← JP Dinnell Podcast
JP Dinnell Podcast
Leading Through Change The Right Way | How To Grow Without Selling Out | JP Dinnell Podcast 117
00:50:46
Loading summary
Transcript155 lines
- [00:02]
A
Good morning. This is the JP Donnell podcast, episode 117. I am JP Donnell and as always, I have Lucas with me. The Extreme Ownership Rundown is a weekly newsletter that is emailed out each Friday and it is written by Leif Babbitt. So the Extreme Ownership Rundown that I am going to read was actually published last Friday, December 12th when an organization goes through a restructure or merger, leaders often feel the same shock their teams uncertainty, frustration and even fear. But this is precisely the moment when leadership matters most. Change exposes cracks, communication gaps, misaligned priorities, and lack of trust. It also reveals opportunities for leaders to step up, remain focused on strategic goals, and help stabilize the team. In times of upheaval, extreme ownership is even more important. You may not control the restructure, but you do control how you lead through it and how you respond to it. Your team is looking to you for stability. If you let frustrations or fears rattle you, they see it and they feel it. All too often those same emotions are magnified in the team. But if you stay calm, balanced, and remain positive and focused on what you can control, that calm will be contagious. At the same time, work to see how the change can help your mission and create belief. Look for the path forward, but don't sugarcoat a difficult situation. Your people will see right through it, but don't catastrophize either people. I'm sorry. Provide transparent updates, set clear expectations and reinforce your commitment to the mission and your team. Despite the structure change, restructures usually create confusion around roles and authorities. Think strategically and put the success of the overall team and the mission first. Work to outline responsibilities as early as you can. Help leaders at every level move forward to the goal, even when all the details aren't known yet. Your team doesn't need a perfect plan. They need to understand the mission and the why so they can take ownership and lead. This week, identify one area where your team is feeling uncertainty due to organizational change or the rumors of future change. Take ownership of providing simple, clear and concise information. Remain calm and recognize how it might benefit your team and your mission. Stay focused on what you can control. Create an actionable plan and communicate it directly to your team. Like I mentioned earlier, this was from the Extreme Ownership Rundown that Leif Babin wrote and was published on Friday, December 12th, 2025. The extreme ownership Rundown is a weekly newsletter that is emailed out every Friday. I personally absolutely love reading each one and actually know a lot of my clients use them for weekly training as they recap the week or they use it for the following. Next. For the. For the next week to kick off some form of training with their teams using the Run as a platform. If any of our listeners would like to sign up for it, it's free. All you have to do is go to echelonfront.com then at the top of the page, click on Insights. And then at the top of that page, on the right half, you will see a section for you to be able to sign up for the extreme ownership rundown for free. So, Lucas, how are you doing?
- [03:47]
B
I'm doing good, man. I've been on the. The Rundown train. Dude's awesome for, I don't know, probably the last 70 weeks or so.
- [03:57]
A
Okay. Nice. Yeah. Yeah, that's. Yeah.
- [03:59]
B
So I. I remember reading number 100 whenever they. They hit the 100 mark. And this was on. I think this was like maybe 144that. That came out last weekend. Something. Something like that. It is a. First off, doing great, to answer your question, but second, that when it comes to this, this has been a really incredible tool for me because it seems like somewhere along the lines, something in the rundown, as it addresses different issues or whatever, that I'm going to run into somebody throughout the week that needs something that I got from that.
- [04:34]
A
Yeah.
- [04:34]
B
Whether it's a merger, whether, you know, with this one, I was talking to a buddy who had some teams that are now collaborating that didn't used to, and he's like, you know, we're trying to manage that. And I was like, oh, oh. You know, and when you're doing this, this is a great opportunity for extreme ownership. You know, don't let things create confusion. Come in with clear, simple, concise communication with the other person that's leading the other team. How you guys work together is going to kind of shed light for everybody else on how the teams need to work together, that kind of thing. I was able to pull some stuff kind of directly from this. You know, the work, to outline responsibilities as early as you can, those types of things that were. And immediately applicable to this other situation. So for me, it's been really cool on. On that and to see how much is covered in this. A lot. Like the Monday calls. Yeah, right. You're like, oh. You see a topic come up here, like, well, my. My business, my company, whatever, is really not going through those types of things, or this topic doesn't feel like it's directly applicable to me. But what you don't realize is it you. Yes. It is.
- [05:42]
A
Yes, it is. And why would you wait until it is applicable to try to dive through the archives and be like, oh, I got to watch this, Figure out how to work through it. Yeah, it's, you know, and I've heard people say that same thing. It's like, well, it's not something we're really working through right now. I'm like, okay, do you have humans that work at your company? And they laugh like, yeah. I'm like, well, you will. Either you have or you're going to. If you're not currently, you're absolutely going to deal with some of these issues in the future.
- [06:09]
B
So, yeah, and this, you know, it is the business application, but it's also when you've got families that are blending together. You know, mom and dad have kids that they're. They are now.
