Planning Past Failure | Pushing Past Quitters Friday | JP Dinnell Podcast 068

Summary

JP Dinnell Podcast 068: Planning Past Failure | Pushing Past Quitters Friday

Hosts: JP Dinnell & Lucas Pinckard
Date: January 10, 2025

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Overview

In this episode, JP Dinnell and co-host Lucas Pinckard tackle the challenge of pushing past failure points, both in life and leadership, especially in the face of a new year and the inevitable temptation to quit. They explore the importance of honest self-assessment, building discipline through routines, learning from past failures, and the value of having strong personal and team alignment. Drawing from JP’s experience as a Navy SEAL, recent personal struggles, and examples from their work at Echelon Front, they deliver actionable insights on perseverance, planning beyond quitting, and intentionally building a legacy.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Cycles of Team Culture and Leadership

Timestamps: 04:00 – 11:45

• Navy SEAL Legacy & Hazing:
  JP recounts lessons learned from respected mentors like Steve Chira and the tension between tradition and progress, especially in onboarding "new guys" in the SEALs.
  • “He taught me a lot. He had a lot of patience. That guy had a lot of patience with us, which is impressive because most guys in the SEAL teams don't have a lot of patience towards the new guys.” – JP (04:49)
• Breaking Toxic Cycles:
  Culture of hazing can perpetuate unless strong leaders intervene to set higher standards. JP praises leaders who challenge status quo rituals that undermine competence.
  • “Comparison is the ultimate thief of joy.” – JP (25:37)

2. Honest Assessment — The Prerequisite for Growth

Timestamps: 24:00 – 26:42

• Facing Where You Really Are:
  Lucas shares personal vulnerability about family and financial goals falling short of expectations. JP encourages that honest self-evaluation, even if painful, is essential.
  • “I think the first thing you have to do, which you guys have done, is do a really good, thorough, honest assessment... you know where you’re at.” – JP (24:37)
• Comparison Dangers & Individual Journeys:
  Addressing how comparing struggles can demotivate, JP stresses: “Your issues are your issues, and they're real.” (25:10)

3. Flexibility in Planning & Execution

Timestamps: 27:00 – 33:38

• Expecting Change:
  Both hosts stress that annual assessments (or more frequent ones) are invaluable, but plans must remain flexible to accommodate unforeseen challenges.
  • “If you're flexible and you're expecting those changes to come, then when they do happen, it doesn't derail you, it doesn't throw you off. You're like, oh, cool, we actually expected this.” – JP (33:14)
• Applying Ownership to All Assignments:
  Even unwanted tasks present opportunities for growth if approached with the right attitude.

4. Routines, Discipline & Sustainable Success

Timestamps: 36:22 – 47:27

• Richness in Routine:
  Both discuss the importance of routines not as rigidity, but as scaffolding for creativity and spontaneous moments.
  • “You have to learn to find the richness in routine.” – Lucas (35:20)
• Why Most People Quit (75 Hard & Deaf Reset):
  They debate the virtues of 75 Hard and the Deaf Reset, noting the challenge is sticking with beneficial habits, not just completing a program.
  • “Do the work, win the prize. It's not rocket science. If you do the work, you'll win the prize. The thing is you have to do the work.” – JP (38:08)
• Tailoring Routines:
  Routines should be personalized and flexible — strict for some, fluid for others, but always intentional.

5. Alignment in Marriage & Teams

Timestamps: 29:59 – 31:54, 42:33 – 46:35

• Supportive Spouses:
  JP credits alignment with his wife, Amanda, as a key factor in years of business growth and handling the demands of travel.
  • “If you and your wife have alignment, then you can go accomplish anything, bro.” – JP (29:59)
• Communication Evolves Through Challenge:
  Lucas reflects on how discipline-focused challenges improved communication and understanding with his wife.
  • “What a terrible communicator I am sometimes when it comes to the person that I should be communicating with the most... That was a big, nasty wake up call.” – Lucas (46:14)

6. Planning Past the Points of Failure

Timestamps: 55:27 – 58:56

• Podcasting Milestones & Beyond:
  They analogize “Quitters Friday” and podcast episode milestones with common failure points in life projects: most podcasts die after episode 3, then after three years—so set milestones way beyond those points.
  • “If the failure point is three episodes, then start planning episode five so that you've got something to look forward to. If the failure point is three years, then let's look at what we're going to do on episode 153.” – Lucas (58:05)
• Legacy Building:
  JP urges listeners to recognize they're all building a legacy — the question is whether it's a good one.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Leadership Culture:
  “When you're a new guy, you're a new guy... You're diminishing the accomplishments, right?” – Lucas (10:44)
• On Taking Responsibility:
  “Your business isn't where it needs to be. What are you gonna do about it? Are you going to let it keep going the same course? Are you gonna make adjustments?... Are you gonna quit, or are you gonna double?” – JP (25:07)
• On Routines Enabling Spontaneity:
  "You can't do something that's spontaneous unless you have structure. The whole idea of spontaneity is that it gets you out of the structure that you have." – Lucas (53:12)
• On Pushing Through Failure Points:
  “Learn to not just find the richness in routine, but think beyond the failure points.” – Lucas (57:44)
• On Legacy:
  “Every single one of you, myself included, we are all leaving a legacy. So the thing I'll ask you is what type of legacy are you leaving?" – JP (66:50)

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Practical Takeaways

• Self-Assessment:
  Conduct honest self-assessment regularly — not just yearly.
• Set Clear, Flexible Plans:
  Plan ahead, but anticipate that things will change, and be ready to adapt.
• Build and Maintain Discipline:
  Find routines that work for you and stick to them, but allow room to pivot as new needs arise.
• Communicate & Align with Your Team/Family:
  Strong alignment and open communication, especially with those closest to you, provide the foundation for enduring through tough seasons.
• Think Beyond the Obvious Failure Point:
  Set milestones and plan implications beyond the “standard” quitting points.
• Reflect on Accomplishments:
  After every challenge or program (like 75 Hard), identify what you want to keep, rather than just moving on.
• Legacy Mindset:
  Be intentional; your choices are shaping your legacy every day.

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Key Timestamps

• SEAL Team culture & mentorship: 04:00 – 11:45
• The importance of honest assessment: 24:00 – 26:42
• Flexibility and the evolving plan: 27:00 – 33:38
• Routines, discipline, and sustainable change: 36:22 – 47:27
• Aligning with your spouse & family: 29:59 – 31:54; 42:33 – 46:35
• Planning beyond failure points: 55:27 – 58:56
• Closing legacy challenge: 66:50 – end

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Tone & Style

Authentic, conversational, and direct, rich with practical wisdom, humility, and candid personal stories.

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Summary prepared for listeners wanting the actionable wisdom and best insights from JP Dinnell Podcast 068 – skip the intros, outros, and ads, and dig straight into the substance of what keeps winners going long after most people have quit.

Transcript

[A]

Good morning. This is the JP Donnell podcast, episode 68. I am JP Donnell, and as always, I have Lucas with me. What's up, buddy?

[B]

What's going on, punkin? Happy New Year.

[A]

I know. How are you doing, man?

[B]

I'm old, fat and cranky and it's serving me well.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

Getting ready for quitters Friday, baby. I am, I am. So look, I've already had my conversation with Jonathan Montgomery and let him know that our mutual acquaintance Max Planck probably off the path and we gotta. We gotta have a conversation with him.

[C]

But.

[B]

Yeah, good doing. Doing well.

[A]

Good. Awesome. So today is Amanda and I's anniversary.

[B]

Congratulations.

[A]

I know, man. Let's go.

[B]

What is this?

[A]

13?

[B]

13? Yeah. Okay, so where do you. When do you start counting? Do you start from, like, when you dated or do you start from.

[A]

Ours is our anniversary. So this is our wedding anniversary, which is also the same anniversary of when we first met and talked.

[B]

And I know you. You are the. The master of consolidation when it comes to this stuff. It is a.

[A]

So that would be 14 years if.

[B]

We'Re looking for that.

