Why Most Leaders Lose Their Teams | Leadership Lessons Most People Ignore | JP Dinnell Podcast 140

Summary

JP Dinnell Podcast – Episode 140
“Why Most Leaders Lose Their Teams | Leadership Lessons Most People Ignore” May 28, 2026
Host: JP Dinnell & Lucas Pinckard

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Episode Overview

In episode 140 of the JP Dinnell Podcast, JP (former Navy SEAL, Director at Echelon Front) and co-host Lucas Pinckard tackle leadership lessons commonly overlooked by managers, especially when it comes to navigating business cash flow, managing transient employee bases (like college students), responding to the fallout of letting go of beloved leaders, and prepping for leadership succession. The episode is structured as an in-depth Q&A, with JP providing direct, practical advice rooted in his SEAL and business leadership experience. Throughout, the tone is candid, energetic, and focused on actionable takeaways.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Linking Leadership and Cash Flow

00:28 – 13:10

Main Idea:
Understanding cash flow isn’t just a financial skill—it’s a leadership responsibility.

• JP emphasizes that in small businesses, leaders must learn the basics of cash flow: what comes in, what goes out, profit margins, and the real costs of running the business.
• Leaders often overcomplicate finances; JP advocates for simple math, planning, and discipline.
• Recognizing burn rate and having reserves for unexpected expenses is framed as a survival skill.

Notable Insight (JP, 01:23):
“You have to be able to do the simple math to see what your actual profit margins are... You also have to understand, okay, how much money do you have? What does it cost to operate the business?... Businesses struggle because they don't understand how long it takes to become profitable.”

• Simplifying finances and planning allows leaders to decide whether to scale, maintain, or contract the business.
• Leadership ties in with explaining the purpose (the “why”) of fiscal discipline to the team.

Notable Quote (JP, 05:55):
“It takes a lot more than full-time work to run a business… people lack the tenacity and discipline to actually put in the work. Which means tenacity and discipline to understand the numbers of your business, the marketing of your business... I look at someone like Pete Roberts and Amanda Roberts—they know their business inside and out because they had to.”

Explaining Financial Discipline to Teams

JP details the importance of teaching not just ‘what’ to do, but ‘why’—so employees can make better decisions, not just follow instructions. He uses personal budgeting examples to illustrate practical teaching:

“You want to teach people how to think, not what to think.” (JP, 09:03)

• Break down decisions by showing concrete numbers and scenarios—e.g., reviewing car payments, savings, and credit card impacts.
• Leaders must foster independent thinking by giving teams the info to understand consequences and plan accordingly.

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2. Managing Short-Term/College Workforce

13:13 – 20:36

Main Idea:
Address the root causes of bad habits in graduating/short-term workers, set clear standards, and create a culture where even temporary employees are invested.

• JP recommends confronting outgoing employees’ bad habits directly and using onboarding for new hires to set clear standards and expectations.
• Strategy: Offer high performers a great recommendation letter in exchange for continued strong performance until their last day.
• Leadership means keeping morale high, even if employees are only staying for months.

Notable Quote (JP, 14:39):
“Part of leadership is keeping the morale of your people high… whether they're going to be with you for 20 years or 20 months. Keep your people engaged from day one until their last day, that's a challenging thing.”

• Don’t assume all new employees are just passing through—some may decide to stay if the company culture is strong and appealing.
• JP strongly rejects the excuse that ‘the hiring pool isn’t good enough’ for positive workplace culture.

Notable Quote (JP, 20:02):
“That is such a BS lie—you don’t understand the pool of people. I literally work with companies all across the United States… Every city I go to has good pools and bad pools. I haven’t been to one city where I’m like, oh my gosh, everybody here is horrible. Not one.”

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3. Navigating the Exit of a Beloved Leader

20:48 – 27:32

Main Idea:
When a popular leader is let go (especially for reasons that can’t be openly shared), leaders must communicate clearly, manage rumor control, and actively support team morale.

• JP prescribes a town hall meeting: acknowledge the decision, state that there are legal limits to what can be shared, and invite the team to bring questions and rumors forward for clarification.
• Avoid badmouthing the outgoing leader—recognize their contributions, but hold the line on information you legally cannot provide.

Notable Quote (JP, 21:17):
“It was a very hard decision… but we don’t let people go for no reason… We’d like to open it up for you guys to share what you have heard… and we will confirm or deny the facts. But because of legal obligations… there are details we cannot legally share.”

• Emphasize that decisions are not made lightly, and invite private conversations to ensure everyone is heard.
• Exit interviews and individualized follow-ups can stem further attrition.

