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- [00:01]
A
Good morning. This is the JP now podcast, episode 130. I am JP Donnell and as always, I'm Lucas with me. How are you doing, my man?
- [00:08]
B
We're doing fantastic, dude. It is good to be back for episode 130. I cannot believe we've reached. Yeah, what a freaking milestone.
- [00:17]
A
You know, it's funny like when you said, Is this 130? And I said, yeah, because I was like typing up in the notes earlier and I don't know why. That number just seems pretty legit. Obviously episode 100 was really cool. When we hit one year, that was cool. And I don't know, I'm just grateful to. To do what we do. And let's go ahead and jump into some Q A, my man. Let's do it.
- [00:39]
B
I think this one is applicable based on our pre show conversation. How do you eat healthy when you're on the road? Somebody's traveled a lot, they want to. Want to maintain good nutrition. How do you do that whenever you're traveling?
- [00:51]
A
I think I like the timing of this as I, um, I am working on being more intentional with eating good on the road. Um, I know, I mean, you know, I, I like to eat and I, I lack discipline during that. It always comes in waves for me, unfortunately. But, you know, it's one of the things I'm working on. Being more mindful and, and just understanding, you know, what Jonathan and Ann talk about at first in nutrition. And there's the things that my parents taught us when we were kids and when I was in the SEAL teams prepping for, you know, different things. You know, when I was training for MMA fights and had to cut weight, it's. For me, it's all about intentionality. And I know I've said this before, intentionality and intensity is a choice. And so when you're on the road, it's just planning it out a little bit more in advance, being a little more disciplined and thinking, okay, hey, this is where I'm staying. Pull up the hotel on your map in Google Maps or Apple Maps or whatever you use and search the area for restaurants and then just know that you have these good options. You know, Chipotle is always an easy one. I know Cody eats Chipotle all the time. Um, you know, and you can obviously eat like, like a jerk at Chipotle, and it's not going to be the healthiest, but you can also eat pretty healthy at Chipotle. For me, Chipotle is a go to also if I have to, like, if I just need, like Some calories. I need some protein. I know it's not the best, but it's also not the worst. And I've done it when I'm cutting weight and it's. I've had good, good results with it. Is the grilled chicken from Chick Fil A. Get two grilled chicken breasts from Chick Fil A and that's good to go. You know, if you want to throw some cheese on there, awesome. But at the end of the day, if you're tracking what you're eating, I can eat a Chick Fil A grilled chicken sandwich from Chick Fil A and still hit my macro goals, still hit my calorie goals, most importantly, hit my protein goals and be good to go. But if, if I'm not thinking about it, if I'm not intentional, if I'm not tracking, that's when I fall off the path. Also going to. I know some of the instructors will do this. You know, we'll find like a Whole Foods or like a Target close to the hotel and try to just go grab some protein and some, some Greek yogurts. And so that way you have those in the morning and at night, you know, getting protein drinks while you're on the road, finding a vitamin shop, go grab a couple bulks. That way you have one or two of those before bed and then one to two in the morning when you wake up and you're going to be good to go. So it's not so much like there isn't no like hack or secret to it. It's just intentionality and just being disciplined and thinking about it and plan. And for me, I need to have it in my schedule and plan through it. So I just got done working out and I knew we're getting ready to record and I hadn't eaten and so I wanted to eat something. And I knew that the restaurant bar at the hotel I'm staying at didn't have a lot of solid selections. And so before I walked back over here, because I was like, all right, well, I'm just, I'll just grab a couple protein drinks and some fruit and I'll eat that and just call it a night. But I felt like I needed a little bit more in me after that workout and I wanted definitely hit my protein goal for, for the day. And so I just looked at the menu at that other hotel's restaurant bar and they had a 12 ounce sirloin G. They had wild rice and asparagus. And so that's what I ate Tonight was a 12 ounce sirloin, some wild rice, asparagus. And you know, I have a protein drink that I'll drink after this before I go to bed. And I'll be, I'll be good where I'm at, that kind of gets me
- [05:19]
B
to the next thing. And these kind of, these questions sort of go hand in hand because we do, whether it's us getting it online, you guys getting the question at the muster or whatever, it comes down to like, all right, how do you eat healthy on the road? And then the second one is like, it is the how do you maintain your, your fitness on the road? Because not, and not every hotel has a good hotel gym that you go to.
