#1439 Slap Bang

Summary

Juicebox Podcast: Type 1 Diabetes

Episode #1439 – Slap Bang
Host: Scott Benner
Guest: Marnie (age 29, diagnosed T1D at 17)
Date: February 20, 2025

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EPISODE OVERVIEW

This episode of the Juicebox Podcast dives deep into the mental, emotional, and practical sides of living with Type 1 diabetes. Marnie, diagnosed at 17 and the daughter of a fellow T1D, discusses her journey from shame and denial to community, improved management, and peace of mind. Through stories of struggle, humor, and personal growth—including raw insight into anxiety, panic attacks, and the turning points that changed her relationship with diabetes—Marnie provides a candid look at what it means to move from survival to thriving with T1D.

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KEY DISCUSSION POINTS & INSIGHTS

Marnie’s Diagnosis and Early Experiences

• Diagnosis Story
  • Diagnosed at 17, after a serious illness and classic T1D symptoms over Christmas (05:05-08:25).
  • Her mother, also T1D, recognized the signs quickly due to nighttime bathroom visits:
    • "She just remembers me getting up in the night, go to the toilet... She thought of...let's do a blood meter test on you." (06:20)
  • High initial BGs (28 mmol/L, then 32 mmol/L / 504 & 570 mg/dL) confirmed diagnosis.
• Initial Management
  • Discharged without intensive hospital intervention, relying on her mom’s experience.
  • Marnie didn't fully understand the seriousness until seeing her mother's emotional reaction:
    • "I remember hearing her just sobbing downstairs and I think in that moment I was like, oh my God...this is going to change my life." (12:04)
  • Her mother experienced guilt and surprise, not realizing T1D could be genetic.
• Family and Genetics
  • Marnie’s mother is also T1D since age 10 (in the 1970s); a sister has hypothyroidism.
  • Family played the "test mum's blood sugar" game, which Marnie always avoided (07:35).

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Emotional Impact and Growth

Hiding, Denial, and Shame

• Denial and Pretending
  • Marnie fulfilled the minimum requirements, hiding poor BG management from others by manipulating meter logs and lying about numbers at clinic visits:
    • "I would purposefully test when I knew my blood sugar was good so you'd see a good number... It almost gave me that good feeling..." (24:02)
  • Alcohol, partying, "other things one might do at a party"—she admits risky behaviors and self-deception.
• Shame and Judgment
  • As a teen, she tried to hide her diabetes management:
    • "I'd take myself off to the toilet, I'll do insulin on the toilet, away from everyone...I just got into this sort of mentality of, I'll take myself off to the toilet..." (66:44)
    • Felt certain everyone was staring or judging, though now recognizes this was self-imposed.
• Change Over Time
  • Now openly manages diabetes—"I will make eye contact with someone on the bus and inject them dead in the eye." (67:32)
  • Finds joy and connection in being open, especially when meeting others with diabetes.

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Mental Health: Anxiety and Panic Attacks

• First Panic Attacks
  • 2023 became her "year of the panic attack" after two severe stomach bugs caused intractable lows and helplessness (40:27–45:33).
  • The anxiety of being unable to control her BG during vomiting and feeling alone led to panic episodes at work and home.
• Intrusive Thoughts
  • Developed compulsive checking habits and trouble trusting in good management, fearing any low would spiral into another crisis.
    • "I'd have really nice graphs and I just couldn't rationalize in my head that I'd put in the work to have the nice graphs because this anxiety was just clouding everything." (47:38)
• Cognitive Breakthrough
  • After considering therapy, a conversation with her mom reframed her thinking:
    • "She just looked at me and she was like, 'No, because we're both here. And why would you let that stop you living your life?'" (52:25)
  • Realized she can't let fear dominate her life and now feels more at peace.

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The Turning Point—CGM and the Power of Knowledge

• Continuous Glucose Monitoring (CGM)
  • Getting a Libre in 2021 was revolutionary; could no longer ignore patterns between fingerpricks (26:51–28:55).
    • "It was just the ability to not be able to ignore things like I was doing before...I can do so much better." (27:04)
• Juicebox Podcast Community
  • Found the podcast after seeing it recommended on Instagram; started at episode 1 for a chronological journey (“I refuse to do it out of order.” 28:55).
  • Gained life-changing practical knowledge—how fat, protein, exercise, and timing all affect BG—and saw improvement:
    • "Just as I listened more and more, it was things like, you know, like, consider fat and protein and exercise and just everything you speak on, really..." (32:51)
  • The community—both the podcast and the private Facebook group—became a reliable source of support and diabetes-specific solidarity.
• Sharing with Family
  • Now discusses management and strategies with her mother, who also learned and benefited from Marnie’s new knowledge (38:13).

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Coping, Acceptance, and Maturity

Emotional Shift and Maturity

• From Invincibility to Responsibility
  • As a teen, felt “untouchable”—“Like, bad things happen to older people...I just didn’t care.” (62:30)
  • Now recognizes the need to actively protect her health for longevity.
• Fun with Success
  • Fine-tuning management became rewarding:
    • "It was almost like winning a game, almost...look at this amazing score I’ve got today." (34:36)
• Personal Insight
  • Learned that self-compassion, knowledge, and support make the condition manageable—and life more joyful.

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NOTABLE QUOTES & MEMORABLE MOMENTS

"If I didn't test when I was high or low, it didn't count. And that was sort of my mentality with it."
— Marnie (23:53)

"I will make eye contact with someone on the bus and inject them dead in the eye."
— Marnie (67:32)

"It was almost like winning a game, almost...look at this amazing score I’ve got today."
— Marnie (34:36)

"She just looked at me and she was like, 'No, because we're both here. And why would you let that stop you living your life?'"
— Marnie, quoting her mom at her anxiety turning point (52:25)

"You just feel so untouchable when you’re young...then as you get a bit older, you realize that’s not true...You need to really look after yourself."
— Marnie (62:30)

"Worry is a Waste of Imagination."
— Scott Benner (58:08; referencing episode 156)

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TIMESTAMPS FOR IMPORTANT SEGMENTS

• 02:18 — Marnie’s diagnosis and initial symptoms
• 06:20 — Mother recognizes symptoms
• 12:04 — Realization of the emotional impact on her mother
• 21:48 — Pretending to accept diabetes, risky behavior, hiding true management
• 26:51 — Discovery of CGM as a real turning point
• 32:51 — The influence of the Juicebox Podcast and online community
• 40:27 — Stomach bug, crisis, and anxiety after difficult lows
• 47:38 — Anxiety manifesting in compulsive checking and intrusive thoughts
• 52:25 — The turnaround: a simple but powerful conversation with mom
• 62:30 — Maturation and embracing responsibility

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HUMOR & RELATABLE MOMENTS

• Reenacting lying to the doctor by making up blood sugar logs with color-coded pens (25:27).
• British/American banter over accents, measurements, and the phrase "slap bang" (31:30, 47:01).
• Winnie the Pooh–style jam-rubbing during a hypo (“I don't think I had any pants on as well when all this is happening. So it was very Winnie the Pooh.” 45:41).
• Joking about self-injection visibility: “inject them dead in the eye.” (67:32)
• Playful exchanges about aging and the pains of “sleep injuries” (63:19).

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COMMUNITY & SUPPORT

• Marnie found connection both online and in-person, appreciating encounters with other T1Ds (“spotting diabetics in the wild”) and support in the Juicebox Facebook group when preparing for trips.
• Both host and guest reflect on how compassion and empathy grow through direct experience—not just with diabetes but with life in general.

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TAKEAWAYS FOR THOSE LIVING WITH T1D (OR CARING FOR SOMEONE WHO IS)

• The transition from denial to thriving often requires self-acceptance, curiosity, and access to real, lived experience—whether through CGM, community, or educational resources.
• Even the most organized or “by-the-book” patient can struggle with shame, anxiety, or denial, especially in the face of public scrutiny or rare, helpless events like illness.
• Community—be it family, online groups, or podcasts—can be a lifeline in moments of fear or self-doubt.
• Humor and openness not only relieve personal pressure but help to build positive, understanding relationships with the condition, people, and the world at large.

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End of summary.

Transcript

[A]

Here we are, back together again, friends, for another episode of the Juice Box podcast. Marnie is 30 years old. She's had type one since she was 17. Today we're going to talk about the mental side of type 1 diabetes a little bit. We're going to talk about management. Some anxiety she had after a tough low. Marnie was embarrassed of her Type one as a teen, but today she does not feel the same way. All of that and much more. Right now, nothing you hear on the Juicebox podcast should be considered advice, medical or otherwise. Always consult a physician before making any changes to your healthcare plan. Don't forget to save 40% off of your entire [e-mail] all you have to do is use the offer code JUICEBOXECKOUT. That's Juicebox at checkout to save [e-mail] Are you an adult living with type one or the caregiver of someone who is? I'd love it if you would go to T1D exchange.org juicebox and take the survey. When you complete that survey, your answers are used to move type 1 diabetes research of all kinds. So if you'd like to help with type 1 research, t1dexchange.org juicebox when you place your first order for AG1 with my link, you'll get five free travel packs and a free year supply of vitamin D drink. AG1.com Juicebox this episode of the Juice Box podcast is sponsored by Medtronic diabetes and their MiniMed 780G system designed to help ease the burden of diabetes management. Imagine fewer worries about missed boluses or miscalculated carbs thanks to meal detection technology and automatic correction doses. Learn more and get started [e-mail] juicebox the episode you're listening to is sponsored by USMED usmed.com juicebox or call 888-721-1514. You can get your diabetes testing supplies the same way we do from usmed. You're marnie. How old are you?

