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Avoid Conflict But Don't Be a Coward | Having Hard Conversations | JP Dinnell Podcast 113

JP Dinnell Podcast

Fri Nov 21 2025

Summary

Episode Overview

Title: Avoid Conflict But Don't Be a Coward | Having Hard Conversations
Podcast: JP Dinnell Podcast #113
Date: November 21, 2025
Hosts: JP Dinnell & Lucas Pinckard

This episode explores the fine balance between avoiding unnecessary conflict and the courage required to have tough, meaningful conversations—especially in leadership and personal growth contexts. Drawing from JP's experiences as a Navy SEAL and leadership instructor, as well as candid stories from both hosts' lives, the conversation focuses on directness, accountability, and practical approaches to giving and receiving feedback without damaging relationships or falling into cowardice.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Power of Honest Feedback Among Friends

[00:00-07:20]
- JP opens by reading a heartfelt text from his friend and mentor, Trey Warren, who challenged JP to reduce his use of foul language, emphasizing the impact of JP's words as a gift "from God."
- Trey’s text was a model of both encouragement and challenge—he praised JP’s influence but suggested he could achieve greater impact by controlling his language.
- JP discussed his upbringing, military background, and struggles with language. He acknowledged that cursing had become a habit in the SEAL teams’ environment but recognized the importance of change.

“You have a light in you, JP, that demands attention. That right there is a gift from God. When you speak, people dial in and listen to every word you say. That is a gift from God... I do think you could have a greater impact to strangers and your friends, if you can control your foul language.” — Trey Warren (read aloud by JP, [02:00])

2. Language, Authenticity, and Professionalism

[07:20-15:33]
- Lucas and JP discuss public figures like Andy Frisella and Gary Vee, whose language limits their audience reach. Both hosts note the impact of language on professional environments and personal branding.
- JP reflects on his willingness to adapt language based on context, highlighting intentionality and discipline over “authenticity” as an excuse for unfiltered language.
- There's a recurring theme that being disciplined with words makes content more accessible and professional.

“In the majority of professional environments, you don't do it... it’s not a matter of authenticity. It’s just a matter of discipline.” — Lucas [15:16]

3. Framework for Difficult Conversations in Leadership

[15:40-23:09]
- JP shares a workshop example where he coached executives on acknowledging imbalances, taking ownership, and having hard conversations with their teams.
- The Echelon Front model includes: identify the problem, take ownership, explain impact, provide solutions, and follow up with action.
- He connects this model to Trey’s text, appreciating its thoughtfulness and non-attacking tone.

“Go have the hard conversation with your team and identify the problem that you’ve created, the impact. Take ownership, provide a solution, and then you have to go take action with that.” — JP [18:17]

4. The Challenge of Initiating Tough Conversations

[23:09-29:57]
- Both hosts admit to their struggles with avoiding conflict, reflecting on personal insecurities and the desire not to create discomfort or additional conflict.
- They emphasize practicing and roleplaying tough conversations beforehand, ensuring emotional detachment and intentionality.
- They draw a distinction between direct confrontation and a carefully framed, caring approach.

“If we frame it the right way, if we can do what Trey did with me in this text message and make it very clear that, hey, this is from a position of love... it should be received the right way.” — JP [28:40]

5. Why People Avoid Conflict & the Role of Preemptive Communication

[30:18-36:00]
- Lucas shares personal stories of how it’s easy as a leader to coach others through conflict but difficult to act on his own advice, often convincing himself something isn't a big deal to avoid confrontation.
- They relate to a story from Jocko Willink: instead of waiting for “hard conversations,” he avoids them by having direct, regular, honest communication as issues arise, so problems don’t accumulate.

“I avoid hard conversations... I’m having all the needed conversations along the way so that they don't get to the point where it is a hard conversation.” — Jocko Willink (paraphrased by JP [34:36])

6. The Difference Between Physical and Relational Conflict

[45:06-54:16]
- JP recounts a story of stepping in to de-escalate a physical altercation at a comedy show—demonstrating that stepping up to direct conflict can be easier for some than having relational, interpersonal confrontations.
- They contrast “heroic” moments that are ego-affirming versus the quieter courage needed for honest conversations.
- JP laments a cultural tendency to film rather than act and links this to how many avoid hard conversations in daily life.

