← JP Dinnell Podcast
JP Dinnell Podcast
What Makes Leaders Great | The Only Easy Day Was Yesterday | JP Dinnell Podcast 114
01:05:11
Loading summary
Transcript43 lines
- [00:01]
A
Good morning. This is the JPanel podcast, episode 114. I am JP Donnell and as always I have Lucas with me. What's up my man? How are you?
- [00:09]
B
I am doing well. We are finally recovered from a day at the amusement park with my 40 year old body which took way, way, way longer than I anticipated. So in the future the plan is hydrate and get some sleep. Apparently those are fairly important things.
- [00:29]
A
Yeah, hydrate, sleep peptides, trt before and after, all adult activities. So I'm going to kick this off with, and you can take that however you want. I'm going to kick this off with some quotes from a book called the wisdom of the Bullfrog. This was written by Admiral William McRaven. He also wrote two other books, make your bed and see stories. Anyways, I was, I got this book as a gift and I was just reading through the intro the other day and they're like, it's pretty cool man. I'm looking forward to like reading this book. I mean you spend that much time in the SEAL teams, like it's, I think that's just really cool to be able to hear from someone like this. I mean, I mean the guy was in the SEAL teams for a very, very long time to the point of where he was, you know, considered the bullfrog. Meaning he had been in the SEAL teams the longest than anybody at that current time. So anyways, a few quotes. Let's see. 34 years after I started Bud's training, I would be anointed as the Bullfrog, the longest serving frogman and Navy SEAL on active duty in almost four decades of service. I learned a lot about what it took to be a frogman and to lead frogmen. But I was also honored to lead countless others. Green Berets, Rangers, Air Force pilots and special tactics, Special tactics operators, Marine raiders, infantrymen, ship and submarine officers, intelligent and law enforcement professionals, civil servants, doctors, researchers, technicians, students, students and faculty from midshipmen to four star admiral to the Chancellor at of the University of Texas system. Each day, each week, each month and each year, each decade would bring new leadership lessons. So I didn't have that highlighted, but I wanted to read that to kind of like. Sorry, not kind of. I wanted to read that to bring a little bit of edification to who Admiral McRaven is. Whether you like him or not, I think that's an impressive career. And, and I'm not saying that I don't like him by that comment of whether you like him a lot or not. I, I know there's people that like me. I know there's people that don't like me. I think that's always going to be a case in life. But if we can detach from our emotions and, and look at that, that's an. That's an impressive career. So, anyways, just wanted to start kick it off with that. So I' read through some of the things I have highlighted and we can open up a couple different talking points or we can go to Q and A. I know we've had some questions that we've received on the interwebs. And then also this episode is the day after Thanksgiving, so, you know, maybe talk about Thanksgiving a little bit. Hopefully a lot of our listeners yesterday listened to the Sean Ryan show with Jocko Willink on there. I have a little bit of insight on that episode. And, bro, it's. It's going to be good. So. All right, first quote. Some lessons came easy, others brought great pain, but all lessons were of value. Remind you of a certain book in the Bible, Lucas? Nope, Nope. Doesn't rhyme with James.
- [04:16]
B
Sorry.
- [04:17]
A
Back to the quote. All lessons would serve me well in dealing with the challenges that life presented. Man seems really in alignment with a great book of the Bible. But leadership, no matter whether you are a midshipman or an admiral, is never easy. Even those who seem to carry the burden of leadership with ease often struggle. Another quote. Everything in war is simple, but the simple things are difficult. This was from Carl von Clausewitz. He wrote his book on war, and that's where that quote came from. And so he added it in here and then he, you know, same thing. He just reiterated it. Everything in leadership is simple. It's just that the simplest things are difficult. It's just. Now, we've talked about that a lot on podcast. I know Jocko talks about that all the time on his podcast. It's a very common theme in the Extreme Ownership Academy sessions that we have at Echelon Front. It's something that people see real time in the ftxs, the field training exercises that we run at Echelon Front. We give them a simple intel package and they screw it up. Because even the simplest things are going to be difficult if we don't understand how to simplify our plans, our communication, and everything else. So it goes on to say in another quote, it would be simple to say be went. Be men and women of integrity or lead from the front or take care of your troops, but it is difficult to do. Why? Because we are humans and each of us has Our cannot speak right now foibles and our weaknesses, our shortfalls that can. Can affect how we. But as difficult as leadership is, it is not complicated. You smiled. I know. I mispronounced that word.
- [06:26]
B
No, that's not what I'm smiling. I'm smiling because as I'm look, I'm listening to these things. Like, these are the things that we've talked about over and over and over again. And one of these things which I'm starring to come back to, is the idea of leading from the front, because I think that's something that you're exceptional at. So that's something I want to drill down into a little bit more.