- [05:45]
A
Right.
- [05:45]
B
You mentioned you. So how do you maintain your fitness whenever you're, you're traveling?
- [05:52]
A
Well, I, I looked at, so the, the hotel I'm staying at, they're renovating the gym and so they gave us a hotel key to the hotel across the street to be able to have access to the gym. And so I got on Google, pulled up that, pulled up that hotel, looked at pictures of the gym and I was like, oh, this will, this will be good enough. This will be good for what I need. And it actually turned out I made a social media post about it earlier. It was not a bad hotel gym. And so for me, I was, I was able to get the work in for what I wanted to do today. The other thing is again, being a little disciplined, you know, being willing to jump in your rental car and drive 10, 15 minutes and go buy a, you know, a day pass at a gym. Most gyms, if you tell them, hey, I'm on the road traveling for work, do you guys get guest pass? It's like 5, 10, 15. I, I mean it's very rare that it's even 15. Most of the time it's like 5 or $10. And I would say a handful of times they'll just be like, hey, don't worry about it, just sign the waiver and you'll be able to work out for free. So that's always an option. It's just about making it a part of your day again, being disciplined, putting it into your calendar, your schedule and saying, hey, this is a non negotiable for me. Also at the end of the day, you can do a workout in your hotel room. You can do a mustard style workout where you're doing and you know, an emom every minute on the minute for 30 minutes. Pick five different exercises and do that six rounds or six different exercises and do that five rounds. At the end of the day you can definitely get to work in. Going for a walk, go for a jog. You know, I've done this before where the hotel I had was both the treadmills were down because I wanted to walk on an incline and get some incline work in. They had no dumbbells and just like some machines that I was not going to use or work out on. And so I, I just hit the stairwell and so for 30 minutes I just would jog up the stairs, walk down, jog up, walk down, jog up, walk down, do a few sprint intervals and 30 minutes of that will definitely get the work in. But the, I mean there's no reason why you can't work out on the road. I know I have lacked discipline of that but it was never because like I can't get anything done. You do again a muster style workout in your hotel room. You can do the stairs at your hotel, you can go for a walk outside, you can go for a jog. Okay, it's super cold. Hit the stairwell. You don't want to hit the stairwell. Do push ups, squats, flutter kicks, sit ups, burpees, jumping jacks, lunges, hollow rocks, There's a lot of arm circles, you know, shadow box in your hotel room. You can get the work in for sure. I like because I know Cody does this and so does Matt Hasbi. They go find gyms and I've been starting to do that more myself. I like it because it breaks up the monotony of being in a hotel room. Everyone's like, oh, you travel all the time, must be awesome. One I don't see the cities for the most part. It's airport, rental car or Uber. Head to the hotel, prep, knock out, work, catch up on emails, do whatever and then knock out a hotel workout. Uber, eat some food or go grab some food. That's the other thing. You can uber eat some decently healthy food if you had to and then go to bed and wake up and speak and head to the airport and head to the next event. So, um, I like, I've been liking more doing what Cody and has me do of getting and I think Rob, oh, Rob Jones doesn't do it as much because once he's at a hotel just because it's. He likes to stay put, I think. But breaking it up and getting out of the hotel and go knock out a workout for a little reset and then coming back I think is also very beneficial.
- [10:08]
B
Yeah, One of the things I've enjoyed in traveling is going to some of those public parks that have like the workout stuff. I know that it's not always feasible, but you know, because a lot of times those, those places are, are shut down or difficult to get to, you know, if it's late in the evening or whatever. But some of those you talk about breaking up the monotony of the workout, right? The, you know, the little pull up bars at the different levels, but then also the, you know, the dips and stuff like that that you're like forced to do whenever you're in those situations is definitely something that causes you to, to bust out of the norm. And I think that, you know, those things in general help us to cultivate kind bits of creativity that we otherwise, you know, might not be doing. Because there is a certain amount of what, like when you travel, what you do that is the same. Right. Even though each company is, is unique, every place is individual. I was talking with a good buddy of mine who, who does training for automotive diesel repair stuff and he's doing the same training at every place, but The Q&As are markedly different and he's having to look for ways to kind of create that creativity. So that would be one. The other questions I would ask is like, how do you maintain a fresh approach when even though you're dealing with a new company, new people, new clients that have new issues, so much of what you're doing is the same as far as like, you know, here's our rubric for analyzing people's problems. These are the things that we teach, like how do you keep that fresh and creative?