[B]

I'm 29. Soon to be 30.

[A]

Okay. How old were you when you're diagnosed?

[B]

I was 17. So I've had diabetes 13 years now.

[A]

Wow, look at you. Let me move this here off my whiteboard so I can write things down.

[B]

I've made some notes. You've made notes on the screen? Yeah.

[A]

In case you don't remember stuff about yourself?

[B]

Yeah, a bit of that. And also to call the waffling. So I've got like a nice balance. So I've got. I've got some nice notes typed up.

[A]

Okay. You think you're gonna be all over the place if you don't have. Not.

[B]

I think so, yeah. Yeah, just like, you know, some bullet points. I bullet point everything, so I'm very organized.

[A]

Okay. All right, well, let's do it then. So how old were you said you were how old?

[B]

Like 17. Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah, so it was a bit. Yeah.

[A]

And do you have any other people in your family who have type one?

[B]

Yes, my mom does as well.

[A]

Do you know how old she was when she was diagnosed?

[B]

It's weird because I've just had a really panicked 20 minute phone call with her before this where I was like, I need some facts about your mom. So she was 10 when she was diagnosed. So it was the 70s when she was diagnosed.

[A]

How old is she now?

[B]

She is. Oh, sorry, Mom. 64.

[A]

64, okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Do you have other siblings?

[B]

Yeah, I do. Got two sisters as well. Yeah.

[A]

Do they have hypothyroidism?

[B]

Yes, my younger sister does. She's got thyroid issues. My older sister is absolutely fine and I'm blind as a bat. So we always joke that I really, really got like, the bad genetics in the family.

[A]

Your eyesight's not been good your whole life.

[B]

Always terrible. Not my whole life. I'd say sort of early teenage years. It really, really took off. Sort of a nosedive.

[A]

What does terrible mean? Can you see your own nose?

[B]

No, not anymore. No. Like, I'm very, very short sighted, so cannot see anything. Like, even my phone. Sort of first thing in the morning when I wake up, I have to hold it like an inch away from my nose. Really tragic. Yeah.

[A]

Do you wear contacts or like real thick glasses?

[B]

Well, yeah, I've got contacts because my glasses are an obscene amount of thickness, like proper milk bottle bottoms. So, yeah, stick to contact lenses.

[A]

What's the professor's name in Harry Potter with the really thick glasses now?

[B]

Oh, Professor Trelawney.

[A]

Trelawney, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

It's 100. That vibes when I've got my glasses. So.

[A]

Yeah, I just figured with your accent, we should just lean right into it.

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[A]

How about other. Any other medical issues for you?

[B]

No, I think me and my sister both started with a bit of Italy, which I believe is autoimmune as well. So we've both got that as well. Again, eldest sister, absolutely fine. So just. Yeah, but that's about it really, from sort of a health point of view.

[A]

Okay, so you weren't really growing up, were you? Off to university or off to a job when you were diagnosed what was happening in your life.

[B]

So it was first year of college for us. So it's the two years before you head off to your college, university. So it was the first year that sort of left high school, that is college. And yeah, it sort of happened over Christmas, really. So I was very, very, very ill in, I think it was November. I had horrendous flu. Like, didn't I like to pride myself. And I don't really get ill that often. And I remember it just absolutely wiped me out. Like, couldn't get out of bed, I was so ill. And then that's when the fun diabetes symptoms started slinking up and appearing. So I had a feeling, deep, deep down, I think I knew it was diabetes. But I put it off for a very long time, sort of telling anyone that I thought it was. So it was classic weight loss. And it was over Christmas and I was eating like a little pig and I was like, oh, look at all this weight falling off me. This is amazing. Like, to all my friends and, like, jealous, but. And then it kind of got to the point where it was end of Christmas and my mom, like, I've just spoken to her and she said she just remembers me getting up in the night, go to the toilet, and obviously her being diabetic as well. She thought of. She saw four, four nights, consecutive nights, me getting up in the night and waking them up, going to the toilet. And she sort of called me and was like, look, I don't want it to be this, but I think we need to do a blood meter test on you. And the thing is, ever since I was a child, we'd always sort of be like, oh, let's all test our blood sugars with mum's testing care and we take it in turns. And I hated it. Like, I'd run away screaming, crying. My sisters loved it. They chased me with it and I just would not cooperate. I hated that game where we'd all test our blood sugars and I never took part in it. And my mum just told me I literally took home my stepdad, like, almost like pinning me down to do a blood test, finger on me at the age of 70. So she said eventually it was just me hyperventilating, laughing, crying, hysterical, and just trying to get a bit of blood out my finger to do the test. So she said she did the test and I think it was 28, which is 504 on the conversion. Yeah. So she was just like, yeah, okay, it's Happened you're diabetic as well. So got me into the doctors first thing the next day with an urgent appointment. I think they tested me in the morning And I was 32, which I think is about 570. So straight away it was like, yeah, your mom's got diabetes, you've got diabetes, let's get you to the hospital. And I think, I think I was sent to the hospital and I wasn't on a drip or anything. And my mom, my mom says they didn't say I was in dka, but I must have had crazy high blood sugars for a couple of months at this point. But I think it was just the thing of, oh, your mum's got diabetes, let's give you a shot of insulin, get you on your way. Bye. So, yeah, yeah. And I don't remember having my mum said the same, no sort of iv, nothing. I just remember sitting at the hospital all day while they sort of gave me a shot of long acting, gave me a bit of fast acting. And about tea time, like dinner time, they're like, right, well, your mum's diabetic, so she knows what to do on your way. So just sent me home then.

[A]

Did your mom know what to do? Like, was she?

[B]

Yes and no, because obviously they didn't. Didn't have my, like, ratios nailed, didn't know how much long accent to give me. So I think it was just a bit of a wild guess. And I remember sort of sitting in my mum's car afterwards and I had this massive sandwich on my knee and I was absolutely starving because I hadn't eaten all day. I was about to take this massive bite and everyone's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, you need an insulin for that now. And I was like, what? What? I have to wait to eat this sandwich. So, yeah, I think it was a bit of, like, just sort of hand me back off to my mum and be like, oh, she's the expert, off you go, we'll see you tomorrow, it's fine. So, yeah, I remember that sort of first night and she kept coming into my room, like every other hour, checking my blood sugars, bless her, like, just kept. Kept sort of slinking in and turning on my little nightlight and checking me. Even though 17, I could fully have done it myself, but I know that she just. Just worried, wanted to do the best.

[A]

Yeah, geez. When you think back on that time, did your mom and you have conversations about diabetes ever? Did you talk about it personally or did you talk about it more like a caregiver to a child. You've probably heard me talk about US Med and how simple it is to reorder with US Med using their email system. But did you know that if you don't see the email and you're set up for this, you have to set it up. They don't just randomly call you. But I'm set up to be called if I don't respond to the email because I don't trust myself 100%. So one time I didn't respond to the email and the phone rings at the house, it's like, ring. You know how it works? And I picked it up, I was like, hello. And it was just. The recording was like, US Med doesn't actually sound like that, but you know what I'm saying? It said, hey, you're. I don't remember exactly what it says, but it's basically like, hey, your order's ready. You want us to send it? Push this button if you want us to send it. Or if you'd like to wait, I think it lets you put it off like a couple of weeks or push this button for that. That's pretty much it. I push the button to send it and a few days later, box right at my door. That's it. Usmed.com juicebox or call 888-721-1514. Get your free benefits checked now and get started with US Med Dexcom Omnipod Tandem Freestyle. They've got all your favorites, even that new islet pump. Check them out [e-mail] juicebox or by calling 888-721-1514. There are links in the show, notes of your podcast player and [e-mail] to us Med and all of the sponsors. Today's episode is sponsored by Medtronic Diabetes, who is making life with diabetes easier with the mini Med 780G system. The mini Med 780G automated insulin delivery system anticipates, adjusts and corrects every five minutes. Real world results show people achieving up to 80% time and range with recommended settings without increasing lows. But of course, individual results may vary. The 780G works around the clock so you can focus on what matters. Have you heard about Medtronic's extended Infusion set? It's the first and only infusion set labeled for up to a seven day wear. This feature is repeatedly asked for and Medtronic has delivered. 97% of people using the 780G reported that they could manage their diabetes without Major disruptions of sleep. They felt more free to eat what they wanted and they felt less stress with fewer alarms and alerts. You can't beat that. Learn more about how you can spend less time and effort managing your diabetes by visiting medtronicdiabetes.com juicebox kind of, yeah, we didn't really.