- [06:49]
A
In its simplest form, leadership is accomplishing a task with the people and resources you have while maintaining the integrity of your institution. I like that. Maintaining the integrity of your intuition. Next quote. Actually, these aren't quotes. I guess I should say next highlighted section. That'd be a little more accurate, right, Lucas? But leadership is not just about getting the job done. It is also about maintaining or advancing the reputation of your institution. If a. Next highlighted section. If a leader. I'm sorry. If as a leader, you fail the institution you are leading, then you have failed. Period. I like that. Similar to no bad teams, only bad leaders. In chapter two of Extreme Ownership, once again, leadership is difficult, but not complicated. To do the right. I'm sorry? To do it right doesn't require a sophisticated chart, a calculus formula, or a complex algorithm, but it does require some guidance. So how do we make the difficult nature of leadership simple? Next high line section. Serving in the military, I relied heavily on these sayings to guide my actions. Whenever I had a difficult decision to make, I would ask myself, can you stand before the long green table? Since World War II, the conference tables used in military boardrooms have been constructed of long, narrow pieces of furniture covered in green felt. Whenever a formal procedure took place that required multiple officers to educate an issue, the officers would gather around the table. The point of the saying was simple. If you couldn't make a good case to the officer sitting around the long green table, then you should reconsider your actions. Every time I was about to make an important decision, I asked myself, can I stand before the long green table and be satisfied that I took all the right actions? It is one of the most fundamental questions a leader must ask themselves. And the old saying, help me remember what steps to take. He goes on to say, but there are other mottos and sayings that have equal power. So the Army Rangers of your own Accord, British sas Who dare wins SEAL mantra. The only easy day was yesterday. And he says all these sayings have a storied history that drove leaders at the time to make certain profound decisions. They inspired action in the heat of battle and served to strengthen the leader's resolve and to motivate the troops. These sayings are not just words. They are words born of experience, trial by fire, and most written in blood, words worth remembering as we try to shape our response to a problem. The 18 chapters are a mix of personal qualities and professional actions. Every leader must have certain qualities that they exhibit in their personal life if they hope to lead well. So I didn't highlight that last part, but I wanted to add that in there as I get ready to close out this section of highlighted parts from just. That was just an intro, bro. So I'm excited to dive deeper into this book for myself. Just, you know, good memories of the SEAL teams, good leaders that I had in the SEAL teams, and just things that we know are true, like, we're talking about. Does that sound familiar to James? Guess what? These are biblical truths, and that's why they. They serve to be effective. So, last highlighted section. But a strong character alone is not sufficient for success as a leader. You must take actions to build a plan, communicate its intent, inspect its progress, hold people and yourself accountable together. Qualities and actions are the building blocks of great leaders. The road to becoming the Bullfrog was not easy. No road to the top ever is. But I hope you will find wisdom in these pages that will make your road. That will make your road to the top much easier to travel. I like the. The quote for chapter one, Death before dishonor. The most tragic thing in the world is a man of genius who is not a man of honor. That was from George Bernard Shaw. All right, Lucas, how are you doing, man? Besides what we talked about with Dude, I'm great.
- [12:00]
B
And I've got a lot of stuff to drill down on. Just in that first section. We talk a lot. And at Echelon, Fred, you guys talk a lot about the importance of doing the little things well. And I do like that idea that there are things that are simple to say but are difficult to do. And that's the reason that, you know, we. We drill into people. The idea that discipline equals freedom is because it's easy to do these things, but it's also easy to not do them. And. And that discipline and. And all those things is. Is such an important thing. You know, we. We talk a lot about in particular, when it Comes to the gym, you may not feel like going to the gym, or your body may be aching or those kinds of things. You're like, no, I'm going to skip today. But the best thing you can do is to go into, you know, just ride the bike. Just to stay in that discipline of being there, showing up and. And doing the work instead of giving up, showing up, that kind of thing.
- [12:55]
A
Yeah, that's why I've been going to. Anytime my kids are going to jiu Jitsu to train, like, I go with them. And I literally stand on the side of the mat watching class as if, Like, I don't sit down on the benches where everyone else is. Like, I stand right next to the mat, kind of hovering, watching, walking around, watching my kids train, watching the moves while I can't get on the mat. I mean, I guess I could, like, dress out and put my brace on over the gi, but I don't know. In my mind, like, if you can't roll, if you can't train, like, I don't know, that's just my personal thoughts, which I should probably ask for. For me. But the reason why I'm there and the reason why I'm doing that is standing literally on the edge of the mat is so that in my mind, I'm. I'm still there, I'm still training, I'm listening, I'm focusing, I'm watching. And it gives me that. That sense, like, a small sense of accomplishment. Like, no, I know I didn't train. I didn't sweat, I didn't drill, I didn't have hard rolls. Um, but it gives me that. Just that sense of fulfillment that we. That we chase. It's like when you go get a hard workout, like, you want to feel that again. Um, and that's why I'm excited. Like, when we get done with this, like, I'm headed out to the garage gym, and I ha. I've had a. A good little legit workout, programmed and ready to go, which is going to be awesome.
- [14:20]
B
Yeah, man. And it's. It's all about staying with it and those little things. And it's the. It's the little things that make the difference, because it is easy to say, you know, be a person of integr. And the other thing he said, it was easy to say is leading from the front. One of the things that he mentioned, the book on war. There's another phenomenal book. It's the memoirs of General Patton called War As I knew It. And he talks about how important it is for him to know everything that's going on two levels down, but beyond that, that every leader should know what's going on two levels down from them and then what the big picture is, and then the next guy should know two levels down from them what the big picture is, because that helps everybody kind of maintain what they need to do. But he also talked about the importance of the men on the front line seeing him there. And there were a couple of times where guys got shot at and that he, you know, he was around them whenever they got shot at and he didn't flinch. And just the way that. That changed the outlook of the 3rd army because they felt like they were being led by sort of this mythological, you know, guy who can't be killed and all this stuff. The importance of being on the front is. Is great no matter what kind of leader you are making, the time to do that, to see what the guys are doing, but it's different because, you know, he. He would go to the front and then would come back, and he's still, because of the position he's in, he's still looking at the big strategic plan. He's still having to communicate with all these other guys in order to try to. To figure things out, because he was part of that, you know, the bigger war machine in Europe. What you did in the SEAL teams as a point man was that there is no greater leadership from the front than to be going to a place to leading your platoon and looking saying, hey, step where I step, or you, you're going to be in. In a bad way. So when you think about the things that made leading from the front so dynamic for you and made dynamic leader, as someone who could lead from the front, you know, what, what about that position or what about leading from the front do you think is so inspiring for people?
