for the rest of your life to help you work through things. And yeah, if you want to, you know, give us a peek behind the curtain, I think that would be awesome.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, just to touch on what you said briefly, like, I think it doesn't, it's not a conscious thing for me of like, I've been through difficult stuff. So everything else is easy because everything is like, it doesn't make other things easy per se, but it definitely, you definitely have an unconscious ability to just kind of handle things more. I feel like, like, you know, that you've done difficult things or, you know, you've been tested, you know, you know, it's like to feel the feelings of difficulty. I think people think that it's like you do something really hard and then it's all of a sudden like, oh, you're doing 100 push ups and this is easy. And it's like, it's not, it's not that it becomes easy, it's just that you know what it feels like to go through something difficult and so you're more inoculated to it than you are otherwise. But yeah, just briefly going through kind of how Ranger school looks is. And once again, I think they've changed it a little bit since then. This was 2016, so, you know, eight years of difference. There's the first thing that you happens when you get there is Rap week. So that's kind of the introductory introductionary phase. I don't even know if that's a word, but intro phase, where they take you through physical fitness, testing, obstacle courses, things like that. And that, that, that's not fun because it's one. It's not, it's not a gentleman's course. And for anybody that doesn't know what that means, it. They're not treating you like a human being, but you get, you know, you have to do pushups, sit ups, running, rucking, things like that. And then you'll do like rope climbing, a bunch of like physically demanding obstacle courses. You do things like you climb up like a, I think it's probably 10 meters and walk across a log kind of test like your fear against like heights, things like that. And Then you hang from a rope, jump in, you do things called the slide for life, which is you climb up a big tower, grab onto like sort of a zipline thing and slide into the water. So there's all. All kinds of things like that meant to test you mentally and physically.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

And then after that, you go to the first phase, which is Darby phase. So this is the squad based training. So the way that Ranger school works is Darby phase is squad, and then mountains in Florida is platoon. So Darby phase, or really in any of the phases, you have two opportunities called looks to graduate to the next phase. And what they're grading you on, on those looks is you're placed into a leadership position. And then based on how you perform under, you know, planning pressure, the assault phase, the all that kind of stuff, you're either given a go or a no go. So in the squad environment, you're placed as either the squad leader or the team leader. And generally they will place. Because there's officers and enlisted in Ranger school, they give the officers the bigger leadership position. Now sometimes they place enlisted in the squad leader position right off the bat, sometimes not. But typically once you reach the later phases too, they'll place the off. The officers will always get a look at being the, like platoon leader.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And the enlisted will usually get looks at being the squad leaders when you get to the platoon phases. But anyway, Darby happens in Georgia, which is hot, it's muggy, it's terrible. And it's essentially like simulating Vietnam era style tactics. So you basically do FTXs where you venture out into the forest, you have a map and a compass, and you kind of plan a mission where you set up like a patrol base, plan the mission, walk all the way to the mission, do the assault, clear it, and then go on to the next objective, set up a patrol base for the night. And you just kind of do that. And I think Darby is 3 days rest. 3 days. And then Mountains is 5 days rest. 5 days. And then Florida is one long 10 day FTX.

[A]

Nice. What portion of Ranger school is it that they talk about that you only get one MRE a day? Or is that still.

[B]

Let me think. I'm trying to remember. I think at least when I went, we had two every day I'm trying to remember that. It's a little fuzzy for me, which is still.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Which is still not.

[B]

I think we always had two.

[A]

Okay. Yeah.

[C]

I mean, he's 29. Like, his memory's probably starting to go. You know, he's getting up There in years.

[B]

Not in the hearing.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. The hearing's been gone for a while. Maybe it was just like a. Maybe it was just a rumor mill that when you go through ranger school, you only get one MRE a day. That was probably. That could be one of those things, because it's. I also, like, have had people like, okay, so in buds, like, when do they drown you and bring you back to life? I'm like, never. Never. That would be a horrible plan for training. Now. Do people drown in training? Yes. However, comma, that is not an intentional thing. So I wonder if that's one of those things. And the, The. The land navigation portion of ranger school is, I heard, pretty legit. And that's what drew me to it because I love land navigation. I love that.

[B]

I forgot about that. Yeah, yeah. There's. So in. In rap week, you're. You're tested on a full, like a large scale land navigation course. And luckily, once again, in rasp, you are as well. And so coming fresh out of that, I. That was, you know, right there.

[A]

Oh, you were like golden.

[B]

Land navigation in the army is. It's kind of bs, I'm not gonna lie.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

The. The principles are sound. How to use a map and a compass is really sound. But the way that everybody executes land navigation is kind of cheating. And the way that land navigation happens is you basically just walk on designated trails that are on the map until you hit a, like, point.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Say like a crossing road.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then you shoot your azimuth to the point that you're trying to find interesting. So you're not just going through the woods.

[A]

So you're not train navigating.

[B]

Fine. Yeah. It's not just. I mean, there is terrain navigation.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But like, I'll give you an example. So here's a big map. There's a point over here you have to find, and there's roads going like this through the map. You walk the road until you get to the closest intersection or like, road. And then you go, okay, the point is 300 meters into the woods. So you walk 200 meters up the road, shoot an azimuth to the point from the road, and then you start walking into the forest. And you realize thousands of other people have also done this. Land navigation.

[A]

Got it.

[B]

So there's foot trails. The real test is it's at night in pitch black, under stress.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you have night vision on. So obviously it's a single tube, like PVS14 or something. So it's terrible. And it's Ranger school. So it's all battered and broken.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But it's really, in my opinion, a confidence test of, like, nice. You shoot your azimuth, you go out into the forest, and sometimes you'll. There'll be a trail. Sometimes there won't be. Sometimes there might be one or two going this way or that way. And you just have to believe in yourself of, like, I'm gonna follow my azimuth. I'm gonna find this point, and you will get lost a few times. But in my opinion, land navigation is less about, like, going through, like, a national forest and reading, like, contour lines and finding your way through, like, ridges and valleys and stuff, and more about just being confident that, like, I'm going to go find this point and I will make it back in time.

[A]

That's cool.

[B]

And a lot of people break under that pressure, like, land navigation. Land navigation and the PT test are probably two of the biggest getters in rap week.

[A]

That's awesome. Another funny question. I have to ask you that because I get this often on my end. Do you have the ranger creed memorized?

[B]

Not anymore.

[A]

People ask me, like, do you have the seal creed memorized? I'm like, nope. Is there anything, though, that you do remember from the ranger creed that just, like, sticks out that something that, you know, you always kind of held to, or is it just. Just principle in general?

[B]

Yeah, I think it's definitely the principle. There's definitely a few lines here and there that I'll remember from time to time. But I think that just, like, the principle in general of, like, you know, always giving it your all, never leaving a man behind, like, there's, like, just the guiding principles that I feel like pretty much everybody in the military, and honestly, very specifically to people in special operations, like, kind of live by whether they know it's conscious or unconscious.

[A]

Yeah, I just. Yeah, I. I love the whole rangers lead the way.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

That. That just whole principle for life is pretty badass.

[B]

Yes. And I think. I think that line, too, embodies, like, what being a leader is. And I think leadership is often lost on people in the sense of, like, it's telling people what to do. And in reality, it is that line. Right. As rangers lead the way, it's that you lead from the front. It's like, no great leader in history ever was just, like, a buffoon who just told people what to do.

[A]

I'm glad that you said that, man. Like, I know you. I don't even know if you've listened to episodes of this Podcast before, but that is one of the things that we talk about a lot is a misconception of what leadership is. It's building a relationship and having the ability to influence the people around you. Your title doesn't make you a leader. It's your ability to influence the people around you. 100 and Rangers. Rangers are great at empowering their men to step up in any position. It doesn't matter what your rank is. Doesn't matter. Your title is like, hey, we expect rangers to step up and lead. That's why Rangers lead the way. And it was the same thing in the SEAL teams. I remember when I was a new guy, hey, you were expected to step up, lead, make decisions. You know, in my second task unit when, you know, Jocko was our task unit commander, that was one of the big things that he did with us is like, hey, I need you to step up and lead and be more aggressive with your leadership. And it was. And that's what a good leader does, is he empowers the men, you know, outside the military, men and women. Right. To step up and lead. And I think it's cool how you guys, you know, there's obviously a lot of synergy there. Yeah. Okay. So you make it through all that training, your unit comes back. What is it like integrating into that unit?

[B]

I had a hard time because.

[A]

I.

[B]

Was supposed to be a brand new guy, a private. And by all, I'll put this as professionally as possible. When you are a brand new person in a special operations unit, you don't get treated the best.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And there may or may not be some sort of, you know, rituals and things that happen to newer guys in the unit.