- [06:22]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [06:22]
B
As they're marrying that, like, parental responsibilities. Two families that are blending together because they're getting married, figuring out like, hey, whose house? We're right in the midst of holidays. Whose house are we going to go spend what holiday at? And how much time does each family get? You know, all of those things are, are part of the same stuff. So this is more than just a, hey, here's something cool you can do for your business. All of these things, whenever you, you look at the real lessons and start to apply them, they've got real world implications outside of just the, the business application that, you know, are. Are massive. Holidays for our family were big to do on, like, how we were going to figure that out. Kirsten's parents are divorced. They've each remarried, and Kirsten is the oldest sibling in her family. I'm the oldest sibling in mine, but she's the oldest sibling and the first one married in her family. I'm the oldest sibling, but I'm the youngest one married in my family. So my side of the family already kind of has their holiday groove sort of established. Whatever we do on her family, it's going to kind of establish what that looks like and how we respect both of her parents and their extended families and families of the step parents, all of those kinds of things. Like, this was a massive deal for us whenever we first got married and then we had a kid. And that just complicated everything way more. Because, you know, you miss out on seeing Lucas and Kirsten one year, like, it's not that big a deal. You miss out on seeing one of the kids, and it might be the only time of the year that you see them for some of these aunts and Uncles and whatever. Like now, now that's a huge chunk of time that, you know, has passed by because, you know, with a toddler, then they're two, three inches taller, way more like aptitudes are totally different, all of those kinds of things. So establishing those things was a, was a really big deal. Also outlining, like in your premarital counseling and those kinds of things, which I would highly encourage to everybody who's thinking about getting married is what your roles are going to look like whenever you get married, who's going to do what, what responsibilities are going to be shared, and then realizing that they're going to change over time, just like they will in business. Like, this is. This one in particular is just. It's got so many ways to apply it across the board in life and in business and even in recreation and all that kind of stuff. So this, this was one that I took a tremendous amount from and saw some ways where it was directly applicable, not just in, you know, what we do up at the church or the things that we do within the community and our partnerships there, but, like, at home was. It was pretty cool.
- [09:07]
A
Well, you know, when I read this the other week and then when I was like typing this up and prepping for this, I didn't think about it. I didn't think about it earlier when I was reading through it. I didn't think about it when I printed off and read it. But as you mentioned, I was just thinking, I'm like, this is what my family's dealt with this year.
- [09:24]
B
Yeah, no doubt.
- [09:25]
A
The reconnection with Hayden and just navigating that the right proper way, which it's gone incredibly well. I mean, the communication between myself, Amanda and his mom is awesome. It's consistent. You know, there's a lot of just, just back and forth communication and maintaining alignment and then, you know, incorporating Hayden into our, our things, our schedule, our chaos and, you know, which is a lot for him to have to adjust to. I mean, you know, you've been a single kid your whole life, and all of a sudden you have an older brother and two younger sisters and, you know, a family in Texas and navigating travel and time off and, you know, so it's, it's been a lot for him and also for our kids of just adapting. It's like, hey, yeah, these are things we've done every year and now we're also going to do them with Hayden.
- [10:22]
B
Yeah.
- [10:23]
A
You know, and just, also, just.
- [10:25]
B
And. And he's like a, He's a young man.
- [10:28]
A
Yes. He is.
- [10:29]
B
So it's, it's different than like telling a 10 year old, hey, this is what you're gonna go do. Like, this is an independent young man with his own set of friends. This is all things. And so. Yeah, yeah, you'll work out your ends and then there's the right. Well, what does he think about it? Because he's at an age where he.
- [10:47]
A
He gets to say, yeah, you know, and that's what.
- [10:50]
B
That's weird, man.
- [10:50]
A
Yeah, we've been very mindful of that. And you know, and also making sure like what he wants and says is in alignment with his mother as well. And so making sure we're like keeping all that. And she does a great job communicating with Amanda and I. And Amanda does a great job being proactive with our communication to her about upcoming things. And yeah, it's been, it's been really cool to navigate because it's been great. I know that I'm very blessed because there are other people that have these situations and it's not, it's just not that graceful.
- [11:25]
B
Yeah.
- [11:25]
A
You know, so, yeah. You know, from a business standpoint also, people have to understand, like if a company is growing and that's the goal of a company. Well, I should say that should be the goal of most companies. Some just wanted, they get to a point and they just want to hover there because that's what they're comfortable with, which I understand and I respect. It's hard for me to relate to that. But I do know that there are some people like, hey, they just want to do that. They don't want to build a company, they want to build a team and that's fine. But most companies, I mean, there's going to be restructures, there's going to be growth, there's going to be changes. And you know, it's one of the things that we talk about. Echelon front the mindset for victory. Innovate and adapt. Yeah. Is you have to be willing to change and adapt to those changes and be proactive and, you know, have a good attitude and encourage, encourage the people around you and try to find the best in it. Not just be like, oh, this is gonna suck. We gotta do all these things. It's, hey, man, this is what we get to do, right? We get to make these shifts and changes. We get to, you know, deliver more impact to our customers and clients and we, we get to develop new relationships and we get to learn new things. So it's definitely a shift of a mindset for Somebody to do that properly.
- [12:38]
B
But it's. It is one. You know, you talk about it. It's a little bit of the growing pains. But you've. I know we've talked about them several times on our podcast. When you look at a company that you guys work really closely with, like Groundworks, this is something that they've had to learn to navigate over time as they've.
- [12:58]
A
Their growth has been unreal.