- [16:41]
A
Well, I love, I love the talking points that leading from the front brings up because we actually teach at echelon front, you should lead from the front, you should lead from the rear. You should lead from any place within your team that needs your leadership. Leadership doesn't have a set position, you know, so there's this idea that good leaders lead from the front. But if I was in an actual leadership position, if I was Sestone, the officer in charge, who is our platoon commander, the number one in our platoon, if I was Seth, should I be walking point as a point man leading from the very front? Absolutely not. Because there is an inherent risk. Like, hey, statistically, if we're going to get like in a Gunfight, as we're patrolling, it's probably higher for me to be engaged first from the front now, obviously, getting attacked from the rear, you know, getting ambushed, that's. That's a high probability as well. And I think it flows back and forth. I don't think there's any, like, set calculus for that to his point in the book. Like, there's no set calculus for how you lead. Like, we have to, like, you have to be fluid with your leadership. And so I was able to lead the platoon in patrols and, you know, getting them there, but that was my position, my role and responsibility. And so, yes, I was in a leadership position also during the segment of that deployment, but my job as a point man, it was my job. And it was. If you're in a leadership position, always in the front, leading from the front, then you're actually really failing your people. You need to do something similar to what you were talking about with Patton, which, Which. With. Which is why, geez, words are hard. Which is what Jocko La Seth and other guys in our platoon that were in senior leadership positions, like Andrew Paul as well, that would do. They would be up in the front seeing what's going on, float back to the rear, see what's going on. You know, kind of go back and forth between in the middle of the platoon and, you know, catch a little. You know, just, you know, not catch a little, but being able to gather information. And so what you're wanting to do as a leader is actually find points of friction. So when you're patrolling, Seth was never just two or three spots behind me. There was times he would literally walk right up next to Mikey and I and be like, hey, jp, what do you got? Or if I was in a patrol and we knew, hey, we're going to sit here, we're going to wait, you know, got to get the right timing. I'd go up there and he'd come up to me like, hey, man, what do you got? And I would be like. I would tell him, all right, Roger. And then he would, like, flow back and talk with Benny and be like, hey, what do you got back there? And Benny would be talking with rear security and talking with some of the other guys, and. And so they're, like, floating back and forth again, gathering information, finding points of friction, and helping provide a solution. Whether it was, hey, J.P. i need you to do this, or, hey, J.P. what do you think we should do right now? And in combat, there is a time and place for a direct order. Like, hey, hold left Push right. And it's like, cool. Roger that. Hold left. Pushing right. And we're in flank. And that's not the. Like, well, hey, you didn't really explain to me why we're holding left and pushing right. And you didn't give me the opportunity to create how I'm going to formulate that plan. Like, no, there's a time like, no, we do that in the mission planning, but when we're actually out there doing the work and it comes time to execution, it's like, cool. Hey, hold left, push right. We're going to flank. Yeah, cool. Roger that. Holding left, pushing right. We're flanking. All right. Boom. Set up an owl ambush. All right. Hey, base, start. You know, and we're just able to talk through those things with our people. But I do like when people are like, hey, lead from the front. Because it's a. It's a point in the right direction. Because I'd rather people be leading from the front and recognize like, oh, I shouldn't be up here all the time versus people in the back. And somebody comes up to them and says, hey, what's going on up front? And they're like, I have no idea. They're like, well, why are you back here? Well, that's where the leadership's supposed to be. And you're like, no, you need to get up there with your people. And that's. Again, we see this all the time. And when I say all the time, I mean all the time in the field training exercises that we run at Echelon front.
- [21:34]
B
Yeah. One of the things I really dig about the way that you guys talk about and you do this at the muster, and if anybody wants to, like, really see the big, in depth version of this talk, go sign up for the muster in Orlando, because there is a whole section on leading like this and this style of leadership and why it's so important.
- [22:00]
A
Sorry, there's one thing.
- [22:02]
B
Oh, no way.
- [22:03]
A
We just announced it today.
- [22:05]
B
Oh, well, in that case, go to Ticketmaster and Craigslist and see if there's anybody that's getting rid of their. Their muster tickets.
- [22:12]
A
Or send me a direct message and I'll connect you with ops and if there's any openings we can get you. Yeah, but.
- [22:17]
B
Yeah, yeah, so. But the. Do you guys talk about how the platoon is organized and that one of the things you don't do is put the newest guy at the front because that's an incredibly dangerous spot for everybody else. If the guy who. Who is, you know, fresh out of. Of sqt if he goes to the front, that that's a dangerous thing. And I, I think one of the things that gets missed when we think about that as, as the NCC is when we think about that or when we're looking at leadership in our own lives, that is that if we have a dedicated person who is on mission, who's in alignment with leadership and that is a good solid leader in their own right, that one of the best things that they can teach is just like what you were talking about is teaching the new guys how to follow properly. And I think that that kind of lesson is invaluable because we're so trained nowadays to ask questions. And one of the things that happens time and time and time again and you've experienced the same thing whenever you've talked to leaders is, and I've heard this question at the muster several times is that you'll give instructions to somebody and then they won't do what you've asked them to do and then they'll just come back and say, well, if you would have told me why, I just would have done it. Well, we've got five minutes to accomplish a task. The why is a 25 minute explanation. They chose not to do it because there's a breakdown in trust. One of the reasons that there's often a breakdown in trust is because you don't have a person who is in that kind of frontline cell that you've built up trust with that they can look to for an example to be your leader on the front line, which is, we've talked about this and your misappropriation of your uniform. So where people might have thought you were a little higher ranking than, than you were because you're built.
- [24:25]
A
That.
- [24:26]
B
Yeah. You know, their own fault for reading into that. Right. But no.