- [11:57]
A
Well, before I do an event, I do a pre event call with that client. And so in that pre event call I am asking them what are some of the struggles that the. Oh, first off, I ask them like, okay, hey, let's verify how many people are going to be there and explain to me the different types of people there that are going to be there. Like what are their positions that in the company, what are some of their struggles at the different levels? What do they do? Well and then I always ask them if, you know, if you could have a majority of the people leave the training with one to two takeaways that they could implement and that would be a success for you. What does that look like? And so I'll review that before the event. Like tonight I'm going to review my notes again. Even though this group is the same group that I worked with last month, there's still some, you know, slight shifts and changes in the organization. I'LL do a little bit of research on that company and the market and the industry, who their competitors are. And then the morning of, I go through that all again and my goal is as I'm speaking and talking about the battle Ramadi, the laws of combat, the mindsets for victory, doing our implementation, doing the balance assessment, doing some of the different hands on exercises that we do, whatever module that I'm doing, like tomorrow, Hasbi and I are working with two different groups in two different locations with this company. And for this iteration we're going to be going through some of our communication training modules and I will just tie in stuff that's specific to what I've talked to their leadership about my last interactions with the group. And then because I have, I do notes after events, I will make modifications to the slide decks based off of what we did, what we're going to do. And then I just, I just make it a point to have specific talking points based off of that group, whether it's my first time, second time, 15th time working with them, whatever they're currently working through and trying to navigate. I will then told different stories, give different examples that can connect to that. And then we do a lot of Q and A and we have a lot of round table discussions and group discussions and sharing amongst our groups and then hey, what was a commonality in this group? And have them share and you know, that's the way I like to do it and a lot of the other structures. So it's a lot of interaction and part of what part of what we do is we're not just speaking off of a PowerPoint slide and be like, as you can see on this next slide, line number two, like we're actually talking and teaching, but we're also listening and having interactions with the attendees to help them navigate problems. And so I think for me that's always keeping it fresh.
- [15:21]
B
And those things like that are, you know, the little detail things which we've talked about time and time and time again are the things that really make the difference whenever you are not just like having interactions with clients, but whenever you're leading in general is those are the things that, you know, separate the levels. Yeah, right. Like the elite level leaders from the people who just do it well.
- [15:44]
A
Right.
- [15:45]
B
Which you know, you, you talk about the things that separate echelon front from, from everybody else. And one of those things that has come up time and time again, whether it's in the books, extreme ownership, dichotomy of leadership, need to lead any of those Things or in the, you know, the extreme ownership academy calls on Wednesday. Whether it's the stuff that you guys talk about at the muster, our podcast, Jocko's podcast, is you guys are really forthcoming with your mistakes and how so many of the leadership lessons you've learned have come from those mistakes. And, you know, tonight, one of the questions that we got. We saved this one from, you know, the. The list of questions we got from Reddit. Um, as this is, what's the biggest leadership mistake that you've made in your career? You know, nice, easy question.
- [16:38]
A
Yeah, that's a really good question. Um, man, I. I mean, there's a. There's a good amount of them. Um, obviously, when I was younger in the teams, you know, getting in trouble, getting arrested for fighting out in town was a mistake. And, you know, you're in the teams and, hey, things happen, and you can justify all you want of, well, hey, I was defending myself or I was defending my friends, but at the end of the day, like, I mean, as I think back on those, like, I. I could have walked away. It was my ego getting in the way. Like, I had to fight. That was a few times, like, guys put their hands on me or my buddies unprovoked, and at that point, it's like, all right, cool. You have to engage and de. Escalate. But, you know, those are mistakes that I definitely, like, I think back, I'm like, man, that was so stupid. That was so reckless. Fighting in a bar, out in public is absolutely ridiculous. It's driven by ego 100%. And, you know, I got in trouble at times, and I put unfortunately, you know, stress on my leadership's plate and, you know, things that Seth had to navigate and work through and Jocko had to work through, which I think back, and I'm like, man, I feel. I feel so bad for, you know, the. Those things. Instead of answering with, like, one specific thing. I think it would be a tr. Like A. A tendency that I have, which I'm aware of and I'm correcting and shifting, but it's me being just too engaged and too hands on. Not, like, too engaged, but being hands on and not just letting my team run with stuff because I love. I've always loved what I've done. I've loved in the SEAL teams. I actually, you know, if you compare, you know, the sales job that I did to the SEAL teams, what I do now, yeah, it's definitely not ranked up there as, like, cool and enjoyable, but I enjoyed that job. I enjoyed the challenge of sales. And when I was a sales manager, man, like, I could have gone about that so much, so so many different ways, and I could have empowered my people way better. I should have empowered my people at a much higher level also, like, just at echelon front, just. Just stepping back and just letting Cody and the guys run with stuff. They are so smart, they're so capable, they're qualified. They're. They're freaking rock stars, man. I have a bunch of sled dogs that are. That are smart, that are hardworking, that care. They like to win. They want to win. Let them go. Just let them run with it. And for me, my natural tendency is doing the work, doing the work, doing the work with the guys, because I like to work, but I also like being with my guys. And so for me, understanding, okay, how do I. How do I just, boom, relinquish and think strategically more? Like, I need to be better at thinking strategically more. So that is something that I've been working on, and I will continue working on, and I look forward to just seeing those shifts.
