← JP Dinnell Podcast
JP Dinnell Podcast
Fighting Fear of Failure | Owning Other's Mistakes | JP Dinnell Podcast 125
01:05:17
Loading summary
Transcript73 lines
- [00:01]
A
Good morning. This is the JP now podcast, episode 125. I'm JP Donanell and as always, I have Lucas with me. So last week's episode with Ty Smith was awesome and I know that we're both looking forward to his follow on episode that's coming out this next week. But until then, Lucas and I are going to hit up some Q and A. I've gathered some good questions from different workshops, some questions I've gotten on Instagram, LinkedIn, and I know Lucas has some questions as well, so we wanted to hit few of those before we get to Ty's episode next week. So, Lucas, how are you, bud?
- [00:38]
B
Man, I'm, I'm great. I'm stoked to dive into this Q and A because several of these questions are ones that I've heard you answer in live settings only or I've heard Jocko and Leif answer something similar to this in live settings only. But some of these I've never heard answered on any of the podcasts. So I'm, I'm really stoked about this.
- [00:57]
A
Cool. Let's go.
- [00:59]
B
So question number one. What does extreme ownership look like when you did not directly cause the problem and it was something your kids did?
- [01:09]
A
That's a good one. I've also gotten ones pretty similar to this where it was an employee did something or. And you know, it's hard for people to connect the dots between taking ownership over things that they did not do. But because this question from this gentleman was about his kids little frustrations he's having, it's about setting proper expectations and standards. And you have to, you also have to take an account like you're their father. You've been, you know, raising them, you've been teaching them what's right, what's wrong, what to do, what not to do. And if, if my kids do something wrong, that's on me. 100 because I didn't have the conversations ahead of time. We didn't, you know, if they're getting to a certain age where I know they're going to be exposed to things, especially now with social media and just the access that our kids have to electronics and YouTube and, you know, social media and I, I mean, it's crazy. Like my kids, I mean, we told our kids like, hey, do not, do not look into these Epstein file things. You do not want to read those things. You do not want to know what's going on. Our kids could access that, which is crazy. My 14 year old daughters could be reading through those right now. So it's about taking preemptive ownership over what you think your kids might do, what they might be exposed to. And also understand that, like, hey, if your kids do something wrong, it's a coaching and teaching opportunity. Because think back to when you were a kid. You did things that were wrong. I know I did things that were wrong. And my parents handled, you know, those great. You know, there's times that as a kid, I felt like maybe they're being a little harder than they should have. But now, as I look back as an adult, I'm thankful for the parenting that my, that my parents gave us. And, you know, so if my kids do something wrong, what does extreme ownership look like? Me identifying the problem of what happened, explaining why they can't be doing that, how it's going to have an effect over them, their friends, their family, whatever the environment is. And I'm going to apologize about the fact that this is something that I didn't bring up because I didn't want to have the conversation or I thought it was awkward, or let's just say it was something that we've talked about and my kids still do something wrong. Well, if my kids still do something that they weren't supposed to do, one, I have to understand, like, kids are going to do that. They're going to go through some rebellious stages where they're going to push back, they're going to test limits. But also, like, I was not clear on the consequences. If there are severe consequences to severe things that they do and they know about that, the likelihood of them doing that is going to drop. Now, will it go away? I don't know. Depends on the kid, depends on the environment, depends on all these things, your relationship. And there's a lot of factors that come into parenting. But, like, at the end of the day, if my kids are doing something wrong, it is 100% on me as a parent. And that's hard because people don't like taking responsibility over things that they did not do. But that's the greatest leadership challenge and gift that we have is parenting. So cool. My parents, my kids don't do what they are asked to do. All right, well, there's going to be some punishments involved and. And then I'm going to reset expectations and standards and, and make sure that it's very clear to them. I'm going to have them read it back to me. They're going to do the read back. I'm going to. I'm going to actually say, all right, all right, Cora, explain to me what we just talked about and why that is something that you cannot do again. And I want you to explain to me what is going to happen if you get caught doing. And then we're going to walk through the punishments, we're going to walk through why there is punishments associated with that to correct the behaviors and tendencies. And at the end of the day, like I also want to be, I want to be building a relationship with my kids where they trust me as a parent to be giving them good guidance, good advice when it comes to life. I want my kids to look to me and say, hey, if there's something going on, I know that I can call my parents. I know that dad has my best interest. I know that my mom has my best interest. I know that they're going to help me solve these problems. And we've told our kids, hey, you're going to do things that are wrong. You're going to get in trouble, you're going to make mistakes. When this happens, tell us, don't hide it from us, don't lie about it because if you try to hide it, it's going to get exposed. If you lie, it's going to make things a lot worse and you will be in less trouble if you come clean and you take responsibility and take ownership and explain just what happened and help and let us walk through it with you.
- [06:20]
B
Yeah, that was always one of my parents rules that if we told on ourselves we wouldn't get in as much trouble. And we do that with our, with our three year old. You know, his, his little brother's got a bite mark on him. We're like, hey, did you bite him? And if he says no and is obviously like not telling the truth, then there's a different consequence than if he, you know, if he says yes. You know, you mentioned that this question also kind of applies to the workplace that you know, you, you didn't cause the problem and it was something that your kids did. Okay, you didn't cause the problem, but it was something that someone on your team did, one of your subordinates. And now it's affecting not just your group, but it's affecting your, your superior and some of these other groups. How do you take ownership over that?
