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JP Dinnell Podcast
Try Harder | The Garage Gym Athlete | Jerred Moon | JP Dinnell Podcast 065
01:42:45
JP Dinnell sits down with strength coach and podcaster, Jerred Moon of the . Jerred talks about his training in the US Air Force Fighter Pilot School and why he now devoted his life to helping others improve theirs. Check out Jerred's stuff: More...
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- [00:00]
A
Good morning. This is the JP Donnell podcast, episode 65. I am JP Donnell, and as always, I have Lucas with me this morning. We also have the pleasure of having Jared Moon with us. Jared is an Air Force veteran, a business owner, a business coach, author of the book Killing Comfort and the book the Garage Gym athlete. He is a strength and conditioning coach, has been on Inc 502 different times. He hosts the Better Human podcast. He is a father and a husband. J. Jared, thank you for taking the time to join us this morning. How are you doing?
- [00:32]
B
I'm doing well, man. Thanks for having me. I'm really excited to be here.
- [00:35]
A
I know it's gonna. You know, it was pretty cool. You commented on one of my Instagram posts about getting a workout together because, you know, now that we're neighbors, it's pretty sweet. We're slowly getting to know each other, and two of my friends reached out. They're like, how do you know this guy? I'm like, well, he's my neighbor. They're like, bro, I've been following his stuff for a long time. So it was really cool to, you know, as I've been learning more about you and just what you've done, just to see the impact that you've had across this nation is really cool in the, you know, strength and conditioning world. Those are the connections that I had. Lucas, what's up, buddy?
- [01:09]
C
What's going on, man?
- [01:10]
A
Good morning.
- [01:11]
C
Is it.
- [01:12]
A
It is. It is. We choose. We choose for it to be.
- [01:15]
C
All right, I'm still undecided. I know I'm shifting that direction.
- [01:20]
A
All right, Jared, what was your childhood like? Where are you from?
- [01:24]
B
I'm from all over, so I was actually born in Germany. My dad was a helicopter pilot in the army, and so we moved around a lot, and we. So we did. Yeah. Born in Germany, Alabama, twice. Because that's where they do helicopter training, pilot training. And so he was instructor there. He did his training there. We lived in Fort Irwin, California, which is super fun. Texas, Canada. Like, we were just all over the place. But we. We landed here in Texas, this area, when I was about in, like, seventh, eighth grade. And then I pretty much. He got out of the military. He took a job here. And then I've been. I've been here pretty well, other than my military. Like, yeah, I was here. Went to school in Texas, Texas Tech. And then we came back just because of family and everything. But childhood, in honesty, was. Was good. Growing up in this area, for the most part, like, moving around a lot taught me a lot about how to make friends and like how to insert yourself into situations. And you know, even though I. A little bit more introverted, like I have the extrovert flex when I, when I need to, you know, when I need to push that button, I will. But overall, really supportive parents and good upbringing overall.
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A
So you had that, you have that hybrid capability.
- [02:34]
B
Yeah.
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A
Your natural tendency is like a little more introvert, but you rec. You have the ability to recognize, hey, when I have to be an extrovert to either build a relationship, work through a problem, or just kind of blend in with the people around you, you.
- [02:48]
B
Can do that 100%. And that's huge. That's what I'm trying to teach my oldest son because my younger two are a little bit more extroverted. Especially my middle, he's like, he needs people, he just has to be around people. But my oldest, he's like, well, you're more like me. You're introverted. I'm like, yeah, but I had to learn some other things to be able to insert myself into conversations and just my experience in the military, everything. Like, I had to be a little bit extroverted. And so working through that with him has been a challenge. But he'll get there eventually.
- [03:17]
A
That's awesome. And he's only, he's 12. Yeah. So there's some time.
- [03:21]
B
Yeah.
- [03:22]
A
That's awesome. What was your favorite duty station for your dad? For you as a kid?
- [03:28]
B
You know, probably Fort Irwin. As like, I think as a kid it was fun. Going as an adult, it's like, oh, wow, this place is crappy. Yeah. But we, you know, when you don't have anything else to do that you just get a really tight knit community. And so we had really great friends and we did like, it was just me and my brother, you know, like, we just hung out every single day. There was nothing else for him to do. Really. There's nothing else for me to do. So we just, we got really close and my brother and I have always been really close. But you know, the friends that we made, the fun things that we did off in the desert and all this kind of stuff, like, it was just, it was a good time.
- [04:01]
A
Overall, I bet there was some shenanigans going on.
- [04:03]
B
Oh yeah.
- [04:04]
A
Those deserts as a kid and it.
- [04:05]
B
Was literally like desert. It was like our, our backyards. Like we lived on base, but it's like, you know, my, my dad's like our house and then just behind us was just miles and miles of desert and they just let us go play back There, you know, which. Which is fine. But, like, I didn't. I don't think about these things till I'm a parent today. I'm like, there's probably a ton of rattlesnakes and, like, you know, all sorts of dangerous stuff back there. They'd never, you know, they never cared. Which, hey, we ended up fine.
- [04:28]
A
But, yeah, I think I think about the same things as a parent, you know, like, you know, the property that backs up behind both of our properties. It's like, sometimes our kids are like, hey, we're going back there. And I'm like, okay. You know, but it's like, hey, do you have your. Do you have your boots on? You know, snakes and stuff like that. But I think that's also part of just, you know, letting kids experience life and go out there. And kids know when they're doing something kind of dangerous.
- [04:56]
B
Yeah, they. They have that. That sense, that radar, you know, especially. I've probably overdone it on that side with my kids. I'm trying to undo it a little bit. It's like, I'm always trying to prepare for, like, worst case scenario and everything. And I think to a certain degree that's it's good, but at the same time, it's like they're a little, like, too cautious with things because of basically.
- [05:19]
A
My influence, you know, 100% the same with our kids, where I'm like, okay, we need to undo a few things.
- [05:25]
B
Yeah.
- [05:25]
A
Because. And I agree 100% with you. I think it's good to think that way. It's smart to be prepared and have plans and things, but if you're constantly like, hey, hey, hey, hey, you know, and, you know, my wife will correct me, and I'll correct my wife as well. There will be times, you know, she's getting on the girls, and I'm like, hey, remember when you were in junior high? She's like, well, it's different. I'm like, I know it's different, however, and we'll talk through it. And so I know we'll get into your wife a little bit, but do you and your wife parent pretty similarly with your kids? Or how does that. How's that?
- [05:59]
B
Yeah, I would say so. She. I am definitely more hands off. She's more hands on. Like, we're both pretty. Like, I would say strict, and, like, you follow the rules. That kind of parenting style we agree on. We do all the hard things when it comes to parenting. Like, if it's the tough decision, then. Then we do it, you know, like, Just the harder thing. And that goes with their. Their diets, their sleep, their screens. Like, all of those things, we make the. The hard decisions, and in all of those ways, we're very much the same. But one thing that's kind of always gotten to her is, like, I take kind of that approach of, like, don't help them too much, you know, and so I always let them struggle a little bit. But I may have maybe did that at too young of an age to where she was like, I get what you're trying to do, but he doesn't even know how to tie his shoes. So you can't sit here and say, tie your shoes. I'm like, well, he might figure out some way to string them together if, you know. And so I've been really overboard with that. But now she's on that same page, especially as they're older. Like, don't help. Just, like, let them. Let him.
- [06:57]
A
Let him figure it out. I like that. Is there a childhood memory that you have that when you look back and you think about it, you recognize that it helped shape who you are now as a parent, and then for what you do in business, maybe as a.
- [07:13]
B
Parent, you know, I think a lot of my dad, something I just really remember about him is, like, I always was asking why? You know, to that annoying level that kids do. But for a long time, probably past the age of like five or six, I just. And he always was patient and took the time to answer those questions. And he's, like, very intelligent guy, so he'd always explain things in really great detail and never get, like, frustrated or tell me, like, you know, you know, what to go do something else. Like, he would always take the time to answer those questions. And I. I really appreciated that. And I know that's something I want to bring to my kids is like, I try to explain anything that they ask almost to an annoying level for them probably to, like, we get it. Like, I just kind of wanted to know how that worked again, so I'll keep explaining it. So on the parenting side, that's for sure. In the life side, I had a second cousin. We went on this beach trip. I think I was, like a freshman in high school, super skinny, super scrawny guy. And he was like. He was in the Navy, and then he got out and became, like, this professional bodybuilder. He was just like, this really jacked dude. And he just looked at me. He's like, you're too skinny. You need to work out. And I was like, okay, how do I do that. He's like, I'll send you some stuff when. When you get home. It was, like, in the mail. You know, there's no Internet, like, emailing it to me. And I waited for weeks, and he finally got around to sending me these packets. But, like, that started my journey, and, like, passion for fitness was just. And there was no offense taken and him being like, you look awful. It was just like, how do I. Like, what do I do? Because, like, as a young man, you might have interest in that stuff already. And he was just like, you need to do something about it. And so I did.
- [08:52]
A
Yeah. And, you know, there's a healthy balance, and I want people. And I say that because I want people to take what I'm saying the right way. I don't know of any young men that are out there wanting to be skinny.
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B
Yeah.
- [09:04]
A
You know what I mean? Like, when you're. You want to put on muscles, you want to put on muscle mass, you know, like, that's what guys want. And the way he said it to you clearly had a pretty dynamic impact on you.
- [09:15]
B
I'll never forget it.
- [09:16]
A
Oh, goodness. What was high school like? Where were you stationed at?
- [09:21]
B
We were here. I was in Flower Mound, so Flower Mound High School is where I went. I. It's almost like I had two different high school experiences. There's, like, the freshman sophomore, and then the junior senior year. My brother was really big into skateboarding, and so, like, when we were younger, and so I was into skateboarding because my brother was into skateboarding, and so I did all that kind of stuff. But there was certain other habits that came with skateboarders in general at that time that I was not interested in people.
- [09:50]
C
You know, Scott, music.
- [09:52]
B
The music was the thing I was a part of, you know, like, smoking, drinking, those kinds. I just wasn't as. Like, I wasn't into those. Into those things. And so that was the first part of high school. I was more of, like, this skater guy, like, you know, and then once I started working out after, my cousin was like, you need to do something about yourself. And then I. So I did. And then I became more of a jock the last two years. And so running track and field, working out all the time, all those kind of things was the. The second half of high school, and I. It made me be able to blend in with basically anybody in the high school because, like, I was friends with the jocks, I was friends with the skaters and everybody in between, and so it gave me just a really good, like, high school experience. Because I was just kind of friends with everybody to some degree, you know, and that being able to. Also coming from that military background, moving around a lot with my parents, like, I kind of already had that. But then actually being in those circles at different times, you know, like, really helped.
- [10:47]
A
That's cool. What. What was your event in high school?
- [10:53]
B
Track 100 and 400. Yeah. So speed and. You know, another thing I'll never forget about that is I wasn't the fastest guy. Like, there were some guys who ran like 10 flat in 100. I was like, running like, 11, 1, something like that. Nothing like crazy competitive and. Or I say 10 flat in the 10. Sorry. It was in high school. They weren't running Olympic times. And so we had some people who were really talented. They were already getting scouted by all these schools and stuff. So I was just trying to be competitive in the lower elevens. But the coach. The football coach would run the track team. And he was like, all right, we're going to decide who's going to the meet this weekend. And he's like, moon. I don't remember the other guy. I think his name was, like, Eddie or something like that. He's like, you guys are both, like, right on the cusp of even being allowed to be here. You're not quite fast enough. So it was the four by one, and he's like, you're both going to race the curve only in the hundred, and whoever wins gets to go to the meet. Whoever loses doesn't come to the meet. And. And I was like, okay. So we put on our track spikes and we take off on the curve, you know, like this race. And Eddie is behind me the whole way. I don't see him, which, in a race, good thing. I don't. I just don't see the guy. But then when we cur. We straighten out on that curve. He passes me by like, an inch, maybe, and it's like it was just over. And there was no, like, you know, some of the football team was out there watching, whatever. Like, all right, Eddie, you're. You're in the meat, Moon, you're not. Like, that's it. And that was the probably the best thing that ever happened to me because what I did from there was like, I really learned training because I researched everything I possibly could. I'm like, how do you actually get faster? I was just naturally fast. I never. Other than what the track coach told me to do. Like, I never, like, looked into, like, can you actually train for this? Can you do plyometrics can you squat? Like, I never looked into any of that stuff, but it's. It sent me off on this spiral of just learning all of those things. So it was like a combination of my second cousin getting me into the field, but more of, like, bodybuilding. And then it got more into strength and conditioning performance when I was like, can you actually train to run faster? Is that a thing? And then I started to learn all of those things and just completely fell in love with fitness and training and all that stuff.