- [20:21]
B
Yeah, and I think you kind of answered. The second part is like, what did you. What did you learn from it? Because each one of those things, you've got some lessons and things that you. You've pulled stuff from the. The thing we've talked a lot about in the past, you know, having the sled dog mentality. Last week's episode was a lot about, like, doing more and figuring out, you know, what are the. What are the things that we can do in our lives and our organizations, you know, wherever, in order that we can do more the best.
- [20:51]
A
Right.
- [20:52]
B
I was preventing myself from saying do more better all this last week.
- [21:00]
A
But the.
- [21:01]
B
But the truth is, that's one of the things that we need to figure out. And when we look at the mistakes that we make in leadership, they often help us to do exactly that. So what I want you to walk me through is how do you evaluate your leadership mistakes so that you can pull lessons out of them instead of them being these things that kind of just like, hang over you with, you know, that. That just kind of put it like a. A cloud of, like, whether it's. It's guilt or doubt or shame or whatever that you like, you know, that keeps you from going, I absolutely suck at this. How do you look at those mistakes and evaluate them in such a way that it allows you to be better the next time and to do more, you know, in the future?
- [21:50]
A
I think that requires a mindset shift of you understanding, like, hey, I'm a flawed human. I'm not a perfect leader. I'm not a perfect husband, I'm not a perfect father. I'm not a perfect friend. Do I think I'm good at some of those things? Yeah. Do I know that I have room to improve in all of those things? Absolutely. And so one understand, I've got room for improvement in all areas of my life and I'll never improve if I'm not willing to do an honest self assessment and be intentional with thinking, okay, hey, what, what can I be better at? The other thing is you need to have a good relationship with your people so that you can seek feedback from them. Now, getting feedback from your team in regards to what you have to work on and improve on as a leader is probably not going to happen. It doesn't matter how good the relationship is. The likelihood that your people give you candidates feedback, direct feedback, is extremely low. I have a few of those people in my life and I'm thankful for those relationships. But getting that from all the people in your life is probably not going to happen. So you need to get it from your peers and you need to get it from your leadership and you have to be open to it and yet to ask for it and yet to continuously ask for it and come at it with a, you know, with a posture of humility and desire for direct feedback for your growth. But here's the thing, if you ask for it, you can't be offended, you can't push back. You can't, you know, try to justify things on the back end and be like, well, okay, yeah, hey, I'm glad I got that information. But no, it's like the answer should be, roger that. Absorb it, take it on board, show humility and then start making changes. And then when you see positive, Sorry. And then when you see those things being implemented, causing positive growth, awesome. You're on the right path and just keep doing those things. Also, be careful who you surround yourself with. If you surround yourself with a bunch of people that are always telling you how awesome you are and don't give you anything to work on. Yeah, okay. Just know like, hey, those might be great friends, good people to have in your corner, but they're not going to be the ones that are going to help you grow. You need to have people that are going to help you grow.
- [24:24]
B
That kind of brings us to, you know, one of the last questions that we've got here. And then the person who asked this question sets it up in a couple of different ways. And I think that the, the biggest one, but the, the biggest part of this question is, and it has some to do with faith, but it's also philosophy. And so I'll, I'll hit you from, from that angle because that's it. So the question setup is this. Weapons require proper training so that you don't hurt your. All right, so there you go. That's the setup for the question.
