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- [00:01]
A
Good morning. This is the JPanel podcast, episode 122. I'm JP Donnell, and as always, I have Lucas with me. What's up, buddy?
- [00:07]
B
What's going on, man? It's been a pretty awesome few weeks, and now Texas has been reminded that it's winter. And on, like, we're.
- [00:19]
A
As this comes out.
- [00:20]
B
Yeah, we're supposed to be, like, shut into our homes and huddling in corners with our families, lighting the. Lighting the. The heaters and hoping that we stay warm enough to be able to weather it all.
- [00:31]
A
Yeah. As this comes out, I'm up in Kalispell, Montana, recording an episode with Andy Stone for cleared hot.
- [00:39]
B
Hey, right on, man.
- [00:41]
A
And then.
- [00:41]
B
Hey, Andy. Good to. Good to meet you.
- [00:43]
A
Hope. Hoping to make it my. My way back home. Yeah, we'll see how the weather affects DFW airport, you know, if it gets.
- [00:50]
B
If it gets bad. So we've got no fireplace in our rental. Right. Like, that just wasn't a thought in the 30s to put that into a home here. So we may just come over to your place. You might come home Friday and the Pinkard crew may be there if we end up losing power.
- [01:07]
A
We're good with that.
- [01:08]
B
All right, sweet.
- [01:09]
A
We're good with that.
- [01:09]
B
I'm not gonna be able to bring any dried wood or anything, but I will bring four hungry people.
- [01:14]
A
Sounds great. Sounds good. You know, man, I was fine with that. All right, let's get this.
- [01:21]
B
Yeah, man. You know, bust into. You've got the bomb pop today. Hey, if you gu. Are fans of the show, obviously you know that we partner with Jocko Fuel and the amazing folks over there, JP Is cracking into a bomb pop go. But if you go and you use the code JP Pod20, you actually save 20% on all your Jocko Fuel orders as a thank you for listening, sharing, subscribing to. To the show. So thank you guys a ton and go support the folks over Jocko Fuel. Also, while they're still around, go check out the origin flannels.
- [01:55]
A
Yeah.
- [01:56]
B
Because they're. They're going away quick. And they got two colors this year. They got the red and the green. The green looks so good.
- [02:03]
A
Yeah, dude, I didn't realize the. The gtfo. The.
- [02:08]
B
Yeah. Get the family out.
- [02:10]
A
Get the family outside pant.
- [02:11]
B
Yes.
- [02:12]
A
Which is awesome. I, myself, Mikey and Chris and Tyron like, used them on a backpacking trip.
- [02:19]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
- [02:21]
A
Previously, I think it was like the Nylock pant and then the Nylock Pant is part of the hotline. And then this is Slightly different than the Nyloc pant. It's a better version and more durable.
- [02:33]
B
Not as like all of that. Right. Or is this like replacing Nylock?
- [02:37]
A
Well, the Nylock is still what they use for the hunt line.
- [02:40]
B
Yeah.
- [02:40]
A
Just a different. Anyways, it's just like an improvement. Right? Like 2.0. It's like the 2.0. And they have like a light gray version of that pant. Oh, I didn't realize that.
- [02:53]
B
Nice.
- [02:53]
A
On their Origins website last night. And I was like, oh, ordering those for my new Echelon front pant.
- [03:00]
B
Yeah.
- [03:00]
A
Which is gonna be awesome. And then they also have the light gray. And then they have a dark gray in the Moab, which. Yeah, I'm wearing the Moab right now.
- [03:09]
B
Yeah.
- [03:09]
A
I was like, between those.
- [03:10]
B
The mother of all britches.
- [03:11]
A
Yes. Between those two, like that will be 100. My echelon front. Get up.
- [03:16]
B
Yeah. From here on out. That's pretty rad.
- [03:19]
A
Well, this new fruity cereal.
- [03:21]
B
Yeah. Try that for me.
- [03:23]
A
I've heard it's absolutely incredible.
- [03:24]
B
Well, I need you. I need you to give it a shot. It smells like fruity pebble milk. Which. Anyone who's a cereal eater knows that that is one of the most superior milks.
- [03:36]
A
The best.
- [03:36]
B
Yeah. Fruity pebble milk is really good. The. The Count Chocula milk also. Yeah. A top five. Yep. Go ahead, give us an. An on air sampling of this. I appreciate that you're not gurgling it into the microphone. Danny Zane will really enjoy that. Who we need to have back on. Danny's gotta. Gotta finish his story. This is impressive. The straight chug of the. I don't even think you took a breath.
- [04:04]
A
I did not. And that was amazing.
- [04:06]
B
Yeah. No doubt about it.
- [04:07]
A
That's unreal. And that's 30 grams of protein just in the system.
- [04:11]
B
That's perfect.
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A
Only way that would have been better if I would have had 10 grams of creatine mixed in there with it.
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B
Yeah.
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A
But man, that is.
- [04:18]
B
Which is on special right now on jockofuel.com.
- [04:23]
A
That is unreal.
- [04:24]
B
They got the tubs back in stock, which is good. I love the convenience of the creatine stick.
- [04:29]
A
Yeah.
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B
But I'm a. I'm a tub guy.
- [04:31]
A
Scooper.
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B
Yeah. I just. It's. I've done it for 30 years.
- [04:35]
A
Yeah.
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B
So it. It doesn't make any sense for me now to go to the packets. Except for the convenience of like keeping it in the bag.
- [04:42]
A
Traveling.
- [04:43]
B
Yeah.
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A
You have them in your backpack. Your briefcase.
- [04:45]
B
You know who loves it is. Is Kirsten. Because she doesn't like doing the scoop. She's got to do all that for the. For the kids stuff. And she doesn't like to do it with her stuff. Yeah. So I just put the creatine packet and the hydrate packet. Yeah, there you go. And then I'll fill a little shaker of water for her so that she. When she gets up, it's all right there.
- [05:02]
A
Yeah. You know, Aiden's in the fire. That is unreal, bro. That's good. That fruity cereal milk is absolutely unreal.