Prepping the Replacement Leader

25:14 – 27:32

• Promote from within if possible to maximize cultural continuity and buy-in.
• When hiring externally, be transparent within HR/Legal constraints about the team dynamic and current challenges.
• The first priority for the new leader: build relationships and repair morale.

Notable Quote (JP, 25:31):
“The most important thing you can do is go in and start building relationships and let these people know that you’re there to support them and serve them… build relationships, repair morale.”

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4. The “Second Replacement” Dilemma and Confidence in Taking Over Big Roles

27:32 – 32:29

Main Idea:
It’s a common belief that the person replacing a long-tenured leader is doomed; JP offers practical advice for breaking this pattern.

• While the theory makes sense (that the second replacement succeeds because they learn from the first successor’s mistakes), JP says the key for anyone stepping into a big role is to come in with humility, a clear plan, and to focus on relationships over immediate ‘fixes.’

Notable Quote (JP, 28:36):
“If you take that approach—showing humility, giving ownership—you’re going to be pretty successful in anything that you do.”

• If you’re hesitating because you fear failing as the successor, that’s a confidence issue and a possible red flag for yourself and for your boss.
• Leaders should support potential successors by providing clear expectations and assessing their strengths.

Notable Quote (JP, 31:28):
“Don’t wait for somebody else to fail for you to step in, because that’s not what we do here.”

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5. Closing Leadership Thoughts

37:47 – End

Main Idea:
Discipline and methodical, iterative action are indispensable for leaders—whether in business growth, team-building, or personal relationships.

Notable Closing Quote (JP, 37:47):
“Be disciplined to be slow and methodical, intentional with what you’re doing, but also be disciplined to understand when you need to stop and deviate and pick another path… Hope this episode has been a reminder to go do the work…to build your legacy and to never settle.”

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• “You want to teach people how to think, not what to think.” (JP, 09:03)
• “That is such a BS lie—you don’t understand the pool of people.” (JP, 20:02)
• “Keep your people engaged from day one until their last day, that’s a challenging thing.” (JP, 14:39)
• “Don’t wait for somebody else to fail for you to step in, because that’s not what we do here.” (JP, 31:28)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:28 – 13:10 – The leadership imperative behind understanding business cash flow
• 13:13 – 20:36 – Managing a revolving door of college employee/workforce culture
• 20:48 – 27:32 – Handling the fallout of firing a beloved leader (communication, rumor control, new hire prep)
• 27:32 – 32:29 – Should you be the ‘second replacement’? Confidence and advice for taking over big roles
• 37:47 – end – JP’s closing thoughts on discipline, iteration, leadership, and legacy

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Summary for Non-Listeners

This episode is a crash course in facing hard leadership truths: from mastering the math behind your business to creating resilient, engaged teams, JP Dinnell provides not just tactics but the mindset shift needed to stop leader-team disconnect. The practical steps and blunt wisdom shared are applicable both to business leaders and anyone seeking to level up their impact within organizations. If you need actionable guidance on organizational and personal growth, this episode is a must.

Transcript

[A]

Good morning. This is a JP Donnell podcast, episode 140. I'm JP Donnell, and as always, my buddy Lucas. What's up, my man?

[B]

What's going on, dude? I'm excited to get into some leadership Q and A's. I think we've got some interesting questions that have come up for JP Danelle and some that, you know, people are asking that may be a little bit outside of, certainly outside of what we normally get, but maybe a bit of a stretch for stuff we've answered on the show before. So I'm stoked about that.

[A]

Cool.

[B]

And I'm excited to surprise you with them because we've not gotten to discuss these beforehand, so I'm pumped about that. Also get some natural reaction. All right, so our first question is this. And we're just going to start off with something that I know that you know about, but that others may not see this as something that you are directly involved in, which will be stated in the question. But also, that is something that EF helps with, that they may not know about. So the question says, I know this may not really be your lane, but how do you get people to understand the importance of cash flow in their businesses? We're having some leadership issues. The leadership issues, though, come down to people not understanding how cash flow works. Can you help me with this, or is this something I should go elsewhere to find out about?