- [13:09]
A
That's awesome. You would get along very well with my buddy, Jeremiah Chapman. He owns performance course.
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B
Okay. Yeah.
- [13:16]
A
And they go to our church, and we met because our kids actually went to school together when we lived in Roanoke. And then we ended up actually meeting. We were on a walk one day with our family, and we were walking through the COVID and the girls like, oh, there's, you know, his daughter's name. And we're sitting there and we're kind of talking and. And then we ended up, like, kind of putting the dots together and then go to Milestone as well. But, yeah, it's. The only reason I'm bringing that up is one. I think you guys would get along well. But it's very intriguing to me about what guys like you do and what Jeremiah does with his company is to help students actually learn how to be athletes.
- [13:58]
B
Right.
- [13:58]
A
Because there's. I mean, when I was in, there was none of that. I had it because of my dad, because my dad knew about those things and he would help teach me some things. But think about how much better prepared kids would be as athletes if they had access to your programs.
- [14:11]
B
Yeah. And they know the why behind things. Like, my. I'm starting to train my kids and my.
- [14:16]
A
I love watching you and your kids train in the driveway. I think it's the coolest thing to watch.
- [14:20]
B
Yeah. And it's. I mean, it's my favorite part. Like, Emily's amazing at the. The baby, the infant, the toddler. I'm not so great at those things as a parent, you know, Like, I do what I can to help, but, like, this is the stage where I'm like, this is where I want to be a parent to, like, I want to. I want to teach them things. I want to, like, really guide them and mentor them. This is where I'm getting really excited and this is part of it. And William said something to me last night. He was like. I was like, you're basically going to train until you leave my house. Like, you'll be doing something with Me. And they love it, so it's not like they're getting forced to do it. He's like, I better write down all my workouts. Because he's like, once I don't have you anymore, like, I want to, like, be able to know what I'm doing. And I'm like. I was like, don't worry, bro. I'll teach you how to make these workouts on your own. You're not going to need to write it all down. Like, you'll know exactly why these things are put together this way and all that kind of stuff. And so that's kind of the education I'm trying to give them as well.
- [15:14]
A
That had to have tugged at your heartstrings also.
- [15:17]
B
Oh, for sure.
- [15:17]
A
I'm getting teared up. You tell me about something your son said to you. I could only imagine. So what led you to joining the military? Was it right after high school? No. You went to college because you were an officer in the Air Force. So what was your transition to college and then in the military? Was the military always on the radar, or did that come about?
- [15:39]
B
Kind of. My dad was in the military. He retired as a colonel. And he just told me, my brother, not to join the military. Like, he was just like, just don't. Just don't do it. Go do something else. And. And so we both kind of were like, okay, yeah, we'll do something else. But then my brother was like, I'm gonna join the military. And my dad was like, fine. He's like, if you guys are gonna do it, be officers. Don't be enlisted, okay? Like, these are my only requests. And he was like, my brother's like, no, he enlists in the military, in the Army. And then that's what really, like, sparked it back up for me, because I just thought I was gonna do something else with fitness. You know, when I was, like, about a junior, I was like, I don't know what I'm gonna do, but I think I. Something with fitness. And then once he joined the army and he had deployed several times, I was like, I want to do this too, but I want to listen to my dad. Like, I'll go in as an officer. And I wanted to fly. I kind of. I kind of always had that idea of wanting to be a fighter pilot, but I never knew how to. Like, I had never really looked into it. Like, I never really thought. Like, I thought that was for other people. You know, people were better than me, more advanced than me, like, whatever. Those people can be fighter pilots. I can't be a fighter pilot. But then once I had someone actually explain the process of becoming a fighter pilot to me, I'm like, okay, like, let's do that. So I went to Texas Tech University and joined ROTC to pursue being a fighter pilot. And so that was. That was kind of like the. It was always on the radar just because of the family background. But then it got more serious as I was actually having to think towards the end of high school, like, what am I going to do with my life? You know?
- [17:13]
A
What helicopters did your dad fly?
- [17:15]
B
He flew Huey's predominantly. And that little. I forgot the name. It's like a little bubble looking thing. It's like where guys like stand on the side, like with machine gun or whatever. Yeah, so those. Those are the two aircraft he flew primarily.
- [17:29]
A
That's awesome. Okay, so Texas Tech, you said? And then you decide you're gonna go in the Air Force.
- [17:35]
B
Yep.
- [17:36]
A
You get commissioned. What was your journey into the military like?
- [17:40]
B
Well, I'll go back to rotc. It was kind of, you know, funny experiences. Like, even when we got in, people were like. They acted like. It was like this mysterious process of who got selected for a pilot slot and who did it, because it's not everybody.
- [17:54]
A
Yeah, and what year is this again? I'm sorry?
- [17:56]
B
I was in College from 2006 to 2010.
- [17:58]
A
Okay, cool.
- [18:00]
B
So. And that's where everyone. That's just how everyone treated it. Who I'd talk to, they'd be like, you know, whatever. A hundred people apply and yet 10 of you are gonna get it or whatever. That's just how it worked. And I was like, there's gotta. I just don't feel like that's how the military works. There's gotta be some sort of process. And I was like, it wasn't like confidential or classified. I just found it. And it was called the Pixum, the Pilot Candidate Selection Method. And it had broken down how you get. And I found this as a freshman is like how you get selected. And it was 50% commander's rating. Like 20 or 15% was your last PT score right before you go up for selection. 25% was this test called the T. Bas which is test of Basic Aviation Skills. And the last was the Air Force Officer Qualifying Test. And I was like, okay, now I know what to reverse engineer, like for all these things. The hardest one is the Commander because it's 50% of your ratings and there's no, like, check the box there. But I was like, well, I talked to my dad, you know, Prior colonel, he's like, you just gotta impress the hell out of that man the whole time you're there. Like, so you need to get the best possible gpa. You need to do the best in your ROTC classes. You need to get the best possible PT score and show him all of these things. He's like, that's your best bet in like. Cause you don't get a lot of one on one time with a commander. It's like he just kind of observed you from afar your whole time, you know. And so anyway, I, I did really well at all those things. I was very fit. So I always max out the PT test. Air Force officer qualifying test. I did great on that. And then commander's rating was looking good. Even though, like, I didn't know 100% where I was at. I was like, I got to be somewhere, somewhere in the top. Because we had, there were scholarships and there were only two given for a full ride. And it like out of hundreds of cadets and I was one of the two who was given. So I was like, I think this guy likes me a little bit, you know. But then once it got to the T bass, which is the test of basic aviation skills. You can only take this test twice. And once you take it, you're not allowed to talk to anybody about it. You can't talk to any other cadet about it. It's like, yeah, you know, sign all the waivers, whatever, and like, you're not supposed to talk about it. So no one gives me any intel on it. I go in there and even the sergeant who was administering the test, he was like, I can't tell you anything about it. I was like, but I'm about to take it. Like, just, can you tell me what it is? He's like, it's. You just kind of like they test your hand eye coordination and stuff. And I was like, okay. So there's no preparation I could have done for this test. I'm like, we just get in here. And so he fires up the computer. It turns on and there's a joystick and there's rudder pedals under the thing. I'm like, okay. And I'm just like reading the computer screen and I'm hitting like forward, forward, forward. Like should have been reading the instructions. Was not reading the instructions. Because I think I'm about to just like test my hand eye coordination. But then I jump into 300 questions of a directional orientation test where it's like, what they do is they give you a heading and then they'll be like, based off of this heading, where would this, like, I think they called the parking lot or whatever. Where would the parking lot be if you were, you know, heading this direction? In the parking lot is this direction. And you have to very quickly, like, snap, oh, here, here, here. And since I didn't read the instructions, I didn't even know what is that asking me the first. There's 300 questions. I'm like, probably 30, 40 deep. And I'm, like, guessing. It's like, wrong, wrong, wrong. I'm like, well, and you can't go back. So I'm like. And what I also didn't know is it's timed. So they're like, if you spend more than probably two seconds on a. On a question, your score is going down. You have to be able to answer these, like, quick, quick fire. And then it gets to this, like, hand eye coordination test after the fact, I bombed it. And then it was like. I was like, okay. I basically had a zero on that thing. Like, I guess I should start looking at different career fields. I really only had the pilot one mapped out.
- [21:41]
A
Okay, so the reason why I'm laughing is I wonder how many people have that experience the very first time. Do you think that's by design? Probably just to see how you handle failure.
- [21:52]
B
Yeah. Okay, well, and here's what I did from that. I go home, and I'm actually pretty, like, upset. I'm like, I might not be a pilot. And this isn't like, you. You did it, like, my freshman year. It's like, I'm getting towards the end, like, ready to go in, And I'm like, oh, great. You know, I'm about to go up for selection, but you can take it twice. And there's, like, this washout period, but it's not very long. And so I was like, okay. I was taking a shower, and it just hit me, and I was like, that's what they were asking me. Like, I just fully understood the test. I was like, it's a compass. There's a. You know, the. The degree heading. Like, I finally. It just all clicked. I even. So I. I went down and I rewrote the test. All 300 questions. Not because I had memorized them. It's because I. I understood the pattern that they had set up. It was like, it was just a directional orientation, and then you had to find, like, the opposite. And then they would try and confuse where you're at. So, like, I wrote down the whole thing, and I was like, got it. I know exactly what this is.
- [22:47]
A
You know that's not normal, right? Okay. I just want you to acknowledge the fact that you recognize it, which is great. You recognize. Okay, that's what this is. But for you to have the ability to have been able to retain all that in that stressful situation and then regurgitate it later is absolutely incredible.
- [23:07]
B
Yeah, that was a godsend, for sure. It was just, like, came out of nowhere.
- [23:10]
A
Oh, yeah, there's those 300 questions in my brain. I got it.
- [23:14]
B
Well, and then I reached out to my dad, who, like, became like a computer whiz post army. And I was like, big shocker. I was like, dad, do you think? I was like, here's what the. I was like, I got the directional orientation part. I was like, do you think you could build some rudimentary, like, joystick thing? So what it was on the test was like, you basically, with the joystick, they have, like, pong. It's like this ball going around, but you have to keep these crosshairs on the ball the whole time. But then they add complexity to it over time. So it's like when I explain this test to people, I'm like, it's like you're driving a stick shift. But then it's like they. Someone, like, they keep throwing more at you, like, after you start to get the hang of it, and they you. There's no passing the test. It's go to until you fail. And the longer it takes you to fail, the higher your score is there. But there is no winning. There's no, like, oh, you won. You got it. So what they do is level one is just joystick crosshairs on the ball. And then it's like, okay, now there's a ball at the bottom going back and forth. And you have to track that with the rudder pedals while you're doing the joystick. And so going back to the car example is like, it's like, okay, I'm doing a stick shift. And it's like, okay, now someone hands you a hamburger, and it's like, okay, eat the hamburger. Do the stick shift going down the highway. It's like, okay, you got that? Okay, here's a drink. Now do the stick shift. Drink your drink, have a hamburger. You know, all these kind of things, they just keep adding more and more. And then eventually something will flash on the screen. It'll be like one code. And it'll be like, if an emergency comes up, here's your code. And then it's like, okay. And then that goes away. And then You're. You're going down. Take it, you know, doing the joystick or whatever. Then it'll red flash, emergency. And then you have to enter the code or enter the code with your left hand while you're still flying and doing the rudder pedals. And then the complexity is they just keep going down that, like, memorization path where they're like, okay, this emergency is this code, this emergency is this code. Until you're at, like, seven, eight deep on the emergency level. And then it's just. It's hectic by the end because you're trying to quickly memorize these codes while going, doing all these things, entering in the codes. Red flash. Okay, it was this emergency, Enter the code. You just keep going. And so it's a really crazy test. And I was like. I was like, I don't think you can help me with the emergency test part of this, dad. But, like, do you think you can at least so I can practice hand eye coordination with easy. I was like, do you think you can do the rudder pedal thing and the joystick thing? And he's like. He's like, yeah, I could do that. I could build that. So he actually built it for me. And so he built this, like, small computer program, gave it to me. I rewrote the 300 questions. I, like, laminated them, had them printed. I would tie myself every night. I'm like. And until I could get it down to where every question was basically like, not. I wasn't thinking about it. It was just like. And also, there was a. In the back of my head the whole time was like, what if you're wrong about those 300 questions? You know, like. And you just fly through this thing and, like, it's even worse. So I practice every night. I practice for hours a day. And so I go back into this test, I'm allowed to take it my second time. And I was right about the. About the test, about the 300 directional orientation questions. I nailed every single one of those. I finished it, like, as fast as you possibly could crush the basic, you know, hand eye coordination test with the emergency codes. I did great. So then I basically maxed it out. I went from, like, having the lowest score you could possibly get to, like, the highest score you could possibly get on the T bass. And I asked my dad. I was like. I was like, dad, my only concern is, like, did I just cheat? You know, is that cheating? And he's like. He's like, look, the. The military, all they really care about is if you're trainable he's like. And that's what you've demonstrated to a large degree. He's like, you don't need to go tell your commander that you memorize the codes. But he's like, it's not like you were breaking into the detachment and, like, firing up this computer that has a test. And he's like, you just memorize these things. So, like, there's nothing against the rules on that. He's like.