- [25:04]
A
Valid statement.
- [25:05]
B
Yeah.
- [25:06]
A
Right.
- [25:07]
B
And so I'll ask the first part of the question this way. How do you prevent yourself from weaponizing the skill set that we have as leaders or that we're developing as leaders against the people that we're leading? And I was asked that as the broad question. I'll, you know, kind of refine it as, as we get more into some
- [25:31]
A
of that really simple. Really simple response. And then we can elaborate if you want, or we just leave it as it is so that people don't try to manipulate and twist what, what we elaborate on.
- [25:44]
B
Right?
- [25:45]
A
When you're doing things for the betterment of the people and the team, that's leadership. When you're doing things for your betterment, that's manipulation. So if you're doing things or saying things, manipulating people for. Because of your ego, because you lack humility or whatever, that is manipulation. That is not leadership. You can't use a position, a title, your rank in a constructive manner. You lead people through relationships and influence. If you have to say, do this because I told you so, or if you have to bring up your title, your rank, your age, your experience over somebody, that is not leadership, that means that you don't have influence. You don't have a good solid relationship with that person. Because if you did, you wouldn't have to state them those things. You wouldn't have to say, hey, I've been doing this for so long, or hey, I've been. Blah, blah, blah, like, you don't have to do those things, and there's people that do that. And we've all fallen into that trap. And that's ego. That's your ego coming up. And your ego is also, unfortunately, going to drive you to manipulate people. But if you're building good relationships with your people and you're being genuine and you're doing it for the right reasons, and you have a solid relationship, therefore you have the ability to influence people. You can influence people to do things and to not do things, to say things and not say things. You can influence people to have more discipline in their life because of the example that you set. Instead of having to impose discipline upon them. This isn't on the same path, but it's connected to it. I want to read a text I got from a buddy, and I'm gonna. I'm gonna shift some things in the text to protect this individual, not protect them, but just out of respect for him. So. So one of my kids went out with a guy over the weekend. I didn't like my daughter's shirt choice. It wasn't awful or skanky, but the hem sat right at her belt line. And if she lifted her arms, her midsection, her middle section was visible. Like, okay, not horrible, but not comfortable for me to go out with a guy I don't really know. And as I'm reading this, I'm like, valid. And where he goes is exactly where my brain went. I'm like, all right, this is awesome. So I began thinking back in text. So I began thinking, sorry, Thinking through EO extreme ownership on how to address. Instead of saying, that's an inappropriate shirt, go change conversation, which a father could easily do, but we all know where that's going to go. And then he says. Which would be getting into a debate over what's appropriate. I simply said, hey, that shirt. Think about your date's obligation. If some jack leg at the bowling alley had a few drinks and makes comments about you, if he sees your midriff, what's your date going to say or do? I know what I would have done at 18 is someone who would have made those remarks to my date. This is a cover move, opportunity for you to cover for him from having to even encounter that situation. She immediately understood it wasn't a trick. It was actually applicable. It's real. So he influenced his daughter because of his relationship. The words that he chose for her to realize, oh, you know what? Yeah, it's not a horrible shirt. It's not inappropriate. But is it the best shirt that I should be wearing out and about? Is there a possibility of putting this young man in a hard position, a bad situation where he has to now defend her honor, or he has to say something or he gets into an altercation, and guess what? By her changing her shirt, that was now a lesser probability? It's very similar to what, you know, I told Amanda when we first started dating. My wife is a smoke show. I out kicked my coverage by far. And, you know, when we go out and about with our. With our friends back when we first started dating, she was never doing anything inappropriate or, you know, causing, you know, problems or whatever. But I'd Always, you know, remind her, hey, if you, like, if somebody is a jerk to you or you says something inappropriate to you, if you engage, I'm now committed to, like, disengagement. If you disengage, we can navigate, we can walk away, we can leave, you know, obviously based off of, like, the level of inappropriate, like, what goes on. But the likelihood of someone going straight to that is so low. But if you say something back and they say something now, I am absolutely engaged. And the escalation. I don't want to. I just. I would rather not. And again, Amanda was never causing those problems. I'm very lucky. I've been with girls in the past, women in the past, that it was like a straight up liberty risk. The whole time you're out and about, you're just like, oh, what are they