JP Dinnell Podcast 073: "Winning and Losing: Hard Truths About Leadership"

Date: February 14, 2025
Host: JP Dinnell & Lucas Pinckard

Episode Overview

In this episode, JP Dinnell (former Navy SEAL, Echelon Front instructor) and Lucas Pinckard engage in a heartfelt, practical discussion about leadership lessons drawn from both their recent experiences competing at a Jiu Jitsu tournament and from decades of leadership training and battlefield experience. They reflect on handling wins and losses, the importance of mindset, vulnerability, training, and maintaining humility as a leader. The episode features candid Q&A, practical coaching tips, and memorable storytelling, all aimed at helping listeners become more effective leaders—on the mat, in business, and in life.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Recap: Jiu Jitsu Tournament & Mindset

• [00:32] Lucas recaps his preparation and mindset leading up to, and during, a recent Jiu Jitsu tournament:
  • Struggled with weight-cutting due to busy schedule and life stresses.
  • Chose to move up a weight class to prioritize health and obligations.
  • Emphasized listening to advice, embracing realistic self-assessment, and finding enjoyment in the process over results.

“The only thing that is going to help me get by and survive is going to be what little I know in defense and not being strong enough to where I'm not being thrown around.” — Lucas [02:49]

• [05:23] On Match Day Mindset:
  • Focus on "staying loose," drawing on lifelong experience performing in front of people.
  • JP contrasts this with his own intensity:

    “We approach competition very different… that's not me, man. That will never be me. Like, the guy that's just fully laid back, shut it off? Yeah, it's not me.” — JP [13:19]

2. Performance Under Stress, Transferrable Skills & Adaptation

• [08:25] JP compares stage performance (music) and SEAL team training to competition:
  • Both require processing lots of inputs under stress (e.g., clearing rooms, adjusting in real time).
  • Success comes with deliberate, stress-induced training that teaches how to think versus what to think.

“You really have to be intentional with teaching guys how to think, not what to think... Processing all those things as I’m also shooting, moving, communicating, listening to the radio. It’s a lot.” — JP [09:00]

• [10:27] Lucas realizes value in his cross-domain experience and self-awareness during the match.

3. Handling Defeat, Ego, & Real Learning

• [12:30] Lucas, having lost both matches, reflects on awareness, information processing, and self-improvement.
• JP and Lucas discuss the importance of being authentic, embracing your natural tendencies, and seeing through others’ perceptions.

“People do think the same thing about, like, ‘oh, he's just like… being loose and goofy... that’s, you know, he's putting on a show.’ It's like, that is just how I am.” — Lucas [23:51]

4. The Coach's Perspective: Observing & Developing Others

• [14:09] JP admits discomfort in the coaching role (“I’m not a good coach, bro… I have a hard time telling you what to do and how to do”), but recognizes and praises those with high 'Jiu Jitsu IQ' like Aiden.
• Discussion about cultivating potential in others, even when they come from challenging backgrounds or have unique obstacles to conquer (e.g., Aiden's neurological challenges).

5. Community, Family, & Support

• [16:00] JP shares about family support systems around Aiden, the power of community, and embracing blended families.
• Explores how legacy, coaching, and encouragement within a family can impact athletic and personal growth.

6. Winning, Losing & Growth Mindset

• [18:41] JP and Lucas reflect on key tournament takeaways:
  • It's not about medals, but growth and showing up.
  • You never know your competitors’ backstories—focus on your own development and journey.

“When you see somebody... not having an attitude of gratitude… look at that as a coaching opportunity.” — JP [45:04]

7. Authenticity in Leadership & Social Media

• [24:03] Deeper dive into public perception, social media personas, and balancing transparency with professionalism:
  • Authenticity is powerful but oversharing real struggles online can be risky.
  • Think through whether vulnerability will help others, or simply expose you to unnecessary criticism.

“On social media, we're only putting out our highlight reels... you want to be transparent, but... you can share too much... which could be portrayed the wrong way.” — JP [28:14]

8. Leadership Q&A: Vulnerability, Sharing, and Coaching

• [34:56] JP discusses the importance of sharing leadership failures for others to learn from, tying battlefield lessons from Extreme Ownership to the business world.
• Cites Jocko’s advice: embrace mistakes, but make them small and in training—be proactive, but controlled.

“People don't wake up wanting to make mistakes… you're going to make mistakes when you step up to lead and solve problems… But that's ok: make them small.” — JP [36:04]

• [36:19] Advocates for emphasizing training and simulation in leadership development.

9. Tactical Leadership: Time Management & Communication

• [36:31] Sharing fails, not stories—how much to share, balancing time, and clarity:
  • Always consider available time before sharing stories or lessons.
  • Have versions of your message (30 second, 3 minute, etc.) ready, per audience and context.

“How much time do I have with them and what amount of time is needed to get the point across?” — JP [36:33]

• [40:14] Gratitude as a leadership cornerstone and coaching opportunity.

10. Setting the Standard, Showing Grace, and Accountability

• [45:41] Discussion on holding the line versus showing grace:
  • Always start with self-assessment as a leader.
  • Show compassion and patience, but recognize when it’s time to shift to accountability to maintain team standards.

“Let me make sure my house is clean before I’m telling you you need to clean up your house.” — JP [47:42]

11. Effective Storytelling & Listening as a Leader

• [49:46] JP: The best stories are tailored in depth to the listener’s needs, always guided by real-time feedback and information gathering.
• [52:16] Default to listening—ask questions, don’t assume; let others arrive at their solution.

“The default is listen. You should always be listening. How are you supposed to solve problems if you don't have information?” — JP [52:16]

• [55:31] Listening enables real understanding; storytelling comes after.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On self-critique and humility:

  “You have to remind yourself that you always haven’t been the most gracious... through life experiences and coaching from other people, you've been able to grow…” — JP [44:58]

• On default mode as a leader:

  “Every single one of us is leaving a legacy. What type of legacy are you going to leave?” — JP [45:46]

• On ego and storytelling:

  “People like to talk, share their stories... Because it's ego driven, which is, trust me, I get it. I love it.” — JP [55:51]

• On action:

  “Whatever that hard thing is that you're afraid of, just go do it.” — Lucas [62:30]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Jiu Jitsu Tournament Recap: 00:32–12:30
• Performance under Stress & SEAL Training Parallels: 08:25–10:27
• Losing & Growth Mindset: 12:30–23:51
• Coaching and Observing Others: 14:09–16:39
• Community & Family Support: 16:00–18:41
• Authenticity and Social Media: 24:03–32:58
• Leadership Q&A (Failures, Training): 34:56–38:01
• Time Management & Simplifying Communication: 36:31–42:55
• Gratitude and Coaching Moments: 40:14–45:04
• Grace vs. Accountability: 45:41–49:46
• Storytelling vs. Listening: 49:46–56:42
• Closing Reflections & Calls to Action: 62:30–63:03

Key Takeaways for Listeners

• Winning and losing are less about medals and more about mindset, growth, and character.
• Effective leaders self-assess, communicate with clarity and brevity, and default to listening over telling.
• Training, both in skills and in handling stress, is a non-negotiable for personal and team success.
• Authenticity matters, but discernment is needed when being vulnerable—both online and off.
• Balancing grace with accountability maintains team standards and fosters growth.
• Humility and gratitude are essential to sustainable leadership and legacy.

For more:

• Follow JP (@jpdinell), Lucas (@lucaspinckard), Echelon Front (@echelonfront), and Jesus and Jiu Jitsu for leadership content, upcoming events, and resources.
• Learn more at echelonfront.com and check out related business ventures mentioned in the episode.