- [26:57]
A
Which is a skill set, I guarantee you. They want and need.
- [27:00]
B
Yeah. Like, I think if they had figured it out, they probably wouldn't have been able to, like, get me with anything anyway. I think the colonel would have just been impressed more than anything else. But that. That was my dad's take, which kind of led me. I was like, okay, is if. If nobody thinks I'm cheating, then, like, I'm good to go. Uh, so anyway, that led me to ultimately being selected not just for pilot training. There's pilot training in the Air Force, and then there's another program called Euronato Joint Jet Pilot Training Inject. And they typically only take, like, the top 1 5% of. Of all the pilots, like, most people want to go to in Jept, and it's in Wichita Falls, Texas. And the reason people want to go is it's guaranteed fighter bomber. And at least it was when I was there. I'm sure things change or whatever, but. Yeah, yeah. And so you. If you want to know how pilot training works, you can go anywhere else. You can do your best. I mean, you could be the best pilot there. But then you get to your drop night, and it's like, we don't have any fighter slots, so you could be the best one there. And you're flying a C17, which there's nothing wrong with that. It's just a matter of, like, if you came to be a fighter pilot, sometimes it's largely outside of your control. So that's why so many people want to go to Inject, because, like, my. My pilot training class, the drop was 100% fighter bomber. And so it's just like. It's totally different. And so I got selected for inject because I had maxed out all these things and just reverse engineered this. This method. But then I also, like, that kind of insecurity came back, and I was like, I'm just really good at, like, preparing for things, like, on the back end. Like, I don't know if I'm actually good like these other guys, because all the other guys who came to inject who Were. There were like, oh, you went to mit. Okay. You went to Harvard. Okay. You have a thousand hours in commercial aircraft. Like, just all these people already were so experienced and so much smarter than me. I was like, I don't think. I don't think I'm supposed to be here. You know, just this huge imposter syndrome when. Even when I showed up to pilot training. But then that kind of. That stuff kind of slowly started to work itself out over time.
- [28:54]
A
That's awesome. Yeah. I think my cousin went there.
- [28:58]
B
Oh, really?
- [28:58]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, yeah, he. Yeah, everything you're saying is, like, tracking with the stories. Like, he told me during that same time frame, it was the same thing. Like, guys there. He's like, I don't know if I'm supposed to be here.
- [29:12]
B
Yeah. I was like, how did. How did this happen? You know, because some of them were so advanced, and flying was such an afterthought for them, and for the rest of us, it was like. I had. I flew in college. My dad actually set that up. He's like. He's like, you say you want to be a pilot, but you've never flown before. Like, how do you think fighter pilots are cool? He's like, that's. That's it. That's all you're going on. He's like, let's get you some time in the aircraft. So I got like, 20 or 30 hours, like, in a. In a Piper in Lubbock, Texas, just to fly. And I was like, no, I actually really like this. And he's like, cool. He's like, then. Then go for it, you know? And so ended up flying. But I got hurt during that time frame, like, pretty late in pilot training. And what ended up happening was basically like a sports hernia. You know, it was like a. And the funny thing is, I got to fly in an F16, probably about a year, two years before I went to pilot training, and I knew something wasn't right when I was in the F minus 16. Like, I. We pulled a lot of GS, and I had a lot of pain, like, in my lower abdomen. I was like. I was like, whatever, you know? Like, I'm. I'm probably fine, you know? Like, it's. I wouldn't worry about it, but it always put this thing in the back of my head. I was like, what was that? Is that gonna be like my life, like, is like, that just gonna be, like, my thing? And then that slowly started to work itself further and further into my flying experience, you know, like, you're not pulling a lot of G's every single minute, you know, through a sortie. It's like occasionally here and there. And at first I was like, no, I'll be fine. Like, I'll tough this out. But it just got worse and worse to like one. One flight we were on. I was just like, I gotta call it. Like, I got. We gotta go back. Like. And that was. That started the whole thing of, like, me having to have surgery and like, all this stuff. And. And so they fixed it, fixed the. What they thought was the issue. And then they had to send me to the centrifuge to like, okay, we'll test you in the centrifuge. Like 8, 9G profile, which is what a fighter would fly. And like, we'll see. See how you do. And they do all these different methods of like, just versus straight on. Then you have to put your. Your head up into the right, up into the left to make sure you're not going to pass out and all these things. And like, I. I passed all of them. I didn't pass out. Like, very, like, minimal pain, like, from like probably like an 8 down to like a 1 or 2 is like, but. But still some pain. And so then I'm talking to the. The flight doc after, and he's like, how was it? And I was like. I was like, that's great. Like, I was like, nowhere near as painful as it was previously. He's like, nowhere near or no pain. And I was like, what? I said, yeah. Yeah. I was like, no. And I was honest with him, part of me, because, like, I didn't know if I wanted to be a fighter pilot, if, like, that problem was gonna come back. I'm like, there's no enjoyment in this process, like, pulling GS and, like, just feeling pain.
- [31:58]
A
Your insides ripping.
- [31:59]
B
Yeah, right.
- [32:00]
A
You weren't, like, wanting that to happen.
- [32:02]
B
Yeah. And so I was like, I was like, nowhere near as much pain. Very manageable. And he's like, okay. And then they kind of went back and made their decision. And ultimately I couldn't fly anymore. But. And it was a weird time frame because going back to that 2010 or it's really 2008 to 2012, the Air Force was going through a really weird thing with fighter pilots because I talk about this more today, and some people try and put it through, like, the Air Force lens of today, and I'm. I'm not as up on, like, what's going on in the Air Force, but I know they've been hurting for Pilots for a while, and they will. It's a lot more like, let's get them in. I mean, people are still very qualified, but they need people. They're throwing massive bonuses at people who, like, they just need to stick around because, like, they messed up too, around that time frame of like, ops tempo too high. And he's like, well, these people have great career opportunities outside the Air Force, so they're just gonna jump if you don't take care of them. And that's what a lot of people did. So they started all these, like, bonuses anyway. They were like. I was like, can I just transfer to, like, a low G aircraft? I was like, I'll fly something heavy. I'll fly a helicopter. I was like, super interested in helicopters because my dad, I was like, I want to do that, you know?
- [33:10]
A
Yeah. And you're a red blooded American boy.
- [33:12]
B
Yeah. And so, like, they basically. You can't fly a high G aircraft anymore. I was like, that's fine. Like, let me. Let me go this other direction. Let me fly something else. And then it just came down to where they were like, no, if you don't graduate from in Jep, you're not graduating, period. And people have always been like, super. Like, how, like, how'd that happen? I'm like, that was a time in the Air Force where they were ripping F16 pilots out of the cockpit to put them in UAVs. Like, they were just doing all sorts of weird things. There were a ton of, like, budgetary and furlough things going on. Like, I was there, like, sitting outside when the major's having the conversation with, like, the command about me, and I hear them yelling that on the phone, like they're sick of transferring people out and the cost that it is to get someone from like, this pilot training to, like, another pilot training and stuff and not. I was like, okay. And so, like, I was very much just a product of my current circumstance. I think two years before, two years after, I'd probably be flying something else, you know?
- [34:07]
A
What time frame did you meet your wife and where did you meet her?
- [34:10]
B
I met her at Texas Tech University, 2010. So, right freshman year, we met.
- [34:16]
A
So that wouldn't have impacted you meeting your wife, however that would have been, had a major impact on your family.
- [34:23]
B
Yeah. Family, career, like, everything would have been different. Yeah. Yeah.
- [34:28]
A
It's hard to see it when it's happening, but now you can step back and say, all right, Lord, I see the bigger picture.
- [34:34]
B
Yeah. I'm just so happy with how things have Turned out. And so I can't. And all of my friends are our pilots. Like, they're either still active fighter pilots or flying something different in the Air Force or they've gotten out and they've. They're pursuing, you know, aviation with the, the airlines or like, whatever. And that it all sounds great, it's a great career field, but I could just tell is something I would not have been interested in. Like, I think I would have been a fighter pilot and then left and done something else. I. I don't think I could have ever done aviation outside the military just because it just. It just doesn't interest me at all. And so I'm not saying I would have wasted my time. It would have been a great experience to have gone through all that. But what I built instead was so much better for my family and put us in such a better, like, financial position and everything else.
- [35:22]
A
Yeah. And, you know, you said you're thankful for the way things worked out. Well, the reason why things have worked out the way that they have for you and your family is because you've put in the work.
- [35:31]
B
Right?
- [35:31]
A
You, you weren't a victim to your circumstance. You said, okay, this is what's going on. What can I do with this situation? What type of work do I now need to put in?
- [35:40]
B
Yeah. And that. People ask me that all the time too. They're like, did you like, go through, like a depressed period or anything? I was like, no, I had to, I had to start move. Like, I'd immediately get like, what's the next plan? And that's what I started to craft. And so they left me in the pilot training world for a little bit. I was running, like, they call them rsu, like Runway supervisory units, where, like, it's like air traffic control. But they let, like, they let student pilots do it. I mean, really, there's not a lot of qualification other than like, being selected to be in there. So you're actually directing the air traffic for the local sorties, you know, nothing outside of. So I did that for a while. But they're like, we can't keep you here. Like, you gotta go. You gotta go be in the air force. You're an officer. You gotta go do something. Like, what are you gonna do? And I was like, I really want to be a pj. I was like, if I can't. If I can't do this, like, if I can't fly, I want to be a pj. And they're like, okay, well, we're the selections, like, for Crow which is combat, rescue officer are few and far between for, you know, compared to enlisted. So we're. You're gonna have to wait. Like, it's not till, like, next year or something, and we can't wait. You can't just, like, stay here and do nothing. You know what I'm saying? You need an actual job. And I was like, okay, what can I do? And they're like, we have two career fields, open intel or public affairs. And I was like, how long are their schools? And they were like, intel. I think intel was, like, 14 months or something like that, and public affairs was three. And I was like, I'll do public affairs while I put together my crow package. I just wanted something easy, like, non. Like, intel is not. Like, intel's not a career field you walk into, and you're like, I'm just gonna coast. And no offense to any public affairs officers out there. I'm not saying it's easy, but it was not as hard to get through, especially the. Just the training I went through. And, like, that training was so hard for me to get through mentally, in all honesty, because there. What. That was the only difficult time period I had of, like, man, I was like, I. I was, like, pulling GS and, like, living the dream type to, like, I'm studying, like, you know, foreign relations and, like, communication. And I just did not like it. But the. The good part about it was their stressful environment was, like, getting in front of a camera, you know, And I was like, this is. If this is the worst my day gets, like, from a stress standpoint, this is gonna be easy. And that was. That proved to be true as I went through public affairs training and ultimately became public affairs officer at the end, because all I wanted to do was, you know, be a pj. Like, that's what I started to try and optimize for. And the guy who, like, sent me off into the career field, he's like, here's what I'll do. I'll put you at the special tactics base in the Air Force. He's like, as a public affairs officer, he's like, because I know what you like. I was very open with him, what I want to do. He's like, I know what you want to do. Build the relationships there. Like, do what you have to do. And that's exactly what I did for, like, a year, was just built the relationships. I actually moved from 1 Wing to the 24 Special Operations Wing as it was being stood up. Made really good relationships with the commander. That's the best thing about being a public affairs officer is every room I sit in is like 06 or higher. Yeah. Like, I. You're not. There's no one else. Like, it was just me and a bunch of like, brass. You know, it's like a, like top level people. So the relationships I'm building are not like, with another lieutenant or captain who's.