- [07:08]
A
It's, it's the same thing. Like I'm still taking ownership over the fact that I wasn't clear with expectations. There wasn't, there wasn't adequate, adequate training put in place. I'm going to review the onboarding process. I'm a review all the things associated with that Individual in regards to their work history, there's their training, their experience. I mean, it's. People do not wake up wanting to make mistakes. People don't wake up and say, hey man, I really hope I screw something up, that I screw something up at work. You know, one of the things that I, I really like doing and we teach initial on front is, hey, if something, if somebody is having some things go on, if they're making mistakes, they're showing up late, their attitude isn't the way that it normally is. My, my first question should be, hey, is everything okay? Because if they're doing things that are abnormal, that, that tells me that there is something going on and I want to make sure everything's okay. Is their spouse sick? Are their kids sick? Do they just get a diagnosis themselves of their health or is there a health diagnosis for their kids or spouse or you know, something wrong with their parents or are they in a really bad financial spot because, you know, their car broke down and then something else happened and something else happened and something else happened and just, it's like, boom, boom, boom, boom. One thing after another. Like, I want to, I want to make sure my people are okay. And then once I figure that out, then we can navigate through and you know, help them understand and realize like, hey, what you did was wrong. You didn't fall. These, these SOPs that we have in place, standard operating procedures. You weren't using your safety equipment. You violated this. Like, whatever it is. I'm going to explain to them what they did and why and how it caused a problem, the impact that it has to them, the organization. And then again, I'm going to take ownership over expectations not being clear, training not being clear, me being too detached as a leader and not being involved in what's going on with my team or, or me being too involved in being too hands on and micromanaging too, to where they felt like that they couldn't make decisions. And because I had been making all the decisions and all of a sudden when it was time for them to make a decision, they didn't really know what to do. There's always a way for you to pull yourself back and as we say, pull the thread when it comes to ownership.
- [09:47]
B
So this leads us to question two. How do I make clear business decisions when we do not have complete information? That's a tough one.
- [10:00]
A
Well, yeah, well, it's, you know, it, it is tough for a lot of people because we get, you know, we're, we're so focused on like, okay, hey, we got to do this, we got to do this, we got to do this. That while we are heads down trying to make things happen, we're also, like, thinking big picture, and we forget that, hey, just make a decision. How do I make clear decisions with my. With my business when we do not have complete information? Make a decision. Take a small iterative step in a direction that you feel like is the right thing for the team and for the organization or for you, like, what your goals are. Let's just say, like, let's use Josh and I, for example, with. With on the path for T shirts and printing, which we do it on the side when we have time on the weekends or, you know, like, downtime is not like a big business that we're running. But for us, the iterative step for us was, okay, let's find a small place where the rent is super cheap, just enough space for us to put our equipment in there, some shelves, and what's the minimum inventory that we have to maintain? And what do we have to do each month to be. To. To break even? And that was the first step. Actually, there was one step before that. It was, how long can we do this where we don't need to be breaking even, where it's not going to hurt either one of us knowing that in the future when we break even, then we start making profits, we can pay back each other of the. The capital that we put into it, which is a very, very small amount each month. And so, cool. Guess what? We get a few orders. We broke even, we made our money back, and now it's like, all right, cool. Hey, what would we, like this next month, like, for the next three months, at the end of this month and then be able to maintain for the next three months? What would be a good amount that we would like to be able to bring into the business? All right, cool. What does that look like? What size of an order is that? How many orders is that? Okay, cool. Do we need to buy all that inventory right now, or do we have the ability to buy inventory as it comes about per order? Because we have wholesale. Because we have access to wholesale pricing, whether we buy 50 shirts or 500 shirts. Is the price difference between 50 shirts and 500 shirts so much significantly different that we should buy 500 shirts? No. Okay, cool. And so it's just making small, little decisions, not getting some big warehouse that we don't need for, like, all this equipment and, you know, all the stuff that we don't have. Like, we're not going to Pay for a bunch of open space. We're not going to pay, you know, to. To be in some really nice area because we don't have to. It's a T shirt apparel printing thing. So, you know, it's the same thing that we do at Echelon Front even now to this day. Like, okay, cool. What are some, what are some small steps that we can take to expand the business? What are some things that we think would help Echelon Front grow? What are some industries we want to maybe target some of our marketing towards or some of our relationships with that tend to develop into larger clients? All right, cool. Well, let's try it out and if we start to get good results, then we can put a little more effort, a little more effort, and a little more effort that way.
- [13:43]
B
How do I slow down mentally when everything seems to be speeding up around me? Dude, I think this is one that a lot of people struggle with in, in our increasingly fast paced world is just feeling a little bit left behind.
- [13:59]
A
Yeah. So, I mean, there's a few ways we can go with that. Especially with that last part that you said. When we feel like we're being left behind. The first thing I would say to that statement is a lot of people feel that, and I think a lot of us feel that way because of the way everybody portrays their life on social media. And it's just this whole keeping up with the Joneses attitude. And so one, don't get sucked into that, you know, don't get sucked into feeling like everybody is just passing you by and leaving you in the dust because you're not, you know, doing what you think they are actually doing. I mean, you know, I got the, like, social media is a highlight reel. And social media is great. It can be a good tool, but it's a highlight reel for a lot of people. So for you personally, how do I slow down mentally when everything seems to be speeding up around me? You got to make time in your day just to have some downtime, like have some time in your calendar each day. That is just time to sit and think strategically. You know, one of the things that, you know, Leif and Jocko gave me some guidance recently of what they want me doing for Echelon Front is building out some new versions of the FTX program that we have, building out this experience that we want to roll out. And in order for me to do properly, I have to have some downtime. I can't be running and gunning and operating at such a high pace like I have there has to be some days in my calendar that I'm not on the road traveling and speaking. Because if I'm on the road traveling and speaking all the time, when am I going to have the time to work on the strategic side of the business? So for you as an individual, I would put the time in your calendar every day, put a 30 minute block in your calendar every day. That just gives you time to sit and think strategically. I also think that working out is super important. If you have some, if you make it a priority to work out every day, that's really important. That's why I love Jiu Jitsu, because when I train Jiu Jitsu, I'm only thinking about Jiu Jitsu. I'm not thinking about my mortgage, I'm not thinking about my bills, I'm not thinking about calls that I need to do. I'm not, I can't think about anything else. And so it's important that you do set some time in your day that is time for just you to think, detach, relax. And then again, don't compare your race to the race of those around you, because guess what? You're not running the same race.