gonna say? What are they gonna do? What fight am I gonna get in? Because she is not being polite to somebody. It's never been the case with Amanda. And we had to have this conversation with our daughters recently when we. They wanted to go thrifting. And we're down in downtown Denton, and as you know, downtown Denton is just. It's a dumpster fire. And, you know, there's some guy out on this corner with a very offensive sign yelling things and blah, blah, blah. And Cora, she's our little jokester, and she. She's like, hey, what if I was to say this? And I just was like, do not do. Don't you dare. And Amanda looks at her and is like, do not put your dad in that situation. Because if you say that, even though it's a joke and if he says something offensive towards you, you know what your dad's going to do. And Cora's like, I. I was just joking. I wasn't going to actually say that. But it was an opportunity for us to again, remind the girls, hey, let's not create scenarios that could end in conflict. Let's avoid conflict. Let's be smart, have situational awareness. We're not on our phones, heads down, walking around. And so life gives you the opportunity to train and teach all the time. And I love that my buddy uses as an opportunity just to teach his daughter how to think, not what to think. He could have said, hey, that's inappropriate. I'm not comfortable with it. Go change. And guess what she would have done. Yes, Deb, because she is a very respectful young lady. I mean, bro, if I could, based off what I know about her through her dad, if I could pick somebody for aid to date, winner Winner, chicken dinner. I'm telling you, man, she is a beautiful young woman that loves the Lord, graduated high school early, has just her head on her shoulders, is already started a business, is super respectful of her parents, have high morals. I mean, she is like an awesome young woman. So she would have said, okay, dad. Now, she might have pushed back. She might have some attitude. I don't know. And my daughters would have a little bit of an attitude, but they. But if they did push back, I would be like, hey, I could say, I said, go change. Go change. And my daughters would go change. But guess what? I just lost leadership capital with my daughters. Therefore, I lost a little bit of a relationship. I lost a little bit of influence, and I want to have influence over my daughters. I want to have a relationship with my daughters. It doesn't mean that I can't be their father. It just means I have greater influence because of a stronger relationship, because I don't have to say, hey, I'm your dad. Go do that. If you have to say that, that's not the best thing. And if you're always saying that, that's not a good thing. Now, is there a time and place as parents, we have to say, hey, go do this right now. We'll talk about it later. I believe so. There's times in the military that, like, leadership's gonna be like, hey, I need you guys to execute on this right now. We'll talk about later. But, hey, this needs to get done. And the bosses that I loved and respected, guess what my response was every single time. And was that ever withdrawal from them? No, because it was so rare. It was so rare that those good leaders like Seth, Jocko, Life, Benny would ever do that. And if they did, I was like, oh, shoot, this must be really serious. Boom, I got you. But if they were doing that stuff all the time, it would be like, cool. All right, man. And then eventually you rebel. And if you're doing that with your kids all the time, they'll just rebel. I don't want my daughters rebelling. I don't want my sons rebelling. I want them to come to me for everything and for us to have conversations. And, yeah, that's my goal. That's what winning looks like. And this guy, when it comes to the relationship with his wife and his daughter, bro, he sets a high standard, okay?
- [35:08]
B
So when we're. When we're influencing people, we. We realize we kind of hold manipulation in these two different positions, right? Like, manipulation for the good of the team is a positive thing. Because it forces everybody to win. Manipulation.
- [35:22]
A
And that's not manipulation. That's leadership. You're influence. Right? Influence versus manip. Same same outcome, but different intent. Influence is leadership. Manipulation is for your own good.
- [35:36]
B
Gotcha. Okay, so that's what we'll, we're will kind of make the, the semantic difference, right? So that, so that people are there with us. So if, if that's the case when we're in a place where we have a lot of institutional knowledge, right? And whether it is institutional knowledge based off of, let's say, the, the job that we're in, right? Where especially if we're in a training position, maybe we have a lot of institutional knowledge when it comes to leadership. Maybe we have a lot of institutional knowledge when it comes to our faith or the Bible or those kinds of things, right. How do we prevent, like if we're, if we're learning not to weaponize our leadership, that we're using influence and not manipulation, right? So we're not weaponizing the leadership. How do we prevent ourselves from weaponizing our knowledge in order to, to kind of keep people in, in their place or in such a way that like we, we damage the people that we're leading? Because this is, for me, this is the, the trickiest part, okay.