- [38:55]
A
Like, of actual influence.
- [38:56]
B
Yeah. And so I was building the right relationships and that was going down a really good path. And then it just came to a point where I kind of also saw the reality of. Of the military where it was like, my brother spent. Did two 18 month deployments, had a lot of issues, got blown up several times. Like TBIs. One of his legs is 3 inches shorter than the other. Like, he just had a lot of things happen to him. And then I also saw it in the special tactics side, you know, going to funerals, talking to families, all these things. And I. I don't want to say those things scared me away from it, but I had two kids at this point, and I was like, is this really what you want to do? Yeah, you know, is it? Because, like, I had. I started like, doing things online a little bit. I was probably still the most passionate about fitness. You know, like, that's what I really wanted to. So that was my. The first almost was fighter pilot. The second almost is PJ because like, I set everything up, had great relationships with a commander. And then it came down to the wire. His name was. He's General Armfield. He's still in. He was like, I want you to be my aide. He's like, I'm going to Afghanistan. For like, it was long. It was like 18 months or 18 months plus. He's like, I want you to be my aide. And I was like, I had not told anybody. I was thinking about separating. And I was like, I was like, yes, sir. Like, I'll absolutely go do be your aide. I was like, but just so you know, like, it was like the same day. I was like, I'm also dropping my paperwork to separate. I was like, so I need to know, like, what I. What I need to do. Because, like, it was like the exact same time he told me. And like, I was doing it, but I didn't tell anybody I was separating, period. Because that was the advice given to me was like, don't tell anybody you're separating. Just like, at all, except you drop the paperwork when you have to because everyone will start treating you differently. And that was factual and that was very true because like, he went from, like, really liking me, wanted me to be his aide, you know, in Afghanistan, to. He's like, well, do you want to go? I was like, it sounds like amazing opportunity. Yes, I want to go. He's like, but you don't want to be in the military anymore? I was like. I was like, yeah, but I was like, that has nothing to. I've just, like, my career has not worked out how I want it to, like, and I don't think I want to go down the PJ route anymore. I was like, but this sounds like an amazing opportunity. And he's like. He's like, okay, let me think about it. And then he came back the next day, and he's like. He's like, you know what? I. He's like, you were kind of like a. An odd choice anyway, because, like, I was. He didn't choose, like, some special tactics officer to go with him. It was. I was a captain, public affairs. But like I said, I'd built those relationships up. He really liked me. I PT'd with them all the time and stuff, so built a lot of good relationships. But ultimately he's like, that's fine.
- [41:39]
A
I'll.
- [41:39]
B
I'll pick one of these other special tactics officers if you're, like, really trying to. Trying to leave. And I was like, roger that. And so then after that, I pulled the. Pull the trigger and got out.
- [41:48]
A
Cool. What was the transition like out Once you dropped that package, you know, I.
- [41:53]
B
It couldn't be more different than, like, things I was doing in the military because I went into, like, this world almost immediately. Like, podcasting.
- [42:02]
A
What year was this?
- [42:03]
B
2014. Yeah, so I started podcasting, blogging, doing online training before. It was, like, really a popular thing. So it was. It was quite a transition. And I also went from, like, leadership positions to just me. Right. It's like, you know, having people underneath you, which. That was my favorite part of the military was like, after I realized I couldn't do some of the things I wanted to do, I was like, flex the leadership muscle a little bit. Let's practice that, you know? And so I got to do a lot of those things. And then it just went from, like, that to. It's just, you figure it all out. And so the transition was fine from a figuring it out standpoint, but financially, it was really rough, incredibly stressful. Like, we were only ever, like, each month was questionable for a while, like, whether or not we were going to make payments on all of our bills and stuff. Luckily, in the military, we had paid off all of our debt. So, like, I was in a really good situation to. To take on that risk.
- [43:06]
A
Yeah.
- [43:07]
B
But it was. It was really stressful for a while.
- [43:10]
A
Yeah. I remember watching one of your videos on your YouTube page, which you're. The value you put out in your YouTube page. I'm sorry, Your Instagram page is incredible.
- [43:19]
B
Thank you.
- [43:21]
A
And I remember you put out a video about when you're in the military, instead of doing what everybody else does is, you know, getting the new vehicle or something else. Like, you had an older used vehicle that you paid off and you eliminated your debt before you got out of the military. Correct.
- [43:37]
B
Correct. Because I knew that that's what I was like, that's the direction I think I was gonna go was like, I think I'm gonna try and be an entrepreneur after I get out. Like, I think that's what I wanna do. But I knew to check that box, I was gonna have to be prepared. I was gonna have to, like, reduce expenses and, like, all these things, like, we're gonna shrink down. And so, yeah, we worked really hard to pay off debt while I was active.
- [43:58]
A
That's so smart. Talk about discipline equals freedom.
- [44:00]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [44:01]
A
The freedom that. That gave you on the outside.
- [44:03]
B
Yeah. Because we did not need a lot. Like, I use the VA loan to. To buy our first house and, like, didn't put any money down.
- [44:10]
A
Which is one of the best benefits when you get out that VA home loan.
- [44:14]
B
Yeah.
- [44:14]
A
There's so many other hidden benefits in that loan that people don't know about.
- [44:18]
B
Yeah. Especially with how hard it is for people to get approved today and stuff. Like, just so fortunate, you know? And I think that was. That was great. Like, we didn't need a lot of money, and my wife was fully on board with, like, everything I was trying to do, which was good. Which back then was such a uncharted career path. It was like, I want to create content and, like, make a living. And it's like, what are you talking about? You want to write a blog and make money? Like, that doesn't work. Like, people don't do that, you know, so. But she was super supportive, which I'm very, very thankful for.
- [44:51]
A
That's incredible. Yeah. With the VA home loan for, you know, giving someone like you an opportunity when you get out where things are a little uncertain, to be able to get a home, to at least have that stability for your family is. Is huge. And like I said, the. The benefits of a VA home loan are, like, incredible. Like, when Amanda and I, when we bought our House. The interest rates were higher than what we wanted, but it was also like, okay, are we going to keep renting or we like, we've eventually got to do something. And what I didn't know when I was working with Andrew Paul, which Shout out to Andrew Paul and Benchmark Mortgage. Andrew and I were in the SEAL teams together. He was with us in tasking a producer. He was an officer in the SEAL teams. Helps, you know, he works at Echelon Front as well, but he's had a successful mortgage company since like 2010 timeframe, I believe, or maybe 2006. Anyways, one thing I didn't know about a VA home loan because I was like, man, this interest rate, like this is going to kill me long, long term. This is going to be stupid. He goes, no, no, no. With the va, but I know about refi and stuff like that. He goes, with the VA home loan. He goes, it's a one page document that you have access to. Now you can do this one time. Let's say I. Let's say my house was at like six, six and a half percent when we got that home loan, which is crazy high. And then all of a sudden now let's say in January, the rates drop down to like three or something. Somewhat decent. Okay. You sign a paper that you sign it, you get notarized, it's dated, you submit it, and your rate drops down to whatever that current rate is right away.
- [46:27]
B
Wow.
- [46:28]
A
With no need for a refi, no need for inspections, nothing. So the rate drops. You can only do this once with per VA home loan. So if whenever the rates drop down low enough, I'm gonna sign the paper, have it notarized and sent in and instant change of your rate.
- [46:45]
B
That's huge. I did not know that. Yeah, that's awesome.
- [46:48]
C
The NCCs don't get that kind of rate, that kind of privilege.
- [46:52]
A
Now you're gonna have to educate them on the NCCs.
- [46:54]
C
There's just a non commissioned civilian.
- [46:57]
B
Yeah. No such benefit, huh?
- [46:59]
C
No, no, there's not. I can tell you the kind of home loans that we get. That'll change our ratings.
- [47:06]
A
Yeah. All right, so you start the, you know, podcasting and blogging and creating content. What was that journey like in regards to building that business to the point where you're now coaching businesses and individuals and you guys have marketing strategies that you can put together for companies like what, what did that journey look like?
- [47:31]
B
You know, so I, like I said it started out kind of rough. I just really didn't know what I was doing. But I had a really great mentor at the time, time entrepreneur. It was like my mom's friend. And my mom was like, you should go, like, shadow her, like, whatever. Like she does something with real estate. She's pretty successful, I think, you know, I was like, okay, like, I'll go, I'll go check it out, see what she needs help with. And so I started working for her part time to try and make up the rest of like the, the monthly cash flow that I needed. And she wasn't like a little bit successful. My mom thought, like she sold houses. Like, it's like, no, she owns brokerages. Like she owns multiple real estate firms like around the nation. She has like hundreds of single family homes in the local area that she rents out. A lot of them own just outright in cash. I was like, wow, really successful person. And so I just, she said to me the day I showed up, she was like, she's like, look, you'll, you know, whatever, like, I'm going to pay you a fair wage, you know, for, for what you're doing. But she's like the most valuable thing that you'll get out of here is like, what you're going to learn. She's like, the books on the shelves, the conversations I have, like, that's what you need to pay attention to. And she was, yeah, she was gracious enough to say that, you know, because otherwise I would have just been like, just do, I'll do whatever you say. And then like, let me get out of here. But then she had this massive like library of books. I was, I read like almost all the books that she, every one she recommended, I read, you know, and then every conversation we had, I'm like writing things down. And she accelerated my entrepreneurial journey, like, whatever. She's been an entrepreneur like 30 years. She gave me like 30 years worth of like mistakes and mindset corrections and stuff all within like a six month to a year time timeframe. And it's because I was, she told me that at the beginning and I was willing to just be like, yeah, I know nothing. What do I learn? Because she also knew I was trying to do my own thing. And so she was just being really helpful. And I would say that was the biggest, like, factor that moved, moved me forward was just like understanding business a little bit more, having that mentor and then that, you know, kind of picking things up off, off the ground. From there, like, I just gained a lot more confidence and being able to execute. But it was still a hard Time, like, I started podcasting in 2014. First, very first episode was published in 2015, January. And again, like, it was. I don't want to say it was like, not a thing, but it just wasn't as popular like it was now. Like, almost anybody can start a podcast because it's very easy to start. Back then. It was the.
- [50:02]
C
This is the beginning of the curve. Right here is when. When you're talking about, like, that was.
- [50:07]
A
That's when Joe Rogan, Tim Ferriss, Jocko. I think that's when Jocko was on their podcast.
- [50:12]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
- [50:13]
A
And then he kicked his off.
- [50:14]
B
Yeah, I remember listening to a Tim Ferriss podcast with Jocko.
- [50:17]
C
That was the first one he did.
- [50:18]
B
Yeah, that was like. I heard that and got into a lot of, like, Jocko stuff, but I never knew if I was doing well because of how things were back then. Like, my. The. The platform we use is for podcasting wasn't a typical, like, what people would go sign up for today. It was like this third party. Like, I could publish a feed in my episodes, but I had no idea how many people were listening to it. And it wasn't until a friend sent me a screenshot. The first podcast I launched was called Better Humanology. And so it was a blend of just, like, self development and, like, you know, fitness and like, just anything we want to talk about. As me and a friend at the time, like, we. We just talked about those things. We had a bunch of guests on all this kind of stuff, but I had no idea how we were doing. So anyway, someone sent me a screenshot. They were like, your top three, like, in all of health and fitness right now. And then I was like. I was like, I think that's good. But I. But I wasn't selling anything. Like, I just was like, we just had. I didn't have anything to sell. Like, I did, but, like, I didn't know, like, oh, I could probably direct people from the podcast to go buy these things. Like, I just had a lot of, like, lessons to learn. Then we started to interweave those things, and it wasn't. It was funny because we then switched platforms to where, like, it was like, okay, now I can see how many downloads. And it was like, you know, just like, it started picking up all the downloads, and I can actually look at the data. And I was like, oh, wow. People were actually listening to this, you know, because there, again, there wasn't like, social media was a thing, but it wasn't a lot of interaction with people, like, saying, hey, yeah, like, awesome podcast. Like, we didn't get any of that feedback other than, like, emails that we'd get occasionally. But that takes a lot of work for somebody to be like, let me go find their email, because we weren't saying that on podcast. So anyway, it did a lot better than we thought, and it took us a while to figure out that it was even doing well and eventually able to. We never took on sponsors or anything, but we just pointed people to fitness programs that I had and things that we were doing in that world. So that. That's kind of how I got a start to it all. And it went pretty well, luckily.
- [52:09]
C
Well, yeah. No kidding, right?
- [52:11]
B
Yeah.
