B (2:40)

You know, it's one That's a it. It's. There are so many rabbit holes that we could go down jump head first. The basic is know the material, material, material you're working with and know how to manipulate that material. If you can learn those basic skills, you can make anything you want. And it really doesn't matter what material you're working with. So if you're deal. If you're dealing with bladed weapons and steels, it's every different, every steel has its own quench temperature, temperature it likes to be worked at. Does it forge? Well, does it forge together with other things? Well, knowing those things and knowing where that metal is going to go when you hit it with a hammer, you know, is I think the basics of, I mean you can, look, you can grind a blade, you can just, you know, take a hunk of steel, cut it to shape and grind an edge. Okay, great. And there's nothing wrong with knives that are made that way. But if you're getting into forging, you know, you're, you're changing that metal with heat and hammer and the way you manipulate those things. And I think that that's a big part of the art of what we do.

A (4:12)

I love that analogy. When it comes to humans and leadership, like as a leader.

B (4:18)

Yeah.

A (4:19)

No two people are apart, are the same. Like I have twin daughters and they are completely different humans and they're also very similar. And when it comes to leadership, when to it comes, what I'm hearing you say is you have to know your people and how to mold them and craft them to get the most out of who they are.

B (4:36)

Yeah. You know, when I was, when I was building sets and running crews and things like that, a lot of times. Okay, gotta, I gotta go back a little bit. When I was a kid, spent a lot of time in the summer at my aunt and uncle's ranch. And you know, my, whenever there was a job to do, my uncle would just, you know, tell my cousin and I go do it. And you know, we'd often ask, well, how do we do it? He goes, figure it out. And we thought, you know, I grew up thinking this is such an amazing way to teach is put people out there with the, the necessary tools and say, hey, figure it out. I didn't learn until after my uncle's death that, that my aunt told me, oh, he didn't know which end of a screwdriver to use. But, but he knew that you two guys. My cousin and I could figure out just about anything.

A (5:37)

That's amazing.

B (5:37)

So he just supplied the tools and kicked us out the door. And. And then later in, when I was. When I was building sets, working for a set company, a lot of times I would let somebody try to do it in the way they wanted to do it, as long as it wasn't costing the company money.

A (6:03)

That's beautiful.

B (6:05)

You know, I'd have a way I wanted it done, maybe. And sometimes somebody would show me a way to do it that was outside of what I was thinking, and I had the opportunity to learn things, and they have the opportunity to learn things and. Or learn why it doesn't work that way.

A (6:21)

Yeah.

B (6:23)

I think failure is the greatest teacher you can have.

A (6:28)

Absolutely.

B (6:29)

And I think. I mean, I've got drawers full of knives out in my shop that I wouldn't sell because they're not. They weren't what I was planning on making. They're, you know, they went off the rails or they. They got a crack in them somewhere when I was quenching it wrong, or they. The grinds aren't right or I'm not happy with them, whatever. All of those things, though, are learning tools.

A (6:55)

Yes, sir.

B (6:56)

Each one of those failures was something that, that I said, oh, okay, well, if I do it this way, it's going to work. If I don't, you know, stay away from that issue, work around this issue. So all those failures tend to teach you. They teach you what not to do.

A (7:14)

Yes, sir.

B (7:15)

Which is just as important as knowing what to do.

A (7:19)

I. I absolutely love it.

B (7:21)

You walk into a new situation that you've never been in before. You don't know what to do.

A (7:25)

Yes, sir.

B (7:26)

But if you've got a big suitcase of what not to do, you can avoid a lot of the problems.

A (7:31)

Yeah, avoid the problems. You learn from those past experiences, and it shapes who we can decide that we want to be. Because I would be willing to assume those drawer full of knives that aren't where you wanted them to be, they don't all look the same. There's been modifications and growth throughout the years of learning. You know, one of. One of my wife and I's friends, Jen Tarantino, she works with me at Echelon Front, and her son Paulie has a passion like you, and he's in high school and he's in high school forging knives on his own.

B (8:07)

Oh, cool.

A (8:07)

And it's really been cool to watch his progression from some of his first blades that he did to what he's able to do now. And there's just been this steady progression of growth and him refining his craft and it's just really cool, you know, I love watching his Instagram page. It's PT Ironworks. P. T. Ironworks. And just to be able to, like, look at his progression as a. As a teenager, I'm like, yes, this is what we need. Need. This is what our youth needs. They need to struggle. They need to work through things. They need to, you know, overcome adversity on their own. And they need to have passion. They need. Yeah, have passion to grow.

C (8:46)

I'm just gonna raid Dave's drawers and sell all those knives for myself because I know people.

A (8:52)

Yes.

B (8:54)

Just don't put my name on them, though.

C (8:56)

Oh, just a picture of you from Japan is all I'm gonna put on them.

A (9:01)

So, Mr. Baker, where are you from? What was your childhood like? And. Oh, God, love and passion come in for this.

B (9:08)

I grew up in. In Riverside, California, which is sort of halfway between Los Angeles and Palm Springs. It's where you stop to get. Get food on the way to Palm

A (9:17)

Springs, get some gas or.

B (9:19)

Gas. Yeah. And my childhood was idyllic. I think I complain about it often enough because, you know, I wanted to play the blues and I had nothing to sing about. I'm joking, but I'm being serious. You know, my folks were. Mom was a teacher for a while, and then she. She went and she did dental front office management, of all things. Found that there was a. A need for that. Wrote a book about it. My dad was a labor union trust fund negotiator.

A (10:05)

Okay.

B (10:07)

And well respected for what he did and, you know, into sports and tennis and riding bikes and. And, you know, when. When. When the end of school came, I was driven up to the ranch and left there for the summer as free labor. But, you know, spending your summers on a ranch, you know, you get your chores done and then they hand you a fishing pole in the 22 and they say, go get dinner.

A (10:40)

Can I do that?

B (10:42)

And we would.

C (10:43)

So down.

B (10:44)

Yeah. So it was. It was rather idyllic. Certainly looking back on it at one of the things, the things you learn, you know, being around animals, because it was a cat, it was a working cattle ranch, and being around tractors and. And hay fields and alfalfa and piping and all these things, you know, that take constant maintenance.

A (11:12)

Yes, sir. At what age did the passion and did. Did your love and passion for this craft come into your life?

B (11:21)

Well, when I was a kid, my. My internal fantasy life was all about swashbuckling movies and, you know, the pirate films and Robin Hood and. And the various films like that other

C (11:39)

documentaries,

A (11:42)

Mr. Baker, if you just want me to backhand him, you just kind of give me the hand signal. I'm close enough where I can make that happen.

B (11:48)

No, no, no, that's good. So when I, when I moved to Hollywood to become an actor, it was the early 80s. I mean, it was actually 1980. So you had Star wars, which had come out a couple years before. You had Beastmaster, Conan Willow Legend, all of these incredible fantasy sword fight movies happened in the 80s. And you know, here I am, this, this, you know, young actor who's. Wasn't very good, I guess, but, but had a lot of passion to try to do it. And I always wanted to be in those movies, but I wasn't big enough to be a bad guy, I wasn't ugly enough to be a villain, are good looking enough to be the hero. So bottom line is I wasn't working that much. But I started teaching actors how to fight.

A (12:54)

Oh, that's right.

B (12:54)

I had done some, some martial arts training and learned fencing and things like that. So I started teaching, teaching a class, teaching actors how to sword fight. And through that needed equipment to teach with because. And there just wasn't a lot. It just, there wasn't a market. I mean, you couldn't, you know, like now you go online, buy whatever sword you want, you know. Yeah, A vast array of places to go to look for them and everything else. But back then there was, you know, American Fencer Supply, which were, you know, terrible bronze cast things and, or what was it, the, the windless catalog. And if you hit those things together, they crack and fly apart and kill somebody else on stage. Believe me.

A (13:48)

I do believe you. I shouldn't be laughing.

B (13:51)

I got some scars. I, you know, I won't zoom in on them, but, but anyway, through that I, I met a fellow named Jody Samson. And Jody was the guy who made the original Conan sword for the Schwarzenegger movie.

A (14:07)

Wow.

B (14:09)

Incredible talent. He had a shop in Burbank in California, and though I can't claim him as a teacher, he would. If I, if I brought cigars and beer, I could watch him work. I mean, so I spent a lot of time hanging out in his shop watching him work and learned a lot of stuff from, and then I was buying aluminum stunt blades from him and then, you know, and welding up and making my own hilts for those and, and it just kind of snowballed. A stunt buddy of mine was going to Spain to do, what was it? Queen of Swords, which is kind of like a female Zorro.