[B]

I remember like when we got back from the hospital and I'm sort of texting my friends and I don't think I really like obviously saw my mum giving herself shots throughout my entire life. But you know, you just don't realize how big a part of someone's life something is. And I think when I got home I was texting my friends like, oh, haha, I've got type 1 diabetes. We've been joking about it for ages. And I just thought it's injections and what, like that's all it's going to be. And I just remember sort of going to sleep that night and I've spoke to mum about this since and I just remember hearing her just sobbing downstairs and I think in that moment I was like, oh my God, this, like she's that upset over something. Maybe this is a big thing for me. Like this is going to change my life. Like we never really spoke about that since and at the time also I was too young to sort of register what she was going through as well as me because it wasn't just about me really. It was just obviously it was just a big thing for her as well. And I know she was guilty and she said that's me sins but I mean it's like nothing anyone could control. So yeah, sure it was one of those where it was, yeah, a big, a big sort of shock to her because we've spoken as well and she sort of said she didn't know it was genetic, she didn't know it was sort of something that could be sort of passed on. So it was never something she considered any of us could get really.

[A]

Can I ask, you have as an adult and since this. Do you find yourself being more compassionate for people? Like, do you know what I mean? Like, because like, you know how you, like you see this with your mom and you don't realize what she's like, what her life is, but you're living with her. Like, do you ever think like, oh, I took for granted what was happening to her and, and does that like spread out to how you, how you feel about other people?

[B]

I think so. Because just getting that sort of viewpoint of oh my God, like I remember she'd have like lows and stuff and it was just like, oh, just what happens to mum? And then since that off the back of it and experiencing the low and experience the highs and I just, Yeah, I can look back now and think I really. None of us really ask the questions or appreciated what she kind of went through to deal with it and have three kids at the same time and work and. Yeah, so I do. I mean, I've always been a bit of an empath anyway, like, and I don't. And maybe it did start from there because I can sort of think back to that time and I do think it. Yeah, I do kind of take people's sort of experiences, emotions and I hold them quite in high regard really, when I am dealing with people. So.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It could very well sort of add a knock on effect to how I am now.

[A]

Yeah. I'll tell you why I asked, because doing this, like making this podcast and actually having like a big Facebook group, having that big Facebook group and making the podcast has made me listen. I don't think I'm famous, Marnie. I don't. Okay.

[B]

But I think you are.

[A]

Well, that's ridiculous. But people know. But a lot of people know who I am, Right. And I speak out loud and those people then look at those things and make decisions about how I feel. They don't know me, you know, they make decisions about what I'm thinking and it's led me, like, even, I don't know, like, you see a famous person and people are coming down on them or a politician or anybody, and they're like, this is what they're doing. I'm like, you have no idea. You don't know. And this is your assumption based on a tiny bit of information.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

I mean, you can, like, I'm not saying you can't have your opinion. Like, maybe you just don't like me, that's fine. Or maybe you look at a certain person out in the public eye and say they seem to be a bad actor, they don't really want things to be calm or what. I mean, whatever it is, there's certainly you could make good decisions about people, but yeah, making snap decisions based on something you see on Facebook or in a newspaper or something like that. Like, I don't do that anymore. Like, I just assume that I don't know enough to have a reasonable opinion.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. It's like you need the full contest context, don't you, really? About who someone is. And you'll never know that if you, if it is someone through Facebook, you're never going to know everything about them or the context of who they are.

[A]

So it's hard enough to know when you live with somebody, their full context, you know?

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's not helping me out.

[A]

Yeah, no, but. But, you know, for, like, even when there are people who are, like, I think, kind of, like, viciously, like, speaking against me, I always still think, like, I don't know, like, maybe they saw something that really makes them think that they're the. The good guy in this story. You know what I mean?

[B]

Yeah. I never. I never understand that about people because I did see Facebook post before that. You did? Well, it's this evening for me, about. Yeah.

[A]

Did you.

[B]

Yeah, I saw that. I liked it.

[A]

Oh, thank you. No, I mean, it's in my head today because, you know, a person who has been methodically posting me and, you know, wherever they can for years suddenly just showed up in my Facebook group acting nice, and I was like, what in the hell just happened?

[B]

Like, yeah, it baffles me.

[A]

What threw me for a loop, you know, to use as an example. Like, I have my assumption about what happened, but I don't know if I'm right or not. Like, I actually think that it's possible that they just kind of like, you know, you can get into a group by answering the questions correctly, and I don't see who comes in. So they get in, and here's my worst version of what happened. They snuck into the group to. To, like, snoop. And then in the middle of the night, a post came up, and they got confused and didn't realize what group it was in, and they started responding to it, and now I see that they're. That they're there, and they probably didn't want me to know, but if you give a more generous. Like, maybe they just thought, you know, I keep saying stuff about this guy. Maybe I'm not right. I should go look. And maybe they were just there, and maybe they were about to send me a beautiful note that's like, hey, you know, I've said some shit about you in the past, but, like, I see what you're doing here, you know, I don't know. But the point is, is I don't know.

[B]

So I just find it all very confused. And I just think it's one of those things where it's just the Internet and social media has made it so easy for people to be so horrible to each other just because it's behind the keyboard and it's not in real Life and yeah, I just, I don't.

[A]

Know, I've seen it in families too. They see people are.

[B]

Oh yeah, yeah.

[A]

Seems like it's easy for people no matter where they are, in fairness. What it really made me wonder like this, having this be a thing I'm like back room going through today and I'm not going through it, I'm fine by the way. But good. Yeah, it made me wonder like, oh, I wonder if you were old enough to like look and go, oh God, we didn't realize this about mom then. You have this personal experience and if it actually informs your real life or not. That's what I was wondering.

[B]

Oh yeah, yeah. 100. Yeah. Like it's just obviously we'd come to eat, she'd get out needles, she'd have a cheeky shot and then we'd ollie and apart from sort of seen a go low, that was. That was the only thing I knew about it. Mum has to inject at meals and sometimes she goes lower. She needs leuko said and that's it. That was all sort of the information we ever took on or even asked about. We didn't even ask about it to be fair. It's only when it was like finger pricking time and we all wanted to mess about that we'd actually ask things about it. I don't remember ever sort of sitting down having a frank conversation with her just apart from like, oh, when did you get diagnosed? Or what was that like back when you were a kid. But I think that was as far as it went really.

[A]

Yeah, no, I hear you. So do you head off to school soon after this?

[B]

I think I did to be fair. I think I was back in the hospital the day after my initial diagnosis.

[A]

Again I think how did that happen?

[B]

I think it was too, because they just sent me off insulin pens like meh, here's the sort of guesstimate. Bye, come back tomorrow and we'll actually sort you out. So yeah, so got sent home and then went back the next day to sort of actually nail in some carb ratios and how much longer acting to take those back in sort of the day after. And then I think I was back in school quite quickly to be fair. And again I think it was the whole thing of my mum's got diabetes. So it was a bit like, well this, this isn't going to hold you back. You can do everything you needed to do. So I do think I was home for a couple of days and then went back to school maybe the following week. I Just remember the first sort of. Because I had to get the bus to get to school and it was my first time being on my own since diagnosis. And I remember just thought I was being stood on the bus and sort of I felt a bit dizzy or like I stumbled a bit when I got on the bus and I was like, oh my gosh, is this, is this low blood sugar? Should I check? Am I going high? And I remember just doing about eight finger prick checks on this sort of 20 minute bus ride because I just got so in my head about like, oh my gosh, I'm going low, am I going high? Am I going to make it to college? I'm not, I'm going to die on route. I don't know what's happening. So I just remember sort of this panic was sort of a big factor when I was going back, but that subsided quite quickly as well. I just thought of, I think from what I remember, I think I slid into quite a good routine with it. Quite not good because my control was horrendous. But I sort of accepted it. Well, I thought I'd accepted it quite quickly.

[A]

You just said something and then disagreed with yourself three times in a row.

[B]

The only reason I've said that was because I convinced myself I'd accepted it. And it's only recently that I've actually accepted it.

[A]

So what did pretending to accept it look like?

[B]

Pretending to accept it was, I'll do my insulin, I'll do long acting twice a day, do all the meal, insulin, I'll put my finger, and that's, that's fine. But I didn't look after myself. So it was like I was meeting the bare minimum criteria to just keep myself ticking over and I was still going out, drinking loads, like doing all sorts.

[A]

That's the first time I didn't understand. It's the first time I didn't understand you. Doing what?

[B]

Drinking and other things. Like when you go to a party and stuff.

[A]

Other things like drugs.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Okay, go ahead.

[B]

Yeah, I didn't want to be too specific, so I just thought I'll categorize it as other things one might do at a party.

[A]

Yeah, well, I, I honestly wasn't sure if you meant drugs or sex. That's what I was wondering about.

[B]

I mean.

[A]

Now'S a nice time to say hi to your mom in case she's listening.