[A]

Okay. I mean, cash flow is really important to a business. You. I mean, so a company should have people that understand those things in place. You know, if it's a small company, guess what? Those are things that you're going to have to learn because, you know, you're growing a company. You have to understand what comes in, what goes out, what your profit margins are. It's not super complicated. You have to be able to do the simple math that allows you to see what your actual profit margins are. And you also have to be able to understand, okay, how much money do you have? What does it cost to operate the business? Figure out your profits, and then you can see, like, okay, are you able to grow? Are you just trying to maintain? Like, what's the minimum that you have to be able to produce and sell to maintain? What do you have to be able to do to produce and sell to increase what you're actually bringing in? Like, okay, hey, if a business cost $5,000 a month, right? So all your expenses, it's $5,000 a month just to maintain the business? Well, that means that you have to be making at least $5,000 in profit. Okay, profit to maintain that. And so what is that? What is it? What are your profit margins? If you sell something for, you know, $500, but it costs you $400, that's only a hundred dollars of profit. So how many of those things do you have to sell every month to break even? And I think people really overcomplicate finances. And let's say you raise capital and so you have money to help with. It's called your burn rate. And your, you know, your first couple months of business or first year or whatever type of business it is. If your profit is not like what you're making on all your sales, and so if your sales, your volume is not, you know, meeting your minimal, like st, like your minimal amount each month, then how long can you survive at that current rate? Also you have to look at your growth. Are you growing each month? And then you can calculate, okay, this is. It's going to take me two years at this current growth to be able to break even. And then from there, what are you going to be able to grow? So if an organization isn't understanding cash flow, man, you're gonna have to take the time and do the research. I mean, there's a lot of different little programs out there that help with showing you these things. There's a lot of professionals that this is what they do. They do this, they do consulting for finances with a company. And so you're gonna have to take the time and be disciplined to figure out these numbers in your business, actually write them down, pen on paper, look at those things, come up with a plan and then execute the plan. I mean, that' you know, businesses are going to struggle because they don't understand how long it actually takes to become profitable and then be able to act. And what, what does it take to maintain that? There's also a lot of other factors that, you know, you can figure out research within your industry that you have to be aware of. There's also things that are just going to come out of nowhere that you're like, oh, this was unexpected. And so a business is also going to have to have money and savings in the reserve for unexpected issues so that they can keep that, that business afloat. So, I mean, from a leadership aspect, if I was to break it down for what we teach at Echelon Front, you're going to have to simplify your business. You're going to have to simplify your numbers, and you're going to have to come up with a plan that's simple, clear, and Concise so that the leaders can understand, hey, what we're doing is not effective. Like if we keep going in this direction, here's the numbers. We're either going to have to raise more capital or we're going to have to downsize personnel and or things or we're going to go out of business. And so I think if you're going to look at it from a leadership aspect in regards to what we teach at Echelon front, it's gonna be simple. And then prioritize and execute and then also cover and move. Hey, we're gonna have to cover down. That means, guess what? Just because you're the founder of a company, you're gonna be doing all that stuff, you're gonna actually have to put in the work. And it takes a lot more than full time work to run a business. You know, when people start companies and businesses, they think they can just raise some capital and do the bare minimum and that company's gonna grow. No, guess what? Those companies end up going out of business and, or struggling and not doing what intended to do as a business because people lack the tenacity and discipline to actually put in the work. Which means tenacity and discipline to understand the numbers of your business, the, the marketing of your business, your industry. Like all these things that you have to understand and learn. I look at someone like Pete Roberts and Amanda Roberts, they know their business inside and out because they've done every part of their business because they had to.

[B]

You know, I think there's, there's something about this question in particular that, that really strikes home for me because one of the things that I hear a lot is like, why can't we. Right? Like oh, we want to do this. And especially it comes from. And I'm, I'm, I don't want to come across as like the old man curmudgeon, right? But like we work with a lot of young people and so because of that, especially when you're trying to do things like help them create a personal budget when they're like, no, I have, I have money in my account, why can't I go out? Why shouldn't I go out and hang out with my friends and do these kinds of things, you're like, because your credit card bill or your this is going to be due in four days and you don't have a paycheck between, between here and there. So how much of like understanding something like this? And you know, I would encourage the folks who asked this question go check out our episode that we did with, with David Marr a couple years ago because that's kind of like he's a, an Australian guy who helps out small businesses of thing. And this was growing up a huge thing for, for me. My granddad owned an auto shop and he was really meticulous about his billing. And when one of his sons took the billing over, all of a sudden the, the company was running in the red and they were like, what's going on? Well, he didn't send out any bills for like six months.

[A]

Geez.

[B]

And he's. And then they've got like these 90 day things. So they went at a period where there was, there could have been if these other guys hadn't paid their bills. Nine didn't bring in any money, even though there was all this other stuff. So that's such an important thing. How, how do you help somebody that's got this mentality of like, why can't I? Right? As we're leading people through this type of thing, is this the kind of thing that we need to get like some individual counseling for? Are there trainings and things like that, that, that we need to be doing with this? Or do you just have to like find it, you know, explain it in terms of lemonade stands in order to try to get somebody to understand it?