[A]

Right on. Yeah. So I think was last year or two years ago, I made a anniversary post and I had mixed up those numbers in my head. I was like, I mean, she didn't care. I mean, it was, you know, an anniversary post, but, you know, and then it's funny because we'll joke and people anniversary in Amanda's, like, which anniversary? Because, you know, we got divorced and then remarried.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Oh, that's true. Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

And we had actually talked about getting remarried on the same.

[B]

Just keep it all together.

[A]

Keep it on that same day, but we didn't. That was in April, so.

[B]

Right on.

[A]

Yeah, we actually were out in. Out in Vegas. I was out there on a work trip and was one of my clients. I've told you about them. They. When they go do their events, they do them at, like, really, really, really nice places.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's typically all. It's crazy, man. It's always fallen on a week that I don't have, like, other gigs. It's always usually like. Yeah, it's weird. It happens every single time.

[B]

That's cool.

[A]

Every single time. And so, yeah, they go to this really nice place down in. In Key west. And where. It's down south of Key west. And then there's like this little island that you have to take a little boat ferry to get to where we stay.

[B]

To the island that they stay at.

[A]

Yes. And so every time.

[B]

That sounds terrible.

[A]

I know, it's horrible.

[B]

I would totally not be.

[A]

Ever heard of Sea island in Georgia? Check it out.

[B]

I'm going to Google it right now.

[A]

Yeah, it's. It's beautiful. And so, anyways, I was doing an event with one of their teams in Vegas, and they're awesome. They're like, hey, you know, if you want to come out and bring your wife out with you for the week, we just need you speaking this day, but we'll put you up the whole week. And it was at the Four Seasons in Vegas, and they're like, all your meals, everything. Hotel meals, drinks, for the whole week for you and your wife, if you can come and work with us on Wednesday. And so we flew out there on Sunday, and we were there Sunday to Sunday to Friday.

[B]

That's pretty freaking awesome, man. Dude, it was awesome.

[A]

So when we were out there, met up with one of my really good buddies, one of my best friends from the SEAL team, Steve Chira. Um, he's an older guy. He was an older guy when I checked into the platoon.

[B]

What does that mean? Because we've talked about what you thought of as old guys whenever you checked into the platoon, and so many of those are numbers now that I'm like, nah, it's not old.

[A]

Yeah, he wasn't old, but it's a phrase that we would use in the teams. Because he had more platoons than you.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So he was an older guy. Yeah. Steve Travis, he was actually in the Buds234 documentary that they put on Discovery Channel.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Isn't that the one that Adelaide K. Like, that's the one that he watched that, like, got him fired up about becoming a seal.

[A]

Why am I drawing a blank on this? Maybe.

[C]

I don't know.

[B]

I think it was because. Yeah, because he was talking about, you know, there was a buzz documentary, and he. He watched it, like, a. A bunch of times, and it got him all fired up for it.

[A]

That's awesome. Yeah. But, yeah, so Steve was in that documentary, and then he was in my platoon. Awesome. Awesome. Dude. When I was first on Jocko's podcast, I actually talked about Steve because I was like, there's this, like, this big, massive Native American and with the guys, and, like, he's just one of those guys. He's just a big. Just strong, athletic. He looked like what you would visualize as, like, a seal. And I was like, I hope that guy's in my platoon.

[B]

Like, you just want who you want to be.

[A]

Yeah. The guy you want to be working with. And he was. And, man, he was such Such a good teammate. He taught me a lot. He had a lot of patience. That guy had a lot of patience with us, which is impressive because most guys in the SEAL teams don't have a lot of patience towards the new guys.

[C]

Yeah, they don't.

[A]

And which they should have more because if you look at it from a coaching and mentoring legacy type of mindset, you should definitely have a little more patience. And. But there is also the aspect of, like, you got to add some pressure and stress in the SEAL teams to see how guys are going to perform.

[B]

And there's also.

[A]

We're not Boy Scouts, you know, so we need guys to be. Yeah. Pushed.

[B]

I. I wonder. Personal question here coming from. From the left side of the room.

[A]

The ncc.

[B]

Yeah, from the ncc. Whoa.

[A]

Wow. I know. I knew you were going to say.

[B]

You know what, thank you 20, 25 for that. So I'm. I'm curious. You know, last year, one of the big things that I. I did as far as, like, my reading books was to really focus in and hone on, learn a lot about World War II. And there's a lot of the guys in that made it through that. Talk about, you know, after the first couple of months, they didn't bother to learn the new guys names until they had. They'd been there for, you know, a few weeks. And. And some of it was because of, you know, what we would now classify as, like, PTSD or. Or, you know, TBIs and those kind of things that they're dealing with. But there was another part that, like, they said that there were just so many guys that washed out that just like, we're getting up there and not just the guys that passed away, but just like, couldn't ever get to the front.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So is. Is that like a. A piece of it is like the washout rate that they knew that, like, hey, you know, this is it, or.

[A]

Yeah, no, yeah, you know, that's. That's a good question. But that's not.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

I mean, that's not what it's like.

[B]

Once you're in 2025 with good questions.

[A]

Man, I am on a roll. Yeah, we'll wait. We still have the rest of this episode.

[B]

One in a row.

[A]

No, because once you're in the SEAL teams, I mean, you're in the SEAL teams for the most part, unless you're just a complete. Just, you know, screw up and.

[B]

Because you would have already gone through sqt, right.

[A]

And now you're a new guy in the platoon. So I think, you know, part of that is just. I mean, you teach what you know.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And so when, if you were a new guy checking in and if you were treated like crap and you were hazed and abused and, you know, blah, blah, like once you get done, like, you can't wait to be in that position as well.

[C]

Right.

[A]

You know, I know saying it that way seems really bad, but there are guys literally that were like, I cannot wait until I'm not a new guy.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Because then now they had the chance to do the same thing. And so unfortunately, there can be some of that. That's not a common thing.

[B]

Do you think that maybe some of that was passed down by the. The Vietnam era guys? Because those are the things that they saw and that just became part of the culture.

[A]

Absolutely. It's just all passed down. It's like one to the next, the next and the next and next. And you could tell, you know, there are some platoons that didn't do it, and guess what? Their platoon chief didn't allow it. Sean Glass talked about this on his most recent episode with Jocko. And they did a phenomenal job. He was breaking down stuff from the teams. And one of the things is one of the platoons in their. In their troop wanted was making the guys wear pink tridents on their uniform. And so instead of like the regular Velcro patch trident, as new guys, they were making them all. And Sean's like, no, absolutely not.

[B]

It wasn't a breast cancer awareness trident.

[A]

Nope. No, it was not. And it was like as a. Because they're new guys. And so the thing that they used to do in the teams is like, you would go through sqt. I'm sorry, you go through buds, you check into the SEAL teams. As a new guy, you don't have your trident.

[C]

Right.

[A]

And so that's part of your review process is at the SEAL team with your platoon. Oh, wow. Yeah. You talk about a different level of stress. No, Joe. I mean, and they're teaching you all the things and then you do a Trident review board and then you would.

[B]

Get your trident and that sounds.

[A]

It's awesome.

[B]

The Trident review board sounds super cool.

[A]

It sounds awesome. And I think it's a pretty cool thing. But I will say the problem with that is your. That was also dependent upon the platoon and tasking that you were a part of. So if you didn't have really good leadership or really good guys that weren't very knowledgeable teaching you stuff, like you can get a watered down version of a team guy because there was no I mean, there's standards and baselines, but do you understand what I'm saying? There was no, like, no, like, hey, this is what we're doing universally through training.

[C]

Right.

[A]

The creation of sqt, the SEAL qualification training, was incredible. And it continues to get better and better and better. I mean, because. Especially because you have more experience, guys that are training it and leading it. And so Sean's whole thing. And I'll send you the podcast, you'll really, really, really like it. Sean's whole thing is, like, the reason why he was so upset about it was the whole, like, thought process of, like, okay, so you're saying that these guys that put them through training, that qualified them, that gave them tridents, their word doesn't. Isn't enough guys was like, legitimate combat experience.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

More combat experience than some of these other guys. You're saying that his word doesn't mean anything because what you have, you're on your second platoon, and this guy's done seven platoons.

[C]

Right.