[A]

Yeah. Rhymes with hazing, but not hazing.

[B]

Yeah, no, no, of course not.

[A]

Of course not.

[B]

But anyway. And obviously I went through some of that when I first showed up because there was people like, you know, in the rear or whatever who didn't deploy. There's always people behind. But I didn't have it nearly to the extent that the two guys that failed Rangers and are now there got it. And so for me, it was weird because I was brand new, but I also had a Ranger tab, which protects you from being a brand new guy from those things because now you're not just a private, you're a tab. So they got back from, honestly, a very. It was. It was kind of a debacle of a deployment. It was called Green Sword. I'm not going to go into it in any meaningful manner because I wasn't actually there, but it Was. It's a pretty big debacle. There was a couple people who got injured, and it was kind of just a message. And so they came back not in the greatest of moods.

[A]

Got it.

[B]

And so it was weird for me to try to integrate into the unit because I was a tab, but I was new, and they're coming back from actual war, and they're like, who the hell are you? Right. So I kind of had to go through that growing process of, like, kind of earning my spot again, even though I succeeded. I went to ranger school and went straight through, but it seemed like I was less a part of the group group than the two people who failed.

[A]

That's crazy. It was.

[B]

It was a weird situation for me, and so I just kind of had to keep my head down and just kind of earn my. My spot seemingly again, which is a.

[A]

Great lesson for life.

[B]

Yeah, go ahead.

[A]

I'm sorry. That's what you just said, and I. I didn't want to interrupt you, but I really want our people to listen to what you just said. Earning your spot is an important trait to have, which shows that you had a tremendous amount of humility, because for you to have to be able to just say, okay, cool. You know what? Hey, I made it through ranger school. I'm tabbed up. They're treating me like I'm not. They're giving these other guys different treatment that failed, because in your mind, you got to be like, bro, these guys failed. I'm better than them. But obviously, you're not going to say that. You're not. You're not going to act that way. And so I just wanted our listeners to really at least grasp that is the. The mindset and mentality that you had of just straight humility of, like, you know what? Cool. All right. I don't agree with this. This sucks. But I'm gonna. I'm gonna earn. Earn my seat here.

[B]

Yeah, definitely. I mean, I was. I was 20 years old, so I'm not gonna say I treated it with perfect grace. You know what I mean? Like, it sounds great in hindsight of, like, me re earning my spot, but, like, there was definitely times I would go back to, like, my barracks room or whatever, and I'm like, Like, what. What would you want me to do? Go and fail and be a loser? Like, what did you want me to do? You know what I mean? So, yeah, I definitely. I definitely didn't handle it, like, perfectly all the time, so I'm not gonna. I don't want to make it sound like that because it was incredibly frustrating and aggravating to essentially be an over performer and get treated like trash, you know, a loser. So yeah, that definitely sucked.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But things definitely got better over time for sure. And I remember when I, when I made it to gun team leader, which is like the next leadership position above being just a tab, I had a really phenomenal squad leader who definitely like helped me feel like I was definitely way more a part of the, of the unit. Unfortunately, two months into that, he got into a car accident and died. So that was another massive hit to like, it kind of, you know, painted the, the picture of me being in the military. A lot of like having these ups and downs. I going to stay in and am I going to stick with this? Because like, if, honestly I feel like if he had stayed around, if he was still alive, like there's a, a lot higher possibility of me probably reenlisting and staying in for longer. His name was James Perez. He was a phenomenal Ranger. He deployed like seven times. Just an absolute stud. He's been shot. And the worst part about dying in a car accident is there's a large memorial in the center courtyard of, you know, the battalion that memorializes all the rangers who perished in combat. And it's like his name is not written there. But yeah, he was a phenomenal guy.

[A]

Yeah, I'm sorry, brother. That's. Yeah. Losing someone like that is hard. It doesn't matter if you lose him in combat or a car accident or cancer, loss of a loved one. Someone who has impact over your life is, it's something you'll, you'll carry with you until the day you die because of the impact that he had on you, man. And yeah, yeah, so he passes away. That's obviously a huge hit to you and the unit. Where are you, where are you guys at in training? Are you guys training to go back overseas? Like, what time frame is this? Like, what, what's on the horizon for you? Like, what's your focus in your mission right now?

[B]

Yeah, so I actually skipped over briefly before I was promoted to gun team leader. I went on my first deployment. I went to Syria. We were some of the first rangers, like boots on the ground in Syria. And that was kind of, that was a strange deployment because it wasn't our typical, you know, mission set. It wasn't our typical like, job that we trained for. Like our thing as US Army Rangers is the direct raid, right? It's direct action raid, like, you know, fly in, in a helicopter, land on the doorstep, set isolation and containment. Either call the people out, go and assault that. Grab somebody or something and leave.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And we weren't doing that in Syria. It was just like almost a Green Beret style mission of training the local forces and supporting them through, you know, like, QURF or, you know, like just medical support, things like that. So it was a very strange deployment. It wasn't something that I was trained for, and it wasn't something that I even really knew how to do. So it was really cool. It was a really cool experience, you know, seeing, like, these super brave dudes. Like, we would be on the, like, the flot, right. And we would just watch like, these 12. What was there? I can't remember. They're. They're Kurdish fighters.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, yeah, the Kurdish. Awesome. They're. Yeah, they're.

[B]

There's some bad dudes. And they would just, like, climb into a Bongo truck with AK47s, turn their hazards on because that would get them through the checkpoints and then just like, drive to war. And it was like, damn.

[A]

Well, you know, they had to be in a dump truck because of the oversized gear they were carrying.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, yeah, Syria was a trip. Wasn't anything crazy that happened on that deployment. We got back, and then the stuff that I discussed. Yeah. Happened.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And then. Then we started preparing for the next deployment. So it was our rotation to go to Afghanistan, like Bagram. And that was. That's way more in line with kind of like the typical training. So prepare for that. And then I think it was, let's see, 2017, late 2017, something like that, that maybe 2019, these years kind of meshed together.

[A]

Oh, I get it.

[B]

Went to Afghanistan for my second deployment.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And once again, this is just like, me getting lucky. Like, there's so many people, especially in the later, like, 2010s, where the war is kind of slowing down. Things are beginning to like to take the foot off the gas. And so I. I know guys who had been in for five, six years and, like, hadn't deployed. I know that sounds crazy, but, like.

[A]

It'S a common thing, man. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. And it's like, I. I have three deployments by sheer luck and timing. It has nothing to do with me being super great or amazing. It was just like. It just so happened that they called on us to go to certain places. And so, yeah. Second deployment was Afghanistan. We went to Bagram. Did you know? I mean, obviously it wasn't. It's not 2005, 2008. It wasn't insane but we went on a couple dozen missions or something like that. Did the usual ranger missions of. Of raids and things like that. So that was cool. Got to experience that. I was a gun team leader for that interest. Like, funny. I think. Funniest story I have from that is my very first mission ever. It's like 8 degrees. It's, like, freezing cold. I thought, by the way, the Middle east was hot. It's not. We're in the mountains of Afghanistan. We're flying in on a. On a Chinook, and they're like, we're gonna do a. We're gonna walk in. So it wasn't a land on the X type of thing. And so we fly into, you know, the mountains or whatever, and we're gonna fast rope out of the helicopter because the actual LZ is not landable, apparently. And so we have to fast rope. But, like, I'm a gun team leader. A. I'm 220 pounds, and I'm carrying seven, six, two. A thousand rounds of ammunition, a tripod, and a spare barrel, bro. So we're hovering over the lz. They told us we were gonna land, but now all of a sudden, you know. You know how loud it is in a helicopter. The guy, the. The crew chief is just like. His mouth is moving and he's waving his hands. And you're just, like, under night vision, too. You're just looking at him like, what is this dude talking about? And so he's trying to tell us, like, put your roping gloves on. We're roping.

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[B]

And. And so, like, I get up and I'm like, oh. Oh, we're putting our roping gloves on, so people are starting to walk, and I'm like, yelling at my gunner, like, grab. Grab my gloves, because they're on the side of my kit, and, like, I can reach them without my pack on. But when I put the pack on with the tripod and the rounds and everything, I'm so immobilized.

[A]

I'm like, I can't reach my gloves.