A (14:52)

Okay.

B (14:53)

It's ridiculous but wonderful at the same time. It's like, you know, it's. It's the one super hot brunette chick who puts lace on her face and nobody recognized

C (15:07)

because that's what everybody's looking at.

B (15:10)

Oh yeah, and her farm, they like, they grew rocks because it was, it was filmed in Ala Maria, Spain, which is just where they filmed like all the spaghetti westerns. So it's just that white, dry dirt. This is my ranch. You grow dirt. That's great. Sweet, incredible crop. Anyway, I got the job making the hero swords for the pilot. And then when they got picked up and went to Spain, I made all the swords for that. So that was my first really. That was like 99. That was my first really big sword making job for a movie. And that again, snowballed into making a lot of stuff for theatrical colleges and, and LA Opera and a bunch of other random things and, and, you know, knew a lot of stunt guys and they all always needed gear. So I was making a bunch of stuff for them and, and building sets at the time. But yes, you know, that's how it all started.

A (16:10)

So would you.

B (16:11)

I've always loved swords. I just, you know, it was one of those deals that, that I just sort of fell into this opportunity to make them. And, and. Here's the thing. Anybody can make knives and swords. Anybody.

A (16:31)

Okay?

B (16:32)

Heat, beat, repeat. That doesn't mean you can make a living at it. Doesn't mean you'll be good at it. Being good at it takes commitment to doing whatever it is, you know, whether it's standing for hours in front of the grinder, you know, with no more fingertips left and, you know, crudding your hair and crudding your eyes and probably crudding your lungs or, you know, forging things out again and again and again until what you drew is what you can make.

A (17:02)

Wow.

B (17:03)

So you have to. There comes a point where either it's a hobby or you commit to doing it.

A (17:08)

Okay.

B (17:10)

And somewhere in that, that the early 2000s, I. I said, this is really what I want to do a hundred percent.

A (17:18)

That's incredible.

B (17:19)

And that led to doing a number of, you know, film things. I got, I got really well known for being fast, being able to make things quickly so, you know, quick turnaround. Well, in Hollywood they have the, the rule, you know, the rule of two, right? There's three things. Good, fast and cheap. You only get two of them.

A (17:42)

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

B (17:43)

So, you know, I get the phone call, hey, we need, you know, we need eight katanas by Thursday. And I'm like, you know it's Wednesday at noon, right?

A (17:53)

Yeah. They'll be good and they'll be fast.

B (17:55)

Yeah, we know. Okay.

A (17:57)

Yeah.

B (17:58)

You know, this is going to cost you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, great.

A (18:01)

That's awesome. So during those early years, it seems like before anybody really knew who you were, what kept you pushing forward was your passion and love, but also the power of just all these different relationships. And you were able to maintain those relationships because you delivered, you were reliable, and you were good at what you did.

B (18:20)

Yeah. And, you know, I knew a lot of guys in the stunt community. I've done. I would never call myself a stunt man.

A (18:28)

Yeah.

B (18:28)

You know, I've done stunts on film.

A (18:32)

Yeah, it's fun.

B (18:33)

But I know what these guys do, you know, and my respect for them is so great that I would never call myself a stunt guy.

A (18:40)

Yeah, I've heard. I heard you say that on a previous podcast you did with Lucas.

B (18:44)

I think it's really important. I mean, you know.

A (18:46)

Yeah. And you're showing those guys respect. So I was an extra on Transformers 5. I was playing a Navy Seal, which is typecast. Big stretch. Big stretch for me to do that. But we had the opportunity where one day, Michael Bay, and who is a phenomenal guy to work for. Brilliant, like, just brilliant individual. He loved. He loved Navy SEALs, loved working with team guys. So he'd have team guys play team guys as extras. And one of the days we had the opportunity, like, hey, if you guys want to do some. Some stunts, we're going to increase your pay. And all the guys were like, heck, yeah, let's go.

B (19:17)

Yeah.

A (19:18)

And so we do some, like, basic ones, and then elevates from there, and guys like, okay, all right. And then it elevates from there. And guys were like, yeah, we're good, bro. Because then you see what, like, the actual stunt men and women are doing, and you're like, no, there is no way. Now, if I was trained and it took years of dedication, maybe, but to be honest, I didn't have the desire to do what those guys were doing because it was terrifying. We're going to light you on fire, wrap you in a cable. You're going to step on this thing that explodes in the air. The cable is going to rip you up, you're going to spin, and you're going to land over there, and. Oh, dang, we didn't get that take. We're going to do it 12 times in a row. And I'm like, I'm good, bro. Like, hard pass. The extra $300 today is not worth it.

B (20:04)

Yeah. And they do it over and over and over again.

A (20:06)

Yeah.

B (20:08)

A friend of mine, Joe Perez, great, great stuntman. It's funny because Joe's little short. He's built like a fire hydrant. And you see him, you'll see all the. You know, you'll see the SWAT guys all line up, and there's one cat that's shorter and broader shoulders than all of them. Say, hey, Joe's work.

A (20:27)

Yeah, there's the double. He's getting ready to jump out this window.

B (20:31)

Yeah, I'm gonna. I'm gonna tell his story. He'll get mad at me, but I'm doing it anyway. He got racked on a gig and, you know, goes flying across the ground and jumps up and they go, joe, you okay? He goes, yeah, yeah. Do we get it? Like, joe, how many fingers am I holding up? He goes, Thursday.

A (20:48)

Oh, shoot.

B (20:52)

Yeah, that tells the whole story right there.

A (20:55)

Hopefully, he was getting paid accordingly. For those lifelong TVIs, he is one of the best.

B (21:01)

He's one of the best riggers and just an amazing guy.

A (21:03)

That's cool to be surrounded by those humans. So, Mr. Baker, what were some of the sacrifices you had to make early on when nobody saw in you what you knew you had to offer the world?

B (21:24)

Yeah, I don't. You know, there's. There's a time with my kid.

A (21:32)

Yeah.

B (21:34)

You know, we. We just divorced when he was about 6. But, you know, you get busy and you're doing your thing, and you wind up not spending the time that you would have liked to. My son's fabulous. He's a prop master in Los Angeles. Incredibly talented. He and his wife, so good at what they do, and it would have been wonderful to have more time with him. Yeah. Did I sacrifice that for my career? No. I just was an idiot. You know, there are so many things that. Yeah, I like peanut butter and top ramen. So, you know, in the really poor days, I was fine, you know, So I don't. You know, there were a lot of lean years. There were hungry times, and. But I don't know that sacrifice is a big word, because I know people who have sacrificed to get to where they are.

A (22:42)

Yeah.

B (22:44)

You know, I've jokingly said that. That thing about, you know, failing in an upward. Upward trajectory, and it's not that I was actually failing, it's just that you. You. I. I would come to the end of. Of a job or a career path or whatever, and I knew I was at the end of It. So it was like, okay, I need to change that. You know, restaurants or landscaping or whatever. And, you know, you take the lessons, you learn from that and you move forward. So I wouldn't say that I had a lot of sacrifice. I've been incredibly, incredibly lucky to be in the right place at the right time with the right skills.

A (23:33)

Yeah. I love.

B (23:34)

If that makes any sense.

A (23:37)

I love what you said. It reminds me of my childhood because my parents modeled that of just continuously pushing forward, taking the opportunities that you have in front of you and make the most of them. And be thankful to the Lord that he gave you these things. And if this is an opportunity you have, you do it to the best of your abilities. And I think this is such a valuable life lesson for all of us to hear what you just said.

B (24:02)

Yeah. I think if you can get to a place where you've got enough basic skills that you can not say no to opportunities. I mean, there's some risk involved when you don't know exactly what you're doing. And you've said, yeah, I can do that. But at the same time, there's nothing like learning on the job as long as you're not going to hurt anybody else or screw up anybody else's business or production or whatever.

A (24:38)

That's what we would do in the SEAL teams in training. We would create crazy scenarios, and if somebody came up with a bad plan, we're like, cool, let's see how it plays out.

B (24:47)

Yeah.

A (24:48)

Because it's a control, like I said, it's a controlled environment. And.

B (24:51)

Oh, yeah, if you. Look, if you're in a controlled environment, my passion is crash and burn. I mean, blow everything up. Yeah. And there should be nothing but rubble. If it goes bad, there should be nothing but rubble left, and then you can. Then you can evaluate. Okay.

A (25:11)

Yeah.

B (25:12)

Was the bad one. Yeah.

A (25:13)

Do a debrief, reassess, recalibrate, get back in the fight.

B (25:17)

How'd that wind up with all this? These broken parts and. Yeah, it. The. I think the balance comes in. If you're willing to do that while you're learning, then when you have the opportunity to do something that's important, you're ready for it.