[A]

Do you understand? Like that? And so, yeah, taking away from, you know, a legitimate command that put guys through training, that qualified them, that said, hey, you're good to go into the SEAL teams. Here's your trident, like, pinned it on their chest. And then now they're getting into a platoon and they're saying, nope, you have to wear a pink trident. Sean was pissed.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And when Sean was explaining all this, I was like, on Team Sean as well.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because that's ridiculous. When you're a new guy, you're a new guy. You know, I couldn't imagine us have doing that to. To Mikey or Mark or Ryan Jobe or any of the other new guys.

[B]

You're diminishing the accomplishments, right?

[A]

Yep. Yeah. And. But that's the reason. But, yes, you are. What they didn't recognize is that's legitimate accomplishment graduating from sqt. Yeah. Now, hey, you're still a new guy. So, hey, you got a lot to learn.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Mouth shut, eyes open, ears open, listen, take notes, be a hard worker, be coachable, be teachable, take criticism, you know, all those things and understand that guys are just going to mess with you because that's what we do in the SEAL team. It's just part of, like, seeing how you can handle it. You know, there's a saying, hard times create hard men. Hard men create good times. Good times create weak men. Weak men created hard times.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

That is a legitimate thing. It's a vicious cycle. And the SEAL teams were like, no, we're not going to create weak men. We're not going to create un people that are not capable of taking criticism, people that are not capable of working hard, that, you know, so there has to be.

[B]

Because your enemy is going to have done all of those things.

[A]

Yeah, it's the same thing. Like in business and anything else, like, you actually have to be able to put in the work, take criticism, take feedback, make adjustments. You know what I mean? Like, and the SEAL team's like, we're creating men that are going to go to war. You can take that same mindset and apply it to being a pastor, to being a business owner.

[B]

I literally talked about this yesterday.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So yesterday I got the opportunity to speak at Charisma Church in the afternoon. They're celebrating. It's a church plant that's celebrating their three year anniversary. And that is, that's a huge milestone for any organization because most fizzle out before they hit the three year mark.

[C]

Right.

[B]

So this was a big thing and they brought in a bunch of pastors and I had the honor to be the one giving the sermon.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Super, super imposter syndrome for me yesterday. There's all these guys who like PhDs that have been really instrumental in this. And I've known Pastor Leslie for a couple of months and he's like, man, I really want you to come in and speak. And I'm looking at all these guys that I have tremendous respect for that are sitting on the front row and they're like, hey, we want you to sit here and like, fricking, no, I need to be like, was back.

[A]

But amazing.

[B]

But we did, we talked about this. Exactly. Is that there are so many pastors in particular that are not competitive and that are weak. And, you know, this one sort of portrayal of the, the modern pastor that comes up a lot is a guy who's a little effeminate. He's got kind of a lisp, and he's like, you know, just come to church with us and we'll talk about Jesus. I'm like, I, I hate that that's the caricature that we've become. Because if, if you show me a pastor that's not competitive, then I will show you a pastor that's going to lose his flock.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And not because he isn't a good leader, but because he's going to, to lose the truth of the gospel somewhere along the lines. And he's going to lead them astray because he doesn't understand that the enemy that we're up against has been doing this for millennia.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That he's smarter than us. He's. He's funnier. He's more fun. He's all of these things that we want to be. The only thing that we have to stand on is this truth. And if we're not competitive, if we're just like, nope, this is the good church, and we're going to love everybody, and everything's going to be great. If we don't have that competitive instinct.

[A]

Anybody.

[B]

Yeah. Then. Then we've already lost.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And. And that was one of the things. Like, if you. If you show me, if I end up in a place where I'm, like, conversing with a weak pastor, my immediate thing, the competitive thing that sparks at me is like, I'm going to take this dude's flock. No, because you're gonna. You're gonna mess them up.

[A]

Yeah. You're gonna ruin them.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And. And that's. It sounds like that's the same type of mentality, even more so that you guys had.

[A]

Like, well, yeah, we had to do this. Yeah, we had to. And so, you know, understand, like, I hope someone's not listening and hearing what I'm not saying. Like, I think, yeah, you should be, you know, tough with your newer people because you care about them. You should have high standards. You should train them, you should equip them. But there was, like, sometimes there's this imbalance there where guys would take it too far. And I just loved, you know, Sean's episode where he was just like, no, he's like, you're telling me, like, that these guys, like, legitimate combat veterans who are the gatekeepers to our community, Their word means nothing to you? Yeah, no, we're not doing that.

[B]

What do you think that does in. Not what. What Sean says, like, reverse just a little bit. What does that do to the rest of the guys in the platoon? Like, if they. Okay, so tomorrow that platoon is called into a war zone and they're deployed, is there something in the back of their minds where they look at the guy that's across from them and they see the pink trident and they start to think that they're not capable?

[A]

I mean, maybe subconsciously there could be. Now, obviously, like, if you're like, guys are getting deployed, like, they're not going to wear that overseas.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But they're just making them wear it in training as kind of just. Just a new guy hazing type of thing.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But does it. I mean, on some level, like, does it affect that not. Not just the pink trident, but the. The fact that now you've put them in another part of the community. They're not just the new guy anymore, but yeah, making it less. I don't know, maybe I'm over now.

[A]

Yeah. I don't know. That's why I just keep saying it could be because I don't know.

[B]

Yeah, then I think but even more reason to not.

[A]

Yeah, but why would you like, what's the point? What, what are you accomplishing? You know, there was a thing for a while in the SEAL teams that when guys would check in from SQT and this was like when SQT first got stood up and they went over there, older guys were taking, they're like, hey, you know, turn in your tritons. You got to turn in your tridents until like, you know, we give them back to you. And they take their tridents, they would paint them blue and put them in a bird cage as it could. Blue in the military is inert. So if you have like a blue barrel on a gun or blue anything, it's inert. So they're saying that their tridents were inert and they would keep them in a bird cage, which is kind of funny because the bird. Until they got back. And that dude, there was guys that lost their minds over that.

[B]

Really.

[A]

SQT instructors. The captain that ran NSW training Command like that BUDS and sqt, when he found out that was happening, he went to the commands and talk to the commanding. Oh yeah. I mean because you got to think about, he's the one running that training saying hey, these guys are qualified. They are trained, equipped and qualified to wear a trident on their uniform and check in and SEAL teams as a new guy. And now there's some dude who's done two platoons to a non combat zone is saying you don't deserve.

[B]

No, you're not.

[A]

So there's a little bit of, that's.

[B]

That'S a whole lot of like showing a lack of trust and respect in the guys that, that sent him through.

[A]

Yep. And, and that's also just a prime example of just people taking things way too far.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Took it way too far. Hey, like I said, I was, I've said it before, I was, Hayes is the new guy. I was messed with. But I also had good old guys like Steve, Chira and, and Benny and Pepper and a few other guys that know if I can say their name or they want me to. But they treated us with respect. Now we got tuned up.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

When we messed up and I've had a few counseling sessions from those guys where it was well deserved because my attitude was not where it needed to be.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

You know, but it's just. It's just part of it. You know, one of them. You know, I remember one of them is because I was having a bad attitude and I was frustrated with what we were doing overseas on my first deployment. And, you know, they brought me outside, sat me down in the vehicle, just me and them in there. I'm sitting in the passenger seat, there's someone in the driver's seat and guy sitting behind me. And so the message was very clear that my attitude needed to change.

[B]

Hey, buddy, things are going to be okay. Is that kind of how it went?

[C]

Yep, Yep.

[A]

Pretty close. And, you know, they made it very clear that my attitude needed to change. And to the point where like, hey, if you don't want to be here, we can send you home. I was like. And it wasn't that I didn't want to be there. I was just mad you wanted another assignment.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I want to be kicking indoors doing, you know, the CQC missions that, you know, guys are doing and, you know, they're out there doing these capture kill missions, do. Run a CQC through buildings and complexes and stuff. And we're doing personal security for the.

[B]

Was Leif on that same detail with you or. Or a similar one?

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

As a whole. But not.

[B]

Not with. Not in your group.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because I hadn't at this past muster, Jocko mentioned that, and I was like, were. Were you guys with. I didn't know if you guys were there on that.

[A]

We deployed together. He was at Team 5, I was at Team 3, but we deployed together.

[C]

Right.

