A (3:41)

Yeah, I can't. I can't figure out. It just doesn't hit as fast or hard. For Arden. Exactly. I'm going to look at the. And for people who understand this better than I do. Durum wheat. So Moline. Yeah. And then it has something in it called inulin, which I know that is. No, I hope you do.

B (4:01)

I do. Inulin is actually a. It's in a lot of products that have a high fiber content. It's an easy to add inexpensive fiber source. It comes from chicory root. In fact, you might actually see chicory root sometimes on a label.

A (4:15)

Okay.

B (4:16)

Instead of inulin. But essentially it's just a fiber source.

A (4:19)

I wonder if we're going to find out the fiber is what helps it. Wheat gluten, xanthine gum, wheat protein isolate, pectin, potassium chloride, niacin, iron, thiamine monotrate. Is that right? Riboflavin and folic acid.

B (4:38)

These are all vitamins.

A (4:39)

Okay. And folic acid. Wow. It's nice of them to put vitamins in our. In our pasta.

B (4:43)

We've added them back.

A (4:45)

They put Jenny's like, yeah. They strip it all out, then they dump it back in again. You've heard me complain about this already.

B (4:50)

So just gotta be truthful.

A (4:51)

Here's the thing that I find most difficult about pasta. It's 2 ounces of pasta, dry.

B (4:59)

Do you know how many grams that.

A (5:00)

Is while I'm looking at it? So it's unfair to me, but 56 grams.

B (5:04)

56 grams. That's the weight. And I think it's important place because it's the most common one that I hear people say, well, it told me that it was 56 grams. Said, no, no, that's the weight of the uncooked product. So pastas and rices specifically, or many grains. In fact, the serving size is listed as a dry weight. 2 ounces dry, or 56 grams if you are weighing in grams like many. Much of Europe does in Canada and whatnot. But that's not how many grams of carb are in the product.

A (5:37)

Also, by the way, I don't measure it dry when I'm putting it on their plate. That's my point is it's not easy to like.

B (5:45)

No.

A (5:45)

Figure out. Like, do you cook it off on the side to make sure you have it? Maybe in another pot. But this is an interesting thing here. It says a half inch circle because I, I pick spaghetti noodles. So a half inch circle is about 56 grams. About 2 ounces. That's gonna contain 42 carbs, 5 dietary fiber, 4 soluble fiber, 1 insoluble fiber, 2 total sugars.

B (6:09)

We talked about fibers before. Do you remember soluble versus insoluble?

A (6:14)

I mean, one sounds like it's gonna melt and one sounds like it's not going to, but I don't know what that means.

B (6:19)

Yeah, so some packages like this will have the total fiber broken down as soluble and insoluble. Soluble fiber is the kind that actually eventually will hit your bloodstream, but it does slow down the carbohydrates. So you have a much, a much more stable effect of this food.

A (6:39)

Okay.

B (6:40)

Insoluble fiber is the kind that's more. I guess, describe it. Like roughage, right? It moves everything through and gets removed when you go to the bathroom, but it does not turn into glucose. And so you don't have to count insoluble fiber. Now, not all labels turn tell you the total fiber breakdown. And so when dietary fiber is more than about 5 grams, you can assume that about 50, 50, 50% soluble, 50% insoluble. The insoluble 50% is what you're going to deduct from the total carb to bolus for your insulin. So in this case, Dreamfields broke it down. Nice. They gave you the soluble and the insoluble. Insoluble is only one, really. Only one gram should come off of that 42 gram.

A (7:24)

Okay, there's a little more fiber. I just jumped to another one like a popular and Barilla just to see if it would be. It's. I gotta tell you, like, visually, it looks exactly the same. You know, I mean, there's more things in the dream field. Whereas the Barilla is literally the semolina. Wheat flour. Durum wheat flour. That's it. And then they added minerals and vitamins, but they're all very similar.

B (7:47)

And the slow factor from the dream fields is the inulin. And I think you said that there's a wheat gluten. Right. And then there's a protein something. You said protein something.

A (7:57)

Protein isolate.

B (7:58)

Protein isolate.

A (7:59)

Protein isolate.

B (8:01)

So those are the pieces that are slowing the dream fields down comparative to the Barilla pasta.