- [12:59]
B
Exactly. But you don't get that growth without coming to terms with these kinds of things. One of the things, I've got some friends up in the Northwest, they say they work at coffee shops. And the one thing that they say that you cannot do in the Northwest is open a second coffee shop. Because as soon as you do, right now, you're a chain. And the. The idea of, like, we just want to buy local. We just want to buy mom and pop shops, like, whatever. The. If you. As soon as you open your second store, and at least this is the impression that they get is your. Your business will die because people will stop coming to you. Because now all of a sudden, you're. You're becoming a franchise. You're trying to become big. It's interesting, which is crazy, right? Because that's where Starbucks is from. So, like, there is no bigger coffee, you know, brand and chain than Starbucks. And maybe that's the. The Starbucks effect is that they're like, nope, as soon as you open up the second one, like, you're trying to become Starbucks and. And that's it. But there are. There are a lot of people, whether they truly believe in that, whether or not that's the truth of their situation or anything, the perception is that if I do this, then I'm selling out and all these kinds of things. So how do you overcome that mentality? Because ultimately all of those, I guess, excuses is what they are. All those excuses we come up with not to grow, right? Oh, well, people will say, I'm selling out, or I feel like I'm selling out or whatever. They're excuses not to grow because we don't want to handle the change. We don't want to handle the mantle of leadership that comes with that expansion. So how do you coach somebody through those types of things? Because I think we've got a lot of listeners who are probably at this point where, hey, you know what? As soon as I open up my second store, as soon as we enter into this new market or, you know, change manufacturers or whatever it is in the business that they're in, as soon as they do that. Now they're going to have to deal with this set of issues and the idea of getting teams to work together, the idea of merging or going through some type of change that's going to cause, you know, the exact type of growing pains that Leif is talking about in this. They're making all these excuses not to have to go through this. So what would you say to them? You know, as. As you're listening to them make the excuse, oh, I don't want to sell out. You know, we're not ready for that change.
- [15:36]
A
You know, we.
- [15:37]
B
We just don't. We don't have the bandwidth of the manpower, whatever that excuse is.
- [15:41]
A
Yeah. So I would go to chap. Chapter. Jeez, paragraph three in that article. I'm gonna reread it and then I'll dive into my thoughts. Yeah, yeah, it's cool. Because as you're saying that I was like, cool, boom, boom, boom. I have my thoughts for response and then scroll down and see paragraph three. And I'm like, well, there's the answer. At the same time, work to see how the change can help your mission and create belief. Look for the path forward, but don't sugarcoat a difficult situation. Your people will see right through it, but don't catastrophize either. Provide transparent updates, set clear expectations, and reinforce your commitment to the mission and your team, despite the structure changes. So if you were coming to me with those concerns, I would validate your concerns. I wouldn't dismiss them. I say, you know, Lucas, these are. These are valid concerns. I definitely do not want anybody to think that we're selling out. I don't ever plan on selling out. Now, I think my definition of selling out and other people's might be different, and I'm fine with that.
- [16:47]
B
What's your definition?
- [16:49]
A
Not doing the right thing?
- [16:51]
B
Okay.
- [16:51]
A
I think selling out, in the way I look at it, sir, is not doing the right thing. And I believe that our organization does the right thing. Do you agree with that?
- [17:02]
B
Yeah.
- [17:02]
A
Do you believe that we deliver impact to our customers and we positively change their lives?
- [17:09]
B
Yeah.
- [17:10]
A
Okay. Do you believe that this organization has had a positive impact on. On your life in your family? Yeah. Okay. Do you also want that for other people or do you just want it to be just for you?
- [17:25]
B
Just for me.
- [17:26]
A
Okay.
- [17:27]
B
Right, Yeah. I mean, like that series of questions, like, that's awesome.
- [17:30]
A
So let's just say you did say, yeah, just for me.
- [17:33]
B
Right.
- [17:34]
A
Which 99% of people are. No, let's just go.
- [17:38]
B
Worst case, let's Just say, I am a turd.
- [17:40]
A
Yeah. Okay, cool. Now, I know you don't align with the mission, and I'm. I'm going to work through. I'm going to replace you.
- [17:46]
B
Oh, boom, Done.
- [17:47]
A
Because if you are all about you and not impacting anybody else, I can't have you on the team because that's a cancer, and we have to remove cancer. We don't just push it to the back. Like, we cut it out and remove it. So, I mean, 99% of the people, I would say, like, 99.9 would agree that, yeah, you want it for other people.
- [18:12]
B
Even if not, they know that's not. That the right answer is not no. Regardless of whether or not it's legit.
- [18:18]
A
I've met some, like, really just not great people. And the way I frame those questions, they would say yes as well. They'd be like, yeah, of course you want. Because at the end of the day, you're thinking of somebody in your life that, you know, could benefit from it. Yeah. And so I say, you know, do you. Okay, so it's had. It's had a positive impact on your life.
- [18:38]
B
Yep. I want to see that same impact in.
- [18:40]
A
Yeah.
- [18:40]
B
So there's.
- [18:41]
A
Hey, I just want to make sure. On the same page. So I'm going to make sure we're on the same page. So you believe that we deliver impact to our clients. You know, that we help our clients. This is company has had a positive impact on your life and your family, and you want the same for other people. I love that. That's why you're part of the team, and that's why I believe that you're going to be able to help us with this growth. Because when we grow, we can actually impact more people's lives.
- [19:05]
B
Yeah.
- [19:06]
A
If we keep the company the size that it is right now, while it's great, we are also very limited on the impact that we can deliver. So if we grow strategically, meaning slow and steady, and we are able to get the right technology, the right tools, the right resources, the right training for you and your team and myself to handle this growth, I think we can deliver impact at a much higher level without losing the culture that we have. And, Lucas, you're. Your concerns are very valid because I know that there are a lot of companies that grow and expand and they outgrow their culture. Is that your biggest concern is actually outgrowing the culture that we have?
- [19:53]
B
I mean, that's a stellar question. Right.
- [19:59]
A
Because people stay for culture.
- [20:00]
B
Yeah.