[A]

And Team 5 guys were doing PSD and we were. Yeah.

[B]

So that's. That's wild.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. There's a little flip flop on that deployment because they did a thing called a rip back in the day. And for the first three months of our deployment, we went to Guam and then from Guam. I mean, when we're in Guam, we were doing training the whole time.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And then from there we would go. We went to Thailand and Okinawa and a few other places that do training. And then we had guys in the Philippines and then. So that was the first three months. And then we went over to Iraq and the guys that were in Iraq flip flopped and came back and really? Okay. And so it was like this weird Manning thing with guys from Team 3 and Team 5 all deploying at the same time. And so it was like. It was just with Manning and a lot of things that were like, mixed up.

[B]

Are there, like. So in a situation like that, I get the. The one team, one fight thing. Yeah, 100%. Are there rivalries between the different teams, or is there just. Is there so much commingling because you guys get moved around to different teams and. And that kind of thing. That. There's not that. Because I know that there are definitely rivalries, like, between.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Delta and Charlie, Delta Platoon and Charlie Platoon, that there were some friendly rivalries there and that kind of thing. Is it the same type of thing, or is it, you know, more like because you guys are competing for assignments and that kind of stuff, that it's a. It's more amped up.

[A]

Sometimes.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And I think that was also a direct reflection of the leadership. Right. If, you know, there was really good. We had really good leaders in the teams. We also had some Turks.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, we've talked about definitely that.

[A]

But we had really good leadership as a whole in the SEAL teams. And when you have good leadership, that. That is a. That will reflect amongst your guys. Right. And so while there was times of some legitimate competition, for the most part, it was like, hey, bro, like, we're in the teams, and you. You knew the guys. You knew the guys because you're at the command together, and it's very, very rare for guys to not want to go do stuff with other guys.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So I think there's a little balance of that.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That makes sense.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I mean, it's. It's just interdepartmental stuff. Right. Like, it's. It's odd to think about it in that way when it's. When you're talking about what you guys did versus sales versus the mailroom.

[A]

But there is.

[B]

You know, there's some of that. So that does. That does kind of translate, especially when it comes to, you know, the cooperation between the leadership. As long as they remember that, you know, you guys are working together, that it is one team, one fight, one mission, all of that stuff, that. That changes pretty dramatically.

[A]

And it. That's why it just takes somebody reminding you of that.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And there. Sometimes it came from the leadership, say, sometimes it came from somebody on a second platoon where it's like, hey, knucklehead, like, we're all the same team. Like, we need their help, they need our help, or whatever it is. So we saw that a lot on that. That deployment because there was a lot of intermingling of the different groups that were doing the personal security, because sometimes they would all be meeting together.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And so, I mean, we're, we're, you know, it's the, it's the top elected officials there in Iraq that we're keeping safe. So there's a lot of mixing and matching of, hey, this guy's going over to his, his compound. Okay, cool. Hey, reach out to that advent team. Like it's their building that, you know, see if they can do the Avon for us before we show up. Because they're already there. Can they leave somebody? So there'd be a lot of that and it was just a lot of back and forth support for each other.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So.

[B]

So I, I want to talk a little bit about this now that we've opened up the door there, you know, with the new year comes a lot of disappointments because people are experiencing, like, failure or maybe they're experiencing, like, change.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they're not excited about where they're at for 2025. I'll, I'll share something a little personal is my, my wife and I are kind of gearing up. We're talking about our goals for our family, our finances, and those kind of things. And then we're looking at it and projecting out and we're, we're on pace for where we want to be, but we're a little behind from where we thought we could be, you know, And.

[A]

I've been there in business, bro.

[B]

Yeah. Like, those things happen. Right. So with this first appointment, you obviously, you were doing something that you didn't want to do. You had some guys who came and counseled you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

How did your shift in attitude work? And how do you coach people to have a similar shift in attitude so that you can be effective where you're at so that maybe this time next year or in three months from now, we can look and say, hey, actually we're not just on pace for our long term strategic goals like we have been, but now we're at a better spot.

[A]

Yeah. So I think the first thing you have to do, which you guys have done, is do a really good, thorough, honest assessment.

[B]

It sucks.

[A]

Yeah, it does.

[B]

It does. Yeah. Kicking the squares.

[A]

I will challenge you is. You can also say it's awesome.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Because. And I know you think that way.

[C]

Good.

[B]

Now we know where to improve.

[C]

Right.

[A]

Exactly. Yeah. You know where you're at. And also if you're to compare your assessment to somebody else's assessment, it could be way better.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

It can also be way worse.

[C]

Right.

[A]

That's why you got to be careful.

[B]

Comparing you are where you are. Just accept that. And Move.

[A]

One of the things that, you know, I've said at Pursuit a few times, the guys. Because, you know, they'll be, you know, sharing some of their stuff, and they're like, oh, wow. I. Man, that's nothing compared to what Lucas just shared my stuff. I don't even want to talk about it. Your issues are your issues, and they're real. It doesn't mean. Just because you have way worse issues than I do doesn't mean that my issues aren't real to me.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And so you have to be careful, because comparison is the ultimate thief of joy.

[B]

100%.

[A]

And so you do the assessment. You know where you're at. Okay, cool. I'm not where I want to be. I'm not happy with it. What are you gonna do about it?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's what's cool, is because you can ask yourself, what are you gonna do about it? Hey, your business isn't where it needs to be. What are you gonna do about it? Are you gonna let it keep going the same course? Are you gonna make adjustments? Are you gonna quit, or are you gonna double? You know what I mean? Like, you have all these different options. And so for you guys, you have the ability to say, okay, this is where we're at this. We were hoping we'd be here, but we're not. We're here. Okay. What changes do I need to make to get me caught up and back on pace or caught up and ahead of pace or in doing that honest assessment? Okay, we're not where we want to be. Okay. We make these changes. We put in the extra work, the effort, whatever it is. And this is. This is where we're at.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, hey, this is the trajectory that we have. There's no changing it. No. We know that God can open doors and just crazy beyond what we could.

[B]

Ever think or imagine. I believe is how it's stated.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yes. 100%. So we know that's always there.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Josh and I actually were just talking about that the other. We've. He's mentioned that multiple times when we talk about stuff for on the path, and we're looking at, like, projections and stuff like that and just kind of mapping out the year. And he said, but you know what? You never know what God has in store for us. And I just. Every time, I'm like, yeah, absolutely. Because when I think back to, like, eight and a half years ago, where I was at and just trying to like, figure out what the next steps were, and then also the opportunity of Echelon front came about and then you look at what that first year did and then everything else compounding upon itself from there. It's. It's pretty incredible what, what God can do. I know you're looking up a verse.

[B]

Yeah, no, it's the, it's that one. It's Ephesians 3:20. Not a him who is able to do above and beyond all that we ask or think according to the power that works in us. So not just like beyond what we're able to, to know, to ask, but even beyond what, like what we can think. Like those things can, can be adjusted. You know, you talk about the, the struggle and we've talked about your journey a couple of times. One of the things that I always encourage people with whenever they talk about your success is like to remember that, you know, there was a point where y' all were living in a, in a one bedroom apartment and trying to make it work.

[A]

Yeah, it was. Well, it wasn't a one bedroom apartment. Sorry. It was a small two bedroom house in Mississippi.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah, there we go.

[A]

Where Aiden was in his little bunk bed and the girls were on twin on. I'm sorry, the girls were on a queen mattress on the floor in the corner because we couldn't put another bed in there. Yeah, they had, there's one dresser in there for them. Share all their stuff. Amanda and I were in our small room. The office that we had was in the kitchen. So we didn't have a kitchen where we actually sat down and ate dinner. It was in the living room. And most of the time it was going to the in laws to, you.

[B]

Know, and so to eat or to help.

[A]

Yeah, whatever. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And then you know me bring in whatever leftovers Marco's pizza's had. Like, oh, the message of the pizza we're throwing away, I'm like, oh no, we'll hold it right there, you know.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, put it on the shelf just in case somebody wants that one.

[A]

Yeah. Just be like, this is crazy, man. But yeah, I mean, yeah, you're, you're, you're spot on. I mean everybody, it's easy. And I'm not, I don't. I know you, you weren't saying like we're successful and I don't look at us as being like successful. But it's easier when you look at other people, like just to compare their current state to your current state and not understand like all the work that's needed to put in there.