- [52:11]
C
Like, you guys are. You know, when JP and I first started talking about you, we went and kind of checked out where you guys were at globally. And again, when you guys started doing this, there was no way to know. Right. And y' all are in the top or your current podcast is in the top, like, 0.5% of podcasts globally.
- [52:26]
B
Oh, wow. Yeah.
- [52:26]
C
Like, you're. You're doing really well on the run. I got a bunch. I don't want to get too much into shop talk when it comes to the podcast stuff, but there are a lot of our listeners that flirt with the idea of doing it right, whether or not they. They should or shouldn't. I always tell everybody, like, go full send. Do it right, because you're not going to regret doing it. Even though I think they said the latest statistic is, like, 97% of podcasts that get started don't make it past the third episode.
- [52:49]
B
Right.
- [52:50]
C
That's like, something insane like that. So you've been through a lot of different iterations of, like, the metrics and stuff, and I know a lot of people get hung up on that. If you were talking to somebody about, you know, what they wanted to do with their show or starting a podcast, I. How would you tell them to kind of keep their eyes off of the metrics so that they're. They're focused on, like, what they really want to do?
- [53:12]
B
So what metrics they should be paying attention to.
- [53:14]
C
Yeah.
- [53:14]
B
Or.
- [53:15]
C
Or if they should be paying attention to any metrics for the first, like, however long.
- [53:19]
B
Yeah. I would commit to an episode number before I paid attention to metrics. Like, it would be. And for me, it's. It's way more long game. So I'd be like 100 episodes and then, like. But that. That's quite a bit depends on how many you're publishing.
- [53:31]
A
But I do think most humans wouldn't be able to wait that long, right?
- [53:34]
B
Yeah, just. Just commit to the process for as long as you feel like you can. Like, find whatever system and habit you need to, like, work it into your day, especially if you have other things going on.
- [53:42]
A
Smart.
- [53:43]
B
And then, then commit to that. But then the other metrics you got to start looking for and optimize for is like, because they, you. They just get so much data now. It's like, okay, like, retention rate is a big one. It's like someone might start your podcast maybe because, like, they were searching for the term, but they only listened to 30 seconds. So it's all these, like, small improvements, but, like, those are, like, getting way more into the weeds. I think it's just find a topic that can be really helpful and useful to people. I think the, the biggest problem is people, you know, they look at Joe Rogan and they're like, okay, but Joe Rogan is a world class entertainer. Yeah. And a lot of people aren't that, you know, and, yeah, can't. You can't get on and, like, have this super entertaining podcast. So you're either entertaining or you're educational. And unless you already get paid to entertain, I wouldn't go that route at all. It would be educational. Like, how are you going to educate people in some way, shape or form that can be through conversation, that could be through interviewing certain people. That could be. If you are an expert on something and you want to give that knowledge, I think that's the best advice that I could give is don't try and do what Joe Rogan does and just like, you know, talk about aliens and like, whatever else and, like, expect people to follow. Because again, he's a world class entertainer. He knows what he's doing. Like you. You might think that he's just going off the cuff, but in the back of his head, he's, like, directing the conversation. He knows what he's doing, like, how to get the right answers. So it's a skill set. So I would say go the educational route, commit to a certain amount of episodes, and then start to pay attention to things and see what you can optimize for after all that.
- [55:08]
A
Nice.
- [55:09]
C
That's good info.
- [55:11]
A
Back up a little bit. When you were working with your mom's friend, what was a favorite book? What is it? Or yeah, what would be a favorite book that you read back then that you're like, hey, you know what? I got a lot from this, and it changed the way I thought about things. Or it gave you valuable tools that you actually were able to implement.
- [55:29]
B
Yeah, I reread it every January. It's called the One thing by Gary Keller. Really just optimizes for finding out what the most important thing that you need to be working on is and then optimizing around that and everything else has to go. And so it's a phenomenal, phenomenal book. I mean, I've read it, reread it, I've hired their coaches that they. I don't even know if they're so doing that. That was like, back in the day when they first launched the book. And I read at the beginning of every year, even though I almost have it memorized, just because it keeps me focused. I'm like, because sometimes it's easy to. Shiny objects, new things come in, you know, schedules get like, you know, all over the place. But it's like, okay, what are we optimizing for? What are we actually trying to grow? And, like, what's the 20% that's gonna get me 80% of the results? And staying focused on that.
- [56:22]
A
Besides that book, what's one of your favorite books that you've read recently or you're currently reading right now that you're like, man, this is. I love this book. I'm gonna buy five of them and give them out.
- [56:34]
B
So recently, man, I have, I think buy back your time by Dan Martell I stumbled across recently. And that one I probably recommended quite a bit because I've been in a stage of the last couple years where and I've always had this mentality of, like, I'll just do it. I'll just do it. Just like, let me just do it, you know, like. And that's not the best way to go about it. And sometimes it could be to save money or, like, you don't want to hire the person or, like, whatever, you know, it's. It's. It's not even like, working with my team. It's like not allowing myself to focus more by hiring out other things. So, like, over the last year, I've hired an executive assistant to just like, I don't want to deal with email anymore. All these other little smaller things that I hired, like a property manager for my. Our rental properties. Like, all these things that I was just doing. Yeah. And I was hardcore against, like, no, I'm just going to do these things because in my companies, like, I have employees for everything. And like, that. That's great. But I never would do anything to kind of optimize me a little bit more, you know, Like, I don't Know why? I just would never do that. I just felt like, you know what, I can handle it, you know, and I'll do it. But that was slowing me down. So that book I've recommended to a lot of people primarily just for that. And then another one, 10x is greater than 2x by. I'm gonna forget the author's name, Dan Sullivan. That one was, is pretty, pretty awesome book. And that's just again, it's like thinking bigger, operating in your area of genius and not trying to step outside that. A lot of great lessons learned in that book as well.
- [58:09]
A
That's awesome. So when you decide to work with a business, what do you look for from those leaders and. Or the company in general?
- [58:19]
B
You know, so a lot of businesses we work with, they're typically smaller in nature. And so we're looking at a couple of different things. Like first, where are the constraints? Like, that's the biggest thing that we're looking for. A lot of times people don't realize that that's all businesses is like this cycle of like constraint alleviation is like we find the constraint, we alleviate the constraint, and then we get to a new level, find the new constraint, alleviate the constraint. And sometimes that constraint could be improper hire, improper leadership, it can be improper lead generation, improper sales, marketing, like, whatever. So that's kind of the process we go through. But like we have truly systematize that. Like we have checklists. Like, if it's not like I was like, I think you're good at leadership. It's like, here's the leadership checklist. We just go down it and let people grade themselves. Here's your marketing checklist. And people score themselves. And so we have all these different areas. I think it comes out to being around 100 different assessment questions. And then you get a grade in all the different areas for your business. And then it's like, okay, you got in sales you're a 94%. In marketing you're a 14%. I was like, for the next quarter we're going to try to get your 14% to a 36% and then the next quarter. So like it's very systematic. Like just. That's more of the military background in me. Like, I don't like the consulting approach because I've also hired a lot of consultants and coaches like this where they're just like, we hop on the phone and they're like, what do you want to talk about? And I'm like, and you could hop on and talk about your biggest problem, but that yeah, wears thin really fast. Because it's like, shouldn't you know something I don't? Like, shouldn't you be leading me through some sort of process? So I had hired a lot of coaches before I ever became a business coach. Just optimizing, growing my, my businesses with strength and conditioning. And so that's what I wanted from coaches. But I could never find, I could never find someone like that squared away, who had checklists and like, oh, you need something, boom. I have a playbook for that. Here's the playbook, you know, and so that's what I've been trying to create over the last several years is like, a very systematic process to help people, like, go through, find what their constraints are, alleviate them, improve it through an actual, like, objective score. Like, your marketing score sucks. You need to improve it, you know, so that, that's what we've been working on for the last couple years.
- [60:29]
C
That's rad, man. I'm interested to see, like, how much of your dissatisfaction with your. The coaching that you received has shaped the way that you coach.
- [60:42]
B
Yeah, I, And I think a big part of that is a lot of the coaches I hired and went, like, they were incredibly expensive. They were not, like, they were not these nominal fees. Like, they were major investments that were going to stress me, my family, and the business. But I was confident that was the area for growth that was required. And a lot of times they would just charge their fees based off of their reputation, but not off of their, like, necessarily their know how, like, what.
- [61:08]
A
They'Re actually delivering also, and I feel.
- [61:11]
B
Like I'm almost the opposite. Like, while I've been in the content game for a long time, I've never truly gone, like, viral or like, a lot of people still never heard of me. And that's because I was trying to just build in the background for such a long time. And I wanted to build a brand that was independent of me. But then I realized over time the value in, like, personal brand and how that can. Can help. But anyway, I, I didn't want to be that. I was like, I don't want you to hire me because of, like, who I am. I want you to hire me because of what I could do for your business. And so that was the approach I took. But it was also a misstep, in my opinion, because I didn't start getting into trying to grow my personal brand until around July of this year, in all honesty. I mean, I've been posting content and podcasting. That stuff has never really stopped. But I didn't really try anything significant on the content side of like trying to put my message out there for a long time. And that was because of this mindset thing of like, I wanted to be about the process and not about who I am, you know, and so. But now I can see those two things can happen at the same time.
- [62:08]
C
You know, this is a major hurdle, right, because we, I think we produce like 16 podcasts here. And you know, with being a pastor of a church too, this is something that I'm told a lot is they're like, oh, you need to be more forward focused and you need to be out there more. And I'm like, the church is not about me, right? And a lot of us, I say a lot of us, a lot of people that we work with, even when they're building their brands and their shows, they don't want it to be centralized about them. They want it to be about their product. And they don't understand hook, they don't understand a story, they don't understand, you know, the, the offer that like those three things are the big thing that keep people coming back to your channel. So this has been a little bit of your journey. Like, how would you coach somebody who is in that same spot? Let me rephrase. Talk me into putting my face more on the brand of the things that we're doing versus me doing what I'm doing right now and staying in the shadows.
- [63:02]
B
Yeah, I think the, the best way I could explain personal brand would be like, you know, through an analogy. It's like a personal brand is just a spark, you know, and so when you have a personal brand, some people are holding a match, some people are holding a candle, but then some people have like these fireballs that are basically shot from outer, out of space Jocko, you know, like those kind of like those level, those level of brands. And so what you can set on fire is to directly proportionate to how big your fire is, right? Like you, if you, and I'm talking about the speed of it, right, like you, you could start a big fire with a tiny candle. But like, it's going to take a long time to grow and like, but if you want to set an entire forest on fire, which let's call that your market, you need a big giant fireball. And so I don't think that you have to try and shoot for the stars and be this massive viral, like millions of followers type person, but I think everybody should have some sort of message and brand out there because it's Gonna help you. Like, what if you pivot and you change your mind? Like, I kind of have, like, on, like, didn't change my mind, but I've kind of transitioned from strength and conditioning coach to more business stuff. It's like, if I had established more of a personal brand ahead of time, I wouldn't have had to do so much behind the scenes and so much advertising to be able to make that work. I could have just been, like, pointed my personal brand over here or point my personal brand over here so you're able to get into new markets with the. Your existing fire. So you could take your fire and set new, you know, forests on fire, and you could just pivot a lot easier when you have that personal brand. So, like, that's one kind of like an insurance policy for if you want to do new things or if you have multiple projects that you're working on. You know, that's. That's a big thing. But at the same time, we live in a world where if someone's even thinking about working with you, they're. They're going to look at everything that you have online. Like, they're going to see, okay, what's on Instagram. Do they have YouTube, podcasts? Like, they have a website. They're doing all of that research before they ever, like, decide to work with you. And if you haven't posted on Instagram in, like, four years and, like, your website hasn't been updated in forever, you had a podcast, but it hasn't published an episode in two and a half years, People might be like, I don't know, you know? So that's where the problem comes in.