- [20:01]
A
So I think that's why People are afraid of that culture. And if you say no, actually, I think it's gonna be strong. I just, you know, I just. I don't know if we have the capabilities. So is it from, like, a training standpoint? Is it personnel? Is it equipment? Like, I'm just going to ask you general questions, and I'm going to be writing down these things. I'm going to be taking notes. I'm going to start with culture first, because I know most people, the concern is. Is losing the culture.
- [20:25]
B
Yeah.
- [20:26]
A
And then I would reinforce you. Like, Lucas, I think our culture is the best thing that we have. And I will not grow this company at the sacrifice of our culture. But I also believe that our culture is maintained at your level and below. Now, obviously, it comes from me, but you and your team are the backbone of this company, and that's why I really need your help. Because if we're going to grow this properly, it's through you and your team. You guys have the knowledge, just the. You guys know how to do this better than anybody else. Yeah. So when we grow, you and your team, helping bring on these new hires and get them trained up, but also maintaining the culture is what's going to give us the success that we need to have a strategic growth plan without losing the culture. And if you ever feel that we are outgrowing our ability to maintain culture, I need your help, and I need you to come let me know right away, because if that's the case, that's something I need to know about so that we can address it. And any ideas you have, we're going to put them into place if they make sense. And so I'm just. I'm going to listen to you. I'm going to acknowledge your feelings and concerns. I'm going to take preemptive ownership over some of the concerns I think you might have. And just explain to you, like, if we do this properly, it's actually going to impact your life at a. At a better level. And then, you know, which we all know most people are concerned about finances, and, you know, we all have bills and we need to make money. And so I'm going to cast a vision of growth for you. Hey, Lucas, as we grow, you know, we're going to have two different markets, which means those are two different regions. And right now, you're a manager of this location. I'm going to need a regional manager. I'm going to need somebody that can actually manage two teams the way you've been managing yours. You already have two to three people that could fill your spot. And as we develop this other team, I need you to be able to duplicate yourself over there, build that person, and when they're ready, let me know, and then we'll just kind of like, walk them through it. And then for you, that'll be a promotion to a regional manager. And, oh, by the way, here's what that promotion looks like. This is what you increase. Your pay is bonuses, all these things. So you're casting vision for, hey, if we do this right, there has to be a benefit to you and your team. It's not just to grow. To grow. But I don't know, that's the way I would go about it.
- [23:07]
B
You know, I think that that's a really interesting take on it because that's not the way that most of us approach it. Like, when we hear. I think the term sellout happens most often, at least in my mind, right when. When Metallica came out with the Black Album, right? Like, that was the. The sellout, but it was the one that they sold the absolute most copies of. And it was one of those where people like, oh, you're just doing this for commercial success. But I do think that, you know, it kind of checks all those boxes, and we. We use it. We use the term a lot whenever it comes to artists, right? Whether actors or whatever, Right? Yeah. Right. So when. When the term is used, a lot of times we frame it in that category as a person is like, giving up on their principles in order that they might make a dollar. And so there's an ethical undertone to it. But when a company is growing and it's with that very first thing that you're. You're talking about, like, the growth comes because we're doing the right thing, right? We're not diminishing a product and like, becoming charlatans where we say that it's American made. And now we're, you know, very sneakily, like, importing all of our stuff from a foreign entity in order that, you know, we can do it. And now it's just really assembled in the U.S. and no longer, like, made in the U.S. like those. Those kind of things happened over time. But when you're continuing to do the right things for the right reasons and you can stand by that, then the growth makes a lot of sense. The other set of pains is that's a whole nother thing that has to do with integrity on a different level. And those are legitimate questions that have to be brought up in the proper way. But this type of Growth. And what we're talking about here is. Yeah, if you're doing the right things for the right reasons, you're delivering impact, you're doing those things, then it's easy to address those questions as they come up, and that's really powerful.
- [25:05]
A
You know, one thing that Jocko brought up. Sorry. Years ago, was intent has a smell. And it's one of the things that we talk about at Echelon Front. And, you know, he didn't say it in this article, but intent has a smell. And there is a social media quote, influencer, unquote. I don't follow him anymore because I. I just. I started.
- [25:27]
B
It's really irritating.
- [25:28]
A
Well, I know. I. Yes. But I started to see through all the bs. And you and I have talked about that just because of what I did and what I do at Echelon Front, it's easier for me to see things and be like. And there's also the real gift of discernment that God has given me. I can discern, like, things that most people don't see. And then once we talk through it, my buddy's like, how. Okay. Yep, you're spot on. Anyways, I saw this in this guy a long time ago, and I just was like, all right, I'm just gonna not engage with this stuff anymore.
- [25:58]
B
Yes. Red flags came up.
- [25:59]
A
Yeah. But some of those guys, I like to just kind of keep where I follow to see what they're doing. And, yeah, man, this guy, he got just taken to the. Just, like, literally thrown to the wolves because he was trying to do American Made. You know what. What Pete and Amanda Roberts and their whole team, you know, John, Dennis, all those incredible humans.
- [26:25]
B
Yeah. What's up, Dennis?
- [26:26]
A
Yeah, buddy. Have done with origin. Like, people are trying to replicate. And I love that. And Pete loves that. Like, he wants that. Like, let's bring it back to America, bro.
- [26:36]
B
I'm. I'm all about strength. I was telling you about our nation. Our cousin who is 18 years old and who is programming cotton gins right now.
- [26:44]
A
That fired me as.
- [26:45]
B
As manufacturing is coming back to the United States. You know what he's doing? Making more money, getting more jobs. He's about to have to start training people to do this, and he's like, bro, the cotton industry in America is, like, starting to boom again.