[B]

I know. Sorry, Mom. I think you knew anyway, so it's fine. So. Yeah, so I did. Yeah. It just wasn't like it'd be things like it was basically me. It was like, I've heard other people say that's like looking after a little Tamagotchi. And as long as I just kind of maintained it a bit to the point where I wasn't really ill, that I was fine with that. So they'd go out drinking and I'd probably do a test before I headed out. And throughout the night I'd be like, oh, my mouth's really dry. Oh, I've been chugging loads of tap water. And then I thought of just rage shoe a load of insulin because I knew I was really, really high and I'd come back down then by the time I did a test at like early hours in the morning, but a beautiful, like beautiful sort of number so I could sort of convince myself that if I didn't test when I was high or low, it didn't count. And that was sort of my mentality with it. Like if I flip through my blood meter and I see all these great numbers, like, granted there were bizarre times of the day to me. I was like, oh, those numbers are perfect. Like, don't worry about the in between things I'm experiencing because my blood meter says it's all great and I'm doing really well.

[A]

Would you purposefully test when you knew your blood sugar was good so you'd see a good number?

[B]

Yeah, oh, yeah. Because it almost gave me that good feeling of, all right, I might have been high before, but look how great my number is now. Like, this is amazing. And same with start going to the hospital for my checkups that go. I think I went every six months when I started in adolescent clinic and they made you write down a log of numbers. And I remember just I'd be sat on the bus on the way there and just make up numbers. I look for my blood me because it always has to check. I check that I had good numbers in there and then just fill in the gaps and I'd write really great numbers. I'd throw in the odd high number. So didn't get too suspicious here.

[A]

You were fantastic. And oh, oh, well, you missed a little. And a better number just all to make it feel like it might be real.

[B]

Yeah, exactly, because I needed it.

[A]

Question though, at the end, doesn't the A1C reflect that that's not the case.

[B]

Because of sort of the. I just cheap load of insulin to sort of bring myself down. I did have quite a few not bad laws but lows throughout the day when that be sort of on that roller coaster. So I think the roller coaster helped make my A1C not look too. I think I was sort of in the. I want to say late sevens, early sort of eight numbers when I was sort of around that time. So it didn't look horrendous to them. They were happy. They were sort of like, yeah, your A1C looks fine. Off you go.

[A]

How far did you go? Did you use different color pens? I've heard people. Did you do that?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I had. Yeah, I did. I had like. Like, I'd have like a running out bibo. I'd have like a gel pen and I'd have like a fountain pen and I'd always switch it up so it didn't look really suspicious. I'd be like, I'll do a couple of days in that blue Biro. I'll do one day in black. So I could like, oh, yeah, just first pen I grabbed. Yeah. No, there's a lot of strategic sneaky planning going on. When back in those days, did you.

[A]

Ever feel like, I'm putting so much effort into pretending to do a good job, maybe, maybe I could actually just do a good job?

[B]

No, because at the same time I can. Like now looking back and everything I've learned from you and online, on Instagram and the Facebook posts, I'm like, I just. I knew nothing back then. Like, I didn't know anything. Like, if I had a higher, low number, I'd always be like, shrug. It is what it is. That's just diabetes. It's fine. Like, I don't know what I've done wrong, whatever. So I just had. I just didn't have the attitude to want to sit down and find out what was going wrong or how I could be better. And again, I think it was sort of the outwardly look like it accepted it, but always in denial about it before I actually got control. And I did then accept it properly.

[A]

Yeah. What made that happen, do you know?

[B]

I think firstly was getting a cgm. So I got one. I think it was like second year after sort of COVID lockdowns. I think it was 2021.

[A]

Well, that's pretty recently.

[B]

Yeah, it was, to be fair. And I was quite late getting it because I think I can't remember if my mum got one before me or not. And, yeah, because my mum lives sort of in a different borough and when you're in different boroughs, the hospitals can have completely different sort of funding to have these things in place. So I think where she lives, she got a Dexcom. I was on a Libra I think she's on the Libra. And then she was sort of showing me and I was like, that's amazing. I'm going to get in touch with my consultant. So I did. I ended up getting the Libra, which I've had since. I think it was just the ability to not be able to ignore things like I was doing before. So I'd see these sort of highs in between meals are sort of going high overnight. Then I'd come back in range before the morning and I just thought, oh my God, like, is this what he's doing in between these four times a day finger pricks, I'm doing right. And I think it was just the knowledge of that's not right, it shouldn't be this way, and I can do so much better. But I think that sort of got the ball rolling really. And then I saw. And then that was the time where you couldn't go out, you couldn't do anything. So I just was doom scrolling on social media for hours. And I remember seeing a girl, random girl that I follow who's diabetic, she'd post about your podcast. And I'd never listened to podcasts before, ever. And I thought, well, I've got all this spare time and I like walking and running a lot. So I was like, I'll just get into it and start listening. And I was, I was hooked from episode. And I've been, I've been listening to your podcast chronologically. So I'm on, I'm on episode. I think it's like 650 at the minute, so I refuse to do it out of order. So I've started episode one and I'm working my way through it in numerical order.

[A]

How long have you been at that?

[B]

I think 20, 21.

[A]

You're only halfway through. I know, but they're gonna cure diabetes before you finish.

[B]

Well, I feel like, you know, when I see posts on your Facebook group, I'm like, whoa, spoilers. I'm not there yet. There's like advancements in medicine and things like that. I'm like, whoa, whoa, I'm not at that bit yet.

[A]

Oh, that's so funny. You're like, hey, hey, I'm not gonna be there for like three years.

[B]

You can't tell me, yeah, post. I'm not there yet.

[A]

That's so funny. Well, first of all, thank you. I appreciate you listening like this. So wait, this person you saw online, how did they motivate you again?

[B]

He literally just shared about your podcast. Oh. And it was. I Think it was really randomly, just some, some girl that went to university with my sister. My sister was like, I'll give her a follow. She posts about diabetes sometimes. I was like, oh, we'll do it. And I think she just shared like just a link to your podcast. And I was like, oh, I'll check that out. I'll have a look.

[A]

If you said you're not a podcast person. Right, so just meaning you weren't listening to podcasts, did you know you weren't doing well? Like, what were you looking for? Were you look like, why would you go listen?

[B]

I guess I think I just wanted answers. So like something had happened. So I thought, I've had my breakfast. I can't count everything so precisely. And then I'd have my insulin. And then I'd be like, I've nailed this. I can't wait for this beautiful wine after breakfast that's going to carry me through to lunch. And then my blood sugars would just shoot up or drop. And I'd be like, I just can't understand what I'm doing wrong. And I wasn't getting answers from sort of the hospital or anything because it's very sort of cut and dry. Stick to your carb ratios. Done. There is sort of opportunity to do week long courses here called Daphne. I don't know what it stands for.

[A]

I know, yeah, people bring up Daphne. By the way, you're in England, right?

[B]

Yes. Yeah.

[A]

Why does your accent feel. I hope this isn't insulting. Why does it feel a little Scottish once in a while?

[B]

Oh, really? You know what, I was just in America last week and so many people said I sounded Irish.

[A]

Yeah, okay.

[B]

Yeah, a bit of a Celtic twang. I don't know, I think I'm very northern. It might be that maybe.

[A]

Yeah, I just, my brother in law is from Scotland. And like when you just said I don't know. When you just say I don't know again. Oh, no, you did it differently that time.

[B]

Yeah. Because you put me on the spot. That's why I'm trying to be posh now.

[A]

You're like, oh, wait a second, a little too Adele. A little more.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I just wasn't sure if you were like near a border or like something.

[B]

Like that, but oh no, I'm like slap bang near Manchester.

[A]

Well, slap bang is probably what I'm gonna call the episode. But.

[B]

I've been thinking that. I've been trying not to say anything too silly in case you're like, right, there's the title.

[A]

Fags die on route was in my head. Because you're like, I didn't want to die on route. Like, talking about being on the bus. And I'm like, that sounds too harsh.

[B]

Yeah, that's a bit more. But that one is.

[A]

But slap bang seems very. Like people would be like, oh, what is this going to be about?

[B]

And then it's going to be thrilling. It's just me waffling.

[A]

Well, you said before we started, you're like, you know, I'm going to waffle about. You said. And I said, ironically, I just had a waffle. And I think you thought I meant I was just off, like, speaking, like, weirdly and back and forth.

[B]

I did, yeah.

[A]

Yeah. But I had literally just eaten a waffle.

[B]

I did not. Yeah, that went right over my head.

[A]

My son and his girlfriend are here today. It's a holiday here today. They were like, we'll make breakfast. And I came downstairs right before we recorded, and they're like, wait, we made waffles? And I was like, okay. Then I came upstairs, and five seconds later, you're just saying waffle over and over again.

[B]

I was like, oh, no. Yeah, I did think you meant talking to me.

[A]

I thought somebody was watching me.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, no. Well, I hope you enjoyed your waffle. Anyway.

[A]

Okay, so you saw someone online. You decided to try a podcast. It's great. And you were having trouble, like, you said, you were making boluses, then just thinking, like, here it comes, my perfect blood. But it just wasn't happening. So what did you figure out?