[A]

I mean, maybe they need help in counseling, but I think that's very rare with most people. Think about this from a leadership aspect. If somebody asked me on my team why? And I say, because I told you so, that's the worst thing I can do if I'm a parent. As a parent, if my kids ask me, if I tell them, hey, don't do this, or hey, go do this, and they say why? And I say, because I told you so, I'm your father. That's horrible. That's horrible leadership and that's horrible parenting. I need to explain to my kids why they need to go do something and why they shouldn't do something so that they understand the purpose of doing something or the purpose of not doing something so that they can start to think on their own. You want to teach people how to think, not what to think. So when it comes to helping people understand a budget, you have to show them. When someone's like, well, hey, I want to go hang out with my friends and or hey, I want to go buy this new car and you said, no, you shouldn't do that. That's not a good answer. Hey, I don't think it would be wise for you to go buy a New car. And here's why. Let's review the numbers. You make X amount every two months. Your rent is this much. Your car insurance is this much. Your current car payment is this much. You have almost nothing in savings. So if something was to happen, you're going to have to put on your credit card. Oh, your credit card interest is this much. Means. And meaning if you pay the minimum monthly amount every month, you are paying it off for X amount of months with this month's interest. So you start showing people all these little things and you say, hey, I know you want to get a new vehicle, but a new vehicle is going to cost X amount, so you're going to have to have this much money to put down. This is also what your new monthly payment is going to be. It's more than what it, what it currently was. Oh, also, it's a newer vehicle, which means the insurance is going to be more expensive. And so, hey, let's do a quick quote. And so you start giving people information to allow them to make a decision based off of information, facts and data, not just, hey, you shouldn't do that. And you know, that's what people need to take the time and calculate. Like, hey, is this a good decision based off my current financial situation? And if you run all the numbers and plug it in to a spreadsheet or write it down on a piece of pen and paper, and then you can say, okay, cool, yeah, I can do that. It's like the same thing. Like, not the same thing, but it's a similar thought process to like, okay, hey, I want to go do this with my family this summer. Okay, this is about what the trip's going to cost. Do I always have that much money in savings? Yeah. Do I have surplus in savings? Okay, cool, go do the trip. But if I don't, okay, trips, it's going to cost me about two grand. Okay, how much extra every month do I need to put aside to be able to do that? Hey, the trip is going to be next year. It's going to be in 10 months. Okay, cool. That means that I need to put aside $200 a month in this account that I won't touch. So that way in 10 months, we have the money. Oh, we need to pay it ahead of time. Oh, that means I need to start a little bit earlier. Because if I have the trip paid ahead of time, then it saves me a little bit of money and it's paid for. Okay, cool. So trip is 11 months away or a. It's still 10 months away. That means I'm gonna start putting $250 a month aside until I hit the 2 grand. It's a little early. Cool. Money's aside trips paid for. I can continue putting money aside for extra expenses on that trip. Also, I don't want to be doing that if it means that if I'm putting money, if I'm saving money for a family trip but not saving money for an emergency fund, that's not wise either.

[B]

Yeah, you're leaving yourself open in those situations and cash flow. I don't want our entire episode to be about that. We got some other, other questions.

[A]

This is not my expertise nor will I ever claim to be an expert on it. Just. But connecting it back to leadership, it's simplify your message and figure out what the priorities are.

[B]

Yeah. At the end of the day it is a leadership issue. Right. Anytime. Anytime you can't explain something to somebody or that you know, especially if you're, you're looking at your, your high and your mid level leaders that if you're not explaining to them what the situation that the company's is going to be right. Then they don't know what, what areas to pick up or how to pick up or those kinds of things. So. And I also think that it's interesting because it's a leadership issue. So many people want to take it with an X's and O's or a numbers perspective when there's more to it than that. So I appreciate you hopping a little outside of our normal question for, for that one to kick things off. Here's the, here's the second one. We hire students and we know that they're only going to work for us for a limited amount of time. We, we work in a college town or our company's in a college town. I'm getting some new students in, but I don't want them to pick up on the bad habits of our graduates who are going out. They're getting ready for their big boy, big girl jobs and the things that they have started to do as they realize that their time here is coming to a close is not healthy for the upkeep of our business. How do I keep the people that they are training from picking up on their bad habits?