- [16:56]
B
You know, the. We've, we've talked often about how comparison is the thief of joy.
- [17:00]
A
Oh yeah.
- [17:01]
B
And I wonder, you know, there is a lot of. This is so social media driven because we do have this like inherent desire to compare. There is a little bit of it that is not reality. But how much of it not reality in the sense that like we see somebody moving at a pace that we think is super fast, but we don't know whether or not that's actually the case or whether it's just our perception of them. You know, when it comes to the end of the week, we might actually be more productive than they are. They just seem in, in meetings or maybe in a certain area where we're working directly with them that like this is the area where they don't struggle, you know. But the, the last thing that I'm, that I wanted to ask about, you know, scheduling that time to, to be thinking, you know, what does it, what does it take to do something like that? Like, are you scheduling out at the beginning of the week? Are you kind of breaking down how much time you're going to be using, doing what tasks sort of throughout the week? Are you doing that in the morning of a given day? Like, what's that look like?
- [18:16]
A
So that's. Yeah. So I have like this broad overview of what my months look like, my month, my Weeks. And then, like, I look at my calendar every day. I scan my calendar every day. And so I look at, okay, hey, what is tomorrow? Like, so tonight, before we got on this, I was looking at tomorrow just to confirm tomorrow. And then I was looking at Wednesday, I was looking at Thursday, I was looking at Friday, I was looking at Saturday, confirming flights, hotels, drive time, addresses, like, looking at all that. And so I'll look at that. And then I just. And then I opened it up to month view, and I just was looking over the whole month just to kind of get just an idea of what the month looked like. And then I looked at the next month and the next month, and then that was it. And so I do that all the time. And one of the things that this year, I want to dial in a little bit more is being a little more detailed and intentional with, you know, writing all those things down. Because for me, if I look at it and it's in my phone and computer, that's good. Like, because if it's there, it's there. But I noticed that when I write it down, it just. I don't know, it just changes my intentionality towards the things that are in front of me. And I, you know, I love having lists that I can check off. You know, go through the list, check it off. If I don't get to everything cool, transfer it over the next day. That's why I really like the planner that we have an echelon front, the quarterly planners that we sell now, next, later type of options for you to write down those things. But, yeah, at the end of the day, you know, also just doing a recap of the day of thinking about, okay, hey, what, what worked, what didn't work? And, you know, what do I need to focus on tomorrow? And you can't overwhelm yourself with too many things. That's the problem. You got to pick, like, your top three. If you hit those. Cool. Those are some wins. And then depending on how long that takes. Cool. What are some other things that you can shift to? But, I mean, that's why we talk about prioritizing. Execute. Echelon front. If you try to do everything at once, you're going to fail. So, okay, have all your stuff out. Okay. What are your top three things that you have to get done today? All right, cool. What's the first thing that you're going to attack? And, you know, just. You got to be honest with those assessments.
- [20:55]
B
You know, when. When we were going through the book on mental toughness early on in the podcast, you know, Andy mentions how you can do the. The 75 hard or you can do, you know, the. What is it called, the hard lifestyle or something like that where you. We essentially do the entire year.
- [21:15]
A
Live hard.
- [21:16]
B
Yeah, yeah, Live hard. So Live hard is the entire year in the different phases in it. One of those phases is prioritizing, you know, what are the three tasks that you're going to get done.
- [21:28]
A
Oh, yeah, he calls it win the day.
- [21:30]
B
Yeah. And. And that's. That was one of the things that when we were going through that year of. Of doing the live hard stuff and did that, that it was so eye opening to the. The amount of accomplishment that you can feel. Because when you write down a list of like, hey, these are the 15 things I got to get done today, but if I got done my top three, the things that were really priority, then, you know, the rest of those things were just sort of bonuses that would make tomorrow and the next day and the next week and the next month that much easier. Was. Was a big mindset shift. So. Yeah, yeah, that's. That's pretty.
- [22:10]
A
Yeah. And that's, you know, you know, we would always talk about that in the SEAL teams about like, hey, what are your priorities? What are your top three? You got to focus on those top three, you know, And Leif talks about how Tony, Euphrati, btf, Tony, you know, Leif had all these things, and Tony's like, hey, I can only remember three things. So give me the top three things you want me to focus on, and then we'll work from there. And I think that's a big thing, that we can all be a little more intentional. And on.
- [22:40]
B
How have you led when you personally did not feel strong or motivated?
- [22:49]
A
Well, I'd love to say that I always have, but that would be a lie.
- [22:52]
B
That feels like that question could come directly from me right now. So go ahead. I'm. I'm waiting. Fix me.
- [23:00]
A
Discipline and making it real. So for me, when I say make it real, there has to be a commitment to it, because I don't like to break my commitments to myself, to my family, to my kids, to my friends, to my co workers, my boss. I don't ever like that. And I never intentionally seek that out. Sometimes things happen, which is usually a lack of priorities and a lack of discipline. But, you know, Jocker talks about discipline equals freedom. And, you know, I talked about how Pastor Chris and I were talking through stuff and he said discipline produces desire. And so the more disciplined we are, the more we'll desire to do these things. And so how have I led when I personally did not feel strong or motivated? It was commitment. You know, I. I made the commitment when I was doing 75 hard. I didn't. There was days I didn't feel motivated or strong to go get that second workout in when Cody and I were on the road and it was winter time in Michigan and it a high of 13 degrees and we had to do an outside workout. You think I had any motivation to go outside and do a workout at that time, Lucas?