- [65:14]
A
This happened to me yesterday, and this was weird, weird to me because I haven't experienced it at this level yet. Probably going to sell my truck. So I have a truck that I'm going to get rid of. It's a beautiful truck. I love it. You know, it's a 2021 F250. I just don't need it anymore, you know, and, you know, I was just kind of going, okay, do I get rid of my expedition? Do I get rid of my truck? And I'm like, you know, let me see. So I put the truck info, info out there and I get, you know, a few dealerships that are, like, calling me. And, you know, I saw the Kelley Blue Book offer and I was talking to this one guy. I'm like, my truck is nicer than what I could actually articulate on Kelley Blue Book. Like, I wasn't able to put all that information in there. I was like, so if that's your offer, like, I don't want to waste your time. I'm not taking that offer. I know I could private sell this and get a lot more. And he goes, okay. So I send pictures over of the truck, and I get a call back, and I can't answer because I'm on zooms yesterday. So I text the guy. I'm like, hey, here's my window. I can talk. And the guy calls back, and my information, when I fill it out is Jeremiah Dennell, because that's my name. Okay. And I answer. He's like, hey, this is Jeremiah. I'm like, yeah, hey, how are you? He's like, or should I say jp? And I'm like, whichever you want. And then it clicked. I'm like, why would he know me as JP, right? I didn't put JP on anything.
- [66:32]
B
Yeah.
- [66:32]
A
Like, instantly, I said, JP's fine. He's like, so I have a question for you. He goes, when I buy this truck from you, he goes, which you were right. That truck is beautiful, because I sent pictures over and everything else like that and all the extra stuff. He goes, are you gonna bring me a case of Sour Apple Sniper, or are those even around anymore?
- [66:52]
B
And I'm like, who is doing all this research? Yeah.
- [66:56]
A
Yeah. So we started talking autograph. Well, the fact that one is 10% price bump. Yeah.
- [67:02]
C
No joke.
- [67:04]
A
But he knew that I had a signature energy drink that's no longer available because we changed Jockey, changed that. We don't do the signature. The names anymore because it was actually restraining us from getting into, like, Sam's Club and Walmart and Costco and all these bigger names that we've been trying to work with. And there are some places that are like, no, we're not. You know, you know, Dax Savage and Sour Apple Sniper and Pink Mist and all that stuff. And it's like, all right, well, if we want to, like, actually create reach and impact through good, healthy, clean energy drinks, like, we'll just do neutral names. It's not a big deal. But this guy knew that. Yeah, he did his research.
- [67:39]
B
He did his research, and that's what everyone's doing. That's what everyone does, no matter, like, what level they want to work with you at.
- [67:44]
A
But, you know, it was. Yes, I agree 100% with you. Said this guy was instantly building a relationship with me. Like, I want to sell this guy a vehicle now I don't know which one I'm going to get rid of. Yeah, maybe all Maybe all of them, and we start over, you know?
- [67:57]
B
Yeah.
- [67:58]
A
But I will do business with this guy one way or another, because he showed me respect. He was super polite. He listened to everything I said, and he was like, hey, man, I don't want to waste your time. He goes, from what I've seen, you were very busy. I can see you take care of your things. I can see you take care of your vehicles. You have a lot of pride in these things that you've worked hard for. He goes, if you send me pictures and if you tell me that these are the way these are, I'll give you a different offer. He goes, otherwise, he goes, and then when you come in, if it's different, then we'll work through it. He goes, or you can come here and we can work through it in person. He goes, I just don't want to waste your time. And I'm like, okay, that's awesome.
- [68:36]
C
I also don't want you to waste my time.
- [68:37]
B
Right? Yeah. But we're in agreement.
- [68:39]
A
Yeah. I was like, I agree with you, but it was really cool. And. And the only reason I'm sharing that story is one. It, like, kind of threw me off a little bit yesterday.
- [68:45]
B
Yeah.
- [68:46]
A
And I was very impressed by how professional this guy was and thorough.
- [68:50]
B
And.
- [68:51]
A
And I was like, oh, this guy probably does very well at his job if he's doing that.
- [68:55]
B
Yeah.
- [68:55]
A
You know, he does this with everybody. This is his system. Right. He does his research, does a little digging, Builds rapport, builds a relationship. I'm telling you now, I want to sell one, if not all of our vehicles to this guy. And it was just. It was really cool. And it just reiterates what you said. Like, hey, people are going to do the research.
- [69:15]
B
Yeah. And I think. And some. Some people don't. You know, like, when. Like, I've been on podcasts before, they're like, all right, so what do you do, Jerry? And I'm like, what do you. You know, they do no research ahead of time, Nothing. Like, you know, they don't have anything prepared. And it's just funny. It's like going back to, like, what advice would you give? Like, somebody trying to start podcasts is like, you have to go to that level. You have to, like, listen to the podcast episodes before you attend as a guest or if you're going to have a guest, do the research before you have them on. Like, all of these things go a long way because it's so easy to do. Do these days, you know?
- [69:49]
A
So what do you do, Jerry? What I do is I gotta go.
- [69:55]
B
I'm leaving.
- [69:56]
A
Yeah, that's what I do. I'm leaving.
- [69:57]
C
I would just make up a whole just nonsense backstory.
- [70:01]
B
I just try to make the interview so bad at that point that they just don't want to publish. Yeah. Like I'll just be real, like answer questions with like one word and just like stare at him.
- [70:08]
C
After my father in law, Rick travels through space and my kid sometimes goes with him.
- [70:13]
B
So. Yeah, Yeah.
- [70:15]
C
I got a follow up about, you know, you're, you're talking about these. You haven't really had a viral moment in this would have been 2021. With the first podcast that I started with a buddy of mine, we had this huge flash in the pan viral moment. 250,000 watches within 24 hours. Had on a comedian named Liam Morgan who's like incredibly famous and she was just gracious enough to come on our show for the next three months. My podcasting partner, co host was like trying to recover from that of like, we'll never have another thing.
- [70:53]
B
Right, Right.
- [70:55]
C
Because when the next week our numbers went back down to not even 1% of, you know, less than like maybe half a percent of what we had hit, you know, in that 24 hour period, the reality set in that it was kind of this flash in the pan moment. Right. So when you're coaching people through these kind of things, like maybe they do have this, you know, insane viral moment or Maybe they get 15,000 views on something and then the next day their stuff is back in double digits. Right. How do you coach them through the letdown of that so that they stay consistent? Because like, what you're saying and what I'm hearing you say is that consistency is king with all this stuff.
- [71:30]
B
100%. Right? Yeah.
- [71:31]
C
So how do you coach them through that? That let down in statistics and metrics when it goes from like, hey, you know what? This is the best video we've ever published to the next three days are the worst videos that you've ever published. Your energy's down and now, you know, you're questioning whether or not what you're doing is going to be successful.
- [71:48]
B
Yeah, I mean, I'd go back to the lesson. Like, what, what lesson do we learn from that viral moment? Because that'll even happen in my podcast today. Like I might have something that like, you know, kicks off. I don't really know why. You know, it's like it was something because I don't do a lot of guest interviews anymore. It might just be a specific Topic I hit on that. Like, I don't know, the podcasting algorithm decided to feed up the people where people were searching or whatever. So, like, the lesson is like, you, what you. All you did was you funneled some popularity into your podcast, right? You, like, you know, you, you took what was a popular name and then you were able to, like, they're getting this stream, and you were able to divert some of that stream into your. Your feed. So the, the question wouldn't be, you know, like, oh, I'm like, down about that. How do I ever do that again? It's like, no, how do you do it again? Like that. That's. That's the lesson is like, how do you do it again? Is it another big guest or is it a specific topic that resonates with people? Like, how do we reverse engineer doing that again? Is the question. Because you've done it now. Like, you've done it, so it's not like it's impossible. You've done what a lot of people will never do. And so it could be the fact that you just, hey, let's swing for the fences and try to get another guest, because now you can leverage the popular guest that you had on to get other big names, Right? That's how kind of the podcasting, you know, frog Hop, Frog Leap works. But then at the same time, you might just be able to hit on a specific topic that's going to go, like, add some virality. So it's, it's just the what. What lesson can you learn from having achieved something that you did already and then apply it to the next time that you publish an episode? As opposed to, like, we'll never do it again. It's like, you might not. You're not going to do it every single time.
- [73:22]
C
Right.
- [73:23]
B
Initially, but how can you get that 10, 20% improvement over the next quarter with your podcast downloads? As opposed to, how do I have another big flash in the pan?
- [73:33]
C
Right on, man.
- [73:33]
A
That's sweet. Yeah. Do you still do coaching with athletes?
- [73:38]
B
I don't, so not at all.
- [73:40]
A
Besides your kids?
- [73:41]
B
Besides my kids, yep. I get a lot of requests, but I don't. I basically turn all of them down at this point. We. I do provide programming. We have Garage Athlete is one of my companies. We have a lot of people who funnel there, so you can follow, like, workouts, but I don't individually coach anybody other than my kids now.
- [74:00]
A
That's cool. Yeah, that's awesome.
- [74:01]
B
It's just a time. Time commitment thing. It's very hard, but I really enjoy one on one coaching. Like, I really, really do, because the level of depth, you can go in with somebody. And I actually train not neighbors in our neighborhood, but like across, like behind our house. Their. Their houses, you know, like across the woods.
- [74:21]
A
Yeah.
- [74:21]
B
And I had like one of their boys come over. I trained him this summer as well with my boys. And I could see that splintering out. And they're like, I want to pay you. I'm like, you can't pay me. It is like, because once you start paying me, it's a service, you know, and then there's an expectation.
- [74:34]
A
Yeah.
- [74:35]
B
Because if I need to cancel, you know, on Monday for a Wednesday workout or whatever, I want to be able to have that flexibility and not someone be like, what am I paying you for? Like, I just don't want that relationship. So everything I do with any body. I also coach my son's soccer team in strength and conditioning. So he's on a select soccer team. And so they found out about my background and they're like, will you do strength conditioning like once a week for the soccer team? And I was like, absolutely. And they. They've really loved it. That's been so fun for me is like, I have this big mantra. There are those who do and there are those who don't. Right. And like, I just try not to focus on the ones who don't. And it's not like a. Try not to be a cutthroat, like, jerk when I say that. But, like, I really want to help those who do. And those who do. I can already see them on the soccer field. Like on my son's soccer team. My son is one of those who wants to. And then there are the other kids who want to. Then the other kids are like, I'm just doing this because the coach said it's strength and conditioning day or whatever. But the kids who, like, light up when I tell them we're doing burpees and like all this other stuff, I really want to dive with. Dive in with them more and like, really help them understand, like, how all this works and like, how they can. You know, effort is a big thing. We talk about all these kind of things. So that's been a lot of fun for me.
- [75:45]
A
I love that. Those that do and those that don't. It's. I like that mindset. It's very similar to one things I talk about. Desire and capabilities are two different things.
- [75:53]
B
Yeah.
- [75:54]
A
And you're capable when you have the desire and you actually have to put in the work.
- [75:58]
B
Yeah.
- [75:58]
A
And so you're. Tells you a lot about a person when you see the work they're willing to put in. And I'm sure as a business coach, you see this all the time. You're like, okay, so how many sales calls are you doing for your business? Like, hey, how many local meetups are you going to? Are you going to these different meetings? Like, there's a lot that comes into running a business. And when you are going through that checklist, it tells you everything you need to know about that person.
- [76:23]
B
Yeah, 100%. And most time people just have like the mindset things that they need to work through, which are big. But what's funny is I got that piece of advice from my, my grandpa when I started in the strength and conditioning world. He basically told me that, but in his own words. He was just like, they're gonna be some people who want to work out and they're gonna. People who don't. He's like, don't worry about those who don't want to work out. And I was like, I was like, you're so wrong, grandpa. Like, that's like, that's such a like old man jerk thing to say because, like, well, I need to help the people who don't want to. And I tried that for years. You can get people on the, on the, on the path for like a month, three months, whatever. Then it's, you know, and it just doesn't. I'm like, you were right. I spent years trying to prove you were wrong. And you were right the whole time Sisyphus thing, right?
- [77:06]
C
The pushing, constantly pushing a rock up a hill.
- [77:08]
B
That's exactly what it's like.
- [77:11]
A
My friends Jonathan and Ann with first in nutrition. That's, that's their approach. Hey, we're here when you're ready. Because I, I've known about first in nutrition for years. They've been coming to echelon front events and musters and different events for. And I, I know what they do. I had access to being a part of the programs and everything. And every, you know, whenever I would talk with Jonathan, I'd make like joking comments or whatever. He's like, hey man, whenever you're ready, let me know. And it was always, whenever you're ready, let me know. Because as a coach, he knows, like, you know, and I know it's like, you, you can make somebody do something temporarily, but long term, it's just. You can't do it. Yeah, it's too exhausting. And there comes a point where you, you actually can't get somebody to. To put in the work that's required until they decide they want to do it.