[A]

One, you have to address the bad habits of the people on their way out. You've got to address that first and foremost. And then also part of the onboarding should be setting expectations and standards and also letting them know, hey, I know you're only going to be here for 6 months or 12 months or 18 months until you get this, you move on to your next big job. We know that. And you know what? I'm super happy for you. And I'm, by the way, I'm stealing this from Jocko because Jocko was asked a very similar question on his podcast, I don't know how long ago. And the, the response was in either he was asked the question on the podcast or he brought it up on the podcast because there's a question that he got at an event and it was very similar situation. And one of the things that I think is brilliant that I have stolen and used over the years, when people ask these questions at companies I'm working with through Echelon, Front is set the expectations and standards from the get go. And then also tell them like, hey, I know you're going to leave and that's okay, it's just part of it. But I'll tell you what, whenever you're done working here, if you do these things, I will write you the absolute best recommendation letter than you could ever imagine. Instead of just putting us on your resume for what you do for where you worked, I will, I will hand write you an amazing recommendation letter for as many places as you need. But here's the things that you have to do. You have to be able to, you know, and so you set the expectations of, hey, if you perform, if, if you work hard from day one till your last day, here's what I'll do for you. And dude, here's the deal. Part of leadership is keeping the morale of your people high. Which means if you have people that are on their way out, keeping the morale high and keeping them disciplined and locked in, and that's your job as a leader, whether they're going to be with you for 20 years or 20 months, keep your people engaged from day one until their last day, that's a challenging thing.

[B]

Especially if, you know, if you are doing stuff in a college town or you've got folks that are going to be in just temporarily, making sure that they're happy until their last days is a challenge. But it's also one of the things that's going to keep your business and your stuff sustained. So I like that answer.

[A]

And here's the other thing. You don't know that they might not. Something in their life might change and they might stay with you. So if you're also going into these relationships with the preconceived idea of like, I really don't care, they're going to be gone in 18 months or whatever that time frame is. That's not fair to them. What if they choose to have a career there? We were at Central Market last Friday, Corey, Aiden and I, and he ran into one of his buddies that was working at the meat market or the butcher area, whatever you call it, the meat counter in the back. And they were talking and Aiden's like, hey bud, what are you up to? Or he asked Aiden what he's up to and Aiden told him. And Aiden asked him, he's like, what are you up to? You going to college? Like, what's new? And he goes, you know, I was going to, but I think I'm just going to stick it out here and build a career. Because he's like, it's a really good company to work for and I get paid well and I like what I do. And I just smiled, I looked at Corey and Corey kind of gave me the head nod like, heck yeah, man. Like, this is a 20 year old kid who wants to build a career at Central Market because he likes the job. It's a good company, good pay, good benefits, like, cool. Guess what? We need that. We absolutely need that. And the kid's attitude was I was just like, man, this is awesome. So to all the people out there, they're like, oh, the young, you know, generation, blah, blah. Yeah, guess what? You were that young generation also. And hey, create the right culture where your people want to work with you and for you long term. Last thought on that. And this is a phrase from the military, especially the Navy. Choose your rate, choose your fate. If you've got a business that you created, that you're running that is in the realm of, hey, we only hire a bunch of college kids and they're all temporary. No one made you do that. That was your choice. So you're going to have to figure out how to manage that for the rest of your business. Because if that's the people you get all the time, then you've got to find a way to make that company absolutely amazing and epic and fun. Because guess what college kids want. They want to have fun. They want to come into work, they want their bosses and their co. Like, you've got to create a culture that is incredible to where your people are like, hey man, I want to go work there for the next 18 months, I want to work there. And when they leave, they should be kind of sad because the likelihood of them getting what you created somewhere else, not so much.

[B]

That's a great point. And you know, there's there. I think there will be people that will be like, well, you don't know the pool that we're pulling from. It's like, if you make your place cool to work at, then it doesn't matter. Then the people who are hard workers will come there.

[A]

I don't buy that. That is such a BS lie. You don't understand the pool of people. I literally work with companies all across the United States and every. Every city I go to has good pools and bad pools. I haven't been to one city where I'm like, oh, my gosh, everybody here is horrible. Not one. Let's just say that is true. Why'd you open a business there?

[B]

That's a fair point. Yeah.

[A]

Like if, If. Which it's not, but if it was true, then why'd you open a business there? If the pool of people is so horrible, then may. I mean, I don't.