[B]

And so he's, like, yanking my gloves off as we're walking towards the door. I, like, muster them on, like, oh, my gosh, I gotta get these on, Grab the rope, slide down like a freight train, and just impact the ground. And so I'm like, oh, my back. Oh, I get up, up, run over, you know, take a knee, like, pretending to, like, pull security. I'm like, oh, my God, I'm in so much pain. And then after injuring my back, we walked for three hours. Through the mountains, bouldering over rocks, climbing through icy streams. And I'm, like, trying to, like, you know, rest on my knees every now and again. Like, put my hands on my knees and, like, bend over to, like, rest my lower back. And that set in, like, set in motion a cascade of. You will forever have back pain. Yeah, dummy.

[A]

However, the VA is probably like, these are not service related. Yeah, exactly, bro. That's crazy. How did you like the scenery of Afghanistan?

[B]

I thought, honestly, and I was. I only ever saw it under night vision. Oh, okay. It looked like. This is probably just me being a white dumb person, but, like, it looked like Aladdin sometimes.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

It's like we would be up in the rolling mountains and stuff, and I would, like, look over the horizon. Like, this is crazy.

[A]

It's awesome. So I deployed to Afghanistan and I was south of Kandahar and it was absolutely gorgeous. And when, you know, same thing. We didn't fly helicopters during the day, it was at night. But, like, just Afghanistan is a. The mountains are absolutely beautiful.

[B]

Yeah, Yeah, I remember that's. Kandahar was where I had the experience of. This looks like Aladdin.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was.

[B]

That was. That was nuts.

[A]

It's crazy.

[B]

It's surprising to, like, have the juxtaposition of hopefully somebody doesn't shoot me and wow, look at that pretty mountain.

[A]

Yes, exactly. I've had this conversation with guys before where I was like, man, if it. If. If Afghanistan wasn't full of just the. The bad people there, it would be a place that I'm like. Like, that would be a cool place to go visit. It would be a great place to go vacation, however, comma, it's controlled by people I don't align with or.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Appreciate and people that don't like me. So probably not gonna go there.

[B]

I've seen. I don't know if I would ever do it, but I've seen people, like, going there now and just kind of walking around and I'm like, no.

[A]

Zero chance.

[B]

They don't know. They don't know that I was a Ranger and was deployed here and did missions here. Like, they don't know that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Maybe they could find that information out. Like, I wonder how interesting it would be. Like, go back.

[A]

I've wanted to.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

Yeah, I've. Okay, I'm glad you said that. I've thought about that a lot. You know, there's some. There's some Instagram pages I was scrolling through and checking out like, like tourism of Afghanistan Instagram pages and I was just like, man, what would that be like? And I've also thought about that for Ramadi as well. Like, that would be crazy to go back. I'll, I'll get on Google Maps and go back, back and I'll zoom into the, to Ramadi and look at where we were, where our forward, you know, where our FOB was and, and just like, oh, there's a checkpoint there and oh, that's cool. There's a mall now and there's a swimming pool and there's a rec center and there's a, there's a garden with yogurt. This is crazy. That was the aid station where all of our wounded went and where we'd have to go donate blood to. And now it's a, you know, it's a elementary school. It's just crazy to see the difference. So, yeah, Afghanistan. Yeah, it's very weird. So what was that, what was that whole deployment like for you? I mean, you do a handful of missions. Any takeaways from that deployment that you brought back that, you know, changed the way you thought about training and preparing for things and as a Ranger and then just life in general?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I think that really made it real for me because towards the end of the deployment we went, we went down to Kandahar with the like mission set debt of we're gonna like go and find higher up guys in the ISIS food chain. And we went on a really sketchy mission where four of our guys got injured pretty badly going in to clear a building. And that made it very real for me. And I'm not going to go into like the details or anything for people who are not familiar with like, you know, the military combat and things, but hearing my friends get shot was definitely a eye opening experience for me. Like, not the shooting itself, but their voices. That's what made it real for me. That's what made it go from this is like a cool, difficult job to oh my God, this is, this is real.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so that really set in stone for me like when I got back, like we're not just training to go do things like this. This is life and death. This is life and death.

[A]

That's crazy, man. It's, it's a weird thing when you hear over the radio your friends talking after they've been shot. Yeah, I remember my buddy Cowie, when he was shot, when they were leaving an overwatch position and you hear the gunfire and you recognize your own guy's gunfire. Isn't that crazy? Like, like just how they shoot how it sounds. You're like, oh, that's Mikey, that's Benny, that's Cowie in a gun just waiting. It's a. It's a weird thing. Like, you're waiting and then all of a sudden I remember hearing the radio key up and I remember Cowie saying, hey, lt, this is Cowie. I've been shot. And just the way that made me feel. And like you said, it changes everything, you know, and that wasn't the first time it had happened on our deployment. But those are the things that stick with you when you're training. And I'm willing to bet that this is just a conscious and subconscious mindset that you have for just life in general and training. That's why you train hard. That's why you're healthy, that's why you're strong. That's why you do what you do in life. And you also help other people be able to do the same thing with health and fitness. Do you think that also comes from this moment as well?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I would say yeah. I mean, it also just kind of puts the stakes into perspective of like, life is short, life is finite. It puts, it puts it, it made things. Instead of just kind of like being asleep at the wheel in life too, you realize like, oh, like, this is. This is all I have, right? This is, this is real. And it is not. It is. You know, I'm not, I'm not super religious, but, like, it is a blessing, you know, this, this isn't just. I think a lot of people kind of just drift through life. They meander through it. And that helped me that in. In conjunction with lots of other experiences too. But that helped me realize how important even just day to day things are.

[A]

Yeah, that's awesome, man. So after this deployment, how much time do you have left in the military? You know, I know you said that if your teammate hadn't been killed, you probably would have stayed in. What was your thought process of like, okay, hey, I have now three combat deployments. I gotta stay in, reenlist or get out. Like, what drove you to decide to get out? Because that's a hard decision, man. And like, I'm not gonna lie for our listeners. I want you guys to understand, like, the fact that this guy had three deployments within this window is incredible. It's absolutely, it's a lot. But it's also incredible because that's not a common thing. And like, you said, like, hey, luck of the draw position, places. That's awesome. But what was your what was the shift of your mindset to like, hey, okay, I want to get out of the military. And like, what am I going to do? What did you want to do do?

[B]

So Afghanistan was my second one. We actually ended up going back to Syria, the third one. I didn't talk about that more too. Yeah, but in, in Afghanistan, I was kind of in that window of like, am I going to stay in? Am I going to reenlist? What's the next steps for me? And so I definitely, I wanted to do one of the more specialty jobs, like go to like dog handling or like a sniper or something like that. So it's always sounded super cool. And so I was kind of in that window of like deciding what I was going to do next. I didn't have to make a decision yet, but I was kind of there. And at towards the end of being in Afghanistan, they basically told us, when you get back, you guys are going to be training. Like, how do I say this without.

[A]

We're gonna.

[B]

You're gonna train to fight a near peer force.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

They're going to be somewhere in Asia potentially. And so the training changed when we got home from our typical stuff to essentially Ranger school again. Because obviously you guys are familiar with when you're fighting a near peer enemy, you can't, because they have night vision, they have radio jammers, they have interception. Like, you can't send messages on your attack. You can't. You, you have to use the encrypted like brick radio. And essentially we're just back to Ranger school era tactics. So our next training cycle was literally medieval and we just, we were walking around the woods digging foxholes, digging, you know, trenches was, it was a pretty rough training cycle of like, this, this sucks. This is not fun.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so I think that kind of dampened my mood. And so I was, I was debating on, okay, do I stay in or not? And I, I was kind of in the position of deciding this. I was 22 at the time and I was like, okay, I'm not having the greatest of times in terms of the people that I really wanted to be in leadership positions over me weren't, aren't there anymore, and I'm not super enjoying the job as much. And I've kind of checked off all the boxes of what I really set out to do on this journey.

[A]

That's cool.