[B]

No, it was just as a. As I listened more and more, it was things like, you know, like, consider fat and protein and exercise and just everything you speak on, really, on the podcast, that is a variable. And I just had never been taught that. And I started sort of listening more and more and experimenting and messing about my doses and just sort of slowly, I'd start seeing those beautiful smooth lines that I'd always wanted. Or I could sort of take insulin and just be so 100% confident on where I'd be sat three, four hours later or overnight. Like, my overnights were ridiculous. Like, I could be getting a screaming high alarm at like 2 in the morning or low all night. And I just could not figure out life of me. So as I was listening, sort of putting things into practice, I was like, oh, my God. Like, it can be doable. It is doable because I kind of just accepted, like, oh, this is just how it's going to be for the rest of my life. Like, I think off the Back of that as well. I'd. I'd have my eyes screened and I'd started getting background retinopathy in one of my eyes and that just absolutely terrified me because me, up until that point, I was untouchable and everything I was doing was enough to just keep me ticking over. It was sort of that. And I just thought, oh, my God, I need to look after myself. Because that was. I'd say that was two years ago and that's only 11 years having diabetes and I'm already sort of getting things going wrong. So I just thought I need to get my together, basically.

[A]

I have a bunch of questions around this, but what it feel like when you started getting results that you expected? Was it fun? Almost, yeah.

[B]

It was almost like. Like winning a game, almost. I was like, oh, my God, yes. And I'd see a great number and it's like I'm just winning at playing the game of diabetes. Like, I was like, oh, look at this amazing score I've got today.

[A]

So then the question is, is what did it feel like when it was going wrong?

[B]

Just. Just like I would always. I'd be very harsh on myself when it was going wrong and I'd always be like, you didn't need that extra piece of toast at breakfast that you didn't bolus long enough for? And I was very sort of. I think it was just relearning things that I just need to focus more on and not ignore. Like, just. I'd always sort of be told, like, if you're going to go off and exercise, be a bit higher. And listening to you and learning things, I realized that it doesn't have to be that way. I can have a beautiful smooth line and do exercise and eat a massive carby breakfast. It doesn't have to be sort of one or the other.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, that's wonderful. I guess you never really knew about your mom's management, right? She didn't share it with you? You didn't share yours with her?

[B]

Not so much, no. Obviously she had. She had a sort of a big part in helping me dose for things initially. Thing is, when I got diagnosed, I was giving. I was put on pens straight away and my mum was still on pig insulin, so she'd have to mix up two vials herself and a syringe.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah, yeah. So that. That was 13 years ago and I think again.

[A]

Wait, wait, 13 years ago, I got to stop you. 13 years ago, your mom was still using beef and pork insulin?

[B]

Yes, she was, yeah. Yeah. She'd have the two vials that she had to mix up.

[A]

What the heck?

[B]

I know. And again, I think because she'd seen me go softball and get these pens, she'd gone straight back to her consultant, had been like, where are my pens?

[A]

Yeah. How come no one mentioned this? Right, yeah.

[B]

Nothing from her point of view. Seeing what I was getting and the glucose meters I was getting in the pens. She then went back and got put on pens as well. Straight. I think it was straight away. It might have been a bit of a wait for her, but. Yeah. So she sort of off the back of that, got something else out of it as well. With me being diagnosed.

[A]

I've never heard anybody using it that recently.

[B]

Really? Yeah. She was literally using it. Even thought past my diagnosis until she got sorted out of tens.

[A]

Well, I mean, if 13 years ago is. Is 2010. Is that right?

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And your mom was diagnosed in the 70s.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Did they forget about her or was she. Were they. Was she not going to a doc? Maybe she was going to a time machine to go to her doctor. Not a car.

[B]

I'm not sure. I think. I don't know whether it was. Maybe she was just comfortable. Again, this is something I've not spoke to her about. Maybe she was just comfortable with doing it, but then saw how easy it was, you know, just having pens and screwing.

[A]

How was she even getting it? Like, that's. Are you sure about this?

[B]

Yeah. 100 watch people absolutely telling lies, though. You'll be like, I've never did that. No. She was 100 on bile insulin with the. Yeah. Hawkins.

[A]

Was it regular and mph? Maybe?

[B]

Oh, I don't know. No. I always remember saying it was Parkinson that she was on.

[A]

Let me say this. Even if it was regular and MPH, still 13 years ago, what the hell? Right?

[B]

Right. Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Oh, that's. Goodness. So she sees you, she's like, hey, apparently there's better stuff nobody told me about.

[B]

I think so, yeah. Oh, that looks. That looks a lot easier than shaking up some vials and stuff.

[A]

Is it possible she got in one of those Harry Potter cars, went back in time, and that's when she went to the doctor? Because you do have the steering wheel on the wrong side, so.

[B]

We do, Yeah.

[A]

I don't know how they were.

[B]

I don't know. It's possible, but, yeah, she was. Yeah. But she got on pens quite quickly, I think, after. Okay, see me get pens. Yeah.

[A]

Okay. All right.

[B]

All sorted out in the end, then.

[A]

Okay, now fast forward to a couple of years ago.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you're like, suddenly, like putting it insulin, like, watch this. Watch me. Not spike. Watch me go walk without getting alone. Do you go tell her?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, we. Yeah. To be fair, we've had a few conversations in purely as I would like. I just wouldn't bring you up before because I knew I was doing badly and I didn't want questions get turned back round to me and be like, how are you doing? And I'd have to go look at my amazing blood sugar log. That's all fiction. So just one of those where I just thought, if we don't. If I don't bring it up, no one's gonna ask me too much about it. So off the back of that, since we have sort of. I did sort of say, oh, I've started listening to this and have you ever thought about what you're eating and, like, how things are digested and fat and protein and all this? And she was like, oh, my gosh. Yeah. But she's. I think she sort of started doing her own research as well. So she's sort of very susceptible to. She walks a lot. Like, she does a lot of exercise. And because she exercises so much, she does have quite a few sort of like, low blood sugar sort of experiences.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think she has asked. We're both mdi, and she sort of gone and asked about a pump because then she can sort of microdose herself with basil or shut it off when she's walking at the minute, she's just. Yeah. But again, it's kind of one of those where over here it's. I think she got. You need really good control to get a pump, which is what she was told.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But then her argument is, but I want a pump to get the really good control. Because at the minute it's just a lot of hypos of exercise and things like that. So it's just one of those where you've really got to justify asking for a pump. And there's always a lot of pushback on it, really. But, yeah, we've. We've had conversations since about sort of, how's it going? Or this is what I've started doing. Have you considered this as well? So, yeah, we talk more about it now. Definitely.

[A]

Very nice. Your note says that you wanted to talk about, like, anxiety and having panic attacks, being afraid of being judged. Can I hear about that?

[B]

Yes. So, yeah, so 2023 was the year of the panic attack for me.

[A]

Big year. Is that on the Chinese calendar I'm not aware of?

[B]

Oh, God, definitely. Not basically. So just for a bit context, I have never had a stomach bug since I got diagnosed, which is bizarre because I used to work in a primary school and in the office, so any sickly child got sent my way. And I've been thrown up on a million times. If I had a pound for every time I've been thrown up on, I'd be a millionaire. Yeah. And I just never had experienced a stomach bug ever. And it was my. It was sort of a first birthday party and we went and everyone got deadly, deadly sick off the back of it. Like, really bad vomiting bug. And I remember sort of getting up the day after the party and I was like, oh, Jesus, I can't get my blood sugars up at all. And I was just eating and eating, went out for a nice breakfast and I was like, I'm gonna be really conservative with my insulin with this. Because I just. Maybe it was just all like drinking the night before at this party. And I was like, I'll just be conservative, I won't do too much. I just remember all day we're driving back home and I was like, oh, I just feel a bit. Feel that rough now and my blood sugars are still tanking. And then got back home. Second my mum dropped me off. I was like, like the floodgates opened. I was just violently unwell. But as I was, I was like, my boyfriend was home and I was like, oh, my God. Like, I'm actually getting really worried now because I was just chugging juice after juice. And this is the thing, I hadn't got this bit on your podcast yet, so I didn't know about. So I was like, I got that part yet. So I was just like, oh, my God. Like, I think. I think we might need to go to hospital because I'm starting to panic a bit now. So I went to hospital, which was an absolute waste of time. So I had been. Oh, gosh, I think I drank about five juice boxes at this point and then proceeded to throw them all up. And I was getting a bit worried and I tried calling the. We've got like a non emergency number over here. So instead of calling like 999, you call a different number and they put you through sort of non emergency, but you still get to speak to someone straight away. And I was kind of like, can I have glucagon for this? Because I think I had heard inklings about microdosing glucagon, but they were just like, nope, no, you can't. You only do it if you're unconscious, we can get you an ambulance but it'll take about four hours. So I was like, oh my gosh. So my boyfriend ends up driving me to local emergency department and I got seen and they just gave me a handful of anti sickness pills and sent me on my way. I think I was borderline DKA when I went in because I remember just driving home my boyfriend, I could not keep my eyes open. Like I just felt drained. Like my boyfriend was like, your eyes were literally like rolling into the back of your head. You were that lethargic. So went home, managed to get myself sorted out. My mum, bless her, she then got hit with the same sickness bug the same evening and she was admitted to hospital for two days on drip and sort of, when I speak to her a couple days later I was like, I think I should have been admitted as well rather than just sent away.