[B]

You didn't do enough front end research. Yeah. Okay, next question. We had to let a leader go. His team can never know why. We had to part ways. He's getting to spin his own narrative. Our attorneys won't let us say anything. Now, since he was a team or since he was a leader who was beloved by his team, we. We're losing people left and right. How do we stop the bleeding?

[A]

Okay, town hall meeting, all hands, bring everybody in and be like, hey, unfortunately, as you guys know, we had to let so and so go. It was a very hard decision. But as you guys know, we don't let people go for no reason. Now, we would like, you guys, we would like to open it up for you guys to share what you have heard from so and so. And we will confirm or deny the facts. But because of legal obligations that we have to you and this company, there are details we cannot legally share. But we want to open it up and we will answer every single question that we possibly can. But I also want you guys to know we don't fire people for no reason. And, and then I would ask people, hey, why do we. Why would we fire somebody from this organization? Is it from doing the right thing? Is it from working hard? You know, and I would just. I would just let it go from there and then just open it up. Answer what you can answer. Understand that people are going to be frustrated, but if you're bleeding, if people are bleeding out right now, not doing it something and not saying something is going to be way worse. Say what you can say, minimize their concerns, mitigate the rumors being spread and say, hey, what have you guys heard? Nope, that's actually not true. I'm sorry that you. I'm sorry that that was told to you, but that is not true.

[B]

You know, I wonder, and you obviously have had a lot of experience working with different businesses like this. Seems like it's probably a more common thing than we would anticipate is that there's somebody within the organization that has done something where they're let go, but, you know, their team loved them. Right. Like, and we see it in sports all the time, right. That there are these guys who are these locker room guys that just like, don't perform or they've got something like weird and hidden and then, you know, it comes out six months down the road after they've spun this narrative, and everybody's like, oh my gosh, I can't believe we were following him. But, you know, they've done damage to relationships and stuff in that. So is this something that is fairly common with the organizations that you guys work with?

[A]

Yeah, but, yes, it is. But the other part that I didn't share and I would like to add to that is this is not an opportunity to badmouth this person. It's, hey, want to open it up to communication? Hey, you know what? We really appreciated so and so, man, they did a lot of great things. We're very appreciative of the time that they spent with us. We made the decision as an organization to part ways and we wish them the best of luck in what they do next. What questions do you guys have? If you guys have any concerns, now's the time. Let's talk about it and just let it be. Also, make sure you're following your HR and legal guidelines when you're having this conversation. And then I, I would, yeah, you know, I would be doing exit interviews for people that you're saying that are bleeding. And then also, like, do the all hands. And then if there are people that you think are of concern now, obviously you open it up. Like, hey, if you have concerns, please come to me directly and we can have a private conversation if you're more comfortable with that. And then have those private conversations. People want to know that they can be heard. And that's what you have to do as a leader, is listen to people's concerns.

[B]

So how do you prep the follow on hire in this situation right now? This isn't a question that, that they asked, but this is one that, that I'm asking is because there, there are two ways to look at this, right? Is that you, you can Kind of bring them in with no experience or knowledge of the situation, let them assess it themselves. Or do you bring them in somebody

[A]

who's replacing that leader?

[B]

Yeah, yeah. When you're replacing that leader, like what, what info do you, do you give them? How do you prep that person to take, to take this position when you know that you're bleeding people and you know that there's a lot of bad information that's going around and it's, it's affecting the company culture?

[A]

Well, ideally I'm going to find somebody from within and hire and promote from within that already understands the culture, that understands the dynamics and I'm going to see, I'm a look and evaluate my team. I'm like, all right, cool. Like who has some influence over the team, who's capable of stepping in this leadership position, who is coachable and teachable to where I can help prep them and put them in this position. And maybe it's a lot of hand walking at first, but I'll hand walk somebody internal instead of going external because now you're in a hand walking culture and all those other things. That's just my personal opinion and thought on that. Now you're bringing somebody from the outside. Okay. Follow legal and HR guidelines of what you can share and also share with them. Like, hey, here's what you're up against. We had to let go a leader. They're loved and respected. We had to make these decisions. Share what you can with this leader of like, hey, here's what led us to this decision. I just want you to know what you're up against. This guy or gal was loved and unfortunately this has caused a lot of issues in the organization. We are losing people. So that is going to be something that you're going to have to be aware of. Like is, you know, there might be some resentment against you because now you're replacing this person. The most important thing that you can do is go in, go in and start building relationships and let these people know that you're there to support them and serve them and build relationships and you know, and then give them the next step. So I'm going to give them everything I legally can based off of my HR guidelines. I'm going to lean heavy on hr. Like HR is there to protect the company and so I'm going to lean on those resources and I'm going to make it very clear that this leader's primary responsibility is to go in and build relationships and repair the morale of, of their team.