[C]

100.

[A]

That's the thing is like Most people aren't willing to put in the work and, like, the actual hard work. And so, you know, that's. That's another aspect of it is you and your wife looking at it and saying, okay, cool. This is where we're at. This is where we want to be. And then if you and your wife have alignment, then you can go accomplish anything, bro.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Amanda and I have had alignment since day one on echelon front.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

Bro, you got to think about that, doing this eight years. Not once has Amanda ever complained about me leaving for a work trip.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Not once has she ever called me on a work trip complaining about me being gone. She. She's like, when things have gone wrong at the house, she's never called me to complain about things going wrong at the house.

[B]

You know, that's wild, dude.

[A]

Not once. Now, I'll learn about those things in conversations because we talk about it, but I'm telling you, not once has she ever called me and like, hey, we got an emergency.

[B]

I need you to come back, or whatever.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Because she knows I can't.

[C]

Yeah, right.

[A]

And also, she's never done that to try to make me feel bad.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, ever.

[B]

Dude, that's a massive thing.

[C]

Right?

[A]

Your.

[B]

Your spouse in particular has. And not just like your spouse. I'm saying a person's about. Yeah, they. They have the power to make you or break you in ways that no one else does. And that's the necessity of that. That relationship. Right. Is that they should have that, or else you're not being vulnerable. You're not communicating well enough, whatever that is. Yeah, but the amount of guilt and shame that somebody can throw on to their spouse because, like, yeah, hey, you're helping us. Maybe you' us reach our financial goals, but you know what? You weren't here, and so that makes, you know, everything that you did worthless now. And that, dude, that kind of guilt and shame can crush somebody. And having that alignment, like, hey, this is what we're doing. This is why we're doing is such a. Such a powerful thing. Yeah, you're right about that.

[A]

So, yeah, I would. I mean, to put a bow on what you asked, or we can keep peeling back the players. Whatever you want, man. I think it's awesome that you guys did the assessment. Right? You know where you're at. You know where you want to be. And here's the cool thing about doing these things regularly. I don't think you should do them once a year now if you only do it once a year. Cool.

[C]

Awesome.

[A]

At Least you're doing it. I think it's something that people need to be better at sitting down, doing. And this is something Amanda and I need to get better at is like doing it more frequently. But you also have to understand, like, okay, so it's January. You, you're like, hey, this is where we're at. This is where we want to be. This is what we're going to do. Boom. And you move forward. Things are going to change. Yep, things are going to change. Whether it's good or bad. I don't know.

[B]

We're indifferent, right?

[A]

Yes, they're going to change, but things are going to change. And now how that affects your guys progress, we don't know. You don't know that yet. You're never going to know. The other thing is your goals might change, man.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

In six months you might be like, hey, you know what?

[B]

Like, these were dumb goals.

[A]

I don't want to do this. Or you're like, those weren't big enough.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Actually I want Boom. Right. So I think, I think coming up with a plan is critical. Working your plan is critical.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And when I say working, I mean working your butt off to like, go get it done. Not expecting anybody else to do it. Not expecting handouts, you know, like actually going out there and like, getting it done. But being flexible. You have to be flexible.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And if you're flexible and you're expecting those changes to come, then when they do happen, it doesn't derail you, it doesn't throw you off. You're like, oh, cool, we actually expected this. Or hey, this is a shift and this is a change. And understanding that sometimes, like we say the enemy gets a vote.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

There are going to be things that happen that you had no control over.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I think that that's a really important thing too, for, for people to get like, okay, so you've, you've ended up in a situation where like, you, you got an assignment that you didn't want, but when you start to take ownership of it, then you can actually not. I won't say that you'll necessarily always have fun doing it, but you can make it satisfying.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

When you know, like, hey, you know what? If I do this well, this is how I get to do the things that I do want to do. If I do this well, then this is how we're going to, you know, this is how I'm able to reach and accomplish those goals. And reframing those things a lot of times, I think is such an important thing. You Know, I was having a friend of mine, Dr. Chris Respis, was talking to me and then helping me with, you know, refining some of my skill set. And one of the things he encouraged me on, he's like, man, you're great at, like, pivoting in the moment, right? Your life experience and all of those things have taught you how to fly by the seat of your pants in tremendous ways. And he's like, I really admire that about you. And I was like, all right. He goes, but you have to learn to find the richness in routine. And I think when you talk about being disciplined but not rigid, right? Like they talk about in dichotomy, leadership, you kind of were getting to that a second ago. It's. That is that thing that flexibility I end up on so often. On the other side of that, I love being thrown into a group and they're like, hey, you guys don't know each other. There's nothing. There's a mission that you need to accomplish. We need to do that. And those are the situations that, for my natural leadership style that I thrive on, like, getting everybody together, building some quick relationships, rallying everybody, figuring out what strengths and weaknesses are, sending out the team, you know, helping everybody to get something done. Which is why events are such a natural thing for me, because as an extrovert, like, hey, here's a group of 20 volunteers who wants to get something done. They don't know each other, but we're here united for a common purpose. And I'm like, freaking, yeah, let's go get it right the day to day. Those are the things that I struggle with. And I think that that's why stuff like the deaf reset and stuff like what, you know, you've really encouraged as far as, like, making sure that you're hitting those. Those benchmarks and the consistent reassessment that there's. There's some richness in those routines. That's something that you teach all the time, right? When you're talking about the OODA loop or when you're talking about the. What is it that you guys call the echelon front? You guys don't call it the leadership. Is it the leadership?

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

The EO loop is learning to consistently go back and to do all of these routines in a new year, or as we're trying to re establish ourselves, or as we've done an honest self assessment. Right. How important are those routines to us, you know, accomplishing success? And, you know, we've talked about different definitions of success, but let's Just say for, for success towards accomplishing a specific goal that we've set up.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, how important are those running those routines and accomplishing those kind of accomplishing missions and goals?

[A]

I think they're critical because I look at it from a couple different aspects. Okay, I want to lose 10 more pounds.

[B]

Okay, like, is that like a legit thing that you're saying you want to lose 10 more pounds?

[A]

It's close to it, yeah. Because I'm hovering right around the 215, 217 range. I keep going back and forth between there. You know, if I could lose 10 more pounds to be down around the 205 range, like, okay, cool.

[B]

Going light heavyweight, huh?

[A]

Yeah, man. Come on, baby. And so in order for me to do that, I have to have a routine and be disciplined with my eating habits and exercise. I have to. Because if I'm not disciplined with my eating habits, if I'm not following, you know, the plan that I have through first in nutrition, I'm going to fail at losing 10 pounds. I'm not just going to lose 10 pounds because I, because I'm able to, I do that because I'm able to eat properly and I'm able to exercise. I'm putting in the work. That's the thing, like, you know, that's what I love that Jonathan Ann say, like, do the work, win the price.

[B]

So simple.

[A]

It's not rocket science. If you do the work, you'll win the prize. The thing is you have to do the work. Yeah, that's the problem. People don't want to do the work. They just want the easy solutions and they're not willing to put in the work. And to me, routines are absolutely critical when it comes to doing the work because you have to have structure to get your day done. You know, it's just like it would be like if my dad went out on a job site, was just like, ah, you know, I'm just going to work on this today and come and the next day like, oh, maybe want to do. No, there's a, there's a routine, there's a plan, there's a, there's a schedule. There's a structure and people need structure. They need schedules, they need routines. Now, there are some people that need it to be super strict and rigid. There are some people that it can be pretty loose and flowing and they, those are two different extremes. Most people, we need to be something living in the middle. I'm sorry, in the middle, in the middle of that realm. And that's hey, you have your routine, you have a structure. You're sticking to your schedule. Boom, you're gonna go accomplish that. That's what was, like, beautiful. About 75 hard.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

As you knew what you had to do. You know, I was watching a video. Make it easy over time. It does. But, yeah, you're right, it didn't. You know, it's. It's funny. I was watching a video, and this guy, he was talking about 75 hard, and he's like, yeah, everybody. Everybody I talked to. Now, this is this guy's perspective, whether this is true or not. But again, right. Allegedly, I'm gonna believe him. Allegedly saying that. Everybody he talked to said it was phenomenal. It reset, like, all these things in their life.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

He goes, so you found the answer, yet you stopped doing it? Because 75 days was done. I was like, oh, that's interesting, because I never really thought of it that way, because most of the people I talked to that did 75 hard were like, there's a game changer. It changed my health, it changed my family, my finances, you know, everything else like that. You know, I even had, you know, I knew somebody that one time when they did 75 hard. They're like, anytime I hit a major milestone or need to hit a major milestone, I'm going to do 75 hard because it's going to reset me.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

That forced implementation of discipline, but yet.