- [05:13]
B
Yeah. Aiden started fire academy.
- [05:15]
A
He's in the fire academy. And that was one of the things is got him creatine to keep in his bag. So that way when he's in the academy, I was like, hey, man, if you're feeling sleepy or tired or just not focused, get 10 to 15 grams of creatine. Boom, right away. And that is going to be.
- [05:35]
B
It's a game changer.
- [05:36]
A
It's going to help you. It's going to be a game changer. And he's been on the creatine consistently the last week or two, bro. That boy reacts well to creatine.
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B
Does he really? And, you know, he's young.
- [05:46]
A
Yeah, he's young. But it's also one of those things. It's. This is not rocket science. If we eat healthy and put protein as a primary macro and we take a few other supplements that we should be taking, your body's going to react well. And Amanda's been helping teach him how to, like, cook and meal prep at a higher level. Like, he already knew how to do some stuff. Our kids already do that. But it's like, hey, bud, in March you're going to be 20, you're in the fire academy. You're probably going to be moving out soon. Like, you're going to be on your own soon. Which is, like, heartbreaking to say out loud, but it's also like, no, that's. It's good.
- [06:24]
B
Yeah.
- [06:25]
A
Close to what you're doing now. There's a few different thoughts on that. There's, like, some things out there that, like, one of the biggest propaganda lies out there was move out, go on your own instead of keeping family together. And, you know, so I see both sides to it.
- [06:39]
B
Right. Because it's hard when him 30 and living at. Living in the bedroom that he was in as a teenager.
- [06:45]
A
No.
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B
But at the same time, like, kicking him out when he's 18 and completely ill equipped to take care of everything.
- [06:52]
A
Yeah.
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B
Just means you're more often than not you're just setting your kids up.
- [06:57]
A
Yeah. There's some people that are like, hey, your kids should be out by 21, 22, 25 at the latest. You know, if they're establishing a career, if they're not married yet, like, hey.
- [07:05]
B
Like, let their prefrontal cortex finished developing.
- [07:09]
A
Yeah, I think that's kind of fun. I go back and forth, you know, like. And the reason why I go back and forth is because when I was 18, graduated high school, I was going to the military and I left.
- [07:17]
B
Yeah.
- [07:17]
A
And I'm like, everybody should do that. And then I'm like, well, no, actually, everybody shouldn't. But I also.
- [07:22]
B
There's so much structure in the military.
- [07:25]
A
Exactly. But I also. The other side, I'm like, if you're gonna have your kids stay with you until they're old enough to, like, get out, and, like, they're married. Okay, cool. If you're able to do that, awesome. However, you're also screwing your kids over if you're not requiring them to do things. Like, if you're still cooking all their meals and doing their laundry, letting them.
- [07:47]
B
Play video games all day long and footing the bill for them at 20.
- [07:50]
A
And 20, or even if they're not playing video games, but if they're still, like, living with you and they're not paying any bills, or if you're not, like, you should charge them for some stuff, and if you're feeling bad about it, okay, cool. Set that money aside every month, and then when they move out, give it to them as a wedding gift or a gift or something. But when you're not teaching your kids about financial responsibility and all these things, but letting them stay at home with you, like, that's the problem. So it's like, where do you find the middle ground? And, you know, and that's what we're navigating with Aiden. You know, there's no. There's no book on this. There's no, like, as, you know, people say, there's not a manual on raising kids. Like, you have to do what is best for you and your family and your kids. And it's really cool to see Aiden evolving. And, you know, he has a purpose, he has a passion, and, you know, him become a firefighter. It's. It's really cool to see him doing these things on his own. Doing, you know. You know, he is doing all the things on his own, like, as if he was living out on his own. You know, he's doing his laundry and, you know, he's prepping his Meals and he's, you know, going and shopping and doing. He's literally doing almost all the things as if he was living on his own but living with us while he's in the fire academy. But, bro, where I was going with that, that boy on the creatine every day. And then now having. Being protein heavy on his macros.
- [09:12]
B
Putting on some size.
- [09:13]
A
Yeah, like some good lean muscle mass that I'm just like, bro, if. And now that he's also lifting and working out consistently, it's. He's gonna be a problem very soon. He's gonna be a problem very soon. I was rolling with them the other night and I could feel how much stronger he was and I was like, oh, okay. He's super technical with his jiu jitsu. He has a very high jiu Jitsu IQ and his strength. It's. I was like, okay, this is going to be a problem very soon. I don't, I don't know when my day is coming, but my day is coming soon. And it didn't help that I've been out for the last 12 weeks, so that definitely did not help.
- [09:57]
B
That's awesome.
- [09:57]
A
But yeah, being back to Jiu jitsu is awesome. Lightly working out and lifting is felt good. You know, a lot of people like, why didn't you do anything? I'm like, because my doctor told me nothing. If you want to recover a hundred percent, you can't do anything. Because if you go for a jog, you're using your bicep.
- [10:18]
B
Yeah.
- [10:18]
A
You know, if you're doing box step ups or burp, you know, obviously burpees, but like, box step ups and all those things, you're going to use your bicep and, you know, some people want to push back and try to argue with me on that. I'm like, okay, that's fine. But I'm also at the point now where my doctor's like, hey, you are months ahead. Because, one, I adhered to my physical therapy regimen and was smart with it and pushed it to, like, what I knew I could. But also, you know, we were talking with Nick and Johnny last week. The power of peptides and trt.
- [10:51]
B
Yeah, it's crazy, man.
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A
It's unreal. Like, the only reason why somebody would not be on peptides and or TRT is one, because their levels aren't low and they don't need testosterone. But I think the biggest reason is lack of education. It's lack of education, ego, like, oh, I don't need that stuff. Yeah, actually you do.
- [11:12]
B
100%.
- [11:12]
A
You actually do.
- [11:14]
B
Yeah.