[B]

All right? So I'll I'll ask the question that kind of sparked to this one because it's the, it's the last one we'll look at today. This guy says, I've heard it better to be the second replacement. For example, if a person leaves a position after 20 plus years, the immediate replacement normally doesn't last very long in that position because of mismet expectations or some things. And the person that follows them is normally the one that does. Well, we're having some hiring that's happening within the company following a person who is 25 years plus and retired. I'm up for the position and I'm curious as to whether or not this is true. I'm concerned that if I take this spot that I may be short lived in the position versus waiting until someone else takes it and then applying for the position if they don't succeed.

[A]

I mean, yeah, I don't have any data or facts to back that up.

[B]

Yeah, but interesting though, I mean, it makes sense. The premise makes sense.

[A]

Yes, the premise makes sense. And I would just say if, let's say that is a factual statement, like statistically that is something true. Well, the reason why that is, is you're getting to watch the mistakes that they made and learn from those mistakes and not do those things right. So go into it with a plan, a very thorough, thought out plan of alignment with your leadership and focus on building relationships. Because I think the big mistake that people make is they come in and be like, I got to come in and fix these people, I got to fix them around, I got to whip them in shape, I got to hold the line, we got to reset. Okay, well that typically doesn't work out well. And I think about the story that Jocko talked about when his platoon commander got fired and they brought in that legendary SEAL Charlie Delta to come in and they're like, oh man, he's going to come in and, you know, whip us in shape and fix us. And this legendary SEAL shows up and says, hey guys, heard about what happened to your last boss. I'm sorry, I'm really looking forward to working with you guys. And then the dude was doing the activities that new guys are supposed to do, like take out the trash, sweep up the office. And then he started just giving ownership to the guys right away of, hey Jocko, you and so and so are going to be in charge of planning out this training mission later this week. Let me know what you need from me. So the guy comes in, shows humility, says, hey, I'm sorry, heard about what Happened to your last boss. I'm sorry. Really looking forward to working with you guys. And then got to work, figured out his job, his task, his gym, started to get to know his people, was taking out the trash, sweeping the floors, doing work that new guys in trouble are supposed to be doing, and then started driving ownership down to his guys. I think if you take that approach, you're going to be pretty successful in anything that you do.

[B]

Yeah, I'm. I wonder. And this would be more a question to you about the person asking this question. Is this, like, as you're. You're listening to this and this is your personal opinion, Right. Is this a confidence issue? Like, if you're having to ask the question of whether or not I should wait until the, until the guy. Until somebody else fails before I do this? Right?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah. So if you're in that hiring position and you just, let's say you hear it through, you know, the grapevine, the water cooler, whatever, that, hey, Gary is thinking about the position, but he thinks it might be better for him to wait until the guy, the. The new guy fails. Right. Are you ever gonna think, right, like, what's your opinion of this guy now?

[A]

Well, one, I'm gonna have concern as to why Gary lacks that confidence. And I'm also going to look at myself as a leader and wonder, like, what does Gary think about me as a boss and why we would put somebody in a position to fail? And because if you're thinking the first person coming in is going to fail, that means that you think I'm putting them in a position to fail. I don't want anybody on my team to fail, especially of a leader that I'm bringing in. So I'm going to evaluate myself as a leader, the relationship I have with my people, and then I'm going to go sit down and talk with Gary and be like, hey, Gary, you know, I heard you have some concerns about taking this spot because of. Blah, blah, blah. Here's why I think if this is true, here's why I think you would be good for this position. Here's what's expected of you in this position. What is this unreasonable or are these things that you can do? Because if you're humble, coachable, teachable, passionate, we can make this work if you want it. If you don't want it, that's fine. But don't wait for somebody else to fail for you to step in, because that's not what we do here.

[B]

These are the exact kinds of things that make or break people in Organizations are these types of questions. I know we started off in a weird, in a word place with a question about cash flow and then talking about, you know, yeah, do we have

[A]

to do like a legal statement like these are not legal, blah blah blah, please. Financial expert.