[A]

They'Ve never done it again because they don't want to do the work because they recognize how hard it is.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And. Which is unique because I'm like, wait.

[B]

It'S in the name.

[A]

Yeah. But you also at one point said you knew the benefits of doing 75 hard is it gave you all these things. It refocused you, you know?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

But. So I think there should be. There should be a hybrid that you're able to create for yourself.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't think most people can or will or want to do 75 hard nonstop, but you should. But. Okay, what's. What's the takeaway from 75 hard? What were the takeaways for you from 75 hard?

[B]

Ouch. That was the first one. Right. Now, the. The biggest one was that I actually possess more discipline than I thought I did, and.

[A]

Oh, nice.

[C]

That's good.

[A]

So confidence.

[B]

Yeah, for sure. Is that, like, I. I can be disciplined if I want to do it. And it's not. It's not like, I didn't know that from, like, somewhere in the depths of my mind from, you know, competitions of bodybuilding where you've gotta. Yeah, you know, do whatever or competition prep or whatever. But that was, like, with a specific goal in mind. They're like, oh, I'm going to do this. I'm going to compete in this way. And then that's going to carry me to the next thing. With 75 hard, there is no. There's no trophy at the end of it. Right. There's no competition. It is as designed. Is it exercise and mental toughness? That's what it's designed for. And so it. It highlighted for me the fact that I could be that disciplined without there being some kind of prize at the end. The second thing was that it highlighted for me how much grace my wife has for me and how poor I am at communicating. Because if I didn't. If I didn't set my priorities right, if I wasn't at the gym first thing in the morning and I had to try to squeeze those two workouts in around, like, our schedule with the kids, there was a lot of those days, whenever that happened, where I wasn't talking to her about what I hadn't accomplished for. Maybe it was because I didn't want her to know. Maybe it's because I wasn't thinking about it, or maybe it's because I was just in my own head, like, no, I've got to do this.

[A]

Yeah, probably flow.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Depending on the day. You know which one of those things it was.

[A]

75 hard shame. When they're like, how's your day going?

[B]

You're like, sucks, great.

[A]

Yeah, everything's awesome. And then in your mind, you're like, I still have to read. I still have to drink. Oh, my gosh, how am I gonna do this? There's a few times where all of a sudden, like, you just. You get complacent. Not talking about you, but me.

[B]

Oh, I did.

[A]

I would get complacent and not do some of the things first thing in the. In the morning, kicking off the day, and all of a sudden you're playing catch up, bro. For me, for 75 hard, the thing that helped me is when I Woke up, immediate 20 to 32 ounces of water. I had to start consuming.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I don't drink a lot of water. So, yeah, we've.

[B]

We've talked about, like, this was both of our struggles, especially for me on Sundays, like, because I'm drinking coffee at church, and then we go out to dinner or, you know, go out to lunch with everybody, and I want a little cappuccino after lunch because I want to hang out with the people that we're there with and I talk to them and then, you know, three o' clock hits and I've had eight ounces of water and I'm like, oh my gosh.

[A]

And you just start pounding.

[B]

Yeah, that's it, right? And I'm like, I'm just gonna do this and I'm gonna stay close to. We got one bathroom. We're potty training a 2 year old. I'm gonna stay close to the back door because you know what, I can go find a tree. Me and the dog will go together, right? So, yeah, there were those, those things. But what, what really got me was when, you know, I put our kid down, I put Levi down and I came into the bedroom. Kirsten had just got. Scotty was three or four months old. She had just got done nursing him, she had put him back down. And she walks into the room and I'm putting on stuff so that I can go for a bike ride. And this was it. This was the time that we were going to have together that day. Like everything else had been there. And, you know, she just kissed me on the cheek and she was like, you know, have fun, be safe. I'll probably be asleep when you get back. My cool. No, no problem. The next day she talks to me and just like told me. And this is why I say, like, it, it really highlighted how much grace my wife has for me. She's talked to me about like, how inspiring it is that I'm like sticking to things and how much it has really shown her, you know, some things that maybe she needed to improve on, on her routine and to get some things in order. And, you know, she's so proud to be married to somebody who's able to stick to these goals. And she was like, you know, there is one thing I need you to do though, is when you're going to do stuff like that, like, let me know that, like, hey, you know, before you put Levi down, just let me know, hey, you know what, I'm a little bit behind on this. She goes, Because I do get my hopes up when you go do that. And I don't know that you haven't finished everything that like, oh, we're going to get some time together. And she's like, and it's not a big deal. But last night I was walking in, I saw in the baby monitor that he was down right as I was going to put Scotty down. And I was like, oh, we're gonna get some time to spend together. And she's like, and I know it's important and you know, obviously all of these things I really admire about it, but it would, it would help me set an expectation because I don't want my expectations to be something else. And I'm like, okay, so you're owning my mistake by telling me you want to do it for your expectation. And so it's one of those things that for me, like, that was a huge deal to improve my communication and like those little things. So like when I got home, I was like, hey, you know what? I got, I got a workout I need to do. Outdoor workout. Wasn't able to get it in or whatever. And she's like, hey, can we go for a walk as a family? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, let's go, let's go do that. That sounds like a way better use of our time together than me getting on the bike at one in the morning to try and get that last four. And there were still times when that happened.

[A]

Yeah, it's going to be right.

[B]

But yeah, the, the awareness of what, as a person whose profession is to communicate at. What a terrible communicator I am sometimes when it comes to the person that I should be communicating with the most. Yeah, that's. That was a big, nasty wake up call.

[A]

But that's hard.

[B]

But it's been, it hasn't been perfect since then, but it's been better.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And unless you're like we've talked about before, unless you're pushing yourself to do things that are outside of your comfort zone, you never make those improvements. That was an unexpected result from 75 hard. That's not in the book. If you read the book on mental toughness, he's not saying, oh, this is going to help you communicate better with your spouse because you're going to have to do stuff that sucks.

[A]

It's an incredible byproduct.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

For sure. And one that now, like, even when it comes to the day to day stuff, you know, that just that question, you know, and hey, what's tomorrow look like for you so that we can help each other set expectations for what, what that is. Dude, it's been, that's been stellar, dude.

[A]

That's awesome.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. So it would be cool. Like I'm obviously, I don't want, I'm not taking away from 75 hard. I think everybody should at least do 75 hard.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

It's one of those things where I'm like, you should do it. I think the important thing is once you do 75 hard is to do a reflection of, like, what did 75 hard do for you? Like what, like, what were your takeaways? What are you going to continue to implement into your life? Because if you do 75 hard and you do it correctly and you don't cut corners and you're not cheating yourself.

[B]

And you're taking your progress picture, then.

[A]

You'Ll actually have some takeaways that you can then, upon your reflection, assessment, decide what you're going to implement and make those changes. And I think that is also another key thing to like, the question you asked earlier is, all right, hey, are you doing things that are going to challenge you? And once you've completed those challenging tasks or during the journey of that challenging task, are you taking the time to do an assessment and then figure out what changes need to be made and what can you implement into your life?

[B]

Yeah, I do think so. I've been asked this question a lot the last several months, right. Is as people are getting ready to make their New Year's resolutions. You know, should I do 75 hard or should I do the deaf reset? And well, okay, so you can do both.

[C]

Right.

[B]

But I always ask, like, what's the intent? Is it to. Is it because you want to put yourself in a situation where you're in deep water and that you, you need to have an imposed discipline on you, whether it's the checklist or whatever to get you through the next two and a half months? Is it because you want that accomplishment, because you want to build mental toughness, then go 75 hard? If it's a lifestyle thing, you want to really change your lifestyle. I tell people Deaf Reset because the deaf reset is, it's scalable, you know something?