- [26:57]
A
Yep.
- [26:57]
B
Heck, yeah. It should be. Yes.
- [26:59]
A
As it should be.
- [27:00]
B
But.
- [27:00]
A
Yeah, but this.
- [27:01]
B
All I'm saying is that, like, it. It's more than just the guys that put the clothes together that it impacts.
- [27:06]
A
Well, this guy was selling all this stuff as Made in America and sewing the wrong tags, like tags that said Made in America on his stuff, which is, I think, illegal.
- [27:17]
B
Oh, it's 100% illegal.
- [27:18]
A
I'm just saying. I think so. I don't want to put out factuals.
- [27:20]
B
Yeah.
- [27:20]
A
From my end tag.
- [27:22]
B
Tag swapping is not legal.
- [27:24]
A
Okay, there we go. So he was doing this and just got hammered for it, but then also lost a lot of credibility. A lot of credibility. You know, one of the things I love about Bob Holland's company, Hooley Golf, is they're very apparent. Like right now they don't have the ability to have it All American made material. Yeah. It's very clear assembled in America, which is awesome. Like, hey, if that's your first step, do it. And because I know Bob's goal with that company is to grow it to the point where they can do All American Made. It's very hard for people to do it. We know that. And that's why Pete Roberts wants more people doing it. Because if more people are actually doing what Origin's doing, it allows the smaller companies, like Hooligolf, which is a incredible company, by the way, to be a hundred percent American made. Yeah, but his stuff is assembled in America and the countries that he gets materials from aren't China. It's not like companies that we know are communists that, you know, are just bad. It's like, okay, cool, let's get her. They're doing what they can. Yeah. Which I really respect. But yeah, this other guy. Intent has a smell. And I was like, man, there's. There's something here. There's something here with this guy. And it came to fruition and there's a bunch of other stuff. And he ended up like, just kind of dwindling away. And I was like. And unfollow. I just don't need that in my life anymore. But, you know, one of the things I like in paragraph 4, restructures usually create confusion around roles and authorities. Common concern. Think strategically and put the success of the overall team and mission first. Again, the success of the overall team and the mission first. Work to outline responsibilities as early as you can. Because if I was to outline those responsibilities to you as early as I can, what am I removing? A little bit of fear of the unknown. Because we know restructures and change, like I said, confusion, roles and responsibilities and the authorities that you have. Well, that confusion can allow fear to creep in of the unknown. People don't like the unknown. People like to have control that's why also taking ownership and driving ownership allows people to be bought in and have control. Therefore, they have buy in. Help leaders at every level move forward towards a goal even when all the details aren't known. We don't have to have a perfect plan. It's one of the things I loved about Dave Burke's book, the need to Lead is the chapter about perfection is a lie. It doesn't exist. Like, we're not going to have all the details. Everything's not going to be perfectly laid out. And if I have somebody on my team and let's say we're role playing through that again, and you're, you know, concern and be like, hey, Lucas, here's the. Here's the responsibilities that you have currently. Here's what I expect of you as we move forward. Here's what they look like. I know a lot of these things are new. I don't expect you to knock it out of the park and be perfect. Now, I know you're capable of doing that.
- [30:23]
B
Of course I am.
- [30:24]
A
Yes, absolutely. That's why you're in this position.
- [30:25]
B
Right?
- [30:26]
A
That's why, you know, you're one of my best employees. You're a hard worker. You do it for your family. I know that you care. But I also want you to know I don't expect you to be perfect. There is not one perfect person in this company. I started the company. I'm not perfect. As you know, I have a lot of flaws, things I'm working on. I don't expect you to do this perfect. But what I do expect of you is integrity, which you have, a good work ethic, which you have. Having a good attitude, which you have, and being disciplined. If you can have a good attitude, maintain your integrity, your work ethic and discipline, you're going to be okay. And as we move forward, forward with this, I want to make sure that our communication is very regular. So if I'm not communicating to you enough for what you need from me, let me know, Come to me. You know, you can always call me, you can always reach out to me, send me a text, an email, whatever. Put a meeting on the calendar. If it's open, boom, let's do it. But here's what I need from you, man. I need your help. Because we're going to grow this company so that we can deliver more impact, that we can change more people's lives. And I want you to look back in three years in this new role and be smiling. And I know that we can do that. Yeah. I'm gonna maintain the encouragement the whole time.
- [31:46]
B
Right.
- [31:47]
A
Because that's contagious as well.
- [31:49]
B
Yeah. You know, that was one of the things in an early episode that Cody Gandy pointed out when he was talking about the. The incident that happened with his daughter and when she fell, bro, was that, like, him hopping down and just being calm changed the entirety of that situation? Because calm is contagious and. Right. And that was the point that he was making, that if one person is able to maintain calm in the chaos, then the people around them, especially if you're in a leadership position, will take cues off of that. And the folks that are in the back sounding the alarm or panicking or whatever, they'll. They'll realize that, hey, you know what?
- [32:31]
A
There.
- [32:31]
B
There's folks around that are able to. To handle these. These situations. And with restructures in particular, it's so. Man, it's so much uncertainty because you. You go in and you're wondering, like, are things going to be on level footing and level ground from. From now on? Am I now in a place where, like, maybe I was in a comfortable position and now I'm. I'm being moved into a. A place where I've got competition or now I've got to compete for things again? And is that good or bad for me and the people who work under me or my family or whatever? And again, you know, how these restructures apply, like, in. In life is. You know, even if it's. You know, we use the family analogy a lot, but, man, you get a new roommate and your. Your whole household is restructured pretty quick.