[A]

They gave me a handful of pills and shooed me away.

[B]

Yeah. So thankfully I wasn't sick again after I went to A E. And when she sort of picked, I think she was like, oh, you're 4.1, which I think is like 75 for you guys. She was like, no, you're fine, Bye. Here's your anti sickness pills. Enjoy. So that happened and took me a bit of time to feel right again and I was like, all right, that's behind me now. That was grim. But we're back on track again. And then I went to another first birthday party in September and I was it November and the exact same thing happened again. So I'd never had a sickness bug ever. And then two in one year and this time I was a bit more prepared and I was like, I'm going to. Oh gosh, it was horrible. I didn't have anything. I had a pot of jam and I was just rubbing it into my gums in between being sick. But it worked like a charm. And I made sure to keep drinking water when could sip in and I knew that I needed to have insulin on top of that. So this time managed to stay away from the hospital. Felt a bit more prepared, so managed to get through that as well. And I was, I was less panicky that time. So I was like, right, okay, surely this can't happen again anytime soon. So went through all that last year and then I started, the anxiety started creeping in. So if I'd had a beautiful day of blood sugars that were trending low but not, not sort of going hypo right, I'd start having this thought at the back of my Mind, like, it's gonna happen again. You're going low because you're going to be sick again later. And it's not the beans thick that were scaring me. It was just how helpless I felt in both those instances.

[A]

So just sitting there with your Winnie the Poo jar, rubbing your gums. Yeah. Trying not to. Try not to get too low.

[B]

Literally. I don't think I had any pants on as well when all this is happening. So it was very Winnie the Pooh.

[A]

I mean, you said jar of. You said jam. I wish you would have said honey, but nevertheless, I know.

[B]

Oh, no, I did. I did have honey sachets as well. Just sort of. Yeah. So, yeah, it works.

[A]

Before we dive into your anxiety about, like, oh, my God, I'm gonna get sick. I'm gonna get low. Yeah, I have. Like, I'm gonna forget to say this. So a while ago, you said, if I had a pound for every time a kid vomit on me, I'd be a millionaire. I thought, how come you measure a pound? But then you go to million. Like, why, like, shouldn't you. And then I did the math.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Shouldn't you say, if I had a pound for every time you get vomited on me, I'd have 446 imperial tons?

[B]

Oh, I say, yeah, no, sorry, no.

[A]

But I mean, why does. Do you see what I'm gasking 100?

[B]

I think it's just. It's the waffle thing over again, isn't it?

[A]

But the term for a million dollars in, like, British, like, parlance is a million dollars.

[B]

Oh, I see. Yeah. No, we. Yeah, I could have called it quids instead. That would have been even more confusing.

[A]

No, I would have. That would have made me think of Quidditch, and then that would have taken us down a whole horrible road. But it's interesting that it's like a pound is like, I know a pound is money for you, but it's a weight here. And then you go. And then when you go to a million, you go to. Anyway.

[B]

Yeah. Like, yeah, the math ain't math. Yeah.

[A]

This don't make sense is what I'm saying.

[B]

I'd be very rich. I should have said.

[A]

I just wish you would have said I'd have 446 imperial tons.

[B]

Yeah. Imagine you'd have to do the reverse math. So I feel like that'll be more confused.

[A]

I had to ask Chatgpt. I was like, hey, figure this out real quick because I wanted to keep listening to your story. I didn't want to be the one doing the math.

[B]

Oh, no. Yeah. Just. I'd be very rich.

[A]

So even if you had like a great day.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You started to go back to that place of like, I'm gonna get sick. My blood sugar is going to be low. I'd be sitting around helpless. Now you're back on the bus again.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. And. And it was like, it happened every now and then. And then I'd do this thing where I'd be like, I'll just quickly drink half a juice just to check. Just to check that things are digesting as they should be. And I'm not going to go high and I'm not going to go low and be sick. So I got into this really bad pattern of I'd have really nice grass and I just couldn't rationalize in my head that I. I'd put in the work to have the nice grass because this anxiety was just clouding everything. So I knew that I'd dose for breakfast perfectly and factored in protein and all that stuff. But the anxious thoughts were going, no, you didn't. You don't know that. You. You go in low because you're going to be sick again. You're going to be in that helpless position again where you need help and you're in that horrible place that it started sort of stacking up and it just got worse and worse. And I was at work when I had my first panic attack. And again, I'd had a day where I'd had a new. I tried a new breakfast. I didn't have any sort of nutritional information about it. So I guesstimated and I've nailed it. But I then was doubting the fact that I didn't have nutritional information. I was like, how can you have nailed it? Like you've completely guessed and you've got it right. No, you haven't got it right. You're going to be sick later because you've got low, like, low blood sugars now.

[A]

Were you having compulsive thoughts about anything else?

[B]

No. No. That's. Yeah. It's just not in my nature. Yeah. It surely this. I just got so fixated on it and to the point where then I was in work and I'd had this breakfast and I was drinking a juice and I thought, that juice will sort me out. I'll have done my testing where I'm like, drink the whole juice, even though you know it's going to send you high. And it didn't. So then again, things I was building, I was like, oh, My gosh, you thought that was going to happen, but the low blood sugar is still that and they weren't even really low. They were just sort of nicely sort of tickling my low alert.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then I went and had lunch and again a lunch had not had before, no nutritional information and I ate that. And the same thing happened again where I just sort of guessed and I'd guessed very well but my brain was saying, you've not, you've not nailed it. This is the low blood sugars because you're going to be sick later. And I remember just sort of being sat my desk and I thought, oh my God, like breathe. The rooms closing in and I just ran off to the toilet, just had a full on sort of meltdown. Ended up having to sort of bring my manager and be like, I need to go home basically. I just need to be somewhere safe. Like not because I live sort of an hour's drive away from work and all I could think of was I just need to get home and be somewhere where someone can keep an eye on me, someone knows what's going on. Like my boyfriend was at home and it was just like. So that was the first time it happened. And then I had another time where my boyfriend was on holiday and I started sort of getting anxious the week before I was going like, you're going to be all on your own if it happens. If you, if you get a stomach bug and you low, no one's there to help you. And I just got so anxious to the point where it, it got on his plane and gone. And I just couldn't eat because my stomach was in knots. I was just checking my blood sugars all the time. I was just thinking, oh, who's most likely to pick up the phone at 2 in the morning if, if I do start being sick and I need help and I need driving somewhere and it just became this horrible like overshadowing thing in my life that just.

[A]

Yeah, thoughts you couldn't stop having. So I want to ask you how you got rid of them, if. Or if you did. But first I want to point out that you've said in the nicest way, like the dirtiest double entendre thing that anyone's ever said on the podcast. You said tickling my low alerts.

[B]

Oh, no, I know I didn't say it before. I could have thought of a better one.

[A]

I just thought, oh, I thought it.

[B]

Was just a nice way of putting it.

[A]

It was a nice way of putting it. It's just I was like oh, my God. Somebody heard that wrong.

[B]

Oh, it sounds like a terrible child blind or something.

[A]

I'm too embarrassed to tell you what I just did.

[B]

Oh, I'm gonna need to know now.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

But you don't have to.

[A]

It's just.

[B]

Oh, you don't have to. I feel like I gave.

[A]

Hold on. It's just. It's so stupid. I gave my chameleon this kind of worm that he doesn't seem to love, but I put it in there to see if he would like it. And I left. His doors are open right now because I want him to have some air.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And the worm just like went all the way to the bottom of the cage, then crawled out of the cage, fell on the floor and was walking across the carpet. And I thought, I'll just get that when I'm done. And then I thought, what if it goes somewhere and I can't find it? I'm like, let me just go get it now. Anyway, I'm just embarrassed because I have a chameleon and I'm an adult.

[B]

But no, I love that.

[A]

He's lovely. Do you still feel that way? And if not, how did you get past it?

[B]

No, I feel so much better now about it. And I did start. I did start going down the route of I think I need a therapist to really help me with this. It just felt all. So all consuming. And I did sort of have like a little, like, taster session. And she was like, this is what we'll work through, stuff like this. And I thought, oh, yeah, I think I should probably give this a go. And I was like, I'm going on holiday. I'll let you know when I'm back. And I just had like, the simplest conversation ever with my mom. And we were sort of visiting family. And again, this is another sort of sidebar tangent to the whole, like, anxiety thing. It made me really wary of hanging out with kids. And, like, I don't have kids myself, but, like, I've got a few sort of younger sort of family members. And it would get to the point where I'd be really sort of like, wary about, like, oh, don't get too close, just in case they're ill. And then they make me ill. So we'd sort of gone visiting my sister and her little girl. I was just saying to my mum, like, did you ever get really scared after what happened to us both last year? Like, is it not sort of set you back or anything? She just looked at me and she was like, no, because we're both here. And why would you let that stop you living your life? That's all it took just months ago. Won't be the worst thing that's ever happened to you, and it hasn't been the worst thing that's ever happened to you. And we're both here, and you can't let. Let that stuff stop you living your life. And it was almost like the simplest thing ever. And I just hadn't thought of it like that.