- [36:48]
A
I think it's, it's about education. So again, if you're educating people, you're giving them knowledge and you're teaching them how to think, not what to think. And that's by having open ended conversations, asking people questions, asking them what they think, how does that make them feel? Where does that apply? What do they think they could do better at? How can they better apply these things? And so as a pastor, like you've done this with me, I've seen you do this with other people. You know, you're extremely smart, your biblical knowledge is extremely high. Just like Chris Larma, Pastor Chris, Pastor Ty Tyron, like Pastor Ethan. These guys never. And I'll talk about them instead of you because I know it'll make you uncomfortable. Like these guys never, never have said, hey man, I've been a pastor for over 20 years, you need to listen to me. Not once, bro. Not once. And their biblical knowledge is so, I think, bro, it's so high. It's so high. Troy Foster guys from Pursuit, like Matt, you know, those guys have never been like, you know, Troy's like, like a guy I've talked to a lot about different prophetic things and discernment and biblical things and not once, as he said, hey bro, this is What? I know. You just need to shut up and do this. He'll be like, well, okay, what's your thoughts on that? Why do you think you're thinking this? Hey, let's walk through it. Hey, let's go back to Scripture. And he'll bring me back to scripture. And I'll be like, oh, okay, cool. You've done this with me where I've. I've asked questions, and I'm like, man, I just. I know. I know this is right, and I know this is wrong, but, man, I just. I'm having a hard time connecting these things. And, you know, you've reminded me, hey, your heart is deceitful. Don't follow your heart. Let's go back to scripture. I'm like, all right, you. Right? I know this, you know, and you know, and that's. Dude, Tyron does that with me all the time. Pastor Chris Lerma all the time. My buddy Titus, who stayed with us for a little bit, we would be talking about stuff and be like, cool, Boom. Let's go to the Bible. It was never, well, I went to Bible college or, well, hey, I've been reading the Bible for 40 years. I've never heard that from any of these people. It was all about them bringing me back to the source and helping me feel it and understand it on my own. That's education. That's leadership. That's teaching people how to think, not what to think. And when you're teaching people what to think, that's manipulation. When you teach people how to think through good sources, that's what leadership's all about. I think about what my grandmother used to do with us as kids. You know, I got us here the other week, and it was amazing. She's 92, and we were still, like, talking about stuff, and, you know, she'd, you know, bring up actual scriptures. Not like, well, this is kind of what I'm thinking. No, this is what the Bible says. And, you know. You know, I think what my dad did when I was a kid, you know, working on a job site with him, he would show me things. Not just be like, hey, do that. He would show me, hey, this is how you do it. Hey, this is why you hammer a nail this way. This is why you want to hit this angle. When you hit this angle, this is what it's going to do. And, hey, when you're doing this and you're talking tying off this, and this is why. And, hey, this is why you want to use, you know, this type of a knot when you're tying down a load and all this stuff. Like, he was really good at explaining those things to where now to the point it's like, I can do things on my own and I'm like, oh, I know why those are done that way. And then instead of me just doing it, I can apply the knowledge. It's the same thing in the SEAL teams. Hey, when you're going into a building and this is the layout, this is what you do, this is what you don't do. Here's why. Let's run through both. Let's feel it, let's experience it. I think the more you can teach people how to think and experience things on their own, that's going to have the best impact.
