Podcast Summary: Leading Through Change The Right Way | How To Grow Without Selling Out

Episode: JP Dinnell Podcast 117
Hosts: JP Dinnell, Lucas Pinckard
Date: December 19, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode explores the challenges and opportunities of leading through organizational change, whether it's a business restructuring, rapid growth, or merging teams. Drawing on the principles of "Extreme Ownership" and frontline leadership, JP and Lucas discuss how to navigate uncertainty, maintain your core values during growth, avoid "selling out," and apply these lessons not just in business but across family and personal life.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Importance of Leadership During Change (00:01 - 04:30)

• JP reads and discusses Extreme Ownership Rundown from Leif Babin, emphasizing:
  • Change in organizations exposes flaws but also creates opportunities for leadership.
  • Leaders must remain calm and focused, as their composure is contagious.
  • Avoid sugarcoating or catastrophizing—be transparent, set clear expectations, and focus on what you can control.

Quote [A, 00:01]:
"In times of upheaval, extreme ownership is even more important. You may not control the restructure, but you do control how you lead through it and how you respond." – JP reading Leif Babin

2. From Business to Family: Applying Leadership Lessons Everywhere (05:41 - 12:38)

• Lucas discusses using the Rundown insights in various life scenarios, such as business mergers and family dynamics.
• The hosts stress the universal applicability of leadership principles—negotiating blended family holidays, setting expectations in relationships, etc.
• The importance of proactive communication and role definition in family changes mirrors what’s needed during organizational shifts.

Quote [B, 06:09]:
"This is more than something cool for your business. All of these lessons… they've got real world implications outside of just the business application." – Lucas

• JP shares a personal story about reconnecting with his son Hayden and how open, consistent communication made the transition positive for everyone involved.
• Both hosts highlight defining roles, expectations, and being ready to adapt.

3. Growth Without “Selling Out” (12:38 - 25:28)

Addressing the Fear of Change and 'Selling Out'

• Growth is often accompanied by fear—fear of losing culture, sense of "selling out," or not being able to handle new responsibilities.
• Lucas shares how small businesses sometimes resist expansion to avoid being labeled as sellouts or losing local appeal, citing the "second coffee shop" dilemma in the Pacific Northwest.

Quote [B, 13:00]:
"If I do this… people will say I’m selling out. Those are excuses not to grow because we don’t want to handle the change or the mantle of leadership that comes with expansion." – Lucas

Coaching Through Growth

• JP explains his coaching framework to overcome resistance to growth:
  • Validate concerns instead of dismissing them.
  • Clarify what "selling out" really means—he defines it as "not doing the right thing."
  • Reconnect employees to mission and culture—growth should never sacrifice these.
  • Cast a vision for how growth creates more opportunities and impact.

Quote [A, 16:49]:
"What's your definition [of selling out]? … Not doing the right thing. And I believe that our organization does the right thing." – JP

• JP uses a series of Socratic questions to align team members with the mission and show how growth enlarges their positive impact and creates new opportunities for internal promotion and reward.

4. Protecting Culture Through Strategic Growth (19:53 - 25:28)

• JP emphasizes that maintaining culture is non-negotiable.
• Growth should be "strategic—slow and steady, with the right resources, technology, and training."
• Responsibility for maintaining culture lives not just with top leaders but within every layer of the organization.

Quote [A, 20:26]:
"I will not grow this company at the sacrifice of our culture. But our culture is maintained at your level and below… That’s why I really need your help." – JP

5. Integrity, Transparency, and “Intent Has a Smell” (25:04 - 27:17)

• JP recounts how unethical practices (like faking "Made in America" labels) erode trust and damage organizations, contrasting this with companies like Origin and Hooley Golf who are honest about their current capabilities and aspirations.
• "Intent has a smell"—if leaders or companies aren't genuine, people will eventually see through it.

Quote [A, 25:04]:
"Intent has a smell… if you’re not doing the right thing, people will see it."

6. Handling Uncertainty: Roles, Responsibilities, and the Fear of the Unknown (27:17 - 32:30)

• Clearly defined responsibilities reduce the fear and confusion that accompanies change.
• Perfection isn’t required; instead, leaders and team members should focus on integrity, attitude, discipline, and regular, proactive communication.

Quote [A, 30:25]:
"I don't expect you to be perfect. But what I do expect is integrity, a good work ethic, having a good attitude, and being disciplined… And as we move forward, I want to make sure our communication is very regular."

7. Calm is Contagious—The Power of Demeanor (31:46 - 33:23)

• Lucas references a story from Cody Gandy showing how a leader’s calm can transform a stressful situation.

Quote [B, 31:47]:
"Him hopping down and just being calm changed the entirety of that situation. Because calm is contagious."

8. One Team, One Fight: The Power of Healthy Collaboration (38:05 - 42:58)

• Drawing from SEAL team experience, JP illustrates the difference between healthy and toxic competition.
• True leadership breaks down silos, builds relationships across teams, agencies, or departments, and prioritizes the mission over personal or group egos.
• The philosophy of “one team, one fight” and collaborating “like your lives depend on it” is applicable everywhere—from the battlefield to business to family or community work.

Quote [A, 42:53]:
"As we wrap it out… the mindset we had in Task Unit Bruiser was one team, one fight… I’m not gonna sabotage you so I can win… That’s not what we do."

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [00:01] JP (reading Leif Babin): "Change exposes cracks, communication gaps, misaligned priorities, and lack of trust. It also reveals opportunities for leaders to step up, remain focused on strategic goals, and help stabilize the team."
• [16:49] JP: "What's your definition [of selling out]? Not doing the right thing."
• [20:26] JP: "I will not grow this company at the sacrifice of our culture."
• [25:04] JP: "Intent has a smell."
• [31:47] Lucas: "Calm is contagious."
• [42:53] JP: "Collaborate like your lives depend upon it. Because they do."

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:01 – 04:30 – Opening and Extreme Ownership Rundown discussion
• 05:41 – 12:38 – Applying leadership principles beyond business (family, community, church)
• 12:38 – 25:28 – Fears about growth, how to address the 'sellout' mentality, and maintaining culture
• 25:28 – 32:30 – The importance of intent, integrity, and clear communication during transitions
• 31:46 – 33:23 – The impact of leader demeanor—staying calm
• 38:05 – 42:58 – One team, one fight: collaboration within teams and across silos

Overall Tone and Language

The episode is candid, story-driven, and highly actionable, with both JP and Lucas tying leadership lessons to relatable, everyday experiences. They balance humility and humor (sharing roommate and family stories) with straight talk about responsibility, culture, and mission.

Takeaways

• True leadership during change hinges on calm, communication, and an unwavering commitment to core values.
• Growth is not inherently a "sellout" move—if done for the right reasons and with integrity, it multiplies positive impact.
• Clarity in roles, regular updates, and willingness to address concerns head-on preserve trust and culture during expansion.
• Collaboration—not ego—is essential: “one team, one fight,” whether you’re at home, on the job, or in your community.
• "Intent has a smell"; operate with transparency and purpose.

For more leadership tools or to sign up for the free Extreme Ownership Rundown newsletter, visit echelonfront.com.

Listen to this episode for concrete frameworks, real-world examples, and the “mindset for victory” that can get you through any season of change.