- [78:02]
B
Yeah. And you might still need the accountability. Like, I think. And those are two different things, too. Like, you. You don't want to have to force or convince someone to do something. But providing accountability for those who do want to is a superpower, you know, and that's something I've leveraged over and over just to make myself do things that I say I want to do because I know I'll do them. But sometimes I just need that extra piece of accountability to, like, make sure I follow through.
- [78:23]
A
That's why we do the whole are you in or you're out thing. It's a very simple thing.
- [78:28]
C
It's stupid. I hate it.
- [78:32]
A
But it's for growth, right. And it's for growth amongst your friends. Like, and it's about you knowing your friends and their capabilities and, like, okay, we can push past. Past the threshold.
- [78:41]
B
Yeah.
- [78:42]
A
And so that's why next month, we're all doing a Jiu Jitsu tournament, whether it's the Dallas Open on January 25th or the Jiu Jitsu World League on February 1st that Lucas is doing.
- [78:51]
C
Yep.
- [78:52]
A
I'm thinking, so you're in. That's probably. Oh, yeah. Well, that's.
- [78:55]
B
You have to basically. Well, there's no.
- [78:57]
A
Well, the thing with, are you in or out? You don't know what you're in for.
- [79:00]
B
Oh, gosh.
- [79:00]
A
And so if I was like, hey, Jared, we're not doing this right now. But if I was like, are you in or you're out?
- [79:05]
B
Yeah. I would always say in.
- [79:06]
A
It was, see, you're like, Josh. You know, Josh is always in. But you would. But you also know I'm not going to do something that you're not capable of or not able to put in the work. There. There is that aspect.
- [79:17]
B
Yeah.
- [79:18]
A
If I came up with something crazy that, as we talked about it, logically, you're like, hey, there's no way I can do this. I'm allowed one of those. If I do it again, I'm not allowed to challenge you anymore.
- [79:30]
B
Okay.
- [79:31]
A
The other rule is, if you say you're in and I tell you what we're doing, you're like, I'm out. That means you're out for good. You never get to participate ever again.
- [79:40]
C
But if you say you're out, then you just are out.
- [79:43]
A
Then you're out for that one Evolution. So if you're like. If, you know, you're like, man, I got a lot going on in my life. I don't know what this is going to be like. But you know what? I can't commit to another thing right now. And you're just like, hey, man, I'm out on this one. Cool. No factor. The next one that comes about, you can be in if you want. You can be in or out as much as you want. And so I did it for a jujitsu tournament because I know we've all been talking about it. Lucas sparked the thought by, hey, how cool would it be if all the guys on Jesus in Jiu Jitsu did a jiu Jitsu tournament?
- [80:15]
C
I was not thinking about myself participating.
- [80:19]
A
No, that's, that's not accurate.
- [80:21]
C
It is accurate because you said, you.
- [80:24]
A
Said I would be. You're like, because we have me as a white belt, Stephen as a blue belt, Josh and I as purple belts, and Isaac as a brown belt. We have all the ranks except for black. But then the black belts are guys that help us with Jesus and Jiu Jitsu regularly. Brent, Ryan, Kramer, Trey, Anthony, Farmiga, those guys are all black belts that are going to be competing as well. So that's how we're doing it. Now. The biggest stretch is going to be for Steven, who, you know, he moved about 90 minutes away. So him and his family live 90 minutes away. He's got this new full time job. There's a lot of dynamics going on with Steven, so. But the thing is, I thought about all this stuff before asking him. And for him, I know his Jiu Jitsu IQ is very high, his jujitsu IQ is very high. All he needs to be doing is some sort of physical activity. Yeah, three times a week to get his cardio back where it needs to be and get the strength, you know, but mostly just cardio. And then there's a gym in Wichita Falls that he has access to, which is like 35, 40 minutes from his house that he can go train. So he can get there once a week if he makes it a priority. Also with his other job as he's driving around, have his jujitsu gear with him. And once a week he can get to any of the other affiliate gyms that he has access to because of Formiga now, it's going to be hard for him, but it's a doable thing. And the reason why I also included him into it is because he was talking to me about needing to get back into shape and how he had been off the path and he needed something to get him there. Well, cool. This is what we're doing.
- [82:01]
B
This is perfect. Yeah.
- [82:02]
A
Yeah.
- [82:02]
B
I love that. Yeah. I caught it in one of. I listened to some episodes beforehand, and so now I fully, fully grasp it's the rules of the. My.
- [82:09]
C
My training has mostly been just riding recumbent bikes, smoking cigars, and drinking coffee. So I'm gonna do that three or four times a week and see what happens in February.
- [82:17]
B
Hey, I've done a lot of untrained events in my life, and they turn out okay. All right.
- [82:23]
A
Especially Jiu jitsu, when you have somebody else trying to choke you or break something on you.
- [82:27]
C
Look, the quicker they can put it on me, they'll. Shorter amount of time I got to.
- [82:31]
B
Stay on that night.
- [82:32]
A
So I'm here for it. I know you've been training for me. Goes asking about you last night. Well, I was there last night. That was very sweet. That was a hum. Last night was humbling.
- [82:40]
B
Yeah.
- [82:41]
A
For me getting back. Yeah, it was good. Okay, let's go into. I know. I. I know I want to do another episode with you because there's a lot, a lot I want to unpeel.
- [82:54]
C
Like an onion.
- [82:55]
B
Yeah. Multifaceted.
- [82:57]
A
What does your day look like? What's an average day look like for you? Like, what's your schedule? Because I know people are going to ask, like, okay, hey, what's his schedule? Like, are you an early guy? Are you. Hey, you like to get. Are you up late at night so you're not waking up super early, or does it kind of flex?
- [83:12]
B
No, it's. It's pretty set right now. So I. I'm an early guy. I wake up around 5, 5:15am Nice. And then I, you know, I'll get into that later. So I'll just tell you about my day first. And then so what I do, I wake up. I immediately make coffee with a bialetti espresso machine or thing. Like, if you guys know what a Bialetti. Yeah.
- [83:37]
C
Come on.
- [83:38]
B
Yeah. So it's like I get it all prepped the night before, so all I have to do is turn the stove on in the morning, and it makes really good espresso.
- [83:45]
C
So I make moka pot, baby.
- [83:47]
B
Yeah, that's what I got. And so. And it's quiet, so I'm not waking up any kids or anything. So I make that cup of coffee, and then I sit down and I challenge myself to come up with an idea for about an hour. So I write. So I write every single morning. I used to write a word goal. I'd be like, okay, you got to put in 500 to a thousand words. But I can over explain I could write for days without stopping if you put like that kind of task in front of me. So I'm challenging myself to do the opposite. I want it to be a good idea expressed in 200 words or less. And I'll still spend an hour on that. And so that's what I've been writing. And I just, I was writing them privately forever. I just recently started publishing them publicly because it just put, holds my feet to the fire a little bit more to one, do it and then two, like make sure it's polished enough to publish.
- [84:36]
A
I love it because you're like 53 second read.
- [84:40]
B
Yeah, I always put like how many words it is and how long I think it'll take you to read. And, and so I, that, that's basically my morning and now where, where things can flex and change based off of meetings or whatever is I used to wake up and work out. But I like the intellectual stimulation first thing in the morning. So now after that I walk my dog. You've seen my, my, my dog. Funny thing is I got that dog for accountability. Like I wanted to, I set a goal for next year to increase my step goal. Cause like I already work out every day that's going to happen. But I want to get more movement throughout the day. And I got a GSP German shorthaired pointer. Bro, you can't not walk or run those things.
- [85:19]
C
No you can't.
- [85:19]
B
And so we had a kennel that.
- [85:22]
C
We, we bred GSPs for hunting for years.
- [85:25]
B
Yeah. And so I did all the research and people were like, they're kind of crazy. Very athletic. Like you're going to have to like. I was like that's what I want. I want a dog that. And it's like layered accountability because if I don't walk her in the morning for significant walk, she's going to terrorize my family because she'll have too much energy. So I'm on like a, I'm on like a 50 day unbroken streak. Doesn't matter what the temperature is, if it's raining or whatever. I walk her every morning like right at 6:30am After I've done like the morning writing and stuff. So anyway, that's like multi layered accountability and you'll see that throughout like everything I do in my life. So anyway, after I walk the dog then it's hang out with the kids, cook them breakfast, like that kind of stuff. And then I basically get to work from there and then I'll Fit a training schedule. Training session in either first thing in the morning, right after I walk her, or if I have meetings, it'll be later in the day. But from there, the day, it's either work, like I'm creating content or meeting with people, team meetings, just all the business types of things. And then after that, like, kind of round out my day. And then it's kids, sports every night of the week from. From there out.
- [86:28]
A
That's awesome. What's the favorite thing about your wife?
- [86:37]
B
That she has really high standards.
- [86:39]
C
And I cannot say the same for my wife how she ended up with me.
- [86:44]
B
Yeah, I don't know if I was her highest standard, but she.
- [86:48]
C
She's developed them.
- [86:49]
B
Yeah.
- [86:49]
C
She's like, I can't do this in another area of my life.
- [86:51]
A
I've got to increase my standards.
- [86:54]
B
But, like, it was. I actually published this as a blog post recently, too, because someone asked me. They were like, they noticed my kids, like, you have really awesome kids. And they're like, you're super lucky.
- [87:06]
A
Yes.
- [87:06]
B
And that. And then I was like, no, you're not lucky. I was like, well, I was like, three kids seems like a lot of luck. I was like, one kid good, maybe luck. Three, all of them good, maybe not luck. And so I asked her. I was like. I was like, hey, babe, what do, like, why do we have awesome kids? I was like, you're at least 80, 90% responsible for them being awesome. So, like, what do you think it is? And she's like, because we do the hard things without hesitation. She said that. And so those are the kind of standards I'm talking about. It's not like, these, like, crazy, like, everything has to be to a certain level. It's just, she knows, and everyone knows, like, what you need to do to, like, be a good human and to, like, take care of yourself and stuff. And so she's just like me in the fact that we're going to hold those standards, you know, across our family life. And I think that's what I love most about her is I. I don't have to convince someone else of, like, how we're gonna raise our kids or how we're going to hold our family to a standard. I don't have to convince her because that wouldn't be very, like, that would be tough, you know, if it was like, we were constantly butting heads on that. But we're 100% on the same page and that. And that's like, a major aspect other than, like, faith, you know, Those are the two big things that we 100% in agreement in. So it's made family life so much easier. You know, in all honesty, that's awesome.
- [88:22]
A
I know we're getting ready to wrap it up, but just one more question on this. And then, like I said, there's so many other things I want us to get into on our next episode. Can you go into some of those, like the, like the hard things that you said, like, hey, for our kids, like, you know, scheduled diet, exercise, and you said screen time. And I was curious about why that's important to you guys.
- [88:43]
B
Yeah. And I don't want to step on anybody else's toes. And a lot of parents listening, step on all of them, smash them. Because I just have the standards for my family. Like whatever your standards are for your family could be different.
- [88:53]
A
Right. And before you go into that, I just want all of our listeners to think about it. If your toes are being stepped on, you need to do an honest self assessment as to why your, why your feelings are being hurt. From the interaction that my wife and I have had with Jared and his wife and his kids. They are awesome. Great family. We couldn't ask for better neighbors. Like, we are so thankful. We actually prayed over your guys's property and house before you guys moved in. Hope in hopes that it would be blessed. Well, actually not in hopes knowing that it would be blessed, but in hopes that you guys would be an awesome family. Because you can't pick your neighbors.
- [89:28]
B
Right?
- [89:28]
A
Like, you can't pick your neighbors.
- [89:30]
B
And we were like, house is being built. You're like, I hope they're okay.
- [89:33]
A
Yeah, I mean, we. Yeah, yeah. And even like some of the guys from my church that came over and we would do workouts and they prayed over our property and our house when we first moved in, when we would do stuff, they would pray over your guys property as we were going for walks in the neighborhood. And then you know, like, hey, you know, I hope that God blesses that family. I hope they're a godly family. You know what I mean? Like things like just like praying that out there your family is awesome, your kids are great. So if somebody's listening to what he's about to say and your feelings are hurt, you need to do an honest self assessment. This isn't an attack. This is a. Maybe you should think about these things because clearly what you guys are doing is working. There's only two measures that matter. Effective and ineffective. And you guys are effective at this.