- [11:15]
A
So I really enjoyed that episode with them, actually. I had a buddy Chase from the Double Five. Him and his wife Jelica train. They're awesome humans. Like, just a great couple. Love the Lord. And he was talking to me last night. He's like, brad finished that episode with Nick and Johnny. And dude, it was so good. He's like, I finished it. Like, I think he said like yesterday or the day before. This was last night. We're in Jiu Jitsu on Tuesday. And he had gone to the Tuesday morning Jiu Jitsu class at Double Five that Nick and Johnny go to and they train at. And then afterwards they do a Bible study at Relive Health. So a lot of the guys from the gym go over there and he's like, bro, I'm switching over to them. He's like, I'm getting my blood work at my other place. I'm just going to bring it over to them. And he's like, I'm switching all my stuff over to those guys.
- [12:05]
B
That's awesome.
- [12:05]
A
And I was like, heck yeah, let's go.
- [12:06]
B
Yeah, we had a good conversation afterward too about kind of where I'm at and being 40, I get a good baseline for like what the future looks like and trying to figure some things out. And that's awesome. We're stoked to not just to have had them on, but also to sit down with them and their doc here, hopefully in a couple of weeks and just kind of be able to download a little bit more info on all that stuff and especially seeing your success, knowing my folks are now going to be heading over to Relive to try to help them with some stuff. It's super cool. I've had a bunch of folks, I want to highlight some things from some of our listeners before we move on to our topic for today. We've had a ton of people that have been part of our community on YouTube and on Instagram that have been inspired by you and by Jocko, listening to Yalls stories and all that. They've written some books and you've got a couple of copies of some of the works of some of our listeners, which are really cool that have been sent to us over the course of the last few weeks, which I'm super stoked about. So I want to highlight these now. In all honesty, we haven't gotten to get all the way through them yet. The first one, Addiction, Chaos and Discipline by Oscar Norlander. If you are on our YouTube page, you'll see that there's actually so happy. He's a frequent commenter on our YouTube page. Been a listener of ours from day one. Has become a buddy. Anyway, so this is his book that has just been released. Talking a little bit about how to avoid addiction and what his story was like. I got an advanced copy of it in one of the first drafts he sent to me, and I've read quite a bit of it. It's really cool. Very inspiring story. And then also another book called War Junkie by KG Spradley, who sent it to us. I got one of the first chapters and started kind of doing some of the audiobook for it and doing some things to try to figure out what he wanted in that. Which was a lot of fun. But his book War Junkie is out now. He sent us a hardcover version of it. He actually served in Ramadi. And the opening story of his book is just. Is super cool. So just shout out to those guys for people who are out there, you know, making it happen, sharing their stories, putting in the. The amount of effort it takes to sit down every day and to write, you know, 100 words or a thousand words or whatever to get something out there. The vulnerability that it takes, all that stuff is just super rad. And so proud of these guys. And thank you guys for sharing that stuff with us because it's. It's just absolutely awesome. I see you skimming Oscar's book right now.
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A
Yeah, I really like the introduction on Oscar's book. Addiction, Chaos, Discipline, how to stay free from addiction.
- [15:14]
B
And, dude, addiction is. It comes in so many different forms. It's so sneaky, man. So, yeah, what a timely piece.
- [15:20]
A
I mean, one of. I mean, it's the works of the devil. Addiction, you know, 100 and so in his intro, he says, this is a book about preventing addiction. You will learn what it is like to live with an addict. If you have. If you already live with one, you may recognize your own life here. You will also learn about addiction and how to avoid it. Throughout these pages, you will find the strength to focus on the future while making the best of your current situation. So. Right. You know, that's just an incredible bluff. Right. Bottom line, up front, like that first paragraph. I'm like, so well thought out.
- [16:01]
B
Bluff. A term which we learned from. Which I learned from Sarah and the rest of the n. We put it in our dictionary.
- [16:06]
A
Yeah, we're getting a lot of really good feedback on her episode, which will.
- [16:10]
B
Be coming out in 2027. The NCC Dictionary, dude.
- [16:15]
A
Steve Ward, Master chief. Yeah, he. He listened to Sarah's episode.
- [16:18]
B
Oh, did he really?
- [16:19]
A
Bro?
- [16:21]
B
When are we going to chat with.
- [16:22]
A
With Master Chief Ward and Master Chief Gardner? I know.
- [16:25]
B
Yeah, they'd be fun to have on.
- [16:27]
A
That'd be cool to have both of them on. Yeah.
- [16:29]
B
I want to talk to Jason Gardner about plants. Like if. I think if we did that we would. If we just asked him. So what about plants?
- [16:36]
A
Can we talk about plans?
- [16:37]
B
We would just be done. We wouldn't have to say another word for the rest of it.
- [16:40]
A
That would be very educational. So, second paragraph. My two children begin asking questions about their grandfather. My answer to them is this book so they can discover more about their grandfather and maybe find the strength to get through difficult times in their lives. I have also written this book to all other people who might have high addiction risk traits or a parent with addiction problems. I read somewhere that it can be helpful to process bad experiences in life by reading or listening to stories from people who have been in similar situations. I remember a few occasions when people shared their stories when I was a child and young adult and hearing them made me feel better. I hope this book can someone. I'm sorry. I hope this book can help someone feel that they are not alone in this situation and that they can find ways to stay out of addiction. That is so spot on. Sharing stories is what people connect with and they remember. People remember stories. They don't remember you reading off facts or stats from like a PowerPoint presentation.
- [17:45]
B
Or they're interesting in the moment, but it doesn't stick.
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A
But if you can weave them into a story, then people are going to, you know, relate to that. It's about getting people to relate.
- [17:55]
B
Yeah. That's why guys like Malcolm Gladwell are so successful is because they do that exact thing. Like the statistics that people were remember from a Gladwell book has nothing to do with how impactful that stat was. It has to do with the story that surrounded how he told it.
- [18:10]
A
Yeah, Spot on.
- [18:11]
B
Yeah, it's very cool.