- [24:09]
B
No.
- [24:10]
A
Yeah, it was zero percent. And so it's like, cool. I'm not. I'm not feeling strong. I'm not feeling motivated. Well, cool. That's when discipline kicks in because I made that commitment. You know, there is times and you know this, you and I have talked about it. Like, you know, when I tore and detached my bicep and I had surgery, I was still going to Jiu jitsu. I wasn't training, but I was going to maintain that routine and maintain the discipline. The discipline of, oh, I'm in town, I have the ability to train. I physically can't train, but if I could, I would. Cool. Guess what? I'm going to the gym. And I know there's some people that be like, well, you could use that time for other stuff. You're right, I could have. But then I would get out of my routine and I would lack the discipline of training and being disciplined with that, which is important to me. I know a handful of people that were like hardcore training jiu jitsu, competing and everything got hurt, stopped showing up to the gym. And I still haven't seen them, bro. And we're talking it's been seven, eight, nine months.
- [25:20]
B
You know, that was, that was part of my story after I tore my acl. Yeah, was, you know, it was making. Making excuses about that, my situation and why I couldn't get back. And now watching, you know, our. Our buddy Isaac got his black belt and thinking like, I started jiu jitsu.
- [25:45]
A
The same time as he did a.
- [25:46]
B
Month before he did. Right. He just got his black belt. And I am nowher even getting my blue belt because it's that time spent on the mats, the discipline and being there and doing, you know, those kinds of things in that and that consistency, even on the days when you feel like you, you can't. That there's something about getting in there and doing it anyway that that keeps you going in the right direction, man.
- [26:10]
A
Well, you know, and also go back to this one of the things I, I missed the mark on is the question said, how have you led when you personally did not feel strong or motivated? The answer's still the same. It's the discipline to your. Your spouse, your kids, your family, your team is the discipline that you have to impose into your life to do these things. There are always gonna be times that you don't feel strong or motivated to do those things. But it's about, okay, hey, you made a commitment to your spouse, to your kids, to your bosses, to your team years, like, do it, like, like, lead through these hard times. And it's. It's going to make you stronger, it's going to build better relationships, and you're going to get through these hard times. You're going to get through these times where you don't feel motivated. Those. Those are. Those times are going to pass. Absolutely.
- [27:08]
B
How do you recover credibility after you have lost trust?
- [27:15]
A
I feel like you gotta double down. You gotta double down on the work.
- [27:18]
B
Yeah.
- [27:18]
A
Like, you have to. You have to show people that you, okay, first off, you take ownership and you apologize, and then you, like, just freaking overload that. You just overload the work that you're gonna put into it and, you know, just max out the work that you can do. Show up early, stay late, like, go above and beyond to do whatever is needed to regain the trust and credibility of your people. Because everybody makes mistakes, everybody's going to lose some credibility. Everybody's going to lose somebody's trust. Whoever it is with whoever it is that you feel like you've lost those things, they've also been in that same situation where they did it with somebody else, and hopefully they're given a little bit of grace and empathy and forgiveness. If not, hopefully you get it. But you have to forgive yourself. But you have to get to work. Like, you. Now is not the time to be like, oh, well, I'm just gonna kind of, you know, I feel really awkward, and I don't know what people are thinking about me. Who cares? Who cares what they're thinking about you? We actually do know what they're thinking about you. They don't trust you. You lost some credibility. All right, cool. Whatever. Like, rebuild it. Like, what's the alternative? I mean, that's the thing. I would say it's like, what's the alternative if you really want to regain somebody's trust and credibility? You have to put in the work, and you have to be willing to put in the time, because it takes time to regain trust and credibility.
- [29:00]
B
Next one here. Why do Some of my team resist responsibility even when they say they want it.
- [29:07]
A
Fear of failure. It's a fear of failure, and they don't want to make a mistake, and they don't want to get in trouble. And if you're. If your team is resisting responsibility even though they say they want it, you have to actually look at yourself and ask yourself, how have you reacted as a leader in the past when they made some mistakes? Because if you did not handle it the right way, they're not going to want to be put in that situation again. And so if that is the case, or there's a possibility that they might have encountered that in the. In a previous work environment or with a previous team or previous spouse or, you know, whatever the family dynamics were, it's your time to build their confidence by giving them something to go execute on. Give them something that they can take ownership over and then guide them along. And if they fail, then you get to take ownership and help them work through it and be like, hey, Lucas, hey, you know what? We're working on this project. We missed a deadline, man. I'm sorry. I wasn't clear on what was expected to hit that deadline. You put in a lot of work. There's a lot of effort. We didn't have the proper tools in place. The team wasn't organized the way that it should have been organized. Hey, moving forward, next time, here's some things that we need to think about. Not a big deal, but this is what we're going to do. Moving forward, what do you think we should do? And I'm going to drive the ownership back down to you and, and show you that I trust you. I'm going to give you things and I'm going to trust you. And then over time, when people realize, like, oh, like, okay, my leadership trusts me and, okay, I don't want to make mistakes, but if I do make mistakes, like, they're not cutting my head off. Like, okay, this isn't as bad of a situation as I thought.
- [31:05]
B
So is this one of those instances where you would begin to micromanage in order to get the results that you want from this person? You know, we've talked a lot about how micromanagement is.
- [31:20]
A
It's a tool.
- [31:20]
B
Yeah, it's a tool. If used properly. If, like, if that is your go to style, you're going to burn your people out. But if used properly, it can help. Is this one of those times if somebody's resisting responsibility, where you use micromanagement as a tool to try to get Them.
- [31:37]
A
Yeah.