[B]

And so I was like, okay, I'm 22. If I get out now or within the next year, I can, I think, seamlessly transition back to being a normal person. And probably go to college and not be a complete weirdo in terms of, like, going to College as a 23 year old. But if I stay in, I'm gonna get out at like 26, 27, and that's gonna be a little weird. And so I was like, what, what are the. What are the benefits to staying in for another round? It seems like we're really taking the foot off the gas. And the likelihood of me getting three more deployments is extremely unlikely. The likelihood of me getting sent to, like, I don't know, Jordan or something to do a training deployment in the next three years is extremely likely. So I was like, okay, the weighted equation here doesn't make a ton of sense for me to stick around. And this might be my only opportunity to, like, get back into real life and use all of my experience, all my knowledge, and use it as a stepping stone or a jumping off point instead of what I see a lot of veterans do and kind of just like, hang on to this for the rest of their life. Like, this is all I have. And I was like, I want to use this to, to propel me to the next thing to like, superpower it and not use it as, like, fall into this. Like, I'm just this.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm not saying everybody does that, but I. I've seen that happen to a lot of people. So I did made the decision of, like, okay, I'm gonna. I'm gonna get out. I'm gonna go to college.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

And so I got lucky. We went on a third deployment to Syria. And on that one, interestingly, it was kind of back to the normal missions, but we were just the support to. At the time, they're. I don't know what they're known as now. It's course they were going by Gablestone, but we essentially were just working like on the Panzers for them, which is those, like, I don't know, they're just big ass vehicles, excuse my language. Big vehicles. Yeah, I was working as a mini gunner or whatever there. We had people driving it, so we're just in support of them. And I got to do like a bunch of cool stuff for them where they just needed, say, machine gunners to go and work as a blocking position. So it's very. It was very. What is the movie? Blackhawk down esque.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Where it's like, you have the professionals. And then they're like, hey, buddy kid, come here.

[A]

Yeah, you're gonna.

[B]

You're gonna be over here. So I got to do some cool stuff with Them where, you know, just once again, luck of the draw. And so I got to work with them a little bit, but then, yeah, got home from that and I started applying to colleges. This is also when I found Jiu Jitsu. I actually was listening to a pod. I was listening to Joe Rogan podcast in Syria on my third deployment, and I stumbled across a John Danaher podcast and listening to him talk about Jiu Jitsu, I was like, oh my gosh, this is a superpower. I gotta learn this. And so when I got home, I started applying to colleges and I jumped into my first Jiu Jitsu classes. So that's kind of what set me on the path those last like four months of being in the military of like, okay, what am I going to do next? I want to, I want to go to the next thing and like, succeed at it. I'm not just kind of, kind of like, like wander out of the military of like, oh, I'm out. I wanted to like, step out of Fort Benning to my next thing.

[A]

That's smart, man. I think that's a big, that's a big part of you being a Ranger is understanding, okay, hey, what's my next mission? And I, what I've seen, and I would love to your thoughts on this, if you agree or disagree, that the issue a lot of veterans have when they transition out of the military is they don't have another mission, they don't know what they're going to do. And that's when they start playing the victim card. That's when the, the, those lies of entitlement start to creep in and it's just like, hey, yeah, you did some great stuff in the military, but you're not entitled to anything on the outside. Yeah. So, okay, I, I figured you and I would probably align on that based off of what you've been saying, which has been pretty incredible so far. Okay, so you start training Jiu Jitsu in, in the Fort Benning, Georgia area.

[B]

Area, yeah. So I started at. It was called Blind Fury Jiu Jitsu. It was taught by a guy who was partially blind. No, he's actually really good.

[C]

Of course it was.

[B]

What's that?

[C]

I said, of course it was taught by a guy who's partially blind. Like, only a blind guy makes that joke about.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, I love it.

[A]

Blind Fury.

[C]

That's amazing.

[B]

It was awesome. He was hilarious too, because he was very, like, self deprecating about, you know, him being partially blind. And I mean, he named his school Blind Fury. It's hilarious.

[A]

Dude. That's awesome.

[B]

So I had, I had that school and then there was also. Which I found on Fort Benning. There was a, like a legitimate NOGI program on Ben that was taught by professional MMA fighter, like a legit brown belt. And there was also an older, like maybe in his 40s black belt. And so they like all kind of ran like real noki classes.

[A]

Do you remember their names?

[B]

So the brown belt who kind of led the whole thing, his name was Dirk McComas.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I don't know if you're familiar with that or not.

[A]

I'm just, I'm really bad with names and unless I see someone's face, I can put it together. But I just, I'm wondering if it was that time frame. Like I knew some guys that were doing that there.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

It was, it was super cool because it was like, I. You'd think it would be more combatives. And a lot of them were, you know, trained in the combatives program, but they also were like, like, okay, we're going to do noi grappling. Like, that's cool. But we're here to do nogi grappling. And so I got to train it both. I was doing ghee at Blind Fury and then I was doing no GI with like dudes. I mean, obviously we've all had the experience of, you know, you're kind of mom and pop. Jiu Jitsu place is a little bit more hobbyist. Not, maybe not as many like in shaped dudes. But on Benning, you know, it was like a bunch of in shape, aggressive dudes. So it was like a cool training environment because. Because it was all people that were already in shape and strong and aggressive and didn't want to lose. It wasn't just like, you know, the, the accountant or, or whatever, the school teacher. No, no shade on them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But you know, I was a 6, 3, 220 pound ranger who's been powerlifting for five years. I wanted to like get beat up a little bit, you know, I wanted to like have some tough rounds.

[A]

Oh, that's amazing. I love it. In as I'm hearing you say all this stuff, I'm like, man, this is your first intro into Jiu Jitsu. This is what you're judging it off of. You know, like my first Intro to Jiu Jitsu was with Cowie, who took leave before our very first deployment to go to Hawaii to win the whole big tournament out there as a purple belt. Yeah, like this is back in like 2004 timeframe. Like one, we were on Guam for the first part. Our first deployment. We went to Guam for a little bit and then went to Iraq. We were in Guam. There's people from Guam that recognized him. When we're all out at a bar one night, circled us is just Cowie and I, and Cowie's smaller than me. And all of a sudden we get like half circled, surrounded at the bar by a bunch of chamorans, right? Guys from Guam. And I'm like, oh, it's about to go down. I remember grabbing my knife and fork from the bar because I just thought it was going to be bad. And these guys recognize him, and then they're like, oh, you got to come train with us. And it's a great story. And so we go train. And that was my first introduction was hard Jiu Jitsu, hard training. Like, we wore our cami pants and a brown T shirt and just freaking got after. And then I had Jocko as my task unit commander for my second platoon. And so that was always like my baseline of, like, no, I want really hard Jiu Jitsu. And so you get introduced to Jiu Jitsu by a bunch of savages on Fort Benning. And so that's your baseline. And then you listen to John Danaher, which is. He's just an incredible human when it comes to Jiu Jitsu. So that's what you're striving for. So you get out of the military. Where do you move? What. What, Like. Like, what's your goal for college? And then how do you find a gym?

[B]

So I got out. I got out of the worst time possible. I got out February of 2020, which literally four weeks later, co happened. So here's what happened. I was ready to go to college. I. I wanted to start as soon as possible. I was getting out in February. So I was like, okay, I'm going to start summer classes in like. What you doing?

[A]

Are.

[B]

Is that June or something?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I was. I. I was going to go to University of Arizona, but I. In between February and June, I needed somewhere to. To live, essentially because I didn't have an apartment yet. So I went to North Carolina to live with my brother for a little bit. He hadn't gone through the pipe yet, pipeline yet, but he was preparing to go through SFAs. So it was cool to kind of like go out there and live with him for a little bit and, you know, we would lift some weights and hang out, whatever. So I live with my brother for a few months. But what was hilarious is, is I got to my brother's house and I was like, okay, all I'm going to do is lift and do Jiu Jitsu. And those two things, four weeks into leaving the military immediately were taken away.

[A]

Jeez.

[B]

So, you know, it's Covid and my, my brother doesn't do Jiu Jitsu, but like he's interested in it. So we go to Walmart, we get those like black puzzle mats and we set up like some puzzle mats in the garage. He had like a little home gym. So it's just like me and my brother like lifting weights and doing Jiu Jitsu for the like, you know, eight weeks. And he had some friends who did Jiu Jitsu. So they come over to the garage and like I was a white belt. We brought over like some blue belt. We were just kind of like scrapping in the garage.

[A]

That's awesome.

[B]

For a few months.

[A]

That's.

[B]

Which was very interesting. Legit, dude.

[A]

I mean you can, I mean you made a way to. You, you found a way to make it happen, which is awesome.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Okay, so when do you, when are you able to actually start college and, and find, you know. Because you moved. Correct. For college. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. So I, I moved. So I went, did a cross country from North Carolina to Arizona to start college. I moved I think in it's like May. Cuz the summer classes started at the end of May. So I got to Tucson, Arizona, got to Tucson, Arizona in late May. And immediately I was like on the hunt for like, where can I train Jiu Jitsu? And all the schools were closed except for. And I can say this now because it's five years later and no one's going to.

[A]

Yeah, who cares? Come after Little Speak Planet. Yeah.

[B]

In Tucson was training.

[A]

Big shot.

[B]

Closed.

[A]

Big shocker. 10th one it was.