- [24:31]
A
100.
- [24:33]
B
But, but in that thing, in those instances when the new guys showed up, they knew that if you're not questioning things until afterwards, that that was the behavior that was expected. So when it comes to front, like how do you model that behavior?
- [24:54]
A
So as you were saying, you know, so there's a lot of. Let me backtrack. There's a lot of different thoughts to some of the things that you said, some of the things that you put in the book, some of the things other people have said and okay, so one of the things that's like heavy on my mind that I want to address is yes, we're not going to put a brand new person as appointment. We're not putting them in a major leadership position. Because they're just not experienced. That's why training is, is extremely valuable. Now, one of the things that I've been doing some personal typing and writing about, just as I was thinking of, like, different thoughts, and I'll just, you know, I've been writing because Jocko's like, hey, that will help you be a better speaker, right? You should write. And I was like, okay, cool. Like, I would like to be a better speaker. You're telling me I need to be writing, I'll be writing. And so anyways, is, you know, one of the things that I like to talk about, and I've been bringing this up at workshops that I'm doing with people, is there's also a need for blind trust. And for me, and when I say that, I love saying, like, hey, there is a need for blind trust. Like, you should trust your leadership. And people give me a funny look because we're talking about building relationships. And what's needed to get trust is you got to give trust. And if I want people to listen to me, I got to listen to them. And all those things that we say make up a relationship. But for me, my perspective as a young, lower ranked member of the platoon is, you know what? I really wanted Seth and Leif and Jocko and Andrew and Benny and these guys to trust me. Like, I really wanted them to trust me. So guess what? I had to give them trust. It's the same thing just reversed going up the chain of command. So guess what? If I want my boss to trust me, I'm going to blindly trust my boss. And if he says, hey, I need you to run across the street, kick in that door, clear out that target and hold security, guess what I'm going to do? I'm going to run across the street, kick in the door, guns a blazing, secure that first crowd. You know, like, I'm going to do that. And if you're like, hey, man, we need you to stand watch tonight from this time to this time in this area, it's super dangerous. Hey, we just found out we need that cover down now. Like, we got 30 seconds to roll out. Guess what my answer is going to be. Roger that. And I might ask some more questions if I have the time to get a little more information. But, Rhett, I don't need to know all the strategic things as to why we need to go do that thing. I'm going to trust my leadership because I know that my leadership got all the information they needed to be able to make a good, calculated decision. And I Also know that my leadership cares about me. They genuinely care about me. They want me to win. They want me to succeed. They believe in the mission. They care about the mission. They're smart and intelligent. Like, I know those things about my leadership. So if my leadership is smart and intelligent and they want to win and they care about the mission and they care about me, and they care about me winning, what's the likelihood they're going to go ask me to do something that is just absolutely ridiculous and reckless and would be detrimental to me? High or low?
- [28:36]
B
It's gonna be low.
- [28:37]
A
Okay, cool. Guess what? I like those odds. If it's low, meaning it's high in my favor and it's high in the favor of my leadership, Heck, yeah, I'm going. And I'm gonna blindly trust my leadership, and I'll take every opportunity I can to get information to maintain alignment. And guess what? As I continue to do that over and over and over, I'm building up, what leadership capital with my people, which means my teammates. It means my peers, which is teammates. But, you know, I could have some subordinates that work under me, and they're like, oh, dang. Like, JP is like. Like his answer is Roger that all the time. Hmm. Maybe that's the way I should act. Oh, hey, guess what? JP has a really good relationship with his leadership. JP makes some mistakes and gets into trouble, but his leadership has his back. I wonder why that is. Oh, that's because J.P. didn't argue with Seth. I didn't argue with Seth. I didn't push back on Seth. I didn't argue with Jocko. I didn't push back. I didn't complain. I didn't argue with Leif. I didn't complain to Leif. I didn't argue with Benny. I didn't complain to Benny. And so that gave me some leadership capital for when I did have ideas, I could bring them up, and as long as it wasn't moronic, they would, like, be, like, cool, yeah, let's run with it. Or if they weren't able to, they would explain to me why, like, hey, jp. Hey, man, I really like that idea. Hey, this block of training, this is what we need to focus on. I'm like, oh, cool. Roger that. That makes sense. Or there was times that when I got in trouble out in town, which I've talked about on Jocko's podcast, and I know we've talked about on. And I would own up to it, and I. I didn't. I didn't lie. I didn't hide it. I. You know, I was just like, boom, yep, hey, I screwed up. I got arrested. This is what I did. And they'd be like, all right, cool. What do you need from us? I'm like, well, I'm in the process of hiring a lawyer, and I'll keep you updated. And they're like, all right, let us know what we can do to support you. That was a response from my command. Let me know what we can do to support you, because I worked hard. Did I make mistakes? Yes. Am I saying that this gives you free reign to go make mistakes? Absolutely not. Because every time I made a mistake and I got in trouble, that was a withdrawal. That was a withdrawal that I could have used for other good things. And, you know, I was young and immature and stupid, and, man, do I regret those mistakes for sure. But one of the things that I've been focusing on that Rob Jones says is I would not change one thing. He goes, I wouldn't change one thing in my life, because that could trigger things that could possibly mean that he doesn't have the life he has right now. It's kind of crazy to think about.
- [31:44]
B
Yeah.
- [31:45]
A
Now, I know that's an extreme thought, but I like that thought because it also gives me peace with, hey, you know what? I've made mistakes. I'm a flawed sin. I'm a flawed human full of sin. And as a Christian, you know, I know God's grace is real. I know his forgiveness is real. I know his grace is real. And guess what I've been shown by every great leader. Forgiveness, grace. Like, you know, I mean, those. It's pretty awesome.