- [18:13]
A
Next paragraph. I have split this book into three parts. This is the first part, the introduction. The second part is the story of my life as a son of an alcoholic. The third part of this book contains my thoughts on how to stay away from addictions. That's awesome. I am only one out of millions that have had a parent that have a parent with an addiction. My story is not special, but it is recognizable. A lot of the strategies to avoid addiction that you will read about in this book are things I have deduced from my experiences with my dad. I want to tell the story about our family so you understand where the strategies originated and where. Why these strategies have been important to me. My father's biological father was addicted to alcohol. My father was addicted to alcohol. Those are generational curses, man, that just keep getting passed on. And I have a high addiction. I have high addiction risk traits, but I am not addicted to alcohol or any other drugs. This book covers a time period from when I was born until my father's passing. A lot happened during that period. Sorry. A lot happened during this time span. I forced myself to write down things closely related to my father's alcohol problem and my ways of trying to avoid creating my own addictions. I must admit that writing this book has been therapeutic. I can only imagine, like, just being able to talk about stuff, get it out there. Because when you're typing and writing, you're processing, you're thinking, you're evaluating, and I don't know about you, but when I write and I type, I. I also sometimes read it out loud. So being able to read it out loud also helps. My dad taught me that years ago. He's like, you know, when you're reading the Bible or other stuff, if you, if you read it out loud, your brain is processing it at a higher level because you're reading it, you're speaking it, and then you hear yourself say it, and you're connecting those words that you hear to what you see. And it's just. It's really good.
- [20:16]
B
You ever written something, whether you're journaling or writing for a keynote or something, and you, you kind of have this moment where you, you need to reprocess.
- [20:27]
A
What you wrote every day.
- [20:29]
B
Like, it's. It's one of the strangest things is like, as you're doing those things. This is why I think journaling in particular is such an impactful thing on, you know, our, our self awareness is. Because there will be times when I write something in the journal and I stop and I'm like, I. I don't know that I realized that I actually looked at things from this perspective or that I actually felt this way or this strongly about something. But when you're writing, whether it is, you know, typing it on a computer, handwriting, or whatever it is that you are, you're tapping in, like, what you're talking about, you're tapping into a different center of your brain, you're processing things differently than when you're just like analyzing it, thinking about it, driving in the car, and you'll be. I think people will be surprised at how often they write something like, oh, man, I don't. I don't know that I. I actually knew that about myself. And it just kind of naturally flows out, and then again, reading it out loud, you're like, holy smokes. Yeah, yeah. Now. Now, how do I deal with this thing?
- [21:28]
A
Yeah.
- [21:29]
B
That's wild.
- [21:30]
A
I must admit that writing this book has been therapeutic. I have been forced to set words to events and feelings and ask my family and friends questions. Through the creation of this book, I have learned about my dad and myself. I found out about my dad's drinking quite early in life. When I was a child, my dad's alcoholism was a tragedy. Was a tragedy, tragedy, tragedy for me. I wanted.
- [21:57]
B
Easy for you to say.
- [22:01]
A
I wanted a normal dad who was interested in my life and my future instead of getting drunk every evening. I couldn't. I can't imagine that, man. You know, because I never saw. That was my parents. Did my parents drink? Yeah, occasionally, but they never, like, you know, my parents were big on breaking that because, you know, my dad's dad was a big drinker. My mom's dad was a big drinker. You know, both World War II veterans.
- [22:27]
B
Right.
- [22:28]
A
My mom's dad also Korean War and Vietnam War. And, you know, he's an officer and, you know, did a lot and was a part a lot. You know, the Bomber Mafia book that you and I both read, that we want to review with my Uncle Eric. My grandfather was a part of those missions, man. And, you know, my grandfather was on a destroyer in World War II and just saw some horrific things. And, you know, it doesn't make it right, but you could see, you know, and then he gets out and goes into construction world. And at that time frame, it's. That's just what you did is you drink, you know, but, you know, I never saw that with my parents. Would I see them drink? Yeah.
- [23:01]
B
Yeah.
- [23:02]
A
But I, like, this was not a life I had to live.
- [23:04]
B
Yep.
- [23:05]
A
I never had to experience it because they didn't want to pass it along, which I'm very thankful that my parents did that. You know, it's just, you know, reading it out loud, you're just like, man, that's. That's horrible. However, as I became older, I realized that just despite numerous hard times, I learned many lessons from my dad's life. His addictions, faults, and mistakes taught me lessons about how not to live my life. For that, I thank him. If you think my dad was the only one making mistakes, you are wrong. I have made plenty of them, and I Am still making new ones. Like my dad, I am human. I believe my own mistakes have taught me lessons as valuable as my father's. One of the most important lessons is never blaming others for my stupid decisions and behavior. A little, little extreme ownership.
- [23:52]
B
That's what I'm talking about.
- [23:53]
A
I like it. Why did my dad end up being an addict While I did not? The simple answer is that I found self discipline, self reflection and goals. These three things are a reoccurring theme in this story. Early in life, I made a promise to myself that I would not end up being an alcoholic. I made it a goal. I think I found my way to self reflection quite early in life. I was not good at it at first, but it resulted in me switching from doing dumb things to doing better things. I like what he said. I made it a goal. Yeah, because if you don't make things an actual goal, it's just like a. A hope, a dream, a wish I want, you know. But if you make things a goal, if you put a time stamp on it and a time frame and you put a plan, like, you are more likely to succeed in those things if it is something that like, hey, I am going to do this or I will. It is my goal to never do this. That becomes an actual thing. You can't just be like, oh, well, one day I want to, One day I want to. There's a lot of things I want to do in life. There's a lot of things I've wanted to do in life that I never did and I probably never will because I haven't made them a serious type of thing. And I like how the humility of. I was not good at it at first, but it resulted in me switching from doing dumb things to better things. Just the ability to have that humility and also, like, share like, hey, I was not good at it at first. None of us are going to be good at something new from the get go. I haven't met anybody that's just like, right away they do something and they're awesome at it.
- [25:31]
B
No, there are people who have more of like a natural aptitude, but there's still nothing compared to the people who have, like, really done it. They're standouts among other rookies.