A (25:34)

Yes, sir.

B (25:36)

You know, in your case, it would be training. I think in the case of somebody who does what I do, You're a Smith. Make stuff for yourself. Make stuff because you. You. You want it. Make stuff because it's exciting to you. Make stuff because you saw it and you want to replicate that thing or part of that thing or whatever it was about that thing that excited you. Take the time to do it. See if you can. I always tell New Smith that to me, it's really important. If you want to make something, draw it as you. As you want to see it and then go, try to make it. And when you say, I've got it, put it. Put it up against that drawing that you made. And, and if you got close, well, good. If you nailed it, well, amazing. But most of the time, you're going to go, ah, crud. You know, I didn't get this. I didn't get that. That's not quite what I wanted. This should be blah, blah, blah, blah. Great. Take that one. Check it in the corner. Do it again, do it again, do it again until you. You can do the thing. Until your brain will do the thing with your hands that you want them to do.

A (26:48)

This applies to my whole jujitsu.

B (26:50)

On Forge, we saw again and again where, where. Where Smiths would come on the show and we'd say, okay, I need to make this. It's a rectangle with a loop. And they go, cool,

A (27:09)

Surprise.

B (27:10)

And you go, no, you go, dude, no, I'm. This. Yeah. You go, no, no. Yeah. And there's. There's a name for it. I don't. I don't remember what it is where what you perceive visually is more important than what you actually see or what you think you see is more important than what you actually see. And learning to be able to see something and then replicate it or, you know, imagine something, draw it, and then make it is super important, I think is in. In the. The artisan community. I'm just not so much in the art community. You can go crazy, but, you know, but you see, guys. Oh. I'm letting the steel tell me what it wants to be. That's because they don't know where it's

A (27:55)

going to go because they're really bad. They're really bad at what they're doing. My dad.

B (28:01)

And it's going all over the place. Oh, look, I made a noodle knife. It's a noodle knife.

A (28:06)

My. My dad has that ability that you said people need to have when it comes to woodwork. He's always been able to do that. It makes beautiful pieces of woodwork, and he'll have the vision, and he does it. And I'm like, how did you do that? And he also was able. He has an artistic gift that you have because he's always been able to do that as a chef. Like, incredible chef. Pastries, desserts, all Those things where you're just like, how do you make something that looks better than what I could have like visualized?

C (28:37)

Well, I just suck at drawing, so I can't do any of it. I don't even get to the first stage.

A (28:41)

Here's what's crazy. My dad doesn't draw those things because I don't, I don't know. I don't know if he's a good artist or not. I've never seen him draw anything but what he creates.

B (28:50)

But he's probably already. He's past that point. He doesn't have to anymore. When you know how it's going to turn out ahead of things, you know how it's going to turn out.

A (28:59)

Yeah, I guess that's what we call master of your craft.

B (29:01)

Yeah, yeah. But, but wood, I mean wood, I stay away from that stuff. It's. It's incredibly unforgiving.

A (29:08)

And I mean metal.

B (29:09)

If I don't have enough, I can weld more on, you know, I can stretch it. The old wooden stretcher just doesn't work in my shop.

C (29:17)

I've sent quite a few students after board stretchers and community service projects. Board stretchers. And there, I still think that tile bend. Yeah. I've got a few kids that are still looking for left handed hammers.

A (29:30)

Oh, I like that.

B (29:31)

That's good. We used to send guys out for a three fifths drill bit. That was always a good one. And, and the camera department was always sending interns out for F stop. A box of F stops. No, that was a good one in Hollywood. That was a great one back in the day because there were like three or four camera stores that really big and they were all in on the joke. So you know, they, you know, you'd send some new guy out for a box of stops and the guy at the store would go, oh, darn, man. Ah, the box is empty. Yeah. Go over, check this store, tell them where they're.

A (30:09)

My wife used to do that around for hours. My wife in the restaurant industry. Because, you know, the hot water that comes, it's, it's a non stop. It's continuous hot water. And so they. All right, hey, we need to drain the hot water out of this. And they'd have girls just sitting there like pictures dumping up pictures, just dumping them. All right, so I am taking us off.

B (30:28)

Okay, there's one more, there's one more terrible one.

A (30:30)

I want to hear it.

B (30:30)

Which is the special. The special. Paint that. Shake it until that noise stops and then it's ready.

A (30:36)

Oh my gosh, I am 100% doing that to my kids. 100.

B (30:44)

Okay, wait, there's one that you probably heard in the military. Did anybody get sent out to hear the cannons report in the morning?

A (30:52)

So I was never on a ship in the regular fleet Navy, but I've heard of that. But I know, like, guys would be like, hey, you need to go get a bucket of steam and bring it down here asap. And so buckets of steam were a big thing. I like the bucket of bucket.

B (31:05)

A friend was super important. A friend was told to go hear the cannons report. You know, talk to the sergeant, hear the can winds up, you know, out of the flag. Sure. I'm here to hear the cannons report. Okay.

A (31:20)

Your hearing loss is not service related. Okay? I'm gonna get us back on track.

B (31:23)

Nor is your change of trousers. Trousers?

A (31:26)

No joke. Oh, that's amazing. All right, Mr. Baker, you've clearly mastered your craft, and I assume you will say that you have so much more to learn, since you are a student of the craft and you are incredibly humble. But what do think separates someone who stays living an average life to someone who becomes an elite like yourself? And don't say you're not elite. Okay? I know you're humble.

B (31:48)

You are. No, I'm. I am. I am. I think I'm good at what I do. I. But I also know people who are better. I think I have a certain amount of knowledge that I love to share, but I know people who are more, you know, they have a lot more book learning on history than I. It's really easy to say, oh, just do this, and it'll be fine. You should do this, you should do that, you should do this, and it'll be great. And. But there. I don't think there's a single road to being good at anything. I know a lot of people who are brilliant at what they do because they have to do it, you know, the way they think. They have to organize things, they have to play music. They have to. There's just no way around it. I have to make things, and I'm lucky that I found a track that I enjoy that's a passion that I can make those things. So having a need and having the skills and finding where those things come together, I think is really difficult for a lot of people.

A (33:30)

Yeah,

B (33:32)

I mean, you know, it's. Yeah. I think we live in a country that gives you an opportunity to do whatever you want to do.

A (33:39)

Yes.

B (33:41)

Which is. I think the. The magic of. Of this country is, you know, if you want to be a cowboy? Great. Move to Montana and be a cowboy. You might not be good at it. You might not be able to earn a living at it. You might fail miserably. But if it's what you want to do, you can go do.

A (33:57)

Yes, sir.

B (33:57)

No one's. No one's telling you you can't. You want to open a restaurant tomorrow? If you can get the funding together and know how to cook stuff. Buddy of mine here in town, brilliant chef, fabulous guy. Did my wedding, bought a truck. Now he's doing. He's got his taco. His taco trailer. Yes. Out in town. And it's the. They're fantastic.

A (34:17)

I mean, what's the name of his. What's the name of.

B (34:20)

You know, he loves doing it. He loves cooking, he loves making stuff. He loves creating food.

A (34:25)

Yeah. What's the name he's good at? What's the name of his taco truck? In what city? Sorry.

B (34:31)

Damn. He's either in Whitestone or Kilmarnock. You know, on the weekends, right at the corner, easy to find, big white trailer is Ishmael.

A (34:40)

Ishmael. In Virginia. The state of Virginia.

B (34:42)

And right. Yeah. Right in. Right on the Northern Neck, Right across the Rappahannock River. Yes.

C (34:48)

Is he a whale hunter also? With a name like Ishmael?

B (34:52)

No, he is not. But stupid. Super nice guy and brilliant. Brilliant. What?

A (34:58)

You're just saying.

B (34:59)

His crab cakes are so amazing. Crab cakes.

A (35:04)

That's my Amanda. And I love when we're out on the east coast getting crab cakes for appetizers. It's just our. It's our. It's our thing.

C (35:12)

I think if I was gonna get crab cakes from a food truck, it would have to come with a recommendation. It's not something that I would just trust.

A (35:19)

I'm 100% risking it for the biscuit.

B (35:21)

The tacos are outrageous.