[B]

Yeah, I know, right? So they had the windows taped up, garbage bags and everything. And it's like for the people who might find that offensive, I lived alone in an apartment by myself, so I didn't have to worry about anything. I was like, I don't care. So I went, I went to 10th planet, signed up immediately, and I was again back in it. Going to summer class online and then doing Jiu Jitsu behind closed doors. Basically.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it wasn't until spring semester the following year that the school went from online to in person. And then the rest of my college experience was completely normal.

[A]

Cool.

[B]

But the first like May until December of 20. 20. Of 20. Yeah, 2020 was online school, which was super weird. Weird. But I made it work. I, I'm a. And also this is something I carried through with the military is I was kind of a, you know, a screw off in high school in terms of like caring about my education. But this time around I was like, the military's paying for it and this is my shot to like take the next step in life. And so like I was a 4.0 student like all the way through college.

[A]

Dude, that's rad, man. Yeah, that's awesome. All right, so college, what'd you get your degree in again?

[B]

I have a finance degree.

[A]

Nice. That's right. Yeah, you said that earlier.

[B]

Graduated at a 3.9 by the way. I missed it by Mark.

[C]

Unbelievable shame be upon you and your family.

[A]

That's awesome. What are some parallels that you've been able to draw from your life? Training jiu jitsu, the battlefield, college, and now for what you do? I know you said your job is social media, but you do online training, training. You help people legitimately transform their life through, you know, just the mindset that you bring. And also education of lifting and nutrition. Are there any parallels that you just have seen and, or draw from?

[B]

Yeah, I think on a, on a base level, I think that this is a jiu jitsu thing, this is a military thing, this is a, a lifting and nutrition thing. And I've heard actually John Danaher speak on this too. In terms of technique is 80% of your success in any field or discipline will come from 20% of let's say in Jiu jitsu techniques, let's say in, in nutrition, the foods you're eating, let's say in lifting, the exercise you're doing. So 80% of your progress comes from 20% of let's say technique. So that means mastering those fundamentals, mastering the basics. Right. Let's say for nutrition, that is hitting your macronutrients, eating whole foods, that's 20, but it gives you 80% of the outcome. So nailing the basics, majoring in the majors before majoring in the minors is really important. And it's the same thing with the military. It's the same thing with lifting. Seeing the nutrition like you can, you can hyper obsess about where to put your mag carrier on your kit or belt or whatever, but 80% of the success is going to come from doing magazine changing drills. It's not, do I grab it like this? Do I grab it like this? Do I put it here? That's great. Those are the minors. But practice is the most important same thing for lifting. It's like, well, what should I do this exercise? Should I do this?

[A]

This?

[B]

What do I. It's like effort and consistency for a long period of time is 20%. That's going to give you 80%. So I think a big approach to my training and also something that I preach on my social media too. When it comes to say, strength and conditioning for combat sports is because you see so much ridiculous stuff is majoring in the majors, not majoring in the minors. It's like, yes, the little goofy exercise you're doing might be specific to this, but let's be honest, man, get strong and fit for your sport and then go practice. Practice it.

[A]

Oh, man, I love that. I'm glad we went there. Are there any daily habits or routines that you still follow from your time as an army Ranger?

[B]

Definitely not getting up early, my man.

[A]

So sorry, Jocko, if you're listening, but I. Yep, I'm the same.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I'm up late.

[B]

Been a morning person.

[A]

Neither have I. I are. Is your brain just turned on at night? Are you a late night guy?

[B]

Absolutely. Yeah. I get tons of work done later in the day than I do earlier in the day. I'm just not somebody that enjoy. I like being up early. That's cool. But like when the alarm goes off in the morning and I feel like, not great. I would rather take the extra hour of sleep and be more productive throughout the day than arbitrarily wake up early because it's like tough. I'm. I'm way more on the side of like, I prioritize the sleep and recovery over for the like the mental toughness aspect, which I totally respect. But like, I don't need to prove that to myself anymore. I'm just gonna make the smart decision.

[A]

I like it.

[B]

Yeah. But in terms of, sorry, in terms of like habits that I've carried over, I just, I think it's been said I went to Costa Rica last week for eight days. But besides that, that was also. Just say this, that was the first time that I had gone longer than probably three days without doing some sort of fit. And we were walking around the rainforest, but without doing some sort of physical training, jiu jitsu, lifting, running, whatever, in a decade.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

And so carrying that sort of discipline of I will get the work done. I don't say I love it, I enjoy it. I love going to the gym, I love training. But carrying that sort of discipline of like, it's not a negotiable for me to go to the gym, it's not a negotiable for me to go to Jiu Jitsu.

[A]

It's not a.

[B]

These aren't like, negotiable things like, oh, die. You should. It's like, I will go. This is part of what I do. It's not a how am I?

[A]

I go, nice. I like it. So with that, any. Do you have any advice for someone who's struggling with discipline or consistency?

[B]

I think from a personal standpoint, I think that building habits is like pushing a snowball in the way of. It builds on itself over time, time. And if you've ever tried to start pushing a snowball or create one, the beginning is the hardest part because you have to, you know, form the ball and it's teeny and you have to start rolling and it's awkward and weird and it collapses, it falls apart. And so the most important time to build a habit or the most difficult time to build a habit is in the beginning. And so getting through this, beginning stages of any habit building or discipline building is always the most difficult, difficult. So when you need to start building those habits, you need to start telling yourself it's, it's. This isn't. While it is a forever habit, this feeling is temporary. And when you feel those feelings, that should motivate you. Like, okay, I'm getting over the hard part. I'm getting through this. Because once you've started that habit and once you've built that as a, like, this is a pattern. Humans are very pattern oriented. Once you've built that, like, this is. These are the foods I eat. This is the training I do. I go out to Jiu Jitsu, Monday, Wednesday, Friday. It's so much easier to keep that going. That's why we call it falling off the wagon. When somebody breaks a habit is because when you're on that wagon you're riding, it's going fast. It's so it's. It's easier, right? You're going, going, going, but then you fall off. Now you got to restart all over again. So when you are trying to build something, understand and accept, there's no way around that it's going to be difficult. But understand the beginning is what's going to be the most difficult. Accept it and get through that phase first because it does get easier.

[A]

Yes. So any of our listeners that just started training Jiu Jitsu, I hope you heard that. And for any of our listeners that are wanting to do Jiu Jitsu, because it's pretty cool, I mean, obviously this isn't a huge podcast. We don't have the impact like, you know, Jocko and Joe and all these other guys towards Jiu Jitsu. But we have had people, which has been cool, that started training Jiu Jitsu because of this podcast. We've also had people that have grown closer to the level the Lord and, you know, started following Jesus because of the podcast. And those parallels are, are the same on both of those. Your faith, when you first start walking down that road, it's going to be hard. There's going to be a lot of things coming your way. And earlier you said you're not a religious person. Neither am I. I just have relationship with the Lord. I love Jesus. I love God, and he's undeniable to me. Same for Jiu Jitsu. It's hard when you first start training Jiu Jitsu, but stick with it. It's the same thing when I was, you know, wanting to become a Navy seal. When I started, like, training for that, it was hard, but I had to have the, the habits. So I hope our listeners really just marinate on what Roman just said of just creating those habits. And the more disciplined you are with those habits, the more freedom that you're gonna have. And I love that you said that. Okay, so you're training at, you're training Jiu Jitsu in Tucson. How long, how long do you stay there training? And then when do you decide to move to Texas and why?