- [25:42]
A
Yeah. So when I first started shooting archery on my bow, my very first two shots were dead center, bullseye touching each other. The very first two arrows. Yeah, Emma and like the place I was shooting at the instructor because I was like, I brought in my whole setup and everything. I was like, I Don't. I've never shot a bow before. And she's like, okay. So she's walking me through it, and, you know, I had my grip wrong the very first one, so it just rips down my forearm, and I don't have small forearms, so, I mean, it ripped. Like, it didn't just touch it. It's like. And I was like, okay, well, shooting a bow sucks. This is horrible.
- [26:19]
B
You know, just terribly uncomfortable. Yeah.
- [26:22]
A
Yeah. And then she was like, hey, fix it. So I fixed it. And even, like, after that, I was like, oh, my gosh, man.
- [26:27]
B
Yeah.
- [26:29]
A
And people were like, bro, you're just naturally good at shooting a bow. I'm like, no, I'm not. I know how to shoot.
- [26:35]
B
Yeah.
- [26:36]
A
I've been taught hundreds of hours, like. Like hundreds, if not millions of reps of pulling a trigger.
- [26:43]
B
Yep.
- [26:43]
A
I would say millions. Between rifle pistol, like, AR platform pistols, and long range, easily, like, absolutely easy. That's. That's a statement I would stand on. And. I'm sorry, stand by. And so the fundamentals of, you know, pulling. I didn't know how to pull a bow. And, like, the first time, you know, I. You know, I had to be, you know, helped with it and, you know, taught how to do it. But then in regards to side alignment and releasing a trigger. Come on, man. I've literally done that over a million times.
- [27:15]
B
Yep.
- [27:16]
A
So that wasn't hard for me. But that wasn't always the case.
- [27:20]
B
Right.
- [27:20]
A
Like, I had to be taught how to maintain sight alignment and a smooth release of a trigger and all of those things.
- [27:29]
B
Yeah.
- [27:30]
A
But I really. Like I said, I was not good at it at first.
- [27:32]
B
Yeah.
- [27:32]
A
That's what a lot of people, they use. That fear of, like, not being good at something to not do something. It's like, hey, you're addicted to alcohol, drugs, painkillers, watching videos that you shouldn't be watching as an adult. You know, all those things. Take the first step of being like, nope, I'm not doing it. My goal is to reduce the number of drinks. You know what I mean? Or it might be the extreme, like, you know, where my brother, who I love, and I'm not dishonoring him at all. Like. Like, I actually respect my brother for the. Like, at an even higher level, when he was like, hey, I need help.
- [28:08]
B
Yeah.
- [28:08]
A
And he's like, hey, I need help. I need to get in rehab for alcohol. I don't want to do this. And I'm like, all right, cool.
- [28:14]
B
Yeah.
- [28:14]
A
And we got him into it, and he did it. You Know, like, I have so much respect for that. Versus, like, oh, I'm good. I can quit on my own. No, you can't, because you still haven't.
- [28:25]
B
Right.
- [28:25]
A
You know, the people say they could, or I can, like they haven't done it, which I'm not saying anything bad on those people. But it's like, hey, be honest with yourself. Just stop lying to yourself. This one is rooted in the truth that we tell ourselves.
- [28:40]
B
Right.
- [28:41]
A
And because you keep lying to yourself, that's why you lack the discipline to go do it. And the discipline might be, hey, I need help. I'm addicted to. Fill in the blank, yeah, I need help. Addiction is. That's a. That's the hand of the devil right there. And that has its grasp around your throat and you're letting it hold on to you. You're not trying to break that grip away. You're not trying to remove it. You're just like, okay, I've actually gotten comfortable with the hand around my throat. I'm fine. It's not a big deal.
- [29:09]
B
I could get out of it if I really needed to.
- [29:11]
A
But you don't understand that. It's just slowly, slowly, slowly getting tighter and tighter and tighter to the point where it's like, man, you, you. You're gonna get to the point where you actually can't break that grip.
- [29:21]
B
Yeah. And, you know, one of the things, I think that from what Oscar's written and what you're talking about is so interesting to me is that, you know, the. The very first step that people go through, if they were, you know, to go through a 12 step program or to. To look at one of those things, whether it's through AA or NA or celebrate recovery or any of those, is breaking denial. Because that denial is the number one thing that keeps you in that hold. And whether that hold is addiction, whether that hold is depression, whether that hold is a bad relationship, it's this idea that one, I could get out whatever time I wanted or it's never going to get better than this or whatever. And those like you're talking about, the. The lies that we tell ourselves are the things that prevent us from doing that. Because we have convinced ourselves that something that isn't true is true. And now we're living it out as though that's the guiding truth of our lives. Yeah. It's such a dangerous thing.
- [30:18]
A
I mean, what's crazy is we're literally on the third page of the intro and there's so, so good, so many things of this. Okay, again, I was not good at it at first, but it resulted in me switching from doing dumb things to doing better things. I love that.
- [30:34]
B
So good.
- [30:35]
A
Oscar, you're speaking to me, man.
- [30:37]
B
Yeah.
- [30:37]
A
Story of my life. I could recognize and admit to myself I like that. I could recognize and admit to myself that I was doing things wrong. Something my father always struggled with. The last thing is that I eventually found self discipline. My father had poor self discipline. I am not saying that an alcoholic is guaranteed to stop drinking or that you will never become an addict to something because of high self discipline. I really like that he put that in there because it is a good tool to have. One point of this book is that there is a risk of inheriting a person's high addiction risk traits. But self discipline is something anyone can learn and impose upon themselves. I think that you will notice from my story that self discipline has been a crucial part of my life. You know, I think about my parents when we read that of like. Like the discipline they imposed in their life when it came to health and fitness when we were growing up was just unreal. And then it translated over to us. I mean, I mean how. Just how evident was that in my sister's episode? Yeah, I mean it was just such a strong foundation that of like our faith, you know, of being, you know, as being Christians and being saved and having a relationship with God. Having a relationship with God and being in church and doing all those things. But you know, also the discipline of working out and eating healthy and meal prep and always staying active and all those things. Like I remember my dad would wake up at like 4 something in the morning so that him and his buddies could go work out before going and doing a 12 to 15 hour day of construction. That's insane because he also knew at the end of the day he wasn't going to go do it because one, it was family time and two, he wasn't going to have the energy to go get a good workout in. And he said he always felt better by doing that. I'm going to read that last line again. I think that you will notice from my story that self discipline has been a crucial part of my life. The last part of this book contains my strategies for staying away from addictions. The idea is that the second part gives the third part impact. My advice and thoughts on addiction are the results, I'm sorry are the result of events I have lived through, but also put a lot of thought into. This part of the book will dive into topics like the luxury of motivation and the need for Self discipline, self reflection, and goals. My goal is for this book to provide an easy read for all ages that will encourage readers to stay free from addiction or inspire them to encourage others to do the same. It is my sincere desire that this book will serve as a vehicle for discussion or as a model for you to navigate issues associated with addiction. Finding your own path, embracing discipline, self reflection, and finding goals.