- [32:20]
B
Yeah.
- [32:20]
A
And so while I do have a lot of regrets in my life, you know, I hurt a lot of people, a lot of relationships that, you know, I shouldn't have been in, you know, a previous marriage that, you know, she was cool. Like, we were friends in high school. She's a good human. We never should have got married because that divorce caused a lot of pain to her and to our families. And, you know, like, do I regret that? Yeah. But did I learn from it? Absolutely. And, you know, I look at that from a leadership aspect of, like, you've got to give your people grace. Like, you got to give them, you know, got to show them forgiveness. And, you know, you. You have to build them up. And I saw really good leaders in my life that did that intentionally all the time. And so while they never put me in big leadership positions initially, I was able to be in some pretty legit leadership positions. Over time, when I showed that I was capable and they knew that they could trust me, that's the thing. It's, can you be trusted to do the job? And that's what we as humans need to look at ourselves and ask ourselves, like, are we putting in the work to show that we can be trusted? Yeah. And if you're frustrated with your leadership or your friends or your spouse or your business partner or your parents, you know, if you're young and listening to this and you're, you know, under the age of 18, still living at home, and you're frustrated with your parents, you should ask yourself, what have I not done to build the trust of my parents? And if you're an adult and there's people in your life that you feel like don't trust you or have set boundaries to kind of keep you away, you need to ask yourself, what have you done to create that separation so that they don't trust you or they have to establish boundaries? Here's the other side to that. If I feel like I have to put boundaries in place with people, have I clearly communicated them in a professional, loving manner? Because there was times when I screwed up and I caused issues with my leadership. They absolutely sat me down and were like, hey, this is what you did wrong. Here's the consequences to your actions, and here's what you need to do to get yourself back on track. Here's what you need to establish trust with us again. You know, I know you know this, and I think every listener, if they've listened to a handful of episodes, knows that Amanda and I were divorced. And when we were working on getting our marriage back, guess what had to be established? Number one, trust. 100% on both ends. But it wasn't. I didn't go into it with, like, well, you know, she needs to. She needs to do this so I can trust her. And then she does this, I'll do this. No, I. I knew that I had broken a lot of trust, a lot of trust, and I was trying to rebuild it, and I continued to stumble along the path, and I still do. Like, I'm a flawed human. We all make mistakes. We, you know, we do stuff to break people's trust, whether it's a small thing or a big thing. Like, that's always going to happen. But we have to go look at it through the, like, the lens of extreme ownership. Like, no, what have I done to cause this scenario? So I know we went down, like, a really weird path from your initial question, but it's a Lot of things that have been on my heart that I've been writing about, typing about, just trying to formulate thoughts so I can better communicate these things. But the root of everything that you ask in that question comes down to trust. And that's the thing I like as I'm writing and just formulating these stories and talking points so that I can be a better instructor and communicator through Echelon Front is from my perspective as a young frontline leader of what I should have done different, what I learned from my leadership. And if I was to be in their position, what would I do knowing that that's what I needed the most? Now, Seth did a dang good job, but he wasn't perfect. Jocko did a dang good job, but he wasn't perfect. Leif did a dang good job, but he wasn't perfect. And these guys are still great leaders in my life, but they still don't got it all figured out. Like none of us has it figured out. This isn't, this is a never ending pursuit, you know. That's why I love that Dave wrote in the need to lead. Perfection is a lie. Now we pursue perfection, but perfection is a lie. There is, as he said, no perfect approach, no perfect landing. But as long as you're aware of that and you're making those small little corrections, you'll, you'll have a good landing. I think as leaders that's something we need to think about is like, hey, are you going to have a good landing? Are you going to have a great landing? Are you going to have an excellent landing? Yes, you can. With enough time, repetition and practice, intentional practice. Practice doesn't make perfect. Practice makes permanent. So we have to be intentional with the things that we practice in life. Knowledge is not power. The application of knowledge allows us to do powerful things. I know you and I both know some incredible men and women that know the Bible inside and out. And you and I also know a handful of those incredible people that know the Bible inside and out, yet can't apply it to their own life. Why is that?
- [38:37]
B
No practice.
- [38:38]
A
They're not willing to be uncomfortable and put things into practice. Yeah, they're not willing to get uncomfortable with having a hard conversation, doing honest self reflection. Hey, why are people pushing away from me in my life? Well, it's easy to blame everybody else, but it's really hard to look at ourselves and as a, as leaders, like we have to look at ourselves and that's something that like I have to look at and it's like, okay, hey, if I don't have this close relationship with, you know, somebody that I work with, why is that? What did I do? That's where I need to first look at it. And we also have to be careful. Little lies from the devil, AKA our ego. Whichever word you want to use that's going to put those little like, like little false seeds. It's like, oh, no, no, no. You did everything. You did everything right. It's them. No, no, you were good. It's them. We got to look at the mirror and like, accept what's in the mirror and say, okay, cool. What do I need to fix? What do I need to improve? And that's what makes leaders become great leaders. You can be in a position of leadership, but your leadership title doesn't make you a good leader. What makes you a good leader is your ability to build relationships and influence the people around you. And the great leaders were the ones that were able to do honest self reflections and say, okay, what do I need to work on? And that's where that progression of leadership goes. And that's why, yes, you need to be in the front with your people, seeing actually what's going on. You need to be in the rear talking with your people, thinking strategic. You need to be floating around, finding points of friction and helping people lead. But here's the deal. If you can't lead yourself, how are you supposed to lead anybody else? If your life is a dumpster fire, how can you expect anybody to look at you as a source of wisdom or direction? You can't lead others if you can't lead yourself.