- [33:23]
A
Yike.
- [33:24]
B
Yeah. I mean, just depending on whether or not that that guy ends up doing the dishes at all or just. You just end up with an extra nine dishes in the sink.
- [33:34]
A
Brian experienced that, being single on the teams.
- [33:36]
B
No doubt, dude.
- [33:37]
A
And, yeah, there's times that I loved all my roommates, and there's times I was like, I'm looking for a new place.
- [33:43]
B
Yeah.
- [33:43]
A
Because if this person isn't going, you know what? I had one of my just very, very close friends, buddy Kurt. We were roommates, and him and I are so similar. Like, so similar on all these things. And that's why it was awesome for us to be roommates. And we had an additional roommate one time, and it was just like, we couldn't do it. Yeah. We're like, okay, I just. I can't do this. He couldn't do it. He was frustrated. I was frustrated. It was a very unique situation. So it was Just. Yeah.
- [34:20]
B
And. And it's weird, right? Especially when roommates situations changed. You know, we had. I lived with a guy who, if I told him that we needed the dishes done, he would do them. If I didn't say it, they would stack up. They would stack up. And he. For him, it just never entered into his mind that you need to do the dishes. Like, there would just be a pile. And if I was like, hey, bro, do you mind doing the dishes? We got some people coming over tonight. Yeah. Always had a good attitude about it, was never upset about it. Just never thought about doing the dishes. But if we never said anything.
- [34:53]
A
That's crazy.
- [34:54]
B
I'm talking like, the. The countertops would be filled with dishes that he, like, pulled out of his room. And then I lived with another guy who traveled a bunch, and he was in town, like, maybe, you know, 10 days a month.
- [35:07]
A
Perfect roommate.
- [35:08]
B
Yeah, right.
- [35:09]
A
And.
- [35:09]
B
And I had. I'd rushed out of the house. We had. It was three of us that were living together. I had rushed out of the house and left my cereal bowl in the sink. But that was it. It was the only thing in the kitchen. And he's like, listen, we can't live in this crap hole and do all this stuff. And I was like, okay, first off, bruv, you're like. You're like one day a week, okay. You know, but it's. It's just one of those. It's. It's weird.
- [35:36]
A
And was his name Derek Benson? No, my old roommate who would actually just do Jake and I's dishes.
- [35:42]
B
Yeah, no, this. He. He literally. He sent like, this whole text message and. And we were in a group and our. Our. I knew what it was. So our third roommate was like, can you please send a picture of the kitchen? Because something must have happened since we left. And it was just one bowl. It was in there. Like, that's. That's mine.
- [35:59]
A
I was.
- [36:00]
B
I was running a little.
- [36:01]
A
That's a little interesting this morning withdrawal.
- [36:03]
B
Though, that he decided, oh, 100%. And then when the lease was up, we. The three of us talked and he was like, well, I think I'm going to stay here. Because he was the first one on the lease, and me and the other roommate were like, okay, well, we're gonna move out. Well, that'll be really tough for me. Yeah, well, Deuces.
- [36:18]
A
Yep.
- [36:18]
B
You know, and on to the next thing. But, like, the restructuring and communication and all of those things and like, the uncertainty of all of that happen in so many areas across the board. And with with this paragraph in particular, you know, the. The success of the overall team, whether it is in a household that's full of young bachelors, whether it's in a business, whether it's in a church, whether it's in a nonprofit, whether it's in, you know, a community committee where you're trying to put on something like, you know, we had a. The Marion Main parade was just in Lake Dallas. There's a planning committee of people who do that. The. You know, we have the tree lighting at City hall, and there's a parade, and people sign up to put in floats, and there's people that donate. And we use that and we couple it as a way to sponsor some of the angel trees for kids that aren't going to have gifts like that whole group.
- [37:10]
A
Oh, dude, please, you and your wife keep Amanda and I updated. We'd like to. That'd be cool. To help with that.
- [37:16]
B
Yeah, so it's. It's a really cool thing that we. That everybody that participates is there, but you can get one or two people that, you know, they want to be at the front of the parade or they've got these little agendas or whatever, they can blow the whole thing up. Well, whether it's. It's those kinds of things, whether it's your household, whether it's your business, whatever it is, if you were thinking strategically, if you're putting the overall mission first, then one, the people that aren't on board will show themselves pretty early on, where everybody's like, okay, this is not a team player. Yeah, this isn't. This isn't the real deal. But also, like, it gets you the leadership capital that you need in order to. To be able to accomplish those things and to work together to where nobody cares whether or not this next step is equal footing. As long as everybody wins in the end, that's where you got to get to.
- [38:05]
A
Everybody wins in the end. If that's where we are and that's where we're going, if everybody's winning and everyone's going to win in the end, get on board. Like, do it like the mindset. And as we wrap it out, I think that's actually a good thing to think about is, you know, the. The mindset that we had in tasking a bruiser was one team, one fight. Now, was there healthy competition between Delta Platoon and Charlie Platoon? For sure, but the key word is healthy. It was healthy competition.
- [38:34]
B
I've read in a book about this healthy competition.