“Having that hard conversation is also doing the right thing 100%. It’s just different, because it’s not as rewarding to our ego.” — JP [53:21]

7. Final Lessons: Avoiding Conflict vs. Cowardice

[58:21-End]
- JP closes with practical and philosophical encouragement: avoid unnecessary (especially physical) conflict, but don’t use “avoiding conflict” as a cover for avoiding necessary, hard conversations.
- He highlights the necessity of preparation, professionalism, and an intent to achieve alignment—not just “winning” in conflict.

“Avoiding conflict is good. You should avoid conflict. However, comma, that doesn’t mean avoid having the hard conversations... We should also avoid conflict at all cost. But if you have conflict in your life when it comes to relationships, go address it. Be default aggressive to have the hard conversations.” — JP [58:27]

Notable Quotes & Moments

On the Impact of Honest Feedback
- “I wonder how many times I have not done what [Trey] did with me with other people in my life.” — JP [15:41]
On the Value of Preparation
- “If you don’t role-play a conversation... you could lose control of that conversation. And that’s the worst thing.” — JP [22:37]
On Jocko’s Approach
- “He is having all the needed conversations along the way so that they don't get to the point where it is a hard conversation.” — JP [34:36]

Conclusion

Timestamps for Key Segments:

00:00 – JP reads Trey’s impactful text and reflects
07:20 – Hosts discuss language and leadership brand
15:40 – Framework for hard conversations
23:09 – Admitting difficulty with conflict avoidance
30:18 – Jocko Willink’s philosophy on hard conversations
45:06 – Story of real-world conflict intervention
58:21 – Final thoughts: the true purpose of avoiding vs. confronting conflict

Tone:
Candid, practical, and reflective—balancing veteran intensity with humility, humor, and real-world wisdom.

Takeaways for Listeners

Avoiding physical or ego-driven conflict is wise, but don’t conflate this with avoiding the difficult, honest conversations that strengthen relationships and organizations.
Have a framework for tough talks: prepare, be genuine, own the problem, explain the impact, offer solutions, and seek genuine alignment.
Seek accountability from friends, model direct but caring feedback, and practice discipline in your words and actions.
Lastly, true leadership isn’t about bravado or confrontation—it’s about communication, humility, and relentless pursuit of improvement (for yourself and those you lead).

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Transcript

JP Donnell (0:00)

Good morning. This is the JP Donnell podcast, episode 113. I am JP Donnell, and as always, I have Lucas with me. So I am about to read a text message that I received from a very good friend the other day. One of my black belts at Double five. Not an official coach at Double five, but someone I look to as a coach, someone I look up to in jiu jitsu. And I'm just very thankful that I received this text message. It was a text that I appreciate and. But I'm also going to be honest that when I read this whole text message out loud, I want to be clear that some of the nice things that he said to me in this message makes me uncomfortable to read out loud, but it's also part of the text and I believe it brings the whole message together. And as you, Lucas, know and a lot of my friends that are listening, I'm not a fan of phrasing things. I like to try to pull up actual text, read the whole text. I. I know I've done that with you hundreds of times, which probably irritates you and a lot of other people, but I just don't like things that.

Lucas Pinkert (1:08)

Get never done anything that's irritated me ever.

JP Donnell (1:11)

You want to go back five minutes before we hit record? But I'm not a fan of phrasing things. And the intent behind his message was awesome. And again, it was what I needed to hear. I feel we have a friendship that I don't think my words could easily offend you and the same the other way around. We're both rather blunt at times with each other, and I personally feel that that is healthy communication. If something is said with the desire to help the other in any aspect, then I don't think either one of us would be offended or hold a grudge. With that said, I'd like to challenge you. You have a light in you, jp, that demands attention. That right and that right there is a gift from God. When you speak, people dial in and listen to every word you say. That is a gift from God. I personally believe that your impact on everyone you meet could be so much bigger than you ever could imagine. If you align your life to mirror Jesus Christ as close as humanly as possible. I am trying every day to do the same. And yes, it is difficult, but I know it's what I was made to do. The tongue has the power of life and death. Jesus defeated everything demonic with simply quoting scripture. God created everything we see and touch with simple words. I do think you could have a greater impact to strangers and your friends, if you can control through foul language. Again, I hope I don't offend you or give you a feeling that I'm telling you what to do, etc. This is from a place of love. So, again, I am very thankful for that text and the boldness that my friend Trey Warren had with me. And I'm thankful for good friendships that I have in my life. And when I read that text message, I smiled because he was right. That is something that I actively have been working on, is not cursing as much. You know, being in the military and the SEAL teams for so long, unfortunately, that was just an environment where it's just kind of what was normal. It doesn't make it right, not justifying it. But that's over a decade of living in that world, and you just get complacent to that. And, you know, I wasn't raised with hearing a lot of that. Now, my grandfather would. Would cuss all the time. He was an old sailor, an old farmer from Nebraska, did construction his whole life, and he had a foul mouth. And it really bothered my grandmother, who is a godly woman, and it bothered my parents. And there'd be times that they would say something to my grandfather and he would stop and he would correct it. Now, if he had a few beers in him, it wasn't going to be stopped or corrected. And I'm not dishonoring my grandfather, but that's just. That's what it was. And this is actually a statement of honor to my parents, because if that was a situation, they would just remove the kids. Like, we just wouldn't be in the room or we wouldn't be down in the barn. It's like, hey, if. If Grandpa Tommy is having some beers with his buddies and they're talking about things, and, you know, it wasn't like, crazy, excessive, like. Like really crude things. It wasn't anything ever inappropriate. It was, you know, cursing.