A (35:23)

I'm risking it for the biscuit. I've also gotten sushi out of a food truck in Denver, Colorado. That was some of the best sushi I've ever had. I was with my buddy Jesse Rembert, who's on Denver SWAT team, full time SWAT guy. This is years ago. I was there visiting. We're out and about, and he's like. I was like, man, I'm hungry. He's like, you know, sushi food truck. And I was like, sushi food truck. He's like, bro, I'm telling you, it was some of the best sushi I've had. But get us back on track. You know what you're just saying. Also reminds me of one of my best friends, James Gonzalez, army veteran, Jiu Jitsu, amazing at jiu jitsu. Owns a strength and conditioning gym here in Texas. Helps out at Echelon front on the ftxs. And he's constantly searching for something new, a passion, a craft. And he got into woodworking as well. And now, like, the tables that he makes are just. Just absolutely unreal. And that's why I was smiling when you were talking and answering that last question is because it takes time to find what you're going to be passionate about and good at. I'm. I'm passionate. I'm sorry, let me rephrase that. I have interest in a lot of things that I want to be passionate about, but I realize I don't have that skill set, nor am I willing to be disciplined enough to develop that skill set. So therefore, there is no passion there. It's an interest. A passion will drive you to do anything and everything. I was passionate about becoming a Navy SEAL at a young age. When everybody laughed at me except for my family, every single person was like, cool. You know how hard that is? And I'm like, yeah. But it was everything. So I had to learn how to deal with pressure and freaking work through that. And on the show, forged and fire that you started, Mr. Baker. Everything, and I mean, everything happens under pressure, which I love. I love that concept, by the way, because of my past and SEAL teams, combat training, guys for combat, and my current job at Echelon Front. And then because of that pressure, failure is almost immediate for most of the people that you've seen and worked with. What do you think causes people to fail on that show?

B (37:31)

Oh, well, I mean, we had. We had mastersmiths fail on our show.

A (37:37)

That's crazy.

B (37:37)

And there are a number of different things. I think the first one is being so far out of your comfort zone that you can't think about the things that you normally do, you know, being so far out of. Like, we had guys who'd never been on a plane before, never been out of the state they were born in, before flown to, you know, New York and thrown into this competition. We. But if you're used to working in your organized shop by yourself with no interruptions, now you've got a camera guy right here while you're grinding. I mean, this guy's, you know, doing acrobatics underneath you with a camera. You got a producer over here yelling in your ear, turn the tools off. Do this, do that. Answer this question, answer that. Question. Constantly being interrupted. You've got a table with, you know, a host and three jackasses judging everything you do. The, you know, it just ramps up the tension. And the, the, the thing that, that I think the audience eventually got and didn't eventually in the beginning was that it's not about making the best knife you can make. It's about making the best knife you can make in five hours.

A (39:00)

That's cool.

B (39:01)

Which is, which is a different challenge.

A (39:03)

Yes, sir.

B (39:04)

I mean, you need to know what corners you can cut. You need to figure out how can you make this as quickly as you can. And I think that's why, you know, when we got to doing the like, beat the judges challenges and stuff like that, that, you know, they were super fun threaded four of my guests and they were super fun for me just because it's like I'm used to working fast under pressure.

A (39:28)

Yeah.

B (39:28)

So this is l, this is what I do. Let's go.

A (39:31)

Yeah. On some of our earlier episodes, I know I've talked about this and I've shared it with clients that I speak with. You know, you'd have these amazing physical specimen. Athletes show up to buds to want to become a Navy seal. But their whole life was in the perfect environment, the perfect condition, like perfect meal prep, perfect post workout recovery, like everything which allowed them to be a high level elite athlete. Guys that went to the junior Olympics and high level college athletes, and all of a sudden they're in buds where the instructors don't care. They're going to break you. You're not getting the perfect meals, you're not getting the rest. You're literally getting none of that. And it's just straight stress and pressure. And once people get out of that comfortable environment, the stress they induce upon themselves would cause them to fold and break. And do you feel that the self induced stress is what caused most of these individuals to fail so quickly?

B (40:32)

Yeah, well, a number of them, I think failed by the self induced, you know, by that idea of, I need to make this perfect, I don't have enough time. And the clock was the biggest killer on you. You could almost tell who was going to go home first because they would be the first person to look up at the clock. Now that clock's in your head now you're spending all this time looking at your clock instead of looking at what you're doing, you know, so that, that, so we had a lot of stress inducers. I mean, that's, that was part of the game.

A (41:12)

Yes, sir.

B (41:13)

Is, you know, how do you, how are you going to source your material before you even get to work them? You know, some were tougher than others, but it was all that added tension that some people can deal with tension other people can't. Some people thrive on it. I mean, we had, we had one show with, I think it was our four youngest contestants. They'd all been on the show before, so they all came back for one show. It's like the young guns kind of thing. And these young guys knocked it out of the park. We didn't send any of them home in the first round because all four of the knives were so good. We're like, we got to keep them all.

A (41:58)

That's awesome.

B (42:02)

But learning, if you, the right way to say it, if you've been in stressful situations in work and whatever it is that you produce, you know, on a regular basis, it's not that big a deal. You know, crisis management, if it's what you've done, it just becomes part of what you do.

A (42:30)

That's awesome.

B (42:30)

You know, the, the earthquake happens. Everybody's screaming, running around, going, oh, we're all gonna die. And, you know, some of us go out and make sure that all our neighbors. Gas is turned off. And, you know, nobody, Nobody's falling through the floor, whatever.

C (42:46)

Right.

B (42:48)

So just because, okay, the crisis is over now. It's just deal with stuff.

A (42:54)

Yes, sir. So do you think it's important for us, our listeners, that are parents or soon to be parents or want to be parents, or even our young listeners that can invoke this upon themselves? Do you think it's critical that as parents, we allow our kids to suffer and endure pressure and also create pressure type of situations to, to, to, to grow and develop them?

B (43:22)

You know, that's one of those, you know, I'm, I'm no psychologist. And, you know, the 18 years of abject terror, raising my son, thinking, I mean, who put me in charge of a child? I mean, good Lord, this is not a. Not a smart thing to do. I think just like adults, child, Children need to be able to fail without ridicule.

A (43:55)

Yes.

B (43:57)

Without super highly negative consequences. And they, and I don't, I don't believe in, you know, everybody gets an award.

A (44:13)

Preach.

B (44:14)

You know, I don't think there's anything wrong in coming in fourth or fifth or whenever you come in, at least as long as you tried really hard. Some people are good runners. Some people aren't, you know, great. You know, Johnny doesn't run. Bakers don't run. It's. It's it's in our, it's on our crest. Bakers don't run. It's not because we're brave. It's not. It's because we all have bad knees. We just don't run.

A (44:39)

You carry a sword, so.

B (44:41)

Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, it's like, you know, get good at something else. I don't have to run. I'm a sniper. I'll just sit here with a big gun. I'll do artillery.

A (44:49)

My man. My man.

B (44:51)

Mobile artillery. Hook the helicopter, drag me off.

A (44:54)

I love that. I love that. You said the guys that look at the clock, you know, they're probably going to fail because they're looking for an out and, or they're, they're, they're realizing, oh, they're allowing that distraction to come in and take them out of their flow state.

B (45:10)

Yeah. Self induced stress. Yep. I mean, you know, and, and that fear of failure.

A (45:16)

Yes.

B (45:17)

Guys who did great were the guys who came in laughing going, this is going to be so much fun.

A (45:21)

Yeah.

B (45:22)

And it was, you know, that held that attitude from beginning to end. Yeah, they were, they were the most fun to watch. Most of them did really well. We had some guys come in and we had one guy, he was, he was fantastic. You know, the kid working next to him weighed, you know, like a buck and a quarter. And he's 6 foot 90 with, you know, shoulders this big and a 30 inch. And the, the kid's trying to do a twist in Damascus, but he's not heavy enough to hold the vise on the ground. I mean, so he's, every time he's trying to move it, he's moving the vise. The big guy come over and stand on the vice one.

A (45:59)

That's awesome.

B (46:00)

Now he spent probably 15 minutes of his time helping that kid out.

A (46:05)

Wow.

B (46:06)

And he went home because he didn't finish.

A (46:08)

Geez.

B (46:09)

But he was the happiest dude. That's awesome because he helped.

A (46:15)

That's cool.

B (46:16)

He felt great about himself. We felt great about him. The show felt great about him.

A (46:20)

That's awesome.

B (46:21)

Yeah. So. So I think it's super important that. You know what you want out of life.

A (46:32)

Yes, sir.

B (46:32)

You know, some, some people don't win, but help everybody else win.

A (46:37)

And that's.

B (46:38)

And man, you get one of those guys on your team, it's like, yeah, you know, it's the greatest thing in the world. You know, not everybody's going to be a star. And being in a support role should not be a less than position.