- [38:37]
A
There's a joke in the teams. I know. I'VE said it before, but if two team guys go on a run, it becomes a race. Yeah. As they come back, you know, and that's. It's just part of it. It's what made us good, and that's what makes the SEAL teams great. Is that healthy competition. But I'm not going to sabotage you so that I can win. I'm not going to sabotage Charlie Platoon so that Delta Platoon comes out on top. Like, that's not what we do. And when we got to Ramadi, we saw that in our leadership. Now we all believed it. But there is some issues and drama and silos in the military between different branches and even different departments within that branch, which is unfortunate. And some of it is just, you know, things that are passed down from other guys because, you know, when I was a new guy and I hear the old guys going, oh, F these guys. F these guys. I'm like, yeah, fm. I don't know why, but, you know, I'm on board. You're my guy. I got your back. You know, that's the unhealthy part of loyalty. Like, yeah, like, yeah, I'm loyal to my guys, but, like, wait, why? Why do we not like these guys?
- [39:41]
B
Yeah.
- [39:41]
A
Oh, there's no real reason. Okay. Actually, I'm gonna be the change. And it's like, no, let's. Unfortunately, I didn't do that in my first platoon because I was young and immature. But in our second platoon, we. We started to really understand, like, hey, we should have a really good relationship with the supply department. We should have a really good relationship with the armor. We should have a really good relationship with the motor pool and admin, you know, and all these different people. And. And we worked on it. And I'm not going to lie, it wasn't like we were like, right away, like, oh, cool, everybody's our friend. Like, your natural tendencies and behaviors are going to flare up. Your ego is going to flare up. And the only reason why you wouldn't, like, branch of the military or another department is because of your ego. Because if you really look at what we sign up to do in the military, it's. We're fighting for our nation. I'm not fighting for my branch to be the best. I'm fighting for our nation. And that's a lot of. A lot of time at Echelon Front when I'm working with different companies. That's a big issue is silos. That's why we talk about COVID move, breaking down silos, building relationships. When I'm working With first responders, this is huge. It's a huge issue. Is the silos between different departments, different shifts? Yeah, my goodness, man.
- [40:58]
B
Yeah, man.
- [40:59]
A
Different counties, different, you know, agencies. It's just like, hey, no, hold on. Why did you go into law enforcement? And the good first responders went into law enforcement to serve. And so it's like, hey, you know what? You're with the sheriff's department, I'm with the pd. Like, okay, cool. We have different agencies we work for, but hey, let's work on this together. One team, one fight. And when you see that collaboration, man, it's unreal. And, you know, Leif and I were talking a few months ago, actually, maybe it was like, I don't know, 6 is 6 ish weeks ago. But he said, you know, we at Echelon Front have to collaborate like our lives depend on it, just like we did in Ramadi. And then he brought it up at the muster when we were having the instructor meeting, and then he brought it up when we had the all hands meeting before the muster kicked off. And that's so true to all aspects of life. Like, you and your wife should be collaborating like your lives depend on it. You and your family should be collaborating like your lives depend on it. You and your fellow members of your church. I was trying to think of, like, the word for that. Should be collaborating like your lives depend on it. You and your neighbors, same. You know what I mean? Like, this can apply to all things in life. And if. If more of us had the mindset of one team, one fight, we all win. Let's collaborate like our lives depend on it. And so many things. Yeah, so many issues would go away, you know, and so if you want to learn more about that, you can go to echelonfront.com and check out what we do there. And we had the academy calls every Monday. It's Extreme Ownership Academy. It's a live training that we do at Echelon Front. But, man, I love the rundown. Again, if you go to echelonfront.com, click on the top of the page on Insights, and literally that page, like the top right portion of the page, it's literally just a box that says, sign up for the. For the rundown.
- [42:58]
B
Yeah. So sign up for the rundown. JP talked about some of the organizations that have gotten a lot of value out of it. I personally have gotten a lot of value out of it. If. If you want to join the conversation, you can go follow Echelon Front at Echelon Front over on Instagram and X and a few other places. You can follow us at. JP Dennell Podcast jpdonelle2ns2Ls I'm @ Lucas Pinkard and you know, maybe you listened to our last episode or if you haven't and you want to know a little bit about what Echelon Front does at the Muster, go back, listen to episode 116 with Ethan Bernard, who was at his very first Muster, invited as a guest there. We had a great conversation with Ethan about what the Muster is, some of the changes that he's going to make because of it, and two people he got to hang out with at the Muster quite a bit. Jonathan and Anne Montgomery, people over at first in Nutrition. If you go to firstinnutrition.com jppod they are offering four free weeks of nutrition coaching. They're gonna get you on the path, get a plan outlined. Don't be one of those people that waits until the first of the year to figure out how you're going to get your act together when it comes to your nutrition and your health. Do it now so that you're prepared when January 1st comes, when you start the deaf reset 2026 that you're ready to go. Instead of scrambling to try to figure out how you're gon avoid all those chips in queso when. When the bowl games roll.
- [44:14]
A
Around. But if it's in classic. Sorry, but in classic first in nutrition fashion, you don't have to avoid the queso. No, just track it, calculate it, and plan on it. If you know you want to eat queso, eat it. Yeah. And take a little preemptive ownership and say, all right, cool. I'm going to eat queso with this food plan. The plan. Look at the day, say, okay, cool, I'm going to eat all these things. What does it look like? Are my macros still on point? Am I hitting my prote protein goal? Am I under my.
- [44:44]
B
Calories? Maybe I got to go grain free chips in order to get the.
- [44:47]
A
Queso. Okay. Make a sacrifice so that you can have that queso. You can still eat your queso.
- [44:52]
B
And maybe just put it directly on styrofoam. I don't know. Whatever. The grain free trips are so gross anyway. Yeah, there, there are a number of different ways to do it and Jonathan and Ann and their team can help you out with all of that stuff. Jesus and Jiu Jitsu is a ministry that JP and I are both a part of. We've got some awesome stuff coming up on January 26th. Victor Hugo is coming and doing a seminar at six.