- [33:43]
B
Man, I. Super cool.
- [33:45]
A
That's awesome.
- [33:46]
B
Yeah. And, you know, the. There was an. An interview that Matt Damon did. I think it might have been on Joe Rogan, where he's talking about the Smashing Machine. Have you seen that? It's. It's the Rock as Mark Kerr. Oh, it was in theaters for a little bit. I've not seen it yet, but it's. It's on my list. But it's one of those that, like, I don't know. I don't know how much interest Kirsten has in it because there was a long period of time where her parents struggled with addiction, with alcohol in particular. It wasn't like, to this extent, but Matt Damon was talking about. There's a scene where the Rock is in a hospital bed and he's having to come, like, face to face with the. The fact that, like, his alcoholism or Mark Kerr, like, character he's playing Mark, her alcoholism is. Is killing him. It's ruining every relationship that he has. And he. He does two things that are really interesting. And Damon asked him about him. He's like, you know, was this direction or whatever, and the Rock was telling him. He was like, no, it's. It's not. He goes, my. My dad was an alcoholic. And I remember when people had conversations like this with my dad, that my dad tried to skirt the issue and make jokes about it and blame everything around him and justify his behavior. And so in this conversation, he's kind of going off script, but he's, like, talking around the issue, but it feels very natural. And then the doctor gives him this diagnosis, and he covers up his face with the hospital sheet. And he was like, all right, so where did that come from? And he goes, well, actually, so I was with my mom when she was diagnosed with cancer, and that was her response, was to just cover up her face with her. Her sheet. And it's this scene. And I've heard several people talk about it because they're the ones, you know, this is the scene that everybody's kind of, like, honing in on, and they're like, this is what's gonna put him in, you know, talked for Best Actor like, this is his Oscar worthy role kind of a thing. And to hear that what he's actually tapping into is that he was the child of an addict. And so he knows how an addict's gonna react in this situation. And he ends up going off script in a way that's really authentic because he was mimicking the behaviors that he saw that he, he didn't want to repeat, but that he knew what somebody was gonna do in this situation. And, you know, to look at somebody like that, that's not what you would have thought that they came from. Hearing Oscar stories is the same thing. And, you know, I think about people in our community that have had to deal with that. You know, one of the things in North Texas, while there hasn't been the massive spread of like opiate addictions that we're seeing kind of nationwide or like, as a, as a country, even though, like this. I'll tap into it in just a second then. The illegal narcotics in North Texas has been massive, especially with methamphetamines. And in the area that we're in, where we're on this major highway, we're on i35, it's a massive corridor for that. And so there was a period in time where we had, 15 years ago, a lot of students that we were working with that were children of addicts. And now 15 years later, that group is. They've become adults. Seeing, like, how they're adjusting, what their lives look like, how they're doing things because they were plugged into church and they found people to mentor them and other role models and stuff to look up to, has just been really inspiring. But now also seeing this next group of students that they're not dealing with that because, you know, their parents saw it in their. Either their parents or their aunts and uncles or their grandparents or whatever, they saw those things and they were like, I'm not doing this. And that they've taken that stand and moved away from it has been really cool. You know, we've mentioned him a couple of times on the show already. Malcolm Gladwell, right, Bomber, Mafia. And we were talking about the way that he does statistics. I just a few pages from the end of his most recent book, Revenge of the Tipping Point, which is a look at kind of the mirror of his first really successful book. So the Tipping Point was. Was kind of based on like, positive things. How do we create positive change in our communities and things like that. Revenge of the Tipping Point is looking at how all of those same principles can be applied in order to cause negative effects on. On communities and cultures and societies and those kinds of things. Yeah, it's really fascinating is. And he talks about it in the intro that as he's gotten older, he's had to really work hard not to take a more cynical view of what at the time was a really positive book. Where now he's recognizing all of those things are being used for the negative and wondering like, did I have a hand in causing some of this as people are using some of these things? Because he lays that out. Because there, there are several things in his books that people have cited. You know, Outliers is probably his most popular. Where people are changing the schools that their kids are going to. They're changing the ways and the programs that their kids are put in because they want them to reach this sort of like golden 10,000 hours thing that he puts in there. And they want him to have the, the best opportunities and, and all these kinds of things. And they're. There are people who come up to them and they're like, oh, we changed. We moved to another area and changed schools because we wanted our kid to be able to do X. Because you suggested it in your book and the statistics you were showing your book. And he's like, I'm not trying to do this. Like, this is not the impact I thought it was going to have where people are like, re. Rearranging portions of their lives. They're. They're not starting their kids in school, you know, early. They're waiting and starting them in school a year later so that they can be a little bigger for all the sports teams. Because it shows in the book that that's like a legit thing. It's.
- [39:50]
A
I can see both sides. I also don't see that as being like a horrible thing.
- [39:53]
B
No, for sure.
- [39:54]
A
Because you're trying to give your kids better opportunities, better environment.
- [39:58]
B
I mean, it's just one of those unintended things.
- [40:01]
A
Oh, yeah, for sure. I mean, that's why when we moved to Texas, we looked at houses in different areas based off the school districts.
