A (2:50)

Yeah. Yeah.

B (2:51)

But the fact of the matter is their glycemic impact is going to be much lower when they are not as ripe. And the reason is because the sugars are not as developed. It's the easiest way to describe it. So the carbohydrate content isn't changing, but how quick your body can digest the carbohydrates, the sugars, and changes as the fruit becomes more and more ripe. It's also the reason, similar to other really ripe foods, meaning when we're going to eat them, your tropical fruits, your melons, we eat them at peak ripeness because that's when we have the most sugar flavor.

A (3:33)

Yeah.

B (3:34)

So if you're going to eat a banana, like I like. If I eat a banana, I like a banana to taste like a banana.

A (3:39)

So I think that when they're not ripe enough, how do they feel? To me, like they're powdery. Does that make sense? It feels like there's a. All right, this is going to be a weird thing for me.

B (3:47)

I love this kind of conversation.

A (3:49)

Okay, okay.

B (3:50)

Because you're like a mouthfeel kind of person, too.

A (3:53)

They feel like they're coated in powder or something. Like, that's the. I get, like an icky feeling when I bite into one that's not ripe enough at the perfect ripeness. And to me, that's. It's still solid, but a little soft and not squishy. And there's no brown. Like, that's the perfect spot for a banana. For me, I could probably eat, like three of them if. Because they're. They're so tasty there. Is that your sweet spot for a banana, too? No pun intended.

B (4:16)

It is. They're not squishy yet.

A (4:18)

Right.

B (4:18)

You would not make banana bread out of them. Those usually have lots of brown dots.

A (4:24)

Yes.

B (4:24)

They are yellow. And you can't. I don't know if you've ever done this. People are gonna be like, jenny is just weird. But I can smell the difference.

A (4:34)

Oh, sure.

B (4:35)

I can smell the skin, even if it's turned to the color that I think it should be to have the taste that I want. I can smell it and be like, nope, another day. Like, I know this will be good tomorrow.

A (4:47)

Does that mean that in practice and theory, there are three different kinds of impacts you might get from a banana? Like the ripe impact, the just right impact, and the squishy impact.

B (4:57)

Yes.

A (4:57)

Jeez. So you know what it makes me think of? You know when people say, you know what I hate about diabetes? Do the same thing over and over every day and it comes out differently and blah, blah, blah. But if you're just having a banana every day as they get riper and riper, you are not doing the same thing over and over every day.

B (5:12)

Correct.

A (5:12)

Interesting. Okay.

B (5:14)

Whereas other fruits, you know, things like apples, which tend to be lower glycemic in terms of the whole scheme of fruits, our berries tend to be fairly low glycemic. Kiwi, interestingly, tends to be lower glycemic. Pears that are a little bit more crisp, crunchy, like an apple, tend to be lower glycemic. Most of the fruits that you're gonna eat at that place where they taste the best to you, they're gonna be a higher impact.

A (5:39)

You're making me think I'm gonna make banana bread next time I see the bananas get a little soft too. I done that in a while. So. Okay, so if you're going to, if you're a person who likes a greener, less ripe banana, it's going to take less pre bolus time.

B (5:53)

Right.

A (5:53)

Significantly or just less.

B (5:56)

Less by, let's say you're a typical 20 minute pre bolus person for a ripe banana, for a non ripe banana, kind of greenish, yet you're probably looking at five to 10 minutes, honestly.

A (6:11)

And then to swap on the other side of that middle line, if you're a squishy banana lover, it's going to hit you right away. Right. You saw the face she just made, like, oh, please don't eat them when they're like that. Listen, I'm with you. Like there's a moment they get a little too soft and I was like, I can't do this anymore.

B (6:26)

They go in my freezer then.

A (6:27)

Oh, that's a good idea.

B (6:29)

Yeah, I put them in the freezer. I've got like a banana bag that I put them in in the freezer. And then they either become, we chop them up for smoothies or we make banana ice cream.

A (6:38)

Yeah.

B (6:39)

Which is super fun. Or you can make banana bread out of.

A (6:43)

I thought you were gonna say banana hammock. And I was like, wait, don't do that. Here's one for you. When they get too soft, I use them to. Oh my God. I use a little piece of a soft banana in the cages with my reptiles. Because if fruit flies get in there, they congregate there. Then the animals can go over and like pick them off real easily. Oh, that's cool.

B (7:04)

See, it's a good use.

A (7:05)

It's still functional.

B (7:07)

Yeah. Cool.

A (7:08)

Yeah, it's not that cool. It's bizarre. So regular ripeness in the middle. 20 minutes.

B (7:15)

I would say 20 minutes, honestly. And maybe first thing in the morning, if you're a. I have to have my banana first thing every single morning, you might be looking at longer.

A (7:25)

Is a banana one of those things in the morning that, like, if you're doing the. Like, I'm gonna bolus while I'm getting ready, I can time it so that I hit the kitchen, scarf down that banana as I'm going out the door, and it'll just grab the fall of the insulin and hold me there. Yeah, yeah. Okay. I know it takes a lot to think about it, but this is a great example of, like, timing an amount.

B (7:44)

Here it is.