- [45:15]
A
Places. January.
- [45:16]
B
24Th. January 24th, January. He will not be here on the Monday during the seminar. No. Yeah, you're right. January 24, 2026. There it is. Victor Hugo will be in town doing a seminar there, which is going to be awesome. Once you're done with that seminar, maybe you've worn your origin rash guard and realized, hey, I probably should have gone long sleeve because I'm missing some skin. Or that's when you're going to know. What you need to do is go over to Little Cattle Co, grab some tallow and. And throw that on there. The skin care products that they've got over there, absolutely amazing. They've got tallow. They've got Tallow with the. The After Sun Care. They've got the anti itch cream, they've got the lip balm, all of that stuff. And then you're going to want to cover that up and go over to on the Path. On the Path Printing. Check them out for all your printing or your apparel printing needs. They've got all of that stuff covered. If you want to start your own brand or maybe you've got a company that, you know, you need to get some people in your gear. Go check out on the Path Printing. Leif, Jocko and JP have a. A little outfit in South Texas called Bruiser Arms. Well, I guess it's Central Texas.
- [46:18]
A
Really.
- [46:18]
B
Yeah. Called Bruiser Arms, where you can get the same gear that they used whenever they were defending our country. The gear setups, the. What's the. The proper way to put.
- [46:28]
A
It? It's the.
- [46:29]
B
Kit. Well, not just the kit, but the curated training. They're like, hey, I need training on X. Oh.
- [46:36]
A
Yeah. Customized training. And also, here's the other thing. So I did get some messages like, hey, that's great. You can do your old kits, but man, that gear is outdated. Okay, cool. Like, what do you want? We can customize anything. You know, we have some packages with staccato arms. Those pistols are.
- [46:53]
B
Unreal.
- [46:54]
A
Yeah. We weren't carrying that into your Bruiser, but you want a Bruiser Arm staccato pistol that Sean Ryan was shooting with Jocko and Leif when they were both on his show.
- [47:03]
B
Unreal.
- [47:04]
A
Yeah. So we can do that.
- [47:05]
B
Yeah. So awesome stuff. Go check out Bruiser Arms. And then finally, as always, big thanks to To Origin and to Jocko Fuel, I'm rocking the Mango passion fruit, which. What did that used to be.
- [47:18]
A
Called? Mango.
- [47:18]
B
Mayhem. That's what I thought. Yeah. That was the Echo.
- [47:21]
A
Charles.
- [47:21]
B
Yeah. And on the, on his little label it just said pushes record was one of my favorite things of the old cans. Yeah, the mango, Mango passion fruit. JP is drinking the orange hydrate. They got a bunch of new products on there. If you go on to jockofuel.com if you go to origin USA.com and sign up for their email list and their text messaging, you will get all kinds of insane deals during the holiday season and then even into the new year, especially as they're moving some stuff along. Origins got the women's line that they just announced which is coming on in the spring. Kirsten's super stoked about that. But go to jockofield.com use code JP Pod20save20 and a huge shout out.
- [48:01]
A
To. And it helps the.
- [48:02]
B
Podcast.
- [48:03]
A
Yeah. When you do that, it does. Love you guys both for sure. Everything that they've done for manufacturing and I, you know, you talk about this subject today. The, the changes that Origin has gone through over the years, from cutting down trees on their property to building a factory to getting a place out in town. And now they have locations, multiple locations. They have changed so many people's lives for the better, not just their customers. Because right now I'm 100%, except for my shoes, because I change out of my boots into some shoes. I'm 100% American made, what I'm wearing today. And it's all Origin stuff. So yeah, I benefit because it's quality gear that's insanely comfortable. But I also love when I purchase stuff from Origin because I, I know the people that are making it. And now I know everyone's not going to have that access that I have. I mean, if you want go to Immersion camp, you get to do a factory tour and meet everybody and see.
- [49:03]
B
It. Shoot them an email because they will email you back. And if you want a little like 10 or 15 minute tour up there, they'll do it. Well, even, hey, I'd like to get on your schedule because I just want some.
- [49:14]
A
Advice.
- [49:14]
B
Yep. Be.
- [49:15]
A
Bold. Like, it's crazy. They'll do.
- [49:17]
B
It. They'll do it. They're freaking.
- [49:18]
A
Awesome. I know a lot of people that have gone, they're like, hey, I'm going up to Maine for a vacation. I'd love to go by the factory. Like, but I'm like, you should go there, like, reach out ahead of time. You know, don't just show up, like, reach out ahead of time. And they'll, I mean, they had the factory stored in downtown Farmington, Maine, which is incredible. And shares the history. But, you know, what they've done is just is awesome. They've impacted so many people's lives for better, given men and women a sense of fulfillment, purpose, a safe place to work, which is really important. And I know some of the men and women that work there. When they go to work at Origin, it is the best part of their day. Yeah, because of the home life. Unfortunately, when they go to work, it is the best time of their day. And that's because of the culture that Origin has created and Jocko feel as well. So I appreciate them. Pete Roberts just had a pretty big surgery. Been keeping them in my prayers. He's recovering well. And so as we close it out, I just want to reiterate what Leif Babin said. Collaborate like your lives. Depend upon it, because they do. I hope this episode has been a reminder to go do the work that's needed to put in the effort to build your legacy and to never settle. This has been the JP Dennell podcast, episode.