[A]

I mean, yeah, there are, there are a lot of people that have been doing the Deaf Reset every single day since it first rolled out.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So, and I mean, there's a reason in the execute journal, right, that it's got those things there, because that is doing, living a lifestyle where you, day in and day out, did the things in 75 hard over the course of six months or 12 months, like there, there is a point of diminishing return.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The Deaf Reset is completely sustainable. Hydrate. Well, what's that mean, you know, for you today? Right? You know, are you up before the enemy? Does that mean waking up at 4:30? Are you working third shift? And does that mean like noon is your. Before the end of it? Right. Did you get a workout in? Well, all right. With, you know, talking about the alignment and stuff. That I had to have with my wife is my workout, you know, today my gym doesn't open until 7am on Sundays. So that's a no go for me if I want a morning workout.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But I can roll out of bed and I can do 50 push ups, 50 sit ups, 50 air squats. That didn't take me 45 minutes. So it wouldn't check a box for 75 hard, but it took me 25 and. And now that checks the box for, you know, what I'm doing for the deaf reset. And so that's one of the reasons that I love this or you know, this program is because there's a scalability to it to where again you keep that thing up on your fridge or keep it on your desk or you know, a post it note in your, in your car, like wherever it is. You can do these things every day for the rest of your life and it will keep you disciplined. It has that richness in the routine that you can know what to do and then, and then move on from, from there. So yeah, I always ask the intent because I do think 75 heart is something that everybody should do once. Yeah, but.

[A]

And if you can make changes towards something that you do, the live hard program, the whole year long thing, like there are some people that have the ability to do that and continuously do it. That's awesome. I think there's, you know, it's like to your point, it's like what are you trying to accomplish?

[B]

Right.

[A]

What do you want to get done? Yeah, I do. There's one time during 75 hard I was doing my workout and I just wasn't. It's funny like afterwards Jocko's like, bro, you should could have just come on the late. On the call late. But in my mind like, no, you're. Yeah, but it was a team call. It wasn't like it. But so we were like. And there's like a few other people that ended up like showing up late because they're getting done with like other stuff or another call or whatever. But when I was doing my, my, my workout, which typically most of my workouts in 75 hard were these emoms that I had programmed for myself.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

Justin and I got together and we put together a bunch of different emoms that worked very well for me. And the results I get from emoms is. It's, it's weird, man. Yeah, it's really weird. But I love it. So anyways, I'm at like 43 minutes and I'm like, I'm sorry. I was at 42 minutes, because I remember I had three minutes left. That's why I mixed up the three in my brain. And I couldn't do those other three rounds because I was going to be late for the call.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And so, boom. Well, guess what? That workout didn't count, homie. I didn't cut those corners, you know, like, I didn't cut the corners.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So I get three workouts today.

[A]

Yep.

[C]

Yep. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. And so I did another. Now, obviously, it wasn't as intense because, you know, but yeah, yeah, you gotta.

[B]

Manage burnout and body and all that stuff.

[A]

That was fun. There's a few times I did that. A few times I'd be walking as I was reading to keep myself awake, because if I lay down and read, I was gonna fall asleep.

[C]

So, yep.

[A]

Yeah, I got put in the work, man.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

There is something to like, especially coming from a music background and working with creatives is we. We think that we're super spontaneous and we want to live these really spontaneous lives. And I was talking with a friend not too long ago, and he's like, man, I just couldn't. I couldn't do the workout stuff like you do. I can't wake up like you do and all that. I'm just not a morning person. I'm like, I'm not a morning person either. I hate it. But it's what right now suits my lifestyle so that I can have the time that I need for my job, for my kids, for my wife. But here's the thing. You thinking that you're living this, like, super spontaneous life, that there is no structure to your life. Your life is not spontaneous. Your life is chaos. You can't do something that's spontaneous unless you have structure. The whole idea of spontaneity is that it gets you out of the structure that you have. So we had this conversation a few months ago, and I got a chance to. To talk to him over the. Over the Christmas break. And I was like, how are things going? He's like, bro, I actually started. I. I got the. The deaf reset stuff, and I'm trying to do those things every day. And I was like, yeah. He goes, I will tell you, the spontaneity, the moments of spontaneousness, of spontaneity in my life are actually really rewarding now because I see that, like, I made a decision to do something different than what I do every other day.

[A]

That's good.

[B]

And now I can kind of enjoy that change in the routine that I made the decision to do it. That I broke away from the mold again. And he's like, you know, it feels like high school. I was like, all right. Because, you know, whether it was cut in class in high school or us doing something that was, like, rebellious.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That now there's no real authority to rebel against unless we want to end up in prison because we're adults.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Right. So.

[B]

So the. The authority that he's rebelling against is. Is the routine. And that for him, like, it's finally. He's finally at this point where he's like, okay, spontaneous or spontaneity is satisfying again because it means something. Instead of just, oh, I've got to wait until tomorrow to make the decision. Like, no, I made the decision today, and tomorrow I'm going to decide not to do it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So there you go. I'm going to have, you know, whatever it is, the small little things. And those now become way more satisfying because they're. They're choices and not just chaos. That there's. There's some structure there which has been pretty cool.

[A]

That's awesome. Yeah, that's awesome. Any other final things?

[B]

Dude? I think my. My final thing coming into. Are coming up on what for us as we're. We're looking down the scope, you know, episode 68. We've got episode 100 on the horizon. We got the second year of the podcast. You know, I talked about the. This stuff at Charisma Church. You know, they reached their third year. That's a. That's a. Things in threes are milestones for podcasts, too. 90. I think they said 97% of podcasts don't make it past episode three, and that's not possible. You got a good idea, and then you start doing it, and you realize that it takes a lot of work. I mean, it takes. People think about, like, the editing the show and stuff like that. That's the work. The work is aligning schedules to make sure that we can be here at the same time. The work is you putting together the run sheet so that we know what to do. It's scheduling guests and working around all of that stuff. And what are you going to talk about? And building chemistry? Like, those are the things that are the work. And I think after, you know, three episodes, people start to start to realize, like, hey, you know what? This is going to be really hard, and it's going to take a commitment. And so, you know, that. That there's that. But the third year is also something that, for a lot of podcasts, like they hit that and then. And they've done 150 episodes and they look back and they've gotten to the point where maybe they're getting some sponsorships and starting to get some good feedback and stuff. And they don't realize that five to seven is what you're looking at. And that's where it falls apart. I mean, my podcast that I did for Forever the Reverend and the Reprobate, we hit the three year mark and then that was it. My co host burned out. One of our favorite podcasts, which is not family friendly, but Tea Time Crimes is two gals. One of them loves true crime, one of them hates it. And so the one who hates it does a tea review and the one who loves it tells her a story about a true crime story that typically involves a woman and she hates it the entire time. And their friendships and their reactions are great. They hit the three year mark and they're like, hey, listen, hey, we want to thank everybody for their support. 150 episodes, 150 weeks of this. It's an exhausting amount of work and we're going on hiatus and we've messaged back and forth and for several other podcasts. That's what it's at. So I think the thing for me is my final thoughts is like, that we have to learn to not just find the richness in routine, but think beyond the failure points.

[A]

Yeah, I like that.

[B]

If the failure point is three episodes, then start planning episode five so that you've got something to look forward to. If the failure point is three years, then let's look at what we're going to do on episode 153. Let's not just look at what we're going to do there, but let's see if we can schedule that guest for 2026 to say, like, hey, you're coming. We're gonna, we're gonna make it happen and we're gonna bring you in for, for this. And what we're gonna do at episode, you know, 300, whenever we hit. Yeah, you know what, what would that be? Four years of this or whatever.

[C]

Or.

[B]

No, that would, that's bad math. It's six years, right? Like, what are we gonna do then? And start to, to look beyond those points of failure? Because it's like what you were talking about, man. If we're planning beyond those things, then like, hey, you know, I mean, what. We weren't exactly where we needed to be, but we know where we're going. So let's assess and let's make it happen.