- [31:37]
B
I mean, on board or up to speed or however you would, you would put.
- [31:40]
A
Yeah. I don't know if I would use the word micromanagement for this. Maybe. Maybe you would. I would. It's in my mind. The word that comes, that comes to mind is like a hybrid of this. Like, hybrid. Like I just as I was hearing you say this, like a hybrid of like micromanagement. It would be like, hey, Lucas, I understand like that there's some hesitancy that you have to taking on this project. There's a lot of responsibility. Hey, I want you to know that this is on me and I trust you. So if your team doesn't hit the projected numbers that we want for this quarter, we're going to work through it and I'm going to, we're going to put all these things in place that I know to be true to that will actually help us get those numbers. I want you to try this method. This is on me, but I want you to take lead on this. What are some ideas though that you have to make it a little bit better? I'm still going to want your ideas. And this is like, I would do this if somebody was just like straight up, like, no, I don't want responsibility. I don't want to do this. This is the time I would be like, nope, you're going to do this. You need to do this. Because I recognize that there's a lack of confidence. Now, ideally I would do this in a training situation. I would create some sort of a, an environment to where if they fail, it does not matter. But if, but if they win, they build their confidence. It builds their confidence in their abilities and it builds their confidence in my support to them and it builds their confidence in how I would react to that failure. Because if they fail in training and I lose my mind, well, now I'm hurting that relationship. But if they lose, if they fail in training and I'm just like, hey, cool, what were our lessons learned? What would you do different next time? All right, cool. Rejoic. Let's go back out. It's the same thing. I do it like I've done with my kids. Hey, no, do it this way. This is how you need to do it because of safety. Like I was teaching Hayden how to use a chainsaw the last time he was out. Aiden and I and my brother in law Brian were in the backyard. There's some trees that we needed to cut down. And so Brian is helping take lead because my arm was still kind of not where it needed to be. I was in the brace. Do you think I just handed Hayden and chainsaw and said, all right, hey, push that button, pull the trigger and just cut through that wood.
- [34:12]
B
I. I would hope not.
- [34:14]
A
No, absolutely not. I said, hey, bud, here's how you hold it. Here's the button you push. Here's what's going to happen. This is the break. This is what's going to happen. And I was showing him and I said, hey, for the, for where the branch is right here, here's how you have to cut it and here's why. Because if you don't, it's going to pinch the blade. It's going to jam it up. It could kick back. Hey, don't stand like this. You need a little bit of wider base. This is what you need to do. It was. I wasn' handing my son a chainsaw and be like, all right, bud, go cut up some wood. Hope you don't kill yourself. You know, and my brother in law, Brian is sitting there watching super closely, too, and he's stepping in and be like, all right, hey, hey, remember what JP Said? Turn the blade this way. Boom.
- [35:01]
B
Right?
- [35:02]
A
And so. And then when there was stuff that, like, I physically couldn't do, Brian was doing it. And so, yeah, there was an absolute time for us to micromanage. And but him and Aiden by the end of it were just like, ripping through the wood. They knew the sizes they needed to cut so that it could fit in the fire pit. They knew how to stack it. And then they went and did all that on their own, which built them. Guess what they got from that? A little bit of confidence. And then also it was probably a subconscious thing because it wasn't like, they're like, man, I really trust my dad and uncle now. No, they, that's like, that was a subconscious benefit of, of. Of that situation.
- [35:48]
B
You know, this, this leads us into that next question. So you, you talk about how you were teaching this skill to Hayden. And the next question. This is one that we get a lot. How do I help my kids build confidence without becoming arrogant? Because that is a super. A super fine line, especially when it has to do with areas like jiu jitsu or whether it's academic or athletic performances and you become a person who's winning. You know, how do you help them to. To build confidence without becoming arrogant and cocky?
- [36:26]
A
Get them into jiu jitsu because that will humble them for the rest of their lives. But seriously, have your kids change jiu jitsu but have them do hard things have your kids do hard things and encourage them and celebrate their wins and celebrate their effort when they fail. I don't. I don't celebrate. I try not to. And I'm trying to get it to where, like, this is what we do all the time, but I don't celebrate the actual win. It's the effort that they put in. Like, you know, Aiden, when he would wrestle, I freaking celebrated that kid. Every single match he had. And did he go undefeated, Lucas? No.
- [37:15]
B
No.
- [37:16]
A
But you know what? I celebrated every single freaking time he stepped out on the mat. Because he worked hard. He was legitimately fearless out there. He had that skill set and special trait superpower that, like, he would be out there walking out on the mat and I'd see other kids terrified. And Aiden just had his normal face if he was afraid. He did not show it once to anyone. There was one time I took a picture of the dude he was supposed to be going up against, and I sent it to, like, a bunch of different people. And I remember Cody responded like, good Lord, that dude looks like he has a mortgage and a family of four. There's no way he's in high school. And guess what? Aiden whooped his butt. And so have your kids do hard things. Put them in wrestling, put them in jiu jitsu. Have them do some, like, actual manual labor around your house or your apartment and clean up. And, hey, have them study and. And do, like, well on tests. Like, you know, and that's also kind of going back to something we said a little bit ago is like, yeah, there's a time, like, we as parents will say, no, you are going to study. You. You're not just going to go run through this info. You're going to study. And when they do that and they. They do well on their test, we praise and reward the effort that they put into it, knowing, like, all right, cool, like, you're doing well, but you have to. You have to have moments where your kids are going to be humbled in a. In a. In a good environment, like a training environment and controlled environment. That's why I think sports are great. Kids should be playing sports. I think kids should be doing physically challenging things because they recognize that they're not always the biggest, they're not always the fastest, they're not always the strongest, they're not always the smartest. There's always somebody out there that's better than you. And part of that is also just telling your kids that, hey, there's always gonna be somebody out there better than you. You have to remain humble because life is going to humble you. And I think it's about the environment that you raise your kids in.