[B]

Yeah, so let's see. I was training Jiu Jitsu in Arizona for. I graduated college a little early, like three and a half years. So I was training in, in Arizona for about three and a half years. I actually ended up switching schools from 10th planet to a more traditional school. A little later on in the journey. I trained at Northside Jiu Jitsu, which is a great school if you're ever in the area, check out them out. But around, let's see, late. This was 2023, mid to late 2023, I was like, okay, I'm in that same transitionary phase that I was in the army of, like, okay, I'm about to graduate college. What am I going to do next? So I was applying to, I, I, I was about to get a finance degree. So I was applying to finance jobs and I was talking to people in the industry. My brother had connections from, like, people that were like, high up and not high up, but, like, had had connections to, like, major financial institutions. And so I was talking to them. I was apply, going through interviewing process of, like, you know, places like Charles Schwab and like, the idea Was that I was going to go and start my career in the finance industry. And then I was like, okay, I am, at the time, 27 years old. I didn't make it in high school as an athlete. And that's always kind of stung for me. I have a few good years left in this.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Before I go and dedicate my life to an office job, I want to make one more run at trying to make it as an athlete. I think I have it in me. I'm good at Jiu Jitsu. Like, I was. I took gold at American Nationals at purple belt. That was the highest I'd ever done, a purple belt. But I was always, like, right on the cusp of I would lose by, like, an advantage at Worlds. Like, I couldn't crack that, like, next step. And so. So I was like, okay, I'm gonna make a run at this. And so the plan was always to move to Austin, but it wasn't to just fully pursue Jiu Jitsu was like, move there with a job in the finance industry, and then, you know what, train Jiu Jitsu as well. But I was like, okay, I'm gonna actually make a run right at this. So we moved Austin. We get to Austin, a train under John, you know, training my butt off all year, and I'm running into some injuries here and there, but I'm just training through. Through them. Kind of just being a meathead. And I had a bunch of success with local and regional stuff. I won, like, cash brackets and, like, Colorado. I won IBJJF Opens, double gold to Dallas and Houston. I was doing what we were winning team events. Like, I was winning a bunch of stuff. And then at, I don't know, maybe eight weeks before the World Championship chips, my right knee was in, like, pretty serious deteriorating health. It was locking and train. It had been locking and training for a few months, but it was getting to the point where, like, I knew the exact movement. Like, I could just lock my knee at will. It would just catch like this, and it would stick. And so I'd be training, and my knee would lock, and I would, like, limp off the mats and pop my back in. And then you training, it was rough. It was really rough. So I went to the VA and I was like, I am competing, like, whether or not you scheduled me for this surgery, I'm competing at the World Championships in December. It happens December 12th. So I want to get surgery on my knee, but I'm doing that first. So let me know what, what, what the surgery options are available. So they booked me for surgery Monday of when I was competing at the NOGI World Championships, like a Saturday. So I fly to out to Vegas to compete in the world Championships, and literally my side of the bracket is just like Murderers Row. My first match as a brown belt double. Say again.

[A]

This is as a brown belt. Correct.

[B]

Brown belt. Brown belt, adult. Yep. So ultra heavy. My first match is against the double gold, European and Ghee world champion currently at Brad belt. I end up heel hooking him in like 45 seconds. I'm like, oh, sweet. Riding high. Second guy is the guy from the last year's podium. I hit a inverted arm bar to triangle and Americana. Take him out. I'm like, let's go. Here we go. I'm rolling. Third guy, ADCC veteran, winner of the European 99 plus kilos trials. Squeak out a technical victory against him, like six to three or something, or six to four. I wrestled up, took him down, took his back, and he passed my guard. So I squeak out a victory over him and then get to the finals, which is six weeks prior to this. I beat this guy in a cash bracket. And so I'm like, I saw him on the other side of the bracket. I'm like, I'm ready to go. Like, I'm gonna. I'm gonna win this. And I'm riding off all these wins. But unfortunately, in my semifinal match against this ADCC veteran, we just had this like, physical war. So I'm just destroyed. Get to the finals. Get ankle locked. So I'm like, oh, boy, that's a. That's a big hit. So it's like my greatest Jiu Jitsu achievement is coming up short, which hurts, but it is what it is. I do have, like, I have metal at Nogi Worlds, which is. Is dope. Then I go into surgery literally 72 hours later, and all of a sudden I go from winning all this stuff, training my butt off, meddling at Nogi Worlds, to nothing.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Can't train, can't do anything. I could lift, but just like upper body stuff. But I, you know, I can't do Jiu Jitsu. I don't have a job right. Like that. That was my job, if you want to call it that. So I have like. Like what I feel like is a complete dead end in my life. I was going through, like, kind of personal stuff in the background with my girlfriend and, you know, just there. It was like a really tough time. It was a dark place in my life because it. It wasn't just things are bad, but it was like things are about to get really good for me. I'm about to take that next step in Jiu Jitsu. And now all of a sudden it's just rock bottom. And so, so I was like, okay, I have to make something of this situation. It can't just be, this is not the end for me. What can I possibly do during this time? And so I invested like $5,000 in like a camera and a lens and all this stuff and computer. And I was like, I'm going to make it on social media if it kills me. And so I started posting for 166 straight days, which is when I hit 100,000 thousand followers a week ago for 166 straight days. I posted one to three times every single day. I put something on my store, put like five plus stories on my story every single day. And I focused not on just trying to get views, but putting the most valuable content I could out possible. Of the ten years of experience I had in the military, lifting, nutrition, Jiu Jitsu, everything, I just put everything I possibly could out for free and it, it paid off.

[A]

That's awesome, man.

[B]

Yeah. And so that's what I do now.

[A]

Okay, so talk to us about the personal training that you do, the online coaching and then Al obviously also what you're, you know, you're still doing for Jiu Jitsu, who you train with, who you train under and how that's, you know, shaping who you are.

[B]

Yeah, for sure. So the, the one on one coaching I do is I train people, basically three different things. So one is combat support sports athletes, strength, conditioning and nutrition for them, getting them to be bigger, faster, stronger, better athletes. The second one, which is honestly a lot of fun too, working with, you know, like professionals, like busy professionals, people. Like I had a client who's like a chef in Japan, getting them, you know, fat loss goals, muscle growth goals. A lot of them come to me because they also do Jiu Jitsu too. And they're trying to find a balance between the lifting, the, the eating and the Jiu Jitsu because it's difficult to lift into Jiu Jitsu together. Synergize those two together, together. And then the third thing that I have just recently opened up, and I stayed away from it for a while because it didn't super interest me. But I got a lot of people asking me about it, which is sort of like military or special operations prep. So if you want to prepare physically or and honestly mentally too for say a selection process or just going into the military I offer that as well, where I can help people prepare physically and get in shape and prepared specifically for like PT tests or things like that. So those kinds of three things I do with that. And then I have, you know, some other things like I have a train heroic training teams, which is kind of like group programming. So I go, okay, if you want to do a two day, three day or four day split, you can jump on one of these teams. And it's kind of a group training thing.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

But those are the coaching things that I do. And then I train at Kingsway Jiu Jitsu, which is the school that was just recently founded by Gordon Ryan and John Danaher. Those are the head coaches. And I've been training under John for about a year and eight months or so. But now that we have that kind of like flagship school, that's where I train mostly. And I train a lot less now than I would love to do because obviously the businesses are doing well and those take up a lot of my time. But I try to get in there multiple times a week, train my, train my butt off and give the best rounds I can to everybody who is preparing for, for stuff. You know, I have, I have friends obviously. The guys just competed at C. I helped him with like wall wrestling rounds and stuff.

[A]

That's rad.

[B]

Yeah. Know I help, help guys prepare for, you know, trials or whatever it is they're preparing for. I do plan on getting back to competing soon, but it isn't at the forefront, at least for, for me right now.

[A]

Awesome. How can people contact you, link up with you or get more information on the, the coaching that you do?

[B]

Yeah, for sure. So all my social media besides YouTube, that's just Roman Mory. But. And it also is labeled Roman Jiu Jitsu on there as my name. But all my social media is Tik Tok and Instagram is Roman Jiu Jitsu. And then you can get in contact with me. You can either send me a DM on Instagram or you can book a call with me on my, my link tree which is linked on my Instagram and my tech talk. Love to talk to you if you're interested in the one on one coaching side of things.

[A]

Yeah, that's awesome. If, if any of our listeners are just thinking about it, do it because I mean I just, I love your content, I love your page and the value that you provide ride is, is pretty incredible. What's a time frame for you to compete again? What are you thinking? San Antonio, I think into September.

[B]

Here's What I don't want to do, I don't want to be half in, half out, and then go and show up to Nogi Worlds and just like, half a it, you know, like, that's not who I am as a person. I don't. I don't want to just, like, go and just give it a mediocre shot, like, oh, I'm still in this. So I think when I have a little. When I have a little bit more streamlined time in terms of my day to day, because obviously a lot of this stuff for me is. Is new. I'm still figuring out how to really compartmentalize this to create a better working and life balance. But right now, some days I, you know, I work from, like, nine to midnight, where it's just like, I just. Everything I'm doing is just all. It's. It's tough. So when I get my feet a little bit more in to jiu jitsu and I'm able to be consistently training and I feel like, okay, I'm ready to go again, that's when. That's when I'll step back out there onto the mat.

[A]

That's cool. Lucas, what questions do you have for Roman?

[C]

Well, I just want to compare our competition history. That's all I wanted.

[A]

Yeah, I knew that was coming. Ramen. Just brace yourself for this one.

[C]

No, I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna force him to know about my. My. My one month I spent as a top 10 white belt in the world.

[B]

Oh, heck yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, heck yeah.

[A]

No, do not encourage it.