[A]

I love it, dude. That's awesome. All right, so with that, we want to thank you guys for the support you've given us because we're gonna keep doing it. All the support you guys given us for just by simply listening, sharing, subscribing and commenting. We really appreciate it. Make sure you're subscribed to us on YouTube so you can be notified when our YouTube is exclusive. Episodes come out youtubes use the tubes. If you want to follow us on social Media, I'm at jpdonelle2ns2l's Lucas is Lucas Pinkard. L U C A S P I N C K A R D Make sure you're also following Echelon Front on social media. We are at Echelon Front and when you want to learn more about what we do at Echelon front, go to echelonfront.com you can click on events to see future events that we have. Shop for some of the merch we have. Check out Extreme Ownership Academy. And if you would like to work with us at Echelon Front or if you need us to come work with you and your company, you can also request that on the website and someone from our team will reach out to you. You can also just send me a direct message and I will help facilitate that as well.

[B]

That that EO Academy, the one o' clock Monday calls are. That's some of my favorite stuff.

[A]

I'm looking forward to today's with Dave Burke and Matt Hasbi.

[B]

I love so the instruction is incredible. But getting on the chat and getting the sit reps from the people who like you're starting to build these relationships with as y' all are all in the chat every week and see the successes that they're having is super motivating.

[A]

It's awesome.

[B]

It's. It's a blast.

[A]

It's well worth the investment.

[B]

No doubt.

[A]

Okay. Yep. So look forward to seeing you guys at a future event or for one of our instructors to come work with you and your company. Also check out Jesus and Jiu Jitsousa. It's a ministry that I'm a part of. We have a podcast that has episodes that come out every Tuesday. We're doing events about once every four to six weeks at different gyms. We start off with a free jiu jitsu seminar. Someone shares their testimony and then we open it up for Open map for some good training.

[B]

Yeah. February 15th, I believe at double five.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

Victoria is going to be our instructor for the let's go the post Valentine's Day. Like, you know, get out all your angst from all the money you spent or singles awareness day, Jujitsu fit. Like, let's do it, dude.

[A]

She is an incredible instructor. Incredible monster. Yeah.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

Some of my. Some of my favorite moments with her in jiu jitsu is watching her just destroy other men that are also black belts that think because she's a smaller girl, they get to go easy on her.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I saw one time at the other gym location, there's a black belt that was visiting. He was like, just from another gym or I don't know where he's at. And for me, he goes like, hey, do you mind going with Victoria? And he looked at Victoria and he goes, yeah. And he told for me. He goes, well, I'll go easy on her.

[B]

Dumb.

[A]

She heard that. I got nervous because I saw her and I. Bro, I avoided my round, like, because for me, it was like, hey, do you want to. And I was like, I'll take a rest. 1. I just wanted to watch.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

And bro, she beat the living breaks off of this guy to the point where the guy got done with his round, went and sat on the wall, took his belt off and just sat there. As in he was done training for the day.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

It was amazing. And her husband Trey is incredible. Like, they're incredible humans.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

But, yeah, I'm excited for her.

[B]

So she is the reason that I'm. I'm afraid of, like, the teenagers that come into our church now.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Because they're all being trained by her potentially.

[B]

Exactly. Like both your daughter.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Yeah. I think the last time we were. We were talking about something, I was talking with. With Cornola, and I was like, are they like, hey, when are we gonna roll together? I think never. We're never gonna roll together. It's not gonna happen. Like, I. I don't need to be choke. I don't need to add to my resume. Choked out by 13 year old who was trained by Victoria. It's not something that.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Choked by Tim Kennedy. Sure.

[A]

Okay, cool.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Choked out by JP Donnell or Isaac or any of the guys you're training with. Absolutely. Choked out by Cora Dinelle.

[C]

Like.

[B]

No. Followed by Nola Chokamine. Nope, that's not it.

[A]

We were at immersion camp and Victoria came. Or her and Trey came.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Victoria was teaching. Helping teach. The amount of positive feedback that people got.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

For her instruction was unreal.

[B]

She's so patient too.

[A]

And she was.

[B]

Also teaches a beginner's class.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And she was also Demoing stuff in front of the whole group. There's at one time, like, Pete was like, hey, you know, blah, blah, can you. And so she demoed it and everyone's like, what? And I'm not gonna share what the move was.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Because that was exclusive for the immersion camp.

[B]

Bummer.

[A]

I know. Hey, sign up and come next year. She'll be there again.

[B]

I think there's like two spots left, maybe.

[A]

Yeah. It was so impressive to where, like, so I've seen her do this before. And so I'm watching, but I'm also watching everybody. And to watch all these other high level black belts that are all there as experts all do this. Like, it looked like the Joe Rogan. And you know, like for the ufc, whenever there's like a knockout, they do the videos.

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah. The Joe Rogan reaction.

[A]

He looked around, everyone was like, that's so cool. Can we see that again? She was demoing it on Trey. Trey was like.

[B]

Like, if you have to.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

It was awesome. It's. Yeah. She does a lot with the beginners class too. And we were doing escapes from guard. And I'm. My jiu. I've said this before. My Jiu Jitsu IQ is in the negatives, and so I'll do something. And she's like, you're getting closer. You're getting closer. Here, put. Put your hand like this. Pull here, Lucas. Okay. Put your hand on his belch. Okay. Take it. No, not like this.

[A]

Okay. Let's just start over.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Why did you put your hands in the collar like that? Because that feels natural. That's not natural. That's not good.

[A]

Like, okay.

[B]

But so, so sweet and so patient.

[A]

It's awesome.

[B]

She's great, man.

[A]

So you guys hopefully be there also. Go to Little Cattle Co. Get that beef. Yeah. Little Cattle Co. Little Cattle Co is our website. Texas beef company and partner with. Get it while you can. That's all I'm going to say. Or a custom beef company that allows you to order exactly what you want anytime we're able to deliver anywhere in the lower 48 states, we have a ground beef subscription plan. We have different beef tallow products which include body butter, tallow cream, lip balm, beef sticks. If you want to be a wholesaler for the beef sticks and or the beef tallow products, please send an email to amandaittlecattle.co also partner with a printing company called on the Path Printing. We are on Instagram. You can send us a message. It's on the Path Printing. Let us know what you need. And we will start cranking out those orders. Leif, Jocko and I have a company called Bruiser Arms. You can check us out on Instagram. We are at. You can send us a message about custom gear packages we offer and also the custom training classes that we can put together for you, a group, your team, company, whoever. You can also just send me a direct message about this and I can help facilitate whatever is needed to move forward with that training. Also, make sure you check out Origin and Jockey Fuel. I just want to thank them for all the support they have given over the years. What they have done is absolutely incredible. You guys have heard me talk about what Pete and Amanda and Dideco and Jocko and everybody at Origin and Jocko Fuel has done, and it's. Dude, it's unreal. It's absolutely unreal. So if you want to get the best.

[B]

Celebrating, I think, 10 years, right? Yeah, no, over. Over.

[A]

Yeah. It's been over a decade. So I was like, wait, I was there for their 10 year. That was a couple years ago. I think we're like 12 years now.

[B]

Yeah, we're closing in on.

[A]

Which is crazy, what they've done.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

Pete always talks about decades. Everything's in decades.

[B]

I think. I think that's why I got that. Because he was like, it takes a decade to build something. And now they sold their 100,000th pair of American made jeans.

[A]

Jeans. It's. Yeah.

[B]

Crazy, dude.

[A]

So if you want to get the best, best jiu jitsu gear and the best clothes that are all 100% made in America, go to originusa.com make sure you also go to jockeyfuel.com to get your supplements and clean energy drinks. You know, closing thoughts. I love what Lucas said. I love our conversations today. And the only thing I would just add to it is be willing to do the hard work. Like life requires hard work. Don't create an environment that creates weakness. Be the one that's out there that that's doing hard things, but also empowering the people around you to be able to do hard things as well. Because that's a legacy play. And here's the deal. Every single one of you, myself included, we are all leaving a legacy. So the thing I'll ask you is what type of legacy are you leaving? I hope this episode has been a reminder to go do the work that's needed, put in the effort, and to never settle. This has been the JP Donnell podcast, episode 68.