JP Dinnell Podcast #118 – Beyond the Battle of Ramadi with Former Navy SEAL Andrew Paul
Released: December 26, 2025
Host(s): JP Dinnell, Lucas Pinckard
Guest: Andrew Paul (Former Navy SEAL, Leadership Instructor, Mortgage Specialist)
Episode Overview
In this powerful and candid episode, JP Dinnell and Lucas Pinckard sit down with Andrew Paul, a former Navy SEAL officer, leadership instructor at Echelon Front, and mortgage business owner. The conversation delves deep into Andrew’s journey from his New Hampshire upbringing in a military family, through BUD/S and SQT alongside legends like Leif Babin and Seth Stone, his unique pathway as a SEAL officer, their intense time in Task Unit Bruiser during the Battle of Ramadi, coping with the loss of friends in combat and after, and the lessons and legacies that continue to shape their lives and leadership today.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
Andrew Paul’s Early Life and Military Influences
[04:37–13:37]
- Grew up in New Hampshire's "Live Free or Die" culture, in a family full of veterans (uncles, grandfather) but not his father.
- His grandfather was a decorated B-17 pilot in WWII; Andrew draws inspiration from what was demanded of young people in past generations.
“By 21, he had completed his 50th long-range bombing raid over Nazi Germany in the European theater.” — Andrew, [08:10]
- Discussed how every generation questions the next, but witnessed first-hand the drive and commitment of the new generation when his son became a Marine.
The Path to Becoming a SEAL
[13:37–33:33]
- Desire to become a SEAL rooted in films/books like Navy SEALS and Rogue Warrior.
- Describes the complex, opaque process for officers getting to BUD/S in the 1990s; only 16 ROTC spots per year.
- Shares "Rudy"-esque emotional memories of mini-BUD/S and earning a rare recommendation to attend BUD/S.
“All I wanted was a chance. That’s all I wanted. What I really didn’t like about that whole thing was, wait a minute, I may not even get a chance to go.” — Andrew, [28:55]
SEAL Qualification and Platoon Dynamics
[33:33–37:35]
- Shared colorful stories from SQT, leadership lessons, and team bonding antics (including JP's notorious motorcycle “crucifix” stunt).
- Reflected on the dichotomy of leading tough, high-performing SEALs in training ("hard to lead in garrison but needed in combat") and parallels in civilian business leadership.
“The very qualities that made you somewhat difficult in garrison...made you good at what you did in combat.” — Andrew, [38:59]
Unique Officer Path in the Teams
[39:21–47:55]
- Due to SEAL admin shifts, was assigned as a Special Boat Team officer before taking a formal SEAL platoon leadership role.
- Explains the sometimes arbitrary nature of military assignments and the value of adaptability.
“Being the third officer was fine. You are learning...It actually sets you up to then be an AIC or OIC.” — Andrew, [42:19]
Assembling Task Unit Bruiser (Ramadi)
[48:26–50:57]
- Andrew, Seth, JP, and others “schemed” to bring old friends together into Delta Platoon, leading to a legendary deployment.
- Shares initial perceptions of Jocko Willink as task unit commander: intimidating reputation but ultimately a “hard but fair” and empowering leader.
Warrior Culture, Training Mishaps, and SEAL "Hazing"
[51:03–59:40]
- Vivid stories from workup: humbling land navigation “shakeout patrol” (running out of water), new-guy traditions, and positive rites-of-passage that bond teams.
- Contextualizes “hazing” as controlled, professional adversity; never abusive, always about forging trust and unity.
The Battle of Ramadi—Leadership & Loss
[59:41–75:52]
- Andrew describes the onset’s danger (IEDs, frequent casualties), how SOPs and training prepared them for chaos, and initial feelings of invincibility shattered by the death of close friends.
- First to run independent ops in Ramadi. Details the leadership burden and the moment of acceptance facing daily mortality.
“I got to a level of acceptance very quickly...I was not prepared to lose my friends. That’s something I don’t think you can ever really prepare for.” — Andrew, [65:51]
- Mark Lee’s death: Andrew supported team through grief, observed the profound effect on leaders like Leif Babin, and the pain of external criticism.
“There was a sense of invincibility that was gone...That brought me real face to face with our own mortality.” — Andrew, [70:21]
Tragedy at Home—Michael Monsoor’s Death & Family Support
[77:02–88:41]
- Andrew was home for his son’s birth as Mikey was killed; carried guilt at not being there, but became key in supporting Mikey’s family.