- [40:36]
B
I think that's something that people take for granted, is the idea that we have to lead ourselves, that there's, there's confusion as to what that might mean or, or people take it almost like too literally, you know, like, I can't think of the movie, but there's a movie where they, they give the guy instructions like, watch, watch your butt. And then he just starts spinning in circles because he's trying to watch his own rear end and he realizes that he can't do it. But that's how some people take advice. Like that is like leading yourself that they try to do this thing where they're just like spinning in circles. They don't realize that, like, leading yourself is like setting out your day, learning to prioritize and execute. It is simplifying all of the things that you've got in your head. It's, it's writing things down so that you can sort out through all those thoughts and things like that. And it's doing the little disciplines throughout the day, the simple things that make the bigger things so much easier to go with. I think the, the thing you said to me that maybe stuck out the most and all that is that practice makes permanent as is. That's, you know, that's part of it. And we recognize it with athletes, we recognize it with musicians and actors and all these people who have these really elevated, like sought after skill sets that so many people look at and like, oh my gosh, that's incredible. Then we see it again with the, you know, the elite of the elite when it comes to like our warrior classes, like what you guys did as SEALs, the guys that we've had on the show, you know, like Tony Cowden and those types of guys, you see the skill sets that they possess and then you're like, wow, I want something like that. But it's those little bits of discipline that everybody misses because there's a certain part of everything that all people across all of those groups do that are excellent in their field, which is them. You know, as there's a guy named Jeffrey Gitter says this, you know, they're kicking their own butt, which is another thing. Another one of those things if we take too literally, just spins you around in circles. It just ends up doing butt kicks and nothing productive. There was another quote that, I don't know, McRaven said that I, I thought was really interesting. It's one that I have never heard and that he attributed to, to you guys, which was. The only easy day was yesterday. Unpack that for me. You've never, never heard that.
- [43:15]
A
So.
- [43:16]
B
Because, because like I want to put that on a T shirt but it doesn't sound like we would be allowed to. It doesn't sound like that's ours to use for the JP Danelle podcast.
- [43:24]
A
Nope. Pretty sure that's trademarked for the SEAL teams. Yeah, I'm pretty sure NSW has that trademark.
- [43:29]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
- [43:31]
A
Because there's, you know, there is a place in Coronado called Bullshirt, which is really sad that it's no longer there. There's like I. And it was an iconic place in Coronado for sealed memorabilia and T shirts and almost every Buds class got their shirt made there. So that way if you wanted to get your other BUDS class shirt, you could get it there from Hell Week, you know. And yeah, they're coffee mugs and T shirts and posters and everything. The only easy day was yesterday. And I'm gonna put it out Right now. Like, I don't know the exact meaning behind that. Like, I know there's an official definition of that. I just don't remember it right now. And I could look it up, but, I mean, I don't want to do that. And then we edit it out, and it makes it seem like, oh, I knew that information. No, I'm. My goal, which, you know, and it's your goal as well, is to be as transparent as possible on this podcast, because I believe transparency wins over just these false facades that people put out there. And I almost opened up another door for a rabbit hole. But maybe on another episode in the future, we can go down that one, which, you know, really bothers me, but the only easy day, yesterday, and what it means to me, and I think what it's always meant to me is focus on today. Yesterday. Yeah. The only easy day was yesterday. Meaning, guess what? Today's gonna be hard. And when you're done with the day, you got through it, guess what? Tomorrow's gonna be hard. Meaning what we do in the SEAL teams is we run into battle. We run towards the storm. We run into the storm. We climb the mountains, we go into the valleys, we forge the rough waters. Like. Like, that's what we do. And guess what? When we're done with the day, tomorrow's gonna be harder. Let's go. And it reminds me of the book of James in the Bible, you know, and if we have listeners that aren't believers, that have never read the Bible, just look up the Book of James and just read it. Like, it's an incredible book. And the way I look at it is like, okay, yeah, today was. Today is a hard day. It's really rough. Cool. Guess what? I made it through yesterday. I'm going to make it through today. Keep pushing forward. And, you know, I wish. I wish people just could embrace that mentality to its fullest of like, hey, keep moving forward. That's for me, that's what it was. It's like. And some people might hear that and be like, you're telling me to keep moving forward knowing that it's going to be harder. Yes, because, like, adversity forms us. We get stronger with the. Through adversity, with and through it. Like, working through adversity is what strengthens us. The. The thing that's elevated my jiu jitsu game. And I'm not a great jiu jitsu practitioner, but I've gotten better. I've definitely got, like, Formiga, and other people are like, bro, like, trace that we talked about in the last episode, him and his wife, Victoria. Victoria made a comment. They're like, man, you. Your jiu jitsu has gotten a lot better. Well, it's because I've been putting myself in horrible positions the last year, starting on the bottom, letting people start inside control with, like, submissions partially locked in or in a dominant position or in a mount or north, south, or, you know, just bad positions for me, like, starting in bad positions and saying, all right, cool, I'm going to work through it. And then the next round when I want to kind of, like, maybe go a little bit easier, maybe not start as hard because I'm tired and exhausted. Picking the harder position to start from, picking the harder round is what's helped me get better at jiu jitsu. So for me, the only easy day was yesterday is just a good reminder that, hey, life is going to be hard. Being in the SEAL teams is going to be hard. Combat is hard. Don't quit, don't quit. Keep pushing forward. So that's what it means to me. Because guess what? The guys that don't quit become Navy SEALs. The guys that quit unless they get a chance to come back, they don't get to become Navy seals. So there's no reward. There's no reward in becoming a Navy seal. If you quit, who cares? If it's going to be a hard day, what's the alternative? Guess what? Marriage is hard. What's the alternative? I had a very, very good friend text me and another very good friend. I'm not going to say the names because I'm not going to, because I don't know if there are significant others. Like, listen to the podcast and it says, I don't know how people stay married. Being alone and then coming home and immediately getting nagged about the smallest things just drives me effing nuts. I'd rather be alone with my peace in the mountains or on the beach or anywhere else other than here. I said, yeah, man, it's hard at times, but it's a commitment we've made to our spouses, and that's more important than my own selfish desires. Plus, as you know, communication is key. Part of being married is being willing to have the hard conversations about the things that bother us so we can work through stuff and get aligned. Easier said than done. Then the other person said, JB said that, well, it's way easier than done. And without knowing all the details, I know it can be difficult on both sides. After a long trip, you both get used to doing things your way. Separately. And that was a lot of wisdom from my other friend.