A (7:45)

You know, and understanding the impact of your food. Now, the real super squishy ones, that's like liquid sugar almost. When it gets in your mouth, like, it hits you real, real quick.

B (7:53)

It's gonna hit you really fast.

A (7:55)

Okay.

B (7:55)

I mean, it's one of the things I really like for lower blood sugars. Cause it does work really fast, at least for me, are the unsweetened banana chips, like the dehydrated banana, because they work fast. And usually those are, you know, at a point where they're really easy to slice. And then they dehydrate them and whatever they do to them, but quick.

A (8:19)

If Arden gets low overnight, she has two different kinds of lows. Like, there's a low where you're like, hey, I just need something quick to fix this. And there's a low where she says, I feel like this is because I'm hungry. I don't know, like, if that makes sense. I don't think there's anything in my stomach like, I need to eat something now. Even at, like, three in the morning when that happens, she always asks for a banana.

B (8:40)

Oh, that's interesting.

A (8:41)

Yeah, because it fixes the low, and it makes her feel fuller, and then she's good. She doesn't always want food when she's low. Like, she doesn't always want a full feeling when she's low. Sometimes she just wants the number to get fixed.

B (8:52)

Right. Which would be juice. Because juice doesn't really make you have a fullness.

A (8:57)

Yeah, just bang, bang. That's nice and easy. But when she also feels hungry at that time, it's always a banana she asks for. Like, always. Oh, okay. So, I mean, obviously we're gonna need to look down the road and see what happened afterwards, because I think a lot of people are gonna get a spike when they're first trying to figure this out.

B (9:13)

Right.

A (9:14)

If you bolus for it just right on the pre bolus and you had the timing and the amount was all settled. Is a banana really a thing you have to look at later? There's not gonna be any, like, late rise. No.

B (9:24)

There's not gonna be lingering. It's gonna be a true what insulin was formulated to cover, which is carbohydrate.

A (9:31)

Yeah. In and out.

B (9:32)

Right. And in and out. Yeah.

A (9:34)

So banana and simple sugars in general are about, like, quelling the spike before they happen, so it doesn't happen. And then just using enough insulin so that it doesn't create a low later, but you shouldn't see a high from it. If you stop the high from ever happening. Does that make sense?

B (9:49)

Because of the right pre bolus.

A (9:50)

Because of the right pre bolus. Okay. All right. So, I mean, so still look, you know, afterwards and see, you know, how my making out. But that's going to be to fix your pre bolus for it next time. Not really about anything else.

B (10:02)

Correct.

A (10:02)

Awesome. All right, well, I'm glad I picked something you were so happy about. I said, jenny, like, we have a little bit of time left. Do you want to do bananas? She lit right up. Can I tell people you said, sure. I was just talking about bananas with somebody else today. And if you don't want advice from a person who is already talking about bananas even when they're not being recorded about it, then I think you're crazy. That Jenny is definitely the one. Yeah. Thank you very much.

B (10:26)

Thank you.

A (10:26)

That was funny. In each episode of the Bolas 4 series, Jenny Smith and I are going to pick one food and talk through the bolusing for that food. We hope you find it valuable. Generally speaking, we're going to follow a bit of a formula, the meal bolt formula. M, E, A, L, B, O, L, T. You can learn more about it@juiceboxpodcast.com forward slash meal bolt. But here's what it is. Step one. M, measure the meal. E, evaluate yourself A, add the base units. L, layer A, correction B, build the bolus shape O, offset the timing. L, look at the CGM&T tweak for next time. In a nutshell, we measure our meal. Total carbohydrates, protein, fat. Consider the glycemic index and the glycemic load. And then we evaluate yourself. What's your current blood sugar, how much insulin's on board, and what kind of activity are you going to be involved in or not involved in? Do you have any stress hormones, illness, what's going on with you? Then a we add the base units, your carbs divided by insulin to carb ratio. Just a simple bolus. L layer a correction, right? Do you have to add or subtract insulin based on your current blood sugar? Build the bolus shape. Are we going to give it all up front 100% for a fast digesting meal or is there going to be like a combo or a square wave bolus? Does it have to be extended? Offset the timing. This is about pre bolusing. Does it take a couple of minutes this meal or maybe 20 minutes? Are we going to have to again consider combo, square wave boluses and meals? Figure out the timing of that meal and then l look at the cgm. An hour later, was there a fast spike? Three hours later, was there a delayed rise? Five hours later, is there any lingering effect from fat and protein? Tweak, tweak for next time. T what did you eat? How much insulin and when? What did your blood sugar curve look like? What would you do next time? This is what we're going to talk about in every episode of Bolus 4. Measure the meal, evaluate yourself, add the base units, layer a correction, build the bolus shape, offset the timing, look at the cgm, tweak for next time. But it's not going to be that confusing and we're not going to ask you to remember all of that stuff. But that's the pathway that Jenny and I are going to use to speak about each bolus.

B (13:10)

Foreign.

A (13:14)

Hey, thanks for listening all the way to the end. I really appreciate your loyalty and listenership. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back very soon with another episode of the Juice Box Podcast. The episode you just heard was professionally edited by Wrong Way Recording wrongway recording dot com.