[B]

Right. But, but the thing is is every one of these questions is a make or break question for any organization. If your organization doesn't understand cash flow, you're not going to be able to be successful. If your organization doesn't understand hiring practices or you're, you're in a place where, you know, everyone that you are hiring is a limited employee. If you're in a place where you're having to look at, you know, how to replace a long term leader or you know, what stepping into new roles and things look like. These are the make or break questions that a lot of companies have to have to deal with. And you know, being able to provide some answers for them are clear ways where people can look at themselves, do some self evaluations and move forward and those kinds of things, man, I think is absolutely invaluable. So thanks for jumping outside of your comfort zone with a couple of these and answering them because I think that their questions, no matter what, whether it's personal budgets or whether it's company stuff, all of us are going to have to face the harsh realization that every one of these questions has to be answered at some point in our lives with our home budget, with our individual budgets, and also with the businesses and the companies that we work with and how we we go about it, man. So I really appreciate that these topics and so many others are covered in the stuff that happens in the Extreme Ownership online academy. If you go to echelonfront.com and go check out the Extreme Ownership Academy, there are Monday afternoon calls where they pick a topic whether it is one of the laws of combat, one of the mindsets for victory. Maybe it's based off of a question that they've been consistently having to answer on these live calls. The instructors from Echelon Front, jp, Leif, Jocko, Carlos Rob, Dave Burke, James Cochran. So many of these incredible instructors will sit down, answer your questions and talk about a specific topic. You can look at some of the courses that they have online about like how to create a company culture, what to do with safety stuff, how do you create a company culture of extreme ownership? All of those types of things are available online. As well as looking at the books Extreme Ownership, Dichotomy, Leadership and the new book that completes that triad, the need to lead by Dave Burke. If you have not already gone to Origin USA and signed up for the Origin Insider stuff, you need to go check that out before America's 250th. They've got some amazing stuff that always comes down around 4th of July. If you want to be on the list of folks that is able to get that and be at the top of that list, make sure you go check out OriginUSA.com as well as Jocko Fuel. Huge thanks and shout out to them for keeping us closed keeping us fueled to do this podcast. If you use code JP Pod20 you'll save 20% on everything over [e-mail] one of our partners that we we know uses Jocko Fuel supplements. They're on that Monday afternoo call is the people over at first in Nutrition. If you go to firstinnutrition.com jppod you'll get four free weeks of nutrition coaching. They're the folks that are helping JP and I get in the best shape that we've been in. Even if JP's wife is not ready for him to be sub £200 just quite yet. That you know they're they're helping us maintain muscle, lose fat and be the best versions of ourself from a health perspective that's out there. Summer is here. So go make sure that you check out LittleCattle Co to get the beef tallow after sun care as well as the Andy Itch cream because sun not only means sunburns but it means mosquitoes and for those of us who live in about a three mile proximity of the lake they are out. And I guarantee you that these are the biggest mosquitoes that we have ever seen. Like I, I think that one was nearly one of the size of my children the other day that was flying around our backyard. This massive mosquito mosquito. So make sure that you go check that stuff out. If you have apparel printing needs, go check out on the Path Printing. They do some amazing work there. If you want stuff for your company or for your organization, maybe you've got a non profit or charity or something that you're working with that needs something for a 5k run or something like that that you guys are prepping to do. It's the season for so many of those things. Go check out on the Path Printing and as always a huge shout out to the guys over at Bruiser Arms with JP Laif Jocko. The the packages that they put together of custom gear packages as well as the custom training that they can provide for you or your company are things that are going to be invaluable to you, whether it's a team building exercise or something that you need to do to make sure that you can properly defend yourself in your home. Go check out what those guys are doing over there. Links to all of that stuff is in the show notes as well as the folks over at Relive Health who have helped us out a tremendous amount that they do the most comprehensive blood tests that are out there as well as making sure that you are on the path, your hormone replacement therapy if that's something you need, as well as other things to just make sure that you keep your health in check, man. Again, check out all that stuff in the shownotes and JP before we close out episode 140. Can't believe we made it this far. What final thoughts do you have for us?

[A]

You have to take the time to be discip. I'm sorry, you have to be disciplined to take the time to know your business. We had a lot of business questions today and take small iterative decisions and steps before you over commit. When you're building a team, building a business, a relationship, you know, that's why, you know, you tell people in relationships, hey, take it slow. You need to get to know that person in business. Take it slow. Now there's a time to run and sprint, but that comes with years of wisdom, experience, opportunity. But even then, people that seem like they're going all in with these businesses and sprinting, they're making a lot of small iterative steps and decisions along the way. So make small iterative steps. Be disciplined to be slow and methodical, intentional with what you're doing, but also be disciplined to understand when you need to stop and deviate and pick another path. So I hope this episode has been a reminder to go do the work that's needed to put in the effort to build your legacy and to never settle. Been the JP Dennell podcast episode 140.