"You're where you're supposed to be ... One of the guys Mikey saved was the other officer who essentially took my place." — Andrew, [86:01]
- Discusses the true pain of service: not combat, but the loss of brothers.
“The pain that I have from my experience ... is the pain that I feel for the loss of my friends and the heroic, heroic ways in which they died.” — Andrew, [89:42]
Transition from the Teams—Leadership, Adversity & Recovery
[91:16–103:48]
- Details difficult transition out of military: leadership failures at senior level, prioritizing family, starting a mortgage career during the 2008 crash.
“If you’re going to quit, quit tomorrow – not today. Take one more step. Go serve someone else.” — Andrew, [158:39]
- Open account of financial ruin, divorce, near-homelessness, and slow rebuilding—helped by work ethic from the SEALs.
Renewing Purpose—Faith, Relationships, & New Passions
[105:13–118:23]
- Found true partnership in his second marriage, centered on faith.
- Describes joining Echelon Front, first as Chief of Staff, then instructor, helping develop the company culture and systems.
- Pursues ultramarathons for “hard things”—Zone 2 training, embracing challenge, and aiming for long-term health span.
“I want to be fit and healthy into old age. Long health span, not just long life span.” — Andrew, [124:04]
Leadership Lessons—Deference & Ownership
[132:46–142:19]
- On leading highly experienced operators: Respect the experience, seek input, don’t “fake it ‘til you make it” in the teams.
“A good leader recognizes their strengths and weaknesses and gaps, and they go, ‘Hey, how would you recommend we infill to this target?’” — Andrew, [137:23]
- Ownership isn’t forced, it’s given—make your people part of the planning and decision-making.
- Uphold humility whether you lead or follow.
SEAL Missions & “Non-Traditional” Warfare
[142:19–151:57]
- Addressed armchair quarterbacking of conventional SEAL missions (like training Iraqi scouts):
“If you want to operate… we have to bring these guys with us. Unless you want your kids coming over here and fighting the same war, we have got to train these guys up to take their own country back.” — Andrew, [150:38]
- Candid about the initial disappointment among SEALs not being able to do “Hollywood” missions, but stresses the mature understanding of sustainable victory.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On modern youth:
“Look at what was demanded of [the Greatest Generation] at such a young age. Kids climbing into an airplane... and they pulled it off.” — Andrew, [09:00]
-
On grief and service:
“The hardest part that I have is the pain from the loss of my friends... not combat.” — Andrew, [89:42]
-
On legacy and regret:
“Anybody who lives with no regrets is a psychopath. I disagree with that. I don’t think it’s healthy to live with regrets... I believe I made the best decision I could.” — Andrew, [95:44]
-
On continuing after loss:
“If you’re going to quit, quit tomorrow. Not today. Just take one more step.” — Andrew, [158:39] “Find purpose in helping someone else... When you start focusing on that, your mental state starts to change.” — Andrew, [159:09]
Timestamps for Key Segments
- Introduction & Background – [00:00–04:37]
- Family Legacy & Military Motivation – [04:37–13:37]
- SEAL Pipeline & Mini-BUD/S – [13:37–33:33]
- SQT Memories, Platoon Dynamics – [33:33–37:35], [56:39–59:40]
- Special Boat Team, Unusual SEAL Officer Route – [39:21–47:55]
- Formation of Task Unit Bruiser – [48:26–50:57]
- Land Warfare Training/Adversity – [51:03–59:40]
- Ramadi, Loss, and Leadership – [59:41–88:41]
- Transition, Mortgage Career & Adversity – [91:16–103:48]
- Faith, Relationships, Recovery – [105:13–118:23]
- Ultramarathons & Health Span – [118:23–124:04]
- Ownership, Leading Experience – [132:46–142:19]
- SEAL Missions/Training Iraqis – [142:19–151:57]
- Closing Reflections – [158:35–163:25]
Closing Advice from Andrew Paul
[158:35–161:19]
“If you’re going to quit, quit tomorrow – not today. Just take one more step. The most powerful thing is to realize we’ll do things for others we won’t do for ourselves. Focus on how you can help and serve someone else—your mental state will start to change... Go serve someone else.”
Final Thoughts
This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in military leadership, resiliency after trauma, and the ethics of “extreme ownership” both in and out of uniform. The bonds forged under fire, honesty about pain and recovery, and actionable wisdom on building teams and lives anchored on service and humility are unmistakable throughout. Andrew Paul’s transparency, coupled with the respect and camaraderie between all three men, makes this an especially rich and engaging conversation.