- [49:51]
B
Mm.
- [49:57]
A
The parents. Hard, too.
- [49:59]
B
Yeah. I was gonna say, dude, it's the same thing with kids. You spend a few days without your kids, and the day that you get them back, you're like, I'm done with these little humans. Like, they're. They make my life so terrible and so hard and so difficult. And the truth is, they. They don't actually do any of those things. What. What happens is that your selfishness got highlighted because of their absence.
- [50:23]
A
Bingo. You know, we just had Hayden out with us visiting, and I dropped him off at the airport this evening. Well, I went with him through security and hung out at the gate before he left, and it was an awesome trip. You know, we had so much fun, short trip, but, you know, we did Thanksgiving at the house on Saturday, and my parents and Amanda's parents and some of our other friends with their families came over, you know, that don't have family really in the area, and it was great and, you know, very intentional with the time. Actually, I have a lot of text messages I need to catch up to tonight and tomorrow, because I was just like, no. Like, I'm like, this is family time. Like, we decorated the Christmas tree together. We sat and watched a movie together. We went to Grapevine and walked around, you know, Main street and looked in the different shops and took a bunch of different family photos together. And, dude, it was just an awesome trip. And when I was at the airport and I'm looking at the time on the way on the monitor for boarding, just counting down, county down, like, I was just getting a little anxious because, like, I realized I had minutes left with Hayden. Until I was going to be able to, like, spend time with him in person again. And, like, it was really hard, man. And I felt guilty because of all the time that I've missed with him over the last 15 years of, like, so many things I could have done different. Like, there's so many things that I. I could have done different, and I should have done different. And I also felt guilty because I was coming home and I get to see my other kids, and I, you know, got to go to Jiu Jitsu to watch Aiden train. Did I want to be at class to watch class? Yeah. But you know what I wanted to do? Watch Aiden train and being able to come home tonight and see Amanda and the girls, and I'll get a FaceTime with him. I'll get a talk with him. I'll get a text with him, but I won't be able to give him a hug for a while. I won't be able to, like, Experience him come up to me and just put his hand on my shoulder and just smile and be like, hey, dad, thanks for having me out. This has been a fun trip. Like, I don't get to do that for a while, but I get to do it with my other kids. And I kept watching the time clip down minute by minute, and I was just like, dang, man, this time is fleeting. And then they, you know, they started pre boarding when I got super anxious, and then it was like, all right, concierge key first class, group one, group two, right? They're going through the groups and they call this group. And I walked there with them and I just, like. I had my arm around him, man, and I just, like, didn't want to let go. And. Yeah. And then candid barber. I couldn't walk forward in the line anymore. And I gave him a hug and. And let go. And then he gave me another hug and I hugged him. And I was like, hey, bud, I love you. Have a good trip. And he goes up and he scans his boarding pass. He turns around, he waves, and he's like, bye, dad. I'm like, bye, buddy. I love you. And he gets ready to go down the Enter the little hallway area, and he stops again. He turns around and waves at me and he's like, love you, bye. And I said it again and then gone, right? I'm just like. And, man, it's just. It's just a good reminder also of, like, we can't waste this time. And being married is hard. Being a parent is hard. Being a business owner is hard. Being a member of a team is hard. Being on, you know, in a leadership position is hard. Things are hard, but we have to, like, we have to do these things. There is no alternative. And, you know, I was just a really good reminder of, like, okay, we need to make the most of the time that we have. And, you know, one of the things I've also been kind of typing and writing about, just kind of trying to formulate better thoughts in regards to, like, time. You know, I look at the time that I spent in the SEAL teams and I. At times I feel bad and guilty because I could have done so much more. I could have done so much more in combat, in training, as an instructor. Like, as a seal, I could have done so much more for my community. Like, I should have left a better legacy. And we're all leaving a legacy. It just depends on what legacy Are you going to leave? So it's kind of my thoughts for the evening.