- [41:18]
B
If you guys want to learn more about the exact stuff that JP was talking about, you need to go to echelonfront.com if you haven't already picked up the books. Extreme Ownership if you haven't looked at Dichotomy of Leadership, if you haven't looked at Leadership Strategy and Tactics. So many of the questions that we answered tonight, there are bits and pieces of those answers that are in all of those books. If you join the Extreme Ownership Academy online, you can be part of a live call that happens every Wednesday where we go over leadership topic and then there's an opportunity for Q and A with JP and the other instructors that are part of Echelon Front. And I gotta say, man, Leadership Strategy and Tactics is probably the best of, of the three because it's just right there. It's a desk reference. You don't, hey, I'm having problems because I'm feeling, you know, like the, the people below me aren't listening to me. I feel like there's a mutiny coming or something like that. You know what? Pull the book off the shelf, look it up. It's a field manual. It's not just something for you to read cover to cover. It's there for you to have every day to be used. Take notes, highlight all those kinds of things. The need to Lead by Dave Burke. I'm so stoked about being able to pass that out now to a couple of friends of mine who just finished up Dichotomy of Leadership and they're like, hey, what's the next step? For me? This is it. Need to Lead finishes up the. The trilogy. As it stands right now, we talked a little bit about diet. How do you stay on the path whenever you're. You're traveling? Those kinds of things. Go to firstinnutrition,.com JP Pod talk to Jonathan and Ann. You'll get four free weeks of nutrition coaching and they're going to tell you exactly how you stay on the path whenever there are moments where you travel, whenever there's stuff that's going to make it complicated for you. Because you know what? Maybe it's not going to be easy for me to get all of the things that I need this week. Maybe my macros are at a place right now where, where they're all out of whack and I don't know how much I should be having of. Of what. Get some nutrition coaching. Get people who can help you day in and day out to be able to do those things. Jonathan and Ann are above and beyond able to get the job done. Then JP and I also belong to a ministry called Jesus and Jiu jitsu. And on April 18th in Dripping Springs, Texas, with Marcus and Lacy and Leif B. At Stoic Jiu Jitsu, we have a no GI seminar with a guy some of y' all might have heard of. Dean Lister is going to be there giving. Yeah man, giving a free seminar. That is a no GI seminar. That's going to be on April 18th. So you'll go there. Enjoy the free seminar. Go pick up some Jocko Fuel. If you need to get some Jocko fuel to get yourself right, go to Jocko fuel.com use code JP Pod20 save yourself 20%. Also huge shout out to Jocko Fuel and to Origin for everything that they've done to support the podcast. And if you know you've seen it for the last couple of months it's been making arounds that, that blue RTX hoodie, you know, it's, it's been memed. It's, it's almost back in stock. They're getting them ready to go. So make sure you go over to Origin and check those things out. And if you need apparel printing, go look at on the path printing link for that in the show notes. If you need to do some self care ban the the tallow products at Little Cattle Co are absolutely amazing. Check them out. And then finally if you want to check out the gear that these guys used the the folks who wrote Extreme Ownership JP Jocko Leif JP talked about Matt has beat the gear that they use, the training that they had that kept them at the top of their game not only to protect our nation, but now that they're back home to protect their families. Go check out Bruiser Arms. They've got custom gear packages and custom training that they'll put together, curate it for you so that you can be the best protector of your home and your self that you can be. So really cool stuff. Check out all that stuff in the show notes. Thank you guys so much for liking subscribing for all your support, all the reviews and stuff you'll love. They're super encouraging for us. They help out the podcast a ton. So we, we're just in debt to y' all for all of that and as well as some of the awesome questions that we got tonight. So thank you guys so much. Y' all are the best part of the JPNL podcast and what we've got going on. So Thanks a ton.
- [45:31]
A
J.P. you got any final thoughts? First man yeah, one, I just want to echo your appreciation for our listeners. You know, do us a favor, share an episode, share the podcast. That's, you know, the more people we can reach, the, the greater impact we want to be able to reach through this podcast, through sharing lessons, sharing stories, sharing our faith, and, you know, just staying true to the reason why we started this podcast. So when you guys share these episodes on your stories and you add a link that people can click on it to YouTube or Spotify or itunes and actually send it to somebody and tell them, hey, you gotta check this out. Subscribe it if you like. It helps us out. So we're very appreciative of that. And so my closing thoughts, you know, on par with the theme of tonight is do an honest assessment. Do an honest assessment about the relationships with your in your life. And asking yourself, are you actually leading and influence people or are you manipulating people? And if you're, if you've been manipulating people, then just change. I know sometimes that happens in life. It wasn't intentional. Unfortunately, at times there are people that do that that are being intentional. But you have a choice in regards to what you do. You have a choice to lead or you have a choice to manipulate. You have a choice to take ownership, or you have a choice to play the victim cards, take ownership, lead, influence the people around you. And if you're just kind of frustrated with things in life, ask yourself, I remember hearing this question one time, if you're so smart, why aren't you winning? And as you pull the thread far enough, you can always bring it back to yourself. So I hope this episode has been a reminder to go do the work that's needed to put in the effort to build your legacy and to never settle. This has been the JP now podcast, episode 130.