- [40:09]
B
100%.
- [40:10]
A
That's a very common thing. Yeah, that's why people will. If they live in a good school district and they're buying another home, if they have the ability to keep their current home and rent it out, they know that people will pay to rent a home in a good school district and their renting it for more than.
- [40:30]
B
Their mortgage, they charge massive premiums for that. Yeah, you know, there's. I forget where it was. A friend of mine was Telling me that there's a place in Mississippi right now that's got one of the best school districts in Mississippi. And you can get the homes for super cheap, but you can rent them out for, like, three times what your mortgage is, because people that are moving to that area are wanting to be in a place where there's a good school district before they, you know, pull the trigger and buy a homer or whatever else. So the main thread in Revenge of the Tipping Point that he's talking about is the opiate addiction in the United States. And obviously, he tells all of these different stories to kind of paint the full picture of why in the early 2000s and then the early 2000, teens, why this was such a massive thing. And it's interesting to me to see how. How subtle all of those things are, but it's based off of the stories that we tell ourselves. None of the doctors who were prescribing these, like, incredibly addictive things. Right. None of them thought they were doing anything wrong. Right. I say none of them. Like, for the most part, they're not.
- [41:53]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [41:54]
B
They were doing. They were trying their best to try and help the people that, you know, try and help their patients. And these unintended consequences have popped up. And then the next thing that came about from, you know, OxyContin is the. Is the thing that he really focuses in. On in this book. And then, you know, as he's wrapping up, he's like, you know, the. The next thing that people have to look at is fentanyl, which has now become a major issue. But it didn't come from this sinister place. It came from this place of, we're trying to help. Here's something that will help you. And it's had all of these massive unintended consequences that have come from it. And I think in particular, when it comes to things like addiction is they're so sneaky because often they're the things that we run to for relief, for catharsis, you know, to help us sleep. Right. Like, whatever. Whatever that looks like is that it fills this other need that we have.
- [43:01]
A
Yeah.
- [43:01]
B
And we get to the place where we end up. You know, obviously, the body needs more as it reacts to things and whatever that before we know it and before the people around us realize it, it's become a problem. But that same thing applies to, like, so many other little things in our lives. And we. We can justify all these other little things because we're like, well, at least I'm not X. And it's where that comparison comes in instead of the. This self reflection like what Oscar's talking about. That's so powerful.
- [43:37]
A
Yeah. It's funny as you're saying all those things, I was kind of smiling over here. Not kind of. I was smiling over here because I think about, like, Zequil, how it says not. It's not habit forming. I'm like, bull crap, 100% it's habit forming because you know why? It helps you sleep. And you. You're out. You get good sleep and you're out cold on it. Yeah. So you can't tell me it's not habit forming because once, you know, you take Zequil, like when I take Zequil when I really need to, or, you know, I'm gonna take it tonight when I get up and, you know, off my plane.
- [44:11]
B
Right.
- [44:11]
A
And I get to my hotel because I need to get to bed early so I can wake up early and get prepared and everything. And I just have not been sleeping recently. You know, I go through these little stages where it's just like, literally tossing and turning every 45 minutes. I'm looking at my watch and then. And once I do finally fall asleep, it's like, okay, I need to be up soon, which sucks. So tonight I know I'm 100% going to take Zequil. It's weird. All the other sleep aids that I've tried do not work. It actually has the opposite effect on you.
- [44:42]
B
You get wired.
- [44:43]
A
Yep, yep. Yeah. I was going down a rabbit hole last night, like, looking up all the reasons why and how to combat it and all these things, but I know ZQUIL is going to work. It works 100% of the time for me. And I just laugh how I was like, it's not habit forming. I'm like, no, it absolutely is. And if I.
- [45:00]
B
For a certain group of people, it 100% has the potential to be.
- [45:05]
A
Well, I think it's habit forming. It can be habit forming for everybody because you take it, you get a good night's sleep, you wake up rested, you know what I want tomorrow night?
- [45:15]
B
Same thing.
- [45:16]
A
The same thing. You know what I want the next night? The same thing. But I recognize, like, I can't go down that path because then I'm going to be taking zeal every single night to sleep, and then that's just not.
- [45:27]
B
Yeah, now you're dependent upon it.
- [45:28]
A
Yeah, absolutely. So it's just funny. Like, I'm just like, you can't. It was not. Not happen for me. Yeah, actually, it is.
- [45:35]
B
Yeah. Yeah. There may not be an addictive substance in there where people can like point to it and be like, oh, this is absolutely it. But anything like that can, can quickly become habit forming. And it doesn't just. And that's the thing is it doesn't just go to substances. I mean, there's a lot of people that will go to places that they shouldn't on the Internet.
- [45:56]
A
Oh yeah.
- [45:57]
B
And then they're like super quick. That becomes habit forming. And the reason is they're like, well, this is what I have to do to relieve stress. Or this is what I have to do to, to go to sleep and can become that. Because you've gotten into that routine and going back to what we said before, you've convinced yourself that you can't without this thing.
- [46:13]
A
Yeah.
- [46:13]
B
Whatever it is. So, yeah, super proud of Oscar. Intro to that book is. Is awesome.
- [46:19]
A
Yeah, I like the back of it. Addiction, Chaos, Discipline, how to Stay Free From Addiction tells a story of impact that having an alcoholic father and watching him destroy his relationships, mental health and professional life has on family members. However, the message of this book is clear. Addiction can be defeated. The combined efforts of the author's own story of seeing addiction in his father and then in himself and the strategies he has implemented to create success make this a compelling and essential read for anyone who wants to get more out of life and does not want to succumb to the allure of their own addiction. Oscar Norlander wanted to see what he could achieve with self discipline and self reflection. His memoir, which is both emotionally intense and incredibly rational, will appeal to anyone who wants more out of life than to hit and live at rock bottom, man. Pretty rad, Oscar. Freaking proud of you, man. This is awesome. And you know, man, I think this is a good little point to wrap it up.