A (46:56)

No, we need that. I love being in A support position. I know I'm never going to be the number one guy or the star of anything that I do in life except for my household and my family. But I'm not saying I'm going to be a star, but yes, I am the wife's husband, I am the father, but. And that's where it's important for me to maintain that position. But in business and in life outside of that, I've always been that support role. I always will, and I love it. And I remember we were going through training and Jocko was closing out this training. He said, when you love your team. I'm sorry, okay. When you care more about your team winning than you winning yourself, that is when you start to become a true leader.

B (47:44)

Yeah. Yeah. And that's when you become a true team.

A (47:47)

Yes.

B (47:48)

You know, and there are always stars in whatever, whatever realm you're in,

A (47:57)

but

B (47:58)

those stars don't get to be stars without coaches and support people and everybody else. It's, you know, I do, I've done a lot of talks with people in different industries and, you know, people go, ooh, ah, you're on tv and you're doing this new, ah, you're a placement. That's so cool. And you're on tv. I'm like, dude, you're a plumber. Without you, my house will just fill with stuff I don't want in my house.

A (48:27)

Yeah.

B (48:27)

Should be going down the pipes, if you know what I'm saying. When that's happening, you're an electrician. Without you, my lights don't come on in the morning. You know, you, you, you guys are the, the IT guys. I can barely work my phone, let alone a computer. You know, without you guys, I am dead.

A (48:45)

Yep.

B (48:46)

So, I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm, I'm fine. You turn all the lights off, give me a, you know, a means of starting a fire, and I'm okay.

A (48:54)

But a good song.

B (48:56)

Country, the world we live in. Unfortunately, over the past, I'd say 20 to 30 years has not honored those jobs that are essential.

A (49:09)

Yes, sir.

B (49:12)

Why, why aren't teachers the highest paid people in the United States?

A (49:18)

Yeah.

B (49:19)

Just get dumber and dumber, kids. I mean, you know, there, there are so many things that, you know, why, why is this, you know, why is a blue collar job bad? It's not.

A (49:33)

It's.

B (49:34)

Try to make a car frame without a welder.

A (49:36)

Yeah. Good luck. It's not going to happen, you know, Exactly.

B (49:41)

I mean, the DOD's numbers on people in manufacturing just for military orders. The numbers I was given last year were 14,000 people a year for the next 10 years just to fill the orders that they already have. Oh, my gosh. That's how many people they need to be going into manufacturing the United States. But you watch, you watch some show and some guy's going, oh, manufacturing, the United States is dead. Yeah, we don't have the people going into manufacture. Yeah, it's a lack of bodies, not a lack of things for them to do.

A (50:20)

Yeah, we need people that are passionate about doing that. My buddy Pete Roberts, who started origin, it's a 100% American made manufacturing line for clothing, started doing jiu jitsu clothes and now they have pants and they have everything. They boots, pants, shirts, long sleeves, hoodies, jackets. They have everything. And everybody told him that it was dead and he said, no, it's not. And he brought it back to life. That's what America needs is this, well, desire and passion to bring things back. You know, I work with a lot of different industries, and my favorite industries to work with are, you know, anybody connected to the power, gas and electric because it's such a thankless job. But it is absolutely the backbone of this nation because if we don't have those men and women doing that work, this nation shuts down.

B (51:10)

Yeah. There are so many essential things that we are not focusing on. Nor are we. You know, it's. I mean, Mike, Mike Rowe, you know, his, his whole thing about, you know, trade schools and things like that, I applaud. The only thing I don't like was the name of his show, Dirty Jobs, because it just said, oh, this is a dirty job. Nobody wants to do it. Yeah, it's like, I mean, I wish it was called Essential Jobs. I understand the marketing and everything, but, but they, there are so many essential jobs that are careers. I mean, they're, they're literally careers. They're not easy, they're hard work, but they're, you know, decent pay and, and longevity and, and, you know, good rewards. But, you know, we, we unfortunately right now have more people in high school who probably want to be influencers than want to be, you know, shop stewards in the foundry.

C (52:17)

Well, being an influencer is way, way hotter, Dave. It's way more busing.

A (52:23)

No cap again, Dave, give me the hand signal. I'll backhand them.

B (52:27)

What can I, what can I say?

C (52:28)

I mean.

B (52:29)

Yeah, and this is coming from a guy who's, you know, putting a YouTube channel together right now.

C (52:34)

Yeah, well, I want to get to that. You know, you mentioned the stuff you're doing with the dod and part of the reason, you know, there's manufacturing statistics is because you were doing the cast and steel competition.

B (52:44)

Yeah.

C (52:45)

Which you guys just got done with around of those comps a couple of weeks ago. Tell us a little bit about that. And then I want to hop into the stuff you're doing with your, your new YouTube channel or at least what we can tell because we've been half sworn to secrecy because of your aforementioned new and love.

B (53:00)

I'll go. I'll go as far down the road as I can. Okay, so cast and steel is something that's been going on for a number of years. Sfsa, Steel Founders Association. I get it wrong all the time anyway. And it's all about getting people in college to look at material science, manufacturing design on an industrial level. So these college teams work with industrial partners to cast something we've done. We did George Washington swords last year before we did an African spear. Before that they did Thor's hammer, some kind of big ax. This year we did a horseman's axe. And this year. So last year we turned it into a television show. We shot the whole thing. It's been edited. I don't know where it's going to find a home yet. But it's exciting in that, you know, we've documented this whole collegiate competition and then we did it again this year. So we've got two seasons or we've just finished the second season, which is fantastic. And, and the, the kids are amazing. I mean, somebody, they're creating new metal. I mean, I don't, you know, the science is so far over my head. They hired me just to look at axes and smash things with them. But I, but so it's, it's, it's the, the show is, is all about promoting, getting into that or getting people on that track to get into the. To sciences and into manufacturing on a. On a major level. Then there's the forge fair, which I'm doing in two weeks, which is a very similar competition but for forging. And that's the, the. FOIA Forging Industry Association. They put together teams in high schools and colleges to teach forging and, and to try to get people into that manufacturing track. And when I say forging in manufacturing, I'm not talking about guys with hammers and anvils. I'm talking about I got to drive a manipulator. That was a press. Forge press. There was a 33,000ton press and I was manipulating a piece of red Hot steel that was 16 tons.

A (56:03)

Oh my gosh.

B (56:05)

Yeah, yeah. The thing's three stories tall. The manipulator tractors that move things around are as big as my house.

C (56:11)

That's freaking rad.

B (56:13)

Yeah, it's. It's insane. But that's what you have to do if you're making, you know, components for a nuclear reactor.

A (56:22)

Okay. Valid.

B (56:23)

Yeah. They were. They had forged the. Were they working? They had this cylinder that was, I don't know, about 30ft long. And they had a bore. Just slowly, you know, drilling a hole through this thing. And it. It's one of the hydraulic arms for some giant excavator. You know, one of those things that. The giant wheel That's. Yes, sir, 40ft across, that it just rips ground up.

A (56:53)

Yes, sir.

B (56:53)

Like coal mines and things like that. I want one. One of those. I mean. But you don't think about where these parts come from.

A (57:01)

No, I have never thought about those parts until you just said those things.

B (57:06)

But I'm telling you, you see them being made once and you can never look at things the same way again.

C (57:12)

No doubt.

B (57:13)

It's like the propeller on a ship.

A (57:15)

Oh, yeah.

B (57:16)

You know, they cast propellers and there's bigger. There's bigger. Round as the room I'm sitting in.

A (57:22)

Yeah.

B (57:23)

You know, weigh tons.

A (57:24)

That's.

B (57:25)

And then pouring hot metal, you know, to make these things into molds. Absolutely amazing, man. And I think that. That once you show kids that they can make something on this scale, they start to understand that they can. They can be part of making things on this scale.

A (57:47)

Yes, sir.

B (57:48)

Because that's all it is. I was running that manipulator. I'm like, I gotta. I gotta press like this. Just at home, at home in mine's, you know, 20,000, but 20. 20 tons. 20 ton press. This one's 33, 000 tons. But, you know, it's just the scale difference.

C (58:06)

You just have to pinch it to expand or zoom in or zoom out. That's all you gotta do.

B (58:10)

It's just all of this is a bigger hammer is what I'm saying. Yeah, it's.

A (58:14)

Yeah, that's.

B (58:16)

It's a, you know, what's the military term? It's a force multiplier. Yes, sir.

A (58:20)

Let's go. That is a force multiplier.