- [56:04]
B
Yeah, dude, I think that's a good way to wrap up this evening. And as you finished up Thanksgiving yesterday and you were wondering kind of where you're at, don't quit. Yeah. Like, no matter, no matter what happened yesterday, no matter if it was good stuff, bad stuff that happened at Thanksgiving, or whether or not you're questioning, hey, what's my legacy going to look like moving forward is that you've got the chance to change for the better today, that the only easy day was yesterday. And that doing the simple things well, leading yourself, that's where all the change comes from. And if you want to continue on that path, keep up with what we're doing. Thanks for everybody who is on the path and is part of the conversation. And we've got a great community around this podcast. If you want people to support you, go comment on our YouTube page, go get involved on Instagram P. Dennell, the P. Dennell Podcast. You can look at both of those things and we've got a group of folks who are ready to encourage and to help you out as we're all on the path and on this journey together. One of the ways you can get helped out, you know, especially after Thanksgiving when the calories don't count, is to go head over to firstinnutrition.com jppod and the folks over at first in Nutrition. Jonathan and Ann and their entire group of coaches that they have will hook you up with four free weeks of nutrition coaching to make sure that you are doing the right things in order to get your nutrition in line. Because if you start taking care of your body, a lot of the mental stuff will start sorting itself out because you'll just feel better. It's incredible how much getting the things right with your body help with the mental things that a lot of people have going on. And you know, you get those things sorted out and it's time to go check out and get your spiritual stuff sorted out. So go look at Jesus and Jiu Jitsu Underscore USA and check out what JP and I are a part of with Jesus and Jiu Jitsu ministry. We do regularly scheduled seminars throughout the year. We've got an open mat coming up in December when people can come and and hang out in the DFW area. We've got stuff happening all over the country in 2026, so make sure that you're checking out Jesus in Jiu Jitsu USA.com so that you can see that stuff there is encouraging stuff on the podcast. There's discipleship material if you want to learn about what Christians believe and how to get deeper in your faith. If you are a believer already, there's tons of great stuff out there that have to do that. J.P. and I are regular contributors on that podcast as well. So make sure that you go check those things out. Those shows come out every Tuesday and it's getting cold. I don't know if you guys are aware of this or not. In Texas, sometimes we're aware of it, but but not often. It was like 87 degrees today, which was quite wonderful. It's a great motorcycle riding weather the week of Thanksgiving when you can just hop out on the bike and it's 87 degrees, but it's not that way every year. One of the best things that you can do during the winter months is to take care of your skin because this is when it gets all chewed up. This is when all of the eczema and all the things that people deal with, this is when it gets the worst is during the winter. So go to LittleCattle Co and look at some the beef tallow skin care products they've got there. They've got an anti itch cream, they've got an after sun care product. But the regular stuff that you just put on your skin day in and day out in order to keep it healthy so that you can weather those winter months or maybe you got a job where you're out in the cold, put a little layer of that, that beef tallow like the old football players used to do with Vaseline and the Ice bowl and the other stuff. It'll keep you warm, keep your skin fresh. And when you get home, your wife's not going to be afraid to touch you because you're going to feel very nice. And over at on the Path Printing, JP and Josh are printing a ton of stuff. You guys just got done with some stuff for Mama Lee over at America's Mighty warriors and just the amazing stuff that they do there. If you have apparel printing needs for your business or maybe for an event that you're doing, go check out on the Path Printing. That brings us to our, our final end to it. If you want to do things, you've heard all of this stuff, you want to get on the path, you want to do things like the guys did on task Unit. Bruiser. Go check out Bruiser Arms. It's jp, Jocko Leif custom gear packages, custom trainings that they do. They've done stuff for Some incredible members of the Jiu Jitsu community and in the special forces community and for the nccs. Go check it out at Bruiser Arms. And then big thanks as always to the folks that keep us fueled and covered as folks over at Jocko Fuel and at Origin. Go use code JPPOD20@jockofuel.com to save 20% on your entire purchase, whether you're a new customer or an existing customer. And go check out those Black Friday sales. Sign up for the email list. They got a bunch of amazing stuff going on right now. They've got a brand new product with the Colostrum and Collagen. If you haven't heard about all the benefits from those things, you got to check it out. It's unbelievable. They've got creatine, They've got the discipline. Go. They also have the hydrate sticks, which save my life while I was at an amusement park because otherwise I would have had no electrolytes in a very little bit of fluid that I decided to put into my body like a dunce. And then over at Origin, they've got a ton of new gear for the winter months. Their winter line is in full swing, so go check it out. Check out the denim jacket that's out there. The rumor is that they're going to re up on the fleece, so you're going to want those or not. The fleece, the. The flannel. The flannel shirts. Now that the winners coming in, there's a ton of cool stuff. Origin USA to come. Go check it out. And huge, huge thanks as always to Pete and Amanda Roberts, folks over at Origin and Jocko Fuel for helping to support everything that we do. Jp, you got any final thoughts? Man?
- [61:48]
A
Yeah, I know what we talked about can be a little heavy and maybe not very hopeful when we're saying the only easy day was yesterday. But guess what? It each day comes to an end and the next day we're given a second chance if we're lucky. And when we wake up and we're able to open our eyes and take a deep breath, it's a new opportunity for us to go out there and get after it. And that's was just kind of my mindset going through buds is hey, just keep moving forward. And one of the things I used to say when I'd be on this long soft sand runs that I absolutely despised. I enjoyed everything in Buds, but there was layers to the. I'm sorry, different levels to at which I enjoyed and I would say the long soft sand runs and Spending time in the cold water was at the very bottom. And I recognized that right away. I recognized how much I despised running in the soft sand. And so every time I'd run, every time my left foot hit the sand, I would say, getting bigger, faster, stronger, getting bigger, faster, stronger. And for me, that little mantra that I came up with helped me keep pushing forward one step at a time. And now that I'm in my 40s and I'm not trying to get bigger, I just change it up. When I go for a ruck or for a long hike or for a run, I just tell myself that I'm getting leaner, faster and stronger so that I actually desire the next step that I get to take. So as we push forward, remember, this is something that we get to do every single day. And yes, the only easy day was yesterday. But every day comes to an end. Every evolution comes to an end. And there is always a reward when those things end. Just like when Hell Week was secured, there is a reward. When we graduated from buds, there was a reward. When we graduated from sqt, there was a reward. When we finished a workup, there was a reward. It was deployment. And when we went overseas and we got to hunt the enemy almost every single day, there was a reward. And when we came home to San Diego, there was a reward. But you can't receive the reward if you're not putting in the work. So I hope this episode has been a reminder to go do the work that's needed, to put in the effort to build your legacy and to never settle. This has been the JP Donnell podcast, episode 114.