[C]

Ten people had not competed. Competed in my category, and I lost all my matches, but because there were. There was no one else ranked, I was. I was top 10. So I.1 of the big things you. You talked about that really intrigued me was preparing to fight a near peer force and just how different that training was versus everything that you guys had done before. Was that something that. Within, you know, within your group, was that something that was exciting? Was it something that was intimidating? Was it something that. That, you know, maybe you guys had as you're preparing for it, like, emotionally and. And from a. An anxiety standpoint or. Or, you know, excitement standpoint, whatever. How did that impact y' all and the way that you were training?

[B]

Yeah, it was extremely anxiety inducing and a little bit probably terrifying, you know, because fighting somebody that's not a near peer is a definitely different experience. Like, the cards are stacked for you, not against you, and it was very anxiety inducing to hear the news of who we might be engaging with. And then when we got back, it started to materialize that we weren't actually going to go do this. So it lost its. It lost its, like, spark. It lost its value and turned into misery for the sake of misery instead of misery to prepare you for something that might happen. But in the beginning stages of knowing we were going to get back and potentially go jump into a country that might be, you know, a near peer force was. That was kind of scary, for sure.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

It seems like it would be like, not only a little bit scary, but also like kind of the, the mindset of all the, the guys that I know that have been in the. Either in the Rangers or, or some of the seals that we've gotten to meet since I've been doing this podcast. Like, that sort of gets you guys a little bit fired up to too of like, hey, we'll. We'll. We're about to find out who the best is.

[A]

Yeah. And changes the way you think about things.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So there's that. Then the next thing I wanted to talk about, you know, you. You've talked a lot about your competition history and how you were. Were preparing and, and moving in that. Why do you think it is that Jiu Jitsu has captivated your. Your attention so much? Like, why did it become such a big thing for you? I understand, like the getting excited about training and finding that sort of purpose outside, but why did you choose, hey, you know what? Jiu Jitsu is what I'm going to pursue over the degree, over everything else, because it's really captivated, like a big piece of who you are.

[B]

Yeah. I think Jiu Jitsu is really special in the sense of it's one of the few sports that knowledge has so much power. There is physicality to Jiu Jitsu, there is mental toughness to Jiu Jitsu, there's condition. All these things play into any physical sport the same way that it plays into wrestling, football, whatever. But in football, there's like, me and then there's some defensive lineman or defensive end that can just run through me. No matter how knowledgeable about football I am. Like, if there's just at some point no knowledge will ever overcome in. In many sports, probably most of the popular sports that we know, to be honest, knowledge doesn't matter that much. It matters, but not that much. In Jiu Jitsu, it kind of seems like knowledge is so much bigger of a piece of the pie. And so because of that, there's this obviously we've heard like the, the Joe Rogan comparison of like chess with dire consequences type of stuff. But it's like there is this component of Jiu Jitsu where knowing more things, being more intelligent, being a more tactically proficient, being the person that has more experience, can overcome a larger, better, more athletic opponent. And so something that was really cool for me is I was always athletic, I was always good, but I wasn't, you know, I'm not, I don't have a 40 inch vert, right. So what I, what I lacked in the raw athletic abilities, I could always make up for with the intelligence. So what I found a lot of times is if people were a little bit smaller than me at like say competitions and open groups class, I would be bigger and stronger than them. But if people were bigger than me, I almost always certainly was much better at Jiu Jitsu than them. So I was in this cool zone for me that's like, I kind of call like the Gordon Ryan zone of like you're bigger than people that are like small and super technical, but people that are bigger and stronger. You're so much better at Jiu Jitsu than them. Cuz for you to be bigger than 225, 235 pounds, it's unlikely that you ever will get good at Jiu Jitsu like in the way that requires you to be really good. So there's, I feel like there's this kind of Goldilocks zone of Jiu Jitsu that's somewhere between 205 to 240 pounds where they're bigger and stronger than anyone smaller and they're far better than anyone bigger. And it was cool because I got to be raised in that sort of Goldilocks zone of like, I can be good at Jiu Jitsu because I'm smart and I'm athletic.

[C]

That's rad. So my last one is, you know, you're, you're training with a team that got to compete at at cji and outside of any turf toe jokes, because they've already all been made on YouTube, I'm curious, is that something that long term that you would aspire to do? Like, hey, you know what, in the next four years I'd like to be a that competition team to be at, you know, whatever CJ number that would be.

[B]

I think a year ago that was like the dream where I'm at right now in terms of I have this thing that is doing unbelievably well for me. It's tough for me to shift focus to something that, to be honest, is a Bit of a poor man's sport. The million dollar tournament is few and far between, but me betting on myself and building my own business is not a risk, and it's not a gamble because I'm betting on me. And so, yes, I still would love to pursue athletics at a high level, but not at the expense of costing me, like, my business.

[A]

Man.

[C]

You're welcome to maturity. Like, we've all had to make that decision, man.

[A]

Where I was going, yeah, dude. Roman, the amount of maturity and wisdom that you have at the age of 29 is incredible. You're gonna do some incredible things in business and in life, and I think that's rooted in your humility. Obviously, your parents instilled that into you and your brother at a young age. It's no shock to me, as we've done this episode, to hear what you just said, which is awesome. Yeah. Now, as a fan of Jiu jitsu, like, selfishly, I want to watch you compete at cji. You know, it kind of sucks a little bit. You know, like, as a fan, I'm like, you know, because I'm. I'm. I'm 42. I'm old, I'm broken. Like, I tr. I'm. I am the hobbyist. Right. You know, I'm just. That is me now. I love getting hard rounds in. I train at Double Five under Formiga, and we have some just absolute killers up there. It's mostly the gi. You guys are mostly no gi. So two different worlds. I used to do mma, so that was my no GI days. And it's funny because I used to absolutely only love no gi. And then as I got older, I was like, I like the GI because.

[C]

It'S nice to have a jacket. It keeps me warm.

[A]

But just as like a fan of the sport, if I was being selfish, I would be like, man, I want to see you keep competing. But from my perspective as an older guy, guy who, you know, has a few businesses and, you know, works at Echelon Front, and I get to work with leaders all around the world. Your maturity is incredible, and I'm just super proud of you, man. I'm super proud of your service. Everything that you did for our nation, I'm very thankful for. And everything that you're doing for people all across the world with your online coaching is awesome. I mean, there's no denying that you're delivering impact and value to people, which is. Which is really important, and that's a great mission that you have in life. So I know Lucas is going to close it out with some final things from our sponsors. But before we do that, I'm going to ask you this question. Kind of just think about it and you can share this at the very end. But if you could leave our audience with one piece of advice to help them win on the mat in business or life, what would it be? So I just want you to kind of think about it and then also you are also a partner. You just became a co owner. Owner with a, with a company. Correct. Can you tell us about that real quick? And then Lucas is going to close it out with some sponsor stuff and then we'll get back to that question for sure.

[B]

So my first sponsor ever was a Choju Life on Instagram. They're a electrolyte and amino acid company. How do you spell that? We started out just, you know, my very first sponsor on social media ever. He's a really great guy. He's also a veteran. He's actually in the Austin area and after that little contract was expired, he said, hey man, if you're interested in, you know, a better offer, I'd love to talk to you about more about this in person. So I met up with him in person, we talked about it and he does kind of a digital marketing for other supplement companies. He wanted to start his own because he's like, I'm good at this. Why would I do this for anybody else? But he just didn't want to do it by himself anymore. And he was like, you're good at social media, I'm good at the, the business building. I have the connections, I have the manufacturing. Let's partner up and let's make this as a team thing. And so we partnered up on that and now I co own a supplement company and hopefully we can, you know, kind of do the same thing that Jocko is doing in the, in the supplement space as well for combat sports and Jiu Jitsu is, you know, make good products for combat sports athletes.

[A]

There is plenty of room for good companies that have good products, you know. And so how do you, how do you spell that? And what's, what's the website?

[B]

So it's Choju C H O J U. And if you type that in, it should come up on Instagram.

[A]

Okay, awesome, man. And you said it's electrolytes and amino. Ac. Amino acids.

[B]

Yeah, is an electrolyte. It's essentially a recovery blend for like a post training environment.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

So the idea is you have the electrolytes hydration for you know, like post training sweating a lot. Then it has all nine essential amino acids. So if you eat a meal with post training, it's going to help facilitate the actual, you know, muscle protein synthesis of that dude.

[A]

Let's go. That's awesome. Lucas, what do you got?