B (58:25)

This is. This is. Okay, so this is a super important point and why I'm involved in these projects. I believe that if you teach someone young enough that they can make things and they continue to make things, doesn't matter what it is. I really don't care what it is they're making. They can be sewing pillows, they can be making music, they can be carbon flutes, whatever. They're contributing. They learn that they're contributing. They are adding to something as opposed to just being a consumer. You teach a kid that. That you go on Amazon and you push the buttons and you get stuff, but you don't make anything. They're just using resources. They're not giving anything back. Yeah. So if you can teach kids early enough that when you can, if you can make things, you can add to society, the world, whatever you want, and you can make whatever choice you want on how you do that, but you're contributing. I think that's incredibly important, and I think it's a super important lesson that, that you. We should be teaching children.

A (59:39)

I think there's some connection to my next question. Maybe, maybe not. Who knows? But, you know, you study our past and you study history through weapons.

B (59:51)

Yeah.

A (59:51)

What have you learned from those that came before us that you like to apply to your life and you feel is important to pass along to others?

B (60:01)

Well, big thing. When the bullets run out, my prices go up,

A (60:10)

My man.

B (60:11)

I like it. You know, the question, what would you be doing if you were born at a different time? The exact same thing.

A (60:18)

Yeah,

B (60:21)

they. Look, there are a million lessons to learn. About everything from planning, designing, resource management, teaching that. That we don't necessarily do well anymore. Back in the day, if you were in the trades or a tradesman, you would take on an apprentice to pass your knowledge to that apprentice. That apprentice would. Would work in your shop until they became good enough to become a journeyman. And the journeyman would then take that trade and on the road until they found the place that they were when they became a master. They, they could then have their own shop. We don't. I don't think we do a really good job apprenticing people anymore, mentoring people. A lot of people are just kind of, okay, there you're, there's your high school diploma. Boom. Kick him out the door without a lot of direction. And I was lucky enough to go to a real polytechnic high school, you know, so I'm old, but, you know, I learned technical drawing and drafting in high school. You know, I had. My junior high school, had a metal shop. I poured my first aluminum sculptures in in junior high, learned how to weld. Well, I learned how to weld at the range, but I got better at it in class in high school. Now we tend to pack a bunch of knowledge, say, memorize this. And regurgitate it on the test. But we don't teach. I don't. I don't. Yeah. Get an opinion. I. I think we. I don't think we do a good job of teaching critical thinking anymore.

A (62:44)

I agree. And I. I know as a father, I've been guilty of that because. Yeah, I just have. There's a lot of reasons why I have, which I've identified and have to now make course corrections with my kids.

B (62:58)

Well.

A (62:59)

And.

B (62:59)

Yeah. And I think a lot of it's just, you know, for me, with my son growing up, you know, just fear of the world. You know, there were so many. There were so many dad moments where I had to just take myself out and I'm gonna go sit inside, you know, he'll be fine.

A (63:16)

Yeah.

B (63:16)

Yeah. As he races around the ranch in a go kart with all these trailer hitches right at the height of his head.

A (63:24)

I mean, this. You.

C (63:26)

You only have to learn that lesson one time.

B (63:28)

I'm all dadding out. I'm like, ah. Ah. My cousin's looking at me like, just go inside. Pour yourself a Drake. They'll be the kids that be fine.

A (63:37)

It's hard to break them, so.

B (63:40)

Which is remarkable. They are hard to break. I mean, you know, we didn't. We wouldn't have helmets.

A (63:45)

No.

B (63:46)

What's a helmet?

C (63:47)

Seat belts. No, seatbelts are for. For kids that.

B (63:52)

Yeah. I don't think. I don't think my dad's car, I don't even think had seat belts.

A (63:57)

Yeah. A certain year, they didn't.

B (63:59)

He had an MGB when I was a kid. 1962 MGB.

A (64:06)

Yeah. My dad got us a 63 Ford Falcon when we were in high school and did not have any seat belts. But in order for us to be able to drive it and obviously drive our friends around and other people, like, I remember my dad saying, hey, if you want to drive other people around in this, you're going to have to put seatbelts in. I'm like, okay. He goes, you're going to have to put seatbelts in. So. Had to do my research, and it was cool. Could my dad have put those seatbelts in? Absolutely. He could have done it faster than it took for me to, like, figure out what I needed. But he let me work through that and figure that out and, you know, figure out where I could drill and what I needed to be able to bolt those in and the reinforcements and washers and everything else like that. And I was able to do it. And I felt so Proud in what my brother and I did. And my little sister Sarah was helping us, and it was cool because my dad let us work through those things and it taught us to think. And, you know, as you were talking earlier, I was just thinking about one of the things we teach is as leaders, we want. And this applies to us as parents, which you're a leader as a parent is the goal of us. The goal as leaders is to teach people how to think, not what to think.

B (65:13)

Yeah.

A (65:13)

And that backs up what you're just saying. Critical thinking is a skill set we have to teach our people and let them struggle with, to develop. So you obviously have held very high standards in your profession. How have you been able to do that without letting emotions get in the way?

B (65:29)

Oh, dude, I'm an emotional nightmare. I'm an emotional 12 year old, okay? I'm like freaking lost boys 100%. I'm toodles. I've lost my marbles and I can't find them.

A (65:40)

All right, let me rephrase question. Since you hold yourself at a very high standard in life, what are some things that you are working on in regards to controlling your emotions and not letting them get in the way?

B (65:53)

There you go. That's a much better question.

A (65:56)

That's mo better.

B (65:58)

Much more better. That's. That's actually really tough. I. I have a lot of anxiety personally about finishing things, and a lot of that came from. And this is important that this is not me blaming anybody or pushing anything. My dad would look at things and give constructive criticism, and it was always with the idea of helping to make something better somewhere in my brain. That just meant nothing I ever did was good enough.

A (66:44)

Yeah.

B (66:45)

And. And it's why I try not to ever use the word should when I'm talking to somebody. Huh? You could do this, you could do that. As soon as I say should, I'm telling them that they have. They should do it the way I'm thinking they should do it.

A (67:03)

Oh, wow.

B (67:04)

Not the way they're thinking. It's not my project. It's your project. You should. You should do it however you want to do it. So finishing things for me, I'm very ADHD and dyslexic and all those fun things. So getting things, getting to the point where I'm done with something has always been high anxiety for me. I just finished something that is. Is on its way tomorrow to the National Museum of the United States Army.

A (67:37)

Good Lord.

B (67:39)

To be on display there. You want some anxiety?

A (67:45)

No, I have enough.

B (67:47)

Yeah. So I think. I Think learning. I think identifying where your emotional issues are that pop up and finding the coping mechanisms to deal with those things is very important. And I think the hard part about it is it takes a certain amount of personal honesty to say, I'm. I'm not good at this thing. You know, it's one of those things I had to explain to my wife. She's like, why the hell are you freaking out? You're doing this. It looks great. You're on schedule. It's not. It's not the way I want it. Losing my mind over what? Nobody. It's all internal.

A (68:45)

Yeah, the internal.

B (68:47)

Internal monologues. And I think those of us who do work alone a lot, you know, soloists, I guess, push ourselves to get better because we're our own worst critics. Damn. And those. I. I don't. You know, everybody. Everybody has a different story of how they. Their. Their internal critic got developed. Like I said, mine was that. That message that nothing's ever good enough, which is not the message my dad was sending.

A (69:23)

No, not at all.

B (69:24)

It's just, you know, you say what you say, I hear what I hear, but it's one that stuck with me. You know, I'm 63 years old, and I'm still worried about what my dad thinks. It's been gone since the mid-90s. I'm missing terribly.

A (69:40)

Yeah.

B (69:41)

You know, but I think those.

A (69:44)

I think that's.

B (69:44)

Those. Those things that are planted in your brain at a young age are often the hardest things to get rid of.

A (69:52)

Yeah, I. I would agree with that. I unfortunately cannot relate to what you said because I never felt that from my dad, like, I never felt for my parents. You're not good enough. You didn't do this the right way. It was the opposite. So I can't relate to that. But I also know that feeling of wanting approval from your loved ones, whether it's your parents, your grandparents, an aunt, an uncle, a teacher, a friend, a leader. And I think that's why I said that's healthy, is because it drives us to perform, which is rooted in our ego. And our egos can be healthy. It's when we can't control our ego, which gets unhealthy. And I remember I had something. I type. I do this often. Like, right now, I have it on my phone as a reminder. And so I'll type something up on my Instagram story. I'll save it, and I don't post it, and then I take that photo and I put it on my phone as a screensaver. And right now, it's something one of my pastors told me, Discipline produces desire. The more disciplined you are doing things, the more you will desire to do those things to get you where you want to go. And it was just this, because I was talking about how I need to be reading the Bible more and studying the Bible more. He goes, well, you're lacking the discipline there, so if you can invoke that discipline upon yourself, you'll desire to do it more. And I think about it like when I was training to become a Navy SEAL or training for MMA fights or anything else in life, I didn't like the initial start of that training because I wasn't where I wanted to be. But because I would see those results, I desired to do them more and more and more and more. And it was just that healthy drive that I had. And I had one on my phone for a while that said, become undeniable. And I shared that with my pastor. And he goes, that is a lie from the devil, because you are trying to make yourself be undeniable. Why? Who are you comparing yourself to and what do you want? You need to understand your identity and who God created you to be. And it was just something that I needed to hear because I wanted to be undeniable, because my ego, because I was trying to prove something, and it was an unhealthy version of trying to prove something. Instead of making somebody proud, I wanted to prove them wrong. And I think what you've been able to do is take that and, and take that unfortunate translation of what your dad was trying to communicate to you, to something that you've been able to adapt to your life, to be a healthy driver, and then also teach other people how to do that, which I think is incredible, and I have a lot of respect for that, and I appreciate you sharing that with us.