[A]

Your mom's, like, way worse crap's gonna happen. Don't worry.

[B]

I just, like, I knew what she meant. And it was like, wow. Yeah, you're right. Actually, that's all it took, really. And I think, like, I follow a few sort of people on Instagram who've got diabetes, and a few of them are posted about the same thing. And I think it was just the whole, oh, this has happened to other people, and they're fine. And, yeah, it might happen to me again. It probably will at some point in life. And my mum was like, but you know how to handle it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I was like, oh, yeah, it's just that easy. Why didn't I think of this six months ago when I was panicking all the time?

[A]

Do you have glucagon in your house?

[B]

I do, yeah. Yeah, I've got a big stash of it now.

[A]

After the vomiting, we just moved Arden into a different college situation.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And we were like. She and I left her room to go downstairs to get some more stuff to bring upstairs, and we were in the elevator by ourselves. And I was like, hey, in case I haven't said this recently, I'm just gonna say this. And she goes, okay. I said, you can give yourself glucagon. It's not just for when you're having a seizure. And I was like, but if you find yourself in a situation when you're like, oh, God, no, I'm not gonna stop this. I was like, there's. It's okay. And she was like, I know. And I was like, all right. And I just. I only brought it up because she's in a setting now where she's in a multiple room. So she's by herself in a bedroom, but in an apartment with multiple bedrooms, but everyone's doors lock when they close them.

[B]

Oh, I see. Right. Okay.

[A]

So in her last setting, like, her. Her roommates could have walked into her room if they wanted to.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. She needed help.

[A]

And she was like, okay. And I was like, all right, just don't forget that. And she's like, okay. And then that was sort of the end. Meanwhile, like, lows are very infrequent for Arden.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But still, you don't know. Right.

[B]

You know, it's just better knowing, isn't it? Just. Yeah. Just double checking.

[A]

It's never happened once when I thought, oh, I bet you Arden's going to get really low today. Like.

[B]

Yeah, you know, exactly. Yeah. It's always the. The curveball, lows, what just happened.

[A]

But. So your mom just what, he just gave you some extra perspective, you think?

[B]

Yeah, I think it was just. I think it was. I just felt very alone with it because obviously I'd speak to my friends and they could sympathize and speak to family. They could sympathize, but I just. It was almost like that feeling of pure, like, helplessness, like I'm doing everything I've been taught to do to fix low blood sugar and it's not working. And it just felt like that utter lack of control.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Was just spiraling me out and just for the fact it came and I had spoken to my mum since we were both ill, and she sort of touched on that. Yeah. No, just carry on. But it was just that moment, she was like, you can't let. You can't let this just, like, consume you. I just thought, oh, my God. Yeah, you're so right.

[A]

Good for you. Well, good for her, too. She gave you some good advice.

[B]

Definitely. It's just like I needed someone else in the same situation to say it to me. Just like, you can't put your life on hold because you're this scared.

[A]

Yeah. It. Wouldn't it be crazy if, like, three years from now you got to an episode of the podcast that said that and you're like, oh, would have found that.

[B]

To be fair, I had. I'd actually posted in the Facebook group about it, but I know it's. It's very specific niche. And again, I think I've done a bit of a waffly post because I was like, oh, I don't. Like, has anyone experienced this? And to be fair, a few people had sent me episodes to listen to just about, you know, like, fear of hypos and hypo anxiety and stuff that. That did help with the.

[A]

Just the feeling functional stuff, but not the psychological part of it.

[B]

Yeah. I think it was more just how specific the things that I needed your problem was.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To hear was. Yes.

[A]

Did you ever hear the episode called Worry is a Waste of Imagination?

[B]

Is it pre episode 650? Because if it is ion, let me Find out.

[A]

That's interesting question.

[B]

I think it might be because I've actually. That rings a bell, that title.

[A]

It just. It always occurs to me. I don't know where I heard that First Worry is a Waste of imagination is episode 156 is just. Yeah, yeah. Just the idea that when you're worried about something, you are just making up a scenario in your head and deciding to treat it like it's actually gonna happen. And now yours is a little more specific because this has happened to you in the past, but. Yeah, but sort of. I mean, it's not the same, but it is the same. And you know, so I can see that though. Get that in your head. But that's not really the crux of the problem. The crux of the problem is that. And I'm guessing just from listening to you, it's that spot where your effort won't overwhelm the problem. And there's a finite end to it because you could have a seizure and what do you do? Like. Right. Like that's. That's where the fear is. Right there. Is that right?

[B]

Yeah, yeah. 100. Yeah. It's just the lack of control, like you said. Everything you've ever been taught to fix that is not fixing it. And then the panic sets in because you're like, oh, no. This usually works. Like, oh, dear, this isn't going the way I wanted it to go, all planned.

[A]

And I don't have unlimited time here.

[B]

No, that's fine.

[A]

Yeah, right, right. You're like, there is more like, I'm going to run out of time before I get this fixed.

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Almost like it's that sense of impending. Like you sort of get an inkling of that anyway when you start having a hypo. Just sort of the doom feeling. But it's just that time a million.

[A]

Anybody who's had, like, awake, conscious, like seizures, low blood sugar incidences that they've talked about on the podcast, they all mention this moment where they. Their last thought is, up here. I can't stop.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Like, yeah, it's coming and I can't stop it. Right.

[B]

Oh, yeah, this is me clocking out. Bye.

[A]

Yeah, well, that's not imagination. That's a real worry. And, And. And I think we don't talk about that very often in the space, like in general. And I tried to bring it up periodically. I, you know, I've. You'll hear me in a couple of years tell a story about being it. About being at this event where I was speaking in front of like, probably like three, 400 people, if I remember correctly.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And a lot of them were newly diagnosed adults or. Or the spouses of those adults. And I just brought up like, hey, you know, why it's so important to have glucagon around? And when I started, people were like, why? What is that? And I'm like, wait, what? You know, and then as you explain it to them, like, you could see they were like, whoa. No one mentioned that.

[B]

Yeah. You know, that's the thing. Yeah. Because I've. I've had glucagon from the get go ever since diagnosis, but I don't touch wood. I've never had to use it. I have had two seizures before, but I've never.

[A]

How did you get out of them?

[B]

I don't know how it got fixed, actually.

[A]

Were you by yourself?

[B]

The first one? I wasn't. And my friend poured a whole bottle of full sugar lime cordial all over my face. So when I woke up upside down in my bed later on that day, I stunk of limes. And then the second time, I think I was on my own and I think. I think I knew it was. I knew it was going to happen. So this was after a night of drinking and being silly. So I drank a whole bottle and I think it just. The timing was I had a seizure and then I started coming back out of it the other side. I think I just took myself to bed and just. Yeah.

[A]

Wow. Yeah, I know. Funny. That didn't make you worried?

[B]

No, exactly. Oh, yeah.

[A]

But you're older now.

[B]

You're just so silly and carefree, aren't you? Just don't care. Yeah. Now I'm old and just worry about everything.

[A]

Yeah. When you're 17, you're like, I almost died.

[B]

Literally. Literally. Like, my sister came upstairs and she was like, what has gone on downstairs? Like, she's like, there's. There's blue cave everywhere. It's like a big stain on the rug. And I was like, yeah, no, I think. I think I might have had a seizure last night. I was like, well, fine. Now what's the breakfast?

[A]

Yeah. What are we doing now? Right. And now. And now you're like, I want to live. Right.

[B]

So literally, like, if I can stave that off, I will do. Yeah, just. It's mad, though, just the attitude shift of. Of being a very, very silly 17, 18 year old. And for now. Yeah.

[A]

Think that's just maturity or time or. Is there something that happened to you that made you think, like, I should value my Life more or.

[B]

Yeah. I think it's just the whole. And I think this is for everyone, really. Well, I don't know if everyone feels like this, but I think just. You just feel so untouchable when you're young. Like, you just think that, like, bad things happen to older people or it's older people that get ill or pass away and things like that. And I just think you just feel like you're so untouchable that you can get away with all this stuff. And then as you get a bit older.

[A]

Yeah. You're like, that's not true.

[B]

Yeah. And you just realize that it's not true. Like, you need to really look after yourself. You need to. You are in charge of yourself, and it's only. You could. That can be sort of putting that effort in and making. Making sure that you can have a long and healthy life.

[A]

Wait till you get older and you wake up injured. That. I'll tell you, I'm not kidding. Like, you wake up from being asleep and you're like, oh, I hurt myself while sleeping.

[B]

Oh, no.

[A]

That's when you realize, oh, I'm old.

[B]

You know what? I think I'll start now. Ready? I've got a recurring, like, nighttime neck injury.

[A]

Recurring nighttime neck injury.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

We had to move Arden out of an apartment very quickly. So we, like, went on this 700 mile drive, got there, like, ate food and went to sleep and then got up, like, at 5 in the morning, packed the car, and then drove 700 miles home again. Right.