- [47:32]
B
Yeah. Not where we thought we were going with this episode, not at all. But definitely as we were getting into it, it was super cool. So thanks obviously. Big shout out to Oscar and to KG Spradley. Thank you guys so much for getting on the path and for sending us your stuff. I can't wait to dive into all of this. We'll have links to their books below in the show. Notes. If you have a friend that you want to share this with, go tell them. Tell them to go check out the JP Donanelle podcast. Helps us out a ton. Thank you for liking subscribing, for leaving comments on it and and for that engagement. Oscar is one of the guys from our community that was encouraged by people that were on the podcast and that we've gotten to interact with. So cool to get to see this come to fruition. One of the things Oscar mentions is the the need to take responsibility. If you want to know how to do that, go look@echelonfront.com extreme ownership is the book, but it's also the principle that governs and guides all of the leadership training that they do. If you want JP or Rob Jones, maybe Andrew Paul to work directly with your company, if you want specific CEO training, or maybe you want to be part of those Monday afternoon calls on the Extreme Ownership Academy, go to echelonfront.com email infochlonfront.com if you want more information on how you can get on the path with the laws of combat with becoming a better leader and becoming the best version of yourself. Make sure also to check out LittleCattle Co for beef tallow products as the weather is getting worse, one of the things we're finding in our household, you know what's happening. Chapped lips, chapped hands, Tallow is unreal. It's incredible. And helping out with all of those things, Levi, our three year old, got a little his skin is just kind of like naturally dry and so if he goes outside, even if we've got them all like jacketed up up or anything that his his little skin just can't take it. But you know what? Beef towel in the morning, a little bit on him in in the afternoon and he's been doing great and he doesn't hurt whenever he goes outside. He's not complaining about his hands from the wind and stuff because the wind here in North Texas is awful. So that's great. Check that out. If you have apparel printing that you need done for all your apparel printing needs, go check out on the Path Printing. JP and I are part of a ministry called Jesus and Jiu Jitsu. We do regularly scheduled seminars across the United States. This year we're doing all kinds of stuff, maybe even internationally. Towards the end of the year, the beginning of 27, which I'm super stoked about, we had an event scheduled for January 24th with Victor Hugo in DFW that has been moved because of bad weather. So that will now be on February 7th, I think is our rescheduled date for that. So if you were coming out this weekend, reschedule, what you got going on February 7th is when we're going to do that. Victor is going to be back. It's going to be absolutely awesome. You know, we've talked a lot about ways that we can get off the path, things that distract us. Well, one of the ways you can get on the path is working with the people at first in nutrition. One of the best things you can do is take care of yourself. Because as you start to do that, all of these other areas where you have yourself convinced, hey, I need to do xyz, they kind of fade away when you start doing the right things. If you want to do those things, go check out firstinnutrition.com jppod Jonathan and Anne Montgomery are giving away four free weeks of nutrition coaching. They're absolutely awesome at it. If you want to see what somebody looks like that's on the path with them, go look at our friend Ethan Bernard over on Instagram and Facebook. Check his stuff out. And if you want to become part of the conversation with what we're doing, go check out JP Danelle, two N's, two L's over on Instagram. You can look at me, I'm Lucas Pinkert. Or go check out the the JP Dennell podcast. If you want some clips from our podcast that you can take and share with other people as you find the stories of the people that are on our podcast inspiring for yourself and for others. And finally, Bruiser Arms JP Jocko Leif custom gear packages and training, go check.
- [51:29]
A
Out.
- [51:31]
B
Origin usa, the company that keeps us clothed and warm during these winter months and season. With all the products we talked about before and, and huge shout out to all the folks, the family over at Jocko Fuel, keeping us fueled for our podcast with creatine with hydrates, the new. What is it? The fruity cereal that literally smells just like fruity pebble milk. And. And the Jocko goal goes. Thank you guys so much. Remember to use code JPPOD20 to save 20% at checkout. JP, you got any final thoughts for us, man?
- [52:03]
A
And then also when people use that code, it helps out the podcast 100%. Yeah, very appreciate it.
- [52:06]
B
Yeah, it helps to pay for my alternator, which thank you guys very much for that.
- [52:11]
A
You know, I had a few thoughts as we're closing it out, and one of them, you know, I know Oscar's talked about this before, like reading extreme ownership helped shape things in his life. Listen to this podcast. Listen to Jocko's podcast. But, you know, the principles of extreme ownership, you know, and that's the thing, is when you start taking ownership over your life, it gives you control. It doesn't fix everything right away, but it gives you control and it gives you a framework for moving forward, to solve the problems, to reclaim your life and to go out there and just do the right thing. You know, I'm not a big sports guy, but, you know, Fernando Mendoza is a pretty big name right now.
- [52:51]
B
Yep.
- [52:52]
A
Stud athlete, quarterback, you know, and the story of his family is just incredible. Like his dad doesn't stand up to cheer because his wife Fernanda's mom has Ms. And cannot stand up. And so I'm sure you've seen that video. I'm sure you and I had the same reaction. Tears, just emotions, just unreal. But you know, in our instructor, instructor text for Echelon Front, this was sent out. And Fernando Mendoza reads these four books during his perfect season. You want to guess what the number.
- [53:27]
B
One book, Extreme Ownership.
- [53:28]
A
Yep.
- [53:29]
B
That's what I'm talking about.
- [53:30]
A
Pro.
- [53:30]
B
What a guy.
- [53:31]
A
Let's go. So.
- [53:33]
B
And congrats.
- [53:34]
A
Yes, absolutely.
- [53:35]
B
Yeah.
- [53:35]
A
So whether you're a high level athlete or just the average human like all of us that just wants to have a little more control in your life, to be able to do the right things, to be able to work through these hard times, you have to take ownership. You have to take ownership over your life, over your thoughts, over your addictions, over your desires so that you can do the right thing. So you can lead. You can lead yourselves, you can lead your family, you can lead the people around you. And it only starts when you start taking extreme ownership. So I hope this episode has been a reminder to go do the work that's needed to put in the effort to build your legacy and to never settle. And to to close out episode 122. I want to remind you that addiction can be defeated.