Episode Overview

Title: Avoid Conflict But Don't Be a Coward | Having Hard Conversations
Podcast: JP Dinnell Podcast #113
Date: November 21, 2025
Hosts: JP Dinnell & Lucas Pinckard

This episode explores the fine balance between avoiding unnecessary conflict and the courage required to have tough, meaningful conversations—especially in leadership and personal growth contexts. Drawing from JP's experiences as a Navy SEAL and leadership instructor, as well as candid stories from both hosts' lives, the conversation focuses on directness, accountability, and practical approaches to giving and receiving feedback without damaging relationships or falling into cowardice.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Power of Honest Feedback Among Friends

• [00:00-07:20]
  • JP opens by reading a heartfelt text from his friend and mentor, Trey Warren, who challenged JP to reduce his use of foul language, emphasizing the impact of JP's words as a gift "from God."
  • Trey’s text was a model of both encouragement and challenge—he praised JP’s influence but suggested he could achieve greater impact by controlling his language.
  • JP discussed his upbringing, military background, and struggles with language. He acknowledged that cursing had become a habit in the SEAL teams’ environment but recognized the importance of change.

“You have a light in you, JP, that demands attention. That right there is a gift from God. When you speak, people dial in and listen to every word you say. That is a gift from God... I do think you could have a greater impact to strangers and your friends, if you can control your foul language.” — Trey Warren (read aloud by JP, [02:00])

2. Language, Authenticity, and Professionalism

• [07:20-15:33]
  • Lucas and JP discuss public figures like Andy Frisella and Gary Vee, whose language limits their audience reach. Both hosts note the impact of language on professional environments and personal branding.
  • JP reflects on his willingness to adapt language based on context, highlighting intentionality and discipline over “authenticity” as an excuse for unfiltered language.
  • There's a recurring theme that being disciplined with words makes content more accessible and professional.

“In the majority of professional environments, you don't do it... it’s not a matter of authenticity. It’s just a matter of discipline.” — Lucas [15:16]

3. Framework for Difficult Conversations in Leadership

• [15:40-23:09]
  • JP shares a workshop example where he coached executives on acknowledging imbalances, taking ownership, and having hard conversations with their teams.
  • The Echelon Front model includes: identify the problem, take ownership, explain impact, provide solutions, and follow up with action.
  • He connects this model to Trey’s text, appreciating its thoughtfulness and non-attacking tone.

“Go have the hard conversation with your team and identify the problem that you’ve created, the impact. Take ownership, provide a solution, and then you have to go take action with that.” — JP [18:17]

4. The Challenge of Initiating Tough Conversations

• [23:09-29:57]
  • Both hosts admit to their struggles with avoiding conflict, reflecting on personal insecurities and the desire not to create discomfort or additional conflict.
  • They emphasize practicing and roleplaying tough conversations beforehand, ensuring emotional detachment and intentionality.
  • They draw a distinction between direct confrontation and a carefully framed, caring approach.

“If we frame it the right way, if we can do what Trey did with me in this text message and make it very clear that, hey, this is from a position of love... it should be received the right way.” — JP [28:40]

5. Why People Avoid Conflict & the Role of Preemptive Communication

• [30:18-36:00]
  • Lucas shares personal stories of how it’s easy as a leader to coach others through conflict but difficult to act on his own advice, often convincing himself something isn't a big deal to avoid confrontation.
  • They relate to a story from Jocko Willink: instead of waiting for “hard conversations,” he avoids them by having direct, regular, honest communication as issues arise, so problems don’t accumulate.

“I avoid hard conversations... I’m having all the needed conversations along the way so that they don't get to the point where it is a hard conversation.” — Jocko Willink (paraphrased by JP [34:36])

6. The Difference Between Physical and Relational Conflict

• [45:06-54:16]
  • JP recounts a story of stepping in to de-escalate a physical altercation at a comedy show—demonstrating that stepping up to direct conflict can be easier for some than having relational, interpersonal confrontations.
  • They contrast “heroic” moments that are ego-affirming versus the quieter courage needed for honest conversations.
  • JP laments a cultural tendency to film rather than act and links this to how many avoid hard conversations in daily life.

“Having that hard conversation is also doing the right thing 100%. It’s just different, because it’s not as rewarding to our ego.” — JP [53:21]

7. Final Lessons: Avoiding Conflict vs. Cowardice

• [58:21-End]
  • JP closes with practical and philosophical encouragement: avoid unnecessary (especially physical) conflict, but don’t use “avoiding conflict” as a cover for avoiding necessary, hard conversations.
  • He highlights the necessity of preparation, professionalism, and an intent to achieve alignment—not just “winning” in conflict.

“Avoiding conflict is good. You should avoid conflict. However, comma, that doesn’t mean avoid having the hard conversations... We should also avoid conflict at all cost. But if you have conflict in your life when it comes to relationships, go address it. Be default aggressive to have the hard conversations.” — JP [58:27]

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On the Impact of Honest Feedback

  • “I wonder how many times I have not done what [Trey] did with me with other people in my life.” — JP [15:41]

• On the Value of Preparation

  • “If you don’t role-play a conversation... you could lose control of that conversation. And that’s the worst thing.” — JP [22:37]

• On Jocko’s Approach

  • “He is having all the needed conversations along the way so that they don't get to the point where it is a hard conversation.” — JP [34:36]

Conclusion

Timestamps for Key Segments:

• 00:00 – JP reads Trey’s impactful text and reflects
• 07:20 – Hosts discuss language and leadership brand
• 15:40 – Framework for hard conversations
• 23:09 – Admitting difficulty with conflict avoidance
• 30:18 – Jocko Willink’s philosophy on hard conversations
• 45:06 – Story of real-world conflict intervention
• 58:21 – Final thoughts: the true purpose of avoiding vs. confronting conflict

Tone:
Candid, practical, and reflective—balancing veteran intensity with humility, humor, and real-world wisdom.

Takeaways for Listeners

• Avoiding physical or ego-driven conflict is wise, but don’t conflate this with avoiding the difficult, honest conversations that strengthen relationships and organizations.
• Have a framework for tough talks: prepare, be genuine, own the problem, explain the impact, offer solutions, and seek genuine alignment.
• Seek accountability from friends, model direct but caring feedback, and practice discipline in your words and actions.
• Lastly, true leadership isn’t about bravado or confrontation—it’s about communication, humility, and relentless pursuit of improvement (for yourself and those you lead).