A (8:07)

That's interesting. So that's it. Those things are what makes the dream fields not hit Arden. I had to buy so many different pastas to figure. It would have been really helpful if I just knew what inulin was. I think that probably.

B (8:18)

There you go.

A (8:19)

Would have been quicker. Now, you all know that you're listening, so that's awesome. Okay, now we're gonna put sauce on it. So if you use the dream fields versus the Barilla, the Barilla, even though the. The ingredients are almost exactly the same, aside from what we just met, the basic ingredients are the same, the carb counts are the same. It's still gonna hit faster and probably longer than the dream fields would, like a higher blood sugar. So Barilla is gonna need more of a pre bolus. Probably an extended bolus. I've never had to use an extended bolus with the dream fields, though.

B (8:55)

Give a bolus. Do you do less pre bolus for the dream fields?

A (8:58)

We don't measure our food well, so.

B (9:03)

I know that.

A (9:04)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So when, like, I don't know how much, like, Arden puts an amount of pasta in a bowl or on a plate that, like, she's hungry.

B (9:11)

It's just her average. So you've figured it out.

A (9:14)

Yeah. Then she rolls up with her. Her average bolus, hits it, and then you hit it again if it looks like you weren't heavy enough. But it's hard to. I mean, I don't know. Unless you don't eat. It's kind of hard to over bolus for pasta because it hits pretty hard.

B (9:28)

And the lower. I think some of the ingredients that you're mentioning, like the durum wheat or the durum semolina wheat, tend to be lower glycemic index than other types of pastas made from, you know, other types of wheat. Pasta in general is considered low glycemic, but that's also if you cook it the way that it says on the package, to cook it al dente. And really, that means that it should have a bit of chewability to it. It should not be soft, and you shouldn't be able to squish it. And it gets Flat and gross and mushy with your fork, it should have some need to chew and that also then slows down the glycemic impact that it's going to have. So there are lots of things that go into these foods that having the degree that I do and having had to do, like food science, I understand at a little bit deeper level.

A (10:19)

Yeah.

B (10:20)

But I think it's the big consideration when we have something as a medical condition that's so impacted by food, we end up needing to become schooled in so many different things. But in general, you know, your barilla pasta, compared to your dream fields, the barilla is going to have a quicker hit because it doesn't have the ink ingredients of the dream fields. There are other products like the dream fields, some of the chickpea pastas now or the lentil based pastas. You know, there's another brand called Kaizen that's a lupini bean based pasta. Tastes, cooks nicely, but has a very low glycemic index comparative to regular wheat based pastas. So even those, if you're playing with them, you really have to do experiments with each kind of. Because they may impact a bit differently and your strategy might need to be different.

A (11:15)

Okay, before we finish this.

B (11:17)

Yes.

A (11:19)

Because I'm going to jump to. Let me just jump to something very quickly like and please don't no one be upset with me. I just picked a very basic premade jarred pasta sauce. I got to tell you, this isn't the one I would use, but it's okay. Ragu with meat sauce.

B (11:35)

There you go. It's probably one that many, many, many, many people.

A (11:38)

I'm assuming around the country. It's available in a lot of places. Right. So a serving size for that is. Let's see, there's five servings per container, but it's a 23 ounce container. Each serving is a half a cup. 70 calories, total fat, 1 1/2 saturated, non trans, non cholesterol, non sodium, 490 milligrams total carbs. This doesn't make much sense to me, but 12 grams of carbs, dietary fiber 2, total sugar, 7, no added sugar. So I guess that's just the sugar from the tomatoes.

B (12:11)

I don't know. You'd have to look in the ingredient.

A (12:14)

List to actually see tomato puree, water, tomato paste, beef salt. Wait, beef comma salt. Thank God. Because I was like, I don't know what beef salt is. Beef comma salt, soybean oil, sugar, dried onions, dried garlic, spices, citric acid.

B (12:31)

See sugar Sugar?

A (12:32)

Yeah.

B (12:32)

Sugar?

A (12:33)

Yeah. It literally just says sugar. They didn't even dress it up at all. They're just like. No, we put sugar.

B (12:38)

Sugar in acidic foods. Like, again, it's from a preservative standpoint. Sugar in acidic foods also helps to moderate flavor. It helps with, like, a preservative component to it. Pasta sauces like this marinara sauce eaten alone are likely going to have a faster impact than you would expect. In fact, pasta sauces tend to have a higher glycemic than the actual pasta you put it on.