- [39:39]
B
I think that's one of the things that our jiu jitsu coaches at Double Five do so well is. Is keeping, no matter what your, your rank is, that there is somebody at the gym that is a little better than you and, and not quite where you think you are in the sense that, like, if you're, you know, if you're a purple belt, they're gonna pair you. You know, if you get a little cocky, they're going to pair you with the blue belt that they know is going to be able to give you your hardest rounds and smoke you. Yeah. To just give you that little bit of an ego check. But the way that I've seen them handle it with kids is so great because they do it in a way that doesn't break the kid's ego, it doesn't leave it shattered, but it gives it enough of a wound to where, you know, they, maybe they get a little salty, but not so much that it keeps them from getting back on the mats.
- [40:50]
A
Yeah.
- [40:51]
B
You know, it's, it's enough to just like to, to bend it and give it a little bit of a bruise, but not to, not to break into. Shatter it. And that finding that balance, I think, is so tough.
- [41:02]
A
Yeah. And then they also balance that with giving you some wins afterwards.
- [41:07]
B
Yep.
- [41:08]
A
So that you feel that defeat, you are humbled, but then you get a little bit of progress. You get a little bit of that confidence back. Yeah. The way they do it is awesome.
- [41:18]
B
Well, and this is one of those things, too, that so many of us can apply to our areas of leadership. And I want to pick your brain about this a bit because we've gotten a lot of questions about this generation. Right. Like how do we handle kids in this new generation or this new generation X, Y and Z. Right. They come in, they've got entitlement and they've got arrogance and all these kinds of things. And if you look back through every leadership book that's ever been written, every leader has had to deal with this new arrogant generation going back to like the, the 1840s when we've got, you know, generals from France that are writing about the, the new entitled generation. So it's not a new issue, but with, with somebody that is coming in, maybe they've got a little bit of a sense of entitlement. Maybe, you know, they've. They've come in and they've got a Bunch of letters before and after their name. Because they, you know, have done a lot of schooling, maybe they've got a lot of certifications before they actually make it into the workforce. How do you help them to, one, get a little bit of humility and two, gain confidence in the process. Right. How do you get them to that point where. Where you put them in a place where they are doing realistic self assessments and realizing that they're not the rock star that they think they are, but that one day maybe they could be. Because it's different doing it with your kids than it is with the people you're leading. In some respects, I think.
- [42:57]
A
Yep. I'm glad you said that because I was gonna say, in some respects, it's not. It's actually the same as a parent. You guide and teach and tell your kids what to do and what not to do. Correct.
- [43:12]
B
I try to. Unless.
- [43:14]
A
Okay.
- [43:14]
B
Unless Kirsten tells me I've got this, and then I sit way far back in the other area.
- [43:19]
A
And then. But there's your wife doing that as a leader. Right. And so we tell our kids what they need to do, what they should do, what they should not do, and why they cannot do those things and why they need to be doing those things. Because we're teaching them. If I want to be a firefighter like my son who's in the fire academy, guess what? He's in the fire academy. The fire academy is being conducted at a college. They are teaching him how to be a firefighter, which means guess what they're telling him. This is what you do, and here's why. This is what you don't do, and here's why. And he's being tested, he's being evaluated to make sure he has the skill sets to be a firefighter, and it's pass or fail. Like, he's either going to pass the academy or he's going to fail, which he's going to pass because he's doing well and he's passionate about it and he loves it. And he just sent me a text message and that said, I passed my test. And I said, awesome, Congratulations. I'm proud of you. I love you. But these are things you actually have to tell people. If I'm working at a company and I'm in the. Let's say I'm a senior. Okay. I'll give you an actual example at a Sean front part of the executive leadership team when we bring on new instructors. What do you think? Jocko, Leif, Dave, Jamie, and myself all share with these Instructors, what we do and what we don't do, what's expected of them? Hey, accountability, responsibility and standards. Here's what you're accountable for, here's what you're responsible for. Here's the standards that we have set in place. Hey, guess what? Humility is the number one characteristic of every great leader. This is what we teach. We're not going to have arrogant instructors at echelon front. Hey, cover and move is the foundation of everything that we do. That means, guess what? We build relationships and we build genuine relationships because we care. Hey, if somebody is asking you questions, that's because your communication was not effective. Hey, detach from your emotions. Detachment's a superpower, right? So we go through all these things and you know, the, the gig that I'm doing tomorrow. One of the things that I was talking with the leaders ahead of time on the prevent call is they are having an issue with their people adhering to their SOPs, their standard operating procedures. And I was just asking a bunch of questions. I already knew what it was, but I wanted them to see it as we're asking questions. And I also wanted to get insight in regards to what they did and how they did it in regards to onboarding and training. And one of the things they don't do is follow on training. So they have this initial onboarding training and then they're just, people are out there because they don't have any official follow on training because it's all like, hey, on the job, in the field, with the field leaders, that's how they build their skill sets. And you know, people get complacent, you start cutting corners and you know, that's a problem. So these are things that we actually have to tell people. And with the, with the current generation, it's the same like give them expectations, give them standards, but you have to revisit those things.
- [46:51]
B
I'm really curious about this one. So if we don't get to the last one, then, then we don't get to it because I, I think this is, this is one of those questions that I, I, I want to make sure I'm phrasing this property. I think a lot of people would believe just because of your background that the answer to this question would be nothing. And when I ask the question, you'll see why. What scares you more now than it used to. And I think that there is a large number of people, because of the Persona of the SEAL teams that would say absolutely nothing. Seals aren't scared of anything. There, there's nothing that would. That would do that. But I'm. I'm curious as to what, knowing you, what the answer is to this question, because over time, it's. It's had to have changed.