- [90:17]
B
So I appreciate that. And I would say, you know, as A parent, you always come to a crossroads, and I think people know what decisions they need to make, but sometimes you're tired or overwhelmed or whatever. But we just always chose the hard. So, like, like I said, I mentioned, sleep is like, we just know if a child is really well rested, they're really well behaved. Right? Like, from the. At least their baseline is better, you know, and so we've prioritized their sleep over and over. It doesn't matter what's happening if we're traveling. Like, we've just been very, like, militant about making sure they get enough sleep. And, like, we follow that schedule. And that's the same with the foods that they eat. Like, some people are like, oh, whatever, it's sugar. You'll burn it off. From my background and, like, what I know. I don't agree with that kind of statement at all. I'm like, these things are detrimental, you know, to their health. And. And so we really control what they eat. And it's become to a point where at first I was like, is this going to be too restrictive to where they're going to, like, really rebel or hate me or whatever, but now they just kind of. We've explained the why so much behind the nutrition that they are making the right choices on their own, which is. Which is awesome. And so, you know, that can be hard as a parent, too, like, nutritional choices and, like, defaulting to easy. And then, like, another thing that we notice is, like, we don't hand our kids, like, an iPad or a phone at really, at any point in time, but at the same time, like, at a restaurant, I've seen that a lot. And again, not trying to throw shade on anybody. We just knew we wanted kids who could sit at a restaurant and have a conversation. So we just dealt with the hard of the younger years, of them not being distracted by a screen and just sitting at the table with us and, like, having conversations, no matter the age. And it's like, we're not going to pacify you or distract you or hand you the screen. So we've made all those hard choices over and over. And I'll be honest, it's taken a toll because doing the hard things always takes a toll. It's just stressful. It's more stressful than the easy button. Right? We just try to never. And we're not perfect, but, like, we try to never hit the easy button when it comes to parenting, and we both know it. Like, we'll, like, look at each other when a decision's coming up and we're like, we know that's the harder of the two. We know there's an easy button we could hit here, and we're just not gonna do it. And we're always on the same page for that.
- [92:29]
C
Yeah, we're, we're dealing with that with our two year old right now. So we want family dinner to be a thing. Right. So we're, we're waiting until like everybody's food is made before we set the plates and then, you know, pray for the food and then mom and dad will talk and we include him a lot in the conversation. But like, we're not getting up until conversations are over. Right. That, you know, if you want to color at the table or something like that, like, that's, that's okay, right? If, if we've just got a lot of catching up to do. But he's at the point now where he's like, mommy and daddy are done talking about. Are mommy and Daddy done talking? Like, yeah, no. Like, you know how we will include him in the conversation? How was your day? And he gives the same answer. He's like, it was awesome. It's like, all right, great.
- [93:07]
B
Yeah.
- [93:07]
C
Anything else you want to add to that? Our mommy and daddy doesn't talk.
- [93:10]
B
It's like, no, no, we're not.
- [93:12]
C
It is, it's, it's so taxing to do that. But you know what we're really praying for is that in 10 years when our kids are your kids age, you know that our, our 12 year old is going to want to participate in those conversations because it's going to be the norm that this is what we do as a family is, is invest in each other.
- [93:29]
B
Yeah. And my, my wife and I were talking about this, like, we are so in love with our kids right now too, because of that hard work we put in early on. It's not like parenting is done. Like it's never done. Right. Like, well, all, like we have the teenage years coming up, like a lot of stuff. But at the same time, I just love being with my kids right now. Like, I would love to go hang out with them at any point in time because they're fun to be around and they enjoy things that I enjoy, you know, just because they're upbringing. But it's like they are so fun to be with. It's not like a never a chore, you know, like at the ages they're at right now, it's just they're so fun to hang out with. That's a big part of what I want to do and we get to enjoy them. And it's because of the. A lot of the harder things that we had to do when they were younger.
- [94:07]
A
Man, that's awesome. Thank you for sharing that. That's huge. And for me, it was just a good reminder of things that we need to keep doing and go back to doing. Because, you know, I find myself on my phone a lot because I do a lot of business and work off my phone. If I'm on my phone, guess who else is on their phones, right? Every single person in our family.
- [94:26]
B
Yeah.
- [94:27]
A
Okay, I'm gonna close it out with some. Just some shout outs, but then we'd love for you to close it out with a final thought.
- [94:34]
B
Okay.
- [94:35]
A
Okay. So. All right, y'. All. So before we close it out, some final thoughts from Jared and myself. I want to thank all of you guys for the support you guys have given us by listening, sharing, subscribing and commenting. Make sure you guys are subscribed to us on YouTube so you can be notified when our YouTube exclusive episodes come out. Keep spreading the word. We appreciate that. If you want to follow us on social media, I am at jpdonelle. That's two N's, two L's. Lucas is at lucasbinkard. L U C A S P I N C K A R D Jared is at Jared Moon. That's J E r r e d.m o o M that's on Instagram. From there you can click on his link tree to see all of his books businesses. Also go to jared.com that's j e r r e d dot com. Make sure you're also following Echelon Front on social media. We are at Echelon Front. And when and when you want to learn about more. More about what we do at Echelon front, go to echelonfront.com youm can click on the events tab. You can also shop the store to grab some stuff from there. Look forward to seeing you guys at one of our future events that's going on. I know we have the muster coming up in San Diego in February. That's gonna be mustard 21, I believe, almost already halfway sold out. And we also have a one day FTX right after the muster that is only available for Muster attendees. So if you're going to that San Diego muster and you want to spend an extra day there to sign up and do a day of our hands on scenario based leadership training to actually fuel the implementation of these principles. Real time after the muster, that's about halfway sold out. As well. It's gonna be a small group, so check it out. Look forward to seeing you guys and working with you guys. You know, we talked about Jesus and Jiu Jitsu earlier, so check out Jesus and Jiu Jitsu Underscore USA on Instagram. It's a ministry I'm a part of. We also have a podcast that comes that has episodes that come out every Tuesday. We're doing different events about every four to six weeks at different gyms. We start off with a free Jiu Jitsu seminar. Someone shares their testimony. And then we. We opened it up for some open mat for some awesome training. Also, check out Little Cattle Company get that beef. Yeah. Dog, go to Little Cattle Co. It's a Texas beef company I'm a partner of with Stephen Little. We are a custom beef company that allows you to order exactly what you want anytime. We're also able to deliver anywhere in the lower 48 states. I will tell you, the quality of beef is unreal.
- [97:02]
B
I can second that.
- [97:03]
A
Yeah, Yeah, I appreciate that. Also, since we switched to a new processor, it's crazy. Now, I'm not saying the old processor was not giving us all of our beef.
- [97:13]
B
Yeah, the cuts are bigger. Yeah. It's like.
- [97:15]
A
Yeah, I've noticed noticeable difference.
- [97:19]
C
I'm not saying they were really nice people.
- [97:22]
B
Yeah.
- [97:24]
C
Anyway, they were what you needed at the time.
- [97:26]
A
They were going exactly what we needed at that time. However, also now when you see we're. We're delivering the same size steers and we're getting more beef processed.
- [97:36]
C
That's what I'm talking about.
- [97:37]
B
Well, I'll say on Little Calico real quick, because I found out when we. I moved in next to you and you mentioned. And I was like, okay, I'll check it out. So I place an order and, dude, it's amazing. Like, amazing. So, like, we'll have. I try to place. Keep the freezer full and always have some little cattle co in there. But, like, we. We ran out not long ago, and I just placed another order I got to pick up this week. But anyway, my wife picked up steaks from like, Whole Foods or something like that. And dude, it's a big difference. I was like, it's just crazy. It's crazy. Like, I didn't even think that there could be that much because that's what we used to do. We'd go buy the meat from Whole Foods. We thought that was like a higher end, like, that would be good. But now it's like, I cook those steaks and I cooked them well, like, they. They looked. They looked good. And I was like, these are awful compared to little cattle Go. So we.
- [98:22]
C
We took the. The ground beef to. We had a big family function. And so they were like, oh, we're going to make tacos. And, you know, you guys bring half the ground beef and somebody else will bring the other half. And we're like, okay, that's what you want. And so there was a bunch left over. And we were like, what happened? And one of the family members was like, it got.
- [98:39]
B
It's.
- [98:40]
C
It tastes weird. Like, what. They're like, the second part of it doesn't taste as good as the first part. Like, we don't know if it was seasoning. And I was like, yeah, you guys ran out of our beef, right? That's what it was. It was just better.
- [98:51]
A
So on that, we also have a ground beef subscription plan. We have different beef tallow products, which include body butter tallow cream, lip balm. We also have bee sticks that are.
- [98:59]
C
And a new scrub, the Invigorating coffee.
- [99:03]
A
Scrub, the Cowboy coffee scrub.
- [99:05]
C
It's nice.
- [99:05]
A
Pretty legit. If you want to be a wholesaler for the beef sticks and. Or the beef tallow products, send an email to Amanda Littlecattle co, also a partner with a printing company called on the Path Printing with Josh Strasberger. You can find us on Instagram. It's at on the Path Printing. Send us a message. Let us know what we can do for you. We've been cranking out orders the last couple weeks, which has been pretty legit. Leif, Jocko and I have a company called Bruiser Arms. You can check us out on Instagram. We are at Bruiserarm. Send us a message about the different custom gear packages we offer. And also, if you want and. Or need a custom training class, we can put that together. We're gonna have some coming out in 2025. Also, we want to thank Origin and Jocker Fuel for all the support they've given us over the years. What they have done is just absolutely incredible. If you think about the story of what Peter Roberts has done with building Origin and then Jocko Fuel, it's just. It's unreal.
- [100:00]
C
He's coming on the show soon, right?
- [100:01]
B
Like, he's.
- [100:01]
C
He's asked to make the appearance. We just got to make it happen.
- [100:04]
A
Yeah.
- [100:04]
B
Such good stuff. I have some of their shirts and hoodies and yeah, they're just such great stuff.
- [100:09]
A
That's good. So I do not suck.
- [100:11]
B
They do not suck.
- [100:13]
A
If you want to check any of their stuff out. It's 100% American made gear. So clothes, jujitsu gear, hoodies, pants.
- [100:21]
C
And it doesn't stink, all that stuff? No, that's the biggest. They've got some antimicrobial thing that they put onto it because, like, I.
- [100:29]
A
It's woven into their. Into their fabric.
- [100:31]
C
So I've got a. I'm wearing a hoodie of a company that I used to wear a lot of their. Their stuff. And after a couple of years, it would. It would stink to the point where my wife was like, I'm throwing this away. We're not. I was like, no, we can do the laundry stripping thing. She's like, I'm not doing that anymore. The origin stuff just doesn't stink.
- [100:47]
A
And that's huge for Jiu jitsu. It is like, for the jiu jitsu gear. Like, I'll be done training. And like, my gi, like, last night, my GI was like, soaking wet and, you know, bring it home. And it's just like, all right, wash it. And it's no fact.
- [101:00]
B
I got some of their training shorts. And now I was like, I was like, I'll try these out. And now I'm like, dang it, now I gotta replace all shorts.
- [101:08]
C
That's how it was with the RTX shirts.
- [101:10]
A
Yeah. And the RTX Burr shirts as well. Like, those are. Those are awesome. But yeah, same thing. When I bought their first pair of their shorts, I'm like, all right. Because I have good shorts from other companies.
- [101:20]
B
Yeah.
- [101:20]
A
And I was like, like, I text, I text Dennis, my buddy there. I'm like, I. I see what you guys did.
- [101:26]
B
Yeah.
- [101:27]
A
And the.
- [101:29]
C
The new joggers. My wife has her eye. I've never owned a pair of joggers. I don't know that I can just because I hate the concept of them. But she's like, this is something I could wear. Like, I could get some origin stuff. Yeah, go for it. And all of their. Their advertising right now is like, get something for both of you. I see what you did there.
- [101:46]
A
That's smart. All right, Jared, what are some of your closing thoughts, buddy?
- [101:50]
B
I. What I tell everyone this has been in fitness and business is try harder. Like, in all honesty. And people ask me to define that sometimes because it's just an effort thing. And what I really mean by try harder, I've actually spent some time to define it. And it's make an attempt in which failure is unreasonable. That's what trying harder means to me. So that means it doesn't mean you can't fail. It doesn't mean just put in all out effort all the time. It just means if you're going to do something, put in the prep, like do your research, all those kind of things to where once you go to do that thing, the chances of you failing are very, very minute because you've done all the prep, you've prepared for that. So that's what I mean. And want everyone to do is just try harder.
- [102:31]
A
Man, I love that. Well, we appreciate you guys listening. I hope this episode has been a reminder to go do the work that's needed, put in the effort, and to never settle. This has been the JP Donnell podcast, episode 65.