A (13:04)

There's no way that most people look at a red sauce and are counting carbs for it.

B (13:09)

Most correct? 100% correct.

A (13:12)

Yeah, I just don't think so. I mean, maybe the creamy white sauce. Well, that's fatty, but that's what.

B (13:17)

It's fatty. But it could also be made like gravy is made with flour, and most people don't count that.

A (13:23)

Isn't that something? Yeah. Okay. So anyway, keep in mind, you're gonna put sauce on it. The meat's gonna slow down your digestion. I mean. Oh, that's interesting.

B (13:31)

By the way, there's beef in.

A (13:33)

Just says beef. Boy, I wonder what that means. But that's upsetting to me because I'm thinking that means cow toes or something like that.

B (13:46)

Oh, no.

A (13:47)

Oh, my God.

B (13:48)

I don't know. I don't want to know.

A (13:50)

I have no idea. I just. Please no one tell me.

B (13:53)

No, I don't know. For people who are wondering, there are a couple of pretty popular brands of no sugar added or very low sugar marinara sauces. The most common one I hear is rows or raise. I don't know. I think it's rows. It's R, A, O, apostrophe S. Okay. That one is low carb. If people also had the time and were willing within cooking and you have a food processor or a hand blender or anything. Marinara sauce is so easy to make. And it's a great way that you can hide vegetables in a sauce that kids tend to like anyway and blend it up.

A (14:32)

I do that to myself when I.

B (14:33)

Make red sauce, right.

A (14:35)

Because I don't like onions. But I'll puree, like, a whole onion, put it in there for it. That's easy. And I sneak mushrooms in for people who.

B (14:45)

Garlic, yuck. All the kinds of. You can sneak carrots in. There are a whole bunch of things that you can sneak in that nobody knows once it's all pureed and saucy.

A (14:54)

And you don't have to put Sugar in it afterwards.

B (14:56)

Correct.

A (14:56)

You're making me think back to when my mom used to make pizza. I'm making finger quotes because it was terrible, but God bless her, she was trying. But I remember her putting sugar into the sauce when she made the sauce. And then later when I tried it as an adult, I found myself thinking one day, but that doesn't seem right. And then I realized that no respectable pizza maker puts sugar in their sauce. Like, there's no sugar in pizza sauce.

B (15:19)

But it tasted good. From Mom. Mom was trying.

A (15:22)

Sure it did. Boy, they made me fat on purpose. It feels like. Here's the thing I wanted to bring up before we're done with pasta. I remember the first time I saw this argument online where somebody was like, you know, all you have to do is cook your pasta, refrigerate it, then reheat it, and it doesn't hit the same way. Then I watch people go like, you're out of your mind, and then blah, blah, and they went back and forth. Then I looked into it, and that's actually true.

B (15:45)

It is true. It actually creates resistant starch. Does it with potatoes. You can do it with rice.

A (15:50)

Yep. Yeah. So reheated. I'm going to let Chachi PT tell us. Okay. The reason cooking and then refrigerating pasta lowers its glycemic impact has to do with resistant starch formation. Number one, starch structure and digestion. This is going to break Jenny's heart because she probably had to go to college to learn this. Pasta and other starchy foods is made up of two main starch molecules, amylose and amoleptin. Okay. When pasta is freshly cooked, the starch molecules are in gelatinized, more open form, making them easy for digestive enzymes to break down into glucose. This leads to a higher glycemic response, which is a faster rise in your blood sugar. So the cooling effect, which is called retrogradiation. When cooked pasta is cooled in the refrigerator, the starch molecules undergo a process called retrogradiation. During this, the gelatinized starch chains recrystallize into a more compact structure. The transformation creates resistant starch, a form of starch that resists digestion in a small intestine. Resistant starch and blood sugar. Because resistant starch isn't broken down into glucose in the small intestine, it behaves more like fiber. It passes into the large intestine, where it feeds beneficial gut bacteria instead of spiking blood sugar. The result is a lower glycemic impact. Blood glucose rises more Slowly and steadily after eating cooled pasta compared to freshly cooked pasta. Interestingly, if you reheat the refrigerated pasta, much of the resistant starch remains intact. There you go. Cook your pasta in your potatoes, put it in the refrigerator, pull it out the next day, heat it back up. It's not going to hit the same.