- [47:53]
A
Yeah, It's the. Not knowing how much time I have with family, loved ones, friends, doing what I do at Echelon Front, this realization that time is going by really fast. And, you know, when I was younger, I was just like, man, I got all the time in the world. I got all the time with my kids. I got all the time with my wife. I got all this time. Next month I'll be 43. And I'm not. I know I'm not old, but it's a reality of, like, man, I've been doing this for almost a decade. So if we were to double the amount of time I've been doing this at Echelon Front. So I've been doing this for a little over, let's say nine and a half years. So in another nine and a half years, probably 53, my daughters will be 23. Like, it's just crazy to me, just this time, how quickly it is going away. I mean, when I'm 53, Aiden would be 29, 28, 29. And that was the time Amanda and I had the girls. You know, Hayden will be 26. I mean, think about what I was doing when I was 25. 26. Think about when I was doing. I was 29. Think about what I was doing when I was 23. I was in Ramadi fighting when I was 23. And in 9 and a half ish years, my daughters will be the same age that I was when I was in the Battle of Ramadi. And I just don't know how much more time I have with them or how much more time I have to train Jiu Jitsu or to do what I do at Echelon Front, or how much more time I have to do this podcast, or how much more time do I have to go on backpacking trips once a year with my friends? And, like, how much more time do I have with my parents and my. My siblings? And so that scares the out of me. And I know you'll have to edit that out, and I'm sorry, but, bro, that literally is what scares me now more than it ever did is just lack of time and understanding that it's so fine, finute and it is fleeting, but it gives me hope because it means that I can be more intentional with my time with my wife, with my kids, and with all These other people in my life and that the things that I might be frustrated with, big picture, Should I be frustrated with them in five years of those things that I'm upset about right now really going to be an issue? Probably not. Are some of the things I'm currently frustrated with right now going to be an issue in six months? Probably not. There's like, one or two that I know are, like, you know, things that our family is navigating through, but the rest of it, I don't know. So it's time. But the other hope that I have is my wife and all my kids are saved. Like, they're. They're going to heaven. I'm going to heaven. You're going to have it. Your family's going to heaven. Almost all my closest friends, they're going to heaven. Like, so I do have hope in knowing that, you know, this time on earth is limited and that what I have in front of me is amazing. What's in front of my kids and my family and my friends is amazing. But, man, I don't want to waste the next nine years. Not that I've wasted it, but when I look back on the last nine years, Man, I've missed a lot. Missed a lot. It was calculated and there was agreeance with my wife and I and our kids. But, man, yeah, there's a lot of things that I'll never get to do over with my kids, and now I just got to be more intentional, build other things to make the most of that time with them and make the most of time with my family, extended family, and my closest friends. And to answer that last question, to me, that's what success would look like.
- [53:11]
B
Yeah, that last question is, what does success look like now? Not. Not 10 years ago.
- [53:15]
A
And same thing.
- [53:17]
B
Yeah, looks. It looks like.
- [53:21]
A
Time freedom. Yeah, time freedom and time freedom and growing the kingdom and providing value to people, man. Like, I want to leave a good legacy. I don't want my legacy to be like, eh. I want it to be like, wow, man, he did a lot. He helped a lot. He loved a lot. He cared a lot. Like, that's what I want and hope that, you know, my kids look at to me that way, that my wife looks to me that way that my friends can say, like, man, you know, J.P. he wasn't perfect. He had a lot of. He had a lot of faults, but he cared about his friends, he cared about his family. You know, he worked hard. He tried to make the best of the opportunities. He tried to make the best of whatever environment he was in, he had a good attitude for the most part. He liked to have fun. He didn't take life too serious. He was generous. You know, those are the things that I hope, you know, when people associate my name, whether I'm alive or dead, like, those are things I hope people would think so. And to me, that's what success would look like.
- [54:39]
B
Yeah. Do you know, when I, when I turned 40 a couple of months ago, one of my, my really good friends and mentors, he and I were talking and one of the things he said is he goes, you know, with, with the average life expectancies, I was like, yep. I'm like, where's this going? He goes, sometime in the next decade, you're, you're likely to reach the halfway point in your life. And what are you going to do with the second half of it? You've got all these things that you've done in your life in, in the first half. Are you going to let the things. Because, you know, so much of that time we spent as kids. Right. But you know, the, Are you going to let the things that you have done in the last 20 years be the pinnacle or are you gonna make the next 40 or 50 or however many you have left the best part of it?
- [55:47]
A
Yeah, the Next, the next 15ish for me are gonna be better than the last 42. That's what I'm talking about for sure.