[B]

Oh, no.

[A]

But it was horrifying. But the. The part of it that is relevant to this is that we got there and I realized she had brought a friend with her.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, she had a bed that she could sleep in, but her friend needed a place to sleep, too.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

And then there was no other furniture because she hadn't fully moved into this space yet. So I just. I'm like, this will sound pejorative to some people, but I think it's just accurate. She's a girl, so she has a lot of pillows. So I said, let's just lay these pillows out in the shape of a mattress, and I'll tuck a sheet around them to hold them kind of tight. And I'll lay. I'll sleep on the floor. It's like, no big deal. And they're like, no, no, no, no. And I'm like, well, where do you. Like, this is it. Like, I'm not going to make you guys. Holy Christ. For a week. My neck.

[B]

I'm not surprised. You always look at, like, a makeshift bed like that and you think, that'll be fine. Then you sort of get on it and you're like, oh, no, I'm not sleeping tonight at all.

[A]

Listen, this is just for one person. But the editor, the guy who edits the show, he just went on like this, like, bike ride where he. He camped out in this, like, small tent that he. And I texted him. I'm like, are you all right? I think. Did you sleep in that?

[B]

Yes. A choice. He chose this.

[A]

I said to him too. I was like, you're old, you know, you got to be careful.

[B]

Oh, yeah, no, my camping days are behind me 100%.

[A]

So let me ask you. So then this last bit here that I was going to ask you about is like, fear of judgment. Are you being judged or you're afraid you're being judged and judged about what?

[B]

No, I guess it was. This is sort of from when I first got diagnosed. It was again, thought the thing of not accepting it properly and outwardly. You could ask some of my friends and they'd have forgotten I've got diabetes because I just hide it. And it'd be things like we'd sort of be sat in the school cafeteria and everyone's got the lunch and I would literally, sometimes I'd get my insulin pen out through an injection and people like, oh, you're doing that here. Like, what. What's all that about? What are you doing? And I just got into this sort of mentality of, I'll take myself off to the toilet, I'll do mince on the toilet, away from everyone. And it was sort of. It became a pattern then of me just, like, worrying that other people are going to be looking and I suppose judging me. I don't know what they'd be judging me for, but just sort of like. It just felt very like all eyes were on me every time and probably no one was looking at me, but I just had this feeling of pull my insulin pan out, everyone's looking at me, everyone's looking at the needle, everyone's whispering, everyone's wondering what I'm doing. So I did. I did have that a lot. Sort of coming out of my teenage years, early 20s, where again, I just. Just secretly inject. I'd secretly test my blood sugars or I would ignore it because I didn't want people seeing me using all my equipment.

[A]

So it was kind of self imposed. You just were.

[B]

Oh, yeah, fully, yeah. Just a narrative in my head that, yeah, I just created. And again, I think it was just trying to feel a bit like, normal. I don't know if normal is the right word, but just like, everyone else.

[A]

Really just didn't want people looking at you.

[B]

Yeah, I. I hate attention. I hate attention. So I was like, if one person looks at me, if that's it, game over, I'm gonna be in the toilets eating my lunch, basically. But, yeah, it was just. Yeah, it was. It was something I had created in my head, this narrative that, oh, people are judging you, but really they weren't. They probably won't ask me questions about it and be interested in it, but I just hid it from everyone. Like, hid it. Didn't hide it from my friends, but just. I wouldn't give too much away about it, really.

[A]

Okay. And now you don't feel that way any longer?

[B]

Oh, no. I will make eye contact with someone on the bus and inject them dead in the eye.

[A]

It's happening. Watch me do it.

[B]

Yeah. Literally, if I see you looking, I will hold the eye contact until you look away. Yes. I'm just. I'm not phased about stuff like that at all anymore.

[A]

Good.

[B]

And I've got my Libra as well, so more than happy having that out and about. I love it when people come up to me and ask me about it. Like, I went on holiday to Vegas last week and I was literally, like, nudging my boyfriend, like, oh, the snacks come over there. There's no Omnipod over there. And I'm like, oh. And just having, like, really nice chats for people that are just spot you center. And you'd be like, oh, you too. And then you'd have just like, a really nice conversation. I just. Yeah, I love showing it off, basically now, like, just. And then spotting, like, diabetics in the wild and going. Speaking to them.

[A]

I just saw in that post we talked about earlier today.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This person said, I was just on a flight. I met two men, both had type one. This person has, like, a child with type one. They said that we had the best conversation, but then you came up, and I was like, oh, I came up.

[B]

Oh, finally.

[A]

Finally, the conversation's gone the way it should. But they talked for a while. They all knew the podcast. Like, three strangers on an airplane. I was like, that's lovely.

[B]

It is that sense of community, though, because, like I said, I went to Vegas last week and I did a post in your Facebook group. Just sort of being like, I've never been to America before. What should I be wary of? Like, what are good snacks? I basically Wanted to immerse myself in going full American. I was like, what a really good low snacks I can go and buy loads of. And it actually made me a bit emotional because it was just the outpouring of people being so helpful, but just wishing me to have, like, the best holiday and check out these amazing recommendations. And I ended saving loads on my phone. I just thought how nice that people take, like. Like five minutes out the day to just be so helpful and want to help. And I was like. I was just telling my boyfriend about. I was like, it just. It just feels like such nice space where everyone's got each other's back and everyone's just so willing to help.

[A]

It's a mass example of this experience you had with your mom, honestly.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You just like, oh, I. I understand their situation now and then you can just have more space for it or, you know, because it's not that you're not empathetic for other people in general, but, like, you just really don't know the depth of it until. And every person that saw that thought, I know how this girl feels. Like she's gonna get on a plane and fly to a completely different place. And she has diabetes. Yeah.

[B]

It was just really nice because everyone was just like, oh, go. Here, try this. You'll have the best time. Have a great holiday. And I just thought, oh, like, just all these strangers just being so lovely. It was just really. I just warmed my heart.

[A]

Beautiful. All right, we're gonna stop there. I might call this episode Slap Bang. I don't know.

[B]

Well, yeah, you should, because the bus.

[A]

Came up a lot, by the way.

[B]

Yeah. I didn't learn to drive until three years ago. That's probably why.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

I've been in a lot of buses in my time. Yeah.

[A]

I mean, have you ever seen a shrunken head driving the bus or. That doesn't really happen, right?

[B]

No, unfortunately not. Not in real life.

[A]

Okay, if you say so.

[B]

Still holding out hope, though, one day. Yeah.

[A]

What do you. Let me ask you before you. Before I let you go, like, what, you're coming here? What are you coming for? Just, like, holiday or for something specific?

[B]

We actually came for a wedding. Yeah, holiday slash wedding.

[A]

Oh, nice. Oh, did you have a good time? Did you find us to be horrible? What was your situation?

[B]

No, it's amazing. I loved it. It was. It was just crazy. It felt like a bit of a fever dream. Vegas, just like. I couldn't quite grasp that it was real life, but. Oh, it was. It was such a good holiday. It was unreal.

[A]

Yeah. I've never been there, but New York has that same feeling when you stand in the middle of Manhattan. Have you been to New York ever?

[B]

No, we haven't. No. I think that's. That's the next one when we venture back over to America. Yeah.

[A]

Kind of open up your field of vision and you're like, is this all really here? Like, who put this here?

[B]

You know, there's just stuff going on all the time. I loved it. Yeah. So. God. Good.

[A]

Excellent. All right, Well, I appreciate this very much. Thank you for doing this with me. Can you hold on one second for me?

[B]

Yeah, I'll call.

[A]

Thank you. Thanks for tuning in today and thanks to Medtronic Diabetes for sponsoring this episode. We've been Talking about Medtronic's MiniMed 780G system today, an automated insulin delivery system that helps make diabetes diabetes management easier day and night. Whether it's their meal detection technology or the Medtronic extended infusion set, it all comes together to simplify life with diabetes. Go find out more at my link medtronicdiabetes.com juicebox A huge thanks to US MED for sponsoring this episode of the Juice box podcast. Don't forget usmed.com juicebox this is where we get our diabetes supplies from. You can as well use the Link or call 888-721-1514. Use the link or call the number, get your free benefits check so that you can start getting your diabetes supplies the way we do from usmed. Hey, thanks for listening all the way to the end. I really appreciate your loyalty and listenership. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of the Juice Box Podcast. Are you starting to see patterns but you can't quite make sense of them? You're like, oh, if I bolus here, this happens, but I don't know what to do. Should I put in a little less, a little more? If you're starting to have those thoughts, if you're starting to think this isn't going the way the doctor said it would, I think I see something here, but I can't be sure. Once you're having those thoughts, you're ready for the Diabetes Pro tip series from the Juice Box Podcast. It begins at episode 1000. You can also find [e-mail] up in the menu and you can find a list in the private Facebook group. Just check right under the featured tab at the top. It'll show you lists of a ton of stuff, including the Pro Tip series, which is which runs from episode 1000 to 1025. The episode you just heard was professionally edited by wrong way recording wrongwayrecording.com.