B (17:30)

Way, which is also a really good way to. Again, if you're doing any type of food prep, you've got a busy week. It's a fairly easy thing to cook a bunch of things all at one time, like this. You can cook your rice, you can cook your potatoes, you can cook your pasta all at one time. Put them away in the fridge. And you've got things ready for the coming week. And they're also going to hit your blood sugar less.

A (17:52)

There you go. And now, guys, Jenny and I are going to say goodbye, but she's going to get to see the puppy. Should we let you do that while we're recording still? Friday, Friday, come here, buddy. Friday, Friday, come here. You haven't seen him in a while, huh?

B (18:05)

No, I have not.

A (18:06)

You want to come see Jenny? All right, hold on a second. Let me get there.

B (18:13)

Oh, my goodness. He's so cute. Hi, Friday. He probably can't hear me. He's like, hi.

A (18:19)

One second. Now. He can hear. He can hear you now.

B (18:22)

How old is he? Hi, Friday.

A (18:24)

He was. Hi. He was. He was born on election day, so.

B (18:29)

Oh, my God.

A (18:29)

So in November, he'll be a year.

B (18:31)

How is he? He's not fully grown yet. Or is he?

A (18:35)

I don't know. He feels pretty fat while I'm holding him here. No, he's actually really lean. He's good. I don't think he's. I don't know that he's fully grown, but he's gotta be close at this point. His color. He's so pretty. Aren't you?

B (18:46)

He's pretty. Like, chill for still being under a year old only.

A (18:51)

Cause I've trapped him in this room and he realized he can't get out. The reason he's up here is, like I said, Cause there's a guy painting downstairs and he would just be up this guy's butt.

B (19:00)

He would be so upset. He'd say, can you pick me up? I'm really cute. Look at my ears.

A (19:04)

He would be aggressively cute the entire time he was down there. Instead, he's been laying under my feet the whole time. So. Yeah.

B (19:11)

Anyway, he's been quiet. Thank you.

A (19:12)

He was awesome. Yes, I will thank him for you. All right. Hold on one second for me. Awesome. I appreciate you doing this. Yeah. In each episode of the Bolas 4 series, Jenny Smith and I are going to pick one food and talk through the bolusing for that food. We hope you find it valuable. Generally speaking, we're going to follow a bit of a formula, the meal bolt formula. Me, A, L, B, O, L, T. You can learn more about it@juicebox podcast.com forward slash, meal dash bolt. But here's what it is. Step one. M, measure the meal. E, evaluate yourself. A, add the base units, L, layer a, correction B, build the bolus shape. O, offset the timing. L, look at the CGM and T, tweak for next time. In a nutshell, we measure our meal. Total carbohydrates, protein, fat, consider the glycemic index and the glycemic load. And then we evaluate yourself. What's your current blood sugar, how much insulin is on board, and what, what kind of activity are you going to be involved in or not involved in? You have any stress, hormones, illness, what's going on with you? Then A, we add the base units, your carbs divided by insulin to carb ratio. Just a simple bolus. L layer of correction, right? Do you have to add or subtract insulin based on your current blood sugar? Build the bolus shape. Are we going to give it all up front 100% a fast digesting meal or is there going to be like a combo or a square wave bolus? Does it have to be extended? Offset the timing. This is about pre bolusing. Does it take a couple of minutes this meal or maybe 20 minutes? Are we going to have to again consider combo, square wave boluses and meals, Figure out the timing of that meal and then L, look at the cgm. An hour later, was there a fast spike? Three hours later, was there a delayed rise? Five hours later, is there any lingering effect from fat and protein? Tweak, tweak for next time. T, what did you eat? How much insulin and when? What did your blood sugar curve look like? What would you do next time? This is what we're going to talk about in every episode of Bolus 4. Measure the meal, evaluate yourself, add the base units, layer a correction, build the bolus shape, offset the timing, look at the cgm, tweak for next time. But it's not going to be that confusing and we're not going to ask you to remember all of that stuff. But that's the pathway that Jenny and I are going to use to speak about each bolus. The Juice Box podcast is edited by wrong way recording wrongwayrecording.com if you'd like your podcast to sound as good as mine, check out rob@wrongwayrecording.com.