Lucas Pinkert (12:48)

And that is one of those things. And so. And that's why this particular thing is. Is so important for us to talk about. Because there, I think with strong language or swear words or however you want to phrase it, that there's a certain amount of the population that feels like that is them being their authentic self and that they have to find. They, like, if I'm. If I don't get to use those words, then I'm not being my authentic self. And like, for. And the reason I brought up Gary V. Is because, like one, he does have a massive following, but he has talked at length about this in particular is because there's a lot of. Of moms and dads who are like, hey, I want to show my kids your stuff. You're talking a lot like, they want to be influencers. This is kind of your platform that you're. You're doing it. This is your whole thing. But I can't let him watch any of your videos because you, you just curse the whole time. Like, if, if you cleaned it up, it would be that. And, and what's interesting is over the last few years, he's been filtered out of the lot. A lot of the feeds of the people that like, that I knew. And I've known a couple of people who were like, on with him and that they've. They've done interviews with him and, and we've had the conversation. We're like, have you. Have you seen anything from Gary in a while? It's like, I don't know. And, and so we would go and look like he's still putting out content, but he's being filtered out of. Of those feeds. And the primary reason that they're finding out is. Is because of language, is when you start looking at. Because one of the. The life changes that have Happened for a lot of us is we become parents. And so the minute you start down a road where you're looking at a fun crafts to do with your kids, Right. Then there's an auto filter set up for a lot of those algorithms, you start dropping some of the things that have that explicit tag. And so as a lot of his audience in particular has matured like, and gone to the next phase in life that's dropped because of the language.

JP Donnell (27:52)

There's been so many times I've done that where people will look at me and I'm like, I wasn't a real word. And they're trying to be nice. They're like, no, no, no. We knew what you meant. So it makes sense now. Yeah, it's a real word now. Yeah. So I know my just. My insecurity is I don't want to create conflict, so I'll just kind of let things go. And when things get better, it's like, all right, cool. We're good. But what's crazy is I also know that when I have those conversations, I always feel better afterwards because I also don't go into those conversations unprepared. Like, I think about it. I role play it in my mind. I might call somebody else and say, hey, man, getting ready to have this conversation? What do you think? Hey, could you role play a couple different scenarios so I can work through them? I don't go into those conversations not prepared. And so they get the outcome that I want of just like, hey, let's get alignment. Let's get on the same page. Yeah, try to go into those unemotional. Because detachment is a superpower. And if I go into emotional, then I'm going to say or do something that I not do something. I'm going to say something that, you know, might not be effective. You know, and so I don't know. I think. I don't know. It's not that I don't know. I have avoided those over the years just because I don't like the conflict. Yeah, I'm just. I am not comfortable with conflict. I don't like arguing. I don't like fighting with people. I just. It bothers me, which is not a good thing. Because in life there's. It's going to require us to have hard conversations. And if we frame it the right way, if we can do what Trey did with me in this text message and make it very clear that, hey, this is from a position of love. This is feedback like, I care about you. It should be received the right way. And if it's not, well, hey, guess what? That's an indicator to me that my. That my relationship with that person wasn't as strong as I thought. And. And I need to focus on building that relationship because if I have a really good, strong relationship, I can have those hard conversations with good intentions and have it professionally framed the right way, and we're going to get the outcome that we want.