B (72:36)

Yeah. Something you mentioned about starting out and seeing results and not liking where you are because you. You don't have those skills yet. That is, I think, one of those critical thinking things that you need to teach kids. And that's why I'm big on people being able to fail without repercussion. Is that so many people, I mean, even with the blacksmithing, you know, the bladesmithing stuff, they'll go out and buy all the tools and, and get out there and go bang, bang, bang. And it's. It's tiring, it's hot. If you don't know what you're doing, it's frustrating. The metal's not going where you want it to go. And instead of taking the time to learn the skills, they just abandon them. I think that's way too common. And. And I think. And again, it's just my thinking, when you teach kids that it's okay to fail, it's okay if something doesn't work right the first time, that you do need to develop the skills before you can, you know, do something. That it's like. You know, it's like all the kids I know who are forced to do take piano lessons, they're very productive people. You know what I mean?

A (74:12)

That's interesting.

B (74:13)

That's true. Half of them didn't want to do it, but they were. They were taught discipline. They were taught that you can't play this just because you sat down at the piano. You had to learn all this other stuff before your fingers knew where to go. It's like on the guitar. I. I don't. I'm not good at playing guitar. I play, but I'm not very good. But I don't know where the sounds are. And I know other people who know where all the sounds are on the guitar because they sat there every single day. You know, they did that, that two hours a day, three hours a day, that it takes to become good at something. Now, I've done that in front of the grinder or in front of the anvil. I've taken that time.

A (74:55)

Yeah.

B (74:56)

So, I don't know. I wandered a little bit there, but.

A (75:00)

No, no.

B (75:00)

It's just so important to let people know that you're not going to be great when you start.

C (75:12)

Well, and I think one of the things that I'm most excited about, you know, we've been talking a little bit, and part of the reason that you and I reconnected about coming on this show is because you have a new YouTube channel, which you're launching, and you're doing some new things and some old things with the intent to encourage people to, like, start something. Start building again.

B (75:37)

Learn something. Yeah, and go out and learn something.

C (75:42)

And it's very cool because you're getting to combine several of your interests into one thing. And one of the things I think that's really cool about that is that it. It's not something that happened when you were 22. Not that I'm trying to be pointing out your. Your age, but I do believe you told us earlier you were 63, so, you know, it didn't. It wasn't one of those things where you figured all of these things out, and then at 22, you. You had it all together. And became this, this influencer. But now at 63, you know, the things that you like, and now you're getting to combine those things into something you're going to share with the world. So talk to us a little bit about what you're doing with your, your new YouTube channel. So at least what you, what you were willing to tell us.

B (76:23)

Three, Three, three things. Three things that I absolutely love. Well, there's four things. My wife, who is absolutely the wonder person. The three things are, are motorcycles. I love traveling on a motorcycle. It's, it's one of the absolute joys for me as somebody who's kind of adhd. When you're on a motorcycle, you can't be anywhere else. I mean, you, you can't. You, your brain can't be distracted. You have to, you know, be watching for potholes, birds, the idiot in the car next to you, all these things. You've got to constantly be right where you are. So a little good music on the road, Wind therapy. It's the greatest place in the world. So motorcycle travel is, is the one history I love history. You know, the, the quote, you know, those who don't study history are doomed to repeat. It is something that I think we, we can witness again and again and again and again and again with, you know, ad nauseam. But there are so many wonderful personal stories throughout history that for me, bringing those things to life, I mean, I come from a long line of rack on tours. We all were all a bunch of storytellers in my family. So telling those stories and doing something physical about that, which is the third thing, which is, is forging bladed weapons. So combining the three things, riding my motorcycle to some really cool historical place and then forging weapons that, you know, were used or that place is known for, or have this historical significance of American history. I mean, we're really focusing at least with the first stuff we do purely on, on the American part of history. And the fact that I have a lot of family history of my own, that, that, that's documented family history. I can trace, you know, family back to the, the Norman conquest. It's pretty rad. So I can apply people from all these time periods, whether it's here in the United States with, you know, whatever various wars or events that were going on to family members who were there. So the, the concept of the show is to find something. We, we found what I consider probably one of the most iconic swords in American history. I got the opportunity to handle it and, and replicate it. Jeez. Wow. Which is Outrageous. I mean, the backstory is a lot of what our story is about in this first episode. Brought in some friends who are history guys who, you know, helped tell a lot of the backstory. Got to work with the museum, the National Museum of the United States army, and do some traveling around, you know, here where I live, where the story kind of takes place. So building those stories and then building the. The weapons and going through, you know, the process of recreating these things and bringing history to life is what we want to do with. With the thing. And there are. There. There have been other shows where, you know, people riding motorcycles to cool places, but, you know, you and I hop on a motorcycle, we ride to Daytona. We don't get to drive race cars on a racetrack. No one's gonna let us do it. But there are so many cool places and historic places and interesting places that are off the main highway. And if you just take the time to get, you know, sometimes just a frontage road right along the main highway, you see America, you see the. Our history, you see these amazing places and people you get to meet. You know, this country is packed full of amazing things to see, do, and experience.

A (80:44)

Yeah.

B (80:44)

And we're trying to just tie it all together with history and. And my love of bladed weapons.

A (80:49)

I love it. What's. What is the name of that YouTube channel?

B (80:54)

It's Baker's Blaze. So YouTube at Baker's Place.

A (80:57)

YouTube at Bakers.

B (80:59)

We're doing. Usually when I do things, I'm sitting in the other room with a big sword wheel behind my head. So we're doing a lot of short videos on the swords on that sword wheel, because that's a project I did a few years back called the Swords of My Fathers. So each one of those swords in the sword wheel relates to a family member of mine in history.

C (81:17)

Oh, that's cool.

B (81:19)

So we're doing videos on that. We're. We're going to start doing some videos with a. A friend of mine who's a metallurgist, getting into a lot of the myths about metal, especially how it relates to weapons.

A (81:34)

Awesome.

B (81:34)

Yeah. There's so many. So much bad information out there.

A (81:38)

I can't.

B (81:38)

It's. You know, it's. The question is, is it logic or is it lore? You know, it's. Oh, yeah. How much of this is. Is fact and how much of it is just the stories that the grandpa told you? Yeah, well, not the grandpa was a

A (81:54)

liar, but, I mean, he was told what he's told. He's just passing on Stories. Grandpa didn't have that. Yeah, he didn't.

B (82:01)

Yeah, exactly.

A (82:04)

So, Mr. Baker, I. 1. I want to say thank you for your time tonight. I want to be respectful of it. I. I do have a funny question. I know Lucas probably has another question for you. And then we're gonna close it out. But just as you're kind of thinking about these things, my next question requires no actual thought. But. But I want you to think about this, because we're going to close it out with, you know, if you could. When. When it's time to close it out. I'll give you that, too. But if you could leave our audience with one piece of advice to help them win. Just any aspect of life, whether it's health, sobriety, marriage, business, just life in general. If you had the opportunity to share just a little nugget, like, just think about what that would be, and we'll have you close it out at the very end. But there is a movie that I really enjoyed with Liam Nelson. Long time ago. It's an older movie. I'm drawing a blank on the name.

B (82:57)

Liam Neeson.

A (82:58)

Yeah, I believe so.

B (82:59)

Okay.

A (83:00)

Rob. I feel like it was filmed in Scotland. He. There was some sword fighting in that movie.

B (83:09)

Oh, Rob Roy. Robert.

A (83:10)

Okay. Yes. Rob Roy.

B (83:12)

Yeah. Yeah. All right.

A (83:13)

I. I know it's Hollywood. I know.

B (83:15)

Basket Hill, Baskin Hill versus Rapier. Yeah.