[C]

All right. Well, as Roman ruminates on how he wants a. I was working on that while you guys were talking on how he's gonna answer that final question. We do wanna make sure that everybody's following us on Instagram. If you guys wanna be part of the conversation, if you've already liked and subscribed and checked out stuff on YouTube, go over to Instagram, follow @jpdonellpdinellpodcast. I'm LucasPinkard and Roman is Romanjujitsu. Our partners over at first in Nutrition also help us out with our hump day health hacks on Wednesdays. And if you. If you want to get four free weeks of training from the folks over at first in, you can do that by going to firstinnutrition.com jppod and if you time it right and you're getting ready for that competition that you got coming up, you see those numbers on the horizon, Realizing you got to lose a little bit before you get on the scale, holler at them and they'll get you set up. All of this, though, is made possible by our friends over at Echelon Front with the third book of the trilogy coming out by Dave Burke. The need to lead by former Top Gun instructor. You can also catch Dave Burke, Leif, Jocko, all of those guys on the extreme Ownership online academy, which has meetings on Monday afternoons. You can get part of that live call where you can holler at all of those guys, get your questions answered in real time, as well as all of the courses that they have on the EO Academy. And then once you realize what you got going on there, why don't you get registered for the muster coming up in December? We're gonna be in Orlando. Orlando this time around. Yep. So which is going to be really cool. If you've never been to one of the ashlon Front live events, not only is the value tremendous, but you get so, so, so much information in that time. The workbooks that they have are awesome things that we use daily as well as getting to get a little Q A from the people standing right there in front of you. It's not like these other conferences where Jocko and Leif and jp, they go into the green room and have little tiny sandwiches and wait for the next time they come out. No, man, they're out there with you, answering your questions, working on your stuff, and even role playing with you in order to make sure that your problems get solved.

[A]

We also have a few spots left with the post muster FTX left. FTX 17 that's coming up actually next week when this was released, is sold out. We have a handful, like a small handful of spots for FTX18 in October as well.

[B]

Right on.

[A]

So, yeah, the training's coming up with Echelon Front.

[B]

They're.

[A]

They're selling out. It's awesome. And looking forward to seeing our listeners there.

[C]

Man, I was so proud when Roman said ftx. I was like, I know what that means. Even as an ncc, I know what FTX means.

[A]

He. He made up a thing Roman called the NCC the non commissioned civilians.

[C]

There's a. There's a legion of us.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So, yeah, check out echelonfront.com and if you want one of the instructors at Echelon Front to work with you, or maybe you need some private business coaching, holler at them at infochelon on front dot com. Then that brings us to our next group, which is the folks over at Little Cattle Co. So go to Little Cattle Co. They got beef sticks. They still got a little bit of that Apex blend ground beef, which is the ground beef with the essential organs. You get some heart, you get some kidney, you got some liver in there to make sure that you keep all of your nutrients up in tip top shape as well as the beef pot tallow products. You got your after sun care, you got your itch cream, and then you got your regular tallow stuff because you know what, you're looking a little ashy. So grab it, put it on there and take care of your skin. If you need any apparel printing done, go check out nthepathprinting for all your apparel printing needs. They did some really cool stuff for Jesus in Jiu Jitsu, which we got to showcase this weekend. Jesus in Jiu Jitsu, of course, is a ministry that both JP and I are a part of. We get to do regular Jiu Jitsu seminars throughout the year with top level competitors like Marcus Bucecha, who we got to see out there. He was, he was hanging out. We also got to see Demetrius Johnson.

[A]

Nice.

[C]

Yeah. Which was. Which was pretty cool. He was really nice. And then a good friend of yours and the show, Jason Khalifa, came by the booth when we were at Jiu Jitsu Con, got a shirt. He went one and one this weekend and it was really cool just getting to see all these people who We've got some connections with through Jesus in Jiu Jitsu. And a shout out not only to our professor over at Double Five for going double gold this weekend, but also to one of his opponents, Josh Hinger, who shared a testimony with us, spent some time there sharing the gospel with people, which was really cool. And it's just a reminder that Jiu Jitsu is bigger than the schools that we go to because of what it does for our community. And then most of all, the Lord is who can be magnified through all of that. So check out Jesus and Jiu Jitsu USA.com to get in on some of that stuff if you're in the Austin area and even if you're not, and maybe you want to get on with some of the gear that these guys use whenever they're deployed out in the field. Go check out Bruiser Arms. It's jp, JP Lake, Leif. Like, I almost called him laco. Almost. Combine those two. Jp, Leif, and Jocko have a company where they put together custom gear packages and training. You can go to the training facility down there, shoot him a message at Bruiser Arms.

[A]

And finally, we just did a custom staccato for Sean Ryan.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

Just posted a video of him shooting it.

[B]

Bro.

[C]

That's awesome.

[A]

That weapon setup that we put together for him is awesome. And. And your man Gordon got one of our weapon setups as well.

[B]

I think I saw that, too. Those are sweet.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

Not too shabby.

[A]

All right.

[B]

Sorry to interrupt.

[C]

Yeah, no, you're good. And. And finally, to the folks that keep us clothed and fuel. To the people over at Origin and Jocko. I'm just mixing everything there. My dyslexia has reached its peak this segment of the program. Yep. But go check out Origins. Got a bunch of new stuff, and they're registering for immersion camp. 2026, 2025. Just wrapped up.

[B]

Up.

[C]

And if you go check out the feedback and stuff from there, go look at some of the videos. It's absolutely incredible. Time.

[A]

They're halfway sold out already.

[C]

Already halfway sold out yet. So go. Go check that out. Make sure that you register for Immersion Camp. And if you go to jockofuel.com and use code JP Pod20, it'll save you 20% on everything over there. So we got the electrolytes, we got the Jocko fuel, which is what keeps us going and what's keeping my dyslexia just barely at bay here with all the nootropic in it, the creatine that's there, the Krill oil, which if you're. If you use krill oil, that's great. The super Krill, it's got just a little bit extra in there, keeps those joints a little bit more fresh. And I know not all of us are young 29 year olds that are just jacked.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Young, dumb, and full of inspiration. Like Roman. There are some of us that are on the 40 is just a few weeks away from me. So whatever that is that's in the super Krill, it's. It's keeping me from making all the dad noises. I got out of bed this morning and didn't even go. So thank you to Jocko Fuel and Superkll for making that happen. Oh, bro.

[A]

Yeah, we'll get you some Jocko joint warfare.

[C]

All right, we'll send it over to JP for some final thoughts.

[A]

Awesome. Again, Roman, thank you so much, man, for taking the time to be on here. I know how busy your schedule is. As you just explained to our listeners, you're a dedicated coach to thousands of people across the world, and I just want to say thank you for that. Thank you for sharing your stories and your less. I know I got a lot out of this episode myself. Some things just that I needed to hear again. Things that reminded me of my time in the SEAL Teams and just hanging around. Good Americans that just are getting after it. And you're definitely one of those guys. Thank you for your service, everything that you did for our nation. Thank you to the men in your regiment for everything that they did. And, you know, I also know that this episode was a cool way to honor your fallen team. And I know that's. I know that's something that you think about every day as I think about my fallen teammates every day. And I just want to say that from what I've seen of you and from what I heard today, like, I know he's proud of you, man. I know he's proud of you. And so. So are your teammates, man, because you're representing the US army at the highest level, and there's a reason why Rangers lead the way. So I appreciate you being here. Again, going back to that question, if you could leave our audience with one piece of advice to help them win, whether it's on the mat in business or in life, what would it be?

[B]

Yeah. So let me just start with. Thank you guys so much for having me. Thank you for the kind words. I really appreciate it. It's been awesome talking to you guys. So, yeah, let me. Let me start this question by saying everything that I have accomplished in my life that is extremely valuable to me. Every accolade, every achievement has all started from a place of failure. Year I dropped out of college and I went and became an Army Ranger. I failed college the first time, went and got a degree at 27 years old. I, you know, injured my knee and I'm sitting at home with nothing at darkest place in my life, just horrible spot. And I start a, you know, a successful business. Failure is not losing until you give up. So if you're going through a place in your life where you are feeling like a failure, you feel like you have reached the end of the road, that is the best time to start something new. That is always try to take advantage of every opportunity you have. Because failure is opportunity. If you see it that way. It's only failure if you decide to give up. So if you are sitting out there and you're wondering, how do you become whatever, how do I get to this goal? How do I get to that goal? Realize that it is capable if you actually, and I don't want to make this corny of like. And you can do anything you put your mind to, but realize that failure is not the end. Failure is the beginning.

[A]

Nice. Well, with that, Roman, I again, thank you. And to our listeners, I hope this episode has been a reminder to go do the work that is needed to put in the effort to build your legacy and to never settle. This has been the JPDL podcast, episode 102.