- [55:59]
B
Yeah, man. So, dude, I love these Q A episodes. I love getting to pick your brain. I love when we have, you know, an episode that's driven by the people who listen to the podcast, the questions that they're asking. And you know, for me it's, it's fun to do the interviews because I get to sit back and, and listen. And you were making fun of me for all the, the pages and notes that I had from Ty. I've got the same amount from, from just with you, but listening to the info that, that you've got and that you, you share, not just from the experiences that you've, you had serving our country, but also as a dad, as a jiu jitsu practitioner, as a leadership instructor at, at Echelon Front. And I just want to encourage anybody who's out there listening to us. You know, there are so many questions that we oftentimes will be afraid to ask, but they're legit things that we're, we're struggling with the problems that, that we're facing. Whether you shoot us a DM, you do you put down a comment on YouTube maybe you go and you're, you're following us on Instagram @jpdanelpodcast. You're following P. Dennell, two Ns, two Ls, you're, you're following me at Lucas Pinkard, like, whatever it is that you are consuming this, if you're on Spotify, same thing, you know, leave us a comment, put that question in there. Shoot us a dm. Because the reason that we do this is to share the experiences that we've had in a way that's meaningful and impactful for others. God's given us an awesome opportunity to, to do that. So, you know, join the conversation, hop in on those things, tell your friends about it. You know, if you've got a buddy that's got a question and you, you know, you feel like it, it could work, or that it's something that other people are struggling with and you're like, hey, you know what? Maybe, maybe the guy's here. Maybe JP can have an answer to this. Shoot us a message. We are more than willing to do that. All of these questions that we've got have come from people who are at leadership workshops, folks who are watching and listening on YouTube, on Spotify, on Apple podcasts, and who are joining the conversation in Instagram and on Facebook. So definitely do that. If you want to get on the path on the next level, then go check out our friends over at first in nutrition. Go to firstinnutrition.com jppod Jonathan and Anne, who have been on the show, were an awesome interview sharing their life story. They are first responders who are now trying to help people win in other areas of their lives. Go check them out. They're offering four free weeks of nutrition coaching for anybody that signs up. So it's first in nutrition.com jppod and then, you know, hop into the ways that you can expand on the leadership lessons that JP was talking about tonight. You want to learn more about COVID move, go to echelonfront.com look at how to implement extreme ownership in the culture of your business. Do one of the courses of extreme ownership online where you're talking about how do you implement extreme ownership in the home? Or hop on what's about to be the live calls on Wednesdays. So they're shifting it from Mondays to Wednesdays. Hop on those Wednesday calls, it's Wednesday, 1pm Central Time, and ask the questions that, that you may be afraid to ask or that you're, you know, really desperate to get the answer to feel like you don't have a satisfactory answer. To it. Hop on those calls on Extreme Ownership Academy. Get those questions answered. Make sure that you're looking at some of the live events that are coming up. There are, or I guess tickets for Muster zero to eight are being sold right now. That is in May in Nashville, Tennessee. So if you have never been to a Muster before, you want to go to what is absolutely, in my estimation, the premier leadership conference in the entire world. I've been to several of them. Nothing is like the Muster. It's absolutely unbelievable. Not just the, the production quality of it, the lessons learned, but also the access to the instructors. If you've got a question, you can go stand in line. Go ask jp. You can go ask, you know, Carlos who's been on the show. Go ask Rob Jones, go ask Jocko or Leif because they're all just standing around. Go ask Dave Burke, author of the need to Lead or, or Jamie Cochran, who just her story right now, if you're not following her on Instagram, is absolutely incredible. Just the, the things that she's been through and, and is using the laws of combat in order to, to overcome is, is super cool. You heard us talk a little bit about Jiu Jitsu. Go check out Jesus in Jiu Jitsu USA.com It's a ministry that JP and I belong to. Go look at it. We've got a bunch of cool free seminars that are coming up this year. Little Cattle Co and On The Path Printing, two companies that we partner with LittleCattle co. It's beef tallow products for skin care for after sun care. Mosquito season is about to kick back up in all of the south. So they've got anti itch cream. Make sure that you go check that stuff out on the Path Printing for all your printing apparel needs. JP was talking about how he and Josh have been doing some cool stuff there. So make sure that you go check that out. Check that out if you have any apparel printing needs for your companies. You know, we got into a little bit a couple of weeks ago and I think that this is something that everybody definitely needs to go check out is what's going on over at Bruiser Arms. So go follow them. At Bruiser Arms, it's custom gear packages and custom training from jp, Leif and Jocko that happens down there, Dripping Springs and then obviously big shout out to the folks who keep us clothed and recovered and that is the guys over at Origin and Jocko Fuel. They have some absolute bad to the bone top secret stuff that is going to be dropped every month all throughout this year to celebrate the 250th birthday of these great United States. So go to originusa.com and check out all the cool stuff in the cool gear that they've got going on there. And then go to jockofuel.com and use code JP Pod20 to save 20% at checkout on absolutely everything you need. And sign up for the text messages from both those so that you get the alerts whenever this stuff to celebrate 250 years of freedom start to drop in later this month and then all throughout the year. And then jp, I'm going to send it over to you for any final thoughts you got for us, man.
- [62:56]
A
Awesome. Yeah. So with the Echelon front event, so you have FTX019, I think it's almost sold out, but there's a few spots left. That's going to be March 8th, 9th and 10th in the Dallas Fort Worth area. And then Mustard 24 is going to be in Nashville in April. And then in July we are going to have muster 25 in San Diego, which is going to be awesome. And then the, you know, immersion camp, it's not sold out yet. It will be getting closed soon, last week of August. And then we have FTX20 that is going to the individual FTX on September 20th, 21st, 22nd, that's actually going to be down in the Austin area. We're going to switch it up a little bit probably. And then October, muster 26 is going to be in Denver, Colorado. Some awesome events. We also have the council that's in June and then we have some new battlefields that they're rolling out that are on the website as well. So, you know, just closing thoughts. 1. Very grateful to have the people that listen the podcast, the questions that we get, the supporters that we get. You know, I just, I, you know, if anything, I hope this episode just was a good reminder for all of us to just step back and look at like, what's going on in your life and just ask yourself, what can you actually control right now? Hey, you have limited time with a loved one who's sick. Make the most of that time. You have unknown time left in life. Make the most of that time. Hey, there's a relationship at work that isn't ideal. Go rebuild that relationship. Take ownership over that relationship. And at the end of the day, like, you have to lead yourselves, like, you have to lead yourself through the good times, through the hard times so that you can lead the people around you. You. And when you do that, you're going to win. So thank you for all the support. Thank you for everyone that listens, and I hope this episode has been a reminder to go do the work that's needed to put in the effort to build your legacy into NE. This has been the JP Denl podcast episode 125.