A (83:19)

Yes. Yes, they did. I was going to bring that up to identify what the movie was, but decided not to. What? I mean, and I know. I'm willing to bet. And also, actually, I know this because listen to your other episodes. Watching those movies with you would probably be like watching a tactical war type of movie with me. And I'm just breaking down tactics and magazine changes and the gear setups. I'm like, dude, why? Who did they?

B (83:45)

Nobody likes watching those movies.

A (83:47)

Yeah, nobody likes watching those movies. It's me. I've just learned. Just shut up. Well, Warfare is. Was an incredible movie, Mr. Baker. I don't know if you've seen it. It's called Warfare. One of my buddies from the SEAL teams who is in Ramadi, after we were there, relieved, relieved us. He directed the movie, and it was the most accurate war movie I've ever watched. From gear to shooting a movie to tactics, to communicate everything. And I had zero, zero critiques of that movie. I was sat in awe, with tears, with emotions, with anger, all those things, because it was so real and raw. But I know there's probably no movies like that for you, but what. I mean, I loved that movie when I saw it. Like what? I mean, just give it to me. Break it down. Tell me how horrible or the good parts of that movie that you enjoy.

B (84:39)

It's not horrib.

C (84:41)

You have validation.

B (84:43)

No, no, no, Look, I'm. One of the questions I'm always getting is, is, well, what's your favorite weapon? And I'm coming with my sword caddy. You know, he's gonna have a, he's gonna have the, the, you know, rolling case with all my swords in it because it's. Bring the weapon for the job. You know, it's like, you know, it's like, do we have armor? Do we have shields? Are we on, you know, on horseback? I got a sword for everything. You've got two different characters. Very character driven in that. The Rob Roy character, he's, he's kind of depicted as a bit more of a brawler, but at the same time good fighter. He's, you know, leader of his clan and everything else. And then you've got the, what's his name? Getting the character's name. Anyway, you've got him. And, and he's obviously a duelist. I mean, this is somebody who has studied the sword. He's got a, what you would call a military rapier. So it's not a, just a thrusting rapier. It's a, it's a cut and thrust sword. It's got enough of an edge that it will open you up. They're fighting in, in shirts, so there's no armor involved. So you've got, you've got fast and nimble versus strength and power. So it's a, it makes for a really good fight. I mean, it's a good, it's a, it's good storytelling.

A (86:12)

Oh, I, I love, you know, that's,

B (86:14)

that's my favorite thing is it is. If the fight is good storytelling, I can, I can deal with bad swordsmanship. They, they, they have wonderful swordsmanship. And, and, and yes, you can grab a rapier by the blade. It's gonna cut your hand, but it's gonna give you time to chop the guy in half.

A (86:36)

Yeah, that was one of my favorite parts of the movie is just thinking outside the box. You have someone who's more like the sports guy versus a combat guy. Yes, sports. Jiu jitsu and combat. Jiu jitsu. Guess which one wins? Combat.

B (86:49)

Well, yeah, well, that's just it. I mean, it's one of the arguments that I've always had with, let's call them martial sports as opposed to martial arts. Is the, the Tag you're it syndrome. If I can. Oh, I touched you that much quicker than you touched me. In reality, we're both dead. So if you can't score your point and get away clean, you're dead or you're bleeding. I mean, everybody bleeds in a sword or knife fight. That's just how it works. But the idea of I tagged you first, I get it. Everybody has to, you know, go to work on Monday. So, you know, so you follow the rules. But it's a. There's a different mentality between knowing that you're not going to get hurt because of all the protective gear you're wearing and. And. And not having that protective gear. I. I have found that in my experience, a lot of the theatrical swordsmen I know, who do, you know, live fighting as well, are really good because they're. They're. They're super good at not getting hit. You know, there's nothing worse than having a purely choreographed fight. And you step on stage and you look into the eyes of a guy. You. You can see in his eyes he has forgotten every piece of choreography. And he's coming at you. That sounds amazing. It's like, just defend yourself until he

C (88:27)

remembers, you know, I believe James Grand. James Graham, the 4th Marquis of Montrose, was who Rob Roy fought. According to.

B (88:38)

No, the Marquis of Montrose was his uncle.

C (88:42)

Okay, so it was.

B (88:45)

It was Reggie. Reginald. Reggie.

C (88:48)

Archibald Cunningham.

B (88:49)

Archibald Cunningham. Thank you very much. Gotcha. With his demi cup military rapier. Yep. Which I have made. Made a copy of it years ago.

C (88:59)

Did you really?

B (89:00)

Yeah. Why not?

C (89:02)

Yeah, why not?

B (89:03)

If.

C (89:04)

If you can do it, why not?

A (89:05)

Yeah.

B (89:06)

Well, it's funny because I get asked to make things for movies all the time. It's. Can you make the swords and this? Can you make the search and that? And I usually just say no, because I believe one.

C (89:17)

One person recently asked you that I was told about, and you told him you can get it for, like, 150 bucks on Amazon.

B (89:22)

Oh, speaking of, I gotta give him a call. Oh, my God. Like, dude, you can pick it up for. Yeah, 150 bucks. Like, you can pay me four grand. And, you know, it won't look like the original, so, you know.

C (89:36)

Yeah.

B (89:36)

But, yeah, that was. Yeah.

C (89:39)

Awesome.

B (89:39)

I hope that didn't come off snotty.

A (89:41)

It wasn't meant to be.

B (89:42)

I literally was like, you know, hey, dude, you can really. You can literally buy one. No, it's. It's. I. I know a lot of guys who make these things, who have made these props, and I don't want to, I don't want to replicate their thing. Yeah, that's, that's, that's just kind of rude.

A (89:59)

Yeah, no, that's, that's amazing. Well, Mr. Baker, we appreciate it. We're going to condense our closing. Our listeners know what to do, all the information.

B (90:09)

Yeah.

A (90:10)

Click the links. This is in the show notes. You know, if you want to get your health on track, go to firstinnutrition.com jppod you get a month of free training echelonfront.com if you want to learn more about what we do at Echelon Front and how we've been tying these things into, into leadership and life. You know, relive health in Flower Mound and also in the Austin, Austin Arbor term area. Big supporters of us and the podcast, keeping our hormones and testosterone and all those things on track, men and women included. Because at the end, end of the day, if you're not taking care of your body, like, you're not going to have the longevity and the energy to do the things that you need in

C (90:46)

life, how are you going to catch that rapier if you don't have, have the reflexes you need?

B (90:50)

Well, you wind up looking like me.

A (90:52)

Yeah, that's a true statement. And you're going to need a little bit of focus and discipline. And so you get that stuff from jockerfuel.com you go to jockerfuel.com use the code JP Pod 20. You save 20% helps the podcast man. Mr. Baker, this has been incredible. And again, just what piece of advice do you have for our listeners that are just going to help them overall in life?

B (91:15)

Three things, I think. First, one, show up, man. Just show up. Don't, don't say no. Jump in and do your part. The second, which I kind of harped on a lot tonight, don't be afraid to fail. And nothing wrong with things failing, you know, that's how you learn. And, and I think three, don't take yourself so seriously. So many people get tied up in, in their image that they stop ex, they stop growing. You know, they, they, I've witnessed it with a lot of people in the entertainment industry or, or people with a lot of notoriety where they, you know, it's like, Slash is still wearing that stupid hat. Sorry. But you know, it's like, don't take yourself so seriously. I mean, if you can't laugh at yourself and, and your mistakes, then, you know, then, then, oh, you're just constantly protecting yourself and you don't learn anything new. There you go.

A (92:40)

Wow.

C (92:40)

Don't wear stupid hats.

B (92:42)

Yeah, I wear stupid hats all the time. You know what I mean?

A (92:45)

But if you're gonna do it, own it and embrace it. Oh, that was one of my favorite lines from a guest so far. So. Well, Mr. Baker, I appreciate you. I respect.

B (92:56)

I appreciate you guys. 100. Thanks for having me.

A (92:59)

I look forward to meeting you. Hopefully one day in the future be able to shake your hand and enjoy a conversation and, you know, well learn a little bit from you one day.

B (93:07)

There's a lot of cool bladed stuff that happened down in Texas, so we might head that direction.

A (93:12)

I mean, please let us know. But.

C (93:13)

100.

A (93:14)

You know, what I've taken for this episode is pressure doesn't build character. It reveals what it truly is. And like what Mr. Baker has done with weapons and his life, you must put in the work early, stay consistent and be disciplined to achieve the mastery. I hope this episode has been a reminder to go do the work that is needed, to put in the effort to build your legacy and to never settle. This has been the